Proof JP is a BIG part of the Problem, and why "rebuilding" is crap

[patmoran2006]

For a perfect example of the SIGNIFICANCE of having your quarterback be your LEADER and why the term "rebuilding" is a sellout for flat out having a crap team, you need to look no farther then in our very own division and the New York Jets.

The Jets were 4-12 last year, a worse record than the Bills.. The Jets have a first-year head coach, who also happens to be a rookie at the position. The Jets lost three of their best players from last season, two Pro Bowlers on defense in John Abraham and Ty Law, and a future Hall of Fame running back in Curtis Martin. One could easily argue that the only star remaining from last year, especially on defense, is Vilma.

The Jets are also starting not one but TWO ROOKIES on the offensive line. And they have a quarterback who physically can't even compare to JP Losman. His arm isnt nearly as strong. His mobility isn't in the same league.

Yet a funny thing, the Jets are suddenly at worst-respectable. They're 4-3 and very much in the thick of the playoff hunt. They are beating ALL the teams they are "supposed to beat" (and when your 4-12 you dont get many of those games). The Jets lost a game they SHOULD have won against Indy and then got blown out by the Jags, 41-0 but rather than go in the tank like we have, responded with back to back to victories.

The biggest reason? Because they have someone at quarterback who's a leader and who the team beleives in. Pennington's stats arent' great, but he's opportunistic and he doesnt turn the ball over at the WORST times. Everybody on that roster believes in him and he's a leader.. He doesn't sit and sulk after a bad pass or drive. He doesnt use movies as examples of how he can hold on to the ball better, he doesnt recite YOda quotes. If you consider Evans and Coles a wash, he has LESS to work with in terms of receivers and backs than Losman does.. and again, the Jets OL MAY be great in years to come, but he has TWO ROOKIES starting already.

The difference between Pennington and Losman are LIGHT years.. Pennington knows how to run an offense and has a clue of what being the leader of a team is all about. Losman is simply clueless, and frankly, he has a loser "woe is me" mentality on Sundays, despite what he says to the press during the week.

Thats why the Jets have already equaled last year's win total through only seven games.. And that's why the Bills will be LUCKY to equal last year's win total through 16 games. Rebuilding is a bull**** word to make excuses.

It's all about the Quarterback.

[kernowboy]

oh that is naughty.

Pennington is in his 6th year, Losman in his 3rd year even if you want to count the broken leg season.

I think Pennington came from a pro-style offense in college.

Pennington's injuries have been advantageous to him in terms of changing his style and approach. Because his physical limitations have been curtailed, he has actually had to adapt the way he plays not have others try to adapt the way he plays. It is much easier to do that. When I played Rugby a broken shoulder necessitated a major change to the way I played the game. It was much easier for me to adapt because I physically knew I had to than the coaches trying to change the way I played. And Rugby makes American Football look like a girls game.

At no4 and no29 the bleating about rookie OL players in disingenuous. Gandy and others are making rookie mistakes after years of experience. Between Ferguson and Mangold is Pete Kendall who if not a great OG of the last few years is not far from one and was an original No1 himself.

So Pennington is being protected by 3 Round 1 Offensive Lineman. You wouldn't normally be that high unless you have the ability.

I do not believe the comparison is remotely fair .... and I'm not a JP fan

[The King]

Jets also lost Kevin Mawea

[patmoran2006]

oh that is naughty.

Pennington is in his 6th year, Losman in his 3rd year even if you want to count the broken leg season.

I think Pennington came from a pro-style offense in college.

Pennington's injuries have been advantageous to him in terms of changing his style and approach. Because his physical limitations have been curtailed, he has actually had to adapt the way he plays not have others try to adapt the way he plays. It is much easier to do that. When I played Rugby a broken shoulder necessitated a major change to the way I played the game. It was much easier for me to adapt because I physically knew I had to than the coaches trying to change the way I played. And Rugby makes American Football look like a girls game.

At no4 and no29 the bleating about rookie OL players in disingenuous. Gandy and others are making rookie mistakes after years of experience. Between Ferguson and Mangold is Pete Kendall who if not a great OG of the last few years is not far from one and was an original No1 himself.

So Pennington is being protected by 3 Round 1 Offensive Lineman. You wouldn't normally be that high unless you have the ability.

I do not believe the comparison is remotely fair .... and I'm not a JP fan
The comparison is fair in that the Jets were WORSE than us LAST year, they have LESS talent than we do, lost MORE than we did, and have a coach who's a ROOKIE..

Yet they are 4-3 and in the playoff hunt, and we are "rebuilding"? What a crock of ****. They have a real quarterback and we dont and a front office who has a clue on how to run and coach a football team, and we dont.. There is NOTHING more to it than that.

[Inetpub]

oh that is naughty.

Pennington is in his 6th year, Losman in his 3rd year even if you want to count the broken leg season.

I think Pennington came from a pro-style offense in college.

Pennington's injuries have been advantageous to him in terms of changing his style and approach. Because his physical limitations have been curtailed, he has actually had to adapt the way he plays not have others try to adapt the way he plays. It is much easier to do that. When I played Rugby a broken shoulder necessitated a major change to the way I played the game. It was much easier for me to adapt because I physically knew I had to than the coaches trying to change the way I played. And Rugby makes American Football look like a girls game.

At no4 and no29 the bleating about rookie OL players in disingenuous. Gandy and others are making rookie mistakes after years of experience. Between Ferguson and Mangold is Pete Kendall who if not a great OG of the last few years is not far from one and was an original No1 himself.

So Pennington is being protected by 3 Round 1 Offensive Lineman. You wouldn't normally be that high unless you have the ability.

I do not believe the comparison is remotely fair .... and I'm not a JP fan

WTF are you smoking? Pennington is young also. It shouldnt matter what year your in. Age is a factor but Pennington has been more injury prone than JP has. Hes probably missed 3 seasons due to his injuries in the last 6 years. The difference is, the Jets believe in him.

And your quote on Chad's injuries being advantageous, when your career relies on being healthy and strong, NO injury is advantageous. You sound more like your licking JP's balls is your not a JP fan. Those are valid comparisons considering everyone around Chad is new to him.

[kernowboy]

WTF are you smoking? Pennington is young also. It shouldnt matter what year your in. Age is a factor but Pennington has been more injury prone than JP has. Hes probably missed 3 seasons due to his injuries in the last 6 years. The difference is, the Jets believe in him.

And your quote on Chad's injuries being advantageous, when your career relies on being healthy and strong, NO injury is advantageous. You sound more like your licking JP's balls is your not a JP fan. Those are valid comparisons considering everyone around Chad is new to him.

You really are totally pathetic in that the moment someone disagrees with you, you resort to personal abuse.

The post of someone with a weak mind

[patmoran2006]

You really are totally pathetic in that the moment someone disagrees with you, you resort to personal abuse.

The post of someone with a weak mind
I agree with you in that its totally stupid to get personal like that and its uncalled for. Very immature.

Having said that though, personal stuff aside, he's 100% right.

[djjimkelly]

chad pennington also isnt getting smoked in 2 seconds 4 to 5 times a game. becuz a free d lineman or LB is smoking him.


JP is a scapegoat by fans who dont truly have a clue!!!!

its not JPs fault our D NEVER takes the ball away.

[kernowboy]

It wasn't so long ago someone was claiming how experienced JP was because he'd undergone 3 preseasons

Well hasn't Chad had 6?

Forgive my maths but I work that out as double the experience in the NFL added to coming from a pro-offence in college.

Do I think he is our QB of the future ... No
Do I think he should be compared to someone with double the experience .. No
Why are we not comparing him with Big Ben at Pittsburgh? Oh yes I forgot, he isn't having a very good season so wouldn't fit well with the argument.

It seems some posters change their opinion as frequently as the wind changes direction

[Ron Burgundy]

I agree with you in that its totally stupid to get personal like that and its uncalled for. Very immature.

Having said that though, personal stuff aside, he's 100% right.

Yup.

[patmoran2006]

It wasn't so long ago someone was claiming how experienced JP was because he'd undergone 3 preseasons

Well hasn't Chad had 6?

Forgive my maths but I work that out as double the experience in the NFL added to coming from a pro-offence in college.

Do I think he is our QB of the future ... No
Do I think he should be compared to someone with double the experience .. No
Why are we not comparing him with Big Ben at Pittsburgh? Oh yes I forgot, he isn't having a very good season so wouldn't fit well with the argument.

It seems some posters change their opinion as frequently as the wind changes direction
You answered the ONLY important question yourself right there in bold, nothing else you said matters..

[Novacane]

chad pennington also isnt getting smoked in 2 seconds 4 to 5 times a game. becuz a free d lineman or LB is smoking him.


JP is a scapegoat by fans who dont truly have a clue!!!!

its not JPs fault our D NEVER takes the ball away.


How do you know. Have you watched every Jet game?

[BillsFever21]

They actually have a real coach and not a proven failure. That is why they are 4-3 and we're 2-5. Mangini's team hasn't given up on him like it looks as if the Bills have already done with Jauron.

If you wanna look at the struggles of our team look no further then the coaching staff. They are the root of all evil.

And although the Jets may be starting two rookies on the OL them rookies are better then we have at them positions. Brick is playing better then Gandy and Mangold is steady so far. And at least they didn't have a rookie 6TH ROUND draft pick starting like we did this week who was just activated for Sunday's roster for the first time.

Last week we saw a thread almost identical to this about Matt Leinart. He crapped the bed this week against the RAIDERS so now I guess Pennington is the new flavor of the week.

If Roethlesberger doesn't play and the Steelers win the game with Batch we may see a thread about him too.

I see this as somebody who can't see past the QB on a team. Like if Peyton Manning switched spots with Losman this season we would be 6-0 with him and the Colts would be 2-5 with Losman.

There is more to winning/losing then the QB spot when the entire team is playing with crap and with no heart. I guess Losman is responsible for that too? That's your choice. It's a free country.


For a perfect example of the SIGNIFICANCE of having your quarterback be your LEADER and why the term "rebuilding" is a sellout for flat out having a crap team, you need to look no farther then in our very own division and the New York Jets.

The Jets were 4-12 last year, a worse record than the Bills.. The Jets have a first-year head coach, who also happens to be a rookie at the position. The Jets lost three of their best players from last season, two Pro Bowlers on defense in John Abraham and Ty Law, and a future Hall of Fame running back in Curtis Martin. One could easily argue that the only star remaining from last year, especially on defense, is Vilma.

The Jets are also starting not one but TWO ROOKIES on the offensive line. And they have a quarterback who physically can't even compare to JP Losman. His arm isnt nearly as strong. His mobility isn't in the same league.

Yet a funny thing, the Jets are suddenly at worst-respectable. They're 4-3 and very much in the thick of the playoff hunt. They are beating ALL the teams they are "supposed to beat" (and when your 4-12 you dont get many of those games). The Jets lost a game they SHOULD have won against Indy and then got blown out by the Jags, 41-0 but rather than go in the tank like we have, responded with back to back to victories.

The biggest reason? Because they have someone at quarterback who's a leader and who the team beleives in. Pennington's stats arent' great, but he's opportunistic and he doesnt turn the ball over at the WORST times. Everybody on that roster believes in him and he's a leader.. He doesn't sit and sulk after a bad pass or drive. He doesnt use movies as examples of how he can hold on to the ball better, he doesnt recite YOda quotes. If you consider Evans and Coles a wash, he has LESS to work with in terms of receivers and backs than Losman does.. and again, the Jets OL MAY be great in years to come, but he has TWO ROOKIES starting already.

The difference between Pennington and Losman are LIGHT years.. Pennington knows how to run an offense and has a clue of what being the leader of a team is all about. Losman is simply clueless, and frankly, he has a loser "woe is me" mentality on Sundays, despite what he says to the press during the week.

Thats why the Jets have already equaled last year's win total through only seven games.. And that's why the Bills will be LUCKY to equal last year's win total through 16 games. Rebuilding is a bull**** word to make excuses.

It's all about the Quarterback.

[patmoran2006]

chad pennington also isnt getting smoked in 2 seconds 4 to 5 times a game. becuz a free d lineman or LB is smoking him.


JP is a scapegoat by fans who dont truly have a clue!!!!

its not JPs fault our D NEVER takes the ball away.
Pennington has only been sacked three fewer times than Losman in 7 games (18 vs 21).

Try again.

[BillsFever21]

The comparison is fair in that the Jets were WORSE than us LAST year, they have LESS talent than we do, lost MORE than we did, and have a coach who's a ROOKIE..

Yet they are 4-3 and in the playoff hunt, and we are "rebuilding"? What a crock of ****. They have a real quarterback and we dont and a front office who has a clue on how to run and coach a football team, and we dont.. There is NOTHING more to it than that.

Yeah they were so much worse...by one game. With Brooks Bollinger as the starting QB for most of the year.

Eric Mangini may be a rookie but he is better now then Jauron will ever be. Rookie HC's can succeed if they are actually good. Veteran coaches can still fail if they are just career failures like Jauron.

[BillsFever21]

Pennington has only been sacked three fewer times than Losman in 7 games (18 vs 21).

Try again.

If Losman had Pennington's mobility he would've been sacked over 25 times.

[patmoran2006]

They actually have a real coach and not a proven failure. That is why they are 4-3 and we're 2-5. Mangini's team hasn't given up on him like it looks as if the Bills have already done with Jauron.

If you wanna look at the struggles of our team look no further then the coaching staff. They are the root of all evil.

And although the Jets may be starting two rookies on the OL them rookies are better then we have at them positions. Brick is playing better then Gandy and Mangold is steady so far. And at least they didn't have a rookie 6TH ROUND draft pick starting like we did this week who was just activated for Sunday's roster for the first time.

Last week we saw a thread almost identical to this about Matt Leinart. He crapped the bed this week against the RAIDERS so now I guess Pennington is the new flavor of the week.

If Roethlesberger doesn't play and the Steelers win the game with Batch we may see a thread about him too.

I see this as somebody who can't see past the QB on a team. Like if Peyton Manning switched spots with Losman this season we would be 6-0 with him and the Colts would be 2-5 with Losman.

There is more to winning/losing then the QB spot when the entire team is playing with crap and with no heart. I guess Losman is responsible for that too? That's your choice. It's a free country.
the Bills EASILY beat New England in week one, Jets in week three and Detroit in week six if Peyton Manning is the QB, to answer your question directly.. That puts us at 5-2.

And I hear what your saying about the coaching staff. Im with you 100%.. we made TERRIBLE choices from the front office down to the coaching staff, this year and for the several past before it. It is THE ROOT of the evil on this team, I agree with you.

and our team played with no heart at all on Sunday, your right about that too. Its NOT just on the QB, but the team starts and ends with the QB and NOBODY looked more lost, uninterested, befuddled and defeated than Losman yesterday.. again

with this team, from the coach, to the trainer to the QB, offensive line and ball boy.. My new philosophy is your either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Losman has showed me NOTHING for nearly a month that he's part of the solution.. Therefore, he's part of the problem, at the MOST important position on the football field.

[kernowboy]

You answered the ONLY important question yourself right there in bold, nothing else you said matters..

But I didn't need to demonise Losman to get there.

The guy has come into the league having been poorly scouted you have to think.

He gets injured, suffers a **** of a coach and GM, and is now on his third Head Coach and 2nd GM since he started out.

I think JP will find a place in the league. I am disappointed that I no longer believe it is Buffalo. I would love not to have to waste a draft pick on a QB but I think that Dick/Marv, whilst seeing progress will not have seen enough to avoid bringing in their own QB of the future.

I just hope that he is given the necessary support by the management AND BY THE FANS but if they are truly represented by some of the posters here, we'll be chasing our next golden boy out of town circa 2009.

I don't think JP is our future but some of the comments made about him and those fans who choose to support him have been nauseating