A Challenge to those of you who think that tagging Price was wise...

[WG]

This is only for those thinking we'll be signing some name players too.

CP has stated that if we release JR, which I think is a foregone conclusion, we'll have ~ $8M in cap space within which to work. Keep in mind that our rookies have to come from that, as do any backups we sign. Then of course there are all the players who will sign their tenders. Anyway, the cap picture will shake out over the next 24 hours.

So let's say we have $5-6M to work with just to sign FAs to boost our D. The challenge is this:

How would you do it?

Whom would you buy and for how much?

Which players would you be looking at?

Include signing bonuses and be realistic in your estimations of value. I.e., no signing Spikes for $2.5M and a $3M SB.

I'm asking b/c I just don't see how we're gonna improve our D significantly w/o the money that's being tied up in Price. I can see us grabbin two marquee players along w/ plenty of backups and second rate guys if we free up the $5M that Price is consuming however. So I thought I would ask those who think TD's such a genious that he can work around any obstacle. :)

So what's your plan?

[Ð]

Time, Wys, give it time to work out. Otherwise we'll all be spouting hypothetical mumbo-jumbo, nothing more.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
This is only for those thinking we'll be signing some name players too.

CP has stated that if we release JR, which I think is a foregone conclusion, we'll have ~ $8M in cap space within which to work. Keep in mind that our rookies have to come from that, as do any backups we sign. Then of course there are all the players who will sign their tenders. Anyway, the cap picture will shake out over the next 24 hours.

So let's say we have $5-6M to work with just to sign FAs to boost our D. The challenge is this:

How would you do it?

Whom would you buy and for how much?

Which players would you be looking at?

Include signing bonuses and be realistic in your estimations of value. I.e., no signing Spikes for $2.5M and a $3M SB.

I'm asking b/c I just don't see how we're gonna improve our D significantly w/o the money that's being tied up in Price. I can see us grabbin two marquee players along w/ plenty of backups and second rate guys if we free up the $5M that Price is consuming however. So I thought I would ask those who think TD's such a genious that he can work around any obstacle. :)

So what's your plan?

1) My number of $8 million includes the tenders

2) Bills don't need any cap space for draft choices until July and it will only be about $1 million for the signing bonuses (if the Bills have only their 6 picks in rds 2-7) and that cap space can come from June 1st cuts

3) Bills still have PLENTY of flexibility to create cap space AS NEEDED.

4) I suggest reading my cap article!

[TedMock]

all we have is hypotheticals right now. If TD pulls out a 1st rounder for Price than the 5Mil is freed up and he'd be closer to genius. I personally would sign Coles for 1.5 a lot faster than Price for 5. We know that TD met with Atlanta but we don't know what the talks were. Right now it's wait and see. If the deal doesn't go through than I hope to god we pull the tag off.

[WG]

I am. Do we have a choice? :)

Just havin' fun with it. I also just think that Bills fans opinion of Price is higher than it is elsewhere around the league whether by GMs or other fans. Understandable, but nonetheless.

We'll see. Again, I sure hope I'm wrong. I hope Atlanta takes Price off of our hands for a first and third on Saturday.

[WG]

As well, consider that Bledsoe almost didn't get a first round pick and several teams in dire need of a QB balked at that offer.

Do you really still think Price is gonna go for more? Same thing basically.

[Stewie]

Assuming six million to work with, this is what i'd do in a perfect world.

DT: John Thornton (TEN) - Young, familiar with GW, good run stuffer to complement big Pat.
5 year 12 million dollar deal with $2 million signing bonus, first year cap value could be around 900k (400 from the bonus and 500 base)

DE: Hugh Douglas (PHI) - Nonstop motor, 10-12 sack type player. Team leader in the locker room.
4 year 16 million dollar deal with a 3 million dollar bonus
first year cap value could be around 1.5 million (750 from the bonus and 800 base)

this leaves around 3.5 million left for...

OLB Shawn Barber (PHI) - Another nonstop motor guy who can make plays all over the field. Young, should be entering his prime
4 year 12 million dollar deal with 2 million bonus
first year cap value could be around 1 million (500 base, 500 cap)

OLB Kevin Hardy (DAL) - Getting older but can still be used as a pash rusher and is good against the run
4 year 12 milliion dollar deal with 2 million bonus
first year cap value could be around 1 million (450 base, 500 cap), this assumes he could qualify for that vet deal where the actual base salary is higher than the cap charge


CB Denard Walker (TEN) - Getting older, but would be a solid #3 corner in a league where you need one (see: Watson, Chris and Rumph, Mike)... I'm not sold on Kevin Thomas or Jason Bostic
3 year 8-9 million dollar deal with 1.5 bonus
first year cap value could be < 1 million (500 cap + 450 base)


This leaves about 500k in cap room, not a lot, but enough to sign a vet to the minimum in case of emergency

[LtBillsFan66]

He'll be traded.

TD either wanted to sign him to a long term deal or trade him. Well they could not agree on a long term deal.

I fail to see how you conclude that we are stuck in this situation. The very worst situation is that we keep him for another year. And pay a bit for it, but it's better than ending up with NOTHING - which would be the case if we hadn't tagged his ass.

Lets see what happens.

"Stay tuned"

[justasportsfan]

Wys makes valid points. Problem is, it's negativity for something that hasn't happened yet. He is just looking at the worse case scenario, nothing wrong with that.

It's obvious that he isn't impressed with TD enough that TD will do a bad job this offseason. We were once labeled negative posters because we didn't think Rob Johnson was worth scrap. Only time proved that we weren't wrong in doing so.

Time again will tell that wys is wrong.

[LtBillsFan66]

"Again" being the key word. :D

[WG]

Call it a concern just! Concern that our D needs have little chance of being met that way that they ought to be. I'm seein' lots of criticism here but not a lot of alternatives towards a solution, eh. ;)


CP,

Sorry, I was off by a Mil. I thought that the salaries of the rookies counted too. I figured in the tenders as you said. If that wasn't clear, sorry. Nevertheless, ...

What's your solution then? Given $7-8M in cap space?

Whom would you sign? For how much and at what positions?

We need 2 OLBs, 1 DT drastically, and a DE who is more than simply a starter.

So who ya gonna go after for an average of ~ $2M apiece assuming no other signings?

[clumping platelets]

I haven't finished looking at all the cap cuts yet.....and it's time for :z:

I'll be back

[justasportsfan]

It's one thing to be concerned, making a bet is predicting your negative thoughts will happen.

[WG]

Originally posted by paulB
Assuming six million to work with, this is what i'd do in a perfect world.

DT: John Thornton (TEN) - Young, familiar with GW, good run stuffer to complement big Pat.
5 year 12 million dollar deal with $2 million signing bonus, first year cap value could be around 900k (400 from the bonus and 500 base)

DE: Hugh Douglas (PHI) - Nonstop motor, 10-12 sack type player. Team leader in the locker room.
4 year 16 million dollar deal with a 3 million dollar bonus
first year cap value could be around 1.5 million (750 from the bonus and 800 base)

this leaves around 3.5 million left for...

OLB Shawn Barber (PHI) - Another nonstop motor guy who can make plays all over the field. Young, should be entering his prime
4 year 12 million dollar deal with 2 million bonus
first year cap value could be around 1 million (500 base, 500 cap)

OLB Kevin Hardy (DAL) - Getting older but can still be used as a pash rusher and is good against the run
4 year 12 milliion dollar deal with 2 million bonus
first year cap value could be around 1 million (450 base, 500 cap), this assumes he could qualify for that vet deal where the actual base salary is higher than the cap charge


CB Denard Walker (TEN) - Getting older, but would be a solid #3 corner in a league where you need one (see: Watson, Chris and Rumph, Mike)... I'm not sold on Kevin Thomas or Jason Bostic
3 year 8-9 million dollar deal with 1.5 bonus
first year cap value could be &lt; 1 million (500 cap + 450 base)


This leaves about 500k in cap room, not a lot, but enough to sign a vet to the minimum in case of emergency

The only problem with your scenario is that this would put us in cap hell as early as next season but NLT than the '05 season, especially with many of our own players who will be coming up. Jennings, Clements, Sullivan if he improves, Drew, Henry. I see us mortgaging the future under such a scenario.

You have to consider future as well. We can just pull a Raiders here. As well, you really think that Douglas is gonna go for so little? I see Douglas going for twice that on a 5/6 yr. deal.

I like your Barber scenario however!

Thanks for posting this though. That's the fun of it, eh. :)

[WG]

Originally posted by billsfanone
He'll be traded.

TD either wanted to sign him to a long term deal or trade him. Well they could not agree on a long term deal.

I fail to see how you conclude that we are stuck in this situation. The very worst situation is that we keep him for another year. And pay a bit for it, but it's better than ending up with NOTHING - which would be the case if we hadn't tagged his ass.

Lets see what happens.

&quot;Stay tuned&quot;


We'd be stuck once we're committed and if no one wants Price.

If we end up w/ Price for $5M, it won't do a thing to improve our O since it'll be the same O. All it does is keep two WRs on the field who want the ball more and in a season where we "plan" on running more. I just don't see the need. It's a waste of cash that we could use to put a championship D on the field.

It clearly and obviously costs us defensively if we have to pay Price $5M.

[LtBillsFan66]

We won't be stuck! There is interest - according to reports.

Even if we don't get a first round pick, we would be better off if we didn't tag him. If we got a bag of footballs, we would be a bag of footballs richer than what we would have if we didn't tag him.

I was really hoping we can keep him with a long term deal. I like PP. Now I hope he is traded. I think it will happen shortly.

[Throne Logic]

He won't be traded unless someone can work out a long-term deal. Why would a team, like Atlanta, give up anything for a player who isn't going to be under a long-term contract? The most likely senario is all parties sit down and work out a deal that is contingent on a trade. Still, a deal has to be worked out.

[Ebenezer]

I'll be shocked if PP is still here on Sunday.

[Tatonka]

no way we land hugh douglas unless pp is traded.. there is speculation that he will be the highest paid free agent this offseason.. he is the ONLY de out there.. and he is a moster at that.. he will get 5-6 mill a year..

[TigerJ]

I think Atlanta is drooling to get Price. It's just a matter of agreeing on compensation. Price is the second best WR out there who could be available and the best (Boston) has baggage. Price wants the chance to be "the man" almost as much as he wants the money. I think once McGee (Price's agent) is satisfied that he knows what Price's market value is (salary wise) the contract negotiations won't be terribly difficult. I don't know that the deal will be done by Saturday, but I'm pretty confident it will get done.

[Judge]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
can[/i] see us grabbin two marquee players along w/ plenty of backups and second rate guys if we free up the $5M that Price is consuming however.

Teams don't need a roster full of marquee players to win. This team has probably already upgraded its DL with Marcus Jones and Keith McKenzie. A few more judicious acquisitions at FA and in the draft could vastly improve this defense even if the Bills can't get Takeo Spikes.

Price for 1 season at $5 mil isn't too bad compared to the commitment the Bills would have to make to keep him long term. If we're "stuck" with him then that's not too bad. If the Bills can move him for a 1st rounder, a good move also.

I can't see the Bills getting a first rounder draft pick for him, but who knows?

[TigerJ]

I think that the Bills really do need to get a DT who is capable of starting, to pair with P. Williams. Edwards still hasn't proven he can cut it. Bannan might make a rotation, but I don't see him as starter quality. They also need two OLBs. They can use help elsewhere, but those three aquisitions would improve the defence significantly IMHO.

Price at $5.01 million is two more million per year than TD wants to pay him. Realistically, that's only one mid priced free agent. That could make a difference but it's not the difference between signing a bunch of guys and sitting on the sidelines in free agency. If Price is traded Buffalo will need to find a quality third receiver. That won't be terribly costly, but will cost some.