Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

[patmoran2006]

When you're in a small market, you're struggling to remain viable, you're owner doesnt want to open up the vault to big-name Free agents anymore, etc.

It makes how well you draft even more crucial to being successful.

For my Losman tirades I dont blame Losman for being a scrub (in my book) I blame Donahoe trading up to draft him.

In fact, after doing a little studying, the biggest reason this team sucks so bad right now is because of the awful job Donahoe did in drafting.

Sure, no GM is perfect.. But the teams that are consistently good have GMs that are right more than they are wrong.

Just a few examples with Donahoe that I'm talking about. You may or may not know this but:

* If Donahoe didn't trade up for Losman and his staff did a little more scouting, instead of moving up AND losing our second rounder AND our 2005 first rounder, we could've have just taken Matt Schaub in the second or even the third round (where he went). WE ended up losing the 11th pick in the 2005 draft with this trade, which we could've used for either Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware or Jamaal Brown. That's pretty depresssing.

* In 2003, if Donahoe felt the need to get cute and take a RB when we already had a 1200 yard runner in Travis Henry, he could've taken Larry Johnson, who went four picks later to KC.

But without question, 2002 is the year that Donahoe put us in a big hole with bad draft decisions that we still suffer from today.

* Taking Mike Williams instead of Bryant McKinnie or Levi Brown.

* Taking Josh Reed in round two, when Deon Branch and Antwan Randle El among others went later in round two.

* Taking Ryan Denney at DE when Alex Brown and Aaron Kampman went after him.

I understand, its all hindsight now and no GM makes the right pick all the time.. But you can't help but think about it being conceivable this team could have Schaub, Merriman, Levi Brown, Alex Brown, Larry Johnson and Deon Branch on this roster right now via the draft..instead of Losman, McGahee, Denney, Reed and Mike Williams.

So without question, the future of this team is going to come down to how Levy drafts over the next two years. HIt more than you miss and we could consistently contend. If Levy has a repeat of Donahoeitis, we could be seeing UB play in a BCS bowl game before the Bills make the playoffs..

I think Levy got off to a good start this year with this rookie class.. Lets pray he keeps it up.

[Novacane]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

* If Donahoe didn't trade up for Losman and his staff did a little more scouting, instead of moving up AND losing our second rounder AND our 2005 first rounder, we could've have just taken Matt Schaub in the second or even the third round (where he went). WE ended up losing the 11th pick in the 2005 draft with this trade, which we could've used for either Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware or Jamaal Brown. That's pretty depresssing.




.

That's more than pretty depressing.

[PECKERWOOD]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

Very good post Pat, well done. I think I threw up a bit in my mouth while reading, though.

[Stewie]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

blah blah blah .. I coulda won the lottery yesterday but that didn't happen either.

[Luisito23]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

blah blah blah .. I coulda won the lottery yesterday but that didn't happen either.

GO BILLS!!!!!!

[Typ0]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

too much hindsight in this post. you can't look at your guys five years later and see who is playing better and then rip apart your drafts with that evidence. It's too hard and many of our guys are still on the team.

I don't agree about McGahee either. TH hasn't done anything in a couple years. His running style is such that he isn't going to last. McGahee is more of a finess runner whose career will be longer. Moving TH along was the right move.

[jamze132]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

I agree that you cn't look back and say who we would have drafted, since it isn't reality. I also agree that Donahoe did a pretty overall crappy job with the draft. Marv & Co. have ther work cut out.

[kernowboy]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

Good post.

I think what depresses me most about the TD years was that he started off so well with Clements, Schobel, Henry, Edwards and Jennings on Day1 of 2001

Now I know hindsight is a great thing and we cannot turn back the clock but I think this does illustrate some things about Donahoe

1) Little if no attention was paid to drafting through Rounds 5-7. Of the 9 picks through 2003-2004-2005, we have missed a total of 3 starters we were able to pick, let alone extra depth. They are Dan Koppen C (patriots), Arnaz Battle WR (49ers) and Reynaldo Hill CB (Titans). All went lower than where they were ranked pre-draft I believe

Rather than look at players who have slid, Donahoe seemed to pay little attention to what the team needed and went for slim Tackles, short CBs, players with injury histories etc

2) We are aware that he focused on shiny skills players with the trenches almost an afterthought. Whilst it is possible to pick up good trench players lower down, you can do the same with skills players as long as you properly scout. Tom Brady is an example.

3) He seemed to double up - Denney (2002) then Kelsay (2003) - Euhus (2004) then Everett (2005). This meant he failed to spread the depth. Our Kelsay pick could have been Jason Witten which means up Euhus pick could have been Nathan Vasher and our Everett pick could have been Nick Kaczur who did really well on the LT last year and would be starting again if not for a shoulder injury.

4) Players he missed on were higher ranked than those he drafted. I am sorry but if most considers a player the 2nd best centre, you don't pick the 6th ranked centre ahead of him. At worst, you trade down for your personal choice as you can get him lower.

Of all of the players he missed on, none were really surprises and all slipped into the laps of those who drafted them.

Donahoe created a management team which meant it wasn't our laps and hence in 2006 Marv was having to draft type of players who if Donahoe had had greater sense would've have been on the roster.

You only move up for a stone cold certainty. You trade down if not sure.

If they'd really wanted Williams in 2002, we could have traded down for him as everybody was jockeying for Sims and if someone nabbed him there was still McKimmie who I think it was a toss of the coin about.

If we stood pat in 2004, in Round 2 we could have picked Randy Starks who carried a R1 grade and was sliding but our pick was already in Dallas. In Round 3 with Starks on board we could have used our Tim Anderson pick on Matt Schaub. And drafted Ware or Merriman or Brown in 2005.



I hope Buffalo Fever is close to the bathroom :)

[Jan Reimers]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

I agree that you cn't look back and say who we would have drafted, since it isn't reality. I also agree that Donahoe did a pretty overall crappy job with the draft. Marv & Co. have ther work cut out.

I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

[kernowboy]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

Jay, I've done some more research and re-edited my post. What annoyed me about Tom was his lack of Day2 drafting expertise ... in 5 years we only have McGee, plus he seemed to have no drafting intelligence. We missed out on 3 other starters through 2003-5 taken below us in Rounds 5-7, all ranked highly, all of whom had slipped

Going into 2004 you want a WR, a QB and a DT. Do you
1) Trade up for a QB give up a R1 the following year?
2) Stand still?

There seems to be a problem with measuring how great the drop off in skills levels there are between players who are considered the 4th best QB and players regarded the 5th best QB fo example. Also there seemed to be poor guess work regarding the needs of other teams. Yes, the Packers were after Losman but who else wanted to spend a Day1 choice on a QB. As I said we could have waited til the 3rd, drafted Schaub instead of Anderson having picked up Starks in the 2nd. Our QB situation might be similar but our DL would be better.

Likewise I don't blame Marv for drafting Whitner at 8 as both the Lions (9) and the Dolphins (16) were high on him. If we'd had Starks onboard would we have needed to have traded up for McCargo?

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

* Taking Mike Williams instead of Bryant McKinnie or Levi Brown.

You mean Levi Jones of the Bengals?

Perhaps you have him confused with bad, bad Leroy Brown.

[Historian]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

Yes, but it shouldn't take long to straighten out, either.

Remember, Marv took a team that was 2-14 in back to back years, and built it into a juggernaut in a little less than two years.

And while he had a little help from the folding of the USFL, he also did not have free agency.

So I still expect this thing to get turned around relatively quick.

Jan is right...TD chose skill positions over the lines, so at least we have that going for us.

[kernowboy]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

Yes, but it shouldn't take long to straighten out, either.

Remember, Marv took a team that was 2-14 in back to back years, and built it into a juggernaut in a little less than two years.

And while he had a little help from the folding of the USFL, he also did not have free agency.

So I still expect this thing to get turned around relatively quick.

Jan is right...TD chose skill positions over the lines, so at least we have that going for us.

Excellent post

I think the difference is that free agency has impacted upon the ability to do this.

It was reassuring to see Marv still has what it takes on Draft day. I do think that in little over two years with good drafts in 2007 and 2008 plus hopefully a good and clever free agency this summer and next, come the 2008 season we could go deep into the post season

[IAG]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

Brutal post... You did not even know who those guys were when draft day rolled around that you stated TD should have selected. Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

He also brought in your best players now. Look at the garbage Marv brought in his first chance...Tutan Reyes, Larry Tripplett, John I am 3rd rounder McCargo and the guy selects a safety in the top 10.

One more brutal Marv take...what TD do when he had an impending UFA that was seeking big dollars? Signed him and got compensation for him (Peerless Price). What did Marv do with Nate Clements? "Come to camp Nate and then we will let you walk"

This team is aimless and destined to bad for years to come because of current management.

The Bills are lost and it most of all it falls at the feet of the owner. He had the ability to give out bonus babies and sign coaches for what is the current day market value and he did not.

It is true that Bills, Cardinals and Lions are the laughing stock of the NFL. They have not made the playoffs in a dog's age and will not anytime soon.

See you in the first hour on draft day...

[Historian]

Re: Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

Dark seasons...like these?

2000: 8-8 (7-4 after 11 games)
1999: 11-5
1998: 10-6

If those are dark seasons....I'll take Pitch Black for 1000 Alex!