Make No Mistake- Its still Donahoe's mess..

[patmoran2006]

When you're in a small market, you're struggling to remain viable, you're owner doesnt want to open up the vault to big-name Free agents anymore, etc.

It makes how well you draft even more crucial to being successful.

For my Losman tirades I dont blame Losman for being a scrub (in my book) I blame Donahoe trading up to draft him.

In fact, after doing a little studying, the biggest reason this team sucks so bad right now is because of the awful job Donahoe did in drafting.

Sure, no GM is perfect.. But the teams that are consistently good have GMs that are right more than they are wrong.

Just a few examples with Donahoe that I'm talking about. You may or may not know this but:

* If Donahoe didn't trade up for Losman and his staff did a little more scouting, instead of moving up AND losing our second rounder AND our 2005 first rounder, we could've have just taken Matt Schaub in the second or even the third round (where he went). WE ended up losing the 11th pick in the 2005 draft with this trade, which we could've used for either Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware or Jamaal Brown. That's pretty depresssing.

* In 2003, if Donahoe felt the need to get cute and take a RB when we already had a 1200 yard runner in Travis Henry, he could've taken Larry Johnson, who went four picks later to KC.

But without question, 2002 is the year that Donahoe put us in a big hole with bad draft decisions that we still suffer from today.

* Taking Mike Williams instead of Bryant McKinnie or Levi Brown.

* Taking Josh Reed in round two, when Deon Branch and Antwan Randle El among others went later in round two.

* Taking Ryan Denney at DE when Alex Brown and Aaron Kampman went after him.

I understand, its all hindsight now and no GM makes the right pick all the time.. But you can't help but think about it being conceivable this team could have Schaub, Merriman, Levi Brown, Alex Brown, Larry Johnson and Deon Branch on this roster right now via the draft..instead of Losman, McGahee, Denney, Reed and Mike Williams.

So without question, the future of this team is going to come down to how Levy drafts over the next two years. HIt more than you miss and we could consistently contend. If Levy has a repeat of Donahoeitis, we could be seeing UB play in a BCS bowl game before the Bills make the playoffs..

I think Levy got off to a good start this year with this rookie class.. Lets pray he keeps it up.

[Novacane]

* If Donahoe didn't trade up for Losman and his staff did a little more scouting, instead of moving up AND losing our second rounder AND our 2005 first rounder, we could've have just taken Matt Schaub in the second or even the third round (where he went). WE ended up losing the 11th pick in the 2005 draft with this trade, which we could've used for either Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware or Jamaal Brown. That's pretty depresssing.




.

That's more than pretty depressing.

[PECKERWOOD]

Very good post Pat, well done. I think I threw up a bit in my mouth while reading, though.

[Stewie]

blah blah blah .. I coulda won the lottery yesterday but that didn't happen either.

[Luisito23]

blah blah blah .. I coulda won the lottery yesterday but that didn't happen either.


:shake:

GO BILLS!!!!!!

[Typ0]

too much hindsight in this post. you can't look at your guys five years later and see who is playing better and then rip apart your drafts with that evidence. It's too hard and many of our guys are still on the team.

I don't agree about McGahee either. TH hasn't done anything in a couple years. His running style is such that he isn't going to last. McGahee is more of a finess runner whose career will be longer. Moving TH along was the right move.

[jamze132]

I agree that you cn't look back and say who we would have drafted, since it isn't reality. I also agree that Donahoe did a pretty overall crappy job with the draft. Marv & Co. have ther work cut out.

[kernowboy]

Good post.

I think what depresses me most about the TD years was that he started off so well with Clements, Schobel, Henry, Edwards and Jennings on Day1 of 2001

Now I know hindsight is a great thing and we cannot turn back the clock but I think this does illustrate some things about Donahoe

1) Little if no attention was paid to drafting through Rounds 5-7. Of the 9 picks through 2003-2004-2005, we have missed a total of 3 starters we were able to pick, let alone extra depth. They are Dan Koppen C (patriots), Arnaz Battle WR (49ers) and Reynaldo Hill CB (Titans). All went lower than where they were ranked pre-draft I believe

Rather than look at players who have slid, Donahoe seemed to pay little attention to what the team needed and went for slim Tackles, short CBs, players with injury histories etc

2) We are aware that he focused on shiny skills players with the trenches almost an afterthought. Whilst it is possible to pick up good trench players lower down, you can do the same with skills players as long as you properly scout. Tom Brady is an example.

3) He seemed to double up - Denney (2002) then Kelsay (2003) - Euhus (2004) then Everett (2005). This meant he failed to spread the depth. Our Kelsay pick could have been Jason Witten which means up Euhus pick could have been Nathan Vasher and our Everett pick could have been Nick Kaczur who did really well on the LT last year and would be starting again if not for a shoulder injury.

4) Players he missed on were higher ranked than those he drafted. I am sorry but if most considers a player the 2nd best centre, you don't pick the 6th ranked centre ahead of him. At worst, you trade down for your personal choice as you can get him lower.

Of all of the players he missed on, none were really surprises and all slipped into the laps of those who drafted them.

Donahoe created a management team which meant it wasn't our laps and hence in 2006 Marv was having to draft type of players who if Donahoe had had greater sense would've have been on the roster.

You only move up for a stone cold certainty. You trade down if not sure.

If they'd really wanted Williams in 2002, we could have traded down for him as everybody was jockeying for Sims and if someone nabbed him there was still McKimmie who I think it was a toss of the coin about.

If we stood pat in 2004, in Round 2 we could have picked Randy Starks who carried a R1 grade and was sliding but our pick was already in Dallas. In Round 3 with Starks on board we could have used our Tim Anderson pick on Matt Schaub. And drafted Ware or Merriman or Brown in 2005.



I hope Buffalo Fever is close to the bathroom :)

[Jan Reimers]

I agree that you cn't look back and say who we would have drafted, since it isn't reality. I also agree that Donahoe did a pretty overall crappy job with the draft. Marv & Co. have ther work cut out.
I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

[kernowboy]

I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

Jay, I've done some more research and re-edited my post. What annoyed me about Tom was his lack of Day2 drafting expertise ... in 5 years we only have McGee, plus he seemed to have no drafting intelligence. We missed out on 3 other starters through 2003-5 taken below us in Rounds 5-7, all ranked highly, all of whom had slipped

Going into 2004 you want a WR, a QB and a DT. Do you
1) Trade up for a QB give up a R1 the following year?
2) Stand still?

There seems to be a problem with measuring how great the drop off in skills levels there are between players who are considered the 4th best QB and players regarded the 5th best QB fo example. Also there seemed to be poor guess work regarding the needs of other teams. Yes, the Packers were after Losman but who else wanted to spend a Day1 choice on a QB. As I said we could have waited til the 3rd, drafted Schaub instead of Anderson having picked up Starks in the 2nd. Our QB situation might be similar but our DL would be better.

Likewise I don't blame Marv for drafting Whitner at 8 as both the Lions (9) and the Dolphins (16) were high on him. If we'd had Starks onboard would we have needed to have traded up for McCargo?

[Ickybaluky]

* Taking Mike Williams instead of Bryant McKinnie or Levi Brown.

You mean Levi Jones of the Bengals?

Perhaps you have him confused with bad, bad Leroy Brown.

[Historian]

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.

Yes, but it shouldn't take long to straighten out, either.

Remember, Marv took a team that was 2-14 in back to back years, and built it into a juggernaut in a little less than two years.

And while he had a little help from the folding of the USFL, he also did not have free agency.

So I still expect this thing to get turned around relatively quick.

Jan is right...TD chose skill positions over the lines, so at least we have that going for us.

[kernowboy]

Yes, but it shouldn't take long to straighten out, either.

Remember, Marv took a team that was 2-14 in back to back years, and built it into a juggernaut in a little less than two years.

And while he had a little help from the folding of the USFL, he also did not have free agency.

So I still expect this thing to get turned around relatively quick.

Jan is right...TD chose skill positions over the lines, so at least we have that going for us.

Excellent post

I think the difference is that free agency has impacted upon the ability to do this.

It was reassuring to see Marv still has what it takes on Draft day. I do think that in little over two years with good drafts in 2007 and 2008 plus hopefully a good and clever free agency this summer and next, come the 2008 season we could go deep into the post season

[IAG]

Brutal post... You did not even know who those guys were when draft day rolled around that you stated TD should have selected. Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

He also brought in your best players now. Look at the garbage Marv brought in his first chance...Tutan Reyes, Larry Tripplett, John I am 3rd rounder McCargo and the guy selects a safety in the top 10.

One more brutal Marv take...what TD do when he had an impending UFA that was seeking big dollars? Signed him and got compensation for him (Peerless Price). What did Marv do with Nate Clements? "Come to camp Nate and then we will let you walk"

This team is aimless and destined to bad for years to come because of current management.

The Bills are lost and it most of all it falls at the feet of the owner. He had the ability to give out bonus babies and sign coaches for what is the current day market value and he did not.

It is true that Bills, Cardinals and Lions are the laughing stock of the NFL. They have not made the playoffs in a dog's age and will not anytime soon.

See you in the first hour on draft day...

[Historian]

Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

Dark seasons...like these?

2000: 8-8 (7-4 after 11 games)
1999: 11-5
1998: 10-6

If those are dark seasons....I'll take Pitch Black for 1000 Alex!

[patmoran2006]

Brutal post... You did not even know who those guys were when draft day rolled around that you stated TD should have selected. Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

He also brought in your best players now. Look at the garbage Marv brought in his first chance...Tutan Reyes, Larry Tripplett, John I am 3rd rounder McCargo and the guy selects a safety in the top 10.

One more brutal Marv take...what TD do when he had an impending UFA that was seeking big dollars? Signed him and got compensation for him (Peerless Price). What did Marv do with Nate Clements? "Come to camp Nate and then we will let you walk"

This team is aimless and destined to bad for years to come because of current management.

The Bills are lost and it most of all it falls at the feet of the owner. He had the ability to give out bonus babies and sign coaches for what is the current day market value and he did not.

It is true that Bills, Cardinals and Lions are the laughing stock of the NFL. They have not made the playoffs in a dog's age and will not anytime soon.

See you in the first hour on draft day...

1- Do your homework. To say I didn't know who these guys were on draft day is ******ed.

2- Donahoe didnt take over after "dark" seasons. We were two years removed from the playoffs, and we didnt have a losing record the three seasons before he took over.. Granted, he did walk into a team in trouble with the salary cap; I'd get into it more but judging by your post, your not articulate enought to understand anything you don't want to.

[patmoran2006]

I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.
Jan, you're right that hindsight is 20/20 and I said so in my post. but I dont think it's pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks, because its the single-biggest reason this team is still not good; a lack of impact players. No GM hits on all of his draft picks, but the good ones hit more than they miss.

The 2002-04 drafts are the reason the Bills are what they are right now.

[kernowboy]

Jan, you're right that hindsight is 20/20 and I said so in my post. but I dont think it's pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks, because its the single-biggest reason this team is still not good; a lack of impact players. No GM hits on all of his draft picks, but the good ones hit more than they miss.

The 2002-04 drafts are the reason the Bills are what they are right now.

Pat,

If we leave out 2002, I still think the next 3 were shockers.

2003 - we missed out on Witten TE, and this has been a failure in the offence since. We could have drafted Koppen C who'd be the equal of Fowler. Battle would have been a possible big No2 WR and as a college QB could have helped with some trick plays

2004 - I think JP was a R1 pick. But not at the cost we gave up. We missed out on Starks in R2, could have then picked Schaub instead of Anderson in R3, and also have a starting FB in Karney selected with our retained R5 pick

2005 - even assuming we went that way in 2004, we drafted Parrish who was not used, drafted another failed TE instead of a possible OT/OG in Kaczur, who could be our LT, as he replaced Light very well.
If we'd already picked Koppen, we could have picked Alvin Pearman or Chris Canty in the 4th, Anttaj Hawthorne in the 5th who I think could be a solid NT if given the chance (who cares if he smoked some dope) and Reynaldo Hill who could have replaced Nate Clements.

Donahoe's drafts just got worse and worse.

[patmoran2006]

I dont think Donahoe stopped caring, but I think as the drafts went on he tried to get too cute and its killing us now.

I like McGahee unlike a lot on here, but there was NO reason to draft him. Taking him over a DL, TE or OL in round one when we had Travis Henry was flat-out stupid..

With Losman, I think he was a borderline first rounder and to that point it holds true. If he was that hell bent on a QB he should've moved up with the first pick and moved ahead of Pitt for Big Ben, who would've fit like a glove in a city like Buffalo. To give up a first, second and fifth rounder for the 23rd pick is just stupid. That's not Losman's fault either, it's Donahoe's.

[kernowboy]

1- Do your homework. To say I didn't know who these guys were on draft day is ******ed.

2- Donahoe didnt take over after "dark" seasons. We were two years removed from the playoffs, and we didnt have a losing record the three seasons before he took over.. Granted, he did walk into a team in trouble with the salary cap; I'd get into it more but judging by your post, your not articulate enought to understand anything you don't want to.

Agreed

In each draft you will get players who slip because of a lack of general need at the position, a slight down turn in form etc.

We need to pick these players when they are lower than anticipated, the Randy Starks, the Nathan Vashers etc

[kernowboy]

Brutal post... You did not even know who those guys were when draft day rolled around that you stated TD should have selected. Donahoe brought hope and excitement back after some dark seasons even though the results were never there.

He also brought in your best players now. Look at the garbage Marv brought in his first chance...Tutan Reyes, Larry Tripplett, John I am 3rd rounder McCargo and the guy selects a safety in the top 10.

One more brutal Marv take...what TD do when he had an impending UFA that was seeking big dollars? Signed him and got compensation for him (Peerless Price). What did Marv do with Nate Clements? "Come to camp Nate and then we will let you walk"

This team is aimless and destined to bad for years to come because of current management.

The Bills are lost and it most of all it falls at the feet of the owner. He had the ability to give out bonus babies and sign coaches for what is the current day market value and he did not.

It is true that Bills, Cardinals and Lions are the laughing stock of the NFL. They have not made the playoffs in a dog's age and will not anytime soon.

See you in the first hour on draft day...

Whitner was being heavily scouted by the Lions and Dolphins and may not have dropped below 16. He has done well

McCargo was slow adapting but had started to come on. We only gave up a 2nd and an extra 3rd for him, not the 2nd,5th and 1st as we did for JP. The jury is still out and it was also thought the Giants wanted to use their 1st rounder no32 on him. Thats why we had to move up.

Both Reyes and Tripplett were free agency signings. The thread is looking at the slide in Donahoe's drafting skills. Donahoe also had some FA turkeys.

Price was heavily scouted by the Falcons. I do not think anyone was offering a R1 for Clements, plus we had zero depth behind Clements to cover his immediate departure. In this case it was the player rather than the management who held all the cards

[kernowboy]

but if Tom had done better in the draft then we'd have had

either Nathan Vasher, taken R4 - 2004 instead of Euhus
or Reynaldo Hill, taken R6 - 2005 instead of Geisinger

if he'd done that, we could have shipped Clements for a R2 or R3

[justasportsfan]

When you're in a small market, you're struggling to remain viable, you're owner doesnt want to open up the vault to big-name Free agents anymore, etc.

It makes how well you draft even more crucial to being successful.

For my Losman tirades I dont blame Losman for being a scrub (in my book) I blame Donahoe trading up to draft him.

In fact, after doing a little studying, the biggest reason this team sucks so bad right now is because of the awful job Donahoe did in drafting.

Sure, no GM is perfect.. But the teams that are consistently good have GMs that are right more than they are wrong.

Just a few examples with Donahoe that I'm talking about. You may or may not know this but:

* If Donahoe didn't trade up for Losman and his staff did a little more scouting, instead of moving up AND losing our second rounder AND our 2005 first rounder, we could've have just taken Matt Schaub in the second or even the third round (where he went). WE ended up losing the 11th pick in the 2005 draft with this trade, which we could've used for either Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware or Jamaal Brown. That's pretty depresssing.

* In 2003, if Donahoe felt the need to get cute and take a RB when we already had a 1200 yard runner in Travis Henry, he could've taken Larry Johnson, who went four picks later to KC.

But without question, 2002 is the year that Donahoe put us in a big hole with bad draft decisions that we still suffer from today.

* Taking Mike Williams instead of Bryant McKinnie or Levi Brown.

* Taking Josh Reed in round two, when Deon Branch and Antwan Randle El among others went later in round two.

* Taking Ryan Denney at DE when Alex Brown and Aaron Kampman went after him.

I understand, its all hindsight now and no GM makes the right pick all the time.. But you can't help but think about it being conceivable this team could have Schaub, Merriman, Levi Brown, Alex Brown, Larry Johnson and Deon Branch on this roster right now via the draft..instead of Losman, McGahee, Denney, Reed and Mike Williams.

So without question, the future of this team is going to come down to how Levy drafts over the next two years. HIt more than you miss and we could consistently contend. If Levy has a repeat of Donahoeitis, we could be seeing UB play in a BCS bowl game before the Bills make the playoffs..

I think Levy got off to a good start this year with this rookie class.. Lets pray he keeps it up.


Donhoe missed out on Brady too. He could've been had either in the 5th or early 6th rd. :huh:

Of all the things to pick on TD, drafting was not his biggest problem. it was missing out on coaches like Weiss , Fox and even Coughlin.

[HHURRICANE]

Donhoe missed out on Brady too. He could've been had either in the 5th or early 6th rd. :huh:

Of all the things to pick on TD, drafting was not his biggest problem. it was missing out on coaches like Weiss , Fox and even Coughlin.

No, no. Let's be fair. Schaub is a very fair argument. We didn't need to move up but Donohoe was such an ego maniac and loved the spotlight on draft day.

The Brady argument is not apples to apples.

[kernowboy]

No, no. Let's be fair. Schaub is a very fair argument. We didn't need to move up but Donohoe was such an ego maniac and loved the spotlight on draft day.

The Brady argument is not apples to apples.

Agreed. I think Losman can still come good, but I don't think Schaub was a R2, a R5 and then a R1 worse in what he could offer. We lost two stunning Terrapins players on the D and a good solid fullback

[IAG]

I like how you say that Whitner was "heavily scouted". Every player is heavily scouted. Sometimes it is to throw off teams (Bills) to take a player higher in the draft that they normally would.

Bottom line...Reyes stinks, McCargo stinks, Tripplet stinks, Levy is clueless and Jauron is brutal. 3rd worst owner in the NFL.

Please tell me why I am wrong with Levy botching the Clements deal unlike TD did with Price? I noticed you did not touch that and oh yeah...Cards, Lions and Bills. The 3 lowliest teams in the NFL.

Keep blaming TD, it will get you far.

[kernowboy]

I like how you say that Whitner was "heavily scouted". Every player is heavily scouted. Sometimes it is to throw off teams (Bills) to take a player higher in the draft that they normally would.

Bottom line...Reyes stinks, McCargo stinks, Tripplet stinks, Levy is clueless and Jauron is brutal. 3rd worst owner in the NFL.

Please tell me why I am wrong with Levy botching the Clements deal unlike TD did with Price? I noticed you did not touch that and oh yeah...Cards, Lions and Bills. The 3 lowliest teams in the NFL.

Keep blaming TD, it will get you far.

Because the Falcons were willing to give up a Round1 pick for Price.

I have no doubt we tried to shop Clements but due to his 2005 performance, nobody was offering a Round1 in compensation. We had a choice to either let him go at the end of 2005 for nothing, or at least keep him for 2006 and try to bring someone along as a replacement. We did well to sign Youboty but his progress has been hampered by the death of his mother and the time off he took which I am sure people understand.

We used Reyes to replace Bennie Anderson, an upgrade in my book. He was adequate but has lost his place becuase Gandy is more mobile and because he has had a shoulder problem.

Likewise with Tripplett, none of the free agents DTs including Kemoteau or Pickett have done well as of yet. We could have kept Adams but his cancerous behaviour last season was unacceptable. Who else could we have signed instead of Tripplett who is actually doing better.

And whilst McCargo has come along more slowly that would have been liked, he was hospitalised during training camp which impeded his progress, he was beginning to adapt and coming along more quickly prior to his injury and he has done as well as Bunkley who some people were screaming at to be taken with the No8 pick.

And Whitner has been one of the best rookies to date, out performing Huff who everyone was drooling about.

It was always going to take more than one season to clean up the mess Donahoe left us in

[IAG]

Put it this way...the Bills will win with a new coach, GM and owner...They are laughable around the league. COMICAL.

[patmoran2006]

Because the Falcons were willing to give up a Round1 pick for Price.

I have no doubt we tried to shop Clements but due to his 2005 performance, nobody was offering a Round1 in compensation. We had a choice to either let him go at the end of 2005 for nothing, or at least keep him for 2006 and try to bring someone along as a replacement. We did well to sign Youboty but his progress has been hampered by the death of his mother and the time off he took which I am sure people understand.

We used Reyes to replace Bennie Anderson, an upgrade in my book. He was adequate but has lost his place becuase Gandy is more mobile and because he has had a shoulder problem.

Likewise with Tripplett, none of the free agents DTs including Kemoteau or Pickett have done well as of yet. We could have kept Adams but his cancerous behaviour last season was unacceptable. Who else could we have signed instead of Tripplett who is actually doing better.

And whilst McCargo has come along more slowly that would have been liked, he was hospitalised during training camp which impeded his progress, he was beginning to adapt and coming along more quickly prior to his injury and he has done as well as Bunkley who some people were screaming at to be taken with the No8 pick.

And Whitner has been one of the best rookies to date, out performing Huff who everyone was drooling about.

It was always going to take more than one season to clean up the mess Donahoe left us in

Good points Kern, but I'm going to disagree with you.

It didnt' have to take more than one year to be legitimately contending for the division. Chicago and NE I think we lose regardless of who was behind center... Nobody on the team did anything those games. But the Jets game, Detroit and the first NE game, if we have better QB'ing we win those games and we're 5-2 at the bye, and anybody who watched the games this year knows that's VERY REALISTIC we could easily be 5-2..

Levy could've went out and either drafted a QB or found a more steady and consistent vet this offseason, and choose not too. His decision was to sign Craig Nall to compete for a starting spot... obviously that went nowhere.

The Jets are 4-3 and contending, with LESS overall talent,a first year coach like us, key losses (Ty Law, Curtis Martin, John Abraham) and an even worse record last year.. SO I dont buy that.

Its plain and simple.. Its all about steady and consistent QB play.
Buffalo is closer to being a contender than you think.. Once they have a QB who can put us in position to win and the other 52 guys BELIEVE IN< they'll start winning a lot more games.

[kernowboy]

Put it this way...the Bills will win with a new coach, GM and owner...They are laughable around the league. COMICAL.

The Bills will be playing in Los Angeles with a new owner

[jamze132]

I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so it is somewhat pointless to criticize Donahoe for missed draft picks - he had some hits, too, and I continue to think the jury's still out on Losman.

My biggest problem with Donahoe's philosophy is thet he almost always went for players at the skilled positions, and ignored (for the most part) the lines. He also let the overall D deteriorate the last couple of years that he was here.

No matter exactly how you view it though, Donahoe DID make a mess of this franchise over his 5 years. I think it will take Marv more than a year to straighten it out.
Completely agree.

[IAG]

Randy Starks would have made a difference? Holy cow Bills fans...

[kernowboy]

Randy Starks would have made a difference? Holy cow Bills fans...

He's not been too shabby on the Titans DL and if you factor in that by moving up for Losman, meant we were left with Tim Anderson in the 3rd then Randy Starks would have made a difference. Additionally the R1 we gave up in 2005 could have been Shawn Merriman.

Tom Donahoe's genius in his latter years meant

2004
R1 (from Cowboys) Losman QB
R2 to Cowboys
R3 Tim Anderson DT
R5 to Cowboys
2005
R1 to Cowboys

when it could have been
2004
R2 Randy Starks DT (originally thought of as a possible R1)
R3 Matt Schaub QB
R5 Mike Karney FB (considering how Shelton has been playing ......)
2005
R1 Shawn Merriman or Jamal Brown

now I know which option looks clever to me