Are the Bills really that much of a disappointment so far?

[Mr. Miyagi]

We have a 2-5 record. Who did we lose to that we realistically didn't expect to lose to?

New England twice? No.
Chicago? No.
Jets? Yes.
Detroit? Yes.

So we lost two games that we expected to win.

Yet we beat Miami on the road and Minnesota, both games we were actually expecting to lose at the beginning of the season. And we came through.

So are we that much of a disappointment thus far? I would say no. We're somewhat where we're expected to be.

Looking ahead, we are expected to beat Green Bay at home, Houston on the road, Miami at home, and Tennessee at home. If we beat all those teams and sneak in an upset or two among Indy (nah), Jacksonville (maybe), San Diego (not with our run D), Jets (possible), and Baltimore (hmmm), we could salvage the season and go .500, which would've been a step forward in most of Bills fans' books.

So give the rest of the season a chance. :miyagi:

[Patrick76777]

I think it is disappointing.


I was conned by the JP BF’s to buy into his development being the most important reason for this season.

Fine.

So in his wins, he was handcuffed in Miami and we score 16 points and won. And he plays well for a half against Minny and barely hold on for the win.

In his losses, he played well for a half in NE and had nice drives after being way down against the Jets and Lions. He also looked downright terrible against NE, Chicago and Detroit.

So, if the sole purpose of this season is the development of a QB, and that QB has regressed in weeks 5 through 7, it’s not a good thing.

Therefore, it feels like a wasted season. If JP was playing well and we were losing because we couldn’t stop the run, I’d be OK with it. Because we’d use the offseason to build up the D some more. But JP looks terrible, so now we need to find a QB and fix the D.

Bad season.

[Mr. Cynical]

All signs point to another losing era.

[Mr. Miyagi]

All signs point to another losing era.
You're Mr. Cynical. All signs always point to something bad.

[Mr. Cynical]

You're Mr. Cynical. All signs always point to something bad.

Not true. Signs to Cole's point to something great. Tasty wings! :D

[Jan Reimers]

I'm a little disappointed that JP - and a number of other players - haven't shown more improvement over the last three games. I think the TEAM has regressed a little after a promising four game start, but overall, I think many of us expected this kind of seven game record.

[OpIv37]

We have a 2-5 record. Who did we lose to that we realistically didn't expect to lose to?

New England twice? No.
Chicago? No.
Jets? Yes.
Detroit? Yes.

So we lost two games that we expected to win.

Yet we beat Miami on the road and Minnesota, both games we were actually expecting to lose at the beginning of the season. And we came through.

So are we that much of a disappointment thus far? I would say no. We're somewhat where we're expected to be.

Looking ahead, we are expected to beat Green Bay at home, Houston on the road, Miami at home, and Tennessee at home. If we beat all those teams and sneak in an upset or two among Indy (nah), Jacksonville (maybe), San Diego (not with our run D), Jets (possible), and Baltimore (hmmm), we could salvage the season and go .500, which would've been a step forward in most of Bills fans' books.

So give the rest of the season a chance. :miyagi:


Rebuilding means improving- no one expected us to win a lot of games (except a few homers). The scary thing: this team has gotten WORSE over the last 3 games compared to how we started. Look at the first game against NE- it was winnable aside from a few stupid mistakes. Compare that to the 28-6 debacle in the last game. It was the same team, at home instead of on the road, and they destroyed us.

What positions have gotten better? The DL has shown little if any improvement and can't generate a consistent pass rush. Clements is just as bad as he was last year, and now McGee sucks too. Spikes is hampered by injuries and age is catching up with Fletcher. Other than S, this D does not look any better than it did last year. There's some hope because of the youth on this squad, but not a whole lot of it.

On to the offense: JP has regressed over the last few games. Lee Evans looks good. Our big offseason signing on O- Royal- has had 1 big game and 1 decent game out of 7. The OL still sucks and in fact one of the guys brought in has already been benched. Price has had a few big plays but has been inconsistent- same for Josh Reed (although he does seem to have improved on the dropsies). Andre Davis is a waste of a roster spot.

ST: Not bad, but other than the kicker and punter, not nearly as dominant as last year. And they've only generated one big return in 7 games (and they've had a LOT of chances because of how teams have been scoring on us).

Conclusion: the season's half over and we've only noticibly improved at one position over last year. And it looks like we're going to have to spend the off season working on a few positions that we thought were fine (CB, for instance). Yes, this season has been a huge disappointment- not because of the record, but because of the lack of progress.

[OpIv37]

I'm a little disappointed that JP - and a number of other players - haven't shown more improvement over the last three games. I think the TEAM has regressed a little after a promising four game start, but overall, I think many of us expected this kind of seven game record.

that's exactly how I feel. I expected the record to be similar at this point (although I did expect a victory against the Lions), but the lack of improvement in a number of areas has me really disappointed.

Miyagi is oversimplifying by saying the season isn't disappointing based on record alone).

[Mr. Miyagi]

Progress is very subjective. Records speak for themselves.

By the same token, are the Bears really the best team in the league? Grossman is the next Brett Favre? Who knows, but they are 7-0 and no one can argue with that.

[OpIv37]

Progress is very subjective. Records speak for themselves.

By the same token, are the Bears really the best team in the league? Grossman is the next Brett Favre? Who knows, but they are 7-0 and no one can argue with that.

you are 100% wrong on this.

There are both subjective and objective measures of progress. By any objective measure and most subjective measures, JP has gotten worse, TKO has gotten worse, Terrance McGee has gotten worse, ST has gotten worse (FG's and punting excluded), etc.

You can't evaluate a rebuilidng season on record alone- even justa will agree with me on that one.

But, if you believe records speak for themselves, we were 3-4 after 7 games last year. It takes an EXTREMELY subjective measure to prove that 2-5 is better than 3-4.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The 3-4 last year consisted of beating an terrible Miami team (at that point of their season), a terrible Jets team, and a terrible Oakland team, after losing 4 straight mind you.

[OpIv37]

The 3-4 last year consisted of beating an terrible Miami team (at that point of their season), a terrible Jets team, and a terrible Oakland team, after losing 4 straight mind you.

check your stats- we LOST to that terrible Oakland team last year, just like we LOST to a terrible Detroit team this year. No progress.

And so far this year, we beat a mediocre Minnesota team and a terrible Miami team.

[Mr. Miyagi]

check your stats- we LOST to that terrible Oakland team last year, just like we LOST to a terrible Detroit team this year. No progress.

And so far this year, we beat a mediocre Minnesota team and a terrible Miami team.
Right. My bad. We beat that terrible Houston team instead of that terrible Oakland team.

[OpIv37]

Right. My bad. We beat that terrible Houston team instead of that terrible Oakland team.

it's earily similar to last year. In 05, we started off with a strong win against a Houston team that everyone expected to be good. Well, it turned out to be an illusion because Houston sucked, and we went on to get killed by a horrid Oakland team and have a bad season.

In 06, we started with two strong games- a close loss to the Pats and a road win over the Fish. Well, turns out the Fish suck and we went on to lose to a terrible Detroit team...

Anyway, this is off topic.

The point is that only one position has shown progress this year. As fans, we should be very disappointed in a season that will most likely end with double-digit loses all for the sole sake of getting better at S.

If we can continue to get better at one position a year, this team could be competitive in 12-15 seasons! WOO HOO!

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm willing to take the lumps this season, to develop the young players, get a decent draft position and load up on offense like we did last draft on defense, and we'll be competitive for years to come.

I hope. :pray:

[Saratoga Slim]

I'm with you Miyagi. I'd like to be 5-2, but fully expected soemthing along the lines of 2-5 at this point. Thus I'm not ready to march on OBD.

I also fully agree with the basic point Op's making: that this season is about seeing some progress. But unlike Op, I don't think the fact that we're playing somewhat badly means that no progress is being made at this point. We have a whole new D and O system for the returning vets to deal with, and then a TON of new personnel thrown in that haven't played together before. I mean, look at all the guys that are seeing significant playing time that weren't here last year: Reyes, Fowler, Pennington, Royal, Price, Triplett, McCargo, Williams, Whitner, Simpson, Ellison, Kiwaukee Thomas etc. They're probably still wearing name tags to team meetings.

My point is that it's a lot to ask for either the D or the O to be quickly gelling and looking good at this point.

It's also not really fair to compare them to last year's squad's performance through 7 games. The personnel on the 2005 team wasn't in as great a state of upheaval (with the notable exceptions of the departed Bledsoe and Pat Williams) as this year's, wasn't starting ANY rookies that I can remember, and already had a full year of Mularkey's system under their belt.

I think we need to look at the first 7 games as a big get acquainted period for everybody, and focus on the remaining nine as the true test of whether progress is indeed getting made.

[OpIv37]

I'm willing to take the lumps this season, to develop the young players, get a decent draft position and load up on offense like we did last draft on defense, and we'll be competitive for years to come.

I hope. :pray:

I'll agree with you on that one.

My problem is that I'm disappointed in the development we've shown so far this season. I was hoping to see more improvement than we have.

[Mudflap1]

They're 2-5 right now, which is exactly where I'd thought they'd be.

The curious thing is they played a lot tougher the first 4 games than I thought they would, then they got totally outclassed the last 3 games. I thought it would be more of the other way around. That's the troubling trend IMO. If they can get back to playing tough, competitive football like the first 4 games, they'll win a few more games this season and probably be 5-11 or better, but on an upswing. The whole team has looked really bad the last 3 games, with J.P. Losman unfortunately leading the way with that trend.

Miyagi, you eternal optimist you, they are not going 8-8 this year. Not happening. You stated that 2-5 is about where we thought they'd be. I remember after the Miami game you and others saying this team should be 6-2 or 7-1 at midseason, so obviously that is not consistent with what you are saying here.

This season is not about winning games anymore as much as it's about getting back to playing tough tooth-and-nail competitive games with good coaching like they were early on. The fact of the matter is this team as it stands right now just does not have the horses to win 8 games or more. They really probably only have 10-15 players at most that could start/contribute on other teams. We just have to do the best with what we have this season, get back to playing tough, and get Losman to play to the best of his ability. If all of that can be done, then you plug some more holes next year, draft well, and look for an 8-8 season or better. If they can't play competitive for the rest of this season and Losman continues his downward spiral he's shown the last 3 weeks, we're in for a world of trouble.

Jon

[Earthquake Enyart]

I thought if they could keep it together, that the schedule sets up for a possible run after the bye. I was hoping to make the break at least 3-4 if not 4-3.

The Jet and Lion games stick in my craw. Those are games we should have won. Given the way we have looked lately, I see us going toe to toe with the POS Packers, Texans, Fins and Jets to scrape up any more wins. :ill:

[Saratoga Slim]

EE, I think you just hit the nail on the head. A lot of the disappointment that everybody's feeling comes from the fact that we could EASILY be 4-3, and if Dick kicks the field goal in the 3rd Q against NE, 5-2. I just don't think we should permit the fact that we had good, competitive efforts in the close games we lost, to overshadow the general quality of play in those games.

[Typ0]

who expects us to beat Green Bay at home? The other games I agree with you on except Baltimore who I don't see us beating. But Green Bay is a better team and they are playing better. I don't expect a win but it would be nice.

I'm mostly disappointed because it looked in the first couple games that we might show up to play some football...and then things spiraled downhill.

[ublinkwescore]

I think it is disappointing.


I was conned by the JP BF’s to buy into his development being the most important reason for this season.

Fine.

So in his wins, he was handcuffed in Miami and we score 16 points and won. And he plays well for a half against Minny and barely hold on for the win.

In his losses, he played well for a half in NE and had nice drives after being way down against the Jets and Lions. He also looked downright terrible against NE, Chicago and Detroit.

So, if the sole purpose of this season is the development of a QB, and that QB has regressed in weeks 5 through 7, it’s not a good thing.

Therefore, it feels like a wasted season. If JP was playing well and we were losing because we couldn’t stop the run, I’d be OK with it. Because we’d use the offseason to build up the D some more. But JP looks terrible, so now we need to find a QB and fix the D.

Bad season.

Can you name me one person (QB) who has looked good against Chicago?

I sure as hell can't.

[ublinkwescore]

Rebuilding means improving- no one expected us to win a lot of games (except a few homers). The scary thing: this team has gotten WORSE over the last 3 games compared to how we started. Look at the first game against NE- it was winnable aside from a few stupid mistakes. Compare that to the 28-6 debacle in the last game. It was the same team, at home instead of on the road, and they destroyed us.

What positions have gotten better? The DL has shown little if any improvement and can't generate a consistent pass rush. Clements is just as bad as he was last year, and now McGee sucks too. Spikes is hampered by injuries and age is catching up with Fletcher. Other than S, this D does not look any better than it did last year. There's some hope because of the youth on this squad, but not a whole lot of it.

On to the offense: JP has regressed over the last few games. Lee Evans looks good. Our big offseason signing on O- Royal- has had 1 big game and 1 decent game out of 7. The OL still sucks and in fact one of the guys brought in has already been benched. Price has had a few big plays but has been inconsistent- same for Josh Reed (although he does seem to have improved on the dropsies). Andre Davis is a waste of a roster spot.

ST: Not bad, but other than the kicker and punter, not nearly as dominant as last year. And they've only generated one big return in 7 games (and they've had a LOT of chances because of how teams have been scoring on us).

Conclusion: the season's half over and we've only noticibly improved at one position over last year. And it looks like we're going to have to spend the off season working on a few positions that we thought were fine (CB, for instance). Yes, this season has been a huge disappointment- not because of the record, but because of the lack of progress.

I think that regression came after the Bears beat us, and now Jauron can't seem to motivate our guys.

We need this game against Green Bay badly - for confidence.

[ublinkwescore]

it's earily similar to last year. In 05, we started off with a strong win against a Houston team that everyone expected to be good. Well, it turned out to be an illusion because Houston sucked, and we went on to get killed by a horrid Oakland team and have a bad season.

In 06, we started with two strong games- a close loss to the Pats and a road win over the Fish. Well, turns out the Fish suck and we went on to lose to a terrible Detroit team...

Anyway, this is off topic.

The point is that only one position has shown progress this year. As fans, we should be very disappointed in a season that will most likely end with double-digit loses all for the sole sake of getting better at S.

If we can continue to get better at one position a year, this team could be competitive in 12-15 seasons! WOO HOO!

You might want to put sarcasm somewhere in that post - someone might call you out on the 12-15 seasons being longer than the average NFL Player's career.

[Patrick76777]

Can you name me one person (QB) who has looked good against Chicago?

I sure as hell can't.

Kitna 23-30 for 230 yards, no picks, no Int’s, Sacked 6 times.

Brad Jonson, 21-31 for 194 yards, no picks, no Int’s Sacked 1 time


Leinart 24-42 for 232 yards and 2 TD’s, 1 Sack and 1 fumble.

None great, but each one better then J-Loss. Even the other guys I left off had better games.

J-Loss – 14-29 for 115 1 TD, 3 Int’s 3 Sacks and a fumble.
-Until the TD drive in garbage time, 11-25 for 95 yards, 3 picks, 3 sacks and a fumble.

[Mr. Cynical]

My 5-11 prediction is becoming more a reality with each passing week.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Hasselbeck 16/35, 196 yards, 0TD, 2 INTs.
Favre 15/29, 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs.

Man these guys suck too. :rolleyes:

[Patrick76777]

My 5-11 prediction is becoming more a reality with each passing week.


I can't find 5 wins on this schedule.

[Patrick76777]

Hasselbeck 16/35, 196 yards, 0TD, 2 INTs.
Favre 15/29, 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs.

Man these guys suck too. :rolleyes:


Anyway, it's not about the Bears game. I actually gave him a pass on that game. But what about the Lions game. and the Pats game at home. Downright awful.

[OpIv37]

Hasselbeck 16/35, 196 yards, 0TD, 2 INTs.
Favre 15/29, 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs.

Man these guys suck too. :rolleyes:

Favre sucks now. He should have hung them up.

[Saratoga Slim]

If I was a Packers fan, I'd agree with you. But as someone who doesn't really care about the Packers' long term plans, I like to see Brett still out there. He's having fun--you see that Lambeau Leap last weekend? He's playing better than he did last year.

[Typ0]

Favre and the pack might be contenders next season. Don't be so quick to write them off.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Anyway, it's not about the Bears game. I actually gave him a pass on that game. But what about the Lions game. and the Pats game at home. Downright awful.
I agree with you on that. Losman didn't have his best games against Detroit and the Pats.

[Typ0]

What about the JETS game?

[Mr. Cynical]

If I was a Packers fan, I'd agree with you. But as someone who doesn't really care about the Packers' long term plans, I like to see Brett still out there. He's having fun--you see that Lambeau Leap last weekend? He's playing better than he did last year.

Favre is not done by any means. He can still chuck it harder than 99% of all the QBs and he is a total leader on the field. He's just straddled with a bad team now and can't carry it like he has in the past. That's caused him to make more mistakes than he normally would have.

As much as I'd like to see him retire a Packer (great history, organization, etc, etc) I'd like to see him to go to a contender next year for one last shot. He embodies all that is good about the NFL.

[Mr. Cynical]

I can't find 5 wins on this schedule.

:doh:

[Elminster]

Overall, it isn't disappointing...how it HAPPENED is disappointing... a promising start and then a three game skid. Oh, and it's not like the Patsies defense is bad or anything...I seem to remember Bellicheck making Manning look like a scrub on a number of occassions. Not giving JP a pass(the fumbling has to stop), but the only not good D he played bad against was the Lions.

I wouldn't write off the Packers game either....we beat the Vikes at home, after all, and I'd say they're better than the Pack....of course, I'd also count them as better than the Jets...but, whatever. You can't be sure about anything with this team...