Bills SHOULD be a borderline playoff team

[patmoran2006]

I dont give a **** what anybody around the league says.. THis team could VERY easily be 5-2 at the bye..

The Bears and 2nd NE game are the only games I've seen we had no business winning.

The Jets game we should've ran away with easily, when your RB rolls for over 150 yards, you flat-out better win... The Lions BEGGED us to win that game but dumb turnover after turnover (and sack after sack) ruined that.. And the first NE game, a couple of questionable calls by Jauron AND the refs, and a pure-******ation safety loss that game as well..

That sounds like 5-2 to me.

This is NOT a bad team.. We have above average WR's (despite what some of you think), we have SOLID Linebackers, pass rushing DE's and a decent-though-maligned secondary..

The OL play has been weak, especially in pass protection and teams are still running on us too easily... And of course, I dont even have to get into the single-biggest problem.

Bears game aside, we've held teams to point totals that were far from being unable to overcome.. I dont think anyone but Chicago has layed 30 on us this year.

This is a GOOD football team with a GOOD nucleus of youngsters (Whitner, SImpson, WIlliams, Evans, McGhaee, Crowell) who are contributing and a few vets (Fletch, Clements, Spikes when the rust wears off) that put this team at worst a .500 team IMO.

If I think they easily could be 5-2 right now (and I aint the only one)-- get a competent QB, a one-gap DT and 1-2 new OL and this is a playoff team next year.

[YardRat]

The offense needs to score more points and sustain more drives.

[PECKERWOOD]

We have a one technique DT in Kyle Williams, he has been improving very nicely. It wouldnt hurt to have another 1 technique DT in the rotation though. However, if JP can pick it up this year and he starts to improve, there is no question this team is atleast a .500 team.

[patmoran2006]

We have a one technique DT in Kyle Williams, he has been improving very nicely. It wouldnt hurt to have another 1 technique DT in the rotation though. However, if JP can pick it up this year and he starts to improve, there is no question this team is atleast a .500 team.
.500 team this year?

[patmoran2006]

We have a one technique DT in Kyle Williams, he has been improving very nicely. It wouldnt hurt to have another 1 technique DT in the rotation though. However, if JP can pick it up this year and he starts to improve, there is no question this team is atleast a .500 team.
If Losman leads this team to five wins in the last nine games, then he buys himself another year in my book.. that would show improvement.

If we dont show some SERIOUS improvement in the second half of the season, his ass needs to be shown the door; and he wont be the only one either.

[PECKERWOOD]

It's a possibility we could go 8-8 this year, not likely but possible. I'm saying if he were to atleast manage the game, we would be 8-8 this year atleast, if he did that all season long, start to finish.

[patmoran2006]

If Losman improves the second half of the season, 5-4 over the last nine isnt too much to ask for.

NOt saying he's the only reason we're 2-5 (though he's the biggest) and IM not saying he's the ONLY player who needs to improve (I count 52 others and about 8 coaches), just saying he's the most IMPORTANT..

[Mr. Pink]

If Losman improves the second half of the season, 5-4 over the last nine isnt too much to ask for.

NOt saying he's the only reason we're 2-5 (though he's the biggest) and IM not saying he's the ONLY player who needs to improve (I count 52 others and about 8 coaches), just saying he's the most IMPORTANT..


And if your aunt had a package, she'd be your uncle.

I'd be very surprised and actually rather po'd if we see this clown play out the season if he plays sunday like he has the past 3 games. Honestly, I'd prefer if he didn't play sunday...but that won't happen. So I can ride it out and hope and pray he suddenly decides he gives two shakes about what's going on out there...let alone decide that protecting the ball is a good idea.

It's getting to be about that time to see what we have in Nall. He may be really good he may not. But at least if he gets in there for a few games this year we have something to gauge him on. AND maybe, just maybe we won't have to go draft a QB in Rd1, try to make some ridiculous trade to get Leftwich or give up compensation to get Schaub.

I was all for giving Losman a chance this whole year...but when you can't show any interest in what's going on then eph you. Get him out of there, hell, Billy Jo Hobert was shown the door for not caring about the team. Why didn't he get a chance? The main reason for me wanting him gone is fumbling due to hitting a ref, the ref makes no attempt to hit you and you can't hold on to the ball? You have HUGE problems.

[TacklingDummy]

The main reason for me wanting him gone is fumbling due to hitting a ref, the ref makes no attempt to hit you and you can't hold on to the ball? You have HUGE problems.

The Ref blindsided JP.

Im starting to wonder if JP has any peripheral vision.

[justasportsfan]

I dont give a **** what anybody around the league says.. THis team could VERY easily be 5-2 at the bye..

The Bears and 2nd NE game are the only games I've seen we had no business winning.

The Jets game we should've ran away with easily, when your RB rolls for over 150 yards, you flat-out better win... The Lions BEGGED us to win that game but dumb turnover after turnover (and sack after sack) ruined that.. And the first NE game, a couple of questionable calls by Jauron AND the refs, and a pure-******ation safety loss that game as well..

That sounds like 5-2 to me.

This is NOT a bad team.. We have above average WR's (despite what some of you think), we have SOLID Linebackers, pass rushing DE's and a decent-though-maligned secondary..

The OL play has been weak, especially in pass protection and teams are still running on us too easily... And of course, I dont even have to get into the single-biggest problem.

Bears game aside, we've held teams to point totals that were far from being unable to overcome.. I dont think anyone but Chicago has layed 30 on us this year.

This is a GOOD football team with a GOOD nucleus of youngsters (Whitner, SImpson, WIlliams, Evans, McGhaee, Crowell) who are contributing and a few vets (Fletch, Clements, Spikes when the rust wears off) that put this team at worst a .500 team IMO.

If I think they easily could be 5-2 right now (and I aint the only one)-- get a competent QB, a one-gap DT and 1-2 new OL and this is a playoff team next year.


Interesting, the guy who said it would take a miracle for us to win 4 games (knowing JP was the starter at that) is *****ing that we don't have a 5-2 record. :huh: make up our mind or eat your crow.

[patmoran2006]

1- I predicted BEFORE the season we'd be 4-12.. and im on pace

2- That was BEFORE the season.. once it started, we shoulda won 4 of our first six games.. Some people exceeded my expectations, J-Loss aint one of them

[SABURZFAN]

the way these guys have played in the last 3 games,they look like a borderline 1st overall pick for the 2007 draft.

[jmb1099]

I dont give a **** what anybody around the league says.. THis team could VERY easily be 5-2 at the bye..

The Bears and 2nd NE game are the only games I've seen we had no business winning.

The Jets game we should've ran away with easily, when your RB rolls for over 150 yards, you flat-out better win... The Lions BEGGED us to win that game but dumb turnover after turnover (and sack after sack) ruined that.. And the first NE game, a couple of questionable calls by Jauron AND the refs, and a pure-******ation safety loss that game as well..

That sounds like 5-2 to me.

This is NOT a bad team.. We have above average WR's (despite what some of you think), we have SOLID Linebackers, pass rushing DE's and a decent-though-maligned secondary..

The OL play has been weak, especially in pass protection and teams are still running on us too easily... And of course, I dont even have to get into the single-biggest problem.

Bears game aside, we've held teams to point totals that were far from being unable to overcome.. I dont think anyone but Chicago has layed 30 on us this year.

This is a GOOD football team with a GOOD nucleus of youngsters (Whitner, SImpson, WIlliams, Evans, McGhaee, Crowell) who are contributing and a few vets (Fletch, Clements, Spikes when the rust wears off) that put this team at worst a .500 team IMO.

If I think they easily could be 5-2 right now (and I aint the only one)-- get a competent QB, a one-gap DT and 1-2 new OL and this is a playoff team next year.
Somewhere, off in the distance, a dead horse is being beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and...

[Dr. Lecter]

Dude, you are way off base. How anybody can think this team shoudl be anywhere near a playoff team is beyond me. I knwo you want to try to make JP look worse than he has played, but this is going too far. Think about the following:

1. This team was 5-11 last year.
2. The team has an entirely new defensive and offensive schemes.
3. The team has had 4-5 rookies getting significant playing time or startingon defense throughout the season.
4. The most talented player is still trying to come back from a signifcant injury and re-injured himself.
5. The offensive line is still full of holes and has new guys playing with one another.
6. The roster itself has 22 new players on it.

I don't know what else to say, but this is clearly a re-building season.

And if you think JP is the biggest problem you are insane.

[patmoran2006]

Dude, you are way off base. How anybody can think this team shoudl be anywhere near a playoff team is beyond me. I knwo you want to try to make JP look worse than he has played, but this is going too far. Think about the following:

1. This team was 5-11 last year.
2. The team has an entirely new defensive and offensive schemes.
3. The team has had 4-5 rookies getting significant playing time or startingon defense throughout the season.
4. The most talented player is still trying to come back from a signifcant injury and re-injured himself.
5. The offensive line is still full of holes and has new guys playing with one another.
6. The roster itself has 22 new players on it.

I don't know what else to say, but this is clearly a re-building season.

And if you think JP is the biggest problem you are insane.

1- Are you telling me that we SHOULDNT very easily be 5-2 right now with a straight face? 5-2 sounds like a borderline playoff team to me.. The Jets were worse than us last year and have less talent this year, yet they ARE a "borderline playoff team". The Saints had the SECOND Pick in the draft and in ONE year in a TOUGHER division they are already a "borderline playoff team"

IM so sick of hearing this rebuilding crap.. Rebuilding is nothing more than an excuse to the fans that your team sucks.

As as for Losman, on a team filled with many problems, he's unquestionably the BIGGEST-- and there you guys go again, putting the SAME value of a quarterback as a second wide reciever or a right guard.

[Dr. Lecter]

They should not have even been in the Pats game to start with.

Look at the comparisons you giving: Neither team had the mess TD left this team with. Not even close. That is were rebuilding comes in. You might not like it, but it is fact. This team is starting all over from the ground up. Neither team had 4-5 rookies playing on defense like the Bills did. Starting 2 rookie safeties in this scheme will cause problems on defense. whether you want to admit it or not. Starting a rookie at DT will do the same. Taking Spikes out and replacing him with a 6th round pick will cause problems. Somehow, I don't think the Saints and Jets have had issues like that.

As for JP, I am not placing the same value on a #2 WR or RG (but thanks for putting the words in my mouth)/ The fact is th O-line as a hole has been bad. It is hysterical that you use the line as the reason for Willis' recent struggles but then turn around and won't attribute JP's struggles to the line.

[patmoran2006]

They should not have even been in the Pats game to start with.

Look at the comparisons you giving: Neither team had the mess TD left this team with. Not even close. That is were rebuilding comes in. You might not like it, but it is fact. This team is starting all over from the ground up. Neither team had 4-5 rookies playing on defense like the Bills did. Starting 2 rookie safeties in this scheme will cause problems on defense. whether you want to admit it or not. Starting a rookie at DT will do the same. Taking Spikes out and replacing him with a 6th round pick will cause problems. Somehow, I don't think the Saints and Jets have had issues like that.

As for JP, I am not placing the same value on a #2 WR or RG (but thanks for putting the words in my mouth)/ The fact is th O-line as a hole has been bad. It is hysterical that you use the line as the reason for Willis' recent struggles but then turn around and won't attribute JP's struggles to the line.

Neither team had the mess that TD left us with? Are you SERIOUS?
umm.. Ok

New York Jets: For starters, the Jets have not one but TWO ROOKIES starting on the offensive line and their now-featured RB is another rookie.. They have a first-year, first-time head coach.. They drafted FOURTH last year, ahead of us which means they obviously sucked... Lets see, they lost a couple of Pro Bowl vets mainly for cap reasons.. you may have heard of Ty Law, Curtis Martin, Kevin Mawae and John Abraham? Oh lets see, they also returned a quarterback who many questioned would ever be able to play effectively again. Yet the Jets are 4-4 and a half-game behind in the Wild Card chase right now.

New Orleans:Quick, name me three starters on their defense.. Not calling you stupid, saying most people can't. They drafted SECOND OVERALL IN the draft and took a RB when they already had Duece. They also have a first-year, first-time coach. THeir leading WR is a rookie who nobody (including me) knew the first thing about. Their starting TE is ****ing Mark Campbell... Their OL is far from a "strength" Yet the Saints are 5-2 and tied with Atlanta (and ahead of Carolina) in what is CLEARLY a much tougher division.

Why is that? could it be... no........Not a chance! Could it be that they have a REAL f'n quarterback???

It doesnt end there.

Tennesee picked ahead of us, yet their headed in the right direction after taking a franchise quarterback.. Vince YOung has two wins in three starts, or about one less than Losman in 15 starts.. Are you trying to tell me that Titatns are MORE talented than the Bills?

Even the Packers and their 90-year old QB are better than they were last year, and they have a ****LOAD of rookie contributors.. Half their WR's are rookies, AJ Hawk is a rookie, they have the WORST PASS defense in the entire NFL, their best WR was kicked out for drugs, and they are 3-4 and seem to be hitting their stride, after drafting three spots ahead of us last year.

Once again it comes down to two simple yet true things
1- Your team aint going ANYWHERE without a real QB. EVERY team I illustrated is LESS talented than Buffalo.

2- "Rebuilding" is the most overated term in all of sport, and its nothing more than an excuse a team uses to try and sell their poor, sucker fans on buying tickets to watch a crap product. But in this case, the Bills aren't crap, they could easily be 5-2, at WORSE 4-3 if they had any semblence of a real quarterback and not a turnover prone, emotional-less TOOL behind center.

[YardRat]

Dude, you are way off base. How anybody can think this team shoudl be anywhere near a playoff team is beyond me. I knwo you want to try to make JP look worse than he has played, but this is going too far. Think about the following:

1. This team was 5-11 last year.
2. The team has an entirely new defensive and offensive schemes.
3. The team has had 4-5 rookies getting significant playing time or startingon defense throughout the season.
4. The most talented player is still trying to come back from a signifcant injury and re-injured himself.
5. The offensive line is still full of holes and has new guys playing with one another.
6. The roster itself has 22 new players on it.

I don't know what else to say, but this is clearly a re-building season.

And if you think JP is the biggest problem you are insane.

Even though what you say is accurate, Doc, just think about. Under those exact circumstances we're one turnover, one play, one good bounce, or one good call from beating the Pats, Jets, and Lions.

Predicting where we may be at this time before the season started, and using your list as an argument, it's not hard to see how they could be 2-5. But, in hindsight and after the games have actually been contested, it's not unreasonable to assume that we could just as easily be 5-2.

[PECKERWOOD]

Teams go from 4-12 one year, to the playoffs the next. That is not uncommon in the NFL, see New Orleans. Furthermore, JP's errors have been magnified for us all to see, that is why he getting so much criticism. All eyes on JP. I bet you when a WR doesnt break off a route to help JP get the ball off when he is being blitzed, nobody mentions that. Nobody mentions that Lee Evans has been our most consistent WR, and with that said he hasnt been too consistent at all. He has picked up alot of his catches and stats in garbage time. Let me also point out, we clearly dont have a run game. It has also been established our OL is no good. So why are we just dishing blame out at JP? Does none of these problems listed affect his game play?

[justasportsfan]

1- I predicted BEFORE the season we'd be 4-12.. and im on pace

2- That was BEFORE the season.. once it started, we shoulda won 4 of our first six games.. Some people exceeded my expectations, J-Loss aint one of them

1, there's a difference between predicting 4-12 and saying "it would take a miracle"

2- who cares. You predicted it and you are most likely to be wrong even with JP at qb. When it doe happen, we'll make sure you'll eat your JP crow. :D

[YardRat]

Nobody, including pat, is holding JP solely and completely responsible, BF. Those that criticize him just aren't willing to excuse him for his mistakes and blame other extenuating circumstances...they're just calling it like it is, and I don't understand why some have a problem with that.

JP, like others on the team that have been singled out over the course of the year, up to this point has been more of a liability than an asset to the team's overall performance and he needs to turn that around.

[Drive 4 Five]

Pat, if I am not mistaken, this past offseason you were bashing Drew Brews, going on and on about how overrated he was...blah...blah...blah...and now he is a "real QB?"

Losman deserves at least one more season before we go and pull the plug on him and consider him a bust. Would I suggest passing up on the No.1 QB prospect in the draft if we have the opportunity? No.

If only for the reason that it is absolutely the most important position in all of football and if you have a chance to draft a really good one, and yopu have questions at the position, then you go for it IMO.

What you don't do, is spend multiple picks on a QB perceived by many as a 'project" the way Donahoe did. Not to say that he didn't get it right, because there is still alot of football games that need to be played before we give up on JP, but right now it isn't looking so good in the eyes of many.

In my eyes, in terms of Losman's development, I think he is right on schedule, and I am not ready to give up on him just yet. So find something else to talk about for once. This whole Losman sucks charade is getting old already.

[patmoran2006]

I HOPE Losman plays the well the second half of the year.. TRUST me, nothing would be better for this franchise to NOT have to go out and spend either big money in FA for a QB, or invest a top 10 pick on a QB. It would be nice to be able to direct the money elsewhere.

But I've seen NOTHING to indicate he's little more than a quarterback who will put up some good numbers 3-4 times per year, flat out lose 6-7 games a year and be a so-what factor in the rest of them..

We'll see over the next nine games, but Im being honest here, and maybe I'm dead wrong and crazy too, but if Losman dont get better quick and he turns the ball over he's gonna get benched before this season is over.

[Mr. Cynical]

This is not a good team no matter how anyone tries to spin it. Too many holes on the team and not good enough leadership/coaching overcome them.

And IMO, it's not rebuilding either. That implies a foundation is being built. What has been done in that regard? Putting aside the blame for a moment - I'm really curious to hear what has been done to build a championship team from the ground up so far.

[jmb1099]

This is not a good team no matter how anyone tries to spin it. Too many holes on the team and not good enough leadership/coaching overcome them.

And IMO, it's not rebuilding either. That implies a foundation is being built. What has been done in that regard? Putting aside the blame for a moment - I'm really curious to hear what has been done to build a championship team from the ground up so far.
The only thing I can think of is the addition of Kyle Williams, Whitner, Simpson, and Youboty. Lee Evans is championship material, we will see about Jason Peters. Coaching staff hasn't had long enough to prove its worth one way or the other, and the jury, in my opnion, is still out on Losman. We need to do an awful lot this coming off season to get to where we need to be.

[Bling]

Coulda shoulda wouldas suck. You could be 1-6 right now if the Dolphins had Harrington in. Second guessing makes sports suck. There really is never any point to it.

[Mr. Cynical]

Coulda shoulda wouldas suck.

Given the Fish suck too, you're right.

[Mr. Pink]

I won't agree with Bling, but we could be 1-6 if marcus robinson caught that long pass from Brad Johnson near the end of the Vikings game too.

[PECKERWOOD]

Nobody, including pat, is holding JP solely and completely responsible, BF. Those that criticize him just aren't willing to excuse him for his mistakes and blame other extenuating circumstances...they're just calling it like it is, and I don't understand why some have a problem with that.

JP, like others on the team that have been singled out over the course of the year, up to this point has been more of a liability than an asset to the team's overall performance and he needs to turn that around.

Actually YardRat, many people are. I criticize JP for his mistakes, but unlike some people I realize that our team isnt exaclty making it easier on him. And I call it like it is all the time, if you think I dont, your not reading my posts.

[jmb1099]

Coulda shoulda wouldas suck. You could be 1-6 right now if the Dolphins had Harrington in. Second guessing makes sports suck. There really is never any point to it.
So does assuming, like assuming the fins would have beat us with harrington in. Only difference in that game is that you take away a couple of sacks and give us about 12 ints instead.

[Statman]

1- I predicted BEFORE the season we'd be 4-12.. and im on pace

2- That was BEFORE the season.. once it started, we shoulda won 4 of our first six games.. Some people exceeded my expectations, J-Loss aint one of them
LOL So which players have exceeded your expectations then?

Seems to me that your expectations must have been pretty low if any Bills have exceeded them.

[Statman]

This is not a good team no matter how anyone tries to spin it. Too many holes on the team and not good enough leadership/coaching overcome them.

And IMO, it's not rebuilding either. That implies a foundation is being built. What has been done in that regard? Putting aside the blame for a moment - I'm really curious to hear what has been done to build a championship team from the ground up so far.
Pretty much it. The rookies are all unknowns or uncertain as to where they will end up in the future and we didn't sign one impact or "foundational" free agent. We just wasted more cap space with signing bonuses on players that aren't going to be around for long.

[don137]

Most games are decided by 7 or 8 plays. Only two games so far this season (home against NE and at Chcago) is the exception. Good teams find a way to win in those games. Unfortunately for this team, those 7-8 plays have cost us 3 losses. The problem is the Bills are not that good so those 7-8 plays usually are to the other teams benefit.

[jimmifli]

They should not have even been in the Pats game to start with.

Look at the comparisons you giving: Neither team had the mess TD left this team with. Not even close. That is were rebuilding comes in. You might not like it, but it is fact. This team is starting all over from the ground up. Neither team had 4-5 rookies playing on defense like the Bills did. Starting 2 rookie safeties in this scheme will cause problems on defense. whether you want to admit it or not. Starting a rookie at DT will do the same. Taking Spikes out and replacing him with a 6th round pick will cause problems. Somehow, I don't think the Saints and Jets have had issues like that.

As for JP, I am not placing the same value on a #2 WR or RG (but thanks for putting the words in my mouth)/ The fact is th O-line as a hole has been bad. It is hysterical that you use the line as the reason for Willis' recent struggles but then turn around and won't attribute JP's struggles to the line.
And yet with all those issues, the Bills almost won those games.

I never understand the compulsion to defend poor performance. You have a long history of it, Dr. Lecter, explain it to me.