The psychology of defending poor performance.

[jimmifli]

Our QB situation has become an interesting study in human psychology.

Most players must prove that they are good to make the roster or win the starting job.

Our QB is in the opposite situation. He will start until he proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he isn't good.

Seems strange to me.

Imagine this situation at your work. Your company installs new boss into a job he's never done before (he managed a small department for a smaller company with mixed results, but he has great credentials). He turns out to be a terrible manager and it's adversely affecting your entire department. By all performance measurables he isn't doing very well.

The guys upstairs want to keep him because he's got some pretty good credentials and he could turn into a great manager someday. They don't want to cut him loose until they are sure he won't work out.

In a real life situation like that how many people would defend their new, poorly performing boss? I bet the answer is almost none.

So my question is what makes us do it with our football team? Why do fans excuse poor performance on the football field that they wouldn't tolerate in their real lives?

[Philagape]

Because it isn't as poor as some people say it is. Simple.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

sorry, not an accurate comparison. its like comparing the performance of a heart surgon with a garbage collecotr... the two dont compute

[jimmifli]

sorry, not an accurate comparison. its like comparing the performance of a heart surgon with a garbage collecotr... the two dont compute

Why not?

[Romes]

JP won the job by preforming better than his competition in camp. He is starting because he is better than any other QB on our roster.

[jimmifli]

sorry, not an accurate comparison. its like comparing the performance of a heart surgon with a garbage collecotr... the two dont compute
Oh it's very poor.

So I guess this is reason number 1.

Denial.

[jimmifli]

JP won the job by preforming better than his competition in camp. He is starting because he is better than any other QB on our roster.
But he's proven to be inadequate sincegetting the job.

In my real life example, most people would want the guys upstairs to try somebody else. Wouldn't they?

[Romes]

But he's proven to be inadequate sincegetting the job.

In my real life example, most people would want the guys upstairs to try somebody else. Wouldn't they?

But he is the best option the guy upstairs has at the moment.

And it appears the guy upstairs thinks the boss should get some more time to prove himself since the boss is still learning on the job.

[jimmifli]

But he is the best option the guy upstairs has at the moment.

And it appears the guy upstairs thinks the boss should get some more time to prove himself since the boss is still learning on the job.
And if your boss was severly underperforming and affecting the entire department, you'd cut him some slack because the guys upstairs want to wait?

[BSXIII]

I've always wondered the same thing myself. For example lets say an offensive guard is underperforming, everyone wants his head on a platter. Regardless of his upside or resume, he’s just a cog in the system who needs to go ASAP. Milloy, Vincent, TKO, Moulds, and Fletcher, to hell with what they’ve done, they are past their prime and need to go. Yet the QB gets coddled and is referred to as “The Kid”, and we can’t do anything to hurt his confidence. Boo away at everyone else, but just support our “Kid”, because he is “the future”.

I don’t get it either.

[Romes]

And if your boss was severly underperforming and affecting the entire department, you'd cut him some slack because the guys upstairs want to wait?

if he is my boss what choice do i have?

[ddaryl]

young QB's need experience, and the journey to gaining experience means you take your lumps.

JP defintiely deserves critisicm, but so does the entire offense. JP is going to get most of this season to prove he can or can't develope. If by game 12 or 13 he's still sucking it up we might see a change, but until then he's going ot be the Bills QB.

[YardRat]

'Optomist' is spelled with an 'i'. 'Optimist'.

[jimmifli]

if he is my boss what choice do i have?
I guess this is reason number 2.


"I have no ability to change things so I will support everything the team does."

I think this is silly. Of course you can't do anything. But when your friends ask about your new boss you aren't going to say "he's young, but he's got potential. Sure he's pretty bad right now and he's hard to work with but if the guys upstairs think he should be boss, who am I to question it"

[Romes]

I guess this is reason number 2.


"I have no ability to change things so I will support everything the team does."

I think this is silly. Of course you can't do anything. But when your friends ask about your new boss you aren't going to say "he's young, but he's got potential. Sure he's pretty bad right now and he's hard to work with but if the guys upstairs think he should be boss, who am I to question it"

I agree that is silly. Where did I say you aren't to question it?

One thing is JP doesn't appear to be hard to work with, so that is a false assesment.

Second, if your Boss is the best option you have, there is no one out there that would do any better. Complain to your friends all you want but at work you can either be divisive or try to do what you can to help him out and make him better.

[jimmifli]

I agree that is silly. Where did I say you aren't to question it?

One thing is JP doesn't appear to be hard to work with, so that is a false assesment.

Second, if your Boss is the best option you have, there is no one out there that would do any better. Complain to your friends all you want but at work you can either be divisive or try to do what you can to help him out and make him better.


His performance has been so bad that maybe it's time to look at how the candidates were judged. If they misread JP by this much, maybe they were looking for the wrong things.

I'd like to see Nall. That doesn't mean we cut JP, it just means he's a backup until he can prove he's good (that's how it works for everybody else).

[Ron Burgundy]

JP is pretty much indefensible at this point.

I don't think Nall's gonna be any good either, though.

[jimmifli]

JP is pretty much indefensible at this point.

I don't think Nall's gonna be any good either, though.

No I'm sure Nall will probably suck too, but he can't be much worse. I'd just like to see if it sparks the team.



So far two reasons have emerged:

Denial.
Blind Loyalty.

The lack of alternative was suggested but I put that down as denial.

[SABURZFAN]

Because it isn't as poor as some people say it is. Simple.


21 passing yards with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter is piss poor.the ONLY reason JP had a TD pass was because evans faked harris out of his jock.

[Ron Burgundy]

No I'm sure Nall will probably suck too, but he can't be much worse. I'd just like to see if it sparks the team.

Sure, why not. I'm ready for next year already.


So far two reasons have emerged:

Denial.
Blind Loyalty.

The lack of alternative was suggested but I put that down as denial.

i.e., no good reason.

[bocephuz]

I work in the investment industry... and if you want to make money you "Buy low and sell high".

There's two styles of investing. Value and Growth.

If you want to play it safe you buy "value" stocks. Stocks of established companies whose value has fallen and for whatever reason the market doesn't see their potential ( see Kelly Holcomb or on the other side of the coin Drew Brees). There's less risk, but usually less room for growth as you are just hoping the performance and share price will get up to the market level it was at before it fell out of favor.

If you want to get rich ( i.e. have a run of 4 or 5 years of playoff appearances and have a chance to win a few super bowls) you buy "growth" stocks ( see John Elway, Kelly, Manning). You do your research, look at the books and at the potential and you pull the trigger based on faith and a feeling... with no real past performance indicators. Accordingly you may end up losing it all. Jim Kramer preaches that you need to be willing to give a stock around 18 months before thinking of cutting it loose.

Using the 18 month stock theory... has had for all intents and purposes 12 months ( 1 full seasons worth of games) to showcase his wares. Give him the rest of the season to get his full year and a half in .. and then we'll know enough to make the buy/ sell call.

[Typ0]

I work in the investment industry... and if you want to make money you "Buy low and sell high".

There's two styles of investing. Value and Growth.

If you want to play it safe you buy "value" stocks. Stocks of established companies whose value has fallen and for whatever reason the market doesn't see their potential ( see Kelly Holcomb or on the other side of the coin Drew Brees). There's less risk, but usually less room for growth as you are just hoping the performance and share price will get up to the market level it was at before it fell out of favor.

If you want to get rich ( i.e. have a run of 4 or 5 years of playoff appearances and have a chance to win a few super bowls) you buy "growth" stocks ( see John Elway, Kelly, Manning). You do your research, look at the books and at the potential and you pull the trigger based on faith and a feeling... with no real past performance indicators. Accordingly you may end up losing it all. Jim Kramer preaches that you need to be willing to give a stock around 18 months before thinking of cutting it loose.

Using the 18 month stock theory... has had for all intents and purposes 12 months ( 1 full seasons worth of games) to showcase his wares. Give him the rest of the season to get his full year and a half in .. and then we'll know enough to make the buy/ sell call.


it's a silly analogy and doesn't work this isn't CAPM...plus he's had over 36 months in the porfolio.

[PECKERWOOD]

I work in the investment industry... and if you want to make money you "Buy low and sell high".

There's two styles of investing. Value and Growth.

If you want to play it safe you buy "value" stocks. Stocks of established companies whose value has fallen and for whatever reason the market doesn't see their potential ( see Kelly Holcomb or on the other side of the coin Drew Brees). There's less risk, but usually less room for growth as you are just hoping the performance and share price will get up to the market level it was at before it fell out of favor.

If you want to get rich ( i.e. have a run of 4 or 5 years of playoff appearances and have a chance to win a few super bowls) you buy "growth" stocks ( see John Elway, Kelly, Manning). You do your research, look at the books and at the potential and you pull the trigger based on faith and a feeling... with no real past performance indicators. Accordingly you may end up losing it all. Jim Kramer preaches that you need to be willing to give a stock around 18 months before thinking of cutting it loose.

Using the 18 month stock theory... has had for all intents and purposes 12 months ( 1 full seasons worth of games) to showcase his wares. Give him the rest of the season to get his full year and a half in .. and then we'll know enough to make the buy/ sell call.

Good read, thats a very genuine perspective my friend. Honestly, JP deserves the whole season, and more IMO. We dont have anyone better, there wont be anyone much better available, unless you want to take another gamble and draft ANOTHER QB which will set us back, ANOTHER 2-4 years. When will people learn? It makes no sense to squander your 'investment', right when its starting to show signs of promise, and improvement.

[Typ0]

Good read, thats a very genuine perspective my friend. Honestly, JP deserves the whole season, and more IMO. We dont have anyone better, there wont be anyone much better available, unless you want to take another gamble and draft ANOTHER QB which will set us back, ANOTHER 2-4 years. When will people learn? It makes no sense to squander your 'investment', right when its starting to show signs of promise, and improvement.


once you buy a stock you pay closer attention to it and get shareholder information. YOu learn more about the company. There also comes a time that you know enough and cut your losses and let some other poor sucker take the brunt of the "risk". Right now, JP Losman has a beta of about six thousand. Since player careers are terminal, and investents aren't, I would say if your going to continue to use this analogy it's point is totally opposite what you want it to be. We're much better off investing in low risk shares at the QB position...time to buy up some utilities.

[PECKERWOOD]

once you buy a stock you pay closer attention to it and get shareholder information. YOu learn more about the company. There also comes a time that you know enough and cut your losses and let some other poor sucker take the brunt of the "risk". Right now, JP Losman has a beta of about six thousand. Since player careers are terminal, and investents aren't, I would say if your going to continue to use this analogy it's point is totally opposite what you want it to be. We're much better off investing in low risk shares at the QB position...time to buy up some utilities.


There also comes a time that you know enough and cut your losses and let some other poor sucker take the brunt of the "risk".

Major flaw in your assessment. What is the reward for cutting JP? He is our best QB on the roster. If you invest so much into a stock, you obviously see it through and you dont cut it loose when there is no reward for doing so. What is your reasoning behind that statement? Furthermore, who is your replacement 'stock'. Sounds to me like another gamble, why take another gamble when you didnt see your last stock through? Not to be a jerk, but I'm glad your not my stockbroker! :D

[Ron Burgundy]

Major flaw in your assessment. What is the reward for cutting JP? He is our best QB on the roster. If you invest so much into a stock, you obviously see it through and you dont cut it loose when there is no reward for doing so. What is your reasoning behind that statement? Furthermore, who is your replacement 'stock'. Sounds to me like another gamble, why take another gamble when you didnt see your last stock through? Not to be a jerk, but I'm glad your not my stockbroker! :D

You gotta cut your losses at some point, otherwise you bleed money until the company you invested in goes out of business.

JP's a fire sale at this point.

[PECKERWOOD]

You gotta cut your losses at some point, otherwise you bleed money until the company you invested in goes out of business.

JP's a fire sale at this point.

I'm not sure if you read anything I said. You cut your losses, and replace him with who? Why even classify JP as a lost cause, when he has improved greatly from last year. Furthermore, why let him loose without even starting a full season yet? And if you are talking about letting him loose after the season is over, why not just spectate and see if improves to your satisfactory by seasons end? I'm failing to see how JP is 'bleeding' the compay dry.

[raphael120]

im just so pissed that nall got the injury during TC, you wonder if he was in the whole time if he wouldve beat JP....but at the same time, Nall and Holcomb do the same drills in practice now, and Nall is behind Holcomb on the depth chart...is the reason that Holcomb was there all during camp and thats just how it goes, or did Holcomb look better than Nall? oh well.

[bocephuz]

Regardless of whether or not you think my theory is silly...Is it valid to count his first year here as anything worthwhile? ( breaking his leg in preseason and getting a few snaps in the New England blowout game)

[PECKERWOOD]

im just so pissed that nall got the injury during TC, you wonder if he was in the whole time if he wouldve beat JP....but at the same time, Nall and Holcomb do the same drills in practice now, and Nall is behind Holcomb on the depth chart...is the reason that Holcomb was there all during camp and thats just how it goes, or did Holcomb look better than Nall? oh well.

Im angry Nall got injured also. I dont think he would of beaten out JP, but he sure would have pressured him more. In the end, that could have been more beneficial to JP's development than we ever know. I like Holcomb as our #2 QB to be perfectly honest, I hope he stays in Buffalo and backs up JP. Nall has some physical gifts, but I think he should be shipped to NFL Europe to develop more as a QB.

[bocephuz]

once you buy a stock you pay closer attention to it and get shareholder information. YOu learn more about the company. There also comes a time that you know enough and cut your losses and let some other poor sucker take the brunt of the "risk". Right now, JP Losman has a beta of about six thousand. Since player careers are terminal, and investents aren't, I would say if your going to continue to use this analogy it's point is totally opposite what you want it to be. We're much better off investing in low risk shares at the QB position...time to buy up some utilities.


Utilities are for retirees and people who've already made their money in the market. They are nice and safe and boring.

If you're young and have a long time horizon you should be buying emerging markets and small caps. And also..how can you have a downside when there hasn't been an upside for 10 years?

[Typ0]

Utilities are for retirees and people who've already made their money in the market. They are nice and safe and boring.

If you're young and have a long time horizon you should be buying emerging markets and small caps. And also..how can you have a downside when there hasn't been an upside for 10 years?


they are for the old because they are closer to death. They are terminal so to speak just as the NFL players career is.

Besides, the bottom line to the market is diversification not going high risk when you can get high rewards. The best portfolios are diversified because CAPM is based on regression modeling and you don't just sum up correlation coefficients to obtain the risk. It's not like risk is a sum of the parts is what I'm trying to say. The nature of the model is the risk factors are all pulling on each other so when you are diversified you actually have less risk. By those standards we either should have kept Bledsoe or Drafted Leinart.

[Typ0]

I'm not sure if you read anything I said. You cut your losses, and replace him with who? Why even classify JP as a lost cause, when he has improved greatly from last year. Furthermore, why let him loose without even starting a full season yet? And if you are talking about letting him loose after the season is over, why not just spectate and see if improves to your satisfactory by seasons end? I'm failing to see how JP is 'bleeding' the compay dry.


I don't think either of you guys are listening. You sink a million dollars into a stock. There comes a time it's only worth 100K and you feel it's going to continue to slide. You sell and take the 900K loss instead of sticking with it and losing the whole 1M. You seem to be saying that since you already spent 1M on the thing that you are bound to stick with it until it pays off or lose everything. Not true. That's not how George Washington defeated the british either.

[Typ0]

Major flaw in your assessment. What is the reward for cutting JP? He is our best QB on the roster. If you invest so much into a stock, you obviously see it through and you dont cut it loose when there is no reward for doing so. What is your reasoning behind that statement? Furthermore, who is your replacement 'stock'. Sounds to me like another gamble, why take another gamble when you didnt see your last stock through? Not to be a jerk, but I'm glad your not my stockbroker! :D


and no one is talking about cutting him right now anyway. I think the question is what's going to happen in training camp next season? Are we going to go in there with this QB roster?

[Typ0]

Regardless of whether or not you think my theory is silly...Is it valid to count his first year here as anything worthwhile? ( breaking his leg in preseason and getting a few snaps in the New England blowout game)

I do think it should be counted for something worthwhile. First of all he prepared for Training camp. Secondly, during the entire time he had all the resources of an NFL franchise at his disposal. Thirdly, he came back 2/3 through the season and was able to practice with the team. That's legitamate practice and study time with an NFL franchise...absolutely nothing like being a college kid. So, at least in my eyes, you cannot discount that time for JP like a lot of us seem to do.

[Jan Reimers]

There is also a psychological issue involved with blaming everything on Losman, or claiming with absolute certainty that he is a bust.

He has not played well. But his O line breaks down often, his receivers - with the exception of Evans - have been mediocre, and the playcalling has been very suspect.

Realistically, none of us know how much of the problem is JP, and how much is due to those other factors. There are too many variables, and to profess to know with certainty what the mix is, also creates interesting psychological questions.

[Romes]

There is also a psychological issue involved with blaming everything on Losman, or claiming with absolute certainty that he is a bust.

He has not played well. But his O line breaks down often, his receivers - with the exception of Evans - have been mediocre, and the playcalling has been very suspect.

Realistically, none of us know how much of the problem is JP, and how much is due to those other factors. There are too many variables, and to profess to know with certainty what the mix is, also creates interesting psychological questions.

:up:

[PECKERWOOD]

and no one is talking about cutting him right now anyway. I think the question is what's going to happen in training camp next season? Are we going to go in there with this QB roster?

It looks that way.. I dont see any other viable options to be honest. Unless you want to draft another QB, in that case we will be rebuilding for another 2-3 years, atleast.. Franchise QB's really dont show up too often in FA. Byron Leftwich may be available, and Trent Green will most likely be available also.. Trent Green is the best QB out of the two, but he is pretty damn old. Byron has youth, and leadership, but has yet to start a full season for the Jaguars and he makes some questionable decisions.

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm not sure if you read anything I said. You cut your losses, and replace him with who? Why even classify JP as a lost cause, when he has improved greatly from last year. Furthermore, why let him loose without even starting a full season yet? And if you are talking about letting him loose after the season is over, why not just spectate and see if improves to your satisfactory by seasons end? I'm failing to see how JP is 'bleeding' the compay dry.

You replace him with anyone. Gotta find somebody better, whether FA or draft.

And if you missed the bleeding, it's happened 5 times this year and that number is likely to double.

[PECKERWOOD]

You replace him with anyone. Gotta find somebody better, whether FA or draft.

And if you missed the bleeding, it's happened 5 times this year and that number is likely to double.

Hrmph. I'm not so sure that replacing our QB with 'anyone' is such a good idea. There really arent that many options through FA, so if you want to go that route, it would be a pretty dumb move, imo. Also, if you want to draft a QB, I wouldnt be totally prejudice against the idea if JP were to fail horribly for the rest of the season. However, when Brady Quinn or Brian Brohm get here, and they are getting sacked a million times a game, fumbling, throwing picks and cant find WR's open, will you be patient with him? Or will you demand for a change again?

[Inetpub]

sorry, not an accurate comparison. its like comparing the performance of a heart surgon with a garbage collecotr... the two dont compute

And JP's what? the Garbage collector? cause he isnt a doctor by anymeans. You need to have a brain for that.

[PECKERWOOD]

And JP's what? the Garbage collector? cause he isnt a doctor by anymeans. You need to have a brain for that.

I guess being a scholar at Tulane isn't good enough for you. Chances are, JP has a much better education than you.

[SABURZFAN]

I guess being a scholar at Tulane isn't good enough for you. Chances are, JP has a much better education than you.


maybe so but he's not much of an NFL QB either.

[jimmifli]

There is also a psychological issue involved with blaming everything on Losman, or claiming with absolute certainty that he is a bust.

He has not played well. But his O line breaks down often, his receivers - with the exception of Evans - have been mediocre, and the playcalling has been very suspect.

Realistically, none of us know how much of the problem is JP, and how much is due to those other factors. There are too many variables, and to profess to know with certainty what the mix is, also creates interesting psychological questions.

This is a false argument. I haven't claimed either.

It isn't all his fault. Who knows if he's a bust? I do know he isn't good enough to be a starting NFL QB right now. Everybody else in the world has to prove they are good before they get the job. Why doesn't Losman?

[Dr. Lecter]

This is a false argument. I haven't claimed either.

It isn't all his fault. Who knows if he's a bust? I do know he isn't good enough to be a starting NFL QB right now. Everybody else in the world has to prove they are good before they get the job. Why doesn't Losman?

I don't think that statement is accurate.

[YardRat]

^ He speaks from experience.

[Inetpub]

I guess being a scholar at Tulane isn't good enough for you. Chances are, JP has a much better education than you.
Theres a 100% chance he doesnt since Im a P.Eng. But then again, If I was paid to throw 4 years of my life down the tube playing for the Buffalo Bills, I'd probably win 50% of my games just on the fact I can hold the BALL!

JP meanwhile is still reading his book on how to hold a ball with 2 hands.

[Romes]

But he's proven to be inadequate sincegetting the job.

In my real life example, most people would want the guys upstairs to try somebody else. Wouldn't they?



This is a false argument. I haven't claimed either.

It isn't all his fault. Who knows if he's a bust? I do know he isn't good enough to be a starting NFL QB right now. Everybody else in the world has to prove they are good before they get the job. Why doesn't Losman?

I don't understand how Jan's post is a false arguement. anyway...

You jump back and forth between these two premises to try and prove your point.

While I agree with Lecter that not everyone has to prove themselves before they get a job. JP cleary did prove he was the best candidate the bills had in TC and the pre-season.

Has he been inadequate since? Well yes, but Jan's post adresses that. The whole offense has been grossly inadequate and blaming it all on Losman is mostly just scapegoating.

[jimmifli]

I don't think that statement is accurate.

Fine. Did you have to prove yourself to get/keep your job?

What would happen to you if you didn't perform? Would your boss have patience?


I'll rephrase it. Most people who are worth anything have to prove they are good to get a job and keep it. The people who are defending Losman in this thread are saying "we admit he's bad now but he might not always be bad. We've got to keep trying until we know he's always going to be bad or he improves." I don't get it.

[jimmifli]

I don't understand how Jan's post is a false arguement. anyway...

You jump back and forth between these two premises to try and prove your point.

While I agree with Lecter that not everyone has to prove themselves before they get a job. JP cleary did prove he was the best candidate the bills had in TC and the pre-season.

Has he been inadequate since? Well yes, but Jan's post adresses that. The whole offense has been grossly inadequate and blaming it all on Losman is mostly just scapegoating.

It's false. Nobody is blaming everything on Losman. There are too many unknowns to assign blame accuratetly. Nobody is calling for him to be cut. I'm merely calling for a designed experiment. Try one of the guys that JP "beat out" and see how they do playing in the same offense.

Since camp, JP has proven to be the worst starting QB in the NFL. His performance is so far outside the realm of acceptable play that it simply demands a change. Not making a change sends a powerful message to every other player in the lockerroom and available free agents for next year. That message is "we don't care about winning this year."

Quite a message to send.

[justasportsfan]

Who knows if he's a bust? I do know he isn't good enough to be a starting NFL QB right now. Everybody else in the world has to prove they are good before they get the job. Does that argument hold true for every drafted player or inexperienced player? Pitts and the giants were wrong in starting Ben and Eli respectively even though they didn't win the job at camp in their rookie year? At least JP beat out his competition at camp to earn the job.

Don't quit your day job Jimmi.

[Inetpub]

Does that argument hold true for every drafted player or inexperienced player? Pitts and the giants were wrong in starting Ben and Eli respectively even though they didn't win the job at camp in their rookie year? At least JP beat out his competition at camp to earn the job.

Don't quit your day job Jimmi.

JP beat out 2 backups. Judging from our QB competition, that really wasnt a select group of QBs. If your going to brag about a QB competition, brag ones that JP wins if it were against ESTABLISHED QBs in the league.

Winning a competition where your only competing vs backup QBs is like the playing chess vs 4 year olds. Your going to have to REALLY screw up to lose because the competition isnt there.

[justasportsfan]

JP beat out 2 backups. Judging from our QB competition, that really wasnt a select group of QBs. If your going to brag about a QB competition, brag ones that JP wins if it were against ESTABLISHED QBs in the league.

Winning a competition where your only competing vs backup QBs is like the playing chess vs 4 year olds. Your going to have to REALLY screw up to lose because the competition isnt there.
it doesn't matter who he beat. That wasn't the point. He said "Everybody else in the world has to prove they are good before they get the job." Since none of them could beat JP at camp, who should've gotten the job then?

[don137]

Losman looked by far the better player in training camp. Nall's injury did not help but when he did play Nall looked awful. I personally do not care who is our QB. I would love for both Losman and Nall to be gems but so far what we have seen is far from it.
Let's face Losman has been a disappointment so far. I really want him to succeed but he has issues that he should be overcoming by now that are not the fault of the OL like locking on to a receiver, holding on to the ball way to long and not being able to handle the ball. I think Losman does need the full season to see if he can overcome those major shortcomings unless they see something in Nall that causes them to warrant playing and if that is the case play him late in the game to see what he can do.
I personally think he will never get it based on what I've seen but I really hope he proves me wrong and deserves the opportunity to do so. The Bills have invested a lot of time and money into Losman so giving him 8 more games to see if he can right the ship is fair.

[Romes]

It's false. Nobody is blaming everything on Losman. There are too many unknowns to assign blame accuratetly. Nobody is calling for him to be cut. I'm merely calling for a designed experiment. Try one of the guys that JP "beat out" and see how they do playing in the same offense.

Since camp, JP has proven to be the worst starting QB in the NFL. His performance is so far outside the realm of acceptable play that it simply demands a change. Not making a change sends a powerful message to every other player in the lockerroom and available free agents for next year. That message is "we don't care about winning this year."

Quite a message to send.

Thats an interesting theory about team psychology but its wrong.

"I've said you won't be successful as an offense or as a team in my opinion if you don't have consistent quarterback play," Evans said. "And shuffling quarterbacks in and out is not consistent play so it's been good for them to be patient and stick with one guy and let us make the plays. It didn't happen early, but it happened (Sunday) and hopefully we can continue to make it happen down the road."

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4362



Sounds too me like in the very least Evans wants to stick with JP. :duel:

[justasportsfan]

Thats an interesting theory about team psychology but its wrong.



Sounds too me like in the very least Evans wants to stick with JP. :duel:"What we're fighting through right now is obvious," Fairchild said. "We're not a real good pass protection team at times. And we're still fighting a little inconsistency here or there and quarterback is one of those things, and we knew that getting into what we were doing. It's going to be a process and hopefully it will all speed up for (J.P.). As those things get better we'll get better. I like our effort, I like our toughness and I like our ability. We've just got to keep plugging away and good things will happen."

this sounds to me that the person in the middle of our O (fairchild) knows that it isn't all JP's fault . But what does he know? The Jp haters like Pat Moran know better who by the way admitted was a huge Fairchild fan.

[Patrick76777]

I work in the investment industry... and if you want to make money you "Buy low and sell high".

There's two styles of investing. Value and Growth.

If you want to play it safe you buy "value" stocks. Stocks of established companies whose value has fallen and for whatever reason the market doesn't see their potential ( see Kelly Holcomb or on the other side of the coin Drew Brees). There's less risk, but usually less room for growth as you are just hoping the performance and share price will get up to the market level it was at before it fell out of favor.

If you want to get rich ( i.e. have a run of 4 or 5 years of playoff appearances and have a chance to win a few super bowls) you buy "growth" stocks ( see John Elway, Kelly, Manning). You do your research, look at the books and at the potential and you pull the trigger based on faith and a feeling... with no real past performance indicators. Accordingly you may end up losing it all. Jim Kramer preaches that you need to be willing to give a stock around 18 months before thinking of cutting it loose.

Using the 18 month stock theory... has had for all intents and purposes 12 months ( 1 full seasons worth of games) to showcase his wares. Give him the rest of the season to get his full year and a half in .. and then we'll know enough to make the buy/ sell call.


JP = Penny Stocks! Worthless!

[Ron Burgundy]

Hrmph. I'm not so sure that replacing our QB with 'anyone' is such a good idea. There really arent that many options through FA, so if you want to go that route, it would be a pretty dumb move, imo. Also, if you want to draft a QB, I wouldnt be totally prejudice against the idea if JP were to fail horribly for the rest of the season. However, when Brady Quinn or Brian Brohm get here, and they are getting sacked a million times a game, fumbling, throwing picks and cant find WR's open, will you be patient with him? Or will you demand for a change again?

If the new guy shows any signs of life at all, that'd be an improvement.

If he has the same lack of pocket presence and football smarts as JP, you're damn right I'll want a change again. I want a good quarterback. I think we all do. It's just that some people have trouble recognizing a turd, even when it's smeared all over their faces. So to speak.