JP Showed Improvement

[PECKERWOOD]

I know these JP threads are getting a little old, but I just want to hear a fair assesment from other board members, here is mine:

Positives:

JP Losman did not put up mind boggling stats against GB. But his progress is indisputable. Usually we see a million fumbles with an interception, and atleast yesterday he didnt turnover the ball. That is key, imo. As long as JP doesn't turn the ball over, like he did in the past, I will consider that improvement.

105 yards passing and 1 TD. Just enough to win the game. That's called managing the football game. He didn't kill us with bad play, he did just enough to win. Hopefully, this can carry over against Indy..

Lastly, I actually saw emotion out of JP. When he got sacked he slammed the ball down on the turf, usually he would just sit there emotionless. He did celebrate with Evans after the TD. If there is any seperation between JP and the rest of the team, I dont see it.

Negatives:

JP didnt capitilize on our Defense's turnovers, nor did he capitilize on ST's play. How many turnovers did our defense create? 2-3? McGee brought the opening kick to the 40 ( I predicted it to goto the house :D , CLOSE!), yet it only resulted in a field goal. Honestly, thats what seperates Buffalo from the elite teams, imo. Good teams win by capitilizing on plays like that, and other teams mistakes.

He is still getting sacked a little too much, however, atleast he didnt cough up the football like he did in the past..


Is this a fair assesment to you all? Did anyone else see improvement?

[LtBillsFan66]

Great he didn't fumble. Regarding no ints, he threw only 15 passes.

I didn't see any improvement. He still looks uncomfortable. He also sits by himself on the bench instead of consulting with his teammates.

[justasportsfan]

I thought he moved sideways.

The thing I was happy to see was that he showed emotion.

[Inetpub]

Nope. I just saw the JP of the Vikes game. Defense stood up and won it for us.
No fumbles and 1 interception with a measly 102 yards is nothing to celebrate about.

The win, yep. Im glad they won but JP and his 7 consecutive series of 3 and out didnt look good by any means.

[BidsJr]

I know these JP threads are getting a little old, but I just want to hear a fair assesment from other board members, here is mine:

Positives:

JP Losman did not put up mind boggling stats against GB. But his progress is indisputable. Usually we see a million fumbles with an interception, and atleast yesterday he didnt turnover the ball. That is key, imo. As long as JP doesn't turn the ball over, like he did in the past, I will consider that improvement.

105 yards passing and 1 TD. Just enough to win the game. That's called managing the football game. He didn't kill us with bad play, he did just enough to win. Hopefully, this can carry over against Indy..

Lastly, I actually saw emotion out of JP. When he got sacked he slammed the ball down on the turf, usually he would just sit there emotionless. He did celebrate with Evans after the TD. If there is any seperation between JP and the rest of the team, I dont see it.

Negatives:

JP didnt capitilize on our Defense's turnovers, nor did he capitilize on ST's play. How many turnovers did our defense create? 2-3? McGee brought the opening kick to the 40 ( I predicted it to goto the house :D , CLOSE!), yet it only resulted in a field goal. Honestly, thats what seperates Buffalo from the elite teams, imo. Good teams win by capitilizing on plays like that, and other teams mistakes.

He is still getting sacked a little too much, however, atleast he didnt cough up the football like he did in the past..


Is this a fair assesment to you all? Did anyone else see improvement?

I think it is partially fair.

But for JP to look like Manning and Brady, it will take a lot more than just JP improving.

You cannot look at JP without looking at the rest of the picture. That is where most peoples opinions just fall to pieces.

JP is pretty bad right now, but he ain't the only one.

[OpIv37]

I saw the same **** I've seen from him the last two weeks, with the exception of the fact that he protected the ball better.

He hit Royal in the feet on a short pass. He underthrew Evans twice (although one did go for a TD). And he seems to be making decisions too slowly. Granted the OL isn't giving him a lot of time, but by the time he figures out where to go with the ball, either the receiver's covered or there is too much pressure. He also decides to move out of the pocket too late.

[LtBillsFan66]

I thought he moved sideways.

The thing I was happy to see was that he showed emotion.
Walking to the sidelines with his head down is showing emotion, but it's detrimental to the team.

[PECKERWOOD]

Great he didn't fumble. Regarding no ints, he threw only 15 passes.

I didn't see any improvement. He still looks uncomfortable. He also sits by himself on the bench instead of consulting with his teammates.

Really? I saw Fowler help JP up after a sack, and I saw him chatting with Evan's and Fowler on the bench. Furthermore, he celebrated with Evans after the TD. I really dont see the division you are talking about.

Also, 15 passes and a TD. That is called managing the game. It is evident to all of us, JP didnt WIN the game for us, he simply didnt lose it for us.

[PECKERWOOD]

He committed no turnovers, and managed the game. Can we all agree that, he did improve from last week?

[justasportsfan]

Walking to the sidelines with his head down is showing emotion, but it's detrimental to the team.
Nope, even if it's a pissed off emotion, it's better than the skippy emotion that Rob Johnson had everytime he got sacked.

[PECKERWOOD]

I think it is partially fair.

But for JP to look like Manning and Brady, it will take a lot more than just JP improving.

You cannot look at JP without looking at the rest of the picture. That is where most peoples opinions just fall to pieces.

JP is pretty bad right now, but he ain't the only one.

JP Losman will never be a Manning or Brady, nor will 99.9% of the QB's in the league. I do agree that JP is still pretty bad, I'm just saying I saw emotions and improvement. He was dead the last few weeks, atleast this week he actually had a pulse.

[BidsJr]

JP Losman will never be a Manning or Brady, nor will 99.9% of the QB's in the league. I do agree that JP is still pretty bad, I'm just saying I saw emotions and improvement. He was dead the last few weeks, atleast this week he actually had a pulse.

You totally missed my point.

Brady and Manning would not look like Brady and Manning on this team right now.

[justasportsfan]

He also sits by himself on the bench instead of consulting with his teammates.


I was paying attention to this very same thing especially since Pat Moran brought it up.

Farve get's sacked, none of his teammates came to his aid and Schobel instead helps him up.

Damn, Farve's teammates hate him too.

[PECKERWOOD]

You totally missed my point.

Brady and Manning would not look like Brady and Manning on this team right now.

In those words, I agree with you.. Alot of people are talking about how he was underthrowing the recievers, alot of that was due to pressure, imo.

[Philagape]

Nope. I just saw the JP of the Vikes game. Defense stood up and won it for us.
No fumbles and 1 interception with a measly 102 yards is nothing to celebrate about.

The win, yep. Im glad they won but JP and his 7 consecutive series of 3 and out didnt look good by any means.

What interception?

[Philagape]

And JP was excellent in the Vikes game. 72 percent, 224 yards, in addition to no turnovers. He was a big reason we won that game.

[Earthquake Enyart]

We punted the ball 8 times with five 3 and outs.

Brian Moorman "managed the game", not JP.

[Philagape]

Great he didn't fumble. Regarding no ints, he threw only 15 passes.

Notice how his critics bring up the 15 attempts when it suits their biases, but not when they complain about the yardage.


I didn't see any improvement. He still looks uncomfortable. He also sits by himself on the bench instead of consulting with his teammates.

Unless someone watches him EVERY SINGLE SECOND OF THE GAME, any posts about what he does on the bench are :bs: :poop: :flush:

[PECKERWOOD]

We punted the ball 8 times with five 3 and outs.

Brian Moorman "managed the game", not JP.

To play Devil's advocate here.. Nobody, said he played good. I'm just noting that he did improve from last week, and he did 'manage' the game. There is a HUGE difference between managing the game, and winning the game for your team. He did just enough to win, and didnt make big mistakes to lose us the game.

[PECKERWOOD]

Notice how his critics bring up the 15 attempts when it suits their biases, but not when they complain about the yardage.



Unless someone watches him EVERY SINGLE SECOND OF THE GAME, any posts about what he does on the bench are :bs: :poop: :flush:

Well, they did show a little clip of JP talking to Fowler and Evans on the bench right before commercial break..

[Earthquake Enyart]

To play Devil's advocate here.. Nobody, said he played good. I'm just noting that he did improve from last week, and he did 'manage' the game. There is a HUGE difference between managing the game, and winning the game for your team. He did just enough to win, and didnt make big mistakes to lose us the game.
Our longest "drive" was 30 yards. Our 3 scores came when we started at the Packer 27, 29, and 33. The Packers had 6 drives longer than our longest.

Moorman did more to win the game than JP did.

[PECKERWOOD]

Our longest "drive" was 30 yards. Our 3 scores came when we started at the Packer 27, 29, and 33. The Packers had 6 drives longer than our longest.

Moorman did more to win the game than JP did.
Yes, that is called managing the game. Just enough to win, no turnovers? Where am I wrong?

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh yeah, JP has improved tremendously from last year. See for yourself.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>2005</TD><TD align=left>BUF</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>228</TD><TD>49.6</TD><TD>1340</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>58</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>64.9</TD></TR><!--teamId2=2--><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=left>BUF</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>212</TD><TD>61.3</TD><TD>1415</TD><TD>6.7</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>80.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

He has improved in every category. He is still growing.

[Romes]

Our longest "drive" was 30 yards. Our 3 scores came when we started at the Packer 27, 29, and 33. The Packers had 6 drives longer than our longest.

Moorman did more to win the game than JP did.

Did Losman win the game for us? By no stretch of the imagination.

Did Losman improve over the last 2 weeks? Yes.

[bflojohn]

One play, just one play that I think points up the first half performance. The throw down the sideline to Robert Royal that he DROPPED at the Packers 35 yard line approx., and on replay, there wasn't a Packer in the same zip code!! If he manages to corrale that pass, he is running to, at least, the 20 yard line! Suddenly, JP and friends are in the redzone threatening to take a 17-0 lead!! I didn't think that JP came out and played badly in the first half, actually some of his throws were bullets! The throw to Evans, that was indeed underthrown, also hit Lee in the hands when I looked at it in slo-mo. Al Harris "might" have gotten a pinky on it, but the ball fell into the hands of Lee Evans, IMO.

[PECKERWOOD]

One play, just one play that I think points up the first half performance. The throw down the sideline to Robert Royal that he DROPPED at the Packers 35 yard line approx., and on replay, there wasn't a Packer in the same zip code!! If he manages to corrale that pass, he is running to, at least, the 20 yard line! Suddenly, JP and friends are in the redzone threatening to take a 17-0 lead!! I didn't think that JP came out and played badly in the first half, actually some of his throws were bullets! The throw to Evans, that was indeed underthrown, also hit Lee in the hands when I looked at it in slo-mo. Al Harris "might" have gotten a pinky on it, but the ball fell into the hands of Lee Evans, IMO.

I remember that pass to Royal perfectly now that you brought it up. Glad you pointed that out. How come nobody talks about dropped passes, but only the underthrown balls?

[LtBillsFan66]

Oh yeah, JP has improved tremendously from last year. See for yourself.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>2005</TD><TD align=left>BUF</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>228</TD><TD>49.6</TD><TD>1340</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>58</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>64.9</TD></TR><!--teamId2=2--><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=left>BUF</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>130</TD><TD>212</TD><TD>61.3</TD><TD>1415</TD><TD>6.7</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>80.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

He has improved in every category. He is still growing.
Great. He'll be great in 20 years. :up:

[Inetpub]

What interception?
Whoops meant TD.

LOL.

[The last buffalo fan]

Underthrown balls to Evans, were avoiding sacks, DE running in his front/back, and with his foot barely planted on the ground.

A win is a win. Go Bills!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PECKERWOOD]

Great. He'll be great in 20 years. :up:

Those stats are respectable man. If he can keep up the progress, and minimize fumbles and interceptions, we have a good QB on our hands. He is on pace to throw for around 2,850 yards and 18 TD's - 17 INT's. That isnt bad for someone who is starting his first full season.

P.S. I know stats dont show everything, he needs to keep the sacks and fumbles down also, if he is going to succeed.

[DynaPaul]

I don't know about you guys but I don't think JP showed any improvement at all. Sure, he had no turnovers but he really didn't make any plays except for the TD to Evans. His numbers sucked and he's still jerking around in the pocket and not making quicker throws. Plus he's under or over throwing some of the guys. To me it looks like he's about the same as he was earlier in the season.

[patmoran2006]

I know these JP threads are getting a little old, but I just want to hear a fair assesment from other board members, here is mine:

Positives:

JP Losman did not put up mind boggling stats against GB. But his progress is indisputable. Usually we see a million fumbles with an interception, and atleast yesterday he didnt turnover the ball. That is key, imo. As long as JP doesn't turn the ball over, like he did in the past, I will consider that improvement.

105 yards passing and 1 TD. Just enough to win the game. That's called managing the football game. He didn't kill us with bad play, he did just enough to win. Hopefully, this can carry over against Indy..

Lastly, I actually saw emotion out of JP. When he got sacked he slammed the ball down on the turf, usually he would just sit there emotionless. He did celebrate with Evans after the TD. If there is any seperation between JP and the rest of the team, I dont see it.

Negatives:

JP didnt capitilize on our Defense's turnovers, nor did he capitilize on ST's play. How many turnovers did our defense create? 2-3? McGee brought the opening kick to the 40 ( I predicted it to goto the house :D , CLOSE!), yet it only resulted in a field goal. Honestly, thats what seperates Buffalo from the elite teams, imo. Good teams win by capitilizing on plays like that, and other teams mistakes.

He is still getting sacked a little too much, however, atleast he didnt cough up the football like he did in the past..


Is this a fair assesment to you all? Did anyone else see improvement?

When you're considered improving by not running into the ref and fumbling, that's not much of a standard..

He almost got BOO'd out of his OWN stadium, and had he not completed a pass to a WIDE OPEN Evans, talk shows would be filled with callers wanting him to go directly to the bench..

SHould I take the couple dozens Homers word on that? Or should I listen to about the 50,000 fans in the stadium who were booing him like he was Dan Marino at the Ralph.

Fans are fed up with his ******ed play.. and dont tell me its common, bills fans are VERY loyal and knowledgable. Everybody knows that.

[justasportsfan]

When you're considered improving by not running into the ref and fumbling, that's not much of a standard..

He almost got BOO'd out of his OWN stadium, and had he not completed a pass to a WIDE OPEN Evans, talk shows would be filled with callers wanting him to go directly to the bench..

SHould I take the couple dozens Homers word on that? Or should I listen to about the 50,000 fans in the stadium who were booing him like he was Dan Marino at the Ralph.

Fans are fed up with his ******ed play.. and dont tell me its common, bills fans are VERY loyal and knowledgable. Everybody knows that.
speak for yourself when you say we are fed up.

[The_Philster]

One thing I noticed that no one brought up (and considering he only had 15 pass attempts I don't see how it got overlooked...the screen pass to Shelton...he's been awful putting touch on those short passes..he did a good job on that on that pass. One pass doesn't make a turnaround, but I found it to be an encouraging thing
bills fans are VERY loyal and knowledgable. Everybody knows that.some are, some aren't. If a fan yells for JP to throw the ball before he evengets back in his pass drop, would you call that a knowledgeable fan?

[Risin]

He almost got BOO'd out of his OWN stadium

How old are you?

I don't have enough fingers to count how many times Jim Kelly was boo'd in that same stadium.

Bills fans can be morons.

[PECKERWOOD]

When you're considered improving by not running into the ref and fumbling, that's not much of a standard..

He almost got BOO'd out of his OWN stadium, and had he not completed a pass to a WIDE OPEN Evans, talk shows would be filled with callers wanting him to go directly to the bench..

SHould I take the couple dozens Homers word on that? Or should I listen to about the 50,000 fans in the stadium who were booing him like he was Dan Marino at the Ralph.

Fans are fed up with his ******ed play.. and dont tell me its common, bills fans are VERY loyal and knowledgable. Everybody knows that.

First off, its about half and half. The majority can be wrong and the minority can be right, thats hypothetically speaking, seeing as how not everyone wants to bench JP. Even most bashers know that JP is our best chance at winning.

Did you see what happened after JP got booed? Yeah, a 50+ yard TD pass to Evans, WHILE GETTING HIT. I'm sorry, I cant knock a guy for being resilient, if you didnt think JP would take his lumps this year, you probably dont know much about football.

Any QB that does not lose the game for his team, and manages for the win, is a good QB in my book. One thing all of the better QB's in the game have in common, they managed games.

I feel like I am fair with JP, so I dont appreciate being called a homer. I just realize the importance of patience, and in the real world, we all need some extra time to grow. But I ask you, JP didnt lose us the game, he managed a win, why do you still continue to throw rocks at the guy, even after victory?

[YardRat]

I was really glad to see Simpson get that INT...hopefully Whitner gets one next week against Manning.

[patmoran2006]

We punted the ball 8 times with five 3 and outs.

Brian Moorman "managed the game", not JP.

Exactly... Moorman managed the game, not that fool.

IF your going to judge a QB on if he doesnt fumble or throw a ****load of interceptions, which he's not SUPPOSED to do.. thats sad.

Our defense was exceptional, Fletch and Tripplett were monsters, Moorman was clutch.. Losman had NOTHING To do with our win..

[patmoran2006]

First off, its about half and half. The majority can be wrong and the minority can be right, thats hypothetically speaking, seeing as how not everyone wants to bench JP. Even most bashers know that JP is our best chance at winning.

Did you see what happened after JP got booed? Yeah, a 50+ yard TD pass to Evans, WHILE GETTING HIT. I'm sorry, I cant knock a guy for being resilient, if you didnt think JP would take his lumps this year, you probably dont know much about football.

Any QB that does not lose the game for his team, and manages for the win, is a good QB in my book. One thing all of the better QB's in the game have in common, they managed games.

I feel like I am fair with JP, so I dont appreciate being called a homer. I just realize the importance of patience, and in the real world, we all need some extra time to grow. But I ask you, JP didnt lose us the game, he managed a win, why do you still continue to throw rocks at the guy, even after victory?

ya I did see what happened after the fans nearly boo'd Losman out of the stadium (several times).. Lee Evans ran a double move and went deep.. Al Harris played a soft zone while Woodson was in a middle zone when he shoulda been deep.. So Lee Evans was open by oh say.. 20 yards.

Losman in the meanwhile, didnt show reslience.. He got ****ing hit when he threw the ball because he threw it late, like SECONDS after Evans was already open deep.

Losman did NOT manage the win.. THe defense MANAGED the win.. Moorman managed the win.. A-Train moved the chains in the fourth quarter.

How many first downs did we get via the pass the entire game? One in the second half and that was the wide-open TD..

in fact, I'm surprised someone on the defense didnt kick him in the nuts after our 10,000 3-and-outs..

But here's where I'll be fair to Losman.. His WR run **** routes and do him nor Evans any favors.. NOBODY could get open and that was against a SAD pass defense... the OL pass protection at times is horrendous... So I dont think he's getting a total fair shake..

I still am in shock that loyal Bills fans would boo the **** out of him like that.. If that dont tell you something I dont know what will.... If Clements dotn make a play on that ball and the Bills lose that game.. Losman would've got ran out of town..

[PECKERWOOD]

ya I did see what happened after the fans nearly boo'd Losman out of the stadium (several times).. Lee Evans ran a double move and went deep.. Al Harris played a soft zone while Woodson was in a middle zone when he shoulda been deep.. So Lee Evans was open by oh say.. 20 yards.

Losman in the meanwhile, didnt show reslience.. He got ****ing hit when he threw the ball because he threw it late, like SECONDS after Evans was already open deep.

Losman did NOT manage the win.. THe defense MANAGED the win.. Moorman managed the win.. A-Train moved the chains in the fourth quarter.

How many first downs did we get via the pass the entire game? One in the second half and that was the wide-open TD..

in fact, I'm surprised someone on the defense didnt kick him in the nuts after our 10,000 3-and-outs..

But here's where I'll be fair to Losman.. His WR run **** routes and do him nor Evans any favors.. NOBODY could get open and that was against a SAD pass defense... the OL pass protection at times is horrendous... So I dont think he's getting a total fair shake..

I still am in shock that loyal Bills fans would boo the **** out of him like that.. If that dont tell you something I dont know what will.... If Clements dotn make a play on that ball and the Bills lose that game.. Losman would've got ran out of town..

Did you ever take into consideration that maybe our run game opened up in the 4th because Losman started making plays through the air?

Losman was getting pressured ALL GAME. He had a rookie RT protecting him, and a washed up vet at RG in Villarial. Why do you think our coaching staff was avoiding involving our right side of the OL? Because they STINK. You also fail to mention how Kampman is leading the league with sacks, and KGB isn't that far behind.

I saw Losman underthrowing footballs, no doubt about that, however, he was getting considerable ammounts of pressure.



But here's where I'll be fair to Losman.. His WR run **** routes and do him nor Evans any favors.. NOBODY could get open and that was against a SAD pass defense... the OL pass protection at times is horrendous... So I dont think he's getting a total fair shake..


You admit he isnt getting a fair shake. The only good reciever we have is Evans, and you damn well know it. A horrendous OL, like you mentioned and WR's that cant get open, how do you expect a QB to succeed? That's an honest question.

[patmoran2006]

Did you ever take into consideration that maybe our run game opened up in the 4th because Losman started making plays through the air?

Losman was getting pressured ALL GAME. He had a rookie RT protecting him, and a washed up vet at RG in Villarial. Why do you think our coaching staff was avoiding involving our right side of the OL? Because they STINK. You also fail to mention how Kampman is leading the league with sacks, and KGB isn't that far behind.

I saw Losman underthrowing footballs, no doubt about that, however, he was getting considerable ammounts of pressure.



You admit he isnt getting a fair shake. The only good reciever we have is Evans, and you damn well know it. A horrendous OL, like you mentioned and WR's that cant get open, how do you expect a QB to succeed? That's an honest question.
Managing a game consists of a lot more than just NOT turning the ball over.. Managing the game is about moving the chains, giving your defense a rest.. Putting the choke on a team on life support.. We did NONE Of that.

HOw many yards did Green have in the second half? He had them cause our defense was in there every FOURTH play because we couldnt even get a first down.

AS for the rest of our offense your right.. A lot of them are NOT good enough.. MAJOR and I mean MAJOR changes need to be taken this offseason.

our defense has 4-5 new starters on this year from the year before.. And trust me if we're gonig to be a contender, the same better be done with the offense.. I can guarentee you marv is going to make major changes offensively, he's a smart man and he knows.

Next year, you'll see a new QB (and probably not a rookie either), a new #2 WR (bigger and stronger over the middle) and at LEAST 2 new OL (RT and RG) if not three.

its the ONLY way we'll be consistently competitive.. take out the TRASH..
Losman, Price, Villarrial, Pennington- NONE will be starting next year.

[PECKERWOOD]

Managing a game consists of a lot more than just NOT turning the ball over.. Managing the game is about moving the chains, giving your defense a rest.. Putting the choke on a team on life support.. We did NONE Of that.

HOw many yards did Green have in the second half? He had them cause our defense was in there every FOURTH play because we couldnt even get a first down.

AS for the rest of our offense your right.. A lot of them are NOT good enough.. MAJOR and I mean MAJOR changes need to be taken this offseason.

our defense has 4-5 new starters on this year from the year before.. And trust me if we're gonig to be a contender, the same better be done with the offense.. I can guarentee you marv is going to make major changes offensively, he's a smart man and he knows.

Next year, you'll see a new QB (and probably not a rookie either), a new #2 WR (bigger and stronger over the middle) and at LEAST 2 new OL (RT and RG) if not three.

its the ONLY way we'll be consistently competitive.. take out the TRASH..
Losman, Price, Villarrial, Pennington- NONE will be starting next year.




our defense has 4-5 new starters on this year from the year before.. And trust me if we're gonig to be a contender, the same better be done with the offense.. I can guarentee you marv is going to make major changes offensively, he's a smart man and he knows.


Agreed.



HOw many yards did Green have in the second half? He had them cause our defense was in there every FOURTH play because we couldnt even get a first down.


How much of this is to blame on Losman? Does he deserve all the blame for this? We have bad recievers and a horrible OL, how much do you expect?



Next year, you'll see a new QB (and probably not a rookie either), a new #2 WR (bigger and stronger over the middle) and at LEAST 2 new OL (RT and RG) if not three.


I wont act like I can see the future, because I cant. I dont know for certain if Losman will be here, or he wont be here. However, he did manage the game against GB and thats all I was judging, not his previous games.

As for the OL goes.. We need a new RT for sure. I however, saw a lot of promise in Merz and I think he could be a quality starter.


Managing a game consists of a lot more than just NOT turning the ball over.. Managing the game is about moving the chains, giving your defense a rest.. Putting the choke on a team on life support.. We did NONE Of that.

Managing the game in my eyes, is not losing the game. Not committing turnovers by any means.. And winning the football game. He started to come through in 4th quarter.. And like I said before, his play wasnt good but just enough to manage a win. Alot of people like to point out stats to benefit them at certain times, and say yards, pct and td's dont matter, its the W or L that matters the most. And I agree, Losman came through with a win, and most credit is obviously due to defense and special teams, but with that said our offense didnt give up the football, which would of killed us.

[patmoran2006]

Managing the game in my eyes, is not losing the game. Not committing turnovers by any means.. And winning the football game. He started to come through in 4th quarter.. And like I said before, his play wasnt good but just enough to manage a win. Alot of people like to point out stats to benefit them at certain times, and say yards, pct and td's dont matter, its the W or L that matters the most. And I agree, Losman came through with a win, and most credit is obviously due to defense and special teams, but with that said our offense didnt give up the football, which would of killed us.

In my eyes, managing a game is not making your defense go to the sidelines for about a minute and a half and having to come out.. JP didnt manage ****, Farve "managed" to 100% blow the game entirely.

BUt Im' not sure your understanding when I say that its NOT ALL Losman's fault.. Our line is wack and our WR's dont get open often enough...

Again, your either part of the problem or part of the solution.. If your part of the solution (Evans, Peters, Fowler, Peters, Maybe Gandy, maybe Merz, McGahee) then you build towards getting better.

If your part of the problem (Losman, Villarrial, Right Tackle, Price/Reed-- as starters)-- then you ship their ass out and bring in better players at EACH spot to combine with an improving defense to give the team a fighting chance to be good in 2007.

[Mr. Pink]

Managing the game effectively includes controlling the clock and limiting chances for the opposition to score.

You don't manage the game well when you only have the ball for 25 minutes on offense!

You don't manage the game well when the opposition has 31 more plays than you do.

You don't manage the game well when the opposition has 240 more yards than you.

And you sure as hell don't manage the game well when you go 2 for 11 on 3rd downs.

[PECKERWOOD]

In my eyes, managing a game is not making your defense go to the sidelines for about a minute and a half and having to come out.. JP didnt manage ****, Farve "managed" to 100% blow the game entirely.

BUt Im' not sure your understanding when I say that its NOT ALL Losman's fault.. Our line is wack and our WR's dont get open often enough...

Again, your either part of the problem or part of the solution.. If your part of the solution (Evans, Peters, Fowler, Peters, Maybe Gandy, maybe Merz, McGahee) then you build towards getting better.

If your part of the problem (Losman, Villarrial, Right Tackle, Price/Reed-- as starters)-- then you ship their ass out and bring in better players at EACH spot to combine with an improving defense to give the team a fighting chance to be good in 2007.

Agree, with that assesment other than Losman being a problem. I dont see how you can determine that.. Why not wait till' the end of the season untill making such conclusions? Alot of things can change between now and then, good or bad. Losman is like a roller coaster, his play is up one week and down another, really I can understand why he has turned some posters bipolar (ICE!!..). I just think that we should wait untill the season is done with, and then look back and examine his play as a whole. I hope everybody is patient and considerate while doing this. If he were to play out the rest of this season, its his first full year as a starter.. His projected stats are respectable, close to 3,000 yards passing and 18tds with 17 ints. That isnt bad, by no stretch of the imagination. Just imagine what would happen if we got a decent OL around him..

[patmoran2006]

1- Its not his stats that I have a problem with, I said that all along.

2- I've seen VERY LIttle good playmaking ability other than the Minnesota game, when I thought he played brilliantly

My opinion is only MY opinion..Thats the beauty of a message board, we dont have to agree... Of course he could turn it around...Every now and then he shows a "sign" that he can be good.... I just personally think he's a turd and my team will be better off with a competent QB... It is my opinion that at best he's a 5-6 win QB in this league; and I've seen enough in "only" 16 starts now to base a judgement on it.

[PECKERWOOD]

Managing the game effectively includes controlling the clock and limiting chances for the opposition to score.

You don't manage the game well when you only have the ball for 25 minutes on offense!

You don't manage the game well when the opposition has 31 more plays than you do.

You don't manage the game well when the opposition has 240 more yards than you.

And you sure as hell don't manage the game well when you go 2 for 11 on 3rd downs.

So your saying Favre managed the game better than Losman then? If your going to look at stats he played a much better game than Losman. 300+ yards with a TD and 2 INT's. He sure drove the ball down the field, yet he didnt win the game.. He gave up the ball at crucial times, and Losman didnt do that. That's managing the game, imo.

[PECKERWOOD]

1- Its not his stats that I have a problem with, I said that all along.

2- I've seen VERY LIttle good playmaking ability other than the Minnesota game, when I thought he played brilliantly

My opinion is only MY opinion..Thats the beauty of a message board, we dont have to agree... Of course he could turn it around...Every now and then he shows a "sign" that he can be good.... I just personally think he's a turd and my team will be better off with a competent QB... It is my opinion that at best he's a 5-6 win QB in this league; and I've seen enough in "only" 16 starts now to base a judgement on it.

I respect your opinion, as I think you respect mine. However, thats why the message board is here, for healthy debate.

[Mr. Pink]

Neither QB managed the game properly....Losman couldn't help the offense hold the ball...and neither could Favre.

One did it by taking sacks, throwing the ball in the ground, etc...
The other by turning it over.

[patmoran2006]

And lastly, if you ONLY care about your QB "managing" a game and not having a **** load of fumbles and picks.. Then you should want HOLCOMB to be starting, since by your own theory he would give us a better chance to win more games.

As much as I hate Holcomb (and I Do big time) he's a lot less likely to throw 3 picks or lose 3 fumbles than Losman.

****, the knock on Holcomb is he has a weak arm.. True.. But how many deep balls has that "gunslinger" connected on this year?? 3?
1- A nice (I admit) TD to Parrish vs Detroit
2- A 51-something yarder to Parrish (Jets) that was in the air for all of 4 yards.
3- The 43 yarder yesterday that any of our grandmothers could've completed EVans was so open.

[patmoran2006]

So your saying Favre managed the game better than Losman then? If your going to look at stats he played a much better game than Losman. 300+ yards with a TD and 2 INT's. He sure drove the ball down the field, yet he didnt win the game.. He gave up the ball at crucial times, and Losman didnt do that. That's managing the game, imo.
Farve sucked.

Losman "managed" the game well at Ne and at Miami.. Not only no turnovers, but he moved the chains, won the battle of field position all day and most importantly, kept the defense fresh.

The only thing Losman "managed" to do Sunday was get boo'd by about 65,000 Bills fans who are fed up with his incompetence.

[SABURZFAN]

The only thing Losman "managed" to do Sunday was get boo'd by about 65,000 Bills fans who are fed up with his incompetence.



:bf1:

[PECKERWOOD]

And lastly, if you ONLY care about your QB "managing" a game and not having a **** load of fumbles and picks.. Then you should want HOLCOMB to be starting, since by your own theory he would give us a better chance to win more games.

As much as I hate Holcomb (and I Do big time) he's a lot less likely to throw 3 picks or lose 3 fumbles than Losman.

****, the knock on Holcomb is he has a weak arm.. True.. But how many deep balls has that "gunslinger" connected on this year?? 3?
1- A nice (I admit) TD to Parrish vs Detroit
2- A 51-something yarder to Parrish (Jets) that was in the air for all of 4 yards.
3- The 43 yarder yesterday that any of our grandmothers could've completed EVans was so open.

I think both Losman and Holcomb can manage the game. The difference is, Losman has more upside. Keep in mind, you are comparing A QB who has been in the league much longer than JP. It may also be noted that, we know where Holcomb could take us, but we dont know where Losman could take us. If Losman could manage games for the rest of season, he may be able to actually WIN us football games next season. Seeing how production at the QB position is a gradual progression, and isnt something that happens over night.

[Devin]

Eh im not worried about it truthfully.

Farve and GB managed the game really well, right into a friggin loss.

Is Losman a pro-bowl QB? No. Can we tell if hes going to be adequate after 16 games behind this line? No. Those who think otherwise just show why they watch the games and dont coach them.

Love or hate Dick Jauron or Marv Levy theres a reason they are where they are and some of us are here writing half rate football articles about what WE would do.

If only the NFl really were like Madden. :rolleyes:

[PECKERWOOD]

Farve sucked.

Losman "managed" the game well at Ne and at Miami.. Not only no turnovers, but he moved the chains, won the battle of field position all day and most importantly, kept the defense fresh.

The only thing Losman "managed" to do Sunday was get boo'd by about 65,000 Bills fans who are fed up with his incompetence.


Pretty funny how all the booing stopped after a bomb to Lee Evans.

[Devin]

Pretty funny how all the booing stopped after a bomb to Lee Evans.

It typically happens with us Bills fans.

[Mr. Pink]

Eh im not worried about it truthfully.

Farve and GB managed the game really well, right into a friggin loss.

Is Losman a pro-bowl QB? No. Can we tell if hes going to be adequate after 16 games behind this line? No. Those who think otherwise just show why they watch the games and dont coach them.

Love or hate Dick Jauron or Marv Levy theres a reason they are where they are and some of us are here writing half rate football articles about what WE would do.

If only the NFl really were like Madden. :rolleyes:

So how many games do you want to give this clown before you can finally tell if he's gonna be adequate or not? Out of curiousity.

[SABURZFAN]

Pretty funny how all the booing stopped after a bomb to Lee Evans.


pretty funny how everybody at the bar i was at was commenting how late that pass was too.pretty funny how the replay showed evans faking harris out of his jock.pretty funny how nobody gave losman any credit for that TD either.

[PECKERWOOD]

pretty funny how everybody at the bar i was at was commenting how late that pass was too.pretty funny how the replay showed evans faking harris out of his jock.pretty funny how nobody gave losman any credit for that TD either.


pretty funny how everybody at the bar i was at was commenting how late that pass was too

What do you expect, they were all drunk! :huh:


pretty funny how the replay showed evans faking harris out of his jock.pretty funny how nobody gave losman any credit for that TD either.

It takes two to complete a pass. I agree it is funny nobody is giving JP credit for that pass.

[patmoran2006]

I think both Losman and Holcomb can manage the game. The difference is, Losman has more upside. Keep in mind, you are comparing A QB who has been in the league much longer than JP. It may also be noted that, we know where Holcomb could take us, but we dont know where Losman could take us. If Losman could manage games for the rest of season, he may be able to actually WIN us football games next season. Seeing how production at the QB position is a gradual progression, and isnt something that happens over night.

LOL dude not my point.. you are soo missing my point... And let me clarify before this turns into a HOlcomb thread.. Kelly Holcomb is a bum-- and he shouldnt even be on the team let alone starting..

My point is you guys are admitting without admitting it that Losman is SO SORRY that your goal is for JP Losman to simply "manage" the game.. That's basically saying "just dont be the reason we lost".

JP Losman is NOT that kind of quarterback, and I dont think Donahoe drafted him in the first place to "manage" football games. JP Losman is SUPPOSED to be like a MIchael Vick.. or a Donavan McNab. Or a Mark Brunnel (younger).. Or a Jake Plummer.. None in particular but among that group.. Guys who have the abiilty to WIN games and make plays from nothing because of sheer atheltic ability.. Guys who have the mobility to escape sacks and take off running down the field..

You guys unconciously admit it without saying it that this guy is so bad your satisfied just by him simply managing a game. Losman isnt a Trent Dilfer, or a Brad Johnson.. He's not the quarterback to simply "manage" games and if he is, then Jauron is an idiot for not having Holcomb as the starter..

NOW if the Bills were more committed towards a RADICALLY different kind of offense, then I'd give him a fighting chance.. But that aint EVER happening with a "protect the ball , defense first" kind of coach in Jauron.. Jauron is the WRONG kind of coach for a Losman style of quarterbacking, and when one of them goes I guarentee you it isn't Jauron..

Nobody is talking about it, and homers will blow it on in here.. But the fact that Losman was BOO'd so LOUDLY, multiple times speaks volumes about what the OVERALL public (not just this tiny % from the board) thinks of him.. And the general public who buys tix arent' much less knowledgable than all of us here.

People are just sick of his ineptness already.... Not JUST him, but he's the leader of it.

[PECKERWOOD]

So how many games do you want to give this clown before you can finally tell if he's gonna be adequate or not? Out of curiousity.
I ask you the same question about Charlie Frye. He is 2nd in most turnovers committed in the league.

[Mr. Pink]

Charlie actually shows he can lead the team on drives when he needs to....He throws more picks than Losman because well he has more attempts than Losman.

He's lead the Browns to more points this season under a completely inept Offensive Coordinator, who has since been fired or resigned, then JP.

He's started 13 games to JPs 16.

Has a completion % of 60.9 over those 13 games to JPs 55.3.

JP has the edge on him in rating 71.4 to 70.6

JPs biggest edge is INTs, but Frye throws more on average than JP....445 attempts to 430 edge to JP....15 picks for JP, 17 for Frye.

I'll sit and use the same excuse, the Browns o-line is terrible so he should stay in at least 20 games or so! Frye's been sacked 51 times to Losmans 53. But he's lost almost 100 fewer yards.

Frye has fumbled 11 times in his career, losing 8. Losman 16 losing 7.

So which QB would I rather have? The guy who completes more passes and is more of a threat to opposing teams. Frye also has 4 rushing TDs to JPs 1.

So both QBs have accounted for 16 TDs in their careers for both teams. Frye just in a shorter period of time. Not too mention Frye has the privilege of playing in a MUCH tougher division than Losman. Played under an OC who got canned because he was an idiot. And is now on a team that has it's 4th center of the year starting, WHO still had no desire to keep the moron who's the center here.

[Devin]

So how many games do you want to give this clown before you can finally tell if he's gonna be adequate or not? Out of curiousity.

Ballpark 32.

[Mr. Cynical]

One thing to consider in all of this - GB's defense is ranked 32nd against the pass (per NFL.com)

[The_Philster]

pretty funny how everybody at the bar i was at was commenting how late that pass was too.pretty funny how the replay showed evans faking harris out of his jock.pretty funny how nobody gave losman any credit for that TD either.
sounds like they were like the people sitting behind me...who were expecting JP to throw the ball before he even finished his pass drop..........people like that should stay away from football and take up needlework

[SABURZFAN]

sounds like they were like the people sitting behind me...who were expecting JP to throw the ball before he even finished his pass drop..........people like that should stay away from football and take up needlework



save the excuses... :rolleyes: when i hear donahoe and pitts talking about it as they commentate on the game,it's pretty obvious to see when they show the replay.

[PECKERWOOD]

LOL dude not my point.. you are soo missing my point... And let me clarify before this turns into a HOlcomb thread.. Kelly Holcomb is a bum-- and he shouldnt even be on the team let alone starting..

My point is you guys are admitting without admitting it that Losman is SO SORRY that your goal is for JP Losman to simply "manage" the game.. That's basically saying "just dont be the reason we lost".

JP Losman is NOT that kind of quarterback, and I dont think Donahoe drafted him in the first place to "manage" football games. JP Losman is SUPPOSED to be like a MIchael Vick.. or a Donavan McNab. Or a Mark Brunnel (younger).. Or a Jake Plummer.. None in particular but among that group.. Guys who have the abiilty to WIN games and make plays from nothing because of sheer atheltic ability.. Guys who have the mobility to escape sacks and take off running down the field..

You guys unconciously admit it without saying it that this guy is so bad your satisfied just by him simply managing a game. Losman isnt a Trent Dilfer, or a Brad Johnson.. He's not the quarterback to simply "manage" games and if he is, then Jauron is an idiot for not having Holcomb as the starter..

NOW if the Bills were more committed towards a RADICALLY different kind of offense, then I'd give him a fighting chance.. But that aint EVER happening with a "protect the ball , defense first" kind of coach in Jauron.. Jauron is the WRONG kind of coach for a Losman style of quarterbacking, and when one of them goes I guarentee you it isn't Jauron..

Nobody is talking about it, and homers will blow it on in here.. But the fact that Losman was BOO'd so LOUDLY, multiple times speaks volumes about what the OVERALL public (not just this tiny % from the board) thinks of him.. And the general public who buys tix arent' much less knowledgable than all of us here.

People are just sick of his ineptness already.... Not JUST him, but he's the leader of it.

Your missing my point also. If he can start managing us games, and get a feel for things, eventually he can win them for us. Like I said, a QB's progression is a gradual process.


Nobody is talking about it, and homers will blow it on in here.. But the fact that Losman was BOO'd so LOUDLY, multiple times speaks volumes about what the OVERALL public (not just this tiny % from the board) thinks of him.. And the general public who buys tix arent' much less knowledgable than all of us here.

Its funny you say that, because many Philly fans were ready to run Donovan McNabb out of town too. I bet you the majority of them that wanted to, are happy they didnt now.

[PECKERWOOD]

P.S. - JP has showed the ability to pick up our team and win it for us. See Minnesota, he had a hell of a game against the Jet's too. With all that said, I really dont want to judge his past performances, just Sunday's game against Green Bay. It's much easier to look at things from a matter of factly manner that way..

[OpIv37]

P.S. - JP has showed the ability to pick up our team and win it for us. See Minnesota, he had a hell of a game against the Jet's too. With all that said, I really dont want to judge his past performances, just Sunday's game against Green Bay. It's much easier to look at things from a matter of factly manner that way..

how can you use the Jets game when talking about JP's ability to pick up a win for us? Statistically, we dominated that game but JP's turnovers lost it for us. Also, on the Bills last possession he threw two consecutive comeback out patters about 10 yards past the LOS instead of heaving it downfield (and he missed both of them). I don't think you can say he's shown the ability just because he did it once in 16 starts.

Hell, on rare occasions, Tim Anderson has pressured the QB- I wouldn't say that means he has the ability to put constant pressure on the QB. He still sucks.

[PECKERWOOD]

Charlie actually shows he can lead the team on drives when he needs to....He throws more picks than Losman because well he has more attempts than Losman.

He's lead the Browns to more points this season under a completely inept Offensive Coordinator, who has since been fired or resigned, then JP.

He's started 13 games to JPs 16.

Has a completion % of 60.9 over those 13 games to JPs 55.3.

JP has the edge on him in rating 71.4 to 70.6

JPs biggest edge is INTs, but Frye throws more on average than JP....445 attempts to 430 edge to JP....15 picks for JP, 17 for Frye.

I'll sit and use the same excuse, the Browns o-line is terrible so he should stay in at least 20 games or so! Frye's been sacked 51 times to Losmans 53. But he's lost almost 100 fewer yards.

Frye has fumbled 11 times in his career, losing 8. Losman 16 losing 7.

So which QB would I rather have? The guy who completes more passes and is more of a threat to opposing teams. Frye also has 4 rushing TDs to JPs 1.

So both QBs have accounted for 16 TDs in their careers for both teams. Frye just in a shorter period of time. Not too mention Frye has the privilege of playing in a MUCH tougher division than Losman. Played under an OC who got canned because he was an idiot. And is now on a team that has it's 4th center of the year starting, WHO still had no desire to keep the moron who's the center here.

Why are you comparing him to Losman? I was simply asking him why you would let him play, this isnt a contest between the two. And even if it were I would still take Losman. Atleast Frye has some good players on his OL, and he has an elite TE and a good #1 WR to throw to. I dont think you can really compare them. Even with all those advantages he is still a turnover machine. He is on pace to throw 16 TD's and 24 INT's.. Atleast Losman has more TD's than interceptions, JMO.

[scott51]

I just read the first few posts on page 1 of this thread. I apologize if this was said already, I didn't read all the posts. What exactly do people want from JP right now? I have been very hard on him this year and after Sunday, I was impressed. I agree with the original post! I believe he did show improvement, while at the same time made some mistakes. Some Bills fans need to realize that JP is still a young quarterback and will NOT go out there and play like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

[PECKERWOOD]

how can you use the Jets game when talking about JP's ability to pick up a win for us? Statistically, we dominated that game but JP's turnovers lost it for us. Also, on the Bills last possession he threw two consecutive comeback out patters about 10 yards past the LOS instead of heaving it downfield (and he missed both of them). I don't think you can say he's shown the ability just because he did it once in 16 starts.

Hell, on rare occasions, Tim Anderson has pressured the QB- I wouldn't say that means he has the ability to put constant pressure on the QB. He still sucks.

Because we dominated them that game, we just needed work in the redzone. Atleast we were moving the ball and making huge plays, that shows some ability, IMO. The major question about JP is, can he perform consistently? Alot of this has to do with it being his first full season as a starter, and he is playing a style of offense he is not familiar with. Keep in mind this is his first year in Fairchild's system, and Fairchild himself stated that their not using JP's athletic capability to their advantage right now.. They are keeping him in the pocket, so he learns how to read defenses this year..

[OpIv37]

Because we dominated them that game, we just needed work in the redzone. Atleast we were moving the ball and making huge plays, that shows some ability, IMO. The major question about JP is, can he perform consistently? Alot of this has to do with it being his first full season as a starter, and he is playing a style of offense he is not familiar with. Keep in mind this is his first year in Fairchild's system, and Fairchild himself stated that their not using JP's athletic capability to their advantage right now.. They are keeping him in the pocket, so he learns how to read defenses this year..

the scary part of that statement is "this year" because it sounds like JP is in their plans for next year too. Now, don't get me wrong- I'm not calling for JP's head yet- but my hope would be that they would evaluate JP THIS year then decide if they want him for NEXT year. It scares me that they may have already decided he'll be here next year- they should be waiting on that decision.

[justasportsfan]

Statistically, we dominated that game but JP's turnovers lost it for us. .
the bandwagonjumper is blaming the loss on one player? Yeah it was his fault that the jets who couldn't run the ball before the game all of a sudden ran well against our run D. It's also his fault that Chad had a field day. :coocoo:

You amaze me OP. You defended Jp up until last sunday even though we won. Then you switch sides and blame him for a loss way back when you were defending him? You give Anderson a backhanded compliment who you blasted all season long? :shakeno:

[TigerJ]

On the touchdown pass to Evans, I have to admit Losman was very lucky. He floated it and was late in his release. Evans had to hold up for a second to wait for it rather than catching it in stride. He was lucky because Al Harris had gambled and took himself so far out of position that even with the floating pass he couldn't catch up to the play.

[OpIv37]

the bandwagonjumper is blaming the loss on one player? Yeah it was his fault that the jets who couldn't run the ball before the game all of a sudden ran well against our run D. It's also his fault that Chad had a field day. :coocoo:

You amaze me OP. You defended Jp up until last sunday even though we won. Then you switch sides and blame him for a loss way back when you were defending him? You give Anderson a backhanded compliment who you blasted all season long? :shakeno:

Ok, I can't believe I need to sort everything out to this level of detail for you to comprehend, but apparently I will.

JP was not the only reason we lost the Jets game but his turnovers were a HUGE factor. BF suggested that the Jets game was an example of how JP can win games for us, but I think it's the opposite- he had the numbers to win but made enough mistakes to contribute to the loss. Whether or not you blame JP for the loss completely is irrelevant- the game still doesn't prove the point BF was trying to make.

Second, I didn't just start bashing JP after the GB game. He looked like he was improving after the first 4 games. I wasn't that concerned about the Chicago game because it was a great D on the road. I started getting concerned after the Lions game, and definitely after the Pats game, and I started saying that it was looking less and less likely that JP is going to be the QB of our future. I said at the beginning of the year that I think JP should get the full season no matter how he plays, and I'm not wavering from that. I'm just gradually losing confidence in him as a long term answer.

And third, I didn't intend to give Anderson a back-handed compliment. He sucks and will always suck. I was just making the point that even bad players can make a good play on occasion. A few plays here and there or one good game out of every 6 or so don't make a good player.

[justasportsfan]

JP was not the only reason we lost the Jets game but his turnovers were a HUGE factor. . that's all you needed to say.



BF suggested that the Jets game was an example of how JP can win games for us, but I think it's the opposite- he had the numbers to win but made enough mistakes to contribute to the loss. Whether or not you blame JP for the loss completely is irrelevant- the game still doesn't prove the point BF was trying to make. .
While he made mistakes, he also had enough stats that could've won the game. The nos. he had in that game could either win or lose the game. The BIGGER problem in that game was the D and the playcalling.

[PECKERWOOD]

On the touchdown pass to Evans, I have to admit Losman was very lucky. He floated it and was late in his release. Evans had to hold up for a second to wait for it rather than catching it in stride. He was lucky because Al Harris had gambled and took himself so far out of position that even with the floating pass he couldn't catch up to the play.

It was a duck, but he was hit when throwing the football. He was so focused in on Lee, and knew he was going to get hit HARD for staying in the pocket like that, yet he delivered the ball and got licked anyways. Thats a good sign, IMO. That's what good QB's do. Marc Bulger is the same type of player.

[PECKERWOOD]

the scary part of that statement is "this year" because it sounds like JP is in their plans for next year too. Now, don't get me wrong- I'm not calling for JP's head yet- but my hope would be that they would evaluate JP THIS year then decide if they want him for NEXT year. It scares me that they may have already decided he'll be here next year- they should be waiting on that decision.

If the season were to end right now, I would let JP play next year also.. But he is still on a short leash with me, but as long as he limits mistakes, manages the game and isnt detrimental to the team, I see no point in changing the QB. In the end, I think we just need to be patient with our young QB, he shows alot of promise, imo.

[raphael120]

If the season were to end right now, I would let JP play next year also.. But he is still on a short leash with me, but as long as he limits mistakes, manages the game and isnt detrimental to the team, I see no point in changing the QB. In the end, I think we just need to be patient with our young QB, he shows alot of promise, imo.

you can manage your own play at QB...you can't manage or control the crap play calling, the crap OL, the crap WR....

[PECKERWOOD]

you can manage your own play at QB...you can't manage or control the crap play calling, the crap OL, the crap WR....

I agree on all counts.

[jaycorp51]

I saw the same **** I've seen from him the last two weeks, with the exception of the fact that he protected the ball better.

He hit Royal in the feet on a short pass. He underthrew Evans twice (although one did go for a TD). And he seems to be making decisions too slowly. Granted the OL isn't giving him a lot of time, but by the time he figures out where to go with the ball, either the receiver's covered or there is too much pressure. He also decides to move out of the pocket too late.

He underthrew Evans on the touchdown cause he got nailed right as he threw. So lets not even try to pick on that one. He also hit Royal for what should have been a first down, but it was dropped. So for as many times as you can say he underthrew the ball....there are also times when he made plays and there are drops. Take the third down in the Pats game with the pass to Evans. Big third down that was negated by a penalty. That's not JP's fault and it only makes it harder because the defense can sit back even further and keep the play in front of them protecting the first down marker. Jp still is very young in playing terms and has a lot to learn. He is not very good, but is improving and learning. Give the kid a break

[jaycorp51]

When you're considered improving by not running into the ref and fumbling, that's not much of a standard..

He almost got BOO'd out of his OWN stadium, and had he not completed a pass to a WIDE OPEN Evans, talk shows would be filled with callers wanting him to go directly to the bench..

SHould I take the couple dozens Homers word on that? Or should I listen to about the 50,000 fans in the stadium who were booing him like he was Dan Marino at the Ralph.

Fans are fed up with his ******ed play.. and dont tell me its common, bills fans are VERY loyal and knowledgable. Everybody knows that.

Do us a favor. Go root for the Dolphins or some other team. If you were half way intelligent, you would understand that a young qb will take 2 years STARTING before you can fairly assess his play. Granted there are your anamalies out there like Brady who picks it up right away (he was also on a team that has a much better core than ours and was a playoff team before he got in there). But for the most part, you don't see young qb's coming into the league and tearing it up.

[The_Philster]

save the excuses... :rolleyes: when i hear donahoe and pitts talking about it as they commentate on the game,it's pretty obvious to see when they show the replay.
Were you sitting near me watching the game and hearing how quickly this one idiot was yelling?
No? ...then where the hell are you getting the excuses crap from? You can't handle the truth because your hatred blinds you to the facts.
Don't talk to me about excuses...JP hadn't even gotten dropped back and this guy was yelling like a fool. If you actually think he should be throwing the ball before he drops back, then you need to relearn the game of football

[SABURZFAN]

On the touchdown pass to Evans, I have to admit Losman was very lucky. He floated it and was late in his release.


that's the norm now.that's what the commentators keep mentioning in the last 4 games.

[SABURZFAN]

Were you sitting near me watching the game and hearing how quickly this one idiot was yelling?
No? ...then where the hell are you getting the excuses crap from? You can't handle the truth because your hatred blinds you to the facts.
Don't talk to me about excuses...JP hadn't even gotten dropped back and this guy was yelling like a fool. If you actually think he should be throwing the ball before he drops back, then you need to relearn the game of football



truth is that people who have been around football can see it.i could care less about some "idiot" sitting behind you either.it's obvious that that "idiot" has better vision than you.

[The_Philster]

truth is that people who have been around football can see it.i could care less about some "idiot" sitting behind you either.it's obvious that that "idiot" has better vision than you.
funny....if you think he has better vision than me, what do you base that on? Were you there? Cause if you weren't sitting near me, then you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about...I know exactly what was happening on the field when that idiot was yelling...and unless you were there, you really can't question it. All you're doing is letting your hatred blind you to the facts

[The_Philster]

Care to scan your ticket to the game, SAB....so we can see where you were sitting? I don't remember seeing you at the game myself :idunno: But according to you, you were in my section

[SABURZFAN]

funny....if you think he has better vision than me, what do you base that on? Were you there? Cause if you weren't sitting near me, then you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about...I know exactly what was happening on the field when that idiot was yelling...and unless you were there, you really can't question it. All you're doing is letting your hatred blind you to the facts



like i said,i don't care what you or any "idiot" around you thinks.if you kept your eyes off of the cheerleaders long enough,you'd see that the fact is that losman just plains sucks.

[SABURZFAN]

Care to scan your ticket to the game, SAB....so we can see where you were sitting? I don't remember seeing you at the game myself :idunno: But according to you, you were in my section


i saw the game perfectly clear.

[SABURZFAN]

oh dear....the male cheerleader groaned me again. :rolleyes:

[PECKERWOOD]

you can manage your own play at QB...you can't manage or control the crap play calling, the crap OL, the crap WR....

Are you an illegal immigrant? Sometimes I have trouble understanding what the **** you are trying to say.

[SABURZFAN]

Are you an illegal immigrant? Sometimes I have trouble understanding what the **** you are trying to say.


who cares?

[The_Philster]

like i said,i don't care what you or any "idiot" around you thinks.if you kept your eyes off of the cheerleaders long enough,you'd see that the fact is that losman just plains sucks.
Scan the ticket, SAB...you're claiming the guy was in the right to yell for JP to throw the ball when he did...only way you can dispute what I said was if you were there. And attacking me because you're wrong only shows how wrong you are. You're wrong, you know it, and you're desperately trying to deflect that away from yourself. I don't care about how much you hate JP...I'm telling you that when a guy expects the QB, no matter who it is, to throw the ball before he even finishes his pass drop, he's nothing short of an idiot

[The_Philster]

i saw the game perfectly clear.
it's not about seeing the game...you're telling me that the guy behind me was in his right to yell at JP when he did.
HOW THE **** IS HE SUPPOSED TO THROW THE BALL IF HE'S STILL DROPPING BACK?????????
READ WHAT I AM SAYING!

Maybe the big letters will get through to you?

[Inetpub]

Scan the ticket, SAB...you're claiming the guy was in the right to yell for JP to throw the ball when he did...only way you can dispute what I said was if you were there. And attacking me because you're wrong only shows how wrong you are. You're wrong, you know it, and you're desperately trying to deflect that away from yourself. I don't care about how much you hate JP...I'm telling you that when a guy expects the QB, no matter who it is, to throw the ball before he even finishes his pass drop, he's nothing short of an idiot

So let me get this straight. Your saying SABs is attacking you because he is wrong and the only way he can defend himself is attack you. Yet you attack him by calling him "nothing short of an idiot"??

Isnt that you that is attacking and all you are doing is deflecting that SABs is right? Those are your words.

[Inetpub]

it's not about seeing the game...you're telling me that the guy behind me was in his right to yell at JP when he did.
HOW THE **** IS HE SUPPOSED TO THROW THE BALL IF HE'S STILL DROPPING BACK?????????
READ WHAT I AM SAYING!

Maybe the big letters will get through to you?
Easy. Pull your arm back and make a throwing motion with it.
Somehow every other QB in the league knows it. Why not JP?

[The_Philster]

So let me get this straight. Your saying SABs is attacking you because he is wrong and the only way he can defend himself is attack you. Yet you attack him by calling him "nothing short of an idiot"??

Isnt that you that is attacking and all you are doing is deflecting that SABs is right? Those are your words.
try reading my post...the person who is nothing short of an idiot was the guy behind me :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

Easy. Pull your arm back and make a throwing motion with it.
Somehow every other QB in the league knows it. Why not JP?
other QBs at least drop back...which is what JP was doing...the moron behind me thought JP should throw the ball practically as soon as he got the snap :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

you're claiming the guy was in the right to yell for JP to throw the ball when he did...



i did??? :huh:

[PECKERWOOD]

who cares?

Well he groaned me, and I cant understand broken English.. If somebody disagrees with me, I would like to be able to understand their pov, only if other people cared about understanding one anothers views.

[The_Philster]

i did??? :huh:
You deny making this statement?

it's obvious that that "idiot" has better vision than you.

I found it here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1714225&postcount=86)

[SABURZFAN]

oh dear....the male cheerleader negged me. :rolleyes:

[PECKERWOOD]

So let me get this straight. Your saying SABs is attacking you because he is wrong and the only way he can defend himself is attack you. Yet you attack him by calling him "nothing short of an idiot"??

Isnt that you that is attacking and all you are doing is deflecting that SABs is right? Those are your words.

Sab is a good guy really.. At times though, his posts go beyond idiotic.

[The_Philster]

I fully agree that JP has to get quicker on making his reads...but he should at least be allowed a couple of seconds to get dropped back...even Marino, with the quickest release of any QB ever, took a couple of seconds.

[SABURZFAN]

I found it here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1714225&postcount=86)


but that's YOU'RE opinion.as far as we know,YOU could be stretching the truth.when pitts and donahoe say that losman was holding onto the ball too long,i'll take their opinions more seriously than somebody who became a Bills fan during the glory years.not to mention that i saw the same thing they were commenting on.

[SABURZFAN]

Sab is a good guy really.. At times though, his posts go beyond idiotic.


i don't need minions.

[PECKERWOOD]

i don't need minions.

Can't help but laugh really.

[SABURZFAN]

Can't help but laugh really.


watching Philster go nuts is pretty funny. :up:

[The_Philster]

but that's YOU'RE opinion.as far as we know,YOU could be stretching the truth.when pitts and donahoe say that losman was holding onto the ball too long,i'll take their opinions more seriously than somebody who became a Bills fan during the glory years.not to mention that i saw the same thing they were commenting on.
no...it's not an opinion, SAB....the guy behind me was yelling for JP to throw the ball before he even got set in his pass drop...not an opinion...it's something that happened and unless you were there, you have no way of disputing what I am saying...I was there....and unless you can produce a scan of your ticket from Sunday's game, we have to assume that you weren't.
Now, if you wanna defend this guy's actions, that would be a matter of opinion....and your opinion would be ridiculous, IMO...JP should be given at least a couple seconds to get dropped back...like every other QB in the league is given...but maybe your hatred for JP makes you feel he should do everything better than every other QB in the history of the NFL or something :idunno:

[The_Philster]

watching Philster go nuts is pretty funny. :up:
illiteracy has that effect on me :D

[SABURZFAN]

illiteracy has that effect on me :D



stop hanging with the "idiots" at the Bills game then.

[PECKERWOOD]

watching Philster go nuts is pretty funny. :up:

I admit, Philster talking in bold font, with letters taking up my whole damn screen, was pretty funny.

[SABURZFAN]

no...it's not an opinion, SAB....the guy behind me was yelling for JP to throw the ball before he even got set in his pass drop...not an opinion...it's something that happened and unless you were there, you have no way of disputing what I am saying...I was there....and unless you can produce a scan of your ticket from Sunday's game, we have to assume that you weren't.
Now, if you wanna defend this guy's actions, that would be a matter of opinion....and your opinion would be ridiculous, IMO...JP should be given at least a couple seconds to get dropped back...like every other QB in the league is given...but maybe your hatred for JP makes you feel he should do everything better than every other QB in the history of the NFL or something :idunno:


i'm not defending the guys actions.i'm not questioning it either.

[SABURZFAN]

I admit, Philster talking in bold font, with letters taking up my whole damn screen, was pretty funny.


i bet he dropped the keyboard too.he's pretty clumsy.i've seen it in person.

[PECKERWOOD]

lol, this thread has gone down the ****ter.. Let's stay on topic here folks!

[SABURZFAN]

lol, this thread has gone down the ****ter.. Let's stay on topic here folks!



so no turnovers is an improvement.YAY JP!!!!!! :bf1: (sarcasm)

[PECKERWOOD]

so no turnovers is an improvement.YAY JP!!!!!! :bf1: (sarcasm)

Atleast, your being factual now! :bf1:
Dont forget, he managed the game.

[The_Philster]

stop hanging with the "idiots" at the Bills game then.
I'm not...unless you're calling Mikey, danny, Dozer, Darth, etc...

This guy's been sitting behind me for years...I don't know where his head was Sunday...cause it wasn't on the game :idunno:


I admit, Philster talking in bold font, with letters taking up my whole damn screen, was pretty funny.:biggrin: I felt I had to get my point across and the regular font was too hard for a :fogey: like SAB to read :idunno:


i bet he dropped the keyboard too.he's pretty clumsy.i've seen it in person.:mad: That was in a jacket pocket...not in my hands

[SABURZFAN]

Atleast, your being factual now! :bf1:
Dont forget, he managed the game.



he couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.

[PECKERWOOD]

he couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.
What about a wet plastic bag? :huh:

[OpIv37]

He underthrew Evans on the touchdown cause he got nailed right as he threw. So lets not even try to pick on that one. He also hit Royal for what should have been a first down, but it was dropped. So for as many times as you can say he underthrew the ball....there are also times when he made plays and there are drops. Take the third down in the Pats game with the pass to Evans. Big third down that was negated by a penalty. That's not JP's fault and it only makes it harder because the defense can sit back even further and keep the play in front of them protecting the first down marker. Jp still is very young in playing terms and has a lot to learn. He is not very good, but is improving and learning. Give the kid a break

I was giving him a break. But he's gone 4 games with no improvement whatsoever and I'm getting a little frustrated by it. I'm not expecting him to dominate, but I'd like to see some signs that he's starting to "get it" and it's just not happening.

I still think he should play out the season, but I'm losing confidence in him as our QB of the future with every game.

[Typ0]

it's not about seeing the game...you're telling me that the guy behind me was in his right to yell at JP when he did.
HOW THE **** IS HE SUPPOSED TO THROW THE BALL IF HE'S STILL DROPPING BACK?????????
READ WHAT I AM SAYING!

Maybe the big letters will get through to you?


I used to have this football game when I was a kid. It was a big metal board and plastic guys...you set up your guys and flipped a switch and the board vibrated and you got to see what happened. If that guy could throw a pass while he's dropping back then so can JP...remember that guy in the game didn't have a brain either.

[PECKERWOOD]

I was giving him a break. But he's gone 4 games with no improvement whatsoever and I'm getting a little frustrated by it. I'm not expecting him to dominate, but I'd like to see some signs that he's starting to "get it" and it's just not happening.

I still think he should play out the season, but I'm losing confidence in him as our QB of the future with every game.


I was giving him a break. But he's gone 4 games with no improvement whatsoever and I'm getting a little frustrated by it. I'm not expecting him to dominate, but I'd like to see some signs that he's starting to "get it" and it's just not happening.

He did improve against GB.. It wasn't monumental, but it was still improvement.. If I see him improve each and every week, I'l be happy with that. Seems like he has a good game, than a couple bad games. This season for JP has been a roller coaster.. If JP makes inconsistent play become a trend for the remainder of the season, than he will most likely be gone.


I still think he should play out the season, but I'm losing confidence in him as our QB of the future with every game.

I agree he needs to play the rest of the season, and I am losing confidence in him also. He needs to show us more before seasons end.

[SABURZFAN]

I used to have this football game when I was a kid. It was a big metal board and plastic guys...you set up your guys and flipped a switch and the board vibrated and you got to see what happened. If that guy could throw a pass while he's dropping back then so can JP...remember that guy in the game didn't have a brain either.


:rofl:

[BillsFever21]

I was paying attention to this very same thing especially since Pat Moran brought it up.

Farve get's sacked, none of his teammates came to his aid and Schobel instead helps him up.

Damn, Farve's teammates hate him too.

You gotta take anything he says with a grain a salt. He considers it a fact if that's what HE wants to believe.