Bad line play is no excuse for JP but is the #1 excuse for Willis

[THATHURMANATOR]

WHY?

Run blocking is easier than pass blocking too.

[Typ0]

Thomas made the run blocking look better. When there was even the slightest hold he ran in there right away. WM is not doing that. WM is a much better runner sideline to sideline and it looks to me that the backs need to be in different situations.

[ICE74129]

WHY?

Run blocking is easier than pass blocking too.

A train ran harder and better than willis did so why not give A train a shot at the starters position? didn't DJ and Marv say ALL positions are open for competition?

[ICE74129]

Thomas made the run blocking look better. When there was even the slightest hold he ran in there right away. WM is not doing that. WM is a much better runner sideline to sideline and it looks to me that the backs need to be in different situations.

No it looks to me we need ONE COMPLETE back. Willis isn't it and is never going to be.

[Typ0]

No it looks to me we need ONE COMPLETE back. Willis isn't it and is never going to be.


I'm just not sure that's true. It would be nice to see WM in a situation where he can take control of a game and when are we ever in that situation? I do see a difference in the runners but that doesn't mean WM isn't any good. He also is the type of guy who gets better over the course of the game and he's a much bigger receiving threat than Atrain...but we really can't capitalize on his strenghts with the current state of the offense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I need answers DAMMIT!

[justasportsfan]

Sorry thurm, you can't use that for Willis because he had a knee injury and Losman only had a broken leg.

[HHURRICANE]

Randy Moss is one of the best receivers in the game. When you don't have an O-line it makes your skill positions look alot worse. When your O-line is excellent it makes your skill positions look better than they are i.e. Matt Hasselback.

Can you imagine Matt Hasselback on the Bills? That's why the criticism of JP is a joke. Look at how bad Carson palmer played until Cincy got a line. Really hard to develop a young QB behind a bad line. Eli Manning, in my opinion, is still mediocre and plays behind an excellent line.

[djjimkelly]

Randy Moss is one of the best receivers in the game. When you don't have an O-line it makes your skill positions look alot worse. When your O-line is excellent it makes your skill positions look better than they are i.e. Matt Hasselback.

Can you imagine Matt Hasselback on the Bills? That's why the criticism of JP is a joke. Look at how bad Carson palmer played until Cincy got a line. Really hard to develop a young QB behind a bad line. Eli Manning, in my opinion, is still mediocre and plays behind an excellent line.


look how mediocre palmer looks behind this years bengals line who has been down 2 starting pro bowl caliber o lineman this year hes been jump balling alot of passes.

BUT cincy does have a slew of 6'3 wrs so they will make plays sometimes. unlike our 4 clones at wr.

dont get me wrong i like our wrs but we are flawed int he fact that we do not have 1 large wr

[HHURRICANE]

look how mediocre palmer looks behind this years bengals line who has been down 2 starting pro bowl caliber o lineman this year hes been jump balling alot of passes.

BUT cincy does have a slew of 6'3 wrs so they will make plays sometimes. unlike our 4 clones at wr.

dont get me wrong i like our wrs but we are flawed int he fact that we do not have 1 large wr

Dude, your on a roll today. Great point!!!:clap:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bottom line is Willis needs to get his head out of his ass.

[HHURRICANE]

Bottom line is Willis needs to get his head out of his ass.

Maybe, as I have been saying all along, he's not that good. He's not a top 5 back. He might not even be a top 10 back.

[THATHURMANATOR]

There are EASILY 10 Rbs I would rather have currently than Willis.

[THATHURMANATOR]

LT
LJ
Alexander(when back from injury)
Ronnie Brown
Rudi Johnson
Dunn
Tiki
Willie Parker
Stephen Jackson
Maroney
Thomas Jones
Gore
Chester Taylor

The above are just names that popped into my head that are either better or as good as Willis.

[justasportsfan]

Willis is a good back. He just isn't one of those who can dominate a game by himself. He isn't one that you build an offense around.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly my point.

[Typ0]

Willis is a good back. He just isn't one of those who can dominate a game by himself. He isn't one that you build an offense around.

I disagree. That is the back he is but he isn't getting the opportunity to demonstrate it in our offense.

[justasportsfan]

I disagree. That is the back he is but he isn't getting the opportunity to demonstrate it in our offense.
I thought he did with that swing pass for 50+ yds. but he wasn't able to beat one guy. The elite rb's can beat several guys ahead of then but he couldn't beat one? :idunno:

That's why I think his injury could be a blessing in disguise. If the A-Train ends up playing just as well or better, we can now gauge if whether we should show him the money next year or move on and either draft a rb and live with A train while the rookie develops, or find one in FA'cy.

Don't get me wrong, I like Willis.I can't say whether I like his personality just yet until we see how he handles his contract negotiations. He too should be handed the same excuses Jp get's when it comes to Moolarkey and co. to a bad OL since he's been here. However, his contract is gonna be discussed next year. If he wants a top 5 contract, he hasn't earned it if he can't even beat one player.

[Coach Sal]

Run blocking is easier than pass blocking too.

This isn't necessarily true.

Some guys are better at pass blocking.
Some guys are better at run blocking.
Some guys are about the same at both.

And, as far as a team, a lot of it (what's "easier") is predicated upon the offesnive system, as well as what a team works on - or emphasises - more in practice.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This isn't necessarily true.

Some guys are better at pass blocking.
Some guys are better at run blocking.
Some guys are about the same at both.

And, as far as a team, a lot of it (what's "easier") is predicated upon the offesnive system, as well as what a team works on - or emphasises - more in practice.
Would it be fair to say that there are a lot more linemen who are better at run blocking than pass blocking though....

[HAMMER]

I am so sick of Willis McGahee, he was not the right pick in that draft. He flat out can not beat anyone to the endzone, he does not display heart. A-Train showed last Sunday how you should hit a hole, he deserves to start even if Willis were healthy. I hope he lights it up the next few games, I hope we trade McGahee in the offseason, I hope we find a stud back with heart in the 07 draft. I think Willis' ****ty attitude is a large part of this teams problems the last two years, along with our lines sucking. Sorry for ranting but I have been watching this team since OJ was cutting and slashing through defenses, Willis is one of the less impressive Bills backs in the last twenty years in many ways.

[Coach Sal]

Would it be fair to say that there are a lot more linemen who are better at run blocking than pass blocking though....

I don't think it would be fair without actually asking all of them or their coaches.

I'm not trying to be cute, and I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of your thread (about the excuses), I'm just pointing out that they are two entirely different skill sets and some guys are better at one or the other.

In pass blocking you sit back and are not as aggressive as you are in run blocking. In pass protection, you see the defender and let things come to you, instead of attacking the defender. You have to attack in run blocking, and be more aggressive.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't think it would be fair without actually asking all of them or their coaches.

I'm not trying to be cute, and I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of your thread (about the excuses), I'm just pointing out that they are two entirely different skill sets and some guys are better at one or the other.

In pass blocking you sit back and are not as aggressive as you are in run blocking. In pass protection, you see the defender and let things come to you, instead of attacking the defender. You have to attack in run blocking, and be more aggressive.
Hey you are the coach and what you say makes sense but every single game it seems an announcer will make the point that run blocking is easier. It happened last night on MNF.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

He also is the type of guy who gets better over the course of the game and he's a much bigger receiving threat than Atrain...

Both of these statements are false. McGahee does not get better as the game goes on. In fact, it is the exact opposite.

McGahee:
1ST HALF 4.2
2ND HALF 3.2

McGahee:
1ST QUARTER 4.4
2ND QUARTER 4.0
3RD QUARTER 3.7
4TH QUARTER 2.4

McGahee:
ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 4.1
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 3.8
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 2.4

Also, McGahee and Thomas have very similar receiving totals.

[justasportsfan]

Both of these statements are false. McGahee does not get better as the game goes on. In fact, it is the exact opposite.

McGahee:
1ST HALF 4.2
2ND HALF 3.2

McGahee:
1ST QUARTER 4.4
2ND QUARTER 4.0
3RD QUARTER 3.7
4TH QUARTER 2.4

McGahee:
ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 4.1
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 3.8
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 2.4

Also, McGahee and Thomas have very similar receiving totals.
sorry bro. I agree with typo on this. The stats don't paint an entire picture unless you watch the games He does get stronger as the game progresses.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

sorry bro. I agree with typo on this. The stats don't paint an entire picture unless you watch the games He does get stronger as the game progresses.

I watch the games and I don't see what you are seeing. My POV is supported by the numbers.

BTW, here are his numbers from last season. They show the same trends as this year:

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 4.0
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 3.8
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 3.4
ATTEMPTS 31+ 2.0

FIRST DOWN 4.2
SECOND DOWN 3.7
THIRD DOWN 2.4
FOURTH DOWN 1.7

1ST HALF 3.9
2ND HALF 3.8
LAST TWO MINUTES OF HALF 2.2

1ST QUARTER 3.6
2ND QUARTER 4.2
3RD QUARTER 3.8
4TH QUARTER 3.8

By comparison, look at these numbers (I won't mention whose they are). This is the trend you should see if he does get stronger as the game goes on.

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 3.4
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 4.8
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 5.5

[THATHURMANATOR]

Seriously. How can the #s lie

[HHURRICANE]

Willis is a good back. He just isn't one of those who can dominate a game by himself. He isn't one that you build an offense around.

Well that ain't saying much.

[PECKERWOOD]

He is a work horse, that is for sure though. He can carry the rock 30++ times a game.. Kind of similar to Eddy George, not great stats but many attempts. Their respective styles however, are much different.

[justasportsfan]

Seriously. How can the #s liecheck out JP's comparisons to the league average. Does this mean he above average?


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781;_ylt=AqwgdVzOiHGOY7ty.DHPFuX.uLYF

Finfaninbuffalo didn't post the entire stat sheet either

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6359/situational;_ylt=Avc.d8cxIw.lwcSmvchiqBT.uLYF

check out his average when behind as compared to when we're ahead. Check out his recieving yards when behind as well compared. I can twist the stats when I want to. All I rememebr is that he becomes very effective in the later part of the game.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

check out JP's comparisons to the league average. Does this mean he above average?


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781;_ylt=AqwgdVzOiHGOY7ty.DHPFuX.uLYF

Finfaninbuffalo didn't post the entire stat sheet either

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6359/situational;_ylt=Avc.d8cxIw.lwcSmvchiqBT.uLYF

check out his average when behind as compared to when we're ahead. Check out his recieving yards when behind as well compared. I can twist the stats when I want to. All I rememebr is that he becomes very effective in the later part of the game.

Now you're reaching. I didn't twist any stats. If YPC is not an accurate representation of effectiveness over the course of a game for a RB, then what is? Rather than just claim the stats are wrong, can you come up with a logical explanation of why (for the last two seasons) McGahee gets less effecitve as he gets more carries? I didn't even claim that is was McGahee's fault. There could be other explanations for it (OL tiring out, the defense could be making adjustments, etc.) The fact is that he has not produced late in games for the last two seasons. He is averaging 2.4 YPC in the 4th quarter.

I think the Bills coaches should give more touches to A-Train to keep McGahee fresh.

[STAMPY]

****


JP


HE

SUX

[STAMPY]

HE LOOKS LIKE A *** TOO... I HATE GAY QBs too garcia :ill:

[THATHURMANATOR]

STAMPS WHAT UP KID!!

[justasportsfan]

Rather than just claim the stats are wrong, can you come up with a logical explanation of why (for the last two seasons) McGahee gets less effecitve as he gets more carries? I didn't even claim that is was McGahee's fault. .

Uh, the stats states he gets less carries in the 2nd half than in the first half. Try to click on the link again and check out last year as well.

Never said you said it was his fault nor were bashing him . He also tends to get busier recieving in the 2nd half than in the first half if you include last years recieving stats.

Stats can be very misleading. Obviously I'm not the only one who notices that he get's more important in the 2nd half especially when controlling the clock than nos. themselves show.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Uh, the stats states he gets less carries in the 2nd half than in the first half. Try to click on the link again and check out last year as well.

Never said you said it was his fault nor were bashing him . He also tends to get busier recieving in the 2nd half than in the first half if you include last years recieving stats.

Stats can be very misleading. Obviously I'm not the only one who notices that he get's more important in the 2nd half especially when controlling the clock than nos. themselves show.

He does get less carries in the second half, but that is not the issue. The issue is his YPC drops dramatically. That was true last year and remains true so far this year. You seem to be remembering the McGahee from his rookie year. He has not been as effective over the last season and a half.

He only has 2 more receptions in the second half than the first half over the last two seasons. I'm not sure why you think he is busier in the passing game in the second half.

[justasportsfan]

He does get less carries in the second half, but that is not the issue. The issue is his YPC drops dramatically. That was true last year and remains true so far this year. You seem to be remembering the McGahee from his rookie year. He has not been as effective over the last season and a half.

He only has 2 more receptions in the second half than the first half over the last two seasons. I'm not sure why you think he is busier in the passing game in the second half.
I just see Willis as rythm back. He's gotten more looks as a reciever in the 2nd half. I know it's not sa huge significant change but from all the games I watch he name gets called more often in the 2nd half. It may not necesarily be in terms of yardage or stats but he does control the clock better.

[PECKERWOOD]

He does get less carries in the second half, but that is not the issue. The issue is his YPC drops dramatically. That was true last year and remains true so far this year. You seem to be remembering the McGahee from his rookie year. He has not been as effective over the last season and a half.

He only has 2 more receptions in the second half than the first half over the last two seasons. I'm not sure why you think he is busier in the passing game in the second half.

There is a very reasonable explanation for this. Defenses dont stack the box right away in the first half, and seeing how Willis usually carries the rock 25+ times a game, as the game wears on it, the defense starts to anticipate the run more, making it harder to get more bang for your buck.

Look at his YPC when the game is tied though.. That shows that he comes through when it matters the most. Usually when Buffalo is losing, we are losing hard! So having good stats when were losing is really just padding the stats.

[Typ0]

There is a very reasonable explanation for this. Defenses dont stack the box right away in the first half, and seeing how Willis usually carries the rock 25+ times a game, as the game wears on it, the defense starts to anticipate the run more, making it harder to get more bang for your buck.

Look at his YPC when the game is tied though.. That shows that he comes through when it matters the most. Usually when Buffalo is losing, we are losing hard! So having good stats when were losing is really just padding the stats.

not true. Defenses know JP stinks and he holds on to the ball too much and they do start to stack the box right away. Since JP is only looking for one receiver downfield he does not make the passes he needs to make to get those guys to stay honest to the pass...then the OLine looks like crap because they are getting the middles stuffed up all the time.

[PECKERWOOD]

Interesting note, statistic wise. Willis has more success rushing on the left side (obvious.. ), But he has better success recieving on the right side. Is this Steve Fairchild's way of making up for our inept right side of the OL?

[PECKERWOOD]

not true. Defenses know JP stinks and he holds on to the ball too much and they do start to stack the box right away. Since JP is only looking for one receiver downfield he does not make the passes he needs to make to get those guys to stay honest to the pass...then the OLine looks like crap because they are getting the middles stuffed up all the time.


not true. Defenses know JP stinks and he holds on to the ball too much and they do start to stack the box right away

Not true, they wait to see what kind of game JP is having first. JP has been very inconsistent this year, so you really dont know what JP you are going to see each Sunday. He beat the Jets and Vikings like a drum through the air, and you better believe that defenses have watched film of those 2 games.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Interesting note, statistic wise. Willis has more success rushing on the left side (obvious.. ), But he has better success recieving on the right side. Is this Steve Fairchild's way of making up for our inept right side of the OL?

I actually found the success on the left odd. They have just demoted their left tackle and left guard......