Time Before Being Sacked...

[Yasgur's Farm]

To back up my claims of stopwatch times of 2, 2, 3, 3, 4 on the 5 sacks...

Here's what Tiger Hoods had to say at bb.com

http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/1/1361917/ShowThread.aspx (http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/1/1361917/ShowThread.aspx)

First off, I want to thank the guy that uploaded the game at the website. http://timekills.org/WordPress/

A lot of people claimed to be taking a stopwatch to the game, to which I'll say that it's a bunch of utter nonsense. Realistically, when you're watching your favorite team play in a must win game at home, the last thing that you're going to do is pull out a stopwatch amidst the whole game, especially when one can't predict when there's going to be a run and when there's going to be a pass. And let's be honest, no one is interested in J.P. Losman's development ot the point where their whole focal point of watching a football game is to monitor his time in the pocket.

Nor do I believe that anyone Tivo'd the game to count his time in the pocket. Yet, everyone seems to be an expert as to how much time he had in the pocket. Some say he had litle time, others say he had plenty of time. We all can go based on what we saw and what we believe to be the time allowed in the pocket. But the only way to know for sure is to really run the clock.

So, I did.

Now, let me explain how I did it. I started the clock the moment the ball was snapped and ran it on several occasions. I stopped the clock the moment he was hit. I think many people stop the count when he's on the floor, but it's pointless if he's wrapped up already. I also marked whether it was shotgun and if it was from the shotgun, I started the clock when the ball arrived in his hands. Bear in mind, it takes a whole second to get from 0 to 1, but I also think people just count 1 upon the snap. Regardless, if you want to refute the point, that's fine. But I may be off by .1 or .2. My point is though, that a time of 2.5 and 2.7 isn't that ample a difference.

Here's what I found

1st Quarter
2-9-BUF46(4:51) J.Losman sacked at BUF 35 for -11 yards (A.Kampman) 2.59 seconds (Sack 1)

3-4-BUF47(1:08) (Shotgun) J.Losman sacked at BUF 39 for -8 yards (C.Williams) 3.07 seconds (Sack 2) It’s in this part where the commentator says, “That is the weakness of this Buffalo Bills team. The Offensive Line.”

2nd Quarter
3-6-GB45(9:26) (Shotgun) J.Losman scrambles up the middle to GB 41 for 4 yards (A.Hawk) Pocket collapsed at 2.67 seconds, so he scrambles, play ends at 4.55

3-4-BUF17(3:17) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass incomplete deep left to L.Evans (A.Harris). Receiver and coverage along sideline at BUF 47. 2.51 seconds, was hit which caused the erratic throw.

3rd Quarter

1-10-BUF20(4:09) J.Losman sacked at BUF 10 for -10 yards (C.Jenkins, K.Gbaja-Biamila). Full sack credited to C.Jenkins, assist to K.Gbaja-Biamila. 3.14 seconds. (Sack 3) This was a 5 man blitz. Looked like a 6 man but one dropped back. I don't know if he can audible or not.

3-25-BUF5(3:26) J.Losman sacked at BUF 3 for -2 yards (C.Williams). 4.09 seconds. (Sack 4) This is the one where the O-Line stood there looking around. This is also the same one where this is credited as a coverage sack. The coverage left no options so he had to eat it.

At this point in the game, he has been Sacked 4 times, Hit 1, Hurried 5, and Blitzed 2 times. It's uncanny that all this is the result of a four man rush.

No one can be expected to perform under these conditions, especially when they are under the proverbial training wheels and probably can't check off the coverage or when there's no one open.

[Pride]

Damn impressive work!

[Saratoga Slim]

Oh please, if a QB can't read a defense, find an open receiver, and get an accurate pass off in 2.59 seconds, he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL. In 2.59 seconds Tom Brady could complete THREE passes and still have time to write a love note to Deion Branch. Stop blaming everything on the OL, JP is clearly the only weak link on offense.

/sarcasm

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

Nice Work! Now to make a comparison you should do one with Tom Brady or Peyton Manning!

[Elminster]

Oh please, if a QB can't read a defense, find an open receiver, and get an accurate pass off in 2.59 seconds, he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL. In 2.59 seconds Tom Brady could complete THREE passes and still have time to write a love note to Deion Branch. Stop blaming everything on the OL, JP is clearly the only weak link on offense.
A receiver actually has to get open before you can hit an open receiver...

[Saratoga Slim]

A receiver actually has to get open before you can hit an open receiver...

Well yes, I agree. I was BEING SARCASTIC.

[Inetpub]

A receiver actually has to get open before you can hit an open receiver...

yes and when the receivers run the 40 in 4.4 seconds, 2.59 seconds he'll be down field 20 yards plus airtime on the ball, thats a 30 yard gain.

By that time, ANY receiver should be open.

[Elminster]

Well yes, I agree. I was BEING SARCASTIC.
Sarcasm doesn't carry well over the internet when there're so many people who'd say that and mean it...:oops:

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oh please, if a QB can't read a defense, find an open receiver, and get an accurate pass off in 2.59 seconds, he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL. In 2.59 seconds Tom Brady could complete THREE passes and still have time to write a love note to Deion Branch. Stop blaming everything on the OL, JP is clearly the only weak link on offense.

/sarcasm
You're lucky for the /sarcasm line. I was just gonna neg you to hell.

[The_Philster]

:bf1: Excellent work

[Mudflap1]

The only thing I don't agree with is I think the stopwatch should start with a shotgun play at the snap, not when the ball is in Losman's hands. The point of the shotgun is to give the quarterback an extra advantage of seeing the defense standing back there with the ball being snapped to him.

That being said, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the offensive line is good or even average. The same thing some are saying for Losman ("you can't expect him to make a play in 2.59 seconds") can be said for the receivers, you can't expect them to get open in that short of a time either.

Watching the game Sunday without a stopwatch, I definitely thought that a lot of the pressure J.P. was under was not his fault (for holding onto the ball too long). However, he did have time on some pass plays, did make some bad throws, did not show leadership abilities, threw late at times, etc. The Bills did win though, and J.P., while it was underthrown, made a play in the 4th quarter and got the job done.

While there is merit with this thread and argument, Losman is still a far cry from being a difference-making asset, or even just an asset, on this team.

But he did get it done on Sunday. Never said it had to be pretty. I'll take it.

Jon

[Typ0]

I do not have the game Tivod and even if I did I wouldnt spend the time to verify these statistics...but I also would not be surprised if they werent weighted towards the arguement hes trying to make. I was at a party and distinctly remember counting him holding the ball and getting to five. It takes a second to start and stop a timer almost.

But the end result is going to be the same anyway. Defenses have no respect for JP Losman. They just rush at him and dont worry about crap at the LOS because hes clueless. JP is going to have to take some initiative and make some things happen that are going to garner him some respect in the passing game or this is the way its going to be.

[Typ0]

Im not saying the OLine is good either. Im saying JP stinks right now because JP stinks right now. Sure, he could get some help and that would work to cover up the fact that he stinks. But he still stinks.

[Michael82]

Good work! It's about time someone states the facts with the amount of time he actually gets. :bf1:

[Jan Reimers]

Nice Work! Now to make a comparison you should do one with Tom Brady or Peyton Manning!
I think that such a comparison would demonstrate that Brady and Manning hardly ever have the D in their face in 2.5 seconds - and when they do, it ain't so pretty, either.

I saw only one occasion Sunday when JP held the ball too long on a sack, and that may have been because his receivers were covered. In that case, however, he should have thrown it away.

I'm frustrated with JP, too, but I know that part of his problem is the O line's poor pass protection, part is a less than stellar receiving corps, and part is playcalling which doesn't really take advantage of his skills.

I just don't know how much each of those parts contribute, and how much is JP himself.

[Typ0]

I just don't know how much each of those parts contribute, and how much is JP himself.

that's about as good as I've ever seen this whole mess summed up..and there isn't any reliable model to indicate which is which either. Every damn thing is a variable. You can't look at what other QBs have done with other OLines. We have no control group so we have no way to test. We're just plain screwed and spinning in circles constantly wasting our efforts trying to figure out something we're never going to figure out. The coaches and management staff at OBD is in the same boat we are other than they have a little better information.

[TacklingDummy]

People can come up with all the excuses they want but deep down in everyone knows JP sucks.

[PECKERWOOD]

People can come up with all the excuses they want but deep down in everyone knows JP sucks.

lol

[X-Era]

I do not have the game Tivod and even if I did I wouldnt spend the time to verify these statistics...but I also would not be surprised if they werent weighted towards the arguement hes trying to make. I was at a party and distinctly remember counting him holding the ball and getting to five. It takes a second to start and stop a timer almost.

But the end result is going to be the same anyway. Defenses have no respect for JP Losman. They just rush at him and dont worry about crap at the LOS because hes clueless. JP is going to have to take some initiative and make some things happen that are going to garner him some respect in the passing game or this is the way its going to be.

So someone put forth the effort to kill arguements against JP, and you refute them with "evidence" from a party where you were likely drinking. You then go on to state, that its JP's fault because defenses dont respect him.

Thanks, but that nothing more than deflecting the arguement with no data. You lost credibility right here.

[X-Era]

yes and when the receivers run the 40 in 4.4 seconds, 2.59 seconds he'll be down field 20 yards plus airtime on the ball, thats a 30 yard gain.

By that time, ANY receiver should be open.

Yes, I forgot, defenses only cover the first 30 yards and there arent any DB's that also run 4.4 forties.

Another person who lost credibility.

[Typ0]

So someone put forth the effort to kill arguements against JP, and you refute them with "evidence" from a party where you were likely drinking. You then go on to state, that its JP's fault because defenses dont respect him.

Thanks, but that nothing more than deflecting the arguement with no data. You lost credibility right here.


it was a kids birthday party...and what if I said I set up my computer and synched it with the broadcast...and then analyzed it frame by frame along with the time on the clock? What would you say then? Would you believe me? No, you wouldn't. That makes my point that some guy posting it on a message board does not make it true. Like I said, I would like more tests and I don't personally have the time to do that and I don't have it on TIVO anyway.

By the way, are you Brian H? I know there are a lot of alias around here.

[SABURZFAN]

just when you think you've heard every excuse.now some nobody named Tiger Hoods comes out of nowhere with nonsense to mask that losman really sucks and the buttlickers are all over it like a fat girl on fudge.what a bunch of frickin homers.....

[YardRat]

Tiger's watch is off, or broken.

I got 3.11, 4.42, 3.37 (when the pocket actually "collapses" is a judgement call), 3.77, 3.51, & 5.22.

[Typ0]

Tiger's watch is off, or broken.

I got 3.11, 4.42, 3.37 (when the pocket actually "collapses" is a judgement call), 3.77, 3.51, & 5.22.


what do you say now Brian?

[Yasgur's Farm]

I say BS... I'm watching it again right now... It amazes me as to what extent you bashers will lie.

I will testify 100% to tiger hoods numbers. I've verified them by watching replay 2 times now. SNAP TO 1ST HIT.

http://timekills.org/WordPress/2006/11/05/packers-at-bills-game-8/

[SABURZFAN]

Tiger's watch is off, or broken.

I got 3.11, 4.42, 3.37 (when the pocket actually "collapses" is a judgement call), 3.77, 3.51, & 5.22.



Tiger Hoods.....give me a frickin break. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

I say BS... I'm watching it again right now... It amazes me as to what extent you bashers will lie.



the only thing that's BS is our friggin QB.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

wow! great homework! I am shocked at how little time he has to throw. My perception may have changed a bit after reading this. Thanks!

[Typ0]

I say BS... I'm watching it again right now... It amazes me as to what extent you bashers will lie.

I will testify 100% to tiger hoods numbers. I've verified them by watching replay 2 times now. SNAP TO 1ST HIT.

http://timekills.org/WordPress/2006/11/05/packers-at-bills-game-8/


Oh, that explains a lot. That video isn't playing at a real time rate. It's accelarated.

[Typ0]

wow! great homework! I am shocked at how little time he has to throw. My perception may have changed a bit after reading this. Thanks!


Did you know that OJ Simpson didn't do it?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Oh, that explains a lot. That video isn't playing at a real time rate. It's accelarated.LMAO... You'll stoop to any level won't you?

BTW, I have a very good download rate... It took me more than 10 minutes to download... You expect anyone to believe you downloaded and watched a whole quarters in less than 6 minutes?

[SABURZFAN]

i wonder what Tony the Tiger's opinion is? :rolleyes:

[Inetpub]

Rather than make more excuses, you guys ever consider JP is a known dummy on the field and almost all defenses blitz him cause they know hes going to panick?

You seriously must be idiots for posting comparisons vs Manning and Brady. Why would a defense want to rush them when they know Manning will have gotten rid of the ball TO AN OPEN RECIEVER before they ever can get a hand on them? Wouldnt you guys rush a moron QB that is indecisive? Wouldnt you play more zone defense if you know the QB is a smart one and if you rush him, hes going to make you pay for your mistake?

Oh I forgot. This post is about how JP doesnt have enough time. Maybe its because EVERYONE in the NFL knows hes a dummy. Now why dont you all learn what everyone else knows before your blaming EVERY person on the Buffalo Bills team?

This isnt JP's Team. This is the Buffalo Bills. If you want to blame EVERY BILL for JP's downfall, the common ground is JP. Its not everyone's fault JP sucks. ITs JPs.

[Inetpub]

Has someone not blamed the ****ING waterboy for JP sucking? JP's not getting enough water. Fire that ****ing waterboy. He sucks at his job and isnt doing it properly if JP is crappy on the field!

[Typ0]

LMAO... You'll stoop to any level won't you?



thanks, I thought it was funny too so I said it ;).

[Typ0]

Has someone not blamed the ****ING waterboy for JP sucking? JP's not getting enough water. Fire that ****ing waterboy. He sucks at his job and isnt doing it properly if JP is crappy on the field!

it's not the quantity of the water it's the water temperature that is the problem.

[Inetpub]

or wait. What about JP's girlfriend? Shes not putting out as much lately cause JP's getting the action from his nuthuggers. I blame his girlfriend for not being into threesomes cause then if she was, JP's might throw 40 TDs the next game!

Lets blame JP's priest. Hes gotta be the source of JP's stupidity. If the priest had beat him more in school, JP would have learned more.

Lets see, how about JP's car? If he was driving a red car, maybe he could get to work faster and be able to know the plays better.

How about JP's ipod. If it played the right songs, JP would have a record setting day on the field.

I can blame everything too. But at the end of the day, the ONLY person accountable for JP's playing, is JP himself!

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Did you know that OJ Simpson didn't do it? go pound salt TypO:penalty:
not really, but that was a stupid comment

[The_Philster]

or wait. What about JP's girlfriend? Shes not putting out as much lately cause JP's getting the action from his nuthuggers. I blame his girlfriend for not being into threesomes cause then if she was, JP's might throw 40 TDs the next game!

Lets blame JP's priest. Hes gotta be the source of JP's stupidity. If the priest had beat him more in school, JP would have learned more.

Lets see, how about JP's car? If he was driving a red car, maybe he could get to work faster and be able to know the plays better.

How about JP's ipod. If it played the right songs, JP would have a record setting day on the field.

I can blame everything too. But at the end of the day, the ONLY person accountable for JP's playing, is JP himself!
find us one post where anyone is blaming JP's play on anyone else :rolleyes: Otherwise, please quit flooding the boards wth your nonsense

[Inetpub]

find us one post where anyone is blaming JP's play on anyone else :rolleyes: Otherwise, please quit flooding the boards wth your nonsense
Lets see..Ive seen it blamed on the OLINE, the OLINE, the OLINE. Ive seen it blamed on the fact he doesnt have time on the OLINE.

Or wait. Better yet, ive seen it blamed on the DEFENSE. Seeing as JP plays OFFENSE, JP's worst cause the Defense cant keep the other guys off the scoreboard.

Ive seen it blamed on every reciever. Ive seen it blamed on coaches. Or best, because hes a rookie. Seeing as it is his third year. Or better yet, THIS POST WHICH NOW BLAMES IT ON HIS TIME IN THE POCKET!

Need more? Cause Ive seen people blame it on the ****ing waterboy too! Although I admit I blamed it on the waterboy! LOL.

[Inetpub]

Did I say the OLINE YET? Its always the OLINEs Fault.

[PECKERWOOD]

Did I say the OLINE YET? Its always the OLINEs Fault.

According to you, its never their fault, though? :huh:

[SABURZFAN]

anybody seen Tigger?i want his opinion.

[The_Philster]

The QB is judged on his decision-making primarily. When asked how he would judge the QBs this preseason when they're going against different levels of competition, Jauron said decision-making
Lets see..Ive seen it blamed on the OLINE, the OLINE, the OLINE. Ive seen it blamed on the fact he doesnt have time on the OLINE.
If a QB doesn't have time to get set, then yes..that's the O-line...it's not a slam on the QB's performance...how can his decision-making be called into question if he isn't given time to do anything? He has held onto the ball too long at times...but I repeat...at times

Or wait. Better yet, ive seen it blamed on the DEFENSE. Seeing as JP plays OFFENSE, JP's worst cause the Defense cant keep the other guys off the scoreboard.link? :rolleyes:


Ive seen it blamed on every reciever. Ive seen it blamed on coaches. Or best, because hes a rookie. Seeing as it is his third year. Or better yet, THIS POST WHICH NOW BLAMES IT ON HIS TIME IN THE POCKET! WRs have to get open or if he throws them the ball, it's an interception or at least an incompletion. We don't have WRs who can consistently get the ball away from the defender when he's closely covered. Evans may be getting there, but the last WR we had with that capability is in Houston. Sometimes, JP needs to have a little more faith in his WRs to get open...that I will agree on

As far as coaching, he doesn't call his own plays and we don't know how much audibling he's allowed to do at this point. If the play called isn't going to do well against the defense that's called by the opponents, all he can do is his best...if his best isn't good enough, then is it fair that he should get the blame for a bad play call? If he is allowed free reign at audibling out of bad plays, which, considering how they've kept him reined in a lot this season, I find hard to believe, then yes, he should be given the blame.

[Inetpub]

According to you, its never their fault, though? :huh:
I never said its never thier fault. I said everyone on here blames every person on the team but JP. Its time we start blaming JP also. If you guys want to blame anyone for JP's play, BLAME JP.

If you want to put words into my mouth, use my quotes. Dont use your guess. Thats how you read my posts. Not how I am writing them.

I just simply said JP needs to be accountable. If you guys are blaming every known circumstance known to football on why JP is bad, why dont you just cut to the chase and blame the common thread. JP is bad.

[LtBillsFan66]

How many other QBs get the same pressure but step up in the pocket to avoid a sack or roll out?

[The_Philster]

I never said its never thier fault. I said everyone on here blames every person on the team but JP. Its time we start blaming JP also. If you guys want to blame anyone for JP's play, BLAME JP.

If you want to put words into my mouth, use my quotes. Dont use your guess. Thats how you read my posts. Not how I am writing them.

I just simply said JP needs to be accountable. If you guys are blaming every known circumstance known to football on why JP is bad, why dont you just cut to the chase and blame the common thread. JP is bad.
looks like selective reading on your part...the "JP lovers" have called JP to task, to an extent, when its his fault..maybe they don't blame him as much as you do, but he does receive blame. Hell, ICE just about threw in the towel on him a few weeks ago...and there are a lot of us with our feet dangling off the bandwagon after that bad stretch of games.

[X-Era]

what do you say now Brian?

What do YOU say besides regirgitated crap from other hate spewers?

You have NO data here, do your work.

[Philagape]

Well this thread sure has reduced the haters to simple-minded rhetoric.

"He sucks huh huh he sucks huh huh he sucks huh huh"

[Saratoga Slim]

How many other QBs get the same pressure but step up in the pocket to avoid a sack or roll out?

Andrew Walter?

[PECKERWOOD]

I never said its never thier fault. I said everyone on here blames every person on the team but JP. Its time we start blaming JP also. If you guys want to blame anyone for JP's play, BLAME JP.

If you want to put words into my mouth, use my quotes. Dont use your guess. Thats how you read my posts. Not how I am writing them.

I just simply said JP needs to be accountable. If you guys are blaming every known circumstance known to football on why JP is bad, why dont you just cut to the chase and blame the common thread. JP is bad.

Did I not quote you? I asked you a question, not an accusation. So I'm not putting any words into your mouth.


I just simply said JP needs to be accountable. If you guys are blaming every known circumstance known to football on why JP is bad, why dont you just cut to the chase and blame the common thread. JP is bad

This is a great thread, read my opening post. I was fair in my assessment on JP, seems like many people agreed with it. But, I dont hold JP accountable at all. Thats a blank statement, based off of JACK DIDLY ___. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=112682


You can dodge any questions thrown at you, all you want. Its never the OL's fault, never our WR's fault, its always just JP's fault. How about you criticize JP fairly? Look, Im not saying JP is our savior here. But atleast when I support or criticize JP, I am fair about it. Its so one sided with you. You have not ONCE said anything positive JP has done. How about you draw a list of positives and negatives? Instead of being such a biased jackass.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Haters - "He holds onto the ball too long. He was sacked 5 times."
Supporters - "Look, see... Here's the time he's had before being hit."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the O-line and the waterboy."

Haters - "LOL.... 100 yards. You gotta be kidding me. He sucks... worst in the league"
Supporters - "He was only allowed to throw 15 times. In fact, his yards per attempt, TD ratio, turnover ratio and passer rating are pretty good. Furthermore, those stats for the season are quite respectable."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the coaches and the waterboy."

Haters - "OMG.... I can't believe you nuthuggers still support him. He can't even hit a wide open Evans in stride."
Supporters - "Evans got both hands on the ball... That should, or at least could have been caught. Royal dropped one too."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the receivers and the waterboy."

You can tell this thread hit home with these knuckleheads... They resorted to lies and character assasination. But hell... That's what their whole argument is based on.

[HHURRICANE]

Good work! It's about time someone states the facts with the amount of time he actually gets. :bf1:

Draz is the man! Him and BuffaloFever are the posters of the week!!!


4 seconds, 4 seonds, 4 seconds. You need 4 seconds. I have been saying it all season. JPHaters don't like facts!! This is an obvious one. If JP was hanging onto the ball for 5 seconds than it would be obvious that the sacks are on him.

By the way, whoever posted that the stopwatch should start when the ball hits JP hands in the shotgun should be reminded that the D starts when the ball is snapped.

[Inetpub]

Did I not quote you? I asked you a question, not an accusation. So I'm not putting any words into your mouth.



This is a great thread, read my opening post. I was fair in my assessment on JP, seems like many people agreed with it. But, I dont hold JP accountable at all. Thats a blank statement, based off of JACK DIDLY ___. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=112682


You can dodge any questions thrown at you, all you want. Its never the OL's fault, never our WR's fault, its always just JP's fault. How about you criticize JP fairly? Look, Im not saying JP is our savior here. But atleast when I support or criticize JP, I am fair about it. Its so one sided with you. You have not ONCE said anything positive JP has done. How about you draw a list of positives and negatives? Instead of being such a biased jackass.

Im fair about it too. Your opinion of "Fair" and mine differ. Whether your right or I am right, we both have two different opinions of Fairness. I simply choose to hold JP MORE accountable for JP's playing. You guys hold the OLine more accountable.

So if you want to say I am being biased, we all are biased. Your biased towards the OL and WRs. Im biased on JP. Now if you want to say I have never once said anything positive about JP, well thats probably true but really the only thing the guy has is an arm and feet. Otherwise why should I go above and beyond and consider JP a good QB when all he has shown is fumbles, idiocy and running into refs. The only way I will have more faith in JP is if JP shows me it. I am not going to go out of my way to brag about a deadbeat QB. I am not going through the RJ mess again. This time, I would rather be critical because after a decade of no playoffs, I think Bills fans deserve a reward for patience.

[Inetpub]

Rather than make more excuses, you guys ever consider JP is a known dummy on the field and almost all defenses blitz him cause they know hes going to panick?

You seriously must be idiots for posting comparisons vs Manning and Brady. Why would a defense want to rush them when they know Manning will have gotten rid of the ball TO AN OPEN RECIEVER before they ever can get a hand on them? Wouldnt you guys rush a moron QB that is indecisive? Wouldnt you play more zone defense if you know the QB is a smart one and if you rush him, hes going to make you pay for your mistake?

Oh I forgot. This post is about how JP doesnt have enough time. Maybe its because EVERYONE in the NFL knows hes a dummy. Now why dont you all learn what everyone else knows before your blaming EVERY person on the Buffalo Bills team?

This isnt JP's Team. This is the Buffalo Bills. If you want to blame EVERY BILL for JP's downfall, the common ground is JP. Its not everyone's fault JP sucks. ITs JPs. I still havent seen a reply on this one. Maybe you guys cant reply to it because its true? Has anyone ever counted how many times the Pats are blitzed? How many times in a game is Manning blitzed at? Then maybe compare them to JPs. Defenses will play different types of games when they know the QBs are better. They'll play a safer game and ensure that the only passes the QB can try to get off are 5-6 yard wideouts rather than get burned for 40 yards if they blitzed the QB.

[Yasgur's Farm]

By the way, whoever posted that the stopwatch should start when the ball hits JP hands in the shotgun should be reminded that the D starts when the ball is snapped.Agreed.

[ICE74129]

yes and when the receivers run the 40 in 4.4 seconds, 2.59 seconds he'll be down field 20 yards plus airtime on the ball, thats a 30 yard gain.

By that time, ANY receiver should be open.

Thats a flat out lie. 40 yards in 4.4 seconds is with no pads, perfect conditions etc. It doesn't take in account a route actually ran, DB's checking you at the los and lastly....a DB Just as fast as you that you have to find a way to break away from.

[ICE74129]

Haters - "He holds onto the ball too long. He was sacked 5 times."
Supporters - "Look, see... Here's the time he's had before being hit."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the O-line and the waterboy."

Haters - "LOL.... 100 yards. You gotta be kidding me. He sucks... worst in the league"
Supporters - "He was only allowed to throw 15 times. In fact, his yards per attempt, TD ratio, turnover ratio and passer rating are pretty good. Furthermore, those stats for the season are quite respectable."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the coaches and the waterboy."

Haters - "OMG.... I can't believe you nuthuggers still support him. He can't even hit a wide open Evans in stride."
Supporters - "Evans got both hands on the ball... That should, or at least could have been caught. Royal dropped one too."
Haters - "Sure, sure... Blame the receivers and the waterboy."

You can tell this thread hit home with these knuckleheads... They resorted to lies and character assasination. But hell... That's what their whole argument is based on.

It always has been

[ICE74129]

I still havent seen a reply on this one. Maybe you guys cant reply to it because its true? Has anyone ever counted how many times the Pats are blitzed? How many times in a game is Manning blitzed at? Then maybe compare them to JPs. Defenses will play different types of games when they know the QBs are better. They'll play a safer game and ensure that the only passes the QB can try to get off are 5-6 yard wideouts rather than get burned for 40 yards if they blitzed the QB.

No it was just too damn stupid to reply to. Its a pure hate thread that reaks of a 5th grader lashing out when they can't accept the FACTS. FACTS are its been proven our OL sucks against just a 5-5 man rush. QB's need more than 2.5 seconds to throw and JP isn't getting it.

[Inetpub]

No it was just too damn stupid to reply to. Its a pure hate thread that reaks of a 5th grader lashing out when they can't accept the FACTS. FACTS are its been proven our OL sucks against just a 5-5 man rush. QB's need more than 2.5 seconds to throw and JP isn't getting it. How is that a bad post? Just because you say it is? LOL!

You guys are ****ing blind to the fact that defenses play QBs differently? Have you EVER counted how many times a Defense rushes Peyton Manning in a game? Do you seriously think your going to tell our guys to blitz Peyton Manning on even 50% of the plays this week? NO. He is going to burn us if we did.

JP lovers just want to hear what they think. If they dont, all they can do is groan and moan. And you have statistical fact EVERY play JP is in, he only gets 2.5 seconds? Last game, there were times beyond 4 seconds he held the ball for and he threw it short. Or the game prior where he had a week to make a decision when he threw that interception to the sideline because he threw it short on Evans. Give me a break with your 2.5 second analogy. This Oline isnt the best but they give him enough time to decide. He should be scoping the field before the snap and then take the 2 seconds to decide then throw. Sure it would be nice to have extra time but you have to play the hand you are dealt!

If JP cant play that hand, he shouldnt be playing. LOL. If you want to talk about facts, I'll show you Rob Johnson's stats and wins. ALL ARE BETTER THAN JPs. Do I want RJ back then? Hes probably a better option at the moment.

[alohabillsfan]

Was't the previous regime working with the statue (Bledsoe) in training camp etc.. blowing a whistle at 4secs signaling that the ball needs to be gone, 4 SECONDS!!!! NOW WE NEED A LINE THAT CAN SUSTAIN A BLOCK FOR 4 SECONDS NOT 2.5

[TacklingDummy]

How many other QBs get the same pressure but step up in the pocket to avoid a sack or roll out?

Please keep the facts out of this.

[PECKERWOOD]

Im fair about it too. Your opinion of "Fair" and mine differ. Whether your right or I am right, we both have two different opinions of Fairness. I simply choose to hold JP MORE accountable for JP's playing. You guys hold the OLine more accountable.

So if you want to say I am being biased, we all are biased. Your biased towards the OL and WRs. Im biased on JP. Now if you want to say I have never once said anything positive about JP, well thats probably true but really the only thing the guy has is an arm and feet. Otherwise why should I go above and beyond and consider JP a good QB when all he has shown is fumbles, idiocy and running into refs. The only way I will have more faith in JP is if JP shows me it. I am not going to go out of my way to brag about a deadbeat QB. I am not going through the RJ mess again. This time, I would rather be critical because after a decade of no playoffs, I think Bills fans deserve a reward for patience.

My definition of fair, is looking at both sides of the fence and understanding the circumstances involved in the situation.


So if you want to say I am being biased, we all are biased. Your biased towards the OL and WRs. Im biased on JP. Now if you want to say I have never once said anything positive about JP, well thats probably true but really the only thing the guy has is an arm and feet.

Actually, I'm not biased towards the line or WR's. I'm one of the few people that have supported Gandy, and still continue to support Gandy. Peters, Gandy and Fowler are all good players. We just need help on the right side of the line, how is that not fair?

As far as our WR's go. Evans and parrish are the only ones worth keeping, imo. I think thats fair, seeing how those 2 are the only ones that make plays for us somewhat consistently. It's no secret we need a big #2 WR. I'm not sure how that assessment is biased. I actually saw many JP bashers posting in the "We Need New WR's" thread. It was pretty humurous, its all JP's fault when the WR's dont get open in a game. But when were not talking about JP anymore, we need new WR's.

JP hasn't been good this season, but he has improved dramatically since last season. His season so far has been like a roller coaster, and is making alot of people around here bipolar. Sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, but sometimes WR's cant get open, can contribute to that. Notice how no one was getting open consistently against GB? JP did underthrow a couple passes against GB to be fair, his TD pass to Lee Evans was thrown while he was getting hit. He has had trouble at times reading defenses, which I expected. But at times he makes perfect reads on the defense, and makes a big play.. In the end, we havent seen enough of JP this season to determine whether or not he is a bust. But from the looks of it, JP will most likely be here next year also.

[ICE74129]

How many other QBs get the same pressure but step up in the pocket to avoid a sack or roll out?none since the pressure is usually coming up the middle

[ICE74129]

Please keep the facts out of this.Agreed you ignore them all the time

[Michael82]

Draz is the man! Him and BuffaloFever are the posters of the week!!!


4 seconds, 4 seonds, 4 seconds. You need 4 seconds. I have been saying it all season. JPHaters don't like facts!! This is an obvious one. If JP was hanging onto the ball for 5 seconds than it would be obvious that the sacks are on him.

By the way, whoever posted that the stopwatch should start when the ball hits JP hands in the shotgun should be reminded that the D starts when the ball is snapped.
Good post. :bf1:

[X-Era]

Lets see..Ive seen it blamed on the OLINE, the OLINE, the OLINE. Ive seen it blamed on the fact he doesnt have time on the OLINE.

Or wait. Better yet, ive seen it blamed on the DEFENSE. Seeing as JP plays OFFENSE, JP's worst cause the Defense cant keep the other guys off the scoreboard.

Ive seen it blamed on every reciever. Ive seen it blamed on coaches. Or best, because hes a rookie. Seeing as it is his third year. Or better yet, THIS POST WHICH NOW BLAMES IT ON HIS TIME IN THE POCKET!

Need more? Cause Ive seen people blame it on the ****ing waterboy too! Although I admit I blamed it on the waterboy! LOL.

Nobody is foolish enough to think its ALL one area, one scheme, one player (well some fools think its all JP). Its a TEAM game, the TEAM doesnt have enough talent overall to win more or they would. JP is a part of that, no doubt about it. JP has made plenty of mistakes, no doubt about that either. But the notion that the whole thing is JP's fault, or even mostly, is foolish.

You cant blame one guy any more than you can blame it all on the o-line.

[Typ0]

Nobody is foolish enough to think its ALL one area, one scheme, one player (well some fools think its all JP). Its a TEAM game, the TEAM doesnt have enough talent overall to win more or they would. JP is a part of that, no doubt about it. JP has made plenty of mistakes, no doubt about that either. But the notion that the whole thing is JP's fault, or even mostly, is foolish.

You cant blame one guy any more than you can blame it all on the o-line.

So you agree then. We fix the OLine, get another stud receiver and a dominant TE and we are still screwed because JP still sucks.

[X-Era]

So you agree then. We fix the OLine, get another stud receiver and a dominant TE and we are still screwed because JP still sucks.

Nope, you continue to be just plain wrong.

Chianging the o-line could make JP better, might not. Changing the QB might make the o-line look better, might not.

Same thing and many knuckleheads here will have to get the point eventually or just be proven completely wrong.

[YardRat]

By the way, whoever posted that the stopwatch should start when the ball hits JP hands in the shotgun should be reminded that the D starts when the ball is snapped.


That would be the gentleman that did the original 'study', Tiger Hoods. I take it you agree that his figures are on the low side, then, since he hesitated to start his watch at the proper moment?

Here's the comment from the initial post...


I also marked whether it was shotgun and if it was from the shotgun, I started the clock when the ball arrived in his hands.

[X-Era]

That would be the gentleman that did the original 'study', Tiger Hoods. I take it you agree that his figures are on the low side, then, since he hesitated to start his watch at the proper moment?

Here's the comment from the initial post...
How frikkin stupid.

The D waits until the ball hits JP in the hands when hes in the shotgun?

NO, Dwight (Freeney), didnt you get the memo that you cant start to rush until the ball is in his hands? YOu have to count mississippi's.

What a joke. How dumb, I have now heard it all.

[X-Era]

Was't the previous regime working with the statue (Bledsoe) in training camp etc.. blowing a whistle at 4secs signaling that the ball needs to be gone, 4 SECONDS!!!! NOW WE NEED A LINE THAT CAN SUSTAIN A BLOCK FOR 4 SECONDS NOT 2.5

The magic number I heard was three.

But anyone who has watched Tom Brady sit back there for 5, sometimes 6 seconds knows that the more time you give your QB the better.

Receivers routes are setup so that they make their moves when the ball is thrown, if the QB is rushed, they often arent in their cuts yet. That means theres no where to throw it to; none of the WR's are looking yet.

[SABURZFAN]

How frikkin stupid.

The D waits until the ball hits JP in the hands when hes in the shotgun?

NO, Dwight (Freeney), didnt you get the memo that you cant start to rush until the ball is in his hands? YOu have to count mississippi's.

What a joke. How dumb, I have now heard it all.


but yet,YOU thanked the initial post.how frikken stupid do you feel now?

[X-Era]

but yet,YOU thanked the initial post.how frikken stupid do you feel now?
Absolutely, theres no arguement that JP isnt getting the time he needs to throw. I believe in the .1 to .3 of a second off for time it hits his hands.

Facts are fact though, the D moves on the snap.

.1 to .3 does NOT mark a "low"side its still a joke. We are talking abvout comparing guys like Peyton and Tom Brady who have 4 to 5 seconds to throw to JP who has between 2.5 and 2.8????

Gimme a frikkin break.

Our o-line doesnt help the cause at all, they dont deserve all the blame, but they deserve a good amount for sure.