Today's Best Post on bb.com

[Yasgur's Farm]

ChiliConCarnage offers the following analysis of JP... http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/AddPost.aspx?PostID=1363294&Quote=True

Enjoy. (To JP bashers... Please save yourself the embarassment).



Well I promised Clarkus I’d have this article ready asap, so I put a rush on it. Here’s to you.
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WARNING: This post is long. Like seriously, unreasonably long. Get a coffee before you start.
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I have been writing analytical articles involving the defense and offense of the Buffalo Bills. If you need background on me or the opinions I have, my first article, entitled “Analysis From That Guy You’ve Never Heard Of” can be read here.
:
http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/thread/1361065.aspx
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My second post, a post titled “OMG LOSSSMAN SUXXX!!!!1!!!1!!!”, regarding offense, can be reached by accessing the following link:
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http://boards.buffalobills.com/forums/thread/1362107.aspx
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This post will focus specifically on JP Losman. There is an article in the works on the coaching staff, but it, like the Death Star, is not fully operational. This article will break down Losman in many regards, and attempt to perhaps offer different angles on what has become a very tired argument.
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Well let’s get into it, shall we?
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STATISTICS<o:p></o:p>
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212 Attempts
130 Completions
61.3 Completion %
1415 Passing Yards
6.67 Yards per Attempt
7 Touchdowns
6 Interceptions
80.2 Rating
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Let me be the first to say that statistics lie. Depending on the ability of the person manipulating them, they can tell you feasibly anything. For example:
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Drew Bledsoe only had one season when his passer rating was above 80 when he was with the Bills. It was 2002, when a half of a season of explosive offense convinced many that Tom Donahoe was a genius. In 2003 and 2004, Bledsoe’s rating was 73.0 and 76.6, respectively.
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We ran Bledsoe out of town on a rail. So looking at passer rating, Losman should be getting less flak, right? Especially considering Bledsoe had been starting for NINE seasons before coming to the Bills, and Losman has started ONE year before this year, and only 8 games of 2005 were starts.
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Matt Leinart, who some thought should have been taken by the Bills with the 8^th pick in last year’s draft, has a rating of 66.9 with one of the better receiving cores in the league.
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Alex Smith, whom many consider to be the most improved player in the league, has a QB rating of 79.7
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Byron Leftwich, whom some on the boards are clamoring for as Losman’s replacement in the off-season, has a rating of 79.0.
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Everyone is saying Mike Vick is “finally getting it” as a QB. His rating is 79.0 as well.
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Jake Delhomme, who most would consider a solid starter with a tremendous supporting cast and arguably the best receiver in the league in Steve Smith, has a rating of 80.3, a mere tenth of a percentage point higher than Losman’s.
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But wait, watch my hands. I’ve got an ace up my sleeve. I can manipulate these very same stats to mean something entirely different.
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A QB with better ratings than Losman and a far better track record was benched this year for poor play in favor of a rookie. His name? Kurt Warner. Warner made enough mistakes to be benched by coach Dennis Green, and his rating is still 81.9, a solid 1.7 points higher than Losman’s. By the way, he’s also a Super Bowl winner and two-time league MVP. So if HE gets benched for 81.9, shouldn’t Losman get benched for 80.2?
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“Well, Chili, the rating system is flawed. You can’t use it as a viable comparison.”
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Ok, I’ll bite. How about the max yardage efficiency statistic, yards per attempt (YPA)?
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Losman’s is 6.67. Remember Jake Delhomme, with one of the greatest deep threats in football? His is 6.41. The “most improved player in football” Alex Smith’s, who was a #1 overall pick in the draft, has a YPA of 6.66. When looked at this way. Losman’s numbers don’t seem too bad.
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But wait, here I go. Chad Pennington, who has quite possibly the weakest arm in football, has a YPA of 7.15. Kurt Warner got benched with a 7.45 YPA. Philip Rivers, who plays in a mostly horizontal attack and was criticized coming out of college for his awkward throwing motion and lack of arm strength, has a YPA of 7.34. How about Daunte Culpepper, who we were all making fun of because of his ineptness against the Bills this season? His YPA (before being benched for Joey Harrington) was 6.93. Looking at it from this angle, Losman looks pretty bad.
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Stats lie. Using them, you can make someone look as good or as bad as you want, so I thought I’d throw them out there to remove all statistical arguments right off the bat.
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FILM STUDY<o:p></o:p>
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I am an avid film buff. I love to watch tape on players.
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LOTS of tape.
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It’s the only way I know to really know who a player is, underneath the numbers. So I watch tape of Losman.
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LOTS of tape.
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Here’s some observations:
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STANCE
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Losman stands in the pocket more like javelin thrower, as opposed to Bledsoe, who stood like a baseball pitcher. Losman carries the ball up high, by his ear, as much as he can. This tends to allow his release to gain speed when compared to a Drew Bledsoe or a Byron Leftwich (who, as a side note might have the slowest release I’ve ever seen. He doesn’t throw, he winds up.). It also has a tendency to put a very horizontal motion on his throws, which means when he wants to loft a ball (say, a 30 yard fly with man coverage?), he needs to bring it down before he brings it up. We saw a great example of this with the deep throw to Lee in the Green Bay game. Because of the extra time this maneuver requires, it means his short- to intermediate- releases are faster, but his deep throws are slower. It’s a fair trade-off, but something to note.
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EYES
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Losman telegraphs. We all know this. But do you know why?
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“it’s BEECAUS he suxx fool!!”
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Swing and a miss.
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Losman wants to make a play. He wants to throw into that window barely bigger than the ball. He wants to make people go “holy crap what a throw”. Problem is, he concentrates on that throw for too long before he decides he wants to make it. He keeps waiting for the perfect time for the perfect throw, but sometimes you have to make a “good” throw at a “good” time, and he doesn’t want to do it. This can really get out of hand for JP. In the Jets game, he stared down a wide open flat route by Willis, and threw the ball too high. He wanted to make a play, but he just made me sick.
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This is correctable. Does it get corrected? With time, it can be. Which brings me to:
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ATTITUDE
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Losman wants to be perfect. He knows he will never be. But he wants to be. Know who else is like that? Peyton Manning.
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“OMG you just sed JP = PAYTONE!! U SUK!”
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Read that again. I said they share ONE of the same qualities that you want to have in your QB. The strive for perfection.
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That being said, Losman has never been very good with the media. He’s brash and easily insulted, and seems annoyed every time someone talks to him. QBs inevitably become the face of the franchise, and nobody wants that as their face.
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SCHEME<o:p></o:p>
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The idea of “scheme” can be broken down into two parts: How the scheme fits Losman and how Losman fits the scheme. No they’re not the same thing. Allow me to explain.
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The first question is does the scheme Losman is in suit his abilities?
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Kinda.
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Fairchild wants to run a vertical offense with a strong-armed QB with overall decent accuracy on his deep ball. Sounds good so far.
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How about a QB who has a tendency to telegraph his throws? Starting to not sound so good. By simple laws of physics, it’s deep ball QBs who need to be able to look off safeties, because the ball will be in the air longer, allowing a defender more time to close if the QBs eyes are not right.
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How about a QB who holds the ball too long? Uh oh. Holding the ball too long on a drag route in ok, as your angle just gets slightly skewed. Holding the ball too long on a deep post = broken play.
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Suddenly Losman’s flaws become a little bit bigger of a deal. Now not only are they flaws, but they’re contradictory to the system he’s in.
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The second question is how does Losman work in the system he’s in?
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Not well, is the answer. He hasn’t adjusted as much as you’d like to this offense, hasn’t learned his hot routes and hasn’t learned to rear defenses as quickly as he should.
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Wait. One thing though.
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He’s been in this system for 8 games.
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Philip Rivers has sat 2 years and learned the same system, then went in and played in that same system. Losman hasn’t had the luxury of time.
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SO…<o:p></o:p>
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So what do I think of Losman? I think you give him the rest of the year, and see how his learning curve is looking. You need to evaluate at that time, and at that time only, how he will be.
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That being said, if he turns the ball over another 11 times in the second half of the season, he’s toast. You need to protect the ball in this league, plain and simple.
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Ok now it’s time I preemptively respond to posters.
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Losman fanboi: wut r u talking about? We have bad OLINE & receptionists!
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Me: Yes we do have a poor o-line and average receivers. That being said, good QBs adjust to those situations (see Brady, Tom). Losman has not.
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Nall fanboi: We need to see wut NALL has b-for the seeson ends!!
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Me: Dick Jauron and staff, as well as Mike Sherman and staff, have seen what Nall has to offer. Will he be the next Hasselbeck or Delhomme? It’s not outside the realm of possibility, but chances are slim. Add that to the fact that Losman has started 8 games in the current offensive system, and has shown marked improvement (both statistically and on film) since last year throughout, means we need to stick with him longer.
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Thanks for reading, and I hope I make some people think.

[PECKERWOOD]

I stopped reading when he said the Death Star wasnt fully operational. Everybody knows Lord Vader and the Emperor were only pretending it wasnt operational.. :huh:

[Yasgur's Farm]

Do yourself a favor and finish the reading.

[The_Philster]

Nice read :bf1:

[SABURZFAN]

Do yourself a favor and finish the reading.


do us a favor and stop posting drivel from other useless sites. :down:

[The_Philster]

do us a favor and stop posting drivel from other useless sites. :down:
What makes it drivel? The fact that you disagree with it?

[PECKERWOOD]

Do yourself a favor and finish the reading.

Since you insisted, I finished reading it. My conclusion is still the same, this has been said so many times already. Oh, and I agree with him.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Hmmm... Let's see...

This?

Nice read :bf1:

Or this?


do us a favor and stop posting drivel from other useless sites. :down:

Let's see... Hmmm... Who should I respect more?

[The_Philster]

This part stands out for me
Stats lie. Using them, you can make someone look as good or as bad as you want, so I thought I’d throw them out there to remove all statistical arguments right off the bat.
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>
FILM STUDY<O:P></O:P>
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I am an avid film buff. I love to watch tape on players.
<O:P></O:P>As the writer says, stats are easily manipulated to say virtually anything you want them to. I'll admit you can get a feel of what a player is like based on stats..but accuracy in that is limited at best. Game film study is the only way to truly learn much of anything.

[SABURZFAN]

What makes it drivel? The fact that you disagree with it?



the fact that you JP buttlickers would say the same thing if were something negative about losman.

[Mitchy moo]

It's a logical post and a great read. Losman has one underlying problem that he may not be able to overcome, an owner that will not pay for all the staff to help him or the technology for him to review his mistakes midgame. Peyton Manning studies pictures during the game, makes adjustments and comes out to try to change things. JP sits there with a grin on his face and does nothing. Get the technology here, utilize the time and make adjustments.

In case you are wondering how I know, I sat 4 rows behind the 50 yard line and the players just look around with there helmet off doing nothing. They should be talking and game planning and strategizing on why they are sitting instead of being on the field.

[The_Philster]

the fact that you JP buttlickers would say the same thing if were something negative about losman.
name-calling doesn't help your case, SAB...if you can't debate like an adult, maybe you should stay in the Smack Zone and leave the adult debates to the grownups

[SABURZFAN]

name-calling doesn't help your case, SAB...if you can't debate like an adult, maybe you should stay in the Smack Zone and leave the adult debates to the grownups


and very blind ones at that. :rolleyes:

[Yasgur's Farm]

the fact that you JP buttlickers would say the same thing if were something negative about losman.If you could understand good writing, you'd clearly see that it's not an entirely rosey analysis. But I guess that's been your problem all along.

[SABURZFAN]

If you could understand good writing, you'd clearly see that it's not an entirely rosey analysis. But I guess that's been your problem all along.


the title of this thread was enough.

[PECKERWOOD]

If you could understand good writing, you'd clearly see that it's not an entirely rosey analysis. But I guess that's been your problem all along.

It was good writing.. I think that alot of the 'rosey' writings about Losman, seem rosey because its pretty truthful. When you look at these good reads, you notice how there isnt too many bashing Losman. Probably because the mistakes we have seen out of him are pretty typical of young QB's..

If I could see someone anti-Losman write something fair, and against Losman. I'm all eyes and ears really. It's really no fun reading someones post or article, when its biased, untruthful or inconclusive. JMO.

[Philagape]

Over the past week, the most thoughtful, substantial analyses have been in defense of JP.
The critics just say he sucks. They exaggerate his mistakes, call those who disagree childish names while misrepresenting their opinions, and have a shallow, simplistic understanding of the position.

[PECKERWOOD]

Over the past week, the most thoughtful, substantial analyses have been in defense of JP.
The critics just say he sucks. They exaggerate his mistakes, call those who disagree childish names while misrepresenting their opinions, and have a shallow, simplistic understanding of the position.

Couldnt agree more.. There are a couple thoughtful posters that are anti-Losman, though I might add. But I agree, not many! :D

[YardRat]

Good article, given the few points he decided to concentrate on. It's only the tip of the iceberg, though...there certainly are a lot of other factors he could have expounded on to make his observations more complete.

[billsburgh]

Good article, given the few points he decided to concentrate on. It's only the tip of the iceberg, though...there certainly are a lot of other factors he could have expounded on to make his observations more complete.
Such as?

[jamze132]

The bottomline is that JP hasn't played as well as we hoped for thus far. BUT, it doesn't mean we about to make him the latest QB castoff. He should be given the entire season before judgement on his future as a Buffalo Bills is determined.

Anyone can sit here until they are blue in the face saying that Losman sucks and no one is really disagreeing with you.

[YardRat]

Such as?

Footwork, pocket awareness, communication at the line of scrimmage, command of the game, poise, leadership abilities just to name a few.

I also think that his reasoning for JP locking on a receiver is an assumption as opposed to a proven conclusion.

Jim Kelly had an interesting comment on his radio show yesterday that I don't remember hearing before....Losman has small hands, which could be a factor in the turnovers and the inconsistency with the accuracy of his passes.

[justasportsfan]

do us a favor and stop posting drivel from other useless sites. :down:


The guy does have some points that you haven't attempted to counter except with "Jp sux". Who's post is actually drivel? IMO, yours.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The guy does have some points that you haven't attempted to counter except with "Jp sux". Who's post is actually drivel? IMO, yours.BURN!!

[PECKERWOOD]

Footwork, pocket awareness, communication at the line of scrimmage, command of the game, poise, leadership abilities just to name a few.

I also think that his reasoning for JP locking on a receiver is an assumption as opposed to a proven conclusion.

Jim Kelly had an interesting comment on his radio show yesterday that I don't remember hearing before....Losman has small hands, which could be a factor in the turnovers and the inconsistency with the accuracy of his passes.


Footwork, pocket awareness, communication at the line of scrimmage, command of the game, poise, leadership abilities just to name a few.

Alot of those problems you listed are typical of many young QB's. Let me tell you something, especially about the 'leadership' problem JP may or may not be having. Leadership comes when you win games. Atleast our team is playing hard for him. Lee Evans has ALOT of faith in JP, and they have a great connection with each other. Roscoe Parrish has a great connection with JP. Arguably our 2 best WR's have faith in JP, and a pretty strong connection on the field. Our defense wouldnt have came out and played a fire game against GB if there were no faith in our QB/offense, because if they can never put points on the board, whats the point in trying?

Our team hasnt fell apart, after the start of a horrible season. What keeps teams together when the going gets rough? Leadership. Whether its the QB, another player, or the coaches, its solid leadership thats keeping us alive. We have alot to be hopeful for. We duked it out with NE and almost beat them the first time around, we beat a good team in Minnesota. These are 2 potential playoff teams, we traded punches with. Thats a good sign.. We all just need to remember, our team is fairly young, and while we may have an impressive game one week, we may come back next week and **** the bed. I expect things to start clicking by the end of the season, and hopefully the experience of playing a full year together will help our rookies, and the rest of the team jell together...

[TacklingDummy]

I have also watched every Bills game this year. I don't need to look at the stats. I can tell by watching the game that JP sucks. The stats. are just proof to back it up after watching the game.

If anything the stats. make JP look better then he is.

[PECKERWOOD]

I have also watched every Bills game this year. I don't need to look at the stats. I can tell by watching the game that JP sucks. The stats. are just proof to back it up after watching the game.

If anything the stats. make JP look better then he is.

Stats can be very well misleading.. But the original post that draz kindly put together for us, the person didnt use too many stats to back his argument. With that said, if you watch a person play, and then you look at his stats, it can help you get a better picture of the player. But you just cant dig up a random players stats, and say: "Wow, these look good. He must be a good player.."

If you watch a player, and look at stats. It can be very helpful, imo.

[ICE74129]

do us a favor and stop posting drivel from other useless sites. :down: Do everyone a favor a STFU. You have proven you are not a bills fan, so take your JP and bills hate somewhere else.

[PECKERWOOD]

Drill Sgt. ICE! HOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAH!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

What a great analysis in the first post. :up::up:

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm still trying to figure out which system requires a quarterback who telegraphs his throws and holds on to the ball too long.

[raphael120]

i think with a relaible running game, it's going to take alot of pressure off JP. look at how horrible AZ's running game is and how much pressure was on Leinart. on the flip, look at how much the Steelers ran the football (last year when they were doing things right), and how Ben played...he only HAD to throw like 15 tmies a game. we need to do that same thing for JP. for the longest time we havent had a good RB...mcgahee is just a big name, nothing more...i fell into the whole mcgahee bandwagon thing and caught up in the big name. just like bledsoe, moulds, m. williams, milloy...you see where that got us.

[GarnOFreak]

I'm still trying to figure out which system requires a quarterback who telegraphs his throws and holds on to the ball too long.

Dallas? Miami? hmmm......

[The_Philster]

I'm still trying to figure out which system requires a quarterback who telegraphs his throws.Packers? :scratch: Brett stared down his WR the whole way when Fletcher wound up picking it off

Guess Favre is a rotten QB :idunno:

[Ron Burgundy]

Packers? :scratch: Brett stared down his WR the whole way when Fletcher wound up picking it of
What does that have to do with anything? Is there a system in that?

I guarantee you the Pack's coaching staff doesn't want Brett staring down wideouts.


Guess Favre is a rotten QB :idunno:
These days? Yeah, he's not too good.

[The_Philster]

What does that have to do with anything? Is there a system in that?

I guarantee you the Pack's coaching staff doesn't want Brett staring down wideouts.and what makes you think JP is intentionally staring down his WRs? Considering he only does it a few times a game as opposed to Bledsoe who still does it at least twice as much, isn't it kinda ridiculous to get worked up over?

[Ron Burgundy]

and what makes you think JP is intentionally staring down his WRs?
What, do you think he does it accidentally? Like he forgets where he is and what he's doing, so he picks out a wideout to stare at?


Considering he only does it a few times a game as opposed to Bledsoe who still does it at least twice as much, isn't it kinda ridiculous to get worked up over?
Why would staring down your wideout be acceptable out of any quarterback? I mean, I guess it would be okay, if we were winning or he was playing really well or something.

[Philagape]

I'm still trying to figure out which system requires a quarterback who telegraphs his throws and holds on to the ball too long.

This is what I mean by exaggeration. That post makes it sound like he does it all the time and makes it sound like veteran QBs never do those things. It's a simple-minded generalization.

[Ron Burgundy]

This is what I mean by exaggeration. That post makes it sound like he does it all the time and makes it sound like veteran QBs never do those things. It's a simple-minded generalization.

Either he does or he doesn't.

He does. It's not a positive.

[The_Philster]

What, do you think he does it accidentally? Like he forgets where he is and what he's doing, so he picks out a wideout to stare at?
I'm not totally sure why he does it...I don't think he plans it, though...I think it's more a case where he has to break a bad habit than anything else...I question if he did it in college...or if he learned it from Bledsoe :idunno:


Why would staring down your wideout be acceptable out of any quarterback? I mean, I guess it would be okay, if we were winning or he was playing really well or something.It's not acceptable...but the way you're talking, he does it on every pass play...which is about as far from the truth as possible. I think he only does it 2-3 times a game...more than acceptable, but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be


This is what I mean by exaggeration. That post makes it sound like he does it all the time and makes it sound like veteran QBs never do those things. It's a simple-minded generalization.:bf1: I doubt there's a single QB in the league who doesn't do it from time to time.

[PECKERWOOD]

Your not allowed to stare at your WR's guys. Wtf?! How the hell are you going to know what their doing then? lmao..

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm not totally sure why he does it...I don't think he plans it, though...I think it's more a case where he has to break a bad habit than anything else...I question if he did it in college...or if he learned it from Bledsoe :idunno:

Yeah, Bledsoe taught him the secrets of staring down your receivers.

Are you serious?


It's not acceptable...but the way you're talking, he does it on every pass play...which is about as far from the truth as possible. I think he only does it 2-3 times a game...more than acceptable, but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be

I said he does it. I said he does it a lot. I never said he did it every play. It just seems like every play, what with the incompletions and interceptions and whatnot.

It's not good.

:bf1: I doubt there's a single QB in the league who doesn't do it from time to time.

Time to time is one thing. Consistently is another.

I'm still not seeing where a QB who telegraphs his passes and locks eyes with his wideouts has a place in any system.

[Ron Burgundy]

Your not allowed to stare at your WR's guys. Wtf?! How the hell are you going to know what their doing then? lmao..
No, you're not. They're out there running the routes that they've practiced all year. You stare off in order to fool the secondary. Then you find your target and throw the ball.

This is pretty simple stuff, really. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from.

[PECKERWOOD]

No, you're not. They're out there running the routes that they've practiced all year. You stare off in order to fool the secondary. Then you find your target and throw the ball.

This is pretty simple stuff, really. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from.

They scan the field! Its not like they throw the ball blindly.. If a QB sees a route developing, its ok to stare at the WR. Especially if his man is beat.

[The_Philster]

Yeah, Bledsoe taught him the secrets of staring down your receivers.

Are you serious?
word of advice...dishonesty is my biggest pet peeve...kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth. It was a question-type statement. Maybe he had that habit at Tulane...I don't know for sure. I do know Bledsoe does it a lot



I said he does it. I said he does it a lot. I never said he did it every play. It just seems like every play, what with the incompletions and interceptions and whatnot.I think you're overblowing it...I don't see it happening that often


It's not good.agreed...it's a habit he needs to break...whether he does it as often as he does (probably 2-3 times a game) or as often as Bledsoe does....it needs to stop


I'm still not seeing where a QB who telegraphs his passes and locks eyes with his wideouts has a place in any system.Bledsoe had a pretty decent career of doing it

[The_Philster]

They scan the field! Its not like they throw the ball blindly.. If a QB sees a route developing, its ok to stare at the WR. Especially if his man is beat.
only problem with that is the safety. A good safety is watching the QB's eyes and if he sees JP looking at Lee Evans for too long, he'll know where to go help on the play

[Ron Burgundy]

They scan the field! Its not like they throw the ball blindly.. If a QB sees a route developing, its ok to stare at the WR. Especially if his man is beat.

If the wideout's got his man beat, the QB throws the ball. He doesn't sit there and stare at him.

Good quarterbacks don't throw the ball blindly. But they don't stare. They especially don't stare receivers down 5 times a game.

Okay, I think that's the last time I'm repeating myself.

[PECKERWOOD]

only problem with that is the safety. A good safety is watching the QB's eyes and if he sees JP looking at Lee Evans for too long, he'll know where to go help on the play

Yes, but I'm just pointing out the exceptions to the rule. Most QB's have a safety net the rely on, and with JP that safety net is Lee Evans. It's not uncommon to see this in the NFL. I can think of Delhomme -> Smith. Palmer -> C.Johnson. Every QB does this.

[Jersey1031]

Good read, and hasn't change about how I view Losman. He needs more time... It would be one hell of a waste if we just give up on him now, we've got nothing to lose and most importantly no one better suited to do the job. Plain and simple.

[Ron Burgundy]

only problem with that is the safety. A good safety is watching the QB's eyes and if he sees JP looking at Lee Evans for too long, he'll know where to go help on the play

Exactly.

[Philagape]

Either he does or he doesn't.

He does. It's not a positive.

Name all the QBs who don't. Ever.

[The_Philster]

Yes, but I'm just pointing out the exceptions to the rule. Most QB's have a safety net the rely on, and with JP that safety net is Lee Evans. It's not uncommon to see this in the NFL. I can think of Delhomme -> Smith. Palmer -> C.Johnson. Every QB does this.
You can use a safety net without staring down the receiver, though. It's doubtful that any QB avoids it 100% of the time...Flectcher was able to read Brett Favre's eyes and got a pick for a TD for his trouble...but it's a habit that needs to be kept to a minimum. I only see JP doing it 2-3 times a game. If he cut it down to 1 a game, that'd be more acceptable...cutting it down to 1 every 3-4 games...that'd be virtually ideal

[Philagape]

I said he does it. I said he does it a lot. I never said he did it every play. It just seems like every play, what with the incompletions and interceptions and whatnot.

Time to time is one thing. Consistently is another.



The very definition of exaggeration.

He's completed 61.3 percent, which is 14th in the league. His INT percentage is 2.8, which is 15th. Since you're talking about frequency, these stats are directly relevant and expose your lies as total :bs:

On a more general note, JP's critics hold him to standards that about five QBs in the league have met this year.

[Ron Burgundy]

word of advice...dishonesty is my biggest pet peeve...kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth. It was a question-type statement. Maybe he had that habit at Tulane...I don't know for sure. I do know Bledsoe does it a lot

Mine was sort of a question-type statement, too. You can tell from the "?" at the end.


I think you're overblowing it...I don't see it happening that often

I don't think I am, but that's fair enough.


agreed...it's a habit he needs to break...whether he does it as often as he does (probably 2-3 times a game) or as often as Bledsoe does....it needs to stop
Bledsoe had a pretty decent career of doing it

C'mon, Bledsoe hasn't had a decent career at all. Dude's got a lot of yards on a lot of attempts to go along with a lot of picks and a lot of sacks, and all with a ****ty winning percentage.

[DraftBoy]

Couple of things;

-Good overall post
-Losman's staring down problem has been one since college
-He does it more than I would like but not much more, than any other young QB and that includes Eli and Rivers
-I agree with Yardrat on things the author of the post didnt address along with reassignment of blocking schemes to pickup blitzes.
-BF, before I say what Im going to say, Ill tell you this is in a hypothetical, utopian offense, the QB should know where his WR's are going, not have to watch them. He should be able to read the defense and know whether its a zone or man with a bump or not. He should know if its a cover 2, cover 3, or straight up man with no over the top protection, he should hot route properly. He should not have to watch a WR to see what happens, he should look off the defense and make the throw, if the guy isnt open check down, at the same time they are supposed to see defensive breakdowns as they occur (THIS IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT AND TAKES YEARS TO SEE). Losman does most of these things poorly, but he has shown some improvement.

Overall I think Losman has room to improve, but I think its limited.

[Ron Burgundy]

The very definition of exaggeration.

He's completed 61.3 percent, which is 14th in the league. His INT percentage is 2.8, which is 15th. Since you're talking about frequency, these stats are directly relevant and expose your lies as total :bs:

I don't think so. I took the "stares receivers down" (and "holds the ball too long" which no one seems to have an answer for) straight from the initial article.


On a more general note, JP's critics hold him to standards that about five QBs in the league have met this year.

That sounds about right. I want a top 5 quarterback. At least one of 'em is bound to be in the playoffs this year, which would be nice.

[PECKERWOOD]

You can use a safety net without staring down the receiver, though. It's doubtful that any QB avoids it 100% of the time...Flectcher was able to read Brett Favre's eyes and got a pick for a TD for his trouble...but it's a habit that needs to be kept to a minimum. I only see JP doing it 2-3 times a game. If he cut it down to 1 a game, that'd be more acceptable...cutting it down to 1 every 3-4 games...that'd be virtually ideal

I agree with all that, but this is still typical of any veteran QB. If QB's never stared down their WR's they would rarely throw ANY int's. But to expect a QB to not stare at his WR's at all, is just obsurd, imo.

[Jersey1031]

On a more general note, JP's critics hold him to standards that about five QBs in the league have met this year.


...Nailed it on the head!

[The_Philster]

C'mon, Bledsoe hasn't had a decent career at all. Dude's got a lot of yards on a lot of attempts to go along with a lot of picks and a lot of sacks, and all with a ****ty winning percentage.I gotta disagree on that...a great career? no...but I don't see how you can't at least give him "decent"...he's been playing in the league since 1993...if he were on the bench all that time, I could see your argument but he was benched by injury in 2001 and benched a couple weeks ago in Dallas. He has a strong arm and with the proper supporting cast, can pick defenses apart with ease. (and there's no QB alive or dead who could do much without good players surrounding them)
As far as picks and sacks...stats that may not entirely be his fault..WR running the wrong route, tipped balls, sub-par O-line play, etc
Winning %...it's a team game

[Philagape]

I don't think so. I took the "stares receivers down" (and "holds the ball too long" which no one seems to have an answer for) straight from the initial article.

Where did "seems like every play" and "consistently" come from?


That sounds about right. I want a top 5 quarterback. At least one of 'em is bound to be in the playoffs this year, which would be nice.

So if your complaint is that we don't have a top-five QB, then I concede. My apologies.

[Typ0]

I agree with all that, but this is still typical of any veteran QB. If QB's never stared down their WR's they would rarely throw ANY int's. But to expect a QB to not stare at his WR's at all, is just obsurd, imo.

There is a difference between staring and looking. Most QBs look at the field. JP stares at a receiver. Most QBs hanging out in a bar would look around and get some pussy...JP will stare and scare the babes thinking he's a rapist. Do you see the difference?

[Ron Burgundy]

Where did "seems like every play" and "consistently" come from?

JP Losman, actually.


So if your complaint is that we don't have a top-five QB, then I concede. My apologies.

Not only am I complaining about not having a top-five QB, I'm complaining that we do have one who doesn't look like he could be in the top 20.

[PECKERWOOD]

There is a difference between staring and looking. Most QBs look at the field. JP stares at a receiver. Most QBs hanging out in a bar would look around and get some pussy...JP will stare and scare the babes thinking he's a rapist. Do you see the difference?

Haha, nice analogy. I see your point.. But everybody stares at one time or another! It comes with the territory, he obviously didnt do too much staring against GB though. Either that or GB's secondary couldnt even read a childrens book.

[SABURZFAN]

Do everyone a favor a STFU. You have proven you are not a bills fan, so take your JP and bills hate somewhere else.



just like clockwork.criticize an area of the football team and your response is,"you're not a Bills fan."i got a newsflash for you.i was around during the OJ and The Electric Company Era.i was around when buffalo was Talking Proud.i was around during the back to back 2-14 season.i was around during the 4 Super Bowls.i was around during the butler era.i was around when the flutie-johnson debate was bigger than the Presidents race.i was around during the Donna Ho era.and i'm still around today.why don't you just :stfu: ,secure your head deep in your ass,and take two deep breaths?

[SABURZFAN]

There is a difference between staring and looking. Most QBs look at the field. JP stares at a receiver. Most QBs hanging out in a bar would look around and get some pussy...JP will stare and scare the babes thinking he's a rapist. Do you see the difference?


how the hell can Philster groan this post when it's the obvious truth?you better watch out Typ0,ICE will claim that you're not a Bills fan. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

The guy does have some points that you haven't attempted to counter except with "Jp sux".



because i call it the way i see it.

[The_Philster]

how the hell can Philster groan this post when it's the obvious truth?you better watch out Typ0,ICE will claim that you're not a Bills fan. :rolleyes:
I can groan the post because it's yet another case of serious overexaggeration. Bledose stared down WRs a hell of a lot more than JP does and didn't get called on it nearly this much


because i call it the way i see it.and you can't debate the points because you know they're right

[SABURZFAN]

Drill Sgt. ICE! HOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAH!!


more like getting drilled in the dupa ICE. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

Packers? :scratch: Brett stared down his WR the whole way when Fletcher wound up picking it off

Guess Favre is a rotten QB :idunno:



but losman will never accomplish half of what favre has accomplished. :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

but losman will never accomplish half of what favre has accomplished. :rolleyes:
really?
How are those lotto winnings working out for you? :scratch:

[SABURZFAN]

I can groan the post because it's yet another case of serious overexaggeration. Bledose stared down WRs a hell of a lot more than JP does and didn't get called on it nearly this much



bledsoe got ran out of buffalo on a rail.i criticize bledsoe as well.

[SABURZFAN]

really?
How are those lotto winnings working out for you? :scratch:


you better check again again on favre. :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

bledsoe got ran out of buffalo on a rail.i criticize bledsoe as well.
Bledsoe had his problems, granted....but JP's getting attacked vehemently for staring down his WRs a few times a game...Bledsoe stared his WRs down a lot more than that yet didn't get called on it this much

[The_Philster]

you better check again again on favre. :rolleyes:
not answering the question, I see
You claim to see the future...you saying you're not using those supernatural abilities on the lotto at all? :shakeno:

[SABURZFAN]

I'm not totally sure why he does it...I don't think he plans it, though...I think it's more a case where he has to break a bad habit than anything else...I question if he did it in college...or if he learned it from Bledsoe :idunno:




you're blaming bledsoe??????



:roflmao:



a new excuse.keep those cards and letters coming Philster.



what a bunch of crap.

[Philagape]

JP Losman, actually.

Prove it. Back up your contention that he does it "consistently." Or else the source is your arse.

[The_Philster]

you're blaming bledsoe??????



:roflmao:



a new excuse.keep those cards and letters coming Philster.



what a bunch of crap.
read my post, SAB :rolleyes: Illiteracy is a piss poor excuse

IT WAS A QUESTION AS I ALREADY REPEATED
FOLLOW ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SABURZFAN]

not answering the question, I see
You claim to see the future...you saying you're not using those supernatural abilities on the lotto at all? :shakeno:


i don't have to answer it.favre's accomplishments speak for itself.like i said,losman hasn't accomplished or never will accomplish half of what favre has done in the NFL.


as for the Lotto,i wish i knew the numbers.i'd be off somewhere,without a computer,instead of on the computer reading your posts trying to change the subject.

[SABURZFAN]

read my post, SAB :rolleyes: Illiteracy is a piss poor excuse

IT WAS A QUESTION AS I ALREADY REPEATED
FOLLOW ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


calm down Philly Dog.there's no need to get upset and yell.

[SABURZFAN]

Your not allowed to stare at your WR's guys. Wtf?! How the hell are you going to know what their doing then? lmao..


read the defense better and know the patterns of your WR's.


next.....

[The_Philster]

i don't have to answer it.favre's accomplishments speak for itself.like i said,losman hasn't accomplished or never will accomplish half of what favre has done in the NFL.
That's a bold quote...I don't claim to know the future...you do. So who's our QB gonna be in the next couple of years? What year should I book tickets for the Super Bowl since you know the future so well?


as for the Lotto,i wish i knew the numbers.i'd be off somewhere,without a computer,instead of on the computer reading your posts trying to change the subject.who's trying to change the subject? You're making bold predictions based purely on a pathological hatred

[The_Philster]

calm down Philly Dog.there's no need to get upset and yell.
then follow along and actually read what is said rather than make asinine posts

[SABURZFAN]

you can't debate the points because you know they're right


of course i am. :up:

[SABURZFAN]

then follow along and actually read what is said rather than make asinine posts



asinine posts are the ones you made that included bledsoe.bledsoe's been gone for a while. :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

asinine posts are the ones you made that included bledsoe.bledsoe's been gone for a while. :rolleyes:
I asked a question...if you can't tell that, the 1st grade readers version of the football forums can be located for you

[SABURZFAN]

What year should I book tickets for the Super Bowl since you know the future so well?




as long as losman continues to be our QB,don't bother.

[SABURZFAN]

You're making bold predictions based purely on a pathological hatred


i never claimed to be 100%.but losman's play makes me confident that i'm right. :up:

[The_Philster]

as long as losman continues to be our QB,don't bother.
well, you already know how bad JP will always be....so you must already know who's gonna replace him and when we'll next be in the Super Bowl

If you don't know these things, then you're obviously talking out of blind pathological hatred and not any football or common sense when it comes to your bold prediction

[SABURZFAN]

I asked a question...if you can't tell that, the 1st grade readers version of the football forums can be located for you



go to the Smack Zone for this rubbish.you should practice what you preach. :up:

[The_Philster]

go to the Smack Zone for this rubbish.you should practice what you preach. :up:
I'm not the one having problems with reading posts

[SABURZFAN]

so you must already know who's gonna replace him and when we'll next be in the Super Bowl




i wish i knew but he can't be any worse than this sluggo we have right now.

[SABURZFAN]

I'm not the one having problems with reading posts


me neither.

[The_Philster]

me neither.
Yeah..that's why you can't understand a question when you see it :rolleyes: :liar:

[SABURZFAN]

you're blaming bledsoe??????



:roflmao:



a new excuse.keep those cards and letters coming Philster.



what a bunch of crap.


thanks for the neg on this post,Philly Dog. :up:

[SABURZFAN]

Yeah..that's why you can't understand a question when you see it :rolleyes: :liar:


so what does bledsoe have to do with it? :huh:

[The_Philster]

so what does bledsoe have to do with it? :huh:
I wondered where Losman picked up the habit...Draftboy explained later in the thread that it was in college.
If he didn't have that habit in college, he would've had to learn it in the pros...and Bledsoe is notorious for locking onto WRs

[SABURZFAN]

I wondered where Losman picked up the habit...Draftboy explained later in the thread that it was in college.
If he didn't have that habit in college, he would've had to learn it in the pros...and Bledsoe is notorious for locking onto WRs


if losman had been an understudy to bledsoe for 3-5 years,i could possibly agree with you.i see this as ANOTHER Licker excuse. :down:

[The_Philster]

if losman had been an understudy to bledsoe for 3-5 years,i could possibly agree with you.i see this as ANOTHER Licker excuse. :down:
It was a question...grow up and drop the name-calling already...this ain't the Smack Zone..we try to have mature adult discussions here

anyway, considering that Draftboy later said it was a habit he had in college, Bledsoe isn't getting any blame for this

[SABURZFAN]

It was a question...grow up and drop the name-calling already...this ain't the Smack Zone..we try to have mature adult discussions here

anyway, considering that Draftboy later said it was a habit he had in college, Bledsoe isn't getting any blame for this



so what is your excuse now? :idunno:

[The_Philster]

so what is your excuse now? :idunno:
what excuse?

[SABURZFAN]

what excuse?


you ran out??? :shocked:


i guess it's time to get back to your Jills site.at least you have some kind of knowledge there. :up:

[The_Philster]

you ran out??? :shocked:


i guess it's time to get back to your Jills site.at least you have some kind of knowledge there. :up:
I mean..you're not making sense...what are you talking about..excuses?

And I'm not the one having problems understanding football...someone makes some points about Losman that are filled with reason and logic and your response is...Losman sux...you couldn't debate the points made in the initial post...so you resorted to simple blanket statements...you got called on it, and you resorted to name-calling

When you can debate points like an adult and use reason and logic, give me a call...cause lately, your posts are purely smack talk...and I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm in this forum cause I wanna talk football...not deal with children who don't know anything.

[YardRat]

Alot of those problems you listed are typical of many young QB's. Let me tell you something, especially about the 'leadership' problem JP may or may not be having. Leadership comes when you win games. Atleast our team is playing hard for him. Lee Evans has ALOT of faith in JP, and they have a great connection with each other. Roscoe Parrish has a great connection with JP. Arguably our 2 best WR's have faith in JP, and a pretty strong connection on the field. Our defense wouldnt have came out and played a fire game against GB if there were no faith in our QB/offense, because if they can never put points on the board, whats the point in trying?

Our team hasnt fell apart, after the start of a horrible season. What keeps teams together when the going gets rough? Leadership. Whether its the QB, another player, or the coaches, its solid leadership thats keeping us alive. We have alot to be hopeful for. We duked it out with NE and almost beat them the first time around, we beat a good team in Minnesota. These are 2 potential playoff teams, we traded punches with. Thats a good sign.. We all just need to remember, our team is fairly young, and while we may have an impressive game one week, we may come back next week and **** the bed. I expect things to start clicking by the end of the season, and hopefully the experience of playing a full year together will help our rookies, and the rest of the team jell together...

I didn't categorize them as problems...I stated them as other facets of the game that the original author could have written about. As a response to the question directed at me.

[YardRat]

and what makes you think JP is intentionally staring down his WRs?

The author's conclusion implies intent...

Losman wants to make a play. He wants to throw into that window barely bigger than the ball. He wants to make people go “holy crap what a throw”. Problem is, he concentrates on that throw for too long before he decides he wants to make it. He keeps waiting for the perfect time for the perfect throw, but sometimes you have to make a “good” throw at a “good” time, and he doesn’t want to do it. This can really get out of hand for JP. In the Jets game, he stared down a wide open flat route by Willis, and threw the ball too high. He wanted to make a play, but he just made me sick.
<O:P></O:P>

[The_Philster]

The author's conclusion implies intent...

Losman wants to make a play. He wants to throw into that window barely bigger than the ball. He wants to make people go “holy crap what a throw”. Problem is, he concentrates on that throw for too long before he decides he wants to make it. He keeps waiting for the perfect time for the perfect throw, but sometimes you have to make a “good” throw at a “good” time, and he doesn’t want to do it. This can really get out of hand for JP. In the Jets game, he stared down a wide open flat route by Willis, and threw the ball too high. He wanted to make a play, but he just made me sick.
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>
unless the author is a mindreader, I really think it's just conjecture on his part. It's most likely a bad habit he hasn't totally gotten over. If it were intentional, why wouldn't he do it all the time?

[YardRat]

Haha, nice analogy. I see your point.. But everybody stares at one time or another! It comes with the territory, he obviously didnt do too much staring against GB though. Either that or GB's secondary couldnt even read a childrens book.

They were last in the league in pass defense weren't they? Or 31st, at least?

[YardRat]

unless the author is a mindreader, I really think it's just conjecture on his part.

My point, exactly. It's conjecture not reality or truth.

[The_Philster]

They were last in the league in pass defense weren't they? Or 31st, at least?
31st

[SABURZFAN]

you resorted to name-calling

I'm in this forum cause I wanna talk football...not deal with children who don't know anything.



yeah....ok. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

31st


31st against the pass and they throw a stat on the tube,with 8 minutes left in the game,that Just Pathetic(JP) only has 21 total passing yards.that is totally piss poor. :rolleyes:

[YardRat]

31st against the pass and they throw a stat on the tube,with 8 minutes left in the game,that Just Pathetic(JP) only has 21 total passing yards.that is totally piss poor. :rolleyes:

Bad play-calling, a ****ty offensive line, and having Bledsoe as your tutor will get you that every time.

/sarcasm off.

[The_Philster]

31st against the pass and they throw a stat on the tube,with 8 minutes left in the game,that Just Pathetic(JP) only has 21 total passing yards.that is totally piss poor. :rolleyes:
Yep...JP's all by himself out there on passing plays :rolleyes: