We Will See...

[jamze132]

This week you can watch the game between the Colts and the Bills and see the difference between a good offense and a bad offense first hand. Yeha, I know what you are thinking.... blah blah blah.

I challenge you to watch all areas of both offenses and compare the two before, during, and after the game.

- Look at the recievers on Indy, do they get open? Are they running swift routes that make sense?

- Look at the Bills's receivers and ask yourself the same question. Ask yourself do all the recievers on the field have ample time to get open?

- Watch for differences in the O-lines. Does one line do better than the other in certain areas? Is the Colt's O-line really light years ahead of Buffalo's?

- Do either lines' provide enough time for the QB to effectively get the ball away without being under duress?

- How much time does each line give their QB?

- Watch for differences in the QB play; their footwork, audible calling, judgement, etc.

- Watch the offense as a whole and see if they work together to move the chains. Do they rely on one certain player when really needed?




This game should give Bills fans a good prospective of where our offense is really at. We will see if what the real differences between the best offense and one of the worst offenses is, first hand. And yes I know that we can just sit here for 1 minute and tell how the game will unfold, but humor me.

[ddaryl]

Not sure if I even need to witness these differences. I think its obvious we need major upgrades in performance or personel at QB, OL, WR, TE, and RB. Then there is also an upgrade needed in preperation, playcalling and gametime coaching

If anything our O needs to watch this game and see the differences.

[TacklingDummy]

Put Manning on the Bills and the Bills are at least 6-2, put JP on the Colts and the Colts would be 3-5/4-4.

[SABURZFAN]

the amazing thing we will see is JP stands for Just Pathetic when manning shows what a real NFL QB does in a game.

[SABURZFAN]

Put Manning on the Bills and the Bills are at least 6-2, put JP on the Colts and the Colts would be 3-5/4-4.


i agree. :up:

[Night Train]

Anthony Thomas should be the majority of our Offense anyhow.

We'd be idiots not to run the ball all day against the Colts, who suck against the run.

[Night Train]

the amazing thing we will see is JP stands for Just Pathetic when manning shows what a real NFL QB does in a game.

Peyton Manning = The Dan Fouts of the 21st Century.

1 AFC Championship game ( a loss ) to show for all those stats !

[DMBcrew36]

I've already seen the Colts offensive line. Peyton has tons of time on most passing downs.

[Dr. Lecter]

Put Manning on the Bills and the Bills are at least 6-2, put JP on the Colts and the Colts would be 3-5/4-4.

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

This Bills team would not be 6-2 with the good man above at QB.

The people who act like JP has been the only problem this year need to quit watching the games like the are Stevie Wonder.

[patmoran2006]

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

This Bills team would not be 6-2 with the good man above at QB.

The people who act like JP has been the only problem this year need to quit watching the games like the are Stevie Wonder.
Your telling me the Bills dont beat NE (wk 1), NYJ and Detroit with Manning at QB instead of Losman. you're nuts

[patmoran2006]

This is a playoff-team RIGHT NOW today, with Manning at QB.. In fact, they're a playoff team RIGHT NOW with about 5-7 Qb's in this league.

I dont care how bad our OL has been.. THey were good enough vs NE and the Jets and any real QB would beat Detroit.. We're 6-2, 5-3 at WORST right now with a star QB.

[Dr. Lecter]

Perhaps. But Manning is the best or second best QB in the NFL. If you are going to hold JP to that standard at this point of his career, then you will never be happy. Is that the only way you are accepting a QB? If so, the Bills will change every year.

BTW, the Lions game is questionable. If you recall (And I think most people do not) Roy Williams had 161 yards and the Bills defense was pathetic.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is a playoff-team RIGHT NOW today, with Manning at QB.. In fact, they're a playoff team RIGHT NOW with about 5-7 Qb's in this league.

I dont care how bad our OL has been.. THey were good enough vs NE and the Jets and any real QB would beat Detroit.. We're 6-2, 5-3 at WORST right now with a star QB.

OK.

If you say so.

This is NOT a playoff team. They were 5-11 last year. 5 rookies have started on defense (or received significant time). Expecting JP to be a 'Star QB' is stupid, asinine, moronic and uneducated. All people should have known this team w0uld struggle this year, with a line that still needs work a questionable #2 WR, a young QB that was jerked around last year, a new defensive scheme, several new defensive players and general new approach to the game throughout the organization. But contending they are a playoff team allows people to relentlessly ***** and bash JP.

[Typ0]

OK.

If you say so.

This is NOT a playoff team. They were 5-11 last year. 5 rookies have started on defense (or received significant time). Expecting JP to be a 'Star QB' is stupid, asinine, moronic and uneducated. All people should have known this team w0uld struggle this year, with a line that still needs work a questionable #2 WR, a young QB that was jerked around last year, a new defensive scheme, several new defensive players and general new approach to the game throughout the organization. But contending they are a playoff team allows people to relentlessly ***** and bash JP.

too many excuses. JP is a third year journeyman QB who still plays like a rookie. Go ahead and respond with some more excuses now.

[TacklingDummy]

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

This Bills team would not be 6-2 with the good man above at QB.

The people who act like JP has been the only problem this year need to quit watching the games like the are Stevie Wonder.

Thats your opinion.

The people who act like a better QB wouldnt of led us to wins against the Jets, Lions, and NE this year need to quit watching like they are Ray Charles.

[HHURRICANE]

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

This Bills team would not be 6-2 with the good man above at QB.

The people who act like JP has been the only problem this year need to quit watching the games like the are Stevie Wonder.

Well said!!

[Ickybaluky]

There is little doubt in my mind that Manning is a HOF'er in waiting.

However, aren't their situations just a little bit different? Manning has been in the same system for his entire career and has been working with the same WR for the majority of that time. He has great WR on the outside (Harrison is among the best WR ever) and has great chemistry with both of them. Manning timing with those guys is so great he can throw the ball out there and he knows they will be there to make the play. You can't discount that.

By contrast, Losman is working for his 2nd regime and 2nd offensive system. He isn't surrounded by the same kind of talent and hasn't had time to build the kind of chemistry with his WR that Manning does. It is only fair to acknowledge those facts.

Granted, I am not that impressed with Losman. I don't think he understands what he is doing well enough and it hurts him on plays. He needs to learn to recognize situations and act appropriately, and he doesn't do that well within the gameplan. His best plays are when he freelances, and it is hard to win that way in the NFL. His situational awareness is pathetic, and is the ultimate reason I don't think much of him as a QB.

However, I recognize he is still a young guy and may get better. I could be wrong, he may start to look more in control in the future.

[Dr. Lecter]

So you think the team around JP is just fine? You think defenses playing a ton of rookies usually make the playoffs?

It is not as much of a defense of JP as it showing the assumption that this is a playoff team with other QB's is insane. Would they be better with Peyton? Well, duh. Of course. Has JP been perfect this year? No. Has he been bad at times. Even very bad. Do Bills fans love to rip apart the starting QB? Yep.

[Typ0]

we don't even need Peyton Manning. If we had Eli Manning I bet our offensive productivity would double. I bet it would double if we had Trent Dilfer too. It might even double if Moorman was the QB.

[HHURRICANE]

too many excuses. JP is a third year journeyman QB who still plays like a rookie. Go ahead and respond with some more excuses now.

Well for one the OL he has playing behind couldn't have been very good considering the starting LG got benched, they had to move the LT to LG and are now starting a rookie at RT. I would say that Peyton Manning wouldn't want to be playing behind that line.

[Dr. Lecter]

Thats your opinion.

The people who act like a better QB wouldnt of led us to wins against the Jets, Lions, and NE this year need to quit watching like they are Ray Charles.

He went the first 3 games without a TO. He struggles against the Jets, but those struggles included blindsided hits from UNBLOCKED players. Many QB's would have fumbled those balls. Detroit included several horrible bad defensive plays.

What is incredible, is that while I can admit he has struggled, you and Pat do not hold any other players accountable for the Bills problems.

[Typ0]

There is little doubt in my mind that Manning is a HOF'er in waiting.

However, aren't their situations just a little bit different? Manning has been in the same system for his entire career and has been working with the same WR for the majority of that time. He has great WR on the outside (Harrison is among the best WR ever) and has great chemistry with both of them. Manning timing with those guys is so great he can throw the ball out there and he knows they will be there to make the play. You can't discount that.

By contrast, Losman is working for his 2nd regime and 2nd offensive system. He isn't surrounded by the same kind of talent and hasn't had time to build the kind of chemistry with his WR that Manning does. It is only fair to acknowledge those facts.

Granted, I am not that impressed with Losman. I don't think he understands what he is doing well enough and it hurts him on plays. He needs to learn to recognize situations and act appropriately, and he doesn't do that well within the gameplan. His best plays are when he freelances, and it is hard to win that way in the NFL. His situational awareness is pathetic, and is the ultimate reason I don't think much of him as a QB.

However, I recognize he is still a young guy and may get better. I could be wrong, he may start to look more in control in the future.


you hit the nail on the head...JP doesn't know what he is doing. When he gets a clue what he is doing then the people who say the OLine is bad or he needs more weapons will have something to stand on. Until then they are just blowing smoke because no matter what pieces of the puzzle you are going to put in he's still not going to know what he's doing. And if he's one of those guys who has to have everything in place before he tries then I dont' want him then either. Right now, JP Lossman does not know what he's doing out there...he stinks.

[Typ0]

He went the first 3 games without a TO. He struggles against the Jets, but those struggles included blindsided hits from UNBLOCKED players. Many QB's would have fumbled those balls. Detroit included several horrible bad defensive plays.

What is incredible, is that while I can admit he has struggled, you and Pat do not hold any other players accountable for the Bills problems.


they are all accountable...but other guys playing bad does not make JP Lossman any better it only fuels the excuse mongers. Anyone watching the game should be able to see that JP Lossman is clueless about being a QB in the NFL. Put him in a sandlot he's probably the best QB on earth but we aren't playing sandlot football in the Ralph on sundays or any other NFL stadium.

[patmoran2006]

OK.

If you say so.

This is NOT a playoff team. They were 5-11 last year. 5 rookies have started on defense (or received significant time). Expecting JP to be a 'Star QB' is stupid, asinine, moronic and uneducated. All people should have known this team w0uld struggle this year, with a line that still needs work a questionable #2 WR, a young QB that was jerked around last year, a new defensive scheme, several new defensive players and general new approach to the game throughout the organization. But contending they are a playoff team allows people to relentlessly ***** and bash JP.
I dont' care how bad they were last year or how many rookies are in the lineup..

At the end of the day, a BETTER QB beats NE, the jets and Detroit.. that makes us 6-2...........Whether your a homer, a realist, a negative nancy or a bandwaggon hopper, its the TRUTH..

* Losman didnt play particularly bad vs NE in week one, but he didnt make ANY big plays and his safety sack was the biggest play of the game.

* Losman FiNALLY had "numbers" vs Jets but his INT and fumble return for a TD sealed that deal.

* We dont even want to talk about the detroit game, do we?

So for all the convienant excuses, which may or not be true.. It doesnt matter at WORST this team would have a winning record, and i'm NOT just talking if Manning was the QB.

[TacklingDummy]

What is incredible, is that while I can admit he has struggled, you and Pat do not hold any other players accountable for the Bills problems.

I've never said JP was the only reason we lost. He wasn't.

If Parrish was starter instead of Price would the Bills still be 3-5? Probably.

If Manning (Or many other NFL QBs) were the Bills starter would the Bills have a better record then 3-5? Probably.

QB is the most important position on the field, period

[patmoran2006]

Not that I disagree with you about the other stuff.. This team needs to get a lot better in some areas..

But we could still easily be 6-2.

[Typ0]

Not that I disagree with you about the other stuff.. This team needs to get a lot better in some areas..

But we could still easily be 6-2.

we could revamp the entire team over the course of the next three offseaons and hope we get better....or we could just dump JP Losman into the toilet and get a real QB. Is that what you are saying? It makes sense to me!

[Dr. Lecter]

I dont' care how bad they were last year or how many rookies are in the lineup..

At the end of the day, a BETTER QB beats NE, the jets and Detroit.. that makes us 6-2...........Whether your a homer, a realist, a negative nancy or a bandwaggon hopper, its the TRUTH..

* Losman didnt play particularly bad vs NE in week one, but he didnt make ANY big plays and his safety sack was the biggest play of the game.

* Losman FiNALLY had "numbers" vs Jets but his INT and fumble return for a TD sealed that deal.

* We dont even want to talk about the detroit game, do we?

So for all the convienant excuses, which may or not be true.. It doesnt matter at WORST this team would have a winning record, and i'm NOT just talking if Manning was the QB.

His safety sack? That is the problem. He is not the only reason for the sack. Yet you twist and turn the words until it is all his fault. The fact is if making big plays is the problem, rip on McGahee as well.

As for the Jets game, you complain about him not making plays against NE, but paying w/o mistakes , and then against the Jets he makes plays and you still *****. At least one of the fumbles was much more Willis' fault than JP's. And anybody without a JP hating agenda can see that. Do you also think GB should flush Favre since his TO's was a major pointin losing the game last weekend?

I had hoped JP would be better as well. But this non-stop bashing and blind hatred is insane. The claims that the QB lost three games is beyond stupid. You use the O-line as a crutch for Willis, but the problems in the passing game is all the fault of JP. Don't throw out the 'blind' accustaions until you are more consistent yourself.

[TacklingDummy]

I don't use the O-line as a crutch for Willis, I use the QB play as a crutch for Willis.
A better QB would make McGahee more productive.

JP drags down the whole offense. I don't know why some people cant see that.

[TigerJ]

About Peyton Manning and JP: Of course Manning is a much better QB than JP and his presence on the Bills would likely translate to more wins. I not going to worry about trying to quantify that. On to the point of the thread: Buffalo has execution problems across the board on offense. The sources of those problems are many. The Bills have a new offense, new coaching staff, more turnover in personnel than an established team like the Colts, they are relatively young but for Shelton and Villarrial. Whether or not quality of coaching is a factor in that, and how much of a factor if any at all is hard to quantify yet. Some of those other factors have to be addressed before quality of coaching becomes more evident. Level of talent is probably also an issue. I don't think too many would argue, Payton Manning is the most talented QB in the league. There are a couple other areas where the Bills may need a talent upgrade, but it's tougher to evaluate. Villarrial is getting close to the wall as far as his career goes. He appears to be a liability on the line against some teams. Shelton is inconsistent. We don't really know if the Bills' tight ends are any good. We don't know if Pennington will develop.

If the coaching is solid and the management of the Bills is competent, then we can expect steady improvement year to year. If not, we'll continue to struggle.

[Typ0]

His safety sack? That is the problem. He is not the only reason for the sack. Yet you twist and turn the words until it is all his fault. The fact is if making big plays is the problem, rip on McGahee as well.

As for the Jets game, you complain about him not making plays against NE, but paying w/o mistakes , and then against the Jets he makes plays and you still *****. At least one of the fumbles was much more Willis' fault than JP's. And anybody without a JP hating agenda can see that. Do you also think GB should flush Favre since his TO's was a major pointin losing the game last weekend?

I had hoped JP would be better as well. But this non-stop bashing and blind hatred is insane. The claims that the QB lost three games is beyond stupid. You use the O-line as a crutch for Willis, but the problems in the passing game is all the fault of JP. Don't throw out the 'blind' accustaions until you are more consistent yourself.


JP Is the only reason for the safety. He had time and room to get out of the endzone and he didn't. He is the sole reason we took the safety and the safety is the reason we lost that game. Therefore, JP is the reason we lost that game.

[Inetpub]

I don't use the O-line as a crutch for Willis, I use the QB play as a crutch for Willis.
A better QB would make McGahee more productive.

JP drags down the whole offense. I don't know why some people cant see that.

Its NEVER JP's Fault. If we have a better Oline, Mcgahee would be the BEST! McGahee would look like Ladanian Thomlinson if our Oline was better. I blame our Oline on McGahee not looking like LT. McGahee will never get better unless our Oline gets a clue. I dont know why you would post such crap. JP is NEVER at fault!

[HHURRICANE]

I don't use the O-line as a crutch for Willis, I use the QB play as a crutch for Willis.
A better QB would make McGahee more productive.

JP drags down the whole offense. I don't know why some people cant see that.

That's a new one. Better QB makes the RB better? I have been watching football a long time and I have never heard an analyst use that one. Last I looked, Willis and JP play behind the same line. Let's not forget the awesome blocking JP has been getting from Willis this year on pass plays!!

[Mr. Pink]

Hell with Kelly Holcomb right now, we'd be 5-3.

Holcomb at QB doesn't lose the NE game because he doesn't take that safety. Against the Jets, the fumble never occurs because Holcomb is a dink and dunk QB. The Lions game I place on the entire team laying an egg.

Does that mean I advocate KH as starter? No. But with more consistent/better QB play we're a legitimate playoff contender RIGHT NOW.
Not in 2 years from now or whenever JP gets it, if at all, or when we get another QB in here that develops into the system but TODAY.

Everyone who makes excuses for Losman says we need better WRs, better O-line, better running game. Well how are we supposed to field a team in the salary cap age where you have "stars" everywhere? You can't. NO TEAM in the NFL has every position manned by a star player. Any QB would succeed with everyone being great around him too bad it doesn't work that way.

[ICE74129]

JP Is the only reason for the safety. He had time and room to get out of the endzone and he didn't. He is the sole reason we took the safety and the safety is the reason we lost that game. Therefore, JP is the reason we lost that game.

For all his faults your post is pure bull ****. It was a bad call, he had no room and no time.

It amazes me how some will ignore facts and video evidence so they can support their hate of our starting QB.

[Dr. Lecter]

We lose the game against GB with Holcomb. We lose to the Vikings too.

[Mr. Pink]

That's a new one. Better QB makes the RB better? I have been watching football a long time and I have never heard an analyst use that one. Last I looked, Willis and JP play behind the same line. Let's not forget the awesome blocking JP has been getting from Willis this year on pass plays!!


Yes a better QB makes the running game better. If you have any semblance of a passing attack teams have to play you more honestly. If JP struck fear in the opposing defense, they couldn't load up on the run to stop us because everyone knows that JP can't beat anyone with his arm.

Simple equation...better passing game = less guys in the box to stop the run = more running lanes = more rushing yards = better running game!

And what football have you been listening to that you've never heard a better passing game opens the running game?

[ICE74129]

Hell with Kelly Holcomb right now, we'd be 5-3.

Holcomb at QB doesn't lose the NE game because he doesn't take that safety. Against the Jets, the fumble never occurs because Holcomb is a dink and dunk QB. The Lions game I place on the entire team laying an egg.

Does that mean I advocate KH as starter? No. But with more consistent/better QB play we're a legitimate playoff contender RIGHT NOW.
Not in 2 years from now or whenever JP gets it, if at all, or when we get another QB in here that develops into the system but TODAY.

Everyone who makes excuses for Losman says we need better WRs, better O-line, better running game. Well how are we supposed to field a team in the salary cap age where you have "stars" everywhere? You can't. NO TEAM in the NFL has every position manned by a star player. Any QB would succeed with everyone being great around him too bad it doesn't work that way.

Again pure bull ****. this team would't be 5-3 with manning at the helm. its aPOS TEAM right now and fans better wake up to that FACT.

What gets me is EVERYONE knew this was about a 6 win team going into this season, JP or no JP and thats the pace we are on. But those with no brain at all must have a scape goat instead of accepting fact.

the TEAM is having issues and that includes JP.

[ICE74129]

We lose the game against GB with Holcomb. We lose to the Vikings too. No ****. JP's legs have saved us when holcomb would have got killed.

[Mr. Pink]

No ****. JP's legs have saved us when holcomb would have got killed.


We coulda started Bruce Mathison vs the Packers and still won. They handed us the game, no one on offense won it. Remember him? He was even able to win some games for the Bills!

[Inetpub]

That's a new one. Better QB makes the RB better? I have been watching football a long time and I have never heard an analyst use that one. Last I looked, Willis and JP play behind the same line. Let's not forget the awesome blocking JP has been getting from Willis this year on pass plays!!

Obviously your listening to the wrong analysts. JP is the leader of the Offense. If we arent ahead in score, we are looking at more JP throwing and less Mcgahee running. We cant play catchup and run the ball! Running the Ball is wasting time. The only real times we have the full luxury of running the ball on 3 downs is if the game was still early, or if we are in the lead. Last time I checked, by the third quarter and us being down 2 scores doesnt allow us that option.

So McGahees play is Hugely affected by Losman's. If Losman cant get us that lead, Mcgahee cant pad the time and run it down for us. Example, Vs Chicago , Willis had 14 runs. Vs detroit he had 17. Vs NE 20. Vs GB, he had 4 and Atrain had 20.
Thats 24 times we ran with a win. ITs cause we had the lead and needed that extra time run down. 4 extra runs is 2 minutes wasted. When you are in the lead, you tend to use the run more to efficiently waste time and chances of turnovers are less. ITs not saying the RB cant fumble, its just saying the turnover chances are less with a run. Passing you have the chance of the INT and a fumble/missed catch. Not something you want to do when your in the lead. But then again, you've been watching football for a long time but still cant grasp that concept. wow.

[Inetpub]

We lose the game against GB with Holcomb. We lose to the Vikings too.
You cant prove that. ESPECIALLY when the Defense won both games for us!

[Dr. Lecter]

You cant prove that. ESPECIALLY when the Defense won both games for us!

It is as provable as the assertions that the Bills win 2 more games with Holcomb. Neither can be proven.

[TacklingDummy]

You cant prove that. ESPECIALLY when the Defense won both games for us!
\
The defense also won the Miami game.

[Dr. Lecter]

Let get this straight:

When the Bills lose, it is JP's fault.

When the Bills win, JP has no effect on the games outcome.

Do I have that correct?

[Mr. Pink]

Let get this straight:

When the Bills lose, it is JP's fault.

When the Bills win, JP has no effect on the games outcome.

Do I have that correct?


What game has JP legitimately helped this team win?

Lets go over this shall we...

Minnesota- One dropped pass by Marcus Robinson late was the difference in winning and losing, even after Brad Johnson looked like Edward Scissorhands.

Green Bay- 22 NET yards passing in the 4th quarter, til Harris got faked out of his jock and JP still almost managed to hold the ball too long. Favre was Edward Scissorhands in this game.

Miami- Daunte Culpepper was owned, miamis' running game was pathetic and the offense did what again exactly? Oh yeah JP threw for 83 yards in that one and ran for ten, so he accounted for a full 93 yards.

What does this all have in common? When our QB pretends he's not edward scissorhands for the day and the other QB turns into edward, we win.

So, I ask you again, when has JP legitimately helped us win a game?

[TacklingDummy]

Let get this straight:

When the Bills lose, it is JP's fault.

When the Bills win, JP has no effect on the games outcome.

Do I have that correct?

That pretty much sums up his career.

The 4 games JP was the starting QB when the Bills won and the 1 he came off the bench for were won by the defense.

Houston 22-7: Worst team in NFL, D causes 5 Turnovers, The D continues to give the O great Field Position and we get 5 FGs,1TD out of it.

KC: 14-3, The D holding KC to 3 points, caused 4 turnovers. The Bills offense had 9 first downs, 209 Total yards, 13 Drives, 11 drives of 5 plays or less.

Miami 16-6: Losman 83 yards passing, Bills total offense of 171 yards. D causes 1 turnover, 7 sacks

Vikings 17-12
GB 24-10, Fletcher scored 7 of it

In the 5 wins JP had something to do with the Bills Defense has allowed 38 total points, 7.6 PPG. The Bills O scored 86 points, 17.2 PPG. Of those 86 points the Defense could be credited with half of them for setting the offesne up in great field position.

[HHURRICANE]

Yes a better QB makes the running game better. If you have any semblance of a passing attack teams have to play you more honestly. If JP struck fear in the opposing defense, they couldn't load up on the run to stop us because everyone knows that JP can't beat anyone with his arm.

Simple equation...better passing game = less guys in the box to stop the run = more running lanes = more rushing yards = better running game!

And what football have you been listening to that you've never heard a better passing game opens the running game?

Who was the QB in Maimi when Ricky Williams was running all over us?

[HHURRICANE]

That pretty much sums up his career.

The 4 games JP was the starting QB when the Bills won and the 1 he came off the bench for were won by the defense.

Houston 22-7: Worst team in NFL, D causes 5 Turnovers, The D continues to give the O great Field Position and we get 5 FGs,1TD out of it.

KC: 14-3, The D holding KC to 3 points, caused 4 turnovers. The Bills offense had 9 first downs, 209 Total yards, 13 Drives, 11 drives of 5 plays or less.

Miami 16-6: Losman 83 yards passing, Bills total offense of 171 yards. D causes 1 turnover, 7 sacks

Vikings 17-12
GB 24-10, Fletcher scored 7 of it


Your so right. Since the home opener last year against the Texans the Bills have won 8 out of 24 games. The Bills D is so good that we have managed to win one third of our games!! It's so similar to the Bears team it's SCARY!!

[Night Train]

Who was the QB in Maimi when Ricky Williams was running all over us?

:fiedler:

[SquishDaFish]

NE great post man. I cant wait for next year when JP plays great because of his experience and bumps from this year. And a reworked Oline! There is going to be a few haters on this board who are going to have a mouth full of leather from shoe in mouth syndrome

[Mahdi]

I dont' care how bad they were last year or how many rookies are in the lineup..

At the end of the day, a BETTER QB beats NE, the jets and Detroit.. that makes us 6-2...........Whether your a homer, a realist, a negative nancy or a bandwaggon hopper, its the TRUTH..

* Losman didnt play particularly bad vs NE in week one, but he didnt make ANY big plays and his safety sack was the biggest play of the game.

* Losman FiNALLY had "numbers" vs Jets but his INT and fumble return for a TD sealed that deal.

* We dont even want to talk about the detroit game, do we?

So for all the convienant excuses, which may or not be true.. It doesnt matter at WORST this team would have a winning record, and i'm NOT just talking if Manning was the QB.
I agree, a better QB than JP would have won the Jets, Pats and Lions games. But that is exactly what everyone is trying to say. JP cant become that better QB because he is not given a chance to perform at a higher level with all the problems the rest of the team has. This OL is very bad right now and he will not progress as a reader of defenses or as a good decision maker behind it perfoming this way. Everyone knows JP is behind, but the circumstances he is faced with each and every game are not allowing him to improve at a faster rate.

[TacklingDummy]

Your so right. Since the home opener last year against the Texans the Bills have won 8 out of 24 games. The Bills D is so good that we have managed to win one third of our games!! It's so similar to the Bears team it's SCARY!!


If the Bills had a QB they would of won more then 8 of those 24 games.

[justasportsfan]

This week you can watch the game between the Colts and the Bills and see the difference between a good offense and a bad offense first hand. Yeha, I know what you are thinking.... blah blah blah.

I challenge you to watch all areas of both offenses and compare the two before, during, and after the game.

- Look at the recievers on Indy, do they get open? Are they running swift routes that make sense?

- Look at the Bills's receivers and ask yourself the same question. Ask yourself do all the recievers on the field have ample time to get open?

- Watch for differences in the O-lines. Does one line do better than the other in certain areas? Is the Colt's O-line really light years ahead of Buffalo's?

- Do either lines' provide enough time for the QB to effectively get the ball away without being under duress?

- How much time does each line give their QB?

- Watch for differences in the QB play; their footwork, audible calling, judgement, etc.

- Watch the offense as a whole and see if they work together to move the chains. Do they rely on one certain player when really needed?




This game should give Bills fans a good prospective of where our offense is really at. We will see if what the real differences between the best offense and one of the worst offenses is, first hand. And yes I know that we can just sit here for 1 minute and tell how the game will unfold, but humor me.


Don't forget to also compare the amount of years the colts have been together since Manning was drafted compared to Marv and co. when watching the game :up:

[justasportsfan]

That pretty much sums up his career.

The 4 games JP was the starting QB when the Bills won and the 1 he came off the bench for were won by the defense.

Houston 22-7: Worst team in NFL, D causes 5 Turnovers, The D continues to give the O great Field Position and we get 5 FGs,1TD out of it.

KC: 14-3, The D holding KC to 3 points, caused 4 turnovers. The Bills offense had 9 first downs, 209 Total yards, 13 Drives, 11 drives of 5 plays or less.

Miami 16-6: Losman 83 yards passing, Bills total offense of 171 yards. D causes 1 turnover, 7 sacks

Vikings 17-12
GB 24-10, Fletcher scored 7 of it

In the 5 wins JP had something to do with the Bills Defense has allowed 38 total points, 7.6 PPG. The Bills O scored 86 points, 17.2 PPG. Of those 86 points the Defense could be credited with half of them for setting the offesne up in great field position.


Based on your post why were you for Flutie when he had those stats and yet Robosack had better stats?

[PECKERWOOD]

Would Manning really be as good without Wayne, Harrisson and a million other targets to throw to? Would he be as good without such a stellar OL? With all that said, if he were to play for Buffalo right now on the same team as JP, we would probably be around 4-4, if lucky 5-3. He is arguably the best QB in the game, though.

[patmoran2006]

I love the way BillsIN05 simply "Groans" anything NOT positive about the Bills, and "thanks" anything hommerific..

Are you someone who has any thoughts, or are you the official BillsZone "Cheerleader" ???

[PECKERWOOD]

I hope he just groans you, that would make me day.

[patmoran2006]

ha!

[PECKERWOOD]

You dont want to be groan me homie! Gang warz iz bout to be happen.

[justasportsfan]

Hey Pat are you still a Fairchild fan?

[Inetpub]

Would Manning really be as good without Wayne, Harrisson and a million other targets to throw to? Would he be as good without such a stellar OL? With all that said, if he were to play for Buffalo right now on the same team as JP, we would probably be around 4-4, if lucky 5-3. He is arguably the best QB in the game, though.
I agree with the "arguably the best QB in the game" part. What I dont agree is with your 4-4 or 5-3. What Manning brings is leadership and the ability to learn and adapt. Something that is missing in JP. Your opinion is 4-4 but really we will never know as Manning isnt our QB.

But if you asked me, We'd probably be 7-1 if Manning was our QB. More or less because teammates rally around Manning. They believe in him. Coaches are constantly asked how JP is doing. You dont really get the question from the media "Manning hasnt been playing well, do you think you'll replace him?" or you never have Indy fans questioning Manning thier QB. But thats just opinion and like I said, you'll never know because Manning isnt our QB. So its irrelevant.

[PECKERWOOD]

I agree with the "arguably the best QB in the game" part. What I dont agree is with your 4-4 or 5-3. What Manning brings is leadership and the ability to learn and adapt. Something that is missing in JP. Your opinion is 4-4 but really we will never know as Manning isnt our QB.

But if you asked me, We'd probably be 7-1 if Manning was our QB. More or less because teammates rally around Manning. They believe in him. Coaches are constantly asked how JP is doing. You dont really get the question from the media "Manning hasnt been playing well, do you think you'll replace him?" or you never have Indy fans questioning Manning thier QB. But thats just opinion and like I said, you'll never know because Manning isnt our QB. So its irrelevant.

Yeah, this is just a hypothetical thread I guess. So we cant really blast someone for their opinion.. It's just awfully hard to compare which QB would do what, under different circumstances. I just know one thing, Peyton has tons of playmakers around him, and he has a great OL. With that said, Peyton is obviously a better QB than Losman. That isnt even debatable.

[HHURRICANE]

If the Bills had a QB they would of won more then 8 of those 24 games.

Name the games!!!

[raphael120]

want to know the main difference? look at the money being thrown out to the good players on the Colts and look at the money being thrown out at the crappy players on the Bills. Bottom line: We don't go after great talent, we go after affordable talent.

[Inetpub]

Name the games!!!

LOL. I dont see how you have an argument. His statement was an opinion. The only facts are JP won those 4 games but his numbers arent anything amazing in them. Does that mean we would have won more with any other QB? No, but it cant be worst than 4 wins in 16 games. Especially when the Defense is credited for the wins. Im still waiting for you to give us a game that we won where JP was the deciding factor in it. What game has JP won that he was the deciding factor? The only game is the KC game but the Defense stood KC up. JP threw 2 quick tds going in as relief for Holcolmb and he was shutdown after that. And that year KC was HORRID!

[Inetpub]

want to know the main difference? look at the money being thrown out to the good players on the Colts and look at the money being thrown out at the crappy players on the Bills. Bottom line: We don't go after great talent, we go after affordable talent.
Money means nothing. When your on a budget, it doesnt matter how much you throw at a person. YOUR ON A BUDGET! Look at the Yanks. They didnt win the World Series. They bought an allstar team. Money is only an excuse. You can do fine with affordable people who arent allstars but do thier jobs.

Throw over 5 million my way doesnt mean im going to be a better player. Im still going to be 30 and still going to be slower than any WR we have. But if someone wants to pay me 5 million, I'll take it to the bank faster than they can blink! All we need is to find good affordable players for the budget we have. But using money as an excuse is bull.

[TacklingDummy]

Name the games!!!

2006

Lions
1st NE
Jets

2005

Tampa Bay
Atlanta
New Orleans
NE (holcomb was QB, but hes a bum and Bills still should of won)
Carolina
Miami
Jets (Holcomb was QB)

Before you say Im bashing JP you can notice I put in 2 losses in which Holcomb was starter.

I got 10 more wins right there. 18-6 is better then 8-16.

1 position is killing this team and that position happens to be the most important position on the field, QB.

[Dr. Lecter]

Most coaches disagree that QB is the most important position.

[The_Philster]

However, aren't their situations just a little bit different? Manning has been in the same system for his entire career and has been working with the same WR for the majority of that time. He has great WR on the outside (Harrison is among the best WR ever) and has great chemistry with both of them. Manning timing with those guys is so great he can throw the ball out there and he knows they will be there to make the play. You can't discount that.

By contrast, Losman is working for his 2nd regime and 2nd offensive system. He isn't surrounded by the same kind of talent and hasn't had time to build the kind of chemistry with his WR that Manning does. It is only fair to acknowledge those facts..How dare you bring facts and common sense into the argument!! :mad:

[SABURZFAN]

too many excuses. JP is a third year journeyman QB who still plays like a rookie. Go ahead and respond with some more excuses now.


i see Philly Dog and BillsInWhenLosman'sGone negged you.that's their only response. :rolleyes:

[AFJoe]

I'm going to stay out of the JP talk since I don't have a dog in that fight, but I will throw in my 2 cents about something else.

I watched the pathetic Colts go 1-15, 3-13, 1-15 and so on for about 8 years. That was even with Harrison for two of those years. Then came Manning. I never bought into the "the QB position changes the whole game" argument, but now I have seen the light. It makes a huge difference, allow me to give hard, factually examples.

As for the great O-line. Manning has never started a season with the same complete line. Howard Mudd (Colts O-Line coach) believes in the philosophy of "i can put any body in their and coach them up." This has led to only 1 lineman on our roster oveer the Manning Years being a high draft pick (Tarik Glenn). We have 3 gentlemen (including Pro Bowler Jeff Saturday) who were undrafted pickups. Manning not only calls plays, he calls blocking adjustments before the snap. Saturday has gone on record many times saying that Manning has seen blitzes he didn't see coming and would have missed them if not for the audible. A QB can make your line look better.

As for WR. Marvin Harrison is, in my opinion, the second greatest reciever ever. But he has gone on record saying that he has a hard time at Pro Bowls catching other Pro Bowl QB's because they are not as accurate or fluent. Wayne had two horrible years at Indy before Manning took him under his wing and said either get with the program (and forget about the selfish play) or go. Now look at him? Stokley was an average WR at best. His first, and only, full year with Manning as a third WR caught over 1000 YDS and over 10 TD's. He;s not that kind of WR, but was under Manning. Colts WR aren't the type you just throw the ball up to in the air (T.O., Moss, and so on), you must throw good, timed, practiced passes to them.

As for RB. James , before going to Arizona, held teh NFL record for most yards from scrimmage average (125ypg) for a career. We all see how James is doing in Arizona, Addai leads all Rookies in rushing. QB's help the running game too.

Colts D is horrible, end of story. Yet, the QB allows them to get away with a lot of horrible games.

In summary, I didn't believe the QB was that big of deal until Manning came along. He literally makes the entire team better. (And coaching staff...Tom Moore is the O Coordinator and does nothing but give the thumbs up to Manning from the sideline).

[SquishDaFish]

Pat Ill groan you all day. Even threw in a few thanx to you its rare I know. Im sick of debating with you haters who think you should be coaches or Gms its worthless. Ill do all my bragging next season when JP is still the starter and is also leading this team to the playoffs.

[Typ0]

I'm going to stay out of the JP talk since I don't have a dog in that fight, but I will throw in my 2 cents about something else.

I watched the pathetic Colts go 1-15, 3-13, 1-15 and so on for about 8 years. That was even with Harrison for two of those years. Then came Manning. I never bought into the "the QB position changes the whole game" argument, but now I have seen the light. It makes a huge difference, allow me to give hard, factually examples.

As for the great O-line. Manning has never started a season with the same complete line. Howard Mudd (Colts O-Line coach) believes in the philosophy of "i can put any body in their and coach them up." This has led to only 1 lineman on our roster oveer the Manning Years being a high draft pick (Tarik Glenn). We have 3 gentlemen (including Pro Bowler Jeff Saturday) who were undrafted pickups. Manning not only calls plays, he calls blocking adjustments before the snap. Saturday has gone on record many times saying that Manning has seen blitzes he didn't see coming and would have missed them if not for the audible. A QB can make your line look better.

As for WR. Marvin Harrison is, in my opinion, the second greatest reciever ever. But he has gone on record saying that he has a hard time at Pro Bowls catching other Pro Bowl QB's because they are not as accurate or fluent. Wayne had two horrible years at Indy before Manning took him under his wing and said either get with the program (and forget about the selfish play) or go. Now look at him? Stokley was an average WR at best. His first, and only, full year with Manning as a third WR caught over 1000 YDS and over 10 TD's. He;s not that kind of WR, but was under Manning. Colts WR aren't the type you just throw the ball up to in the air (T.O., Moss, and so on), you must throw good, timed, practiced passes to them.

As for RB. James , before going to Arizona, held teh NFL record for most yards from scrimmage average (125ypg) for a career. We all see how James is doing in Arizona, Addai leads all Rookies in rushing. QB's help the running game too.

Colts D is horrible, end of story. Yet, the QB allows them to get away with a lot of horrible games.

In summary, I didn't believe the QB was that big of deal until Manning came along. He literally makes the entire team better. (And coaching staff...Tom Moore is the O Coordinator and does nothing but give the thumbs up to Manning from the sideline).


you're preeching to the choir. They will never listen. They think it's the rest of the team that stinks and another team will make JP suddenly not stink. Good luck with that.