Our "troika" is a bust.

[Mr. Cynical]

IMO, JP, WM and LE are not now nor will ever be Kelly/Thurmal/Reed, Manning/Edge/Harrison or Aikman/Smith/Irvin.

Do we need that level of talent to win? No. But that "was" the plan - to build a troika as the foundation. IMO, I can comfortably say at this point Marv can be pretty confident he doesn't have one right here, right now.

[Crisis]

I still have high hopes for Evans.

I'm still hoping Losman turns it around, but it's not looking good.

I think McGahee is going to be one of the best in the league....on a different team.

[Mr. Cynical]

I still have high hopes for Evans.

I'm still hoping Losman turns it around, but it's not looking good.

I think McGahee is going to be one of the best in the league....on a different team.

I'm with you on Evans. It's a coin flip at this point in my mind.

Agreed on Losman. Always hope for the best but I now expect the worst.

I agree WM will not be Bill as soon as he can get out of B'lo. And I think on a team with an actual oline he can be very productive. But I don't think he is anything special. The few times he's had holes he's not making people miss, showing real speed or doing anything remotely close to his pre-injury stuff. Maybe in another year - on another team - he''ll have had enough time to fully heal. But my money's against that happening. Not only physically but mentally he's just not in the elite category IMO.

[TacklingDummy]

Evans will be gone when his contract is up. You heard it here first. He will goto a warm weather team.

[PECKERWOOD]

Evans is going to be good, Losman is still a question mark and McGahee? Honestly, I think we can do better, jmo though.

[SABURZFAN]

our QB sucks and willis is a question mark.if evans had a QB to throw to him,he could be a top tier WR.

[Goobylal]

The "troika" was nothing without the O-line, and Lofton was a major contributor.

[RedEyE]

I've lost more hope that we're just unable to secure the right people to encompass the "trioka" you described.

I think that both Willis and JP could be playoff caliber players behind a better OL. Evans would perform well anywhere.

JP needs an OL that can form a brickwall that rearely deteriorates. He's a pocket passer with legs and his longball is his specialty. Having OL that can get him stringing the ball downfield would benefit the entire offense. It opens up any defense, especially beneathe the LBs and the corners.

It also helps the run out considerably. LBs and safetys can't cheat as much keeping them honest and leaving them stuck plugging holes and protecting against the pass downfield. Willis would thrive in that situation.

Honestly, I see the Bills just needing to upgrade, upgrade, upgrde the OL (on offense).

I wouldn't be disappointed to see the Bills use whatever it takes to get key line players.

I know that Hutch was mega expensive, but look what he's done for Minnesotta. I wouldn't at all be dissappointed at the Bills staff to have pulled the trigger on that move.

[The_Philster]

I know that Hutch was mega expensive, but look what he's done for Minnesotta. I wouldn't at all be dissappointed at the Bills staff to have pulled the trigger on that move.I wouldn't be either...but we needed a lot more than a guard. Hindsight is 20-20 and who really knew that Bowen and Royal would be both virtually non-existant for us...and Tripplett not much better?

[RedEyE]

I wouldn't be either...but we needed a lot more than a guard. Hindsight is 20-20 and who really knew that Bowen and Royal would be both virtually non-existant for us...and Tripplett not much better?

I completely agree Phil. I was using Hutch as an example and to prove a point. Talent costs money. It was TDs tactic to spend money on middle of the road FAs, and that got us no where fast.

I prefer Bill Polian's technique by building around key players and spend the money and draft picks on unquestionable talent and protection.

I think the Bills have the talent on offense. They just need to focus on getting all the tools (or protection in this case) to support that talent.

[Mr. Pink]

I wouldn't be either...but we needed a lot more than a guard. Hindsight is 20-20 and who really knew that Bowen and Royal would be both virtually non-existant for us...and Tripplett not much better?


There were plenty of people who didn't agree with the move to pick up bowen and royal, among other players. Even right here on these boards. Plenty of us questioned these acquisitions and were accused of being "negative nancies."

So plenty of people knew that neither would do a thing to help us.

You'll just never admit to it, because anyone with a negative opinion or questions what this organization does is just wrong.

[SABURZFAN]

There were plenty of people who didn't agree with the move to pick up bowen and royal, among other players. Even right here on these boards. Plenty of us questioned these acquisitions and were accused of being "negative nancies."

So plenty of people knew that neither would do a thing to help us.

You'll just never admit to it, because anyone with a negative opinion or questions what this organization does is just wrong.



yeah...it's the same people talking in circles.somebody will answer their questions and they spin it another way.before you know it,they can't keep to the same subject.then when they do it to another poster,they don't answer their questions because it's the same thing.they say you don't know what you're talking about,you're not a Bills fan,etc....

[The_Philster]

There were plenty of people who didn't agree with the move to pick up bowen and royal, among other players. Even right here on these boards. Plenty of us questioned these acquisitions and were accused of being "negative nancies."

So plenty of people knew that neither would do a thing to help us.

You'll just never admit to it, because anyone with a negative opinion or questions what this organization does is just wrong.That last sentence just smacks of lies. I questioned both Bowen and Royal's acquisitions...I didn't receive any negative nancy posts that I can remember. Maybe it's not what people are saying but the way they are saying it :2cents:

[SABURZFAN]

That last sentence just smacks of lies. I questioned both Bowen and Royal's acquisitions...I didn't receive any negative nancy posts that I can remember. Maybe it's not what people are saying but the way they are saying it :2cents:


thank you Dr Phil. :rolleyes:

[ParanoidAndroid]

Exactly. If you said you "hoped" that the new guys would emerge, apparently it was assumed you thought it was a great move. We filled some holes with okay players and did it on the cheap. Is anyone really surprised none of them turned out to be pro-bowlers?

[The_Philster]

Exactly. If you said you "hoped" that the new guys would emerge, apparently it was assumed you thought it was a great move. We filled some holes with okay players and did it on the cheap. Is anyone really surprised none of them turned out to be pro-bowlers?
:bf1: The only one I remember who seemed to think the Bowen signing was a really good one was ICE, maybe..and I think pretty much everyone questioned Royal

[TacklingDummy]

Exactly. If you said you "hoped" that the new guys would emerge, apparently it was assumed you thought it was a great move. We filled some holes with okay players and did it on the cheap. Is anyone really surprised none of them turned out to be pro-bowlers?

I said when the Bills signed Andre Davis that he would be lucky to get 20 receptions. He's on pace to have 0 for the year. Even I didn't think it be that bad.

[The_Philster]

I said when the Bills signed Andre Davis that he would be lucky to get 20 receptions. He's on pace to have 0 for the year. Even I didn't think it be that bad.
I admit I hoped he'd do better than that...and for the 1st month he was on the team, I kinda figured he might even start....only because Reed and Parrish have never shown me enough to make me think they can be consistent starters. When we signed Peerless, he got knocked down the depth chart in my mind. To be honest, he didn't do much to impress me in camp, either...kinda thought he was on the bubble

[ParanoidAndroid]

At least he's making some plays on special teams, but yeah, we needed a little more from him.

[The_Philster]

At least he's making some plays on special teams, but yeah, we needed a little more from him.
The O-line looks to be the biggest priority next offseason....but I'd love to pick up a tall strong WR to start in a 3-wide set with Evans and Peerless....to be like Reed and the Reed-Lofton-Beebe trio. I like Evans, don't get me wrong...but I think our passing game suffers from not having a possession WR like Andre Reed or Eric Moulds

[PECKERWOOD]

our QB sucks and willis is a question mark.if evans had a QB to throw to him,he could be a top tier WR.

Your going to set a record of most consecutive posts, with the starting sentence: "Our QB sucks." Mr.Tough **** Talker, how about you think of something original?

[Crisis]

Your going to set a record of most consecutive posts, with the starting sentence: "Our QB sucks." Mr.Tough **** Talker, how about you think of something original?

Our QB blows.

[ParanoidAndroid]

With a go-to deep threat, we could do well with a guy like Ernest Wilford. He's a RFA this off-season. I don't think that Jax will be agressive as far as matching an offer since Reggie Williams has emerged. Wilford stepped up nicely with Williams a bit hobbled by an injury last week. I think he could be the red zone target we are searching for.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I also think our receivers are better than the stat line shows because our QB play/productivity has been suspect.

[PECKERWOOD]

With a go-to deep threat, we could do well with a guy like Ernest Wilford. He's a RFA this off-season. I don't think that Jax will be agressive as far as matching an offer since Reggie Williams has emerged. Wilford stepped up nicely with Williams a bit hobbled by an injury last week. I think he could be the red zone target we are searching for.

Good idea.. Another thread at WR would help this team out enormously. Our offense as of now is 1 dimensional. Think about it, the only threats we have are Willis and Evan's. With the loss of Willis, we wont even have any dimensions, if that were possible.. A legit #2 WR, would spread out defenses more, and hopefully provide A-Train or Willis, with more lanes to choose from.

[TacklingDummy]

Instead of the Bills giving Reed, Price, and Davis 5 year $10 million dollar contracts each. They should of gave :whistle: TO 5 years $30 Million.

[Ron Burgundy]

With a go-to deep threat, we could do well with a guy like Ernest Wilford. He's a RFA this off-season. I don't think that Jax will be agressive as far as matching an offer since Reggie Williams has emerged. Wilford stepped up nicely with Williams a bit hobbled by an injury last week. I think he could be the red zone target we are searching for.

Gross, a Chokie.

Plus he drops passes.

[The_Philster]

Instead of the Bills giving Reed, Price, and Davis 5 year $10 million dollar contracts each. They should of gave :whistle: TO 5 years $30 Million.Josh Reed's contract:4 yrs, $10M; 2M SB
Peerless Price's contract: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 bgColor=#ffffff border=1><CAPTION>Bills Transactions</CAPTION><THEAD><TR><TH borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Details</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD borderColor=#c0c0c0>4 yrs, $10MBase $800,000 (2006); $1.6M (2007); $2M (2008); $2.8M (2009).</TD></TR></TBODY><TFOOT></TFOOT></TABLE>

Andre Davis' contract:1 yrs. $1.3M. SB $500,000. Base $800,000 (2006).

1st you don't even know what kind of contracts that have
2nd...TO is a piece of **** and has proven that for years...and even if he weren't, there's no way he can play 3 positions at once...which, I'm guessing, you mean for that ****** to replace 3 players

[raphael120]

I wouldn't be either...but we needed a lot more than a guard. Hindsight is 20-20 and who really knew that Bowen and Royal would be both virtually non-existant for us...and Tripplett not much better?

i think the fact that theyre both castoffs/washups of the washington redskins, wouldve given you reason enough to know that. they never in their careers have been EXISTANT

[The_Philster]

i think the fact that theyre both castoffs/washups of the washington redskins, wouldve given you reason enough to know that. they never in their careers have been EXISTANT
well, I didn't expect a lot out of them myself...but I hoped they would show a little bit more than they have

[raphael120]

well, I didn't expect a lot out of them myself...but I hoped they would show a little bit more than they have

they were both dumb signings noting the fact that they had undeveloped TE's already on the team who could use some prime time play, and we signed a SS with the 8th round pick, and we're a rebuilding team. everyone knew he was just going to be an expensive backup. hasnt even suited up in a uniform yet on game day...just another FA F-up on Marv's part. he did well in the draft, though. happy for that.

[The_Philster]

and we signed a SS with the 8th round pickBowen was signed over a month before the draft

[Mr. Pink]

Josh Reed's contract:4 yrs, $10M; 2M SB
Peerless Price's contract: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 bgColor=#ffffff border=1><CAPTION>Bills Transactions</CAPTION><THEAD><TR><TH borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Details</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD borderColor=#c0c0c0>4 yrs, $10MBase $800,000 (2006); $1.6M (2007); $2M (2008); $2.8M (2009).</TD></TR></TBODY><TFOOT></TFOOT></TABLE>

Andre Davis' contract:1 yrs. $1.3M. SB $500,000. Base $800,000 (2006).

1st you don't even know what kind of contracts that have
2nd...TO is a piece of **** and has proven that for years...and even if he weren't, there's no way he can play 3 positions at once...which, I'm guessing, you mean for that ****** to replace 3 players

Fine, instead of the TO example...we coulda signed David Givens instead of a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier players at WR. Then we would have had a legitimate number 2 guy. That's the type of stuff plenty of us questioned or remarked on and then got crucified-exaggeration yes-for our opinions.

Instead of wasting our money on a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier period, we coulda gotten a few difference makers, we didn't. And the results show it, unfortunately.

I'm still hopeful that next year, instead of going after those type players we bring in top-flight guys. Like Steinbach, Freeney-if possible, he most likely will be franchised though, instead of the usual signings of other teams retreads.

[raphael120]

Bowen was signed over a month before the draft

yeh but if they really were knowing they were going to take a SS in the first round with their top pick, whats the point of getting a SS in FA?

[raphael120]

well...after this season, i just hope they make moves to get rid of the "weeds" in this young team, and keep the budding solid oaks here, and bring in ...pretty...flowers. lol i dont know why im using garden analogies.

martha stuarts guide to football

[TacklingDummy]

Josh Reed's contract:4 yrs, $10M; 2M SB
Peerless Price's contract: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 bgColor=#ffffff border=1><CAPTION>Bills Transactions</CAPTION><THEAD><TR><TH borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Details</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD borderColor=#c0c0c0>4 yrs, $10MBase $800,000 (2006); $1.6M (2007); $2M (2008); $2.8M (2009).</TD></TR></TBODY><TFOOT></TFOOT></TABLE>

Andre Davis' contract:1 yrs. $1.3M. SB $500,000. Base $800,000 (2006).

1st you don't even know what kind of contracts that have
2nd...TO is a piece of **** and has proven that for years...and even if he weren't, there's no way he can play 3 positions at once...which, I'm guessing, you mean for that ****** to replace 3 players

And over 4 years the 3 of them would of cost around how much?

The point being, for the money they wasted signing 3 has beens, I rather of spent it all on 1 guy that was good.

Has TO ever been arrested for arguing with his girlfriend? TO has character.

[YardRat]

I don't mind the Royals pick-up...he's going to turn out just fine, IMO.

Bowen hasn't seen the field due to injury, and in light of Whitner and Simpson stepping into the starter's roles it's pretty evident that he's relegated to back-up status and special teams...But who knew that at the time of his signing?

As for Price, Davis, etc. - well, this entire offense sucks. A better o-line would make the skill players 'better', but how much? A better QB would make the others 'better' also, but how much?

The 'troika' - Evans is the closest we have to a superstar, and I think he can be Reed-like if the offense as a whole were better. McGahee could be a stud, but only in the right system. His hesitation at the point of attack and lack of breakaway speed indicate to me he'd be better in a zone-blocking scheme. JP? I'm not even going there.

[The_Philster]

yeh but if they really were knowing they were going to take a SS in the first round with their top pick, whats the point of getting a SS in FA?Last I knew, Marv Levy isn't a psychic...they could very well have had plans in place to select a SS in the first round, but they had no way of knowing how the rest of the draft would pan out ahead of them...no matter how many mock drafts they ran or saw


And over 4 years the 3 of them would of cost around how much?

The point being, for the money they wasted signing 3 has beens, I rather of spent it all on 1 guy that was good.

Has TO ever been arrested for arguing with his girlfriend? TO has character.TO's a piece of **** who slanders his teammates and throws his teammates under the bus in general. He has slightly more character than Rae Carruth. You know there was no way in hell that Levy would ever bring that scumbag here...and even if he did, TO wouldn't have made it to Opening day before being thrown over the Falls

[TacklingDummy]

TO's a piece of **** who slanders his teammates and throws his teammates under the bus in general. He has slightly more character than Rae Carruth. You know there was no way in hell that Levy would ever bring that scumbag here...and even if he did, TO wouldn't have made it to Opening day before being thrown over the Falls

As a Bills fan it doesn't bother me that TO called Garcia QB of San Fran a homo.
As a Bills fan it doesn't bother me that TO said some crap about McNabb an Eagle.

It didn't bother Dallas that TO stood on their star 3 times.

TO gets in trouble for opening his mouth. He is a Saint off the filed compared to many other players. Example: Whitner, Carruth, Lewis, Moss, McMike etc....

[The_Philster]

As a Bills fan it doesn't bother me that TO called Garcia QB of San Fran a homo.
As a Bills fan it doesn't bother me that TO said some crap about McNabb an Eagle.

It didn't bother Dallas that TO stood on their star 3 times.

TO gets in trouble for opening his mouth. He is a Saint off the filed compared to many other players. Example: Whitner, Carruth, Lewis, Moss, McMike etc....It was twice he stood on the star first of all
Maybe the fact that he slandered and threw players under the bus on other teams doesn't bother you, but the fact that it shows he has a trend of causing problems does mean something to those of us who have respect for Marv Levy
and the fact that you lumped Whitner in with that group is typical from you...it was purely stupidity placed in there intended to start an argument. Those other players were found to have done something majorly wrong...we have no idea what happened with Whitner and his gf...if getting into an argument with your significant other (which is all we can believe happened with the news that we've seen) makes you a scumbag, then the whole world is filled with scumbags
as far as TO getting in trouble opening his mouth...considering the stupidity that comes out of it most of the time, what do you expect?

[TacklingDummy]

It was twice he stood on the star first of all


Wrong, it was 3 times.

Twice as 49er and once as a Eagle.

He stood on the star in the endzone after scoring a TD.

[The_Philster]

Wrong, it was 3 times.

Twice as 49er and once as a Eagle.

He stood on the star in the endzone after scoring a TD.
well, for 1...I didn't see it as an Eagle...and 2...as a 49er, he ran out to midfield and stood on that star twice

It probably wasn't mentioned a lot when he was an Eagle because 1, he didn't run 50 yards to make an as of himself and 2, everyone got more used to his stupid antics

[Typ0]

the media has TO blown way out of proportion. He's a tremendous talent.

[TacklingDummy]

well, for 1...I didn't see it as an Eagle...and 2...as a 49er, he ran out to midfield and stood on that star twice

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didnt happen. :moon:

So I wasn't wrong (as usual), you were (as usual) :evil:

[The_Philster]

the media has TO blown way out of proportion. He's a tremendous talent.
Yeah..they're using him as a puppet to make him look like a bigger idiot than he is :rolleyes
I might almost buy that argument if it were a case that the media is saying stuff about him....but he's the one telling the media all the garbage. Or did the media hold a gun to his head telling him to call his QB a ***? Or to throw McNabb under the bus?

[The_Philster]

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didnt happen. :moon:

So I wasn't wrong (as usual), you were (as usual) :evil:
didn't say it didn't happen...but you said in the endzone...it was a different star so no, I wasn't wrong :nana:
He ran out to midfield twice and stood on the star

[TacklingDummy]

I agree with most of what TO has had to say.

[The_Philster]

I agree with most of what TO has had to say.
why does that not surprise me? :gag:

[TacklingDummy]

didn't say it didn't happen...but you said in the endzone...it was a different star so no, I wasn't wrong :nana:
He ran out to midfield twice and stood on the star

You said it was only twice. Just admit you were wrong. No harm in it.

[The_Philster]

You said it was only twice. Just admit you were wrong. No harm in it.
it's a matter of semantics

I'll admit I was wrong that he stood on A star only twice
but I was right that he stood on THE star only twice :D :tongue:

[TacklingDummy]

why does that not surprise me? :gag:

Because me and TO both dont have the politically correct opinion.

[TacklingDummy]

I'll admit I was wrong that he stood on A star only twice
but I was right that he stood on THE star only twice :D :tongue:

:rofl:

[Goobylal]

I don't see how people can be grumbling about the Bowen and Royal signings. Royal has been kept in to block mostly because of the O-line, and Bowen has been hurt. I'd agree with complaining about Price's contract seeing his production and the fact that he's being demoted, but Reed has been solid and Davis has been doing well on ST's and isn't getting paid a lot. And it's not like signing these guys prevented the Bills from pursuing other guys. They're still currently about $11M under the cap. But David Givens? C'mon, give us a break! He got a $5M a year contract and isn't even in the top 5 in receiving on his own team.

Fowler has been an upgrade over Teague, but I still think the Bills need a dominant center to return to the glory days on offense. Reyes I didn't think was that bad and at worst he should replace Villarrial, who is a turnstile now. Tripplett seems to be coming-on.

But it's the first year of a new regime. We'll see where the Bills are at this time next year.

[Mr. Cynical]

*** Hijacked thread alert *** :chuk:

You may resume discussion.


:;

[SABURZFAN]

Fowler has been an upgrade over Teague, but I still think the Bills need a dominant center to return to the glory days on offense.



which is why they should have taken mangold in the draft instead of mccargo.

[Goobylal]

In hindsight I agree. But Mangold was no more assured of being good like Jake Grove wasn't assured of being good, and isn't. And with the Bills signing Fowler before the draft, they had a much greater need at DT.

[HHURRICANE]

One thing is for sure, and I will be the first to say that underestimated it, we really needed a good #2 receiver. The signings of Davis and Peerless look really bad right now!!

[Mr. Cynical]

Ka-BOOM.

[GFLuNEEDit]

IMO, JP, WM and LE are not now nor will ever be Kelly/Thurmal/Reed, Manning/Edge/Harrison or Aikman/Smith/Irvin.

Do we need that level of talent to win? No. But that "was" the plan - to build a troika as the foundation. IMO, I can comfortably say at this point Marv can be pretty confident he doesn't have one right here, right now.


I think he can feel comfortable knowing that when the Bills draft for the foreseeable future he won't be sitting around for hours waiting to make his first pick.

In fact he won't have time to finish his coffee before he goes up to the podium.
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