QB, QB, and QB all the time

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Here in Steel city, when the Steelers lose, everyone is talking about why Cowher should sit ben down and start Batch. It was the same way when Kordell was the QB then because everyone wanted to see Maddox.

Ben did win that superbowl earlier this year. But if you watched that game, he had the worst QB rating in the history of superbowl winning QBs. To me, you look at Steelers defense/St this year and watched their tapes last year and you get all your answers about their problems this year.

The Bills are no different. Losman is no good. Then who do you go with? Journey man backups? Drafting another one every year? This much we know: QB is more cerebral than any other positions and thus is most difficult to develop, to even tell. Every year in the draft there are precious few that you have a high confidence. The rest are all long shots. That's why I like the Steelers approach: draft high on guys who are almost a sure thing; get a franchise a QB is a lot of luck, so be patient.

I know almost all GMs won't agree with that. Certainly every fan think he/she can do something better than luck. But in reality, this is what it comes down to: do you keep trying to hit that jackpot of landing a franchise QB (not someone's reject) or do you build a team with the surest bodies you can find?

The Steelers have not selected a first round QB since Bradshaw for years - and winning - until their lucked out on Roethlisberger fell to their lap. They won a superbowl. The Bills has traded away valuable high picks for RJ, Bledsoe, and JP, and they are still searching and losing.

That's why I think I'm OK with the current regime. Since they don't believe in Cutler and Leiner, take their sure thing Whitner and others. JP is not their pick, and I almost sure that they would've not picked him then, but he's here now. He needs time to develop. And we need time to build other pieces of the team. So here we are 3 and 6.

[justasportsfan]

that makes too much sense. I doubt the haters can understand that. I appreciate you taking time to educate them but it'seasier to just blame it all on JP that way they don't have to think. :up:

[OpIv37]

First, how do you decide when JP's had enough time to develop? I defended him for the longest time, but he's basically sucked for the last 5 games and is showing no signs of improvement. Again, I'm not expecting him to come out and put up 300 yards- I just want to see him not miss wide open passes and not attempt to make desperation plays. His lack of progress is reason for serious concern.

Second, if you can't find a franchise QB, what about a caretaker one? Rothlisbergenheimenriener, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams- all these guys won SB's but none could ever be called a "franchise" QB. If you put all the pieces in place, you won't need a franchise QB but you will need someone who's good enough to be a caretaker- ie, protects the ball and has the capability to make a big play on occasion. So far, JP has yet to prove that he can even be that guy, and the Bills have yet to prove that they can put the other pieces in place.

[PECKERWOOD]

Here in Steel city, when the Steelers lose, everyone is talking about why Cowher should sit ben down and start Batch. It was the same way when Kordell was the QB then because everyone wanted to see Maddox.

Ben did win that superbowl earlier this year. But if you watched that game, he had the worst QB rating in the history of superbowl winning QBs. To me, you look at Steelers defense/St this year and watched their tapes last year and you get all your answers about their problems this year.

The Bills are no different. Losman is no good. Then who do you go with? Journey man backups? Drafting another one every year? This much we know: QB is more cerebral than any other positions and thus is most difficult to develop, to even tell. Every year in the draft there are precious few that you have a high confidence. The rest are all long shots. That's why I like the Steelers approach: draft high on guys who are almost a sure thing; get a franchise a QB is a lot of luck, so be patient.

I know almost all GMs won't agree with that. Certainly every fan think he/she can do something better than luck. But in reality, this is what it comes down to: do you keep trying to hit that jackpot of landing a franchise QB (not someone's reject) or do you build a team with the surest bodies you can find?

The Steelers have not selected a first round QB since Bradshaw for years - and winning - until their lucked out on Roethlisberger fell to their lap. They won a superbowl. The Bills has traded away valuable high picks for RJ, Bledsoe, and JP, and they are still searching and losing.

That's why I think I'm OK with the current regime. Since they don't believe in Cutler and Leiner, take their sure thing Whitner and others. JP is not their pick, and I almost sure that they would've not picked him then, but he's here now. He needs time to develop. And we need time to build other pieces of the team. So here we are 3 and 6.

It does make good sense.. I like the idea of taking sure picks. We need to do some digging around for a QB though. I'm not against taking someone with promise in the later rounds. I find it odd, how more and more starting calibre QB's are being found in the later rounds, or coming undrafted. I know Mike Martz is well known for turning nobodies into somebodies at QB. Perhaps Fairchild may have learned a trick from him?

Only time will tell, but we really do need some competition at QB. Even if Losman plays like Peyton Manning for the rest of the season. I want a QB here that is going to push him, and be able to win us games if the Losman experiment goes further down hill.

[justasportsfan]

First, how do you decide when JP's had enough time to develop? .
When he's put in the same situation as Rivers. Rivers never had the problem with his OL. He also has had LT and Gates as weapons. Try comparing both qb's supporting cast I doubt Rivers will thrive here in Buffalo. Rivers also hasn't had to learn a new system while running for his life.

[OpIv37]

When he's put in the same situation as Rivers. Rivers never had the problem with his OL. He also has had LT and Gates as weapons. Try comparing both qb's supporting cast I doubt Rivers will thrive here in Buffalo. Rivers also hasn't had to learn a new system while running for his life.

point taken, BUT...

it's going to take at least one more off-season- if not two- to give JP offensive tools that are in any way comparable to what Rivers has in SD. You're saying it's difficult to evaluate JP right now because the rest of the O (excluding Evans, McGahee and A-train) is so bad, and that's a very valid point.

But what if JP IS a bust? What if these struggles are due as much to him as they are to these other factors? If that's the case, then a season or two from now we'll have a great team being wasted with a ****ty QB, once again. Is that a chance you're willing to take?

[justasportsfan]

point taken, BUT...

it's going to take at least one more off-season- if not two- to give JP offensive tools that are in any way comparable to what Rivers has in SD. ?Then take another qb than can compete with JP. Nall was usppose to be it but he can't even beat KH.


You're saying it's difficult to evaluate JP right now because the rest of the O (excluding Evans, McGahee and A-train) is so bad, and that's a very valid point.?exactly but I wouldn't put A_Train or evans in that group and maybe not even Willis. The OL and TE's however are part of the problem including JP. Also the lack of a bonafide no. 2. Watching the panthers last night. Steve Smith had Keyshawn.


But what if JP IS a bust? What if these struggles are due as much to him as they are to these other factors? If that's the case, then a season or two from now we'll have a great team being wasted with a ****ty QB, once again. Is that a chance you're willing to take?
See first response. Find a young qb to compete with him. Not necesarily a high pick like Quinn.

[PECKERWOOD]

I would like to see a QB with good football instincts and able to make difficult throws. Maybe we can grab one in the 6th round? Any competition would be nice.

[madness]

Somebody please let JP know he can start fumbling the ball and throwing picks again since he's not showing any obvious signs of improvement the last few games.

[OpIv37]

Somebody please let JP know he can start fumbling the ball and throwing picks again since he's not showing any obvious signs of improvement the last few games.

he got away with one against Indy- that should have been a fumble but the refs stopped the play. Where's his improvement on knowing when to take a sack? If anything, a season and a half behind a **** OL should have taught him that.

That being said- you can make a case on the INT's because the NFL moves so much faster, but as far as protecting the ball, it's the SAME at every level of football. It's not like HS or college QB's DON'T have to protect the ball. Inexperience in the NFL is not an excuse for poor fundamentals.

and he only had 13 passes- it's not exactly difficult to throw 13 without throwing a pick against a team playing a 2nd string safety.

[madness]

he got away with one against Indy- that should have been a fumble but the refs stopped the play. Where's his improvement on knowing when to take a sack? If anything, a season and a half behind a **** OL should have taught him that.

That being said- you can make a case on the INT's because the NFL moves so much faster, but as far as protecting the ball, it's the SAME at every level of football. It's not like HS or college QB's DON'T have to protect the ball. Inexperience in the NFL is not an excuse for poor fundamentals.

and he only had 13 passes- it's not exactly difficult to throw 13 without throwing a pick against a team playing a 2nd string safety.

His two knocks before the bye were his ability to protect the ball (fumbles and INT's) and his ability to progress through his reads quickly and accurately. Obviously the protection has precedent over anything else and that's what the coaching staff wanted him to correct first. The turnover ratio since the bye speaks for itself. His read progression obviously will only improve over experience but the O-line woes isn't helping. The low pass attempts the pass two games is not due to lack of confidence in JP(in the o-line if anything) as people suggest, but by design to keep two very good QB's off the field as long as possible. Both Jauron and Marv have recognized JP's progress as of late and I'd expect to see more this weekend against Houston's average pass defense.

[raphael120]

he got away with one against Indy- that should have been a fumble but the refs stopped the play. Where's his improvement on knowing when to take a sack? If anything, a season and a half behind a **** OL should have taught him that.

That being said- you can make a case on the INT's because the NFL moves so much faster, but as far as protecting the ball, it's the SAME at every level of football. It's not like HS or college QB's DON'T have to protect the ball. Inexperience in the NFL is not an excuse for poor fundamentals.

and he only had 13 passes- it's not exactly difficult to throw 13 without throwing a pick against a team playing a 2nd string safety.


what about his development of knowing when to throw the damn ball away and NOT taking a -15 yard sack

[ghz in pittsburgh]

what about his development of knowing when to throw the damn ball away and NOT taking a -15 yard sack

That's very difficult to do, especially for young QBs. They want to make plays.

[GFLuNEEDit]

When he's put in the same situation as Rivers. Rivers never had the problem with his OL. He also has had LT and Gates as weapons. Try comparing both qb's supporting cast I doubt Rivers will thrive here in Buffalo. Rivers also hasn't had to learn a new system while running for his life.

You cannot be serious.
If you can't see that Rivers is head and shoulders above Losman then there is zero doudt in my mind that you are a rehashed Rob Johnson groupie.

[Inetpub]

You cannot be serious.
If you can't see that Rivers is head and shoulders above Losman then there is zero doudt in my mind that you are a rehashed Rob Johnson groupie.

Well hes got a point. What did Rivers do that JP cant? All he did was lead his team to 41 points in a half to win the game. Come back from 21 points down at the half. But really, that has nothing to do with the quarterback since he isnt the one that is leading the team down the field. But lets get realistic. If JP was in that situation, he'd have scored 60 points in the half and wouldnt even be 21 points down.

Also, San Diego would have been 9-0 if they had JP Losman as thier QB. ITs a proven fact. You cant put JP into San Diego's Offense and not expect him to go 9-0. They have LT and Gates and an awesome supporting cast.

What I dont understand is, why in the world did they draft Rivers so high and pass on Losman?

[Typ0]

JP LOSSMAN SUCKS. THREAD CLOSED.