Mark Cambell is awesome!!! [Archive] - BillsZone.com

jdbillsfan

02-28-2003, 10:45 PM

I guess we will see how the rest of the free agency plays out, but I think you guys all have TD blinders on.

Signing Posey definitely means TD thinks that solves our rush LB problems and unfortunately means that we are out of the running for a real blitzing LB like Colvin. Is he really better than Newman?

So what was the purpose of signing McDonnell last year? Are we going to trade for backup TE's that no one else wants every year? If we were looking for a blocking TE, than why not go after a decent one like Dan Campbell of the Giants?

Teyo Johnson is nice, but I do not see him going after a TE for the first couple of picks, now that we have matt cambell.

I have a feeling this is going to be another disappointing offseason and draft. TD is solid in the first round or two, but nothing after that.

Tatonka

02-28-2003, 11:04 PM

dude.. go back and look at his drafts and rethink that last statement.

Typ0

02-28-2003, 11:19 PM

I don't think TD is too concerned about receiving at the tight end position. JR is not a big loss for us especially if we keep price.

Billz_fan

02-28-2003, 11:26 PM

We let JR go and signed a guy who had equal stats for a lesser team and saved money in the process.

Man what a bonehead TD is :mad:

jdbillsfan

03-01-2003, 05:36 AM

Cambell has been in the league 5 years and these are his career highs:

2002
25 Receptions
179 Yards
7.2 Avg.
3 TD

Jay R. had a down year but still had 32 receptions with 350 yards and his career highs are much better than Cambell. I am not saying we should have kept him, I am just saying Cambell didn't have equal stats.

I just look at a team who is actually filling their needs with quality players, like the Redskins. They had a need for Guard and DT. They sign the 2 best guards available and also probably sign Noble.

We have a need for DT, LB, TE, etc. etc. and we sign Jeff Posey and Mark Cambell???

03-01-2003, 08:18 AM

It's just an opinion y'all! Easy, Geez!

Sure he's "fixed our cap" but let's look at what TD's brought in shall we:

In: Jenkins, C. Johnson, Huntley, Robinson, Fletcher, Teague, M. Price, Bledsoe, Moore, Ahanotu.

Jenkins was a bust. Johnson, Huntley, and Moore barely played and were not used. Teague was signed as a weak OT and switched to C b/c he wasn't good at OT, he was overpaid for a C. Fletcher was OK, but not great no matter how you slice it. M. Price was a solid backup, but we had no injuries, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays for 8 games if that happens. Robinson SUCKED! Ahanotu was a starter, but did nothing great. He isn't fast, and isn't a playmaker. Bledsoe, well, enough said there.

It's no wonder he "fixed the cap" w/ talent like that. That really isn't a miracle. It's good cap managment, not spectacular. Especially since Teague is overpaid and was totally out of position last year and we could have had "in position players" for less.

The draft, what, a gimme pick in Williams, a lucky leftover b/c no other teams picked Reed, both great picks, but let's get real, no-brainers. After that, only Wire and Thomas. That's it. The rest will be lucky to be around, perhaps as early as this year. If our draft this year yields only three players, then it'll have been OK, but not great. We don't have a first, so the 2nd had better pan out! Bannan and Denney were wasted picks.

Let's see how TD does w/o a first rounder! I'm not saying he sucks, but I am saying that we could have done more w/ what we had for sure. He's signed quite a few worthless players, more than ones that made enormous impacts, which was essentially Drew. Fletcher is good, but not great by any stretch. I don't think he's as good as what we all thought or what the FO thought we were getting.

Why is it that anyone who expresses such an opinion is berated?

Campbell? Posey? Big deal! It's fun to hope and think positively, but looking at those signings straight up and practically, let's get real here, they're not gonna improve the team. They're depth acquisitions. If we're starting Posey and don't sign a marquee DT then we're gonna be in a world of hurt again on D as or rush D allows another 130 YPG.

So until TD signs a big name or even underrated DT like Thornton, then he hasn't addressed the Bills primary defensive need. And if he thinks he's gonna find that in the draft in round 2, then he's sorely mistaken. The only DT who played well enough as a rookie last year was Haynesworth who was a high first last year.

In the meantime, I sure hope last year's FAcy isn't what we get this year; a bunch of washed up and second tier players who "we're told" will be what they weren't b/c they're in Buffalo now.

03-01-2003, 08:22 AM

I agree jd, while everyone seems to think that Posey's a god and Campbell is gonna somehow do what he's never done, I'm thinkin' these are the good depth and situational picks that we needed, but they aren't going to improve our D.

Thornton will. Peterson will. Scioli will. Spikes will. Douglas will.

But count on one of those unless we do something w/ Price. If TD is to get this much credit, then Price will be gone by next weekend and it'll have been worth the week that we tied up the bucks.

TD's gonna look like a heel if Price signs the offer b/c he and his agent see that no team is gonna pay that kind of money and give up a first rounder for a WR who's had one good season.

So until that happens, and until we sign a DT that we need to close down our rushing D, I'm more with you than on the "TD's a genious" side.

Man, just like in N.E., Bledsoe comes here and TD's a genious. W/o that Bledsoe deal, TD's "work" would have been mediocre last year! And it's very arguable that we would have been better last season w/ another $4-5M spent on D with Blake in here for cheap.

Jeff1220

03-01-2003, 08:30 AM

Check out this thread that Philster started over on the Brownies' site:
http://dawgtalk.clevelandbrowns.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=198898&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

It seems that Browns fans mostly like this guy. They say his hands are great - "like a vacuum" and that he will be a real asset on the goalline. They also said that he is an average blocker, but that being around Couch has hurt his production (they seem to think he'll do better w/Drew)

jdbillsfan

03-01-2003, 08:51 AM

I totally agree Wys. I have been a little sarcastic in this post, but after three years I am starting to get annoyed with some of these moves. After last offseason, I don't have high hopes for signing some of the top FA's, so until that happens, and while we keep signing backup players, I am going to be frustrated.

So far we have almost spent 2 mil on guys no other team wants and who we are hoping are going to be good, instead of actually picking up proven commodities. (I think we are down to about 6mil now?)

My prediction is for the rest of the offseason:

We get Barber, who like Fletcher is decent and is an upgrade to what we had, but not a game breaker or difference maker. Also like fletcher, undersized. Though, it will be ok, it will not bring the excitement of someone like Spikes. We will then have a small LB corp behind a line that can't stop the run. Probably pick up some more ex steelers or titans who are towards the end of their career. Maybe some more players who were injury prone, but never got to prove themself, career backups, players who have been cut 8 times (just weren't in the right systems) etc. etc. etc.

We will do well in the first round or two of the draft and then start drafting no names who will probably make the team and add more depth without providing any quality starters.

Then we will play hard ball with our signings next season. Probably lose someone we should have signed. Blame the .500 season on coaching maybe. Realize that GW maybe wasn't the right person and then start from scratch.

You heard it hear first!

The_Philster

03-01-2003, 08:52 AM

Nice to see I got some responses over there so quickly. :up:

jdbillsfan

03-01-2003, 08:58 AM

I could maybe see picking up these two guys after we have already signed our primary targets and have extra cash, but I don't see lowering our cap space on these guys before signing top players. I don't think there would have been a mad rush to run out and sign Jeff Posey and Mark Cambell.

Billz_fan

03-01-2003, 09:25 AM

Well Im not "in the know" enough on the inside of the bussiness of being GM etc. to be able to say that all the things we want/need could be achieved in the desired order of most needed/least needed.

So that means Im not sure either way and you may be correct.

I do have faith however that TD will get the players needed to do get us over the hump and into the post season.

It may be just the case of timing with these two signings. That they were available and the price was right so why not get it out of the way now.

Posey and Cambell weren't at the top of my free agent list either. I am willing to tow the line untill the team doesn't produce. When that happens I will call for the heads of the staff just like everyone else

:laughter:

Dozerdog

03-01-2003, 09:43 AM

Well said, BillZ

LMAO at Wys.

Everybody gets flustered about Huntley, even though he didn't prevent us from getting anybody else and never made the team.

People think we had a ton of cap space last season, when we really didn't. We got our Marquee guys in Bledsoe ( a bargain in cost of picks and cost against the cap) Fletcher, and 3 good players in Teague (overpaid for a center, but cheaper than a backup center, guard, and tackle combined- in which he can play as well) , Dave Moore and Mike Hollis. The rest were to fill out a roster with cheap veterans.

Now, we have room to get 1 or 2 more marquee guys, along with more decent players. (Like Posey, McKenzie)

As far as it being another dissapointing off season, I really don't know where you've been the past 2 years. Please post who would have come here last offseason that we neglected to bust the bank for.

jdbillsfan

03-01-2003, 10:04 AM

James Farrior, Josh Evans to name a couple.

Does losing Newman and getting Posey really make a difference?

brownsonthebrain

03-01-2003, 10:06 AM

Mark Campbell was my man. He was consistent all season. He does not do anything really well, but he works hard. He's got good hands can block pretty well. What got him traded was, he's slow and isn't going to break tackles. IMO
He sat out the 2001 season, played hard all year long in 2002.
I felt then, as I do now, that with some better conditioning he could be a solid addition to your team. Not starter material now, but a solid capable, dependable backup. The kind you need.

You got a good player and didn't have to give up much to get him.

So sad to see him go . . . :(

good luck guys!

Herdwatcher

03-01-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Take it easy guys, I think JDbillsfan just misses Wade, Maulk ,Jones and Rob Johnson.

Can you blame him! "Rob Johnson" A Buffalo Icon!

Novacane

03-01-2003, 11:36 AM

jdbillsfan AKA Wys ?

justasportsfan

03-01-2003, 12:43 PM

Wys is bringing up Blake again. Didn't he play last year? Did he get the starting job for another team? You complain about the scrubs (and I do have to admit Robinson and some others were) we got and yet you want another reject for a QB? Doesn't make sense.

Sure they are just merely opinions. Then again having been in cap hell and being one game away from the div. champs in two years that TD's been here is jumping the gun too early when it's plain to see the team has gotten better in two years.

You were one of the biggest Buttler bashers and then once again judging TD in just two years. Let me ask you JDbills and wys, who would you have hired as a manager back then instead of TD?

Nevermind your qb opinions wys. You who wanted to pay Rob Johnson for 1 million to keep him here and not even want Drew here even for vet. minimun. We all know that even Flutie was a bettter QB , but for you to take Rob for more money than Drew????

don137

03-01-2003, 12:55 PM

Fletcher is a better pick up then most people think IMO. Unfortunately, he was taken out of the play too often at times because the DT's could not hold the line so the center, guard or fullback penetrated through the line to effectively block Fletcher. The SAMETHING happened to Brian Urlacher this year when Chicago had injuries at DT. JD, you suggest we should of picked up Farrior but he would not of done any better than Flecther because of the weak play at the line of scrimmage.

Not all of TD's moves worked out but tell me JD since you seem to be the harshest what do you expect when TD had nothing two years ago as far as cap money and very little last year. You seem to forget they couldn't sign multiple solid FA's because they didn't have the money. Some deals worked and some didn't but TD built a formidable team through the draft and had very little money to sign FA players. JD, you seem to forget the Bills were in cap jail and couldn't get the "A" players since there were too many positions to fill. Plus the Bills weren't exactly an attractive team to come play for the last couple of years thanks to Mr. Butler putting us in cap jail so not everyone wanted to come here. This year will be a better gauge to just TD since he has some money.
JD, instead of constantly critcizing and suggesting they sign every top player available at every position offer some suggestions of how to fill the holes with both solid and role players and take into consideration the salary cap.

The_Philster

03-01-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by brownsonthebrain
Mark Campbell was my man. He was consistent all season. He does not do anything really well, but he works hard. He's got good hands can block pretty well. What got him traded was, he's slow and isn't going to break tackles. IMO
He sat out the 2001 season, played hard all year long in 2002.
I felt then, as I do now, that with some better conditioning he could be a solid addition to your team. Not starter material now, but a solid capable, dependable backup. The kind you need.

You got a good player and didn't have to give up much to get him.

So sad to see him go . . . :(

good luck guys!
:welcome: brownsonthebrain
He sounds like exactly what we need. With Dave Moore the new starter by default, we only needed a capable backup or two. Sounds just like what we got. :up:

jdbillsfan

03-01-2003, 04:29 PM

Well, one thing is I would rather sign a bonafide starter than 2 or 3 backups. I think we probably could have afforded Farrior as a OLB, instead of paying for guys like Robinson, Jenkins, etc.

This year, instead of signing Posey and Cambell for a 1.7 mill or so cap hit, I would rather sign 1 actual good starter who will be with the team for a while. Last year, it seemed like we did a similar thing and sign about 7 or 8 Free agents, when we could have actually gotten a few good starters out of that.

I was happy with the Fletcher pickup, considering our options, but I think we probably could have gotten another good player instead of signing all those scrubs "for depth"

I guess I am in the minority here and that is fine. It may be too early to judge and I may be being too harsh, but it seems like the same type of trend last year and it sucked.

03-01-2003, 04:48 PM

137,

I agree w/ you on Fletcher. I'll give him this season b/c it was difficult to evaluate him w/ the cast around him.

Dozer,

Again, you missed my point entirely. Your basic point supports the "TD's a genious" notion, however, all you essentially said wast that "not all of his selections were expensive or bad." Well big deal. Not one outside of Drew was a blockbuster. The real talent for a GM comes not in the doing the right thing w/ the 4th overall selection, or in selecting a talent player that happened to slip to the early second when he shouldn't have. The real talent for a GM comes now where you do the right thing instead of tying up huge cash for a position you don't need and nickel and diming the team for the rest. It also comes w/ the picks in rounds 3-7.

Frankly, I didn't see a whole lot of contributors in those rounds other than Wire and possibly Thomas who I said is our best cover corner in case you missed that. But other than that, our other 3rd, 2nd, and other picks were basically a bust.

Essentially what you said was that he could have done better in that there was significant room for improvement, but then implied that he's the genious!

This offseason, what have we done? Nada! Yet.

But I agree with you. We didn't overspend, and some players are overpaid. I still don't see how this means anything even close to TD's some sort of mastermind.

He'll be a mastermind in most people's book when he "fixes the D" as he said was his priority. In the meantime, that's gonna be a little difficult for him to do given that all the marquee players may in fact be long gone prior to us having the cap money to sign them. Under any circumstances, we have enough to sign one marquee player right now and some "change" players. That's it. So until that other $5M becomes available, there are gonna be a lot of disheartened Bills fans who want to see TD live up to his own words and not by signing more Robinsons, Favors, Jones, Ahanotus, etc., etc. and hoping that they "become what TD says they will." It didn't happen last year w/ a whole bunch of guys. And if we overspend again even on only a player or two in the $2-3M range, it's gonna cost us.

Part of being a shrewd GM is signing better players, like Thornton, for less money instead of mediocre players, like Teague, and arguably Fletcher, for more money.

JMO though.

As to Barber, he's almost purely a pass D LB. He has little value against the run which was our biggest weakness last season. As well, fixing the run D, counter to the claims of many, won't happen with an OLB. It's gonna take a DT to start opposite PW.

03-01-2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
jdbillsfan AKA Wys ?

It's funny, just b/c you don't think that TD's the best GM in the league, Bledsoe is not god jr., Fletcher's a cut below Ray Lewis, and that Jerry Gray sucks, you get thrown into some category.

:rolleyes:

MissBuffalo

03-01-2003, 04:54 PM

I agree with jd and Wys on the Posey signing. To me, it's just like re-signing Newman. Posey's only decent year came while he was playing in the 3-4. Just like Keith. It's very ironic that Houston has contacted Newman for a possible replacement for Posey. I mean 5 different teams in 6 years??? And all those teams ran a 4-3 style D???
Campbell was an OK pickup IMO. He'll make a good backup to Moore.

Michael82

03-01-2003, 04:57 PM

The big problem with your thinking jd, is that we were more than just 1 or 2 players away from Super Bowl champion last year. We needed more than just 1 or 2 marquee players. I think the same thing this year. We have the money and will sign 2 or 3 big names, but also a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier players. We still are more than 2 big names away from being a super bowl contender. TD realizes this and doesn't want to put us in cap hell by signing every guy in site. He is the General Manager of the team for this reason and you are just a fan. He has a lot more football and money knowledge than any of us fans. And if you think he is not doing the right stuff, you are definitely in the minority. Ask Ingtar. He will tell you. The Buffalo Bills and other teams cant just blow their wad right in the beginning on one or two big names. You gotta wait it out and get the bargain prices too. Look at Washington. They do this every year....spend all their money in the beginning and get big names...but haven't been to the big game in ages. Relax and take a breath. TD knows what he is doing. :D

:up:

Romes

03-01-2003, 05:01 PM

I'm not saying Posey is a great signing, but i think it is an improvement. It might be just like signing Kieth but this is a player who wants to be here. Unlike, Kieth this guy actually produced last year. He is taller and faster.

Even if it isn't an improvement he cannot be any worse (look at Newman's production last year) I would have been happy with a solid Peterson/Barber/Spikes/ Colvin and Newman as our OLBs. Therefore if we get one of those big name LB's I will be content with our LB core.

03-01-2003, 05:09 PM

Mike,

But the problem is that as we sign more players in the $1.5M-$2M range, the less the chances are of signing those players that you say we need. And you are wrong about us needing too many players. PW will prove to be a Pro Bowl T unless we wait until he's 34 before getting him some help!

We have a heck of a core. Our secondary is fine, great at the corners. Fletcher is adequate in the middle. PW is excellent and Schobel is a bonafide starter if nothing else.

One huge player on the line and another in the LBing corps will reap HUGE rewards. You have to remember, that all we need is a DT to improve our rushing D incredibly. If we drop from allowing 133 YPG rushing to say 100-110, w/ our O that will be huge.

All we need is a DT and an OLB that is a big play guy. The rest will shape around them and what we have. You don't need 11 stellar players. You need at least one at each position and a strong DL. We have that except for a strong LB and DL. Signing Thornton will fix that on the DL. Peterson will fix that at LB.

Romes,

Saying we've improved isn't saying much. We could have "improved" just by playing Newman instead of Robinson. We have no OLBs, so any player better than Robinson, which is not hard to do, can be considered an improvement.

I'm curious as to what TD's approach will be here.

03-01-2003, 05:10 PM

A chance that he's trying to trade for Brookings? He's a MLB, nonetheless, it'd be a good trade for us as long as we could deal Fletcher.

MissBuffalo

03-01-2003, 05:15 PM

He produced last year, but in a 3-4. Until he proves he can play in a 4-3 style, I'll be skeptical. Keith's "big season" with the Bills was also in the 3-4.

I'll be content too if we get a big name LB to add. But Posey will still have to show me that his recent success isn't just a flash of brillance due to a defensive scheme that taylors to the OLB position.

Michael82

03-01-2003, 05:16 PM

What the hell do you have against fletcher>?!?!?!? He had over 100 tackles and did pretty damn good once he learned the system. I can see him being a Pro-Bowl LB eventually. He's better than Zach Thomas and many other LBs.

03-01-2003, 05:45 PM

I don't have anything against Fletcher.

Anyone would have had 100 plus tackles playing MLB on our team last year. The line was a sieve.

Fletcher may be very good when the talent is around him. He's obviously got some pass D shortcomings, that much should have been blatant! His other skills are OK but not great by any stretch.

He is what he is. He's an average+ LB.

don137

03-01-2003, 06:03 PM

Thanks Jd for the feedback...One thing to remember about Jenkins. He was signed by TD before the draft so they didn't know that they would get Coy Wire and that he would develop into a starter so quickly. In hindsight yes he was a bad signing but if for a minute the Bills knew they would get Wire in the draft and he would of developed so quickly they would of never signed Jenkins. I also am not sure if they had enough money to sign Farrior if you take out Jenkins and Robinson's contract. Plus whose to say Farrior would want to come here last year. Given the Bills salary cap and assuming Price will not be here and take Campbell and Posey out of the equation who do you think the Bills should get to fill the backup TE, weak and strong side linebacker, DT, possibly a DE and leave enough money for a couple depth positions, kicker and the draft.

Wys, I assume you are referring to Denney as a bust and not Reed when you mentioned our second round pick. I think many people were disappointed in Denney. They lost there 3rd and 4th round pick for Denney. Picked up Wire with the comepensetory pick in round 3, the jury is still out on Bannan, their 5th round pick, but early on he looks like nothing more than a journeyman, Thomas is round 6. Too early to tell on the players picked up in round 7 but right now Wright is a bust and Pucillo looks like a project player. Overall besides Denney I was thrilled with the job they did in the middle rounds.

03-02-2003, 12:18 PM

Right, Denney. LOL You know I'm very high on Reed.

On Denney, what surprised me is if I remember correctly, he wasn't on a single draft list higher than the 5th round and then only on some. There wasn't another analyst/team who said it was a good pick. There was only seeming bewilderment.

Ie., seems to me even if we were interested in Denney, that we could have used the late 2nd for someone else and still grabbed Denney in the 4th or so if the staff was so high on him.

Just shows that even the scouts are often wrong.

Thomas was a GREAT pick in round 6. I really think that Thomas is gonna be our best pure cover guy this year. He doesn't seem to be able to play the run nearly as hard as AW or NC, but at least for the games he played last season, he was on his man like glue which was a coverage ability that we didn't have prior to that. Even AW and NC aren't that good in coverage.

Once we fix our DL, everything will shake out. It'll "flow downhill" so-to-speak. That's assuming we actually get a DT like Thornton, who would be perfect for this team. A very good run stuffer who can rush the passer too. He's not great at either, but well above average in both. Plays the run better. I had my eye on him last year once my Titans bud told me that he was not going to be with the Titans this upcoming season. He was right, Thornton's a very good player. What I like about him is that he's just entering his prime. Those are the types of players that we should pick up. They're less expensive, they're solid and only expected to improve as they enter and reach their primes, and their underrated given all that.

03-02-2003, 12:25 PM

BTW, how and where would you rate our 2002 offseason?

Here was our draft:

1 4 Mike Williams OT Texas
2 36 Josh Reed WR LSU
2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young
3 97 Coy Wire S Stanford
5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado
6 176 Kevin Thomas CB UNLV
7 215 Mike Pucillo OG Auburn
7 250 Rodney Wright WR Fresno St.
7 252 Jarrett Ferguson FB Virginia Tech
7 260 Dominique Stevenson OLB Tennessee

Here were our FA pickups or other acquired:

Ahanotu
Bledsoe
Fletcher
Hollis
Huntley
Jenkins
Johnson
Moore
M. Price
Robinson
Rogers

03-02-2003, 12:34 PM

In hindsight, I'd rate our draft a B+ only b/c after Reed at 36, only 2 of 8 players drafted seem to be headed to amounting to anything. Wire and Thomas and neither are givens yet either.

Williams at #4 overall was a no brainer especially given our obvious need for an OT first and foremost, and so was Reed at #36 overall since no one had taken him and he was the most prolific, or one of the 2/3 most prolific WRs in the draft last year w/ exceptional SEC credentials and accolades.

Our free-agency/trade success was largely defined by the Bledsoe deal. I still think that N.E. would have given him to us outright if we had waited a little longer. TD could have played better poker then. He could have signed Blake for vet min or very near it and then outwaited N.E. to where we wouldn't have had to give up our pick. Anyway, Bledsoe's signing really defined our offseason since he was such a marquee player.

After that, I'll create four categories:

Good/very good moves, Moves that helped us but weren't stellar, Average take it or leave it moves, and Busts or Ho-Hum moves.

Good/very good moves: Bledsoe, Price (depth only however and wasn't a huge factor)

Moves that helped us but weren't stellar: Fletcher, Hollis, Moore

Average take it or leave it moves: Ahanotu, Rogers

Busts or Ho-Hum moves that either didn't help us or were awful: Huntley, Jenkins, Johnson, Robinson

Not saying those players aren't OK, just that they didn't do anything for us. Robinson was one of the worst signings in Bills' history IMO.

justasportsfan

03-02-2003, 12:41 PM

Not great but good. I will base this on how the team went from 3-13 to 8-8 . 1 game away from playoffs. From being the joke of the AFCE to being a respectable team and team to watch all in 2 years time.

Hopefully , we will be a ligit contender instead of pretender via the FA. The FA's we got last year were simply plug and play. Keep what worked and get rid of what didn't. (Robinson)

casdhf

03-02-2003, 12:49 PM

Must be something in the water in Virginia.

03-02-2003, 12:50 PM

Yeah, well as much as many don't want to admit it, our schedule had a lot to do with our being .500 last year.

We beat a 2-14 team, a 3-13 team, two 4-12 teams, a 6-10 team, and then only an 8-8 team and Miami in two games in which they were at their worst all season injury wise.

So I'm not puttin' too much credence in our record.

We can put a 12-4 team on the field as long as we address our DL issues and sign decent LB who can play both the run and pass. But if we end up stuck w/ Price and sign only a bunch of "Poseys", then that won't happen and we can expect another .500 season. Especially in our division which should improve again all the way around.

don137

03-02-2003, 12:57 PM

I'd say a B+ is a very accurate grade. It would of been an A if Denney showed us something. He really hurt the draft grade. To give up a 3rd and 4th rounder was a disappointement considering he was 25 years old and he did not contribute much. Picking up Reed made Price expendable and TD had the vision ahead of time to see this. That was a A+ management move.

Considering the dollars they had to spend on Fletcher and Bledsoe there was not a lot of money to spend on the other positions. I believe TD realized the Bills are in rebuilding mode and realized players all those signings like Robinson, Ahonotu, Johnson, Huntley and Jenkins were fillers. Not a lot of money was shelled out for those players and I didn't see a lot of other players they could of signed to similar salaries. Many people are are very critical of the Jenkins signing but he was signed before the draft and TD didn't know he would be able to draft Wire no one expected Wire to be as contribute so fast.
I really liked the Moore signing but I did not like the Rogers trade. I thought Rogers sucked as a return man.
Considering the money TD had to work with due to the salary cap and the difficulty of attracting FA players to Buffalo (remember Drew did not become a Bill before we were a month and a half into FA) I would give his 2002 off-season grade a B.
This year is the real test for TD and Modrak. They have the money to sign some players and Buffalo appears to be an up and coming team so it should be more marketable players.

03-02-2003, 01:03 PM

Nicely summed up 137!!!

On Denney, what made that move really bad was that we could have easily used one of the traded picks to get him instead.

On Rogers and Jenkins, I wasn't speculating as to why those players didn't help much, just that when it all shook out, they were what they were.

Rogers helped us since we had absolutely no return man prior. He wasn't great, but he wasn't a bust either. He was at or near average. A tad below IMO. Jenkins I questioned when it was made. I would have done something different or planned on drafting a rookie S.

I strongly agree that this year's FAcy plan will determine how good TD is. He has both cap space and quite a few options.

Don't forget however, that even last year we sorely needed a DT, our second greatest need actually, even then. We were told that there wasn't enough money to get one and that it would have to wait until this year. Well, here it is. So does money talk, or B.S. walk on this issue?

That remains to be seen...

Tatonka

03-02-2003, 01:25 PM

not that i think denny is a good pick at all.. but wys, pittsburg was about to draft him, that is why td moved up to get him.. just a fyi

Stewie

03-02-2003, 06:32 PM

"On Denney, what made that move really bad was that we could have easily used one of the traded picks to get him instead."

Umm sorry dude but Pittsburgh went on the record saying they were going to draft Denney with the very next pick after we got him.

I strongly agree that this year's FAcy plan will determine how good TD is. He has both cap space and quite a few options.

jdbillsfan

03-02-2003, 08:17 PM

Well, I have calmed down a little bit since you last heard from me. I have returned to wait and see mode, instead of bitter and angry.

I still stand by everything I said though and still not enamored with TD. I think B+ is a high grade for the last draft considering we had the 4th pick in the 1st two rounds. Thomas might be good and that would be great and I hope Wire learns how to tackle, but other than that not much.

Wasn't really happy with the FA picks last year, except flecther and Bledsoe was a good move, even though we were basically the only team after him besides the Bengals. Still thought we coulda signed another good player like Farrior or Fisk instead of the 12 other scrubs we signed and the foreman trade hurt us, but I will be patient this year.

I think Noble just signed for almost the same as we payed for Posey and I have a feeling that TD is gonna pass on Thorton as well. The only players who seem to be on our radar screen are Sam Adams and Takeo Spikes which would definitely limit what more we could do this year in FA. Spikes would be a good pickup, but S. Adams sucks.

Guess we just have to wait and see. Not sure if it is something in the water or not, but I think guys from Virginia just know more about football.

JUST KIDDING!!!

justasportsfan

03-02-2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by jdbillsfan
but I think guys from Virginia just know more about football

Yup, it's the water :drinker:

03-02-2003, 08:40 PM

Thanks T, PaulB,

I wasn't aware of Pittsburgh's intentions. Still, he wasn't listed on many draft boards in the first 3 or 4 rounds. I couldn't find him on any of the main 3 or 4 that I was using I remember.

jd,

I think Upshaw's the one who signed for about what Posey signed for. I couldnt' find $ info on Noble, but if he only signed for ~ $2M/yr., then we'd have had to have been cracked to not insist he come here for an interview if we didn't.

On Thornton it's funny, we pick up all kinds of junk from Pittsburgh and Tennessee, and then when it comes to a player who's available and who we need, we don't even budge.

:rolleyes:

Not exactly marks of genious.

don137

03-03-2003, 06:24 AM

Wys, I believe I saw Noble signed a 4 year 7 million dollar contract. I thought that was a great price for him.

03-03-2003, 06:31 AM

Well, if that is the case, then we were foolish to not at least contact his agent if we didn't. We'd also be foolish given that if we don't bring Thornton in here for a visit. I'm sure GW's influence can get him here and I thought he'd be a good signing, especially in light of what TD paid for Posey, to get Thornton for ~ $3M/yr.

Seems like he may come cheaper if in fact Noble only signed a 4 yr. $7M contract. That'd be a bargain for us for Thornton and would be the best move of our offseason so far and put TD at the B grade already for it.

So how come we haven't spoken to Thornton yet then I wonder. Puzzling. If another team signs him for similar, it sure ain't gonna increase my faith in TD.