Coach Sal is right...

[raphael120]

Why do you not trust JP if he's the one that the coaches picked as the starter???

Why have him out there if you dont have enough confidence in him to win games?

Why, if you want to see what he can do, only attempt 13 passes?

A QB in the NFL...has to sometimes WIN a game for the team...a QB is the LEADER of the team, and winning games is what a QB is PAID to do...a QB is not paid millions of dollars and drafted by his skill of HANDING OFF THE BALL TO A RUNNING BACK EVERY PLAY!

If the Bills are playing to win...then either use JP as part of that, see if he can win...and if JP CAN'T do it, then PULL HIM.

Caretaker QB's DO NOT WIN SUPERBOWLS!

[raphael120]

whoops, sorry computer is messin up, can someone please delete the first thread?

[The_Philster]

Caretaker QB's DO NOT WIN SUPERBOWLS!technically, no QB wins a Super Bowl...or any game...but still....Trent Dilfer was the winning QB for Baltimore for one

[PECKERWOOD]

Brad Johnson was one too.

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh, dont forget about Big Ben.

[theanswer74]

Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are probowl QB's.

[Coach Sal]

Why do you not trust JP if he's the one that the coaches picked as the starter???

Why have him out there if you dont have enough confidence in him to win games?

Why, if you want to see what he can do, only attempt 13 passes?

A QB in the NFL...has to sometimes WIN a game for the team...a QB is the LEADER of the team, and winning games is what a QB is PAID to do...a QB is not paid millions of dollars and drafted by his skill of HANDING OFF THE BALL TO A RUNNING BACK EVERY PLAY!

If the Bills are playing to win...then either use JP as part of that, see if he can win...and if JP CAN'T do it, then PULL HIM.

Caretaker QB's DO NOT WIN SUPERBOWLS!

Thanks for the pub, raphael.

But I do want to clarify for those who haven't listened to this episode.

My position is that JP has not done anything to warrant being pulled. That's because he hasn't been asked to do anything that can get him pulled.

From the very first episode I've said that I'm sick and tired of having a "babysitter" or a "caretaker" at QB. The Bills have a recent history of that. JP fairly won the QB battle in training camp. That means the coaches feel he's an NFL-caliber QB who can win games.

So, why not give him the opportunity to win games? The ONLY way you can adequately evaluate him and decide on his future in Buffalo is by putting him in positions other than "caretaker" and see how he responds. Not every week...but enough to see if he CAN do it. So far, he hasn't demonstrated he CAN - but at the same time - he hasn't demonstrated he CAN'T! Unless, of course, Marv's and Dick's plan is to develop him into a "game manager" for his entire future and use him in that role. Well, if that's the case, get rid of him, because we can pay a lot of guys a lot less than 1st round pick money for the next five years to do that.

Hope that all makes sense. The link to the episode is in the thread stuck at the top.

[Coach Sal]

technically, no QB wins a Super Bowl...or any game...but still....Trent Dilfer was the winning QB for Baltimore for one

It is a team game, Phil, but I'm sorry, it is a myth that Trent Dilfer was a caretaker for the Ravens offense. At least not nearly as much as most think he was, if at all.

It's a myth because of how good their defense was and because, well, his name is Trent Dilfer.

Here are Dilfer's attempts throughout the 2000 season once he took over and started: 24, 34, 36, 24, 23, 24, 22, 25.

Here's the number of points his team scored in those games (I don't know if any were by the defense): 9, 27, 24, 27, 44, 24, 13, 34.

Those are in no way the numbers of a "caretaker" at QB.

Let JP be an NFL QB and let's see what we've got!

[GFLuNEEDit]

Brad Johnson was one too.
Brad Johnson is a far better QB then Losman.

And Losman will never win a superbowl unless he is on the bench as a backup.

[The_Philster]

Brad Johnson is a far better QB then Losman.

And Losman will never win a superbowl unless he is on the bench as a backup.
still waiting for those lotto numbers Mr. I-can-see-the-future

[Coach Sal]

Brad Johnson was one too.

Again, another myth.

Check out Brad Johnson's numbers that year (2002). He was throwin' the ball all over the place:

Cmp.Att.Yds.TD/INT
-28 52 278 2 0 |
-24 31 211 0 0 |
-23 32 199 1 0 |
-19 30 277 3 2 |
-17 31 261 1 1 |
-15 32 194 0 1 |
-19 31 124 0 1 |
-24 31 313 5 0 |
-22 40 253 2 0 |
-15 25 134 2 0 |
-28 44 276 2 1 |
-23 31 276 4 0 |
-24 41 253 0 0 |
-----------------------
281 451 3049 22 6

He was 8th in TD passes in the league. And he was a Pro Bowler.

His team scored 31, 27, and 48 in the three playoff games they played that year.

He had ONE game where he threw less than 30 passes!
Those are anything but the numbers of a "caretaker" at QB.

Because the Bucs defense was so good, Johnson doesn't get much recognition for what he and the offense did that season.

[PECKERWOOD]

Brad Johnson is a far better QB then Losman.

And Losman will never win a superbowl unless he is on the bench as a backup.

Johnson is a weathered veteran. He knows how to manage games, thats it. I'm not going to compare which QB is better, because honestly I dont care to.

[PECKERWOOD]

Again, another myth.

Check out Brad Johnson's numbers that year (2002). He was throwin' the ball all over the place:

Cmp.Att.Yds.TD/INT
-28 52 278 2 0 |
-24 31 211 0 0 |
-23 32 199 1 0 |
-19 30 277 3 2 |
-17 31 261 1 1 |
-15 32 194 0 1 |
-19 31 124 0 1 |
-24 31 313 5 0 |
-22 40 253 2 0 |
-15 25 134 2 0 |
-28 44 276 2 1 |
-23 31 276 4 0 |
-24 41 253 0 0 |
-----------------------
281 451 3049 22 6

He was 8th in TD passes in the league. And he was a Pro Bowler.

His team scored 31, 27, and 48 in the three playoff games they played that year.

He had ONE game where he threw less than 30 passes!
Those are anything but the numbers of a "caretaker" at QB.

Because the Bucs defense was so good, Johnson doesn't get much recognition for what he and the offense did that season.

Not a myth at all. Look at his whole career versus one season Sal. Plus 3,000 yards isnt much gunslinging. It's actually pretty typical of QB's to throw for more.. Furthermore, if he was throwing around 30 times per game, and he only put up 3,000 yards, thats called Kelly Holcomb.

[Coach Sal]

Not a myth at all. Look at his whole career versus one season Sal. Plus 3,000 yards isnt much gunslinging. It's actually pretty typical of QB's to throw for more.. Furthermore, if he was throwing around 30 times per game, and he only put up 3,000 yards, thats called Kelly Holcomb.

OK. That's fair enough. Lots of throws, but not much risk involved.

So let's put things in perspective as it pertains to JP.

The last two games he's thrown 15 and 13 passes, respectively. That means they're making him even less than a caretaker, they're making him a non-factor. And if they're going to keep intentionally making him a non-factor, why even play him?

Understand, I'm not advocating getting rid of him or even sitting him right now. Quite the opposite. I want to see him have more responsibility and actually be a part of the game plan. Because once that happens, we can get a much better guage of where he is and what he is able to do - and ultimately, if he is the one to move forward with.

It's ok to ask your QB to "not lose the game." It's been done. As long as it's not done all the time. Eventually, he has to be asked to make some plays.

But when you are actually scared of your QB hurting your own team and play it that way, it's a lost cause. Right now, they're playing like they're scared of JP.

[GFLuNEEDit]

Why do you not trust JP if he's the one that the coaches picked as the starter???

Why have him out there if you dont have enough confidence in him to win games?

Why, if you want to see what he can do, only attempt 13 passes?

A QB in the NFL...has to sometimes WIN a game for the team...a QB is the LEADER of the team, and winning games is what a QB is PAID to do...a QB is not paid millions of dollars and drafted by his skill of HANDING OFF THE BALL TO A RUNNING BACK EVERY PLAY!

If the Bills are playing to win...then either use JP as part of that, see if he can win...and if JP CAN'T do it, then PULL HIM.

Caretaker QB's DO NOT WIN SUPERBOWLS!

Of course he is right.

Jauron, is doing his best to save face.

He made the decision to go with Losman and painted himself into a corner when he stated publicly that he would stay with Losman as the starter.

He is digging himself a deeper hole by the day by claiming that he sees steady progress and that he's confident that Losman will be a very good QB.

He would have been far better off keeping his mouth shut and playing his cards as they were dealt.

In poker terms he should have checked.

But instead he has put himself all-in with Losman and is hoping for a miracle on the river.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this hand plays out..

[gr8slayer]

Not a myth at all. Look at his whole career versus one season Sal. Plus 3,000 yards isnt much gunslinging. It's actually pretty typical of QB's to throw for more.. Furthermore, if he was throwing around 30 times per game, and he only put up 3,000 yards, thats called Kelly Holcomb.
Bledsoe had is one of the best QB's all time when it comes to yardage, where did it get him? Its all about points, not yards.

[TigerJ]

I agree with Coach Sal in that I don't want a caretaker QB. I don't put the Indianapolis game in that category of Losman playing a caretaker role however. If you go back and look at every Indianapolis game this season, you will find that the teams that cam closest to winning attempted the fewest passes. Buffalo was a little more extreme in reducing the number of passing attempts than Tennessee, and Denver, but I can see Steve Fairchild thinking that if it nearly worked for Tennessee and Denver (they lost by one and three respectively) maybe we should just try and push the envelope a bit more, especially since Buffalo's offensive line performance has been so pitiful.

Houston is a different case, and I do hope Buffalo opens it up a little more, though given Buffalo's line, it will still need to consist of a lot of three step drops, quick slants and timing routes.

[PECKERWOOD]

OK. That's fair enough. Lots of throws, but not much risk involved.

So let's put things in perspective as it pertains to JP.

The last two games he's thrown 15 and 13 passes, respectively. That means they're making him even less than a caretaker, they're making him a non-factor. And if they're going to keep intentionally making him a non-factor, why even play him?

Understand, I'm not advocating getting rid of him or even sitting him right now. Quite the opposite. I want to see him have more responsibility and actually be a part of the game plan. Because once that happens, we can get a much better guage of where he is and what he is able to do - and ultimately, if he is the one to move forward with.

It's ok to ask your QB to "not lose the game." It's been done. As long as it's not done all the time. Eventually, he has to be asked to make some plays.

But when you are actually scared of your QB hurting your own team and play it that way, it's a lost cause. Right now, they're playing like they're scared of JP.



The last two games he's thrown 15 and 13 passes, respectively. That means they're making him even less than a caretaker, they're making him a non-factor. And if they're going to keep intentionally making him a non-factor, why even play him?


There at different stages of their respective careers. Not to mention, Johnson had a decent line in TB (not great, but it wasnt bad..). That is the main reason why Losman has very little attempts. Jauron said that was the game plan himself. It would be the same game plan if Holcomb or Nall were behind the center. Its simple, if you dont have protection your QB will make more mistakes than desirable.



It's ok to ask your QB to "not lose the game." It's been done. As long as it's not done all the time. Eventually, he has to be asked to make some plays.

But when you are actually scared of your QB hurting your own team and play it that way, it's a lost cause. Right now, they're playing like they're scared of JP.

Once again. One of the reasons JP hasnt passed much against GB or Indianapolis is because both teams have very adept pass rushing DE's. Now you tell me Sal, would you want your struggling OL with a rookie RT, and a LT who is in his first year at the position, to have to pass protect 30 times a game? Thought not..

Think KGB, Kampman, Mathis and Freeney..

[PECKERWOOD]

In the end, they are not scared of Losman. It's the OL there scared of. I will admit, I'm a little scared of it too. ;)

[SABURZFAN]

Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are probowl QB's.


look out!!!!!!the Licker may mistake you for comparing them to Just Pathetic. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

Brad Johnson is a far better QB then Losman.

And Losman will never win a superbowl unless he is on the bench as a backup.



ala rob johnson.....



nuf said.