One possible concern for the offseason

[X-Era]

We all are still watching the games and enjoying them, but our chances for the playoffs are not dead but on life support. I think most feel this is a rebuilding/building season and that we are in evaluation mode but trying to win every game still.

One concern I have for the offseason is a follow on to the cut down day. We kept all of our rookies. Now we are starting most of them. Thats fine, I love that they are getting the play time. But, it worrys me that we will think we should give ____ a chance to develop rather than making big improvements.

Terrance Pennington comes to mind. Yes we drafted him, yes Jauron likes him. But theres no arguement that a guy like Max Starks for example makes us better as a club.

My concern is that we arent willing to make drastic improvements because we like our rookies. I thought it was interesting how we kept all of them, many here argued that some players we cut were better. I hope that doesnt show some hard headedness about drafting some guy and then not being willing to upgrade them.

I think we all feel OL is still a concern. Gandy is a UFA and likely gone. Peters is a stud OT, and quickly becoming a very good LT. Folwer is marginal, Villarial is likely gone, and Pennington is a rookie. Does a game like yesterday convince Jauron that he has all he needs? I think its highly unlikely that we spend a 1st rounder on OL. Usually you take a LT, we dont need one now, and G, C, and even RT can be had later.

FA can make a huge change in our o-line. Starks and Steinbach make us a very very good o-line, NOT a marginal one that can have a good game once in a while. Its not that Im trashing our prospects but how far does that go? If we can make a huge improvement why not do it? Get guys on the right side of 30 but that have proven that they are very good players.

Im just looking at OL here, but it applys to all positions. I would argue we should not replace Pennington with someone elses backup RT 1st year type, but if we can get a proven RT thats a good player, do it.

LB will be interesting, is Jauron going to think that Ellison is all we need if Fletch leaves? Fletch is 2nd in the league in tackles right now.

CB is another Youbouty hasnt played a down, if Clements leaves we are likely to be thinking CB first and foremost.

I just worry that the approach we took on cut day with keeping our drafted players may preclude us from making big changes. I hope thats not the case.

I still think we should be thinking:

1st round: DE, CB (based on Clements), LB (based on Fletch), WR (we need more playmakers), maybe even RB (is McGahees attitude against the grain?)

2nd round: OL and DT come into the picture looking mainly at faster run stuffers and C, G, RT

Just what I see.

[YardRat]

You're kidding, right?

[X-Era]

You're kidding, right?

About what.

[YardRat]

I just worry that the approach we took on cut day with keeping our drafted players may preclude us from making big changes. I hope thats not the case.


Worrying that a team approach of developing their young players already on the team would cause them not to go after a better player at a particular position.

That wasn't a joke?

[Mudflap1]

Good points jp-era. I think Marv is a smart guy. Right now our o-line has had exactly one halfway decent game (not great game) in a row against a 3-7 Texans team. It's no secret that offensive line is probably the weakest link. If Ralph is willing to pony up the cash, I think we bring in the best o-linemen we can get, and try to re-sign Clements, as well as Fletcher. Those moves alone, with possibly the addition of a pass rushing defensive end, will make this team dramatically improved. I'm assuming Losman either holds serve the rest of the season, or at least doesn't start to regress.

Jon

[X-Era]

Worrying that a team approach of developing their young players already on the team would cause them not to go after a better player at a particular position.

That wasn't a joke?

How many times did we hear we think alot of ____ in the past decade? Lawrence Smith, Chris Watson, Mike Williams, Brandon Spoon, Erik Flowers

This isnt a attack on our drafting, its a question on how we approach FA. Our previous clowny regime seemed to go the cheapo route and rely too heavily on the draft, it cost us. We MUST spend some money to improve this team, it cant be built solely through the draft.

Its not a joke. After suffering through years of the TD regime, hearing Jauron say he likes his rookies thats why he drafted them, scares me into thinking he could convince himself that serious upgrades arent worth it. They are

[X-Era]

Good points jp-era. I think Marv is a smart guy. Right now our o-line has had exactly one halfway decent game (not great game) in a row against a 3-7 Texans team. It's no secret that offensive line is probably the weakest link. If Ralph is willing to pony up the cash, I think we bring in the best o-linemen we can get, and try to re-sign Clements, as well as Fletcher. Those moves alone, with possibly the addition of a pass rushing defensive end, will make this team dramatically improved. I'm assuming Losman either holds serve the rest of the season, or at least doesn't start to regress.

Jon

I guess it comes down to whether we have the nards to make drastic improvements or not. Keeping Fletch and Clements would be great IMO, but it also isnt improving. We stay status quo. Id like to see us also make big improvements on the lines. Id like a bigtime pass rusher in the draft or Freeney (never happen), and a guy like Steinbach and/or Starks. THATS a big improvement and we can reap the rewards almost immediately instead of a wait and see approach with draftees.

[Mudflap1]

Well, it's not only serious upgrades, but we don't want serious downgrades either where we let a good player go because we think his young replacement is going to step right in (ie Fletcher or Clements, like what happened with Pat Williams, Moulds, etc.).

Jon

[Mudflap1]

I guess it comes down to whether we have the nards to make drastic improvements or not. Keeping Fletch and Clements would be great IMO, but it also isnt improving. We stay status quo. Id like to see us also make big improvements on the lines. Id like a bigtime pass rusher in the draft or Freeney (never happen), and a guy like Steinbach and/or Starks. THATS a big improvement and we can reap the rewards almost immediately instead of a wait and see approach with draftees.

I agree!

Jon

[YardRat]

How many times did we hear we think alot of ____ in the past decade? Lawrence Smith, Chris Watson, Mike Williams, Brandon Spoon, Erik Flowers

This isnt a attack on our drafting, its a question on how we approach FA. Our previous clowny regime seemed to go the cheapo route and rely too heavily on the draft, it cost us. We MUST spend some money to improve this team, it cant be built solely through the draft.

Its not a joke. After suffering through years of the TD regime, hearing Jauron say he likes his rookies thats why he drafted them, scares me into thinking he could convince himself that serious upgrades arent worth it. They are

Okay, I'll come right out and say it....

If the current regime didn't take the very approach you are now afraid of, JP Losman wouldn't be the QB of the team right now. Drew Brees or Daunte Culpepper would. Or Steve McNair.

Don't the other young players the coaches may apparently have confidence in developing into starters deserve the same opportunity that was given JP?

[X-Era]

Well, it's not only serious upgrades, but we don't want serious downgrades either where we let a good player go because we think his young replacement is going to step right in (ie Fletcher or Clements, like what happened with Pat Williams, Moulds, etc.).

Jon

ABSOLUTELY! I want to keep Fletch and Clements trust me.

[X-Era]

Okay, I'll come right out and say it....

If the current regime didn't take the very approach you are now afraid of, JP Losman wouldn't be the QB of the team right now. Drew Brees or Daunte Culpepper would. Or Steve McNair.

Don't the other young players the coaches may apparently have confidence in developing into starters deserve the same opportunity that was given JP?

Yes, they do. But, you have to admit that the learning curves are different at different positions usually. JP was a 1st rounder, Pennington was a 7th rounder. Theres plenty of 7th rounders that start and play well on the OL. But havent we all agreed that the OL is an issue?

BTW, I would have had NO problem with bringing in Drew Brees. I was undecided on Culpepper, but I have always liked Brees. Hes a proven player and JP was not and is not yet. I have been clear, its not that I think JP is god. I simply think it takes a long time to develop a good QB usually. If we had traded for or signed a guy like Brees, fine. But we didnt. I was only against singing some guy like the next Kelly Holcomb and assuming thats all we need. I wanted to try to develop one if we werent going to make a big move for a really good one. I remain convinced that the talent level isnt good enough and that another teams backup will fail here.

Its a tough issue, I agree. Do we skip a guy like Corey Simon (if healthy) because we have McCargo and Williams? Simon is a previous pro-bowler and plays in a cover 2, next to Tripplett even. Hes a perfect fit and a proven talent. I dont see how a 4 and 6 team can pass that up. Do we skip Freeney because we have Kelsay and Denney and "think alot of them"? They both have had much better years this year but neither is Freeney either (even though his sacks are way down).

If we mean business, we act business like. If we see too many sacks given up, you bolster the line. If you see sacks (D) are way down or we are giving up rushing yards, you bolster the D line.

Again, who, specifically would you protect from upgrading?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Snag Steinbach or Manuwai and draft Samson Setele. The guard position is fixed. Pennington had a nice day yesterday, so we'll see if he improves.

Evans has officially broken out, but our other WR's are inconsistent. Reed has flashed the ability to get open on 3rd down for JP and I think if he had been playing Sunday, we would have coverted a couple more. Parrish just doesn't make a very good target in the middle and won't win the physical battles very often. Price came up with the big catch, and has been open, but he's not that bigger, physical posession receiver that this team needs. If JP can find him open more often, things could really open up all over the field.

TE is a bigger priority than WR. Enough said. Daniel Graham and Eric Johnson are UFA's.

The offense is not capable of sustaining drives and definately needs these upgrades at OL, TE, and of course, we are keeping an eye on JP.

Fletcher is a must sign. He's just too important to this defense and the locker room. He's getting older, but he has proven once again this year that he is one of the best.

Clements might be too expensive, and if he doesn't return we have to find a replacement. Greer, Thomas, and Youboty are nickel corners, not starters, although the jury is still out on Youboty. McGee is good, but is not that great one-on-one against some of the better receivers in the league. If we let our play at CB slip, then the D-line has to be much better rushing the pass.

Upgrade the D-line!

[Mahdi]

We all are still watching the games and enjoying them, but our chances for the playoffs are not dead but on life support. I think most feel this is a rebuilding/building season and that we are in evaluation mode but trying to win every game still.

One concern I have for the offseason is a follow on to the cut down day. We kept all of our rookies. Now we are starting most of them. Thats fine, I love that they are getting the play time. But, it worrys me that we will think we should give ____ a chance to develop rather than making big improvements.

Terrance Pennington comes to mind. Yes we drafted him, yes Jauron likes him. But theres no arguement that a guy like Max Starks for example makes us better as a club.

My concern is that we arent willing to make drastic improvements because we like our rookies. I thought it was interesting how we kept all of them, many here argued that some players we cut were better. I hope that doesnt show some hard headedness about drafting some guy and then not being willing to upgrade them.

I think we all feel OL is still a concern. Gandy is a UFA and likely gone. Peters is a stud OT, and quickly becoming a very good LT. Folwer is marginal, Villarial is likely gone, and Pennington is a rookie. Does a game like yesterday convince Jauron that he has all he needs? I think its highly unlikely that we spend a 1st rounder on OL. Usually you take a LT, we dont need one now, and G, C, and even RT can be had later.

FA can make a huge change in our o-line. Starks and Steinbach make us a very very good o-line, NOT a marginal one that can have a good game once in a while. Its not that Im trashing our prospects but how far does that go? If we can make a huge improvement why not do it? Get guys on the right side of 30 but that have proven that they are very good players.

Im just looking at OL here, but it applys to all positions. I would argue we should not replace Pennington with someone elses backup RT 1st year type, but if we can get a proven RT thats a good player, do it.

LB will be interesting, is Jauron going to think that Ellison is all we need if Fletch leaves? Fletch is 2nd in the league in tackles right now.

CB is another Youbouty hasnt played a down, if Clements leaves we are likely to be thinking CB first and foremost.

I just worry that the approach we took on cut day with keeping our drafted players may preclude us from making big changes. I hope thats not the case.

I still think we should be thinking:

1st round: DE, CB (based on Clements), LB (based on Fletch), WR (we need more playmakers), maybe even RB (is McGahees attitude against the grain?)

2nd round: OL and DT come into the picture looking mainly at faster run stuffers and C, G, RT

Just what I see.
Interestingly enough we selected Tim Anderson one pick ahead of Pittsburgh in the 2004 draft, and they selected Max Starks.

[Saratoga Slim]

Interestingly enough we selected Tim Anderson one pick ahead of Pittsburgh in the 2004 draft, and they selected Max Starks.

At the time, Anderson seemed like a pretty good selection.

[Mahdi]

At the time, Anderson seemed like a pretty good selection.
Yeahhh. I guess so.