Want stats?

[Bling]

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Jon Kitna
Carson Palmer
Brett Favre
Philip Rivers
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Eli Manning
Jake Delhomme
Brad Johnson
Charlie Frye
Steve McNair
David Carr
Chad Pennigton
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Jake Plummer
Michael Vick

are the only QB's that have started all their team's 10 game this year. 21. JP ranks 18th in passing and 18th in TD.


There is 1 QB with more passing yards with less starts (Ben Roethlisbeger 1 less start, 477 more than JP), and 3 QB's within 400 yards with less starts (Damon Huard 2 less starts, Mark Brunell 1 less start, Joey Harrington 4 less starts).


Tony Romo, with 6 less starts, is 2 TD's behind and 488 passing yards behind.




Stats can be very easy to manipulate. I'm just telling you the stats that are real. Not QBs vs. the Texans Defense where there are huge variables.

[camelcowboy]

Joey Harrington as the dolphin's qb still makes me laugh everytime i hear it.

[Gunzlingr]

JP is 100% in completion percentage when it comes down to TD passes!

[justasportsfan]

Stats can be very easy to manipulate. .Agreed.

Do we have stats for the no. of times a qb was made to play caretaker and another saying how many times they are not allowed to audible?

[Wraith]

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Jon Kitna
Carson Palmer
Brett Favre
Philip Rivers
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Eli Manning
Jake Delhomme
Brad Johnson
Charlie Frye
Steve McNair
David Carr
Chad Pennigton
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Jake Plummer
Michael Vick

are the only QB's that have started all their team's 10 game this year. 21. JP ranks 18th in passing and 18th in TD.


There is 1 QB with more passing yards with less starts (Ben Roethlisbeger 1 less start, 477 more than JP), and 3 QB's within 400 yards with less starts (Damon Huard 2 less starts, Mark Brunell 1 less start, Joey Harrington 4 less starts).


Tony Romo, with 6 less starts, is 2 TD's behind and 488 passing yards behind.




Stats can be very easy to manipulate. I'm just telling you the stats that are real. Not QBs vs. the Texans Defense where there are huge variables.

Nice try....

Every single QB on that list has more attempts than Losman. Losman has 262 passing attempts. The lowest attempts total of anyone higher on that list than him is David Carr at 285. Chad Pennington is the only other QB on your list with fewer than 300 attempts. Even Roethlisberger, with one fewer start, has thrown the ball 44 more times than Losman.

Now if we want to take a look at yards per attempt, which factors in how many times they throw the ball, you will see that Losman is 13th in the league, better than QBs such as Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, and Steve McNair.

Reading Material
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=ypa&league=nfl&season=2&year=2006)
Losman is also 16th in the league (out of 34 QBs who qualify) in TD rate, which takes into account how many passing attempts the QB has had.

You're right, statistics can be manipulated. You're doing it right now.

[OpIv37]

and how many of those guys play behind OL's as bad as ours? How many only have 18 starts and only 10 in a new system? How many have receivers better than ours? How many played the schedule we did (NE twice, Chicago and Indy on the road, etc)?

having the same number of starts this season does not mean two QB's should be equal. You're oversimplifying, Bling.

[Statman]

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Jon Kitna
Carson Palmer
Brett Favre
Philip Rivers
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Eli Manning
Jake Delhomme
Brad Johnson
Charlie Frye
Steve McNair
David Carr
Chad Pennigton
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Jake Plummer
Michael Vick

are the only QB's that have started all their team's 10 game this year. 21. JP ranks 18th in passing and 18th in TD.


There is 1 QB with more passing yards with less starts (Ben Roethlisbeger 1 less start, 477 more than JP), and 3 QB's within 400 yards with less starts (Damon Huard 2 less starts, Mark Brunell 1 less start, Joey Harrington 4 less starts).


Tony Romo, with 6 less starts, is 2 TD's behind and 488 passing yards behind.




Stats can be very easy to manipulate. I'm just telling you the stats that are real. Not QBs vs. the Texans Defense where there are huge variables.
How do you think JP would be on Dallas with their running game and line and D?

[Bling]

Nice try....

Every single QB on that list has more attempts than Losman. Losman has 262 passing attempts. The lowest attempts total of anyone higher on that list than him is David Carr at 285. Chad Pennington is the only other QB on your list with fewer than 300 attempts. Even Roethlisberger, with one fewer start, has thrown the ball 44 more times than Losman.

That's where we go our separate ways. I believe the reason why he has less attempts is because the Bills' coaching staff doesn't trust Losman.


Now if we want to take a look at yards per attempt, which factors in how many times they throw the ball, you will see that Losman is 13th in the league, better than QBs such as Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, and Steve McNair.

I can spin it too. If they don't think you're going to pass, it's easier to get yards, no?


You're right, statistics can be manipulated. You're doing it right now.

Look who's talking.



FACT: Bills don't like to pass. Why? Because they don't trust Losman, or because they think running is the best way to win? You decide.

[camelcowboy]

Losman was told they were going to open up the play book, he responded with a big day. Maybe the bills should let the kid play, i don't know the number of total starts he has but, its probally less then most of the qbs on the list.

[BillsNick]

:lolpoint: Bling

[justasportsfan]

How do you think JP would be on Dallas with their running game and line and D?
I just know Drew would commit suicide if that happened.

[Bling]

and how many of those guys play behind OL's as bad as ours? How many only have 18 starts and only 10 in a new system? How many have receivers better than ours? How many played the schedule we did (NE twice, Chicago and Indy on the road, etc)?

having the same number of starts this season does not mean two QB's should be equal. You're oversimplifying, Bling.

Easy. Miami, Dallas, New Orleans, Detriot, San Fran, Houston, Cleveland all boast pretty bad O-Lines. But that's oversimplifying too.


Which is why I get to back to it. Do the Bills trust Losman? Is he proving anything against worthy opponents? Are you pulling any upsets? Is he making stupid mistakes still? Is he showing signs of life? Is he crippled by the Bills system?

[justasportsfan]

FACT: Bills don't like to pass. Why? Because they don't trust Losman, or because they think running is the best way to win? You decide. Where'd you pull those facts from?

[Wraith]

That's where we go our separate ways. I believe the reason why he has less attempts is because the Bills' coaching staff doesn't trust Losman.



I can spin it too. If they don't think you're going to pass, it's easier to get yards, no?



Look who's talking.



FACT: Bills don't like to pass. Why? Because they don't trust Losman, or because they think running is the best way to win? You decide.


It's not spin, it's called normalizing the data, and it is what you do when you are comparing count data from unequal sample sizes.

[OpIv37]

Easy. Miami, Dallas, New Orleans, Detriot, San Fran, Houston, Cleveland all boast pretty bad O-Lines. But that's oversimplifying too.


Which is why I get to back to it. Do the Bills trust Losman? Is he proving anything against worthy opponents? Are you pulling any upsets? Is he making stupid mistakes still? Is he showing signs of life? Is he crippled by the Bills system?

look, no one here is trying to deny that Losman has struggled. But you're trying to say that he's bad based on an incomplete and invalid comparison.

The only real way to judge him at this point is to look at his own personal improvement- is he learning from mistakes and doing certain things better now than he was at the beginning of this season? Comparing stats to other QB's in completely different situations is not going to tell us what we want to know about Losman- he needs to be judged on his own improvement and whether or not he's helping the team win. Hell, Drew Bledsoe had amazing numbers in 2002 and all it got us was 8-8.

Personally, I'm not entirely satisfied with Losman's progress over the course of the season so far, but he definitely showed signs of life on Sunday. So I'm going to evaluate him on his individual performance and not by comparing him to players he can't control on teams he can't control.

[PECKERWOOD]

Easy. Miami, Dallas, New Orleans, Detriot, San Fran, Houston, Cleveland all boast pretty bad O-Lines. But that's oversimplifying too.


Which is why I get to back to it. Do the Bills trust Losman? Is he proving anything against worthy opponents? Are you pulling any upsets? Is he making stupid mistakes still? Is he showing signs of life? Is he crippled by the Bills system?

I think that San Fran and New Orleans have pretty good OL's actually. Gore obviously has holes to hit, and Deuce does too. Oh here is another stat for you. Out of all the teams you listed with a bad OL, how many of them have feature RB's? Ronnie Brown, Julius Jones & Barber, Deuce & Reggie, Kevin Jones, Frank Gore, Droughns and Houston really has nobody to be honest. But still 6/7 of these teams have a great run game, and that is something our young QB doesn't have to lean on. Although the coaches stick with the run anyways, you could blame our inability to run the football, one of our weakest attributes on offense. Take a look at how many times McGahee & A-Train have touched the ball, and then look at how many TD's they got. Willis has 1 maybe 2? A-Train has the same. I don't care to look it up, because I know I am pretty damn close.

[SquishDaFish]

Bling worry about your team and your crappy Injured QBs

[3rdn1]

Bla bla bla bla . Should he stay or should he go. is inproved or took steps back words. my answer to both is yes he should stay and yes he has inproved and took steps backwards. why well because we have little to no running game speratic protection up front(check running game) a new def. system.

Look at Big Ben. Last year they won the ring on sound DEF RUNNING THE BALL. AND BEN HAVEING TIME TO THROW THE BALL. this year thier D is off LITTLE THE RUNNING GAME OFF AND BEN IS SCHEDULED FOR SOMETHING TO HAAPPEN SOON. so i guess that all this means that they should dump big ben.

the giants line sucks do injury and little manning strugels and the fact his numbers are worse that jps. so let bench him too. OH YA his short game and machanices suck. But this cant be he is a manning ,Paytons little bro. so we'll let him develope.and name him mmmmmmmmm..... god.


then theres rivers. ya... have you seen the line infornt of him, the DEF. and oh ya the running game, whats his name............ oh LT fastest to 100 td ever.

[Philagape]

You can tell the stupid posts by which ones think yardage determines how good QBs are.

[Bling]

You can tell the stupid posts by which ones think yardage determines how good QBs are.

That's funny. Who would you say the top 5 QB's of the league are?

Mine are
1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Drew Brees
5. Carson Palmer


All seem to do pretty well in passing... while the losers (Plummer, Vick, Brunell) all seem to be at the bottom...

[Devin]

New Orleans OL is actually playing exceptionally well, Brees is one of the least sacked QB's in football I believe.

[Philagape]

That's funny. Who would you say the top 5 QB's of the league are?

Mine are
1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Drew Brees
5. Carson Palmer


All seem to do pretty well in passing... while the losers (Plummer, Vick, Brunell) all seem to be at the bottom...

Brees threw for 510 yards Sunday, and he also threw three picks and lost. Which is more important? :insane:

When passing yards replaces points scored as determining the winner of games, then you have a point.

How many Super Bowl rings did Marino get for all his yards? :snicker: Fouts? Tarkenton?

[Bling]

Brees threw for 510 yards Sunday, and he also threw three picks and lost. Which is more important? :insane:

When passing yards replaces points scored as determining the winner of games, then you have a point.

How many Super Bowl rings did Marino get for all his yards? :snicker: Fouts? Tarkenton?

510 passing yards.

But hey, he still only has 10 INTs. I'd still take him over 90% of QB's in this league.

[Philagape]

510 passing yards.

But hey, he still only has 10 INTs. I'd still take him over 90% of QB's in this league.

You don't put "only" in front of 10 INTs. ONLY seven QBs have more.

But you illustrated my point anyway: Efficiency and low turnovers are more important than yardage.

[Bling]

You don't put "only" in front of 10 INTs. ONLY seven QBs have more.

But you illustrated my point anyway: Efficiency and low turnovers are more important than yardage.

I'd take yards over turnovers personally. I don't mind 2 INTs if he's putting up 400 yards passing and 2 TD's. 3 INTs is excessie though, you're right. Teams that worry about turnovers shouldn't be winning anyway. Aggressive football wins you games. JMO.

[SABURZFAN]

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Jon Kitna
Carson Palmer
Brett Favre
Philip Rivers
Tom Brady
Rex Grossman
Eli Manning
Jake Delhomme
Brad Johnson
Charlie Frye
Steve McNair
David Carr
Chad Pennigton
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Jake Plummer
Michael Vick

are the only QB's that have started all their team's 10 game this year. 21. JP ranks 18th in passing and 18th in TD.


There is 1 QB with more passing yards with less starts (Ben Roethlisbeger 1 less start, 477 more than JP), and 3 QB's within 400 yards with less starts (Damon Huard 2 less starts, Mark Brunell 1 less start, Joey Harrington 4 less starts).


Tony Romo, with 6 less starts, is 2 TD's behind and 488 passing yards behind.




Stats can be very easy to manipulate. I'm just telling you the stats that are real. Not QBs vs. the Texans Defense where there are huge variables.


our great QB will be better than those guys at the end of the season. :up:

[PECKERWOOD]

I'd take yards over turnovers personally. I don't mind 2 INTs if he's putting up 400 yards passing and 2 TD's. 3 INTs is excessie though, you're right. Teams that worry about turnovers shouldn't be winning anyway. Aggressive football wins you games. JMO.

I stopped reading when you said you would take yards over turnovers. Turnovers is what costs teams games.

[Bling]

I stopped reading when you said you would take yards over turnovers. Turnovers is what costs teams games.

I stopped reading when I saw who posted this...

[Philagape]

I stopped reading when you said you would take yards over turnovers. Turnovers is what costs teams games.

Typical of Miami fans. Marino had all those yards ... for nothing.

[Wraith]

I'd take yards over turnovers personally. I don't mind 2 INTs if he's putting up 400 yards passing and 2 TD's. 3 INTs is excessie though, you're right. Teams that worry about turnovers shouldn't be winning anyway. Aggressive football wins you games. JMO.

I can't believe you can refer to Drew Brees' performance last sunday and still say you'd take yardage over turnovers. It's moronic.

He threw for 510 yards, and his team lost.

He threw for 510 yards, and his team only scored 16 points.

Two of his interceptions were in the end zone after lengthy drives. You must've thought Losman had a hell of a game against the Jets earlier this year, too, apparently. Good thing Joey Harrington threw for 414 yards against Green Bay earlier this year. It doesn't matter that he threw 3 interceptions, that it took him 62 attempts to get those yards, or that they lost by 10. He got those yards, after all.

I repeat, he threw for 510 yards, and his team lost.

[Bling]

I can't believe you can refer to Drew Brees' performance last sunday and still say you'd take yardage over turnovers. It's moronic.

He threw for 510 yards, and his team lost.

He threw for 510 yards, and his team only scored 16 points.

Two of his interceptions were in the end zone after lengthy drives. You must've thought Losman had a hell of a game agains the Jets earlier this year, too, apparently.

I repeat, he threw for 510 yards, and his team lost.

Read it again. Anything past 2 INTs is losing the game, but anything less than 150 yards passing is begging the other team to win. I will always take a team that is aggressive with the football over a team that is conservative.

Look @ Palmer. He threw for 275 yards, and 1 INT. Sounds to me like his team won.


Give me a QB that's put up 4 games with less than 115 yards passing, and I'll tell you that's a losing team. Give me a QB that's put up 300+ yards with 2 INTs, and I'll tell you they always have a better chance at winning than a team with a QB that can throw less yards in a game than Manning can in a quarter.

[Bling]

Typical of Miami fans. Marino had all those yards ... for nothing.

If you're telling me you wouldn't take Marino over Losman right now... well...

[BillsNick]

Your Posts are stoopid A-holes.

[ublinkwescore]

JP is 100% in completion percentage when it comes down to TD passes!

So if we just get within range for JP to land a ball in the endzone, we'll be UNSTOPPABLE!!!

[ublinkwescore]

Easy. Miami, Dallas, New Orleans, Detriot, San Fran, Houston, Cleveland all boast pretty bad O-Lines. But that's oversimplifying too.


Which is why I get to back to it. Do the Bills trust Losman? Is he proving anything against worthy opponents? Are you pulling any upsets? Is he making stupid mistakes still? Is he showing signs of life? Is he crippled by the Bills system?

New Orleans has a bad Oline?

that's news to me - they're definitely an improvement over ours.

[TigerJ]

There's no need to speculate about the Bills' coaching staff's attitude toward Losman. They have essentially told us. He's a young QB. They are bringing him along, teaching him what they feel he needs to learn. They knew at the begining of the season that he wasn't capable of executing a game plan that incorporated the entire playbook. Jauron told us that last Sunday they would start opening up and letting JP do more, including passing more and passing downfield, rolling out and running some when it's a better option. What do you know, that's exactly what JP did. I said elsewhere that I think the coaching staff figured that since Losman went to a smaller college football program with an unsophisticated and undisciplined offensive system that it would be better to start teaching Losman from scratch how to be an NFL QB. They ran a game plan unbalance toward the run, instructed JP not to audible, and kept him in the pocket. I figure that as they get convinced he's becoming more comfortable with the basics, they will let him add to his game repertoire. Thus, it's not about a distrust of JP ever being a solid NFL QB. It is about distrusting his preparation to be a solid NFL starter. There is a profound difference. If it were the former, there is no reason to keep starting him. They might as well start Nall and see what he can do. If it is the latter, then they are using exactly the right approach.

[Philagape]

If you're telling me you wouldn't take Marino over Losman right now... well...

No, just using him to show that yards mean little.

[jamze132]

Easy. Miami, Dallas, New Orleans, Detriot, San Fran, Houston, Cleveland all boast pretty bad O-Lines. But that's oversimplifying too.


Which is why I get to back to it. Do the Bills trust Losman? Is he proving anything against worthy opponents? Are you pulling any upsets? Is he making stupid mistakes still? Is he showing signs of life? Is he crippled by the Bills system?
So what exactly is your main purpose for being in the BillsZone website? Are you just trying to cause trouble? Or are you actually intersted in BILLS football. It seems like a lot of what you say is a slam to the Bills.