Blackout rules should be subject to league average not sell outs!!!

[bigbub2352]

I think that the league should do some research and figure out the attendance average of the 32 teams in the NFL and go by that standard, i know that people say if the games dont get blacked out then people will stay home,

but i think it is more about the product on the feild and the fact that Ralph Wilson stadium even after being downsized 7-8 years ago still holds almost 73,000 down from 80,000 and when a game doesnt sell out we usually miss by 3-5,000 tickets, well that is still around 70,000 people at the game and that is still 10,000 more people then all the dome stadiums and alot of others,

If they went with a league average of say 65,000 tickets sold and black out is lifted this would give the Bills and other so called small market teams a chance to be veiwed as far as Syracuse and up into Canada and down in PENN.

Did u know that we seat like 10,000 more than Dallas no wonder these teams never have to worry about sellin out Population is way higher there and stadium is alot less capacity, something needs to be done about this rule there are plenty of people who cant afford to go to a game but would glady buy NFL merchandise and go support there local bars/restraunts to go watch the game every week it is a win win and way you loof at it, Plus if the Bills put a more consistent wininning product on the feild u dont have to worry about it ala Sabres

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lets just sell the freaking game out.

[OpIv37]

yeah, the standard is definitely skewed.

Indy sells 55,000 tickets, their game is on TV. We sell 70,000 tickets, and the game still gets blacked out. It's total BS, especially since the NFL makes infinitely more money off of TV revenues than they do off of gate receipts and concessions at the stadiums.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It is a dated rule but it is the rule so what can we do.

[Dr. Lecter]

I can't agree.

Like it or not, the NFL is a business. They are not a service. There are plenty of people that live in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Toronto, Jamestown, Erie, etc. They still need to sell the game out to maximize the income from the game.

As Thurm said, just sell the damn game out. People complain the product has not been good. It is clearly improving now. JP is coming around. And the games have been damn exciting.

Fans need to support the team so when a new owner come sin, it will not be so easy to move the team to San Antonio, Protland, LA, etc.

[OpIv37]

To be honest, I'm surpised the game didn't sell out just because of LT. No one wants to see the home team lose, but it's not often that you get the opportunity to see a player of his caliber live.

[G. Host]

Visiting teams get 40% of "gate' revenue so when Dallas sells out a visiting team gets a lot more for visiting than teams which go visiting to Buffalo. Tickets in Indianapolis are also much higher as they are in Chicago.

If they went by minimum capacity of all teams then they would also impose a minimum seat price - no more dirt cheap rockpile sections or any cheap seats at all. I d not think the Bills fans, especially those who fill the seats when opponent does not hav fans across the country, would like that although the scapers would just pass them on to opposing fans who would not blink.

Bills should concentrate group sales on later games rather than earlier games, pull the trick some teams do and make buying tickets to popular games subject to buying other game tickets (Arizona used to do that for Dallas games), add a partial roof on upper tiers so those tickets are more easily sold and ask players to use their sponsorship for kids and such to later games.

This was a very unusual season for Bills with game just before Christmas and Thanksgiving and so many games after Thanksgiving but Bills need to anticipate these slumps and market accordingly.

[bigbub2352]

I beg to differ a little bit i went to the indy game my ticket was 19.00 and it was three row from ceiling in endzone, as i seen it there tickets are around the same price, i just think that if we can sell 65,000-70,000 tickets every week, and we sold out 26-27 games then we miss by 5000 the game should not be blacked out, it is much easier to sell out 55,000 then 73,000 every week, that is quite a difference, i agree NFL is a business, but what about all the paid sponsors runnin commercials, local business that dont see there commercial run that they paid for, it is a bull **** and the NFL just bein extra greedy

[G. Host]

I beg to differ a little bit i went to the indy game my ticket was 19.00 and it was three row from ceiling in endzone, as i seen it there tickets are around the same price, i just think that if we can sell 65,000-70,000 tickets every week, and we sold out 26-27 games then we miss by 5000 the game should not be blacked out, it is much easier to sell out 55,000 then 73,000 every week, that is quite a difference, i agree NFL is a business, but what about all the paid sponsors runnin commercials, local business that dont see there commercial run that they paid for, it is a bull **** and the NFL just bein extra greedy

Yes the Light Purple (Upper level end zones rows 21-30) are $19/seat; you sat in the equivalant of the Rockpile seats for the absolute cheapest fans. The rest of the stadium is $39/seat, $49/seat and more. In total sales a sold out Indy Dome generates more than a sold out Ralph.

Yes it is much easier to sell out 55,000 then 73,000 every week but it is easier to sell them at lower prices too. Reduce those final 5,000 tickets to $5 and then the Bills would sell those but NFL would not agree. Sponsors and local businesses have deals set up such that if a lower viewership occurs then they either get refunds or additional air time - that is how the industry works.

The Bills need to market themselves better.

[Ebenezer]

i have never heard a person with a ticket complain about the rule...people who complain about the rule are the people who don't buy tickets. suck it up.

[OpIv37]

i have never heard a person with a ticket complain about the rule...people who complain about the rule are the people who don't buy tickets. suck it up.

yeah well, speak for yourself.

when I was in HS and college in Rochester/Niagara Falls/Fredonia in the mid-to-late 90's I had to endure numerous blackouts. I didn't have my own car for most of that time so I had no way to get to the games, and probably wouldn't have been able to afford to go on my 20-hr a week Wegmans job anyway.

Not everyone in the blackout range has the means to get to the stadium or pay for a ticket.

[bigbub2352]

i dont think so i got seasons and i go to 2 away games every year, i am speakin for the elderly or people that work on sundays or people with children who cant make it, also the people that cant afford tickets the blackout would and does limit the fan base, plus arent the average ticket price at Ralph like 44-50 dollars, how many rockpile seats are there like 2000, idont know just asking, i also think that an average instead of a sellout for blackout situations is win win for everyone as long as we meet the average, it is not like i am sayin we need to sell 30,000 tickets u r still gettin a large amount of the stadium filled, i just dont like this rule at all and when we average a sell out way m ore than a blackout i dont think when we r short a couple thousand tickets it is profitable for the Bills to black it out doenst make sense to me

[OpIv37]

i dont think so i got seasons and i go to 2 away games every year, i am speakin for the elderly or people that work on sundays or people with children who cant make it, also the people that cant afford tickets the blackout would and does limit the fan base, plus arent the average ticket price at Ralph like 44-50 dollars, how many rockpile seats are there like 2000, idont know just asking, i also think that an average instead of a sellout for blackout situations is win win for everyone as long as we meet the average, it is not like i am sayin we need to sell 30,000 tickets u r still gettin a large amount of the stadium filled, i just dont like this rule at all and when we average a sell out way m ore than a blackout i dont think when we r short a couple thousand tickets it is profitable for the Bills to black it out doenst make sense to me

the man has a point. Last week we were what- 3000 short? You think the profit on those tickets made up for the lost TV ad revenue? No friggin way.

[Ebenezer]

yeah well, speak for yourself.

when I was in HS and college in Rochester/Niagara Falls/Fredonia in the mid-to-late 90's I had to endure numerous blackouts. I didn't have my own car for most of that time so I had no way to get to the games, and probably wouldn't have been able to afford to go on my 20-hr a week Wegmans job anyway.

Not everyone in the blackout range has the means to get to the stadium or pay for a ticket.
I couldn't afford $105 to see U2. Did I complain? You pay for your jollies in this world.

[OpIv37]

I couldn't afford $105 to see U2. Did I complain? You pay for your jollies in this world.

we do pay. We pay by sitting through 45 minutes of commercials every game when our team looks like ****. We pay by buying merch and then wearing it, providing free advertising to the team and the NFL. We pay by supporting this website to drum up interest and support in this team.

Sorry but I just think it's wrong for the NFL to stick it to loyal fans over a few thousand dollars in ticket revenue when they're already making millions on the game between the TV rights, the in-stadium ads, the gate revenue, the concessions, the merch sales, etc.

In the long run, the NFL loses out when they pull **** like this.

[Michael82]

the man has a point. Last week we were what- 3000 short? You think the profit on those tickets made up for the lost TV ad revenue? No friggin way.
Then, where's the local advertisers and sponsors? Why aren't they stepping up and buying the remaining tickets and giving them away so they can still get the the game on TV?

[Ebenezer]

we do pay. We pay by sitting through 45 minutes of commercials every game when our team looks like ****. We pay by buying merch and then wearing it, providing free advertising to the team and the NFL. We pay by supporting this website to drum up interest and support in this team.

Sorry but I just think it's wrong for the NFL to stick it to loyal fans over a few thousand dollars in ticket revenue when they're already making millions on the game between the TV rights, the in-stadium ads, the gate revenue, the concessions, the merch sales, etc.

In the long run, the NFL loses out when they pull **** like this.

you do not pay for commercial time - don't buy those products.
you do not have to buy the merch - I have one golf shirt (my wife bought) and one hat (I got for free)
you support this website by choice - we do not charge

many would say that the real fans are at the game every week - understand that you don't live here and can't make it but it is a product. nobody makes you buy it. do you buy all the other crap associated with all the other crap on TV?

[OpIv37]

you do not pay for commercial time - don't buy those products.
you do not have to buy the merch - I have one golf shirt (my wife bought) and one hat (I got for free)
you support this website by choice - we do not charge

many would say that the real fans are at the game every week - understand that you don't live here and can't make it but it is a product. nobody makes you buy it. do you buy all the other crap associated with all the other crap on TV?

me? hell no

Most of America? Yes.

The point is that most of the NFL's money comes from TV revenue, and that only works when people WATCH the games. If the NFL stopped showing the games on TV, they'd need to sell out 500,000 seat stadiums in every city every week to even come close to making up the money.

And it's not the NFL's problem if no one buys the stuff- the problem belongs to the company that paid for the advertisement. The NFL already has their money.

The league makes money because people watch games on TV. So show the games on TV. End of story.

[Ebenezer]

me? hell no

Most of America? Yes.

The point is that most of the NFL's money comes from TV revenue, and that only works when people WATCH the games. If the NFL stopped showing the games on TV, they'd need to sell out 500,000 seat stadiums in every city every week to even come close to making up the money.

And it's not the NFL's problem if no one buys the stuff- the problem belongs to the company that paid for the advertisement. The NFL already has their money.

The league makes money because people watch games on TV. So show the games on TV. End of story.
no...actually, ask clump. I believe at one time the tv contract just covered the salaries...all the tix sold and the merch was the owners profit (after other business expenses).

[OpIv37]

no...actually, ask clump. I believe at one time the tv contract just covered the salaries...all the tix sold and the merch was the owners profit (after other business expenses).

well the less games they show on TV, the less they can charge for advertising and more of the players' salaries will cut into those other sources of revenue.

The NFL shouldn't have a system where it's in the best interest of the owners to NOT have the games on TV- that's just illogical.

[Dr. Lecter]

Remember that when come to the games they also buy food, beer, parking, etc.

The owners want the games to sell out, and get the TV revenue.

[Ebenezer]

well the less games they show on TV, the less they can charge for advertising and more of the players' salaries will cut into those other sources of revenue.

The NFL shouldn't have a system where it's in the best interest of the owners to NOT have the games on TV- that's just illogical.
as long as TV pays what it pays then it is in the best interest of them to have as many fans in the seats as possible. TV is the one that has to break the NFL monopoly not the fans.

[Typ0]

I can't agree.

Like it or not, the NFL is a business. They are not a service. There are plenty of people that live in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Toronto, Jamestown, Erie, etc. They still need to sell the game out to maximize the income from the game.

As Thurm said, just sell the damn game out. People complain the product has not been good. It is clearly improving now. JP is coming around. And the games have been damn exciting.

Fans need to support the team so when a new owner come sin, it will not be so easy to move the team to San Antonio, Protland, LA, etc.

does a restaurant have the power to say "we won't serve food until all the tables are taken?" Does a movie theater not start the show until all the tickets are sold? No, no where do you see this except the NFL and it's rediculous and clearly stinks of monopoly. When the NFL agreed to congress about the blackout rules I believe they were talking about selling 50K tickets and now the stadiums have changed and so have the rules.

It's not like the Bills own the stadium either. They play in a house that was funded by taxpayers then the NFL says those same people that ALREADY PAID to have the team here are being told they can't even watch the games. Yes EB that was meant for you too! Millions of people have paid to have the bills here not just the ones buying the tickets. It only makes sense someone with a ticket wouldn't care about the blackout. It makes you feel special because you are going to see the game...it helps to rationalize getting raped to go to the stadium and the self serving 'we are the real fans' crap.

[Typ0]

I say the people that buy the tickets, concessions and merchandise, and pay for the pay TV broadcasts are nothing but enablers. They are the "friends" of the alcoholic in need of a liver transplant who show up at his house with a case of beer and bottle of Jack Daniels.

[Ebenezer]

does a restaurant have the power to say "we won't serve food until all the tables are taken?" Does a movie theater not start the show until all the tickets are sold? No, no where do you see this except the NFL and it's rediculous and clearly stinks of monopoly. When the NFL agreed to congress about the blackout rules I believe they were talking about selling 50K tickets and now the stadiums have changed and so have the rules.

It's not like the Bills own the stadium either. They play in a house that was funded by taxpayers then the NFL says those same people that ALREADY PAID to have the team here are being told they can't even watch the games. Yes EB that was meant for you too! Millions of people have paid to have the bills here not just the ones buying the tickets. It only makes sense someone with a ticket wouldn't care about the blackout. It makes you feel special because you are going to see the game...it helps to rationalize getting raped to go to the stadium and the self serving 'we are the real fans' crap.
as does your "I ain't buy a ticket I already pay taxes" rant. :::

[Ebenezer]

I say the people that buy the tickets, concessions and merchandise, and pay for the pay TV broadcasts are nothing but enablers. They are the "friends" of the alcoholic in need of a liver transplant who show up at his house with a case of beer and bottle of Jack Daniels.
you also enable by running this site and discussing it, no?

[Ebenezer]

does a restaurant have the power to say "we won't serve food until all the tables are taken?" Does a movie theater not start the show until all the tickets are sold? No, no where do you see this except the NFL and it's rediculous and clearly stinks of monopoly.


Where is the law stating that the NFL HAS to broadcast the games?? They could very easily stop and just let those who buy a ticket have at. Less money in their pockets but so what.

Bottom line is that the Bills didn't sell out by 5-7,000 tix. I am going to bet that there were that many people who go to bars to see the game illegally or own a box to see the games illegally. Those are the real people to blame in this whole thing. The folks who sit behind us come up from North Carolina for 7 or 8 out of 8 games every year. They were there three days after Thanksgiving. If people really wanted to support the team and not just watch it on TV they would be there. The cheaters, especially, are not real fans, imo. They spend as much money to cheat and see the games as those that go. :peace:

[OpIv37]

Where is the law stating that the NFL HAS to broadcast the games?? They could very easily stop and just let those who buy a ticket have at. Less money in their pockets but so what.

Bottom line is that the Bills didn't sell out by 5-7,000 tix. I am going to bet that there were that many people who go to bars to see the game illegally or own a box to see the games illegally. Those are the real people to blame in this whole thing. The folks who sit behind us come up from North Carolina for 7 or 8 out of 8 games every year. They were there three days after Thanksgiving. If people really wanted to support the team and not just watch it on TV they would be there. The cheaters, especially, are not real fans, imo. They spend as much money to cheat and see the games as those that go. :peace:

So, the people whose taxes pay for the stadium, who sit through the commercials of the games that are broadcast (legally or illegally), who buy merch and watch the games even when the team sucks, etc, are the problem because they want to watch the game?

That's a crock of ****. If it wasn't for those people, there wouldn't be a team or a game. I don't blame people at all for wanting to watch the team that they support and doing what they can to watch it, legal or illegal.

[Ebenezer]

So, the people whose taxes pay for the stadium, who sit through the commercials of the games that are broadcast (legally or illegally), who buy merch and watch the games even when the team sucks, etc, are the problem because they want to watch the game?

That's a crock of ****. If it wasn't for those people, there wouldn't be a team or a game. I don't blame people at all for wanting to watch the team that they support and doing what they can to watch it, legal or illegal.


Everybody wants to watch the game. There was a time when I couldn't afford season tix and was lucky to go to one game a year. I never *****ed about the blackout. You don't like it then SUE the NFL. I never implied that the honest tax payers are the blame. The ones who cheat are. If they didn't cheat I bet those tix and the remainder of the season would be sold. And I am sorry, but there is this Buffalo attitude about getting something for nothing.

[Dr. Lecter]

I say the people that buy the tickets, concessions and merchandise, and pay for the pay TV broadcasts are nothing but enablers. They are the "friends" of the alcoholic in need of a liver transplant who show up at his house with a case of beer and bottle of Jack Daniels.

This just in - We are a free market society and it costs money to run sports teams.

Don't ***** that games aren't on and that we need to buy tix so you can watch it or that government should force the NFL to show games.

Eb and I (and Mikey, Thurm, Phil, Billsology, etc.) choose to support this team with our money. We feel the entertainment from the game and associated festivities (Mikey drinking, Eb and Clump arguing, etc.) are worth it. You don't. That is fine.

But to call us "enablers" is silly.

[Dr. Lecter]

BTW, a restaurant or movie theater COULD impose the sanctions you mention, but they have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[L.A. Playa]

TV contract is supposed to pay player salaries, as EB said ticket sales and Merchandise, etc. are the pool the owners have to pay the rest of their expenses, so in theory if they dont sell tickets they wont have money for coaching staffs, scouting depts, marketing dept, etc, etc, etc

[OpIv37]

Everybody wants to watch the game. There was a time when I couldn't afford season tix and was lucky to go to one game a year. I never *****ed about the blackout. You don't like it then SUE the NFL. I never implied that the honest tax payers are the blame. The ones who cheat are. If they didn't cheat I bet those tix and the remainder of the season would be sold. And I am sorry, but there is this Buffalo attitude about getting something for nothing.

but that's where I think you're wrong. Over the years, the people have contributed so much to this team in terms of money and support. I fully understand why they feel screwed when they don't get to see the game over 3000 tickets. It's a drop in the bucket to Ralph.

[L.A. Playa]

Playing Devils Advocate, lets say I am NE owner and I sellout my game against Buffalo of 65,000 seats at an average price of $100 a ticket. Buffalo gets 40% or $2.6 mil of that revenue.

When I play at Buffalo lets say the Bills sell out 75,000 seats at an average of $70 at ticket. I get $2.1 mil for playing them, so as owner of the Pats I basically hand the Bills $500k a year by being in the same division as them.

So if I am a greedy NE owner I would sugest either A.) they charge more for tickets so it be a fair trade off of road ticket revenues or B.) if they cant sell out every game build a new stadium with higher ticket prices so they can sell out every game or C.) relocate the franchise to a place that can have a more equal distribution of gate receipts.

I am not advocating any of these suggestions just trying to show you how the business people of the NFL look at the Buffalo franchise and why it is so important for the Bills to sell out every game

[bigbub2352]

With high taxes and money constantly bein taken it is hard for local business owners to buy up a large quanity of tickets, i own my own business and get raped by taxes every payroll and it sucks but people in Buffalo have supported and continue to support there team 26-27 home games sold out and we were 5-11 last year, this is more about the product on the feild then it is about buffolians willin to pay to watch, my cable bill is 130.00 a month but i dont get NFL network and that is bull**** by the greedy NFL and the greedy Tim Warner cable, Problem is that our stadium is 10,000 more seats then most so a team like INdy or NE who s population and gross income is way higher then here, they have no problems sellin out, also they have been at the top of there division ever year, i remember NE and INdy when they sucked and they had empty seats in the stands it is a matter of TD ****ing this team up and yes finally we r showing a hint of light at the end of the tunnnel, i bet if we win half our games left we sell out the entire season next year, PRIME Ex, buffalo sabres

[Typ0]

TV contract is supposed to pay player salaries, as EB said ticket sales and Merchandise, etc. are the pool the owners have to pay the rest of their expenses, so in theory if they dont sell tickets they wont have money for coaching staffs, scouting depts, marketing dept, etc, etc, etc

EB has it all wrong because his focus is in the wrong place. The TV revenues pay the salaries for the teams yes but there are other billions of dollars in TV revenues that goes directly into the NFL organziation that the teams do not see. The TV revenues do not just get split up amongst the teams and pay the players salaries. And what Eb said would be true if the blackouts were determined by the teams on a case by case basis which they aren't it's the league who imposes those restrictions. Not that the teams don't have an interest...they need these blackouts to protect their revenues from the gate supposedly.. but that was back three decades ago and things were different then. I think it's pretty clear to everyone with a brain that having the games on TV is what gets people interested in the team and out to the stadium. I bet I would be a lot more excited about the team was I able to see the game last weekend.. so their logic is faulty in todays world.

The end result is going to be taking the games off broadcast television and having them on paid television. They are already moving in this direction.

[Typ0]

as does your "I ain't buy a ticket I already pay taxes" rant. :::

I don't think so Eb. I have been to plenty of games. Don't put it on me because there was a blackout and you are a season ticket holder.

[Ebenezer]

The TV revenues pay the salaries for the teams...

OK, I'll buy that. IF the product were not on TV the NFL would have to live on the gate receipts like any other form of entertainment. One could argue that the people who sit at home and watch the game and buy the products that pay for the commercials the real enablers, no?? They are the ones that make it easy for the NFL to keep enforcing their antiquated rules about sellouts and such. Stop watching TV, stop buying the products that are advertised and pick up a ticket and don't spend at any money at the stadium and watch the policy change.

[Ebenezer]

I think it's pretty clear to everyone with a brain that having the games on TV is what gets people interested in the team and out to the stadium. I bet I would be a lot more excited about the team was I able to see the game last weekend.. so their logic is faulty in todays world.


Today's world?? Today's world is right about so much, eh? Screw today's world. If we are going to judge things on the standards of today's world then we are in deep ****. I've been to Genesis concerts and I have some on video tape. Nothing like seeing them live. I've been to Bills games and I have watched them on TV for 35 years. Nothing like seeing them live. I've been to Sabres games and I have watched them on TV for 35 years. Nothing like seeing them live. Insinuating that people in "today's world" can only be entertained or appreciate something if they see it on TV (internet, insert multimedia source here) fails to give people credit that they can actually appreciate something happening live.

[Ebenezer]

I don't think so Eb. I have been to plenty of games. Don't put it on me because there was a blackout and you are a season ticket holder.
I'm not putting it on you. I'm putting it on the numbers of people that consistantly ***** about the games not being on TV but rarely, if ever, go to a game themselves. They come out of the woodwork everytime there is a game not sold out. Just watch the TV news to see them - at a bar being interviewed complaining. How many have satellite subscribed to other zip codes so that they can get the ticket with the Bills games?

Screw the blackout rule for a minute and think of this. Three days before the game it was announced that there were 7,000 tix. A holiday weekend when many come home to visit family. A weekend where a winning team was coming to town. A weekend in late Novemeber that we had 60 degree temps. A weekend where the Bills were coming off an exciting last second win that was on TV. And they failed to sell ALMOST ANY tickets?? That is terrible. The perfect weekend for a walk in crowd and nobody showed. Explain that.

[The_Philster]

Then, where's the local advertisers and sponsors? Why aren't they stepping up and buying the remaining tickets and giving them away so they can still get the the game on TV?
They frequently do...but 7,000?

[BillyT92679]

I'm not putting it on you. I'm putting it on the numbers of people that consistantly ***** about the games not being on TV but rarely, if ever, go to a game themselves. They come out of the woodwork everytime there is a game not sold out. Just watch the TV news to see them - at a bar being interviewed complaining. How many have satellite subscribed to other zip codes so that they can get the ticket with the Bills games?

Screw the blackout rule for a minute and think of this. Three days before the game it was announced that there were 7,000 tix. A holiday weekend when many come home to visit family. A weekend where a winning team was coming to town. A weekend in late Novemeber that we had 60 degree temps. A weekend where the Bills were coming off an exciting last second win that was on TV. And they failed to sell ALMOST ANY tickets?? That is terrible. The perfect weekend for a walk in crowd and nobody showed. Explain that.
Sadly, it tells me that maybe Buffalo no longer is big enough to have an NFL franchise. I still think this area does, but taking the passion of the true Bills fans (those who either attend every game, or attend every game in spirit at home with their merchandise and memorabilia and the game on the tv) this is a metro area of about 210,000 fewer people than 35 years ago, with a much worse economy and millions of other people in places like LA, Portland or San Antonio.

[YardRat]

I find it amazing that 10-15 years ago it was a big deal for every venue in the NFL to sell out on a single weekend, yet this year every game has been soldout except one, league-wide.

[Ebenezer]

Sadly, it tells me that maybe Buffalo no longer is big enough to have an NFL franchise. I still think this area does, but taking the passion of the true Bills fans (those who either attend every game, or attend every game in spirit at home with their merchandise and memorabilia and the game on the tv) this is a metro area of about 210,000 fewer people than 35 years ago, with a much worse economy and millions of other people in places like LA, Portland or San Antonio.
...and actually I think the attendence at games for a few years now has been bolstered by fans of the opponent. At each game this year there were significant numbers of fans of the other teams. Sunday? There were few Jags fans. I bet the same will happen this weekend. Also, I will not use the Tennessee game as an indicator of anything. The Bills could be 12-2 at that point and there would still be no more than 55K in the stands on 12/24 - and I don't blame them.

[Cntrygal]

I wish I could be there. :(

[Bmax]

I guess my taxes for stadium improvements don't count..

Indy is building a new stadium with more seats... state of the art facility with retractable roof...Named after big oil company..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium

If the bills ever built a new stadium it would have to be a dome with 68,000 seats...

Bmax

[Dr. Lecter]

A dome would bomb in this area.

[jpdex12]

yeah well, speak for yourself.

when I was in HS and college in Rochester/Niagara Falls/Fredonia in the mid-to-late 90's I had to endure numerous blackouts. I didn't have my own car for most of that time so I had no way to get to the games, and probably wouldn't have been able to afford to go on my 20-hr a week Wegmans job anyway.

Not everyone in the blackout range has the means to get to the stadium or pay for a ticket.

For this matter, most of the posters on this site that constantly cry "suck it up, buy the tickets" are most likely already living in the Buffalo area (short drive to the stadium). Not to say that there are a few that have to travel to games. Stop and think about the fans east of Rochester and beyond that can't make it to every game as easily as you Buffalo residents. The same fan that can make it out to a couple of games a year but not every single one. And then the games that we can't make it to have the potential to get blacked out because not enough of our fellow fans in Buffalo pony up and provide a sellout crowd. Our hearts bleed red, white and navy blue just like yours so start being a little more compasionate and lend us a hand. My god!
I may have to move a little further north to Watertown just to watch the friggin blackouts. What's another 30 miles to drive to a game anyway...

[BillyT92679]

...and actually I think the attendence at games for a few years now has been bolstered by fans of the opponent. At each game this year there were significant numbers of fans of the other teams. Sunday? There were few Jags fans. I bet the same will happen this weekend. Also, I will not use the Tennessee game as an indicator of anything. The Bills could be 12-2 at that point and there would still be no more than 55K in the stands on 12/24 - and I don't blame them.
My buddy used to work for the Bills store. In essence what he always told me was true for the Bills
Now for the Steelers or Packers, Pats, Bears, different story, they can sell out on season ticket holders alone. But Buffalo never gets above 47K with seasons, so they rely on individual game sales (which really means, they rely on having fans from other teams to come here).
How many Jags or Chargers fans do most people know?? These are two teams themselves that always seem to be on the cusp of moving, therefore it's not likely you'd see their fans be in Buffalo to watch a game.

[BillyT92679]

For this matter, most of the posters on this site that constantly cry "suck it up, buy the tickets" are most likely already living in the Buffalo area (short drive to the stadium). Not to say that there are a few that have to travel to games. Stop and think about the fans east of Rochester and beyond that can't make it to every game as easily as you Buffalo residents. The same fan that can make it out to a couple of games a year but not every single one. And then the games that we can't make it to have the potential to get blacked out because not enough of our fellow fans in Buffalo pony up and provide a sellout crowd. Our hearts bleed red, white and navy blue just like yours so start being a little more compasionate and lend us a hand. My god!
I may have to move a little further north to Watertown just to watch the friggin blackouts. What's another 30 miles to drive to a game anyway...
Good point.
UTICA blacks out for Bills games since WTVH in Syracuse is the ONLY CBS affiliate in Central NY. Toronto too, unless you have a dish.
The primary market should black out (WIVB viewing area). The secondary markets should not.

[The_Philster]

I guess my taxes for stadium improvements don't count..

Indy is building a new stadium with more seats... state of the art facility with retractable roof...Named after big oil company..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium

If the bills ever built a new stadium it would have to be a dome with 68,000 seats...

Bmax
No domes :down: Domed football stadiums are the work of commies

[CuseJetsFan83]

Good point.
UTICA blacks out for Bills games since WTVH in Syracuse is the ONLY CBS affiliate in Central NY. Toronto too, unless you have a dish.
The primary market should black out (WIVB viewing area). The secondary markets should not.

well the NFL laws state that any place that falls within 75 miles of the stadium falls subject to the rules........ obviously rochester is well in that...... and as far as WTVH's feed.... its a slight sliver of viewership inside the 75 mile radius, so because of that, you end up having the thruway up til herkimer out............ so until those laws are changed by the NFL...... we just have to deal

being a jets fan, living in syracuse, i rarely see jets games on normal tv unless its either jets/bills *dont usually see these games on the account im at them*........ or if the bills are either off or at a diff. time slot.

but, the blackout rule is basically the NFL's way of trying to get people to go to the games......... but when teams are substandard, its not fun........

[Historian]

I always found it ironic...baseball, hockey and basketball give you most of the local team's games, and blackout everyone else.

Football blacks out your home team, yet has no problem giving you everybody else. Almost as if they have it backwards.

It's weird. I agree the rule is antiquated, but if you take the emotion out of it, you have to agree that it's at least helped keep the Bills here this long.

The problem here, is the casual fan. The guy who goes once or twice a year. Take last week. Attendance was 63,000. Take roughly 35,000 season tix holders away from that. That leaves 28,000. Take 10,000 from that, as 10K represents the luxury boxes and five year prepaid lease seating.

That means the Bills only sold 18,000 tickets for Jacksonville.

On a positive note, it means they only have to sell 28,000 individual tickets to lift a blackout.

When you break it down, it doesn't seem so insurmountable. But again, the casual fan has taken his money this year, and spent it on hockey, as the Sabres season is practically down to single seats.

[Ebenezer]

I always found it ironic...baseball, hockey and basketball give you most of the local team's games, and blackout everyone else.

Football blacks out your home team, yet has no problem giving you everybody else. Almost as if they have it backwards.


The difference is the number of games. 8 vs. 41 vs. 81

[Historian]

The difference is the number of games. 8 vs. 41 vs. 81

So?

Why should number of games have anything to do with it?

By following that reasoning, hockey has 33 more chances to black people out to make more profit. ...baseball 73 times, yet, they broadcast the games anyways.

It never made sense to me. It's as if the NFL's marketing strategy for the last 40 years has been...We'll black them out, then they'll want it even more.

Whereas the other sports seem to bask in the exposure and the fanbase that television creates.

The reason I follow and support the Yankees, is because they're on tv here.

I just never understood the reasoning.

[CuseJetsFan83]

whats kinda kooky, is you think with only 8 NFL home games that you would be easier to sell those, but alas its not the case........ at least not the past few years, but as far as the sabres vs bills discussion....... isnt hsbc only 18K for seating cap.?

but thats an apples to orange discussion.....

speaking of orange....... SU - carrier dome - official attendance for the football is usually in the mid 30-low 40k's with a capacity just below 50k.......... whereas their basketball team which also uses the dome can seat 33k+

the more successful team will always make the money, but in the case of su basketball.... those extra games dont hurt the bottom line either.


plain and simple, if you have the money and your a fan........... go........ (if you can that is... people have other mitigating circumstances), and if your a fairweather fan.... then obviously the choice is up to you........ if i was a bill fan, i'd guarantee that i'd be a season ticket holder and go to everygame....... but im not.... but still would if i could........

i am a season ticket holder for my local hockey team because its cheap...... at least compared to NHL single game box office tix lol (my seats cost 300 each) but when teams are popular/winning seats sell no matter what sport it is

[YardRat]

But if the reasoning is to sell more tickets, it's working, Hist. Every game has been a sell-out league-wide except for Buffalo/Jax. Baseball, hockey, and baseball can't make the same claim.

[Historian]

But if the reasoning is to sell more tickets, it's working, Hist. Every game has been a sell-out league-wide except for Buffalo/Jax. Baseball, hockey, and baseball can't make the same claim.

I agree with you about selling tix, but then that brings us back to tv.

TV is where the big bucks come from, not in-house attendance.

The 1987 strike proved that.

The owners put the games on, simply to get their tv money, fans in the seats be damned. The Bills played their first home scab game against the Colts (10/4/87, 47-6 loss) before 9,860 fans in the seats. Their second home scab game against the Giants, (10/18/87, 6-3 victory) was before 15,737.

Incidentally, blackout rules were suspended for all three weeks of the strike.

You tell me why.

[YardRat]

I don't claim to know the TV revenue issue or the blackout rule inside and out, but this is the way I understand it...

Each NFL team gets an equal share of the total contracts signed with the networks, and that dollar amount is the same regardless of how many tickets are sold. The Bills could sell out every game, or they could not sell a single ticket and their TV revenue would remain the same.

The networks recoup the expense of the contracts through advertisers willing to buy spots on the nationally shown games, and anything they get in local markets as a result of a sell-out are gravy.

The only faction that 'makes out' are local TV stations, which in the case of a sell-out and non-blacked-out game would then get to sell local advertising at a premium because they're showing the game instead of alternative programming.

Ticket sales are simply split between the two teams, with no sharing involved, as another poster stated early, so increased fans in the seats only increase the revenue for those teams, with the majority going to the home team, so it's a bigger benefit for the host than anybody else.

Finally, I would say the only reason the black-out rule was suspended for the strike games was to keep the sport on the map and in full view of the fan base during a difficult labor dispute. I would bet, though I really can't say with any certainty, that the networks had some say in 'encouraging' the NFL to drop the rule during those games in order to maximize their exposure and maintain what they perceive as a fair return on their expense.

[bigbub2352]

Again i will state that i think it should be a league average capacity to dictate the final outcome of a blackout, any way you look at it the NFL is making money, when games are sold out or close to a sell out and on TV everyone benefits especially local businesses and restraunts/bars, NFL makes there money, advertisers, make there money and the owners make there money on say 65-68000 tickets sold, I just think this is big business tryin to push the little guy and usually big business has its way and that is unfortunate, do u get to be taxed less for the bills if all 8 games are not on TV i doubt it, also do u get taxed more if the Bills want a new stadium and u r not a fan of football u betcha, seems kinda unfair doesnt it, that is why an agreement should be made so that Dallas and its little stadium and huge population is the same as Buffalo and its smaller population, Again i have seasons and go to 1 or 2 away games and have been to 12 stadiums and watched fans leave there teams when they go down by a touchdown or feild goal just to get out of the parking lot, and far all the **** we put up with even if we are 10,000 short to watch a game u dont see people leavin they cheer to the end red white and blue fans are the best in the country hands down that is why we need to think of something to fix this problem

[Michael82]

I'm not putting it on you. I'm putting it on the numbers of people that consistantly ***** about the games not being on TV but rarely, if ever, go to a game themselves. They come out of the woodwork everytime there is a game not sold out. Just watch the TV news to see them - at a bar being interviewed complaining. How many have satellite subscribed to other zip codes so that they can get the ticket with the Bills games?

Screw the blackout rule for a minute and think of this. Three days before the game it was announced that there were 7,000 tix. A holiday weekend when many come home to visit family. A weekend where a winning team was coming to town. A weekend in late Novemeber that we had 60 degree temps. A weekend where the Bills were coming off an exciting last second win that was on TV. And they failed to sell ALMOST ANY tickets?? That is terrible. The perfect weekend for a walk in crowd and nobody showed. Explain that.
I'll tell you why.....

Stubhub, Ebay, Cheaptickets, and other online ticket brokers has killed walk-in sales. People figured out that they can buy it cheaper or get better seats on those sites instead of ordering from the Bills directly. These are people that would have had the usual walk-in sales and now they are buying it from someone else instead of the Bills.