It Truly Amazes Me...

[YardRat]

...that anyone that dares critcize JP Losman is labeled a 'hater' and a 'non-Bills fan', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is fair game.

Why??

[Nighthawk]

Because everybody wants so badly to have JP turn into the player we hoped he would be. Now everybody is on edge to prove they're right. Who cares who's right as long as it turns out well for the Bills. Am I a JP lover, no. However, if he turns out to be the next coming of John Elway, then I'm good with that and I don't really care if I'm wrong.

[TacklingDummy]

...that anyone that dares critcize JP Losman is labeled a 'hater' and a 'non-Bills fan', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is fair game.

Why??


Good Question.

I praise most of the team and I get called a hater because I think JP has for the most part stunk since he's been here.

People have to start being fans of the team and not just fans of 1 player.

[PECKERWOOD]

It's the senseless bashing that gets me upset. If you wan't to criticize JP fine. But it makes no sense to criticize someone after a GREAT game. So if you want to bash Losman, atleast wait till he has another bad game.

[The_Philster]

Haters blame Losman for everything short of global warming it seems and refuse to give credit when it's due...even going so far as to find negatives in the good


People have to start being fans of the team and not just fans of 1 player.I'm pretty sure there are few, if any, people here who are fans of JP only :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

It's the senseless bashing that gets me upset. If you wan't to criticize JP fine. But it makes no sense to criticize someone after a GREAT game. So if you want to bash Losman, atleast wait till he has another bad game.
:10:
and use a little common sense in your criticisms

[TacklingDummy]

It's the senseless bashing that gets me upset. If you wan't to criticize JP fine. But it makes no sense to criticize someone after a GREAT game.

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.

[Yasgur's Farm]

It's the senseless bashing that gets me upset. If you wan't to criticize JP fine. But it makes no sense to criticize someone after a GREAT game. So if you want to bash Losman, atleast wait till he has another bad game.Bingo!

[Mitchy moo]

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.

They left that play in from MM playbook, :oops:

[YardRat]

It's the senseless bashing that gets me upset. If you wan't to criticize JP fine. But it makes no sense to criticize someone after a GREAT game. So if you want to bash Losman, atleast wait till he has another bad game.

And yet after Willis scores two TD's, both on great runs, we see threads like "Why did we draft Willis and Release Henry?"

What's the difference?

[SABURZFAN]

Because everybody wants so badly to have JP turn into the player we hoped he would be. Now everybody is on edge to prove they're right.



who do you think started that to get them on edge? :idunno:

[Yasgur's Farm]

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.That's it right there... You take the hater stance that it was a JP boneheaded play... When it was clear to everybody who saw it that it was simply a case of JP getting hit by his own lineman as he released.

[TacklingDummy]

And yet after Willis scores two TD's, both on great runs, we see threads like "Why did we draft Willis and Release Henry?"

What's the difference?

Don't you remember that Willis missed that block in the Detroit game that caused Losman to fumble? They hate Willis because they need someone to blame, besides blaming JP himself, for JP sucking.

[YardRat]

Haters blame Losman for everything short of global warming it seems and refuse to give credit when it's due...even going so far as to find negatives in the good


Spikes is recovering from a possible career-threatening injury, he's in the starting line-up and playing but not yet putting up big numbers or making game-changing plays...yet he's roundly criticized on the boards to the point that a lot of posters feel he should be replaced.

Are they haters also? Non-Bills fans??

Isn't the criticism of Takeo's play a prime example of a negative being lost in the good?

[SABURZFAN]

And yet after Willis scores two TD's, both on great runs, we see threads like "Why did we draft Willis and Release Henry?"

What's the difference?


i gave accolades to Willis and Parrish after the win and people wanted my opinion of somebody who didn't have a TD.who cares??? :idunno:

[PECKERWOOD]

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.

What about that game where Royal had like 2-3 dropped passes? JP is the only player on our team making mistakes? Wow, news flash to me. Carry on with all your bashing, it is now justified.

[TacklingDummy]

That's it right there... You take the hater stance that it was a JP boneheaded play... When it was clear to everybody who saw it that it was simply a case of JP getting hit by his own lineman as he released.

Uh huh , who do you blame when JP fumbled when the Ref. got in the way a few weeks back?

[SABURZFAN]

Isn't the criticism of Takeo's play a prime example of a negative being lost in the good?


i said earlier in the year that TKO's best days were in cincinatti.

[YardRat]

:10:
and use a little common sense in your criticisms

Who gets to determine the definition of common sense? You??

Maybe your 'common sense' actually sounds ******ed to others. Or vice versa. Does that make either one more right or wrong?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Uh huh , who do you blame when JP fumbled when the Ref. got in the way a few weeks back?Why do you go to "a few weeks back" when the Bills are currently on a 2 game (3 of 4)winning streak?

[YardRat]

What about that game where Royal had like 2-3 dropped passes? JP is the only player on our team making mistakes? Wow, news flash to me. Carry on with all your bashing, it is now justified.

So criticizing Royal for dropping 2-3 passes is OK, but criticizing Losman for throwing 2-3 bad passes is 'hating'??

[PECKERWOOD]

And yet after Willis scores two TD's, both on great runs, we see threads like "Why did we draft Willis and Release Henry?"

What's the difference?

You don't see me bashing Willis in any of those threads do ya? Alot of people are disappointed about Willis is because they are stuck in the past. They see what Larry Johnson is doing in KC and naturally they are thinking: "****.. We could of had that.. " Or then they look at Travis Henry's rebirth and saying: "Shoot, why did we get rid of him again?" I don't see anybody kicking themselves over wanting Bledsoe back, or wishing Holcomb were the starter. It's two different players, and each player deserves criticism but you must base it off of the circumstances.

[The_Philster]

Spikes is recovering from a possible career-threatening injury, he's in the starting line-up and playing but not yet putting up big numbers or making game-changing plays...yet he's roundly criticized on the boards to the point that a lot of posters feel he should be replaced.

Are they haters also? Non-Bills fans??

Isn't the criticism of Takeo's play a prime example of a negative being lost in the good?
possible...personally, I think a part of his struggles are due to the fact he switched over to SLB this season. He's simply not gonna put up a lot of numbers at that position. He plays in coverage more at that position than is done at the WLB position

[The_Philster]

Who gets to determine the definition of common sense? You??

Maybe your 'common sense' actually sounds ******ed to others. Or vice versa. Does that make either one more right or wrong?
when you're screaming for JP to get rid of the ball when he hasn't even finished dropping back to pass...that's a lack of common sense

[PECKERWOOD]

So criticizing Royal for dropping 2-3 passes is OK, but criticizing Losman for throwing 2-3 bad passes is 'hating'??

You missed my point by a mile. My point was quite the contrary to what you are asking me. Is it ok? Not at all. That was my point. Royal had a couple bad plays the week before, and this week he made a great play. This happens with every player, they are human just like you and me.

[The_Philster]

So criticizing Royal for dropping 2-3 passes is OK, but criticizing Losman for throwing 2-3 bad passes is 'hating'??dropped passes are supposed to be a rarity..a bad pass is usually just an incompletion...not quite as rare

[YardRat]

dropped passes are supposed to be a rarity..a bad pass is usually just an incompletion...not quite as rare

So it's OK to critcize any player for making a bad play that 'should be a rarity'?

If you criticize under that criteria, then your not a hater?

[PECKERWOOD]

So it's OK to critcize any player for making a bad play that 'should be a rarity'?

If you criticize under that criteria, then your not a hater?

I consider you a hater if you look for any reason to bash a player, like some people are doing.

[The_Philster]

So it's OK to critcize any player for making a bad play that 'should be a rarity'?

If you criticize under that criteria, then your not a hater?
personally, I criticize any bad play...incompletion, dropped pass, interception, whatever...but a dropped pass is pretty obviously the fault of the receiver...incompletions aren't as cut-and-dried.....maybe the QB made a bad throw, bad read...or maybe the WR didn't run the route properly or something

[jmb1099]

Everybody is open for criticism but there are extremeists on both sides of the issue who will continue to try to frustrate one another becaue they get some strange satisfation from seeing the reaction. No offense intended to anyone, but if Losman throws a bad pass its a bad pass, if he makes a bad play than its a bad play. But the reverse is true as well, if he gets hit on the arm by his own lineman while throwing a pass than of course its an incidental...poop happens on the football field as well as it does during anyone else's job. If WM misses a blind side block and JP gets clocked expect the ball to come out because more often than not that's what happens when any qb gets hit on his blindside. Running into the ref...not his best moment, no question. Last two games, played very well as he should considering he's a number one pick.
Give credit and criticism where and when its due

[PECKERWOOD]

The thing that is impossible for my mind to grasp is, why? Why are people looking to find blemishes in our current and potentially our future QB? What if we were to can Losman? What then? We would have to draft another QB or bring one in through FA. It's in Bill's fans best interest to see Losman succeed, so it makes no sense trying to run him out of town. A perfect example in which this has happened is Detroit. Say what you want about Harrington, but he sure delivered a nice ass-whooping to his old team.

[The_Philster]

personally, I criticize any bad play...incompletion, dropped pass, interception, whatever...but a dropped pass is pretty obviously the fault of the receiver...incompletions aren't as cut-and-dried.....maybe the QB made a bad throw, bad read...or maybe the WR didn't run the route properly or something
let me expand on this just a little
Super Bowl XXX...Cowboys-Steelers
2 picks thrown to Larry Brown by O'Donnell
O'Donnell got ripped to shreds by Steelers fans at the bar I was hanging out at back then...some of them even going so far as to say that he did it on purpose..however...neither of those picks was purely his fault
1 got away from him...bad pass.....it didn't get away cleanly, as I remember
the other...Yancy Thigpen was supposed to cut one way in his break....and he cut the other way..the WR ran the wrong route...yet the QB was getting the blame...that's a lack of common sense

[HHURRICANE]

...that anyone that dares critcize JP Losman is labeled a 'hater' and a 'non-Bills fan', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is fair game.Why??

Everybody is fair game.

We traded up to get JP. He was the 4th rated QB in the '04 draft. There are high expectations on him but, Carson Palmer who went #1 in '03, had an almost identical growth curve through a similar amount of games. That's why I get P'd off when everything is JP's fault.

Clements, who's a very good player, definately didn't play well for a stretch, and that's fair game when you're making 7 mil a year.

McGahee, declared himself the best back in football last year, and has played very average since. He's a good player but I'm pretty sure that it was him, and not the Billszone, that raised the bar.

Spikes, incurred an injury. Not his fault by any means. He has been a ghost this year. He's recovering, but again, he's scheduled to make 5.5 mil next year. A real lot for a guy who has been non-existant this year.

JP doesn't make as much as these guys, and has no where near the starts, but he seems to get the most criticism. If he's fair game than certainly the others are.

[YardRat]

If he's fair game than certainly the others are.

Which returns us to the original question.

If JP is fair game for critcism, why are those who do so labeled as haters and non-fans?

[The_Philster]

Which returns us to the original question.

If JP is fair game for critcism, why are those who do so labeled as haters and non-fans?
they aren't...not all of them....not usually anyway. There are some who heap undue criticisms on him...the non-fan thing...well, I can only think of one poster who throws that term about :cold: :laughter:

[PECKERWOOD]

I think you have failed to making the point you were trying to make YardRat.

[Dr. Lecter]

Why?

Because some of the people who criticize JP also refuse to give him any credit. They refuse to acknowledge that the QB position takes time to learn and develop. Some of them heap all of the problems on JP. Soem say this team would be 9-2 with a different QB, without admitting other problems on the team.

TD's post about the int. is aperfect example. The pass looked horrible when Preston was bulldozed into JP while he was releasing the ball. Yet he leaves that fact out.

[Dr. Lecter]

Which returns us to the original question.

If JP is fair game for critcism, why are those who do so labeled as haters and non-fans?

Not all of them are.

Only those that have devoted their Message Board lives to criticism of JP, no matter what, are.

[SABURZFAN]

I think you have failed at trying to make the point you were trying to make YardRat.


yeah....there isn't a Licker with the balls to answer the question yet.

[PECKERWOOD]

Why?

Because some of the people who criticize JP also refuse to give him any credit. They refuse to acknowledge that the QB position takes time to learn and develop. Some of them heap all of the problems on JP. Soem say this team would be 9-2 with a different QB, without admitting other problems on the team.

TD's post about the int. is aperfect example. The pass looked horrible when Preston was bulldozed into JP while he was releasing the ball. Yet he leaves that fact out.


TD's post about the int. is aperfect example. The pass looked horrible when Preston was bulldozed into JP while he was releasing the ball. Yet he leaves that fact out.

And you start to question why these facts are consistently being left out.

[Goobylal]

People either liked, hated, or were indifferent to JP when he was drafted, based on some first impression like he was cocky, or was a rising star, or a distant 4th QB that year. Those who disliked him seemed to be justified based on his play his first 2 years or so and entrenched themselves after getting flamed for hating him. Now it's a matter of ego to REFUSE to see the progress he's made and the talent he possesses. Nothing more than that. The indifferent ones are starting to like him.

[Dr. Lecter]

yeah....there isn't a Licker with the balls to answer the question yet.

It truly amazes me that people like you ***** about the hater title and then apply the licker title.

[Mitchy moo]

It truly amazes me that people like you ***** about the hater title and them apply the licker title.

The only lickers we have on here lately is the San fran transients that have came to visit, bunch of cupcakers.

[SABURZFAN]

It truly amazes me that people like you ***** about the hater title and them apply the licker title.



it amazes me how you jump to the conclusions of what you want to believe and make comments like this.then again....no it doesn't.i think it bothers you more that the Licker label is out there and they know who they are.

[Dr. Lecter]

And lets face it: The QB position stirs more emotion than any other on the field. People either love or hate the QB. Look at the Johnson (China Doll) and Flutie (Backstabber) debate. It still gets people fired up.

Losman is that case. The people that either liked or him or were willing to give him a chance are enthusiastic now. And those that did not like him or thought 8 games was enough, are not sure what to think.

[Bling]

Everybody is fair game.

We traded up to get JP. He was the 4th rated QB in the '04 draft. There are high expectations on him but, Carson Palmer who went #1 in '03, had an almost identical growth curve through a similar amount of games. That's why I get P'd off when everything is JP's fault.

Go ahead, groan me and neg me HHURRICANE, but you need to open your mother****ing eyes.

Similar curve? Right now, Losman has as many years in the league as Palmer last year.

Palmer last year through 11 games: 23 TD, 7 INTs, 2922 yards passing 69% passing
Losman this year through 11 games: 10 TD, 8 INTs, 2007 yards passing, 64% passing


Palmer has had more TD's thrown in that 11 week span than Losman has in his career. I don't know what lens you look through, but the stats don't lie. Comparing Palmer to Losman is an insult to Palmer.

[Philagape]

So criticizing Royal for dropping 2-3 passes is OK, but criticizing Losman for throwing 2-3 bad passes is 'hating'??

Going out of one's way to find the small minority of imperfections among an otherwise good day is hating, yes. That's holding a player to too high of a standard, and doing so when one has a history of disproportionate bashing of that player is HATE.

Criticism that is obviously based more on bias than on appropriate, substantial, relevant analysis is HATE.

No Bills fan HATES a Bills player. Criticism is fine, but there's a lot more than that on these boards.

[THATHURMANATOR]

...that anyone that dares critcize JP Losman is labeled a 'hater' and a 'non-Bills fan', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is fair game.

Why??
No one ever said JP was immune to criticism. It is just the few ******s that make it their duty to hate on everything JP does that are the problem. You should know the difference.

[SABURZFAN]

No Bills fan HATES a Bills player. Criticism is fine



thank you.i will continue to criticize.

[Goobylal]

Go ahead, groan me and neg me HHURRICANE, but you need to open your mother****ing eyes.

Similar curve? Right now, Losman has as many years in the league as Palmer last year.

Palmer last year through 11 games: 23 TD, 7 INTs, 2922 yards passing 69% passing
Losman this year through 11 games: 10 TD, 8 INTs, 2007 yards passing, 64% passing


Palmer has had more TD's thrown in that 11 week span than Losman has in his career. I don't know what lens you look through, but the stats don't lie. Comparing Palmer to Losman is an insult to Palmer.
And comparing JP's surrounding supporting cast to Palmer's is an insult to Palmer's supporting cast. And remember that Palmer was in his THIRD year in his offense last year, while JP is in the first year of his this year.

[Bling]

And comparing JP's surrounding supporting cast to Palmer's is an insult to Palmer's supporting cast. And remember that Palmer was in his THIRD year in his offense last year, while JP is in the first year of his this year.

There we go. So his supporting cast is enough for him to be 13 TD's less than Palmer. Excuse.


Just admit it: Losman isn't as good as Palmer, Manning, Brees, Brady, McNabb. He's in the league of Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Charlie Frye. He's a tad less than Joey Harrington.

[PECKERWOOD]

Thanks for being the perfect example Bling. This is the senseless bashing I was talking about.

[Dr. Lecter]

There we go. So his supporting cast is enough for him to be 13 TD's less than Palmer. Excuse.


Just admit it: Losman isn't as good as Palmer, Manning, Brees, Brady, McNabb. He's in the league of Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Charlie Frye. He's a tad less than Joey Harrington.

You're kidding, right?

Vick is terrible. Frye is young too, so he gets a pass. Plummer? He is bad, man.

The fact is JP is young. He came from a small school. He was not going to be ready early in his career.

[mchurchfie]

No one ever said JP was immune to criticism. It is just the few ******s that make it their duty to hate on everything JP does that are the problem. You should know the difference.F'CK JP!!:jawdrop::eeklol:

[Philagape]

The Beavis commentators can no longer just say JP "sucks" (huh huh), so in their zeal to make JP look bad, they start pointing to other QBs.

I'll just say right now, I DON'T CARE what any other QB does. QBs develop at different rates, in different ways, in different environments. If JP develops into a good QB, then the time and the manner it took to do so are irrelevant.

[mchurchfie]

Thanks for being the perfect example Bling. This is the senseless bashing I was talking about.
I think what he just said makes good sense. I don't see that as bashing at all. Until JP does otherwise he isn't as good as the top tier QB`s

[PECKERWOOD]

The Beavis commentators can no longer just say JP "sucks" (huh huh), so in their zeal to make JP look bad, they start pointing to other QBs.

I'll just say right now, I DON'T CARE what any other QB does. QBs develop at different rates, in different ways, in different environments. If JP develops into a good QB, then the time and the manner it took to do so are irrelevant.

:lol:

[PECKERWOOD]

I think what he just said makes good sense. I don't see that as bashing at all.

Really? Their respective situations were so much different its unbelievable.

[mchurchfie]

Really? Their respective situations were so much different its unbelievable.
I know they are and that is probably a huge factor in JP not being as good as those QBs, but the harsh reality of it right now is that he doesn't belong amongst those top QBs until he starts to prove it consistently. He's had a couple of good games. I'm not totally sold on the guy but that doesn't mean I hate him. We've had the rug pulled out on us before with this team so I am very guarded. That doesn't make me or anyone else a hater for being that way. People on this board need to lighten up a little. I've belonged to this forum since day one and have never seen it this bad before with people jumping all over everybody.

[PECKERWOOD]

I know they are and that is probably a huge factor in JP not being as good as those QBs, but the harsh reality of it right now is that he doesn't belong amongst those top QBs until he starts to prove it consistently. He's had a couple of good games. I'm not totally sold on the guy but that doesn't mean I hate him. We've had the rug pulled out on us before with this team so I am very guarded. That doesn't make me or anyone else a hater for being that way. People on this board need to lighten up a little. I've belonged to this forum since day one and have never seen it this bad before with people jumping all over everybody.

You misunderstood what Bling was doing. He was comparing Palmers 3rd season in the NFL to JP's 3rd season in the NFL. He failed to mention that Palmer has had the same offense in Cincy since he was drafted. To corroborate even further, Palmer started a full season before he played in his 3rd season. He was already much more weathered and experience than Losman currently is in his 3rd year. It would be more accurate to compare Palmers 2nd season to JP's 3rd season. Even then it is still off. There are many advantages a QB has when he knows his offense inside-out, JP hasn't had the benefit considering all the coaching changes we have had.


People on this board need to lighten up a little. I've belonged to this forum since day one and have never seen it this bad before with people jumping all over everybody.

Maybe people do need to lighten up. I however have more fun when people call me out on my posts. Debating is always much more entertaining than everybody agreeing in unison all the time. A little controversy and difference at times, can be just what the doctor ordered.

[Mitchy moo]

I know they are and that is probably a huge factor in JP not being as good as those QBs, but the harsh reality of it right now is that he doesn't belong amongst those top QBs until he starts to prove it consistently. He's had a couple of good games. I'm not totally sold on the guy but that doesn't mean I hate him. We've had the rug pulled out on us before with this team so I am very guarded. That doesn't make me or anyone else a hater for being that way. People on this board need to lighten up a little. I've belonged to this forum since day one and have never seen it this bad before with people jumping all over everybody.

Why you mother........ J/K.

[Goobylal]

There we go. So his supporting cast is enough for him to be 13 TD's less than Palmer. Excuse.
Try a reading comprehension course. The "And remember..." part was supposed to say that ALONG with a better supporting cast (in case you missed it, the Bungles had one of the best O-lines in the NFL last year, along with OchoCinco, Housh, Henry, and RudiJ), Palmer knew his offense MUCH better than JP did. You see, QB's often-times struggle their first year in a new offense, like I told FTP Culpepper would given his history. And boy did THAT ever prove correct.

Just admit it: Losman isn't as good as Palmer, Manning, Brees, Brady, McNabb. He's in the league of Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Charlie Frye. He's a tad less than Joey Harrington.
Yeah, I guess that's why JP's QB rating is 12.5 points HIGHER than Harrington's.:oops:

The others you mentioned I'll give you, although Brady isn't looking so hot anymore and McNabb is injured and considered a choker like Manning.

[THATHURMANATOR]

There we go. So his supporting cast is enough for him to be 13 TD's less than Palmer. Excuse.


Just admit it: Losman isn't as good as Palmer, Manning, Brees, Brady, McNabb. He's in the league of Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Charlie Frye. He's a tad less than Joey Harrington.
Palmer - of course
Manning of course
Brees of course
Brady of course
Mcnabb of course

Vick is a good athlete...
Plummer is benched
Frye looks HORRIBLE

Harrington is a proven loser.

[YardRat]

Let me ask a hypothetical question concerning a specific play against Indianapolis...the sack previous to the missed field goal with 6-plus minutes left in the game.

Royals gets critcized for allowing Freeney, one of the best pass-rushing DE's in the game and going one-on-one with the TE, to blow past him and sack JP. It's 'fair game' to knock Royals for not blocking Dwight, not 'hating'. Is it also fair game to criticize JP for not recognizing the mis-match at the line of scrimmage, checking out of the play into a run after seeing the mis-match, or calling time-out to correct the play call...or is that 'hating'?

[SABURZFAN]

Let me ask a hypothetical question concerning a specific play against Indianapolis...the sack previous to the missed field goal with 6-plus minutes left in the game.

Royals gets critcized for allowing Freeney, one of the best pass-rushing DE's in the game and going one-on-one with the TE, to blow past him and sack JP. It's 'fair game' to knock Royals for not blocking Dwight, not 'hating'. Is it also fair game to criticize JP for not recognizing the mis-match at the line of scrimmage, checking out of the play into a run after seeing the mis-match, or calling time-out to correct the play call...or is that 'hating'?



:movie:

[PECKERWOOD]

Let me ask a hypothetical question concerning a specific play against Indianapolis...the sack previous to the missed field goal with 6-plus minutes left in the game.

Royals gets critcized for allowing Freeney, one of the best pass-rushing DE's in the game and going one-on-one with the TE, to blow past him and sack JP. It's 'fair game' to knock Royals for not blocking Dwight, not 'hating'. Is it also fair game to criticize JP for not recognizing the mis-match at the line of scrimmage, checking out of the play into a run after seeing the mis-match, or calling time-out to correct the play call...or is that 'hating'?

I actually heard the coaches won't allow JP to audible. Not sure if thats changed since then, but would you want him to do, even if he did recognize the mismatch? He had practically ZERO time to do anything, he got sacked almost instantaneously.

[mchurchfie]

Maybe people do need to lighten up. I however have more fun when people call me out on my posts. Debating is always much more entertaining than everybody agreeing in unison all the time. A little controversy and difference at times, can be just what the doctor ordered.
I wholeheartedly agree about debate but that isn't the case in here anymore. It seems like if anyone expresses any opinion or concerns about the team, especially JP, someone jumps their ass and questions their loyalty or character. That's total bull**** IMO.

[mchurchfie]

I actually heard the coaches won't allow JP to audible.
That scares me, Jim Kelly was calling his own plays from day one.:ill:

[PECKERWOOD]

I wholeheartedly agree about debate but that isn't the case in here anymore. It seems like if anyone expresses any opinion or concerns about the team, especially JP, someone jumps their ass and questions their loyalty or character. That's total bull**** IMO.

I guess you have to take into consideration the posters history. Believe it or not, there are people here who bash our QB with no good reason.

[PECKERWOOD]

That scares me, Jim Kelly was calling his own plays from day one.:ill:

It is a little frightening.. Perhaps it's because this is his first year in Fairchild's system? They were also telling him not to scramble earlier on, but I've seen him scrambling more as of late.

[BillsFever21]

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.

In case you are either blind, didn't see the game or just want to try and make your point better, then you failed to see what affected the throw being short and intercepted.

JP was standing in the pocket and set back to throw when Melvin Fowler(I think that's who it was at least) was moving backwards and bumped into Losman and damn near knocked him over as he was releasing the football which caused the throw to be short. How is that a "boneheaded" play that Fowler moved backwards into him as he was throwing the football? I think most of us is interested on how that was a boneheaded play by him.

This isn't an excuse it's just a fact. I wouldn't be surprised if you even didn't see the game you just saw the highlight of the ball floating in the air and being intercepted or you are just searching for any reason to diss Losman in a great game where he was deadly accurte and only missed on 7 passes along with bringing this team to another game winning score on the final play of the game.

And even had JP not been bumped I guess you must believe that no other QB in the NFL has ever thrown an INT in a good played game in which he lead a game winning drive in the final seconds. Nope, they are just pefect with every throw and never misses a pass or makes a mistake.

You offer nothing to this board or anything associated with the Bills. You were never around until Flutie came to Buffalo and was basically just a Flutie fan. Ever since they rid themselves of Flutie you have just went on to bash only the QB's who have followed him for any reason you could find. Are you still that bitter about what happened to Flutie and all the message board wars that was involved with him?

Have you ever talked about anything else besides the QB when it comes to the Bills? I haven't seen it since Flutie left and there's a good reason for it. You're not a Bills fan. You could care less if the team wins. You hope they either lose or the QB makes some mistakes so you can ***** about the QB.

If we win and the QB plays good then you try to come up with excuses for incomplete passes or whatever you can find to make yourself believe they won in spite of him. If we lose it's only the QB's fault even if he played a good game in the loss.

Nobody respects a word that you spew off here and just shakes their head. Go find a Doug Flutie message board to waste away on.

[ublinkwescore]

Even in a so called "great game" JP still can be criticized. Example.... his boneheaded play last week where Royal was there to cover for JPs mistake.

Will you just drop dead already, for crying out loud.

I hope JP puts up a Brees like 500+ yards, throws 7 TDs, 0 INTs, and runs for like 180 yards on the ground in one game so that you'll either have a stroke, or get so pissed off that the veins in your forehead rupture or you at least throw your TV out your window so you can't watch the games anymore.

[BillsFever21]

dropped passes are supposed to be a rarity..a bad pass is usually just an incompletion...not quite as rare

That's too hard for people to realize.

A QB will have over 200 incompletions in a season while the worst WR in the league may have 10 dropped passes. I can see where he gets the comparisons from.

Sarcasm off

Incompletions are common. Happens in every quarter(except for exceptions) or on almost every long drive in an NFL game.

Drops doesn't happen very much so they are a rarity. Trying to compare an incomplete pass to a dropped catch with the same importance just shows how dumb some people really are.

[ublinkwescore]

i gave accolades to Willis and Parrish after the win and people wanted my opinion of somebody who didn't have a TD.who cares??? :idunno:

Yet if that certain someone doesn't decide to go deep with the ball, thus drawing a defensive PI flag, we may not have scored that first TD.

Pass interference flags are like long completions.

[YardRat]

These are the types of comments that drag a discussion into the mud...


Trying to compare an incomplete pass to a dropped catch with the same importance just shows how dumb some people really are.

The original post being referenced here (i believe) was actually...


So criticizing Royal for dropping 2-3 passes is OK, but criticizing Losman for throwing 2-3 bad passes is 'hating'??

The original post mentions 'dropped passes' and 'bad passes', not 'incompletions'. The follow-up post equates (or assumes, or mis-interprets) a 'bad pass' to equate to an 'incompletion' (which, in reality, they are not equal), then formulates an opinion on another poster's intelligence based on the false assumption/mis-interpretation.

Is that kind of response really accurate, or necessary? What does it add to the discussion? Which comment is more representative of 'hating'?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

<!-- / message -->

[Yasgur's Farm]

Here's the perfect example of what a hater will do. It should be noted that Bling is a troll... not a hater.
There we go. So his supporting cast is enough for him to be 13 TD's less than Palmer. Excuse.


Just admit it: Losman isn't as good as Palmer, Manning, Brees, Brady, McNabb. He's in the league of Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Charlie Frye. He's a tad less than Joey Harrington.He'll puke up a statement or 2 which may or may not be true. He'll provide no basis for the puke puddle... But if it's not scraped up with facts, it lies there smelling and festering.

Bling... You were already owned on this when you listed a bunch least week... Remember this?

Did you step in something? What are you basing that on? Obviously not stats!!

Here's a few stats that are not contingent on playing time...

(6) Carr - 69.5% (1), 89.5 pr (1), 6.65 ypa (4)
(8) Losman - 62.6 (3)%, 85.1 pr (2), 7.02 ypa (3)
(10) Kitna - 62.1% (4), 80.0 pr (4), 7.12 ypa (2)
(11) Roethlisberger - 62.7% (2), 75.8 pr (8), 7.57 ypa (1)
(18) Favre - 56.7% (9), 80.1 pr (3), 6.45 ypa (6)
(18) McNair - 61.2% (5), 78.1 pr (6), 6.34 ypa (7)
(19) Leftwich - 59.0% (6), 79.0 pr (5), 6.33 ypa (8)
(20) Eli Manning - 57.8% (8), 77.5 pr (7), 6.59 ypa (5)
(25) Harrington - 58.5% (7), 71.6 pr (9), 6.05 ypa (9)

Well looky there... Out of the 8 QB's you mentioned... JP would be just behind Carr for the lead. :respect:

Have a look who resides in the basement. :oops:

Trolling is best done in a boat.Are you sure you wanna go this route again?

[HHURRICANE]

yeah....there isn't a Licker with the balls to answer the question yet.

I'll answer it. I have criticized JP this year plenty. I ripped him after the Lions Game. Ripped him. I also criticized Fletcher a ton going into the season and thought he should be gone. I was wrong. The difference is that you and others can't admit when you are wrong about things. JP has played 2 solid games. SOLID. He's ranked 5th in the NFL for 4th Qtr. perfromance aginst all other QB's. All you have to do is admit that he's improving and be objective about things.

Hard to do isn't it?!

[Romes]

It truly amazes me that anyone that dares support JP Losman is labeled a 'licker' and a 'non-realist', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is not held responsible.

Why??


It goes both ways. what bothers me are the people, and they are few (inet and gflu, notice how they haven't been around this week), that root for JP to fail. that makes no sense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That scares me, Jim Kelly was calling his own plays from day one.:ill:
Jim Kelly was also one of the greatest QBs of all time.
Jim Kelly also starred in a great passing league the USFL before he even got here.
Jim Kelly went to a big time school.

Lets not compare JP to Jim.

[Earthquake Enyart]

let me expand on this just a little
Super Bowl XXX...Cowboys-Steelers
2 picks thrown to Larry Brown by O'Donnell
O'Donnell got ripped to shreds by Steelers fans at the bar I was hanging out at back then...some of them even going so far as to say that he did it on purpose..however...neither of those picks was purely his fault
1 got away from him...bad pass.....it didn't get away cleanly, as I remember
the other...Yancy Thigpen was supposed to cut one way in his break....and he cut the other way..the WR ran the wrong route...yet the QB was getting the blame...that's a lack of common sense
And what happened to Neil O'Donnell?

Is he up for the HOF this year?

[TacklingDummy]

Will you just drop dead already, for crying out loud.



In my best Philster voice.............Layoff the personal attacks....TOS violation

I have just as good of question as Yardrat had to start this thread.

Why do most personal attacks on here come from what some people would call a JP homer/licker?

[eyedog]

Do you ever look back and realize TD that just about everything football related you've spouted off about has turned out to be wrong ?????

[TacklingDummy]

It goes both ways. what bothers me are the people, and they are few (inet and gflu, notice how they haven't been around this week), that root for JP to fail. that makes no sense.

GFLuNEEDit is banned. How's he suppose to come around? :news:

[TacklingDummy]

Do you ever look back and realize TD that just about everything football related you've spouted off about has turned out to be wrong ?????

It was? I think not.

DF= Better QB to lead the Bills
RJ=Bum
GW=Bum
TD=Bum
Pro-Clements= check
JP= Bum (jury still out, could still go either way)
MM= Bum

[M]

I'm not above criticizing players on the team. But when the same people say the same thing about the same player, over and over again, it gets old. I have never been a big fan of Reed but he's played decent this year so I've kept my mouth shut. I've also criticized Gandy when he was at LT but he's played decent at LG so I'm over it.

[eyedog]

GW, TD, @ MM are givens.
Wrong about Losman.
I'll give you credit for Clements.

[TacklingDummy]

Wrong about Losman.


How can I be wrong about Losman?

Saying the jury is still out would be correct. If you want to judge JP by his career so far then he is a bum. If you want to go by the last 2 games then maybe JP can make something of himself. That's why I say the jury is still out.

I think he'll end up being a bum but maybe he won't.

And if im wrong then great. We won't have to draft a QB next year and we can draft a run stuffer with the first pick.

[justasportsfan]

...that anyone that dares critcize JP Losman is labeled a 'hater' and a 'non-Bills fan', yet every other player on the team (McGahee, Spikes, Clements...right down the line) is fair game.

Why??
huge difference between criticizing and hating. TDummy is a hater so is Sab.
TDummy points out that INT that Royals recovers and once he gets owned after someone pointed out he got hit by his own OL, he switches to a game from weeks ago because he didn't have an answer to his first hate post. Desperately finding things to pin on JP is being a hater.

People who come here and have nothing else to say either than JP sux are nothing but haters. At least be objective about criticizing JP.

[eyedog]

Wrong about JP in regards to Holcomb. Anyone who really thought Holcomb was the answer over JP in August, with this team, was missing the boat.

[Romes]

GFLuNEEDit is banned. How's he suppose to come around? :news:

did not know that. i must have missed the memo.

[Romes]

I can't fault the so called "haters" for their opinions. I have confidence in JP but its mostly based on hope of not having to endure 7-9/6-10 seasons for the next 5 years. The last 3-4 weeks have been promising but its just that: 3-4 weeks.

If guys like TD and Sab are waiting for JP to perform in the playoffs or for longer term during the season before they like the kid then thats fine. They are entitled to their opinion. I think the term "hater" is used just like the term "licker" to rile people up and it seems to work for the most part.

[ICE74129]

Haters blame Losman for everything short of global warming it seems and refuse to give credit when it's due...even going so far as to find negatives in the good

I'm pretty sure there are few, if any, people here who are fans of JP only :rolleyes:

Exactly.

[mybills]

huge difference between criticizing and hating. TDummy is a hater so is Sab.

I can only dedicate my sig to one of them, so I chose the bigger one. :D

[TacklingDummy]

Wrong about JP in regards to Holcomb. Anyone who really thought Holcomb was the answer over JP in August, with this team, was missing the boat.

Umm, have I been calling for Holcomb to be the stater since the first pre-season game? Ummm, no. I guess I was right again.

Infact, some of the so called lickers were calling for JP to be benched. And this so called "hater" was one of the ones defending JP and saying he should not be benched and should start all year.

[eyedog]

Umm, have I been calling for Holcomb to be the stater since the first pre-season game? Ummm, no. I guess I was right again.

Infact, some of the so called lickers were calling for JP to be benched. And this so called "hater" was one of the ones defending JP and saying he should not be benched and should start all year.

If in fact that is your stance I stand corrected. I thought you were one of those yelling to start Holcomb during camp.

[TacklingDummy]

If in fact that is your stance I stand corrected. I thought you were one of those yelling to start Holcomb during camp.

If KH was the best option. It was clear after the first mini camp game that Holcomb sucked. Might as well go with the guy who might have a chance to be good.

[THATHURMANATOR]

enough already guys.
No player is immune to criticism, just don't make it a personal crusade ok?

How does that sound?

[Earthquake Enyart]

enough already guys.
No player is immune to criticism, just don't make it a personal crusade ok?

How does that sound?
NALL BALL BABY!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

NALL BALL BABY!!
You still want that?