Cincinnati did it. So did Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

[Earthquake Enyart]

You want the Bills to stay?

Build a new stadium on the lakefront. Stat.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would LOVE IT!

[Earthquake Enyart]

MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

EE if I could I would!
Phil and Mike would complain though because they would be in traffic for an extra 20 mins.... :ill:

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't disagree. I am worried about what will happen when a new stadium is needed. Will the area pay for it? Can the area pay for it?

And please, for the love of God, no dome.

[mybills]

Easier said, than done.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't disagree. I am worried about what will happen when a new stadium is needed. Will the area pay for it? Can the area pay for it?

And please, for the love of God, no dome.
All those other POS cities I listed (and more) got it done.

You guys need to get rid of that loser attitude and make things happen.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hey, I agree. This area is way too down on itself, which is one reason why we never improve. As an area, we are very self-victimizing.

We need to get the negative message people out of positions of power. We need people that wil take sometimes unpopular stances and go with it. We need to ignore the 'vocal minority' groups that oppose every attempt to make the area better and more profitable.

Sadly many of those in charge and the local media beat the drum loudly about how weak and picked on we are.

[THATHURMANATOR]

All those other POS cities I listed (and more) got it done.

You guys need to get rid of that loser attitude and make things happen.
:bf1:
Hell Pittsburgh is having pretty much the same fiscal problems we are but they found the money to build the football and baseball stadium.

Enough with this loser attitude. I think it is all the cynical fogies around here. The new generation needs to step in.

[Earthquake Enyart]

:bf1:
Hell Pittsburgh is having pretty much the same fiscal problems we are but they found the money to build the football and baseball stadium.

Enough with this loser attitude. I think it is all the cynical fogies around here. The new generation needs to step in.
All these places are crappy! And they got it done!

[justasportsfan]

I agree. Qb's however will hate playing by the lake due to winds unless it's a dome.

[Earthquake Enyart]

ENOUGH WITH ALL THE EXCUSES.

DON"T COME CRYING TO ME WHEN THE BILLS LEAVE! :mad:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Byron Brown ran on the campaign partly of building a new stadium downtown. His campaign signs looked like Bills insignias. I know people are looking at doing it.

HOWEVER
Why are they putting in a new Jumbotron and ribbon at the Ralph if they want to build a new stadium?

[ICE74129]

You want the Bills to stay?

Build a new stadium on the lakefront. Stat.

You want the Bills to stay? Tell ralph wilson to spend a ton of money this offseason..STAT!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Byron Brown ran on the campaign partly of building a new stadium downtown. His campaign signs looked like Bills insignias. I know people are looking at doing it.

HOWEVER
Why are they putting in a new Jumbotron and ribbon at the Ralph if they want to build a new stadium?
That's peanuts. They can move them when they move out.

[Dr. Lecter]

You want the Bills to stay? Tell ralph wilson to spend a ton of money this offseason..STAT!

Money does not buld championships.

[ICE74129]

BTW Fans and business aren't going to be willing to be taxed further when the owner won't spend the money it takes to field a WINNING team. It will take Ralph fielding a WINNER then we can start talking new stadium

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's peanuts. They can move them when they move out.
Good point

[Dr. Lecter]

That's peanuts. They can move them when they move out.

Exactly. They are not making any long term permanent improvements. Not to mention the 20 million is nothing when compared to the cost of a new stadium.

[THATHURMANATOR]

BTW Fans and business aren't going to be willing to be taxed further when the owner won't spend the money it takes to field a WINNING team. It will take Ralph fielding a WINNER then we can start talking new stadium
To keep the team I would!

[Earthquake Enyart]

BTW Fans and business aren't going to be willing to be taxed further when the owner won't spend the money it takes to field a WINNING team. It will take Ralph fielding a WINNER then we can start talking new stadium
Loser attitude.

[ICE74129]

Money does not buld championships. Sure it does if done right. 33 mill available, some damn good FA's out there that we can get if we OUT BID and make the contracts more attractive.

We won't win a championship with nothing but street FA's. Even NE spent some money to get top talent. Only after they did and started winning did better FA's come to them willing to take less to have a shot at a ring.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly. They are not making any long term permanent improvements. Not to mention the 20 million is nothing when compared to the cost of a new stadium.
You are right. They can just bring it along to the new stadium if need be.

EE IS SO SMART! :D

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sure it does if done right. 33 mill available, some damn good FA's out there that we can get if we OUT BID and make the contracts more attractive.

We won't win a championship with nothing but street FA's. Even NE spent some money to get top talent. Only after they did and started winning did better FA's come to them willing to take less to have a shot at a ring.
I think first keep our inside talent(Clements for 1) then sign best available on O and D lines.

[ICE74129]

Loser attitude.

Field a winner first, then you get the stadium. Sorry but the REALITY is fans aren't going to be taxed further for a crap team.

you are right on one point only....its time for the excuses to stop...coming from Ralph Wilson. Either he has the money to field a winner or he doesn't. If not, time to find a new owner

[Dr. Lecter]

Sure it does if done right. 33 mill available, some damn good FA's out there that we can get if we OUT BID and make the contracts more attractive.

We won't win a championship with nothing but street FA's. Even NE spent some money to get top talent. Only after they did and started winning did better FA's come to them willing to take less to have a shot at a ring.

But they did not go out and over spend for big names that are often over-rated.

Just spending blindly is not the answer. Guys like Steinbach, a mid-high priced guard are the type sof players you go after.

(and re-sgining Nate)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Field a winner first, then you get the stadium. Sorry but the REALITY is fans aren't going to be taxed further for a crap team.

you are right on one point only....its time for the excuses to stop...coming from Ralph Wilson. Either he has the money to field a winner or he doesn't. If not, time to find a new owner
You live in Tulsa how do you know what Buffalo will except? I can pretty much tell you that the city would pay extra taxes on an 0-16 team to keep the Bills. They are our heart and sole.

[ICE74129]

I think first keep our inside talent(Clements for 1) then sign best available on O and D lines.

clements talent doesn't = the money he wants. It would be nice if it did. OL, DL, #2 WR, CB, LB. tons of cap room available, clear cut needs. No excuses

[THATHURMANATOR]

But they did not go out and over spend for big names that are often over-rated.

Just spending blindly is not the answer. Guys like Steinbach, a mid-high priced guard are the type sof players you go after.

(and re-sgining Nate)
Steinbach would look great at right guard! :hi5:

[ICE74129]

You live in Tulsa how do you know what Buffalo will except? I can pretty much tell you that the city would pay extra taxes on an 0-16 team to keep the Bills. They are our heart and sole.

Don't make me get into this with you again. I talk with TONS that LEFT BUFFALO. I know what goes on there, been there many times and still talk with friends there. They aren't going to pass anything that taxes them further, for a new stadium with the current state of the team. Maybe YOU and a few vocal others will, but the meat of them wont.

Hell they can't afford the lowest ticket prices in the NFL now as is, let alone be taxed further.

[LtBillsFan66]

Git er done.

[THATHURMANATOR]

clements talent doesn't = the money he wants. It would be nice if it did. OL, DL, #2 WR, CB, LB. tons of cap room available, clear cut needs. No excuses
Now you are contradicting yourself. You want them to spend and be fickle. Pretty much all top notch guys want more than they are worth...

[Earthquake Enyart]

Don't make me get into this with you again. I talk with TONS that LEFT BUFFALO. I know what goes on there, been there many times and still talk with friends there. They aren't going to pass anything that taxes them further, for a new stadium with the current state of the team. Maybe YOU and a few vocal others will, but the meat of them wont.

Hell they can't afford the lowest ticket prices in the NFL now as is, let alone be taxed further.
This is why Baltimore. Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis will still have NFL teams and Buffalo won't.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Don't make me get into this with you again. I talk with TONS that LEFT BUFFALO. I know what goes on there, been there many times and still talk with friends there. They aren't going to pass anything that taxes them further, for a new stadium with the current state of the team. Maybe YOU and a few vocal others will, but the meat of them wont.

Hell they can't afford the lowest ticket prices in the NFL now as is, let alone be taxed further.
Yes you are talking about the negative Nellies that couldn't stick it out. Of course they have a negative attitude.

I don't want to get into anything with you ICE. I am just saying. When did those people leave? When have you been here last? Their opinions could be dated.

I do agree to a certain degree. No one WANTS to get taxed. Some people cant afford to be taxed. We would have to see the plan first.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Taxes, scmaxes.

Maybe if they built something there, more people would have jobs to pay more taxes.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Taxes, scmaxes.

Maybe if they built something there, more people would have jobs to pay more taxes.
:hi5:

[Dr. Lecter]

You would think so wouldn't you?

Like I said, ignoe the people who ***** about everything. The damn courts let people block the new bridge, casinos. hotels, etc. because they make noise and take a smal vocal minority and scream like fools.

Ignore them and the damn public sector unions that are runing the area and get **** done.

[Dr. Lecter]

To do so, Thurm and I shoudl be in charge of the are, btw.

[Earthquake Enyart]

They are always building something in Chicago. This new Millenium Park went millions of dollars over budget. They've expanded the convention center 10 times. They totally rebuilt Soldier Field and built a new Comiskey Park. Now they have a massive 2-3 year project where they are tearing up the Dan Ryan expressway which is the main artery into the city.

Every body is working and everybody is paying taxes.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would love a position of power to make change.

[Earthquake Enyart]

You've got to get everybody on board. One hand washes the other. The unions get plenty of high paying jobs. Banks make money, construction companies make money.

Sure, all the mayor's buddies are getting rich, but crap gets done around here.

[Earthquake Enyart]

PEOPLE....

FREAKING CINCINNATI AND CLEVELAND GOT IT DONE. LET"S GO!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Seriously! Pittsburgh is even worse than Cleveland if you ask me!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Ever been to Indy? Talk about a COWTOWN!!

[FinFaninBuffalo]

You live in Tulsa how do you know what Buffalo will except? I can pretty much tell you that the city would pay extra taxes on an 0-16 team to keep the Bills. They are our heart and sole.

I wouldn't pay a nickle to keep the Bills ion Buffalo. They haven't been able to fill the stadium lately and you think people will pay taxes? Get a grip. If they put up a referendum to build a stadium at tax payer expense for vote in Erie County, I gurarantee it gets shot down. No way in hell it passes.

Funding from New York State is the only way to get it done. And that would only work because people are too stupid to realize that it would still raise their taxes.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I wouldn't pay a nickle to keep the Bills ion Buffalo. They haven't been able to fill the stadium lately and you think people will pay taxes? Get a grip. If they put up a referendum to build a stadium at tax payer expense for vote in Erie County, I gurarantee it gets shot down. No way in hell it passes.

Funding from New York State is the only way to get it done. And that would only work because people are too stupid to realize that it would still raise their taxes.
Yes because you are one of those guys that became a Fin fan to piss off everyone else. I would expect you to have this opinion.

I think if the Bills staying or leaving was hanging in the balance it passes no problem.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Would you still be a Fins fan if there were no more Bills fans to annoy?

[justasportsfan]

Build the stadium in NIagara falls. More people will fly to watch the games . Besides ,The US side is pathetic.

[ublinkwescore]

Money does not buld championships.

The 49ers might disagree with you on that...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Build the stadium in NIagara falls. More people will fly to watch the games . Besides ,The US side is pathetic.
HORRENDOUS idea.

[justasportsfan]

HORRENDOUS idea. stop thinking about what you want instead of what's best to keep the team in WNY. More cannucks will watch the games. More bills fans from all over the country will fly their entire family including opposing team fans. MOre businesses for locals. I mean Niagara is what 15 mins. away from buffalo? Who the hell wants to spend the night in Orchard Park anyways?

[Dr. Lecter]

The 49ers might disagree with you on that...
The Redskins would not.

[THATHURMANATOR]

stop thinking about what you want instead of what's best to keep the team in WNY. More cannucks will watch the games. More bills fans from all over the country will fly their entire family including opposing team fans. MOre businesses for locals. I mean Niagara is what 15 mins. away from buffalo? Who the hell wants to spend the night in Orchard Park anyways.
That is why the stadium will be in downtown Buffalo. Why would you put it in Canada? How would NYS fund a stadium in Canada? If Niagara Falls is such a draw it is only 15 mins from DT Buffalo. Bad Idea.

[raphael120]

its disgusting, and its the same in pittsburgh, how much waterfront property is there just rotting away with old steel mills/ports/rusting old ships, it's rediculous. i rememeber driving up from pittsburgh going to canada and me and my friends drove through buffalo on...90 i believe? but we saw lake erie and all the old factories just rusting there, needs to be cleaned up and put somethin there, i mean...damn

[THATHURMANATOR]

No more Canadians would watch games if the stadium was in Niagara falls Canada.

[THATHURMANATOR]

its disgusting, and its the same in pittsburgh, how much waterfront property is there just rotting away with old steel mills/ports/rusting old ships, it's rediculous. i rememeber driving up from pittsburgh going to canada and me and my friends drove through buffalo on...90 i believe? but we saw lake erie and all the old factories just rusting there, needs to be cleaned up and put somethin there, i mean...damn
Agreed!

[THATHURMANATOR]

We have this stupid argumen it seems like every couple months. It is obvious to me that a Stadium downtown Buffalo on the waterfront is the best option for the city and the team. How can people not see this?

[justasportsfan]

That is why the stadium will be in downtown Buffalo. Why would you put it in Canada? How would NYS fund a stadium in Canada? If Niagara Falls is such a draw it is only 15 mins from DT Buffalo. Bad Idea.
Downtown? I guess it would help the city but who the hell wants to see buffalo if you're a non local? I mean this SD and the Jags game was a bad reflection of the locals who couldn't sell out. If they can't go and watch the games we need to attract non-locals to fly in. NIagara falls would be a great way for them to bring their family over as a planned vacation .

[THATHURMANATOR]

Downtown? I guess it would help the city but who the hell wants to see buffalo if you're a non local? I mean this SD and the Jags game was a bad reflection of the locals who couldn't sell out. If they can't go and watch the games we need to attract non-locals to fly in. NIagara falls would be a great way for them to bring their family over as a planned vacation .
Do you really think that a ton of Non locals(who aren't former Buffalonians) will come to a Bills game just because the stadium is in Niagara Falls? NO WAY. Who wants non fans to come to games anyways? If we got a new stadium it would be 65k at most and it would sell out every game for the first 5 years just for the fact that it is a new stadium, even if ticket prices were more.

[PECKERWOOD]

This isn't going to happen for awhile. Pataki just gave the Bill's around 20 million smackers in stadium renovations.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You gotta remember the team is the Buffalo Bills, why wouldn't the new stadium be built in the city of Buffalo? Why wouldn't they use the team to improve the city as a whole? It makes no sense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This isn't going to happen for awhile. Pataki just gave the Bill's around 20 million smackers in stadium renovations.
We covered this already. read page one.

[PECKERWOOD]

The NFL sure doesn't want this to happen. It's like marrying a chick you don't like.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The NFL sure doesn't want this to happen. It's like marrying a chick you don't like.
Doesn't want what?

This is a key region for the league.

[PECKERWOOD]

Doesn't want what?

This is a key region for the league.

I think the NFL would like to see the Bills move, jmo though. We have one of the smallest markets in the league, and if our games continue to be blacked out, we will be moved when Ralph dies, indefinately.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think the NFL would like to see the Bills move, jmo though. We have one of the smallest markets in the league, and if our games continue to be blacked out, we will be moved when Ralph dies, indefinately.
If you go like 50 miles in each direction it is a large amount of people to pull from. Yes the metro Buffalo area is small but the area has a lot of people.

[Dr. Lecter]

If you go like 50 miles in each direction it is a large amount of people to pull from. Yes the metro Buffalo area is small but the area has a lot of people.

Which is why downtown MIGHT not be the best idea. The team is named 'Buffalo', but draws fans from all over.

I am not syaing downtown is not a good idea, just that is is not a slam dunk.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Which is why downtown MIGHT not be the best idea. The team is named 'Buffalo', but draws fans from all over.

I am not syaing downtown is not a good idea, just that is is not a slam dunk.
Again Buffalo is the CENTER point of the 50 miles in each direction. How is that not the best spot? It makes us closer the southern Canadians. Closer to Rochester/Syracuse etc. We made the mistake of not putting the stadium downtown in 1970 why do it again.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Would you still be a Fins fan if there were no more Bills fans to annoy?

I'm not a Fins fan to annoy Bills fans, but it is a great bonus.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm not a Fins fan to annoy Bills fans, but it is a great bonus.
Yes you are. Don't kid yourself.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Again Buffalo is the CENTER point of the 50 miles in each direction. How is that not the best spot? It makes us closer the southern Canadians. Closer to Rochester/Syracuse etc. We made the mistake of not putting the stadium downtown in 1970 why do it again.

Don't forget the the stupid politicians in this area also agreed to build a stadium in LANCASTER and then stiffed the developer. 20 years later, they lost a law suit and had to pay the original developer millions of dollars.

Buffalo will not improve until we clear out the old school polititians, get control of the labor unions, and reduce the size of the government to rational levels. Nobody in power seems the least bit interested in doing those things. Erie County now has a control board. They are not going to approve funding for a new stadium. Taxes are already too high in the area.

[justasportsfan]

You gotta remember the team is the Buffalo Bills, why wouldn't the new stadium be built in the city of Buffalo? Why wouldn't they use the team to improve the city as a whole? It makes no sense.the dolphins do not play in Miami

[justasportsfan]

Do you really think that a ton of Non locals(who aren't former Buffalonians) will come to a Bills game just because the stadium is in Niagara Falls? NO WAY. Who wants non fans to come to games anyways? If we got a new stadium it would be 65k at most and it would sell out every game for the first 5 years just for the fact that it is a new stadium, even if ticket prices were more.
If I had only a certain amount of vacation days, I wouldn't take them to buffalo. Might as well watch the game when buffalo goes to Miami because of the weather and my family would enjoy their time too and not have to be subject to watch the game if they are not into the bills. Doing that, I generate more revenue for local businesses.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Don't forget the the stupid politicians in this area also agreed to build a stadium in LANCASTER and then stiffed the developer. 20 years later, they lost a law suit and had to pay the original developer millions of dollars.

Buffalo will not improve until we clear out the old school polititians, get control of the labor unions, and reduce the size of the government to rational levels. Nobody in power seems the least bit interested in doing those things. Erie County now has a control board. They are not going to approve funding for a new stadium. Taxes are already too high in the area.
This I agree with and are these same people from 30 years still in charge? NO.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

You gotta remember the team is the Buffalo Bills, why wouldn't the new stadium be built in the city of Buffalo? Why wouldn't they use the team to improve the city as a whole? It makes no sense.

Because the polititians don't care what makes sense. Why would it take 20 years to decide how to expand the peace bridge? Why is the waterfront a joke? Why did they close downtown to auto traffic by putting in a metro that didn't go anywhere? Why did they cover the waterfront with an elevated highway? Why has it taken 2 years to get anything done on the casino?

[Earthquake Enyart]

A downtown stadium does more for Buffalo than it does for the Bills.

Someone needs to wake the F up and figure that out.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If I had only a certain amount of vacation days, I wouldn't take them to buffalo. Might as well watch the game when buffalo goes to Miami because of the weather and my family would enjoy their time too and not have to be subject to watch the game if they are not into the bills. Doing that, I generate more revenue for local businesses.
I dont even know what you are talking about. We aren't getting non Bills fans that don't live in the area coming to games either way. It would be a waste to market the team to those people.

[THATHURMANATOR]

A downtown stadium does more for Buffalo than it does for the Bills.

Someone needs to wake the F up and figure that out.
YEP!

[FinFaninBuffalo]

This I agree with and are these same people from 30 years still in charge? NO.

No, but the system is still the same. We are still run by the labor unions. Aren't we still trying to figure out how to develop the waterfront and the peace bridge?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because the polititians don't care what makes sense. Why would it take 20 years to decide how to expand the peace bridge? Why is the waterfront a joke? Why did they close downtown to auto traffic by putting in a metro that didn't go anywhere? Why did they cover the waterfront with an elevated highway? Why has it taken 2 years to get anything done on the casino?
You are preaching to the choir man. Problem is it seems that we use this as an excuse. Well the politicians are corrupt... Nothing will get done..... THIS IS BULL ****! We need to hold people accountable. How can we do this? We need to get things done! I am sick of this crap.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No, but the system is still the same. We are still run by the labor unions. Aren't we still trying to figure out how to develop the waterfront and the peace bridge?
Yes. At least Higgins finally got the NFTA to sell the land on the waterfront so something finally can be done.

[justasportsfan]

I dont even know what you are talking about. We aren't getting non Bills fans that don't live in the area coming to games either way. It would be a waste to market the team to those people.
we need to attract people to come watch the games because locals alone cannot support the team. We need non locals to fly over. Like I said, If I wasn't local, I'd rather fly to miami where I can do more than just watch the bills because there's more than just the game. As much as I love WNY there's nothing else to do.

If you're a chargers fan, would you come to buffalo or would you rather watch the chargers vs. fins? I say fins because I can also enjoy SO. Beach.

[Patrick76777]

You know what’s funny Thurm? 20 years ago when I was 10 this topic came up all the time. It was just a matter of time before they left town. I’ve heard that before the Ralph was built, the talk was that the team was going to Seattle. But here we are, 30 and 20 years later and we have a football team. But yet they’re still talking about how any day now, it’s going to happen.

In another 20 years, we’ll be hearing the same thing but we’ll still have a team. Gotta love this town. So gloom and doom.

[THATHURMANATOR]

we need to attract people to come watch the games because locals alone cannot support the team. We need non locals to fly over. Like I said, If I wasn't local, I'd rather fly to miami where I can do more than just watch the bills because there's more than just the game. As much as I love WNY there's nothing else to do.

If you're a chargers fan, would you come to buffalo or would you rather watch the chargers vs. fins? I say fins because I can also enjoy SO. Beach.
That isn't happening ever. ESPECIALLY for teams far from here(and warm weather teams).
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Cincy
NY jets
Pats
NY Giants
All those teams have large contingencies of fans that come in to the Ralph when we play them.

[Patrick76777]

we need to attract people to come watch the games because locals alone cannot support the team. We need non locals to fly over. Like I said, If I wasn't local, I'd rather fly to miami where I can do more than just watch the bills because there's more than just the game. As much as I love WNY there's nothing else to do.

If you're a chargers fan, would you come to buffalo or would you rather watch the chargers vs. fins? I say fins because I can also enjoy SO. Beach.


KC has season ticket holders froms something like 25 States!

Are you telling me that the Giants don't have season ticket holders from Jersey, PA, Conn, Vermont and such.

What about the Pats. That whole stadium is filled with people from the City of Boston?

[THATHURMANATOR]

You know what’s funny Thurm? 20 years ago when I was 10 this topic came up all the time. It was just a matter of time before they left town. I’ve heard that before the Ralph was built, the talk was that the team was going to Seattle. But here we are, 30 and 20 years later and we have a football team. But yet they’re still talking about how any day now, it’s going to happen.

In another 20 years, we’ll be hearing the same thing but we’ll still have a team. Gotta love this town. So gloom and doom.
It is so negative it makes me SICK!

[justasportsfan]

That isn't happening ever. ESPECIALLY for teams far from here(and warm weather teams).
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Cincy
NY jets
Pats
NY Giants
All those teams have large contingencies of fans that come in to the Ralph when we play them.
you are talking about large market teams taht can also drive to buffalo. What if they were from the West coast? No thanks, I'd rather spend my money in Miami when the bills play the fins.

[justasportsfan]

KC has season ticket holders froms something like 25 States!

Are you telling me that the Giants don't have season ticket holders from Jersey, PA, Conn, Vermont and such.

What about the Pats. That whole stadium is filled with people from the City of Boston?
the bills don't have that kind of fanbase. If we did we wouldn't have a problem selling out the jags and this weekends game. There will always be fans waiting for tickets.

I'm just talking from a different pespective." IF I had a family and was not local. "

[THATHURMANATOR]

you are talking about large market teams taht can also drive to buffalo. What if they were from the West coast? No thanks, I'd rather spend my money in Miami when the bills play the fins.
Exactly my point. We are NEVER going to draw from west coast teams or Atlanta, Dallas, Washington, Houston, Tennesee etc. Why put the Stadium in Niagara Falls Canada so they STILL won't come....

[justasportsfan]

Exactly my point. We are NEVER going to draw from west coast teams or Atlanta, Dallas, Washington, Houston, Tennesee etc. Why put the Stadium in Niagara Falls Canada so they STILL won't come....
THurm I NEVER said CAnada. Niagara falls is also part of the US.

[justasportsfan]

I think Niagara would be better than a wysman who suggested Batavia.

[THATHURMANATOR]

THurm I NEVER said CAnada. Niagara falls is also part of the US.
:puke: Niagara falls US is a crap hole! NO THANKS! I would be LIVID if a new stadium was built and it wasn't in DT Buffalo.

[justasportsfan]

:puke: Niagara falls US is a crap hole! NO THANKS! I would be LIVID if a new stadium was built and it wasn't in DT Buffalo.

When the game is telecast nationwide, they don't show video clips of buffalo. They show video clips of Niagara.


Now I know you're loyal to the city of buffalo but don't be a homer about it, from a tourists standpoint it has NOTHING to offer compared to other cities.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think Niagara would be better than a wysman who suggested Batavia.
Actually I disagree. NF US would be moving it even further from our Rochester/Syracuse base, which is our most loyal non Buffalo metro fan base. Why do that. Plus NF US has nothing going on besides one casino.

[THATHURMANATOR]

When the game is telecast nationwide, they don't show video clips of buffalo. They show video clips of Niagara.


Now I know you're loyal to the city of buffalo but don't be a homer about it, from a tourists standpoint it has NOTHING to offer compared to other cities.
Yeah NF Canada. Have you ever been to NF US?

I am not being a homer here. I see where you were going with Niagara Falls but only NF Canada. I was against it because it would mean the team would be in a different country. NF US makes absolutly 0 Sense.

Buffalo has as much to offer as pretty much any city in the Northeast, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Cleveland(save the rockandroll HOF crap it isn't that great)Indy etc. We will never be NYC, or Chicago so stop worrying about that. We need to start somewhere.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This argument MADDENS ME!

[justasportsfan]

Actually I disagree. NF US would be moving it even further from our Rochester/Syracuse base, which is our most loyal non Buffalo metro fan base. Why do that. Plus NF US has nothing going on besides one casino.


you think driving an extra 15 mins is gonna bother us? I drive all the way to Toronto to party.

Niagara falls is known Worldwide. Some of the players don't even know where buffalo is. Ask Sape.

[justasportsfan]

This argument MADDENS ME! It's about the bills and not the city of buffalo. If the locals alone didn't have a problem selling out or the team wasn't in trouble , we wouldn't have this discussion. I care about the bills I'm not the enemy here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you think driving an extra 15 mins is gonna bother us? I drive all the way to Toronto to party.

Niagara falls is known Worldwide. Some of the players don't even know where buffalo is. Ask Sape.
I can't believe we would even be arguing about this. I usually agree with you on all accounts but not here. In my mind you aren't making sense. NO ONE from the cities I have already mentioned are coming to Buffalo regardless if we built the greatest stadium of all time and no matter where we built it. We need to focus on our base of fans and cator to them. Since NF is so close to DT people can go there in 15 mins if they really want to.

I wouldn't worry about if some players don't know where Buffalo is half of them are borderline ******s who have been pushed through the academic system because they can play ball.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's about the bills and not the city of buffalo.
EXACTLY!!! They go hand in hand man!

[justasportsfan]

I can't believe we would even be arguing about this. I usually agree with you on all accounts but not here. In my mind you aren't making sense. NO ONE from the cities I have already mentioned are coming to Buffalo regardless if we built the greatest stadium of all time and no matter where we built it. We need to focus on our base of fans and cator to them. Since NF is so close to DT people can go there in 15 mins if they really want to.

I wouldn't worry about if some players don't know where Buffalo is half of them are borderline ******s who have been pushed through the academic system because they can play ball.
You aren't seeing my point in all of this. It's my way of trying to find ways to have people come to see the bills and save the team. That's my intention. Just trying to see what the pro and cons are IF the stadium was built in NF.

If you don't like it , fine. Let's move it to BEAVER Island :snicker:

[Michael82]

I'm for it, as long as it includes some big lots for tailgating. I don't want to lose the best part about a gameday experience. I also will take ticket increases if it keeps the team here. :up:

[justasportsfan]

I'm for it, as long as it includes some big lots for tailgating. I don't want to lose the best part about a gameday experience. I also will take ticket increases if it keeps the team here. :up:did you get the PM?

[dplus47]

NO ONE from the cities I have already mentioned are coming to Buffalo regardless if we built the greatest stadium of all time and no matter where we built it. We need to focus on our base of fans and cator to them. Since NF is so close to DT people can go there in 15 mins if they really want to.



i would fly from socal to see a game in the greatest stadium of all time. just sayin'; it might be cool if you could get that done...

i haven't been to downtown buffalo since i was way too young to remember, but i am a fan of developing downtown areas. stadiums can be a big part of that. of the places mentioned, i think baltimore and cleveland have done the best jobs. many clevelanders i know used to think of themselves as living in a crappy city, but i don't sense that anymore. i have enjoyed all my recent trips to cleveland. and baltimore has a lot of interesting things to do along the waterfront, a lot of shopping and dining, and a lot of delicious crabs to eat. surely buffalo could create an interesting place for families to go.

as for the niagara falls thing, couldn't the team just play in buffalo and do a better job of selling the city's proximity to the falls?

[Earthquake Enyart]

I'm for it, as long as it includes some big lots for tailgating. I don't want to lose the best part about a gameday experience. I also will take ticket increases if it keeps the team here. :up:
How about a PSL to help pay for the stadium?

[Dr. Lecter]

I would hate it, but depending on the size would be willing to pay it.

I am paying $250 next year just to move back to the 50.

[justasportsfan]

as for the niagara falls thing, couldn't the team just play in buffalo and do a better job of selling the city's proximity to the falls?that's a posibility. Problem is, NF US side blows and the passport requirement to cross through the border could be a problem. Maybe Marv can rehire Donahoe since he's great at selling us lies and empty promises.

[Earthquake Enyart]

that's a posibility. Problem is, NF US side blows and the passport requirement to cross through the border could be a problem. Maybe Marv can rehire Donahoe since he's great at selling us lies and empty promises.
FORGET ABOUT NIAGARA FALLS!!

People will go there for gambling and strippers.

[justasportsfan]

More local revenue.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You aren't seeing my point in all of this. It's my way of trying to find ways to have people come to see the bills and save the team. That's my intention. Just trying to see what the pro and cons are IF the stadium was built in NF.

If you don't like it , fine. Let's move it to BEAVER Island :snicker:
Justa I totally do see your intentions. I just think they are misguided. I don't think you are focusing your efforts in the right place. We need to focus on the base fans and 1 level of periphery fans. There is well more than enough of those fans to sell out games. I do love your passion even if I disagree!

[THATHURMANATOR]

[/SIZE]
FORGET ABOUT NIAGARA FALLS!!

People will go there for gambling and strippers.
THANK YOU!

[dplus47]

[/size]
THANK YOU!

but how 'bout some bills' raincoats on the maid of the mist or something? (that one would have put me in a bind as a young fins fan visiting. maybe the bills' gear could be optional). or maybe strippers in white t-shirts promoting the bills? (on the maid of the mist, of course). maybe that one's not so family oriented, but strippers and gambling aren't all bad, and it's better than promoting underage drinking, right? (is canada's drinking age still younger?)

[FinFaninBuffalo]

If you don't like it , fine. Let's move it to BEAVER Island :snicker:

Best idea yet. I live walking distance from Beaver Island.

[Mitchy moo]

I like the idea and have mentioned it before. Having a waterfront is a blessing, use it.

[gr8slayer]

You gotta remember the team is the Buffalo Bills, why wouldn't the new stadium be built in the city of Buffalo? Why wouldn't they use the team to improve the city as a whole? It makes no sense.
Dallas is building its new stadium damn near a hour away.

[justasportsfan]

The Buffalo BEAVERS :ill:

[gr8slayer]

I think its funny that anytime they show a picture outside the stadium on T.V. its always of Niagra Falls, never of Buffalo.

[Michael82]

I think its funny that anytime they show a picture outside the stadium on T.V. its always of Niagra Falls, never of Buffalo.
I never realized that. Interesting point....

[THATHURMANATOR]

Interesting and meaningless at the same time. There are a lot of nice places they can show in Buffalo. The PMs producing the show just go for the easy lazy shot... Probably the same one from 10 years ago....

[gr8slayer]

I never realized that. Interesting point....
I have a friend living in Dallas from Buffalo. It pisses him off, every Sunday I get to hear "dammit, we are not in Niagra, were not even really close to Niagra1"

[THATHURMANATOR]

I have a friend living in Dallas from Buffalo. It pisses him off, every Sunday I get to hear "dammit, we are not in Niagra, were not even really close to Niagra1"
Well while we aren't Niagara falls he is wrong to say we aren't close because from Downtown Buffalo, Niagara falls is 20 minutes max away.

[The_Philster]

EE if I could I would!
Phil and Mike would complain though because they would be in traffic for an extra 20 mins.... :ill:
uhh..leave me out of that...we already resolved that months ago as far as I'm concerned

[The_Philster]

BTW Fans and business aren't going to be willing to be taxed further when the owner won't spend the money it takes to field a WINNING team. It will take Ralph fielding a WINNER then we can start talking new stadium
ICE...there's a salary cap in place these days...the Bills can't spend over it....face reality

[PECKERWOOD]

Let's make a list of the positive and negative effects. Here is a couple off the top of my head, please add to my list. :bandwagon

Positives:

• Would keep the team in Buffalo.
• Would create more job opportunities.
• If we built a dome stadium, we could host superbowls.

Negatives:

• This would cost alot of money.
• All the construction would slow down traffic in down town Buffalo.
• Would raise taxes significantly.

[The_Philster]

I think its funny that anytime they show a picture outside the stadium on T.V. its always of Niagra Falls, never of Buffalo.
Looks like selective viewing. Yeah, they show the Falls a lot, but I have seen downtown Buffalo pretty regularly as well...hell, most telecasts show a view at the Anchor Bar's kitchen

[The_Philster]

Let's make a list of the positive and negative effects. Here is a couple off the top of my head, please add to my list. :bandwagon

Positives:

• Would keep the team in Buffalo.
• Would create more job opportunities.
• If we built a dome stadium, we could host superbowls.

Negatives:

• This would cost alot of money.
• All the construction would slow down traffic in down town Buffalo.
• Would raise taxes significantly.
Domes..HELL NO!! A retractable roof facility is something I could live with...so the stadium would get more use...but keep the damn roof open during snowstorms

as far as construction slowing down traffic...the area south of HSBC Arena, a good location for a stadium with plenty of open area, isn't that heavily travelled

[PECKERWOOD]

Domes..HELL NO!! A retractable roof facility is something I could live with...so the stadium would get more use...but keep the damn roof open during snowstorms

as far as construction slowing down traffic...the area south of HSBC Arena, a good location for a stadium with plenty of open area, isn't that heavily travelled

Put it on the bulleted list if you could Phil! To get the bullet type alt + 0149, or just copy and paste it.

[gr8slayer]

Looks like selective viewing. Yeah, they show the Falls a lot, but I have seen downtown Buffalo pretty regularly as well...hell, most telecasts show a view at the Anchor Bar's kitchen
I can honestly say that I have never seen a shot of downtown Buffalo during a televised game. Maybe I just miss it?

[The_Philster]

I can honestly say that I have never seen a shot of downtown Buffalo during a televised game. Maybe I just miss it?
:idunno: maybe....it's not like the Falls is the only thing they show...a lot of the other stuff shown is in Buffalo

[Typ0]

they are not going to be building a stadium downtown and it's sad.

[gr8slayer]

they are not going to be building a stadium downtown and it's sad.
How do you know for sure>

[Typ0]

How do you know for sure>

What would we do with the new scoreboard?

[Slim]

Let's make a list of the positive and negative effects. Here is a couple off the top of my head, please add to my list. :bandwagon

Positives:

• Would keep the team in Buffalo.
• Would create more job opportunities.
• If we built a dome stadium, we could host superbowls.

Negatives:

• This would cost alot of money.
• All the construction would slow down traffic in down town Buffalo.
• Would raise taxes significantly.

For some reason i dont think of Buffalo as a gleaming hotspot to host a superbowl.

[Nighthawk]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...when a new owner comes along, there will have to be a new stadium built or we lose the Bills...PERIOD! Whatever the cost is it has to be paid. The Ralph is a pile of crap and not really fun to go to and watch a game. There will be a retractable dome on the new stadium so that it can be used for other functions...whether we like it or not. This area needs the stadium to be used for other things than just 8-10 football games a year, thus a retractable roof makes total sense...an open air stadium does not.

[PECKERWOOD]

For some reason i dont think of Buffalo as a gleaming hotspot to host a superbowl.

Why not? Because it's never been done before?

[Dr. Lecter]

What would we do with the new scoreboard?

Take it down and move it?

[Dr. Lecter]

Why not? Because it's never been done before?

Buffalo does not have the hotel and convention space or the infrastructure to host the NHL All-Star game, let alone a Super Bowl.

[Slim]

Why not? Because it's never been done before?


Beacuse its Buffalo, its not Atlanta or San Diego.. The population actually decreaces in Buffalo. It's not exactly a great vacation spot. Its not a great tourist/attraction city, like Hou,Mia,Sd,Atl.

[PECKERWOOD]

Some trailors from New Orleans would work, imo. :lol:

[Typ0]

Take it down and move it?

OK...so they are going to spec out all these things for the Ralph, actually go out build and install them...and then turn around and move them into a new stadium. The government is more intelligent than you think at times.

[jamze132]

:bf1:
Hell Pittsburgh is having pretty much the same fiscal problems we are but they found the money to build the football and baseball stadium.

Enough with this loser attitude. I think it is all the cynical fogies around here. The new generation needs to step in.
But they are owned by ketchup. They have infinite amount of money since everyone loves ketchup!

[jamze132]

We are going to need a lot of financial support from the state if we are ever going to get a new stadium. I agree that it will have to have a dome or a retractable roof, which ever is cheaper so they can hold more events inside.

Does anyone know what Ralph Wilson's plans are? Who get's the team if he dies tomorrow?

I really hate thinking about the reality of not having the Bills.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We are going to need a lot of financial support from the state if we are ever going to get a new stadium. I agree that it will have to have a dome or a retractable roof, which ever is cheaper so they can hold more events inside.

Does anyone know what Ralph Wilson's plans are? Who get's the team if he dies tomorrow?

I really hate thinking about the reality of not having the Bills.
No one knows Ralph's Plans!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Ralph wants to maximize the Bills value to his heirs.

If Buffalo had a new stadium with the Bills wrapped up in a long term lease, the team would not be as valuable as it would be now, unfettered and able to pick up and go to LA.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ralph wants to maximize the Bills value to his heirs.

If Buffalo had a new stadium with the Bills wrapped up in a long term lease, the team would not be as valuable as it would be now, unfettered and able to pick up and go to LA.
Which would go against all his life work(being a champion for small markets and the City of Buffalo), and he would be the most hated man in Buffalo History, but you are probably right.

[Earthquake Enyart]

He'll be dead and his ugly daughters will be rich.

That means more than anything.

The NFL has this stadium building fund that the owners are using to finance stadium construction. Ralph has been too quiet on the stadium issue.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They will be rich either way it is just to what degree? How much money do those PIGS need? **** THEM!!

I heard that Ralph's wife is a HUGE Bills fan? Could he leave the team to her?

[Earthquake Enyart]

The daughters (I think 2 of them) have been involved with the team for years.

The Bills will be left to Ralph's estate. I'm sure the wife and daughters will be well taken care of. But, it doesn't matter how much the "love" the team... what would you rather have, $400 mil for the Buffalo Bills or $800 mil for the LA Flaming Homos?

[THATHURMANATOR]

The daughters (I think 2 of them) have been involved with the team for years.

The Bills will be left to Ralph's estate. I'm sure the wife and daughters will be well taken care of. But, it doesn't matter how much the "love" the team... what would you rather have, $400 mil for the Buffalo Bills or $800 mil for the LA Flaming Homos?
I know, I know the #s are insane but it just sickens me. We will be the ultimate hockey town if the Bills are gone!

[THATHURMANATOR]

The daughters (I think 2 of them) have been involved with the team for years.

The Bills will be left to Ralph's estate. I'm sure the wife and daughters will be well taken care of. But, it doesn't matter how much the "love" the team... what would you rather have, $400 mil for the Buffalo Bills or $800 mil for the LA Flaming Homos?
Could the Wife and Daughters just stay on as owners and not sell the team? IS that even possible?

[Dr. Lecter]

Possible, but the daughters have said they have no interest in being owners. There is also the estate tax issue if they don't sell after inheriting the team

[Earthquake Enyart]

Could the Wife and Daughters just stay on as owners and not sell the team? IS that even possible?
No. The democratic death tax will stop the daughters from inheriting the team and keeping it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No. The democratic death tax will stop the daughters from inheriting the team and keeping it.
Why? Why can't they pay the inheritance tax and make their money back with the team?

Why can't Ralph turn the team over to them before he dies?

[Dr. Lecter]

No. The democratic death tax will stop the daughters from inheriting the team and keeping it.

Unless he dies in 2009. Right now there is no inheritance tax in 2009.

[Dr. Lecter]

Why? Why can't they pay the inheritance tax and make their money back with the team?

Why can't Ralph turn the team over to them before he dies?

There are tax implications there as well. They would have to pay taxes on the fair market value of the team.

[Earthquake Enyart]

When Ralph dies, his estate will owe hundreds of millions in estate taxes. That's one giant capital gain from when he started the Bills with next to nothing to where they are now.

They could sell part of the team like the McCaskeys did with the Bears to retain control, but do you really want women running your team? I don't.

[THATHURMANATOR]

When Ralph dies, his estate will owe hundreds of millions in estate taxes. That's one giant capital gain from when he started the Bills with next to nothing to where they are now.

They could sell part of the team like the McCaskeys did with the Bears to retain control, but do you really want women running your team? I don't.
To keep them in town sure.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Great article. It is 100% on target in my mind!

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/12/a_new_football_stadium_fo.php

[dplus47]

But, it doesn't matter how much the "love" the team... what would you rather have, $400 mil for the Buffalo Bills or $800 mil for the LA Flaming Homos?

nice, adult post by somebody who clearly isn't obsessed with gay sex.

[dplus47]

No. The democratic death tax will stop the daughters from inheriting the team and keeping it.

this explains a lot. republicans really aren't thinking about teh gay sex all the time, honest...

[Historian]

Possible, but the daughters have said they have no interest in being owners.

I never quite understood that considering one has been a team VP for twenty years.

[Dr. Lecter]

this explains a lot. republicans really aren't thinking about teh gay sex all the time, honest...

I don't think EE is either a Dem or a Rep.

[dplus47]

I don't think EE is either a Dem or a Rep.
i saw the republican talking point and generalized, which probably isn't a great thing to do when responding to someone for generalizing about my city...

[The_Philster]

i saw the republican talking point and generalized, which probably isn't a great thing to do when responding to someone for generalizing about my city...
I don't know is he was necessarily saying it because it's LA...but because LA would be thieves stealing away our team. Browns fans said all sorts of nasty things about Baltimore, for example. :2cents:

[PECKERWOOD]

Wow.. The West Side Plans are pretty freaking sweet. Imagine if Buffalo built a stadium like this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/2004_06_sjets.jpg

[Typ0]

I never quite understood that considering one has been a team VP for twenty years.


that's how you get money out of the company. She's a VP drawing a VPs salary and has no involvement or no interest. She probably sits in the board meetings and pics her teeth with a tree branch.

[Typ0]

Wow.. The West Side Plans are pretty freaking sweet. Imagine if Buffalo built a stadium like this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/2004_06_sjets.jpg


and that stadium got squashed.

[PECKERWOOD]

and that stadium got squashed.

Yep, it's still sweet to look at. Can't you imagine that with a big bills logo instead?

[Typ0]

Yep, it's still sweet to look at. Can't you imagine that with a big bills logo instead?

the planning is all there. seeing them put it here instead would be nice.

[ddaryl]

No. The democratic death tax will stop the daughters from inheriting the team and keeping it.


The fact remians that after the "death tax" they'll still have boat loads of big time money and they will live more comfortable then you or your children ever will in their lifetimes.

flame on !


The probelm with keeping the Bills in Buffalo will boil down to only one thing. WNY is too poor to stay attractive as the home of the Bills to most potential buyers. Until there are a lot more high paying blue collar and white collar jobs added to WNY there is very little chance in funding a 1/2 billion dollar stadium. There is even less of a chance of adding these jobs with the present tax rates outside of the death tax in NYS.

You can also point the finger at the wealthier states/cities/communities that have pro sports teams and can sell out stadiums at $100+ a ticket. That kind of money is just not being generated enough in WNY, and therefore WNY is undeserving of a pro team in the eyes of other teams because of its inability to maintain pace and compete fiscally.

[SABuffalo786]

Where are you going to put this stadium downtown?

[rockforlight]

a couple things:

the reason teams like dallas are building their statums so far away from their core-downtown areas is because these are already huge, fully developed cities with no room to place monsterous sized statums in them. buffalo, on the other hand, has more brown fields and premium wasted land than one can stomach to look at.

if a new stadium was built, buffalo would be the best choice. buffalo is slowly rebounding after decades of terrible planning, a new downtown stadium would only benefit ALL of us even more. it would help create more business, jobs, hopefully make nafta improve thier horrid public transportation, etc. not placing a new stadium downtown would go down in my mind with having surface parking lots every other street downtown, and having the subway run in a straight line as some of the worst ideas of all time.


ps. have you ever been to NF? outside of the gorge and state park, do people really want to spend more time than they have to there? the entire city is complete garbage.

[The_Philster]

Where are you going to put this stadium downtown?
South of the Arena...there's a lot of area there that goes unused

[ddaryl]

Where are you going to put this stadium downtown?


Right wheere the old Bethlehem Steel Plant(s) use to reside. Although it would take a few billion to clean up properly for use do to major contamination, there is miles of land to be reclaimed.


There is a big energy producing Windmill project being installed at the steel plant site, my bro-in-law has accepted a position as a mechanic there.



The only real problem with a Lake Erie based stadium is the weather and winds whipping off of the lake in Nov Dec and Jan would be unbearable when at its worst. Route 5 also is not capable of handling 60,000 people the way OP can. Gameday would render route 5 useless for non game day travelers, but it sure would go along way to bringing business back to south Buffalo Lackawanna and Woodlawn