Ashton Youboty

[PECKERWOOD]

Has he even been suiting up to play games? A 3rd round pick, you think he would have atleast got a couple plays. Last I knew his mother died and he was understandably having problems with that, but this was like a couple weeks into the season max, it's week 13. What's this guys deal?

[Dr. Lecter]

He is stuck behind Kiwukee Thomas and Jabari Greer,so there has not been much room for him.

[PECKERWOOD]

He is stuck behind Kiwukee Thomas and Jabari Greer,so there has not been much room for him.

What a wasted pick. If we have so much depth at CB why did we draft this guy? It's also funny how people were projecting him to take over at starting CB when Clements leaves, yet he can't even crack the lineup. Holy Moly.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What a wasted pick. If we have so much depth at CB why did we draft this guy? It's also funny how people were projecting him to take over at starting CB when Clements leaves, yet he can't even crack the lineup. Holy Moly.
Another overreactor. He missed most of training camp due to his situation. Give the guy a camp next year before you freak out.

[Dr. Lecter]

Wasted pick?

C'mon man. He is a rookie for God's sake. Nate might/likely will be gone next year.

Angelo Crowell was inactive most of his rookie year. Was he a wasted pick?

[Dr. Lecter]

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg0 align=left><TD class=bg0 colSpan=13>Defensive Stats</TD></TR><TR class=bg1 align=middle><TD>Year</TD><TD>Team</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>Total</TD><TD>Tkl</TD><TD>Ast</TD><TD>Sacks</TD><TD>Int</TD><TD>Yds</TD><TD>Avg</TD><TD>Lg</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>Pass Def</TD></TR><TR class=bg3 vAlign=center align=right height=15><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=left>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=15><TD align=left>2004</TD><TD align=left>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>8.0</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD></TR><TR class=bg3 vAlign=center align=right height=15><TD align=left>2005</TD><TD align=left>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>119</TD><TD>79.0</TD><TD>40</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=15><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=left>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>82</TD><TD>57.0</TD><TD>25</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD></TR><TR class=bg3 id=total_CAREER_DEFENSE vAlign=center align=right height=15><TD class=bg4 align=left>TOTAL</TD><TD class=bg4 align=left> </TD><TD class=bg4>48</TD><TD class=bg4>217</TD><TD class=bg4>146.0</TD><TD class=bg4>71</TD><TD class=bg4>5</TD><TD class=bg4>4</TD><TD class=bg4>3</TD><TD class=bg4>0.8</TD><TD class=bg4>2</TD><TD class=bg4>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Crowell played in 6 games his rookie year and was a 3rd round pick. Some guys need more time to develop.

[dplus47]

What a wasted pick. If we have so much depth at CB why did we draft this guy? It's also funny how people were projecting him to take over at starting CB when Clements leaves, yet he can't even crack the lineup. Holy Moly.

you can't call a pick "wasted" at this point. he's going to be a solid corner for you guys.

[Romes]

how many years was crowell on the team before he cracked the starting lineup?

he's still a rook no need to call him a bust yet.

[Romes]

Wasted pick?

C'mon man. He is a rookie for God's sake. Nate might/likely will be gone next year.

Angelo Crowell was inactive most of his rookie year. Was he a wasted pick?

beat me to it :up:

[PECKERWOOD]

He is a wasted pick because he isn't playing for us. We have so many holes on this team that we can't afford to sit guys on the bench for a year. We need players that can start now.

[PECKERWOOD]

Another overreactor. He missed most of training camp due to his situation. Give the guy a camp next year before you freak out.

He missed like a week out of training camp, big deal.

[justasportsfan]

He is a wasted pick because he isn't playing for us. We have so many holes on this team that we can't afford to sit guys on the bench for a year. We need players that can start now.So who should we have used that pick on? Do you know of anyone in the 3rd rd. (hindsight) who would've easily started on this team?

[ParanoidAndroid]

This team obviously was thinking proactively since we are developing. The chances are pretty good that Clements will not be here and this gives a corner a little time to develop. No one was absolutely sure that Clements would still be here to begin this year. So, we drafted a young CB and snagged a free agent. Sounds like a smart decision to me. Getting him now also helps with the cohesion of the unit of young DB's (Simpson, Whitner, Youboty) as they develop together.
He'll play when they decide he's ready, which I hope is soon.

[Dr. Lecter]

He is a wasted pick because he isn't playing for us. We have so many holes on this team that we can't afford to sit guys on the bench for a year. We need players that can start now.

Insanity. Teams don't start or even play every draft pick. It is nearly impossible to do so. Drafts are not about building a team this year, but building for the future.

[PECKERWOOD]

So who should we have used that picked on. Do you know of anyone in the 3rd rd. (hindsight) who would've easily started on this team?

I'm sure I could look at the 2006 draft and find a lineman that could have played on our OL right away.

[PECKERWOOD]

Insanity. Teams don't start or even play every draft pick. It is nearly impossible to do so. Drafts are not about building a team this year, but building for the future.

We have so many holes and he was taken on the first day, the move doesn't make sense. Plus we have so much depth at the position already.

[Dr. Lecter]

So if Youboty ends being an All-pro in 4 years, we would have been better off drafting a guy who will be an average NFL lineman his entire career?

[Dr. Lecter]

We have so many holes and he was taken on the first day, the move doesn't make sense. Plus we have so much depth at the position already.

Not necessarily true. Nate and Thomas are FA's at the end of the year. Greer is a back-up and ST player.

Youboty has the talent to be a starting CB in the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

I'm sure I could look at the 2006 draft and find a lineman that could have played on our OL right away.huh? OL Start right away? You mean you still have to look which means there isn't a OL who was drafted in the 3rd rd. that easily sticks out in your mind?

Youboty was drafted for the future. Next season is still part of the future. Let's revisit this thread and call him a waste nest season, not now. Like someone pointed out, you probably would've have been calling Crowell a bust in his first year.

[JoeMama]

Has he even been suiting up to play games? A 3rd round pick, you think he would have atleast got a couple plays. Last I knew his mother died and he was understandably having problems with that, but this was like a couple weeks into the season max, it's week 13. What's this guys deal?

I wouldn't sweat it.

I think the fact that Ashton Youboty has been inactive is a testament to the satisfactory role that Kiwaukee Thomas & Jabari Greer have played at third CB moreso than a than a condemnation of Ashton Youboty himself.

He'll get a shot sooner or later.

[PECKERWOOD]

huh? OL Start right away? You mean you still have to look which means there isn't a OL who was drafted in the 3rd rd. that easily sticks out in your mind?

Youboty was drafted for the future. Next season is still part of the future. Let's revisit this thread and call him a waste nest season, not now. Like someone pointed out, you probably would've have been calling Crowell a bust in his first year.


You mean you still have to look which means there isn't a OL who was drafted in the 3rd rd. that easily sticks out in your mind?

No, it doesn't stick out in my mind because I didn't memorize every player who was taken in the draft. Why, was I supposed to?


Youboty was drafted for the future. Next season is still part of the future. Let's revisit this thread and call him a waste nest season, not now. Like someone pointed out, you probably would've have been calling Crowell a bust in his first year.

That's a legitimate point, however I have always liked Crowell, not sure why but my gut proved to be right about him. I'm not neccesarily saying that Youboty is a bad player, I'm just saying we could have spent the pick on a player who could start right away. It just doesn't make sense in my eyes, to draft a player on the first day when you have studs loaded at that position already. I understand that Clements is in his final year, but that makes it even the more important to get Youboty playing time, thats IF we have any intention of having him take over Nate's spot at all.

[Typ0]

Youboty has the talent to be a starting CB in the NFL.

But he's fourth on our depth chart? I mean, based on what are you saying he's a starter on other teams you haven't even seen him play.

[mysticsoto]

huh? OL Start right away? You mean you still have to look which means there isn't a OL who was drafted in the 3rd rd. that easily sticks out in your mind?

Youboty was drafted for the future. Next season is still part of the future. Let's revisit this thread and call him a waste nest season, not now. Like someone pointed out, you probably would've have been calling Crowell a bust in his first year.

Agreed. If you can't think of one without going to look them up, then none at that level have been good enough to stick out in your mind.

But for argument's sake, let's go look them up...

Jason Spitz (C) - a Center being used as a guard by GB. Appears to be doing okay so far. Has played 9 games. 6'4", 313 lbs. A decent prospect, but was slated for Center and we already have a Center. Nothing was outstanding about him in the draft.

Rashad Butler (OT) - Carolina. Hasn't played one game yet.

Max Jean-Gilles (OG) - Philly. Hasn't played one game yet.


Out of these 3 that were taken in between our Youboty and Ko Simpson picks, Spitz is the only one that appears to be decent and please don't tell me that Spitz was a household name before or even during the draft. As with anything, he has turned out to be decent, but as Justa said, hindsight is 20/20!

[Michael82]

But he's fourth on our depth chart? I mean, based on what are you saying he's a starter on other teams you haven't even seen him play.
he missed almost all of training camp and all of the preseason because of the death in his family and an injury. He needed all this time to catch up. Don't be surprised if he sees some time on the field within the next week or two.

[PECKERWOOD]

Agreed. If you can't think of one without going to look them up, then none at that level have been good enough to stick out in your mind.

But for argument's sake, let's go look them up...

Jason Spitz (C) - a Center being used as a guard by GB. Appears to be doing okay so far. Has played 9 games. 6'4", 313 lbs. A decent prospect, but was slated for Center and we already have a Center. Nothing was outstanding about him in the draft.

Rashad Butler (OT) - Carolina. Hasn't played one game yet.

Max Jean-Gilles (OG) - Philly. Hasn't played one game yet.


Out of these 3 that were taken in between our Youboty and Ko Simpson picks, Spitz is the only one that appears to be decent and please don't tell me that Spitz was a household name before or even during the draft. As with anything, he has turned out to be decent, but as Justa said, hindsight is 20/20!

Just because Butler and Jean-Gilles haven't played yet, doesn't mean they wouldn't be starting in Buffalo. In case you didn't notice, Philly and Carolina have a much better OL than we do.

[justasportsfan]

No, it doesn't stick out in my mind because I didn't memorize every player who was taken in the draft. Why, was I supposed to?



That's a legitimate point, however I have always liked Crowell, not sure why but my gut proved to be right about him. I'm not neccesarily saying that Youboty is a bad player, I'm just saying we could have spent the pick on a player who could start right away. It just doesn't make sense in my eyes, to draft a player on the first day when you have studs loaded at that position already. I understand that Clements is in his final year, but that makes it even the more important to get Youboty playing time, thats IF we have any intention of having him take over Nate's spot at all.


No but a player in the 3rd rd. who makes an impact would've stood out but since you'd have to look it up obviously no one did . Almost everyone thought Youboty was a steal at 3 but since Kiwake and co. are doing well let him wait for his time. It's a good problem to have when you don't have to start a rookie.

[Typ0]

he missed almost all of training camp and all of the preseason because of the death in his family and an injury. He needed all this time to catch up. Don't be surprised if he sees some time on the field within the next week or two.

OK fine, those are nice excuses for the fact that he hasn't seen the field. Now if you want to quote me why don't you answer the question. No one has seen him play so how can it be asserted he's a starter? I'm not down on the guy don't know anything about him...but I'll wait to see him in play before I make homer assertions about him being a starter.

[PECKERWOOD]

No but a player in the 3rd rd. who makes an impact would've stood out but since you'd have to look it up obviously no one did . Almost everyone thought Youboty was a steal at 3 but since Kiwake and co. are doing well let him wait for his time. It's a good problem to have when you don't have to start a rookie.


No but a player in the 3rd rd. who makes an impact would've stood out but since you'd have to look it up obviously no one did .

That's not necessarily the case.. When I see a player doing well, I usually don't think: "Wow, he was the 78th pick of the 2006 draft!" Maybe if I see Mario Williams, Reggie Bush or someone else, but typically anyone after the 1st-2nd round doesn't get much attention. Just because I don't know what 3rd rounders are having breakout seasons or would be worth while here, doesn't mean there isn't any. My whole point is that if we were trying to build depth, why didn't we build it at positions that needed it the most? We could have gotten a higher ranked OL prospect that may be starting versus grabbing a CB that is going to ride the pine. I'm not sure why this is hard for some people to grasp.. Once again, I'm not saying Youboty is a bust. I'm simply indicating that we could of gotten another player at a different position that could be starting right now. Seriously, why did we sign Kiwaukee if we were going to draft the 'future'? That move doesn't make sense at all. You typically draft players at positions your weak in, hence the comments about grabbing a linemen with the 3rd pick. Call me crazy but I'm disappointed Youboty hasn't played a down yet.

[PECKERWOOD]

huh? OL Start right away? You mean you still have to look which means there isn't a OL who was drafted in the 3rd rd. that easily sticks out in your mind?

Youboty was drafted for the future. Next season is still part of the future. Let's revisit this thread and call him a waste nest season, not now. Like someone pointed out, you probably would've have been calling Crowell a bust in his first year.

Hey, there may not be too many 3rd round OL starting right away. But I sure can think of a 6th and 7th rounder that have been starting.

[Typ0]

That's not necessarily the case.. When I see a player doing well, I usually don't think: "Wow, he was the 78th pick of the 2006 draft!" Maybe if I see Mario Williams, Reggie Bush or someone else, but typically anyone after the 1st-2nd round doesn't get much attention. Just because I don't know what 3rd rounders are having breakout seasons or would be worth while here, doesn't mean there isn't any. My whole point is that if we were trying to build depth, why didn't we build it at positions that needed it the most? We could have gotten a higher ranked OL prospect that may be starting versus grabbing a CB that is going to ride the pine. I'm not sure why this is hard for some people to grasp.. Once again, I'm not saying Youboty is a bust. I'm simply indicating that we could of gotten another player at a different position that could be starting right now. Seriously, why did we sign Kiwaukee if we were going to draft the 'future'? That move doesn't make sense at all. You typically draft players at positions your weak in, hence the comments about grabbing a linemen with the 3rd pick. Call me crazy but I'm disappointed Youboty hasn't played a down yet.

I think that's short term thinking though and what you will end up with is less talent than you could have had. There comes a point where you have to take the guys you think are the best available...it's always that point actually. Maybe next season there will be an oline guy there when we pick who we believe in and we make the pick...and then we have both positions filled with players we believe in instead of players we aren't sure about but have drafted positionally. Overall, the idea is to hire the best people for the team not fill the roles with people that are adequate.

[YardRat]

OG-Jahri Evans, 4th round, Saints.
OT-Ryan O'Callghan-Patriots-5th.
DT-Barry Cofield-Giants-4th.

Still, you've got to give the kid some time. Everybody has a different learning curve, it is his rookie year, and there is some decent talent ahead of him on the roster already.

He'll be just fine, IMO, although I really hope we re-sign Nate.

[RockStar36]

He is a wasted pick because he isn't playing for us. We have so many holes on this team that we can't afford to sit guys on the bench for a year. We need players that can start now.

So who should get benched so that he can play?

Calling him a wasted pick is ridiculous. Just because the team has lots of holes doesn't mean a rookie CB will solve that. Will it?

[RockStar36]

But he's fourth on our depth chart? I mean, based on what are you saying he's a starter on other teams you haven't even seen him play.

He said he has the talent to be a possible starter on other teams. "Talent" and actual playing ability are two different things. I'm sure people saw him play at OSU.

You guys don't actually think he was drafted in preparation for Clements leaving, do you?

I mean, planning for the future? What a weird concept.

[PECKERWOOD]

He said he has the talent to be a possible starter on other teams. "Talent" and actual playing ability are two different things. I'm sure people saw him play at OSU.

You guys don't actually think he was drafted in preparation for Clements leaving, do you?

I mean, planning for the future? What a weird concept.

I mentioned how ridiculous that notion is. If he is here to replace Clements then why aren't they giving him any playing time? I don't know about you, but if I'm going to have a rookie replace a top 10 CB in the league, I am going to want to give him some playing time. Furthermore, why did they sign Kiwaukee then? It would make more sense to have just Youboty and Greer. The bottom line is, Marv isn't perfect. People are forgetting he is an 80 year old rookie.

[The_Philster]

He missed like a week out of training camp, big deal.
He missed a lot more than a week

[PECKERWOOD]

He missed a lot more than a week

Say he missed 3-4 weeks, were in week 13 now. He needs some game time experience. There have been players that have held out for a good chunk of training camp and still managed to get on the field. This whole training camp theory needs to be put to rest.

[Dr. Lecter]

No it does not. He missed most of TC and the pre-season. He is a rookie that was considered raw.

And Typ0, if you notice I said he has the TALENT to be a starter. Not that he shoudl be or could be. But he does have raw talent.

[Tatonka]

Wasted pick?

C'mon man. He is a rookie for God's sake. Nate might/likely will be gone next year.

Angelo Crowell was inactive most of his rookie year. Was he a wasted pick?


crowell barely saw the field for 2 years and only got a chance to play due to injury. he is one of our best defensive players now.

i think because so many other rookies have gotten so much playing time, peoples expectations are a bit too high for a guy like youboty.. he was a fairly raw talent coming out of college.. i am not surprised.. although i will say i am not a big fan of thomas.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I mentioned how ridiculous that notion is. If he is here to replace Clements then why aren't they giving him any playing time? I don't know about you, but if I'm going to have a rookie replace a top 10 CB in the league, I am going to want to give him some playing time. Furthermore, why did they sign Kiwaukee then? It would make more sense to have just Youboty and Greer. The bottom line is, Marv isn't perfect. People are forgetting he is an 80 year old rookie.

Youboty was a guy tagged as a possible late-1st round pick who fell to the Bills--who were happy to take a player with late-1st round talent in the 3rd round as a possible replacement for Clements should they not be able to re-sign him.

Youboty has not played thus far for a couple of related reasons: 1.) while he has late-1st round ability and the potential to be a quality starting CB in the NFL, Youboty was not as ready to step into the starting lineup as a rookie as Donte Whitner and some of the other DBs in the draft; 2.) with Clements still on their roster, the Bills did not need to rush Youboty into the lineup; 3.) because Ohio State has late exams and the NFL prevents rookies from participating in OTAs until their school's exams are over, Youboty and Whitner missed all but one of the team's OTAs; when Youboty did report to training camp, Youboty did not get the largest proportion of reps at his position early on in training camp, unlike Whitner who immediately went to the top of the depth chart at his position when Bowen got hurt; 4.) Youboty missed the last three weeks of training camp and the preseason when his mother died--this was certainly not a situation that could have been foreseen when he was drafted, but it not only prevented him from catching up on what he had missed when he was unable to attend the OTAs, but it set him back further in relation to the rest of the team; and 5.) perhaps the biggest reason that Youboty has not seen any playing time is that, because Youboty missed so much time prior to the start of the season, he did not have a chance to compete for a spot on Special Teams--in his absence, both Thomas and Greer not only secured those spots, but proved their value as special teams players--and, as a result, Youboty does not offer the team as much, because he is less able to contribute on Special Teams at this point than Thomas or Greer, as the player that he would be replacing on the active roster.

The preparation time that Youboty missed prior to the start of the season has cost him dearly. It set back his development as a CB and has made it difficult to secure a spot on Special Teams over Thomas and Greer, who both had the time and experience to not only win their spots on Special Teams, but play well enough to make it difficult for the coaches to replace them with Youboty. With the Bills' Special Teams playing well and being so important to the team's success, the fact that they may be reluctant to replace Thomas or Greer, who are playing well on those units, with an unknown commodity like Youboty, is understandable--after all, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

But the fact that Youboty has not played yet this season does not mean that he is not working to develop his abilities in practice or that he will not become a good player in the future. As far as the comparison with Crowell is concerned, Crowell's playing time and contributions as a rookie came almost exclusively on Special Teams--and that after he had attended all but one of the OTAs and had a full training camp and preseason under his belt. And, he was on a team that was not as deep on Special Teams at the time as the Bills are now.

Could the Bills have possibly drafted a player who would have been able to contribute more this season than Youboty? Perhaps. Could they have drafted a gem who would have turned out to be a better player than Youboty will turn out to be in the future? Maybe, it's possible. But, hindsight is 20/20 and the people who are making the decisions on draft day in any NFL team's war room are not psychics and do not have the benefit of hindsight. Not only is it far too early to render a judgement on whether Youboty will be a good player and was, therefore, a good draft pick, it is grossly unfair to expect that the people who are running the Bills should be perfect in every decision that they make. Nobody is perfect. And, drafting players in the NFL is not an exact science. To expect Marv Levy and those who advised him to draft Youboty to have known that Youboty's mother would suddenly die when she did and that, as a result, he would miss so much time in the preseason and be set back as much as he was is quite simply ludicrous.

It is generally understood that it takes at least three years to judge how a draft pick has turned out. Let's give Youboty those three years before we start to make judgements about how good or bad it was for the Bills to have drafted him. It's easy to say at this point that the Bills had a lot of holes and could have found a player at that spot in the draft who would have offered them more immediate help than Youboty--it's a lot tougher to figure out where Youboty and every other player remaining at that point in the draft will be in three years and find the guy who would not only give the Bills more immediate help, but be a better player three years down the road without the benefit of ESP or hindsight.

Nobody is saying that Marv or the rest of the Bills' staff is perfect--they're most certainly NOT!--but the team that they have put on the field this season is a lot better on the whole as a team than the team that imploded and basically quit playing hard last season. And, in all fairness, there is something to be said for that--regardless of the fact that there are still a lot of holes to fill and a long way to go before the Bills have a team that can legitimately contend for a Super Bowl ring.

[Night Train]

I'm sure I could look at the 2006 draft and find a lineman that could have played on our OL right away.

After the fact. Wow, that makes you a genius.

I can point out all the blemishes after a loss. No one at the water cooler seems impressed.

[Yasgur's Farm]

He missed like a week out of training camp, big deal.

Say he missed 3-4 weeks, were in week 13 now. He needs some game time experience. There have been players that have held out for a good chunk of training camp and still managed to get on the field. This whole training camp theory needs to be put to rest.Actually he missed about 4 weeks of training camp. That's a huge percentage.

Nobody believes it when a coach says "he's missing critical time" when a rookie holds out. But the learning and training during that time is intense and exponentially greater than what they would get during the season itself. Most everybody's focus is on game preparation... Not system installation.

Youboty just simply got too far behind to catch up.

[LtFinFan66]

Almost all Buckeye cornerbacks turn out pretty good in the NFL.

[TigerJ]

Nobody can know for certain how a player will perform in a game, but I think Buffalo plrobably has some sort of feel about whether Youboty might or might not develop. That will inform their off season strategy with respect to signing Clements and/or acquiring other players either through the draft or free agency. On the other hand, if/when the Bills are eliminated from playoff contention, I would not be surprised to see the Bills sit another CB and activate Youboty just to see what they've got on the field in game conditions. Right now he's probably functioning much like a practice squad member, playing with the scout team.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Once again, he was picked as insurance against the possible/eventual departure of Nate Clements. How is that not filling a hole on the roster?

[ublinkwescore]

This team obviously was thinking proactively since we are developing. The chances are pretty good that Clements will not be here and this gives a corner a little time to develop. No one was absolutely sure that Clements would still be here to begin this year. So, we drafted a young CB and snagged a free agent. Sounds like a smart decision to me. Getting him now also helps with the cohesion of the unit of young DB's (Simpson, Whitner, Youboty) as they develop together.
He'll play when they decide he's ready, which I hope is soon.

I think he starts seeing the field as soon as we see loss #7 - at that point we're out of the playoffs, and we need to get some of the green out from behind his ears.

[justasportsfan]

Hey, there may not be too many 3rd round OL starting right away. But I sure can think of a 6th and 7th rounder that have been starting.
yeah Like Pennington over Butler . Thing is, if a 3rd rd. is a waste because the guys on the team are doing well, Rivers must've been a waste. He was a 1st rd. pick who had to sit it out for 2 years because the guy infront of him was doing well?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I mentioned how ridiculous that notion is. If he is here to replace Clements then why aren't they giving him any playing time? I don't know about you, but if I'm going to have a rookie replace a top 10 CB in the league, I am going to want to give him some playing time. Furthermore, why did they sign Kiwaukee then? It would make more sense to have just Youboty and Greer. The bottom line is, Marv isn't perfect. People are forgetting he is an 80 year old rookie.

We also lost one of our nickel/dime backs, Kevin Thomas to injury. He was released and Kiwaukee Thomas was signed. We weren't sure Clements would be here, thus the pick of Youboty. Unfortunate and unforseen circumstances have led to Youboty being behind in his development. Rignt now, Thomas and Greer are ahead on the depth chart. With Youboty, we possibly have a solid, young group of DB's led by McGee and Whitner along with Simpson who is beginning to play well. We needed a CB and Youboty was highly rated and obviously, they liked him better than anyone available among O-line prospects.

[PECKERWOOD]

After the fact. Wow, that makes you a genius.

I can point out all the blemishes after a loss. No one at the water cooler seems impressed.

Am I trying to paint myself out as a genius? No. I've been wrong as well, and hopefully I'm wrong about our move to take Youboty. However, it doesn't seem logical that he is Nate's heir, if thats the case, we are in trouble. I knew I was going to take grief for starting this thread, but the bottom line is, this is how I feel. We are so weak at OL, yet we stock up on one of our biggest strengths. You could have asked me before the season and I would have told you that already. One more thing. I was the guy hoping D'Brick would fall to the Bill's or that we could some how scoop up Nick Mangold. I've always emphasized the importance of having a strong OL. I think if we had a better OL, JP would be much more consistent. I've said this COUNTLESS times.

Why does it make me a fool to look back at our draft and judge it? We are a little over 3/4ths through the season, and you can now determine which rookies made the biggest impact. As far as I'm concerned, that was patiently waiting on my part, atleast I don't jump the gun like some people on this message board.

Once again, I'M NOT SAYING YOUBOTY IS A BUST. I am saying however, that an offensive lineman may have been a better pick. What exactly is so wrong about judging your draft after almost a full season? Seems reasonable to me.

[PECKERWOOD]

yeah Like Pennington over Butler . Thing is, if a 3rd rd. is a waste because the guys on the team are doing well, Rivers must've been a waste. He was a 1st rd. pick who had to sit it out for 2 years because the guy infront of him was doing well?

The Rivers // Brees situation is completely unique, you may never see something like that happen again. We knew Nate would show up, it would make no sense for him financially or logically, seeing how Marv promised Nate that he wouldn't use the franchise tag on him again. We knew Nate would be back, we knew McGee would be here, we have Jabari and we signed Kiwaukee talkee. Looking back now, Villarial has been injured (this hasn't happened before has it?.. lol ) and we played musical chairs with our OL mid-way through the season. I don't see how a linemen with the 3rd pick is a bad decision. Whatever though, two each his own.