The ball is back in TD's Court

[kgun12]

On WNSA this morning, he was asked about PP signing the Franchise tag contract. TD said we told him that's fine, BUT all the visits STOP, PP is again sole property of the Buffalo Bills.

You just gotta love this man! :snicker2:

[WG]

Meanwhile we have $5M tied up.

I'll love him if he doesn't sign anymore Posey's and starts signing some defensive help!

So far this offseason I'm not too incredibly impressed. Neither are some others as I'm understanding it.

Sometimes I wonder if TD's simply trying to win this battle with Price and McGee over winning the battle of improving the defense!

This will all go away if he trades Price for a first or second rounder this week.

And this move about "visits stopping", well, wouldn't that pretty much mean that Price plays with Buffalo this season? Yes, yes I think it would. With so many glaring needs on D this upcoming season, I really have to question whether that is smart or simply stubborn.

As well, I am guessing that if Price doesn't draw the kind of interest that he is seeking, that McGee/Price may sign that daggoned thing. If that happens, he doesn't help us very much at all. In fact, what we have is a bad situation much like the one that will be created in Cincy w/ Spikes. We'll have WR who is a "lame duck" in terms of future here. One who didn't want to be here. One who won't be the #1 guy and therefore unhappy, especially since he's likely to not have as many catches this year as last.

I don't see this development as necessarily being positive at all. It's a development, but I'd put it in the neutral category. TD is playing a high risk/high stakes game of russion roulette here.

I've been saying this for weeks that we'll need the money to sign some good defensive guys and it keeps getting poo-poo'd by being told that we have $8M bucks to spend. Well, now we're under $7 presumably, and what, we've got some guy named Posey! Big deal. Meanwhile, another $5M is tied up w/ Price. Wit that money we could sign Peterson (over Price in an equal swap), Thornton, and Johnstone easily.

But NOOOO!!! We've gotta play games w/ Price in holding out for a late first round pick that will only cost us more money that we may not have and that is no guarantee either.

I just don't get it. Let's fix this blasted D and get on with it. I'm tired of signing "bargain" players that we are told will help the team. B.S.

Let's sign some that actually will! Where are the Bruce Smiths, Daryl Talleys, Chris Spielmans, and others that made us great in the '90s. Two CBs ain't cuttin' it.

[clumping platelets]

By signing the 1 yr tender, Price IS "property" of the Bills and is under contract. He couldn't talk to other teams without permission from the Bills

Just trade him

[WG]

Indeed!

And this also assumes that there's a ton of interest for him out there as well. So far in spite of all the fan enthusiasm on this board and amongst Bills fans in general, and understandably so, I haven't read a thing other than about a "visit" to Atlanta.

I would assume that if they are serious about trading a first rounder then we'll here some news today or tomorrow about how the visit went swimmingly.

If not, then who are we gonna trade him to that will give us a first rounder? I'm not exactly seeing teams leap at the opportunity to make such a trade. It may simply come down to taking a third rounder or something less. Will TD do that? Or is he so hell bent on winning this negotiation with McGee that it's gonna cost the team?

I'll say this now, this thing with Price is getting so high profile, that TD's offseason performance is gonna live or die with this Price thing if it goes beyond this week.

[TypicalBill]

Im with ya Wys, TD needs to get this Price thing over with or we'll miss a lot of the players we've targetted before the offseason. This thing better happen quick.

[WG]

And let's face it too, we're not gonna fix the D by signing low cost players. We're simply gonna have to sign a proven player or two that may cost us something more than $2M. That's just life in the NFL these days.

Someone cited the example of N.E. in another thread and how they did it, but they had a general level of talent everywhere. We don't. We have non-starters at one DT position, one DE position, 1 LB position, arguably 2 after we see Posey's contributions. One of our S positions could use an upgrade.

N.E. didn't have such holes.

[WG]

I just wanna see something positive soon. Something that excites us defensively.

[Earthquake Enyart]

What do you want him to do, let Price get away for nothing?

[WG]

If it means signing Peterson and some DT help, then yes.

If to get a draft pick while we sign 4 other players like Posey, then yes!

If we can get the draft pick, GREAT! Heck, let's get two first rounders. But how long are we willing to wait on this. I'm not saying time is up, but Noble just signed along with many other players, some of which would have suited us.

I just think that this foregone assumption that every team out there views Price as a first round pick is presumptuous. Bledsoe barely went for a first last year. If we hadn't offered it, he wouldn't have! Who's better? Price or Bledsoe? Which position is easier to fill generally speaking? QB or WR?

This assuming that we're gonna get a first is silly. We may, but if we do, I suspect it will happen this week sometime. McGee ain't gonna wait until all the teams who desparately need a WR fill up their cap room before signing our offer.

The question to you is who is more valuable to us this year coming up? A Peterson, or Price? Even if we just drop the tag, the money can be used for a Peterson. BUT, only if he's still available, not after other teams sign him, eh.

[kgun12]

Wys First off I agree with you almost totally, I wish we would have never tagged him. Now that we have, the reason I think this is a good thing is when TD says he is sole property of the Bills. See to me PP and his agent want to cash in big with this contract. If PP is bound by the one year contract, he can't until next year, and there in lies PP problem. What if he gets hurt, and what if this year was just cause he was in a contract year? These are the things PP and his agent have to think about. So the threat of PP signing the 1 year deal is now just a threat, cause they know TD won't trade him after it is signed, but there is hope TD will trade him if he doesn't sign.
If we tagged him ets make it worth wild.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I would rather see TD make the best deal for Price, even if it takes some time, that to run out and overpay for a guy like Peterson. If you go out and overpay, you'll be stuck with that decision for years to come.

So, yeah, I'd rather see him sign 4 Posey's and get a couple of decent draft picks than let Price go for nothing and spend $5+ for a LB who has never played in a Pro Bowl.

[Buffarama]

I hate to see Price go because he is very good. But we need defensive help, there's no way around it. TD hasn't lost anything by not making a move yet. This week will be telling.
Don't forget, TD is a freakin football animal.

[clumping platelets]

We still have $6.8 million to play with.........that's plenty of money to sign players. TD can still create millions as well. I think TD has done an incredible job in 2 yrs and not EVERY move is gonna work out as hoped.

[WG]

4 more players like Posey and our D won't be any better and we'll be out of cap.

kgun,

I hear ya. I don't disagree with the tag, IF, it gets resolved quickly. Price is expendible. Right now we don't even have qualified starters in several key positions on D.

You have to look at the marginal utility of each situation. Peterson for the same bucks we'd spend on Price to me would be a good deal. I don't think Peterson would be more, possibly even less. While having Price here would be nice, it's absolutely not necessary and there's a chance that the O wouldn't miss a beat w/ him gone given Reed's quick development.

Unfortunately, we can't say the same thing about the D. It's a mess. We have essentially 8 starters out of 11 and that's with Posey as a starter. WLB, DT, DE we have currently no valid starters for. To boot, of those 8 starters, 4 of them are marginal in Prioleau, Wire, Posey, and Schobel. They're decent, but will only cut the mustard w/ a D around them.

I'm still holding out hope that Wire becomes an animal in the Ray Lynch mold. But it took Lynch 4 seasons and Wire wasn't an animal last year although he showed promise. Prioleau and Schobel are decent, but nothing to write home about. Posey, well, based on his past record, which is all we have to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if he were the weak link on our D this upcoming season.

But again, the bottom line, you have to look at the marginal utility and the upgrade at each position. Kind of like going from 3-13 to 8-8. Getting Peterson would be the record equivalent of going from 3-13 to 12-4 at the LB position whereas Price to Reed may be 13-3 to 11-5.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by clumping platelets
We still have $6.8 million to play with.........that's plenty of money to sign players. TD can still create millions as well. I think TD has done an incredible job in 2 yrs and not EVERY move is gonna work out as hoped.

AMEN!!!!

Too early to start grading TD's offseason moves. Anyone remember how late in the FA Drew was signed?

[WG]

Then why are so many saying how great he's doing so far?

I agree, this is far from over.

My big concern now is that TD's concerns are not to lose face over this Price thing. If he has to drop the tag it won't make him look good. I'm fearful that his personal challenge of this Price thing will interfere w/ what's best for the team. Obviously it's not best to let all the best and/or most appropriate for the Bills FAs slip away while we have a ton of bucks tied up.

We'll see. This is just the beginning. There's a long way to go. But you can't blame those of us who aren't exactly crooning over Posey's signing, eh. Campbell is only a backup so there's only so much excitement to derive there although he was a very good b/u signing.

[Earthquake Enyart]

8 sacks playing part time is nothing to sneeze at, especially as sack challenged as we were last year.

I think TD got a bargain.

[Billz_fan]

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6224285

about 3/4 down the page.



Look for the Bills to extend an offer sheet to Bengals linebacker Takeo Spikes. The Bills love him as a player and feel that if they structure a deal the right way, the Bengals might not match the offer. Bengals coach Marvin Lewis has told some people around the league that if a guy doesn't want to be in Cincinnati then he doesn't want him around. Spikes has made it clear he wants out. Spikes is a good player who can run well, something the Bills need.

[Ebenezer]

Wys, you got to remember TD could be burning up the phones, there is no guarentee that players want to play here. You have an inexperienced head coach with little direction on Def...that coach is going into the last year of a deal. You have the coldest winter in 25 years here in B-lo...there could be a myriad of reasons. We will never know how many phone calls TD made and how many times that phone was hung up.

I'd like to see something more but you never really know in FA.

[WG]

Just b/c we "extend an offer sheet" does not mean that he will sign. And at last check, if he takes that, we'd owe 2 first rounders, no?

I don't expect that to happen since it would consume all of our remaining cap.



Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
8 sacks playing part time is nothing to sneeze at, especially as sack challenged as we were last year.

I think TD got a bargain.


A bargain, huh?

Newman had 8 sacks only three seasons ago. Actually, his performances have only gone down after the switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and with only limited opportunities by the Williams staff.

Posey has done far less in several more seasons and now makes the same exact switch to a 4-3 that many say was the cause of Newman's demise.

So I hardly think getting Posey for nearly $2M/yr. was any sort of a bargain unless of course he all of a sudden starts to play just like he never has in 6 seasons. In fact, we run a greater risk that he turns out to be a bust too.

Anyone remember what we were spoon fed about Robinson by the same people telling us now that Posey was a great signing?

I do!

[WG]

BTW, also from the same article:

"Peterson, by the way, is said to be asking for $4 million a year for his new contract."

At $4M he'd be a very good sign. It would also leave us with some cash left to sign Thornton and/or Johnstone pending the Price thing.

I also don't think Prisco knows WTH he's talking about regarding the Bills. If the Bills give up two first rounders for Spikes, it'd be nuts. TD would have to be a fool to pay high bucks and 2 first rounders for Spikes when Peterson or Colvin would be available for a fraction of that w/ no picks.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Playing the Robinson card is a low blow.

[Romes]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Just b/c we "extend an offer sheet" does not mean that he will sign. And at last check, if he takes that, we'd owe 2 first rounders, no?

I don't expect that to happen since it would consume all of our remaining cap.


Spikes had a transition tag placed on him not a franchise tag. Meaning the Bengals have the right to match our offer but they don't get any compensation.

[WG]

Well, OK, one first rounder then. Still isn't worth it, or doable since we have no first rounder, eh.

Prisco still doesn't know WTH he's talking about.

[Voltron]

No Wys, IMHO you don't know what you are talking about. I have read 3 articles from the front page that said Posey was a good signing and a bargain. On top of that you still haven't realized that we will owe the Bengals nothing! If they don't match or better the offer then we take him and they get squat!

Did you watch any film of posey? Do you know how fast he is? Do you know if he can shed blocks well? You judge someone on numbers and not how they play the position. I agree with your statement about this tagging I think it will end up screwing up our whole off-season but what else would you have TD do? He can't just let the most talked about rec. in FA go away and get nothing for him. So he deals with it the only way he can with a tag.

[WG]

You're correct, I stand corrected on the TA. Confusing things here.

APOLOGIES!

As to the "articles", I also remember reading a bunch about how great Jenkins and Robinson were. Do you think there's any subjectivity there?!

Jenkins lost out to a rookie and Robinson was arguably the worst player on the D this past season.

So pardon me if I discount the "articles" somewhat...

;)

Thanks for the correction however. I knew that but was simply having too many thoughts scream thru my head. It was painful, but now that I've stuck a pin into my temple, the pressure's been relieved...

:D

[Earthquake Enyart]

Try a 10 penny nail. You'll feel much better.

[WG]

Originally posted by Voltron
Did you watch any film of posey? Do you know how fast he is? Do you know if he can shed blocks well? You judge someone on numbers and not how they play the position.

BTW, I've only watched limited of him.

But if he's so marvelous, then how come he's been a career backup for 6 seasons? Even this year in Houston he didn't start all the games.

Why is Houston reportedly just as happy if not happier w/ the thought of replacing Posey w/ Newman.

Take a look at Posey's stats and contributions for crying out loud. What on earth has he done to excite anyone. A solid backup, certainly. More than an average starter, I doubt it. Unless of course it's taken him 6 years to "come to his full potential."

What do you think the chances of that are, eh?

If he's so fast and can shed blockers so well, then how come he doesn't appear to be better? What does he do after he sheds those blocks, tie his opponents' shoes? Or what? Where's he been? How come none of his coaches have seen this marvelous talent in 5 prior seasons? Were they stupid? Seifert, Capers, Coughlin?

Funny, Drew is measured by yardage, attempts, and completions and anything intangible or the negative stuff is dismissed, by you, and now we're supposed to see that it's the intangibles that supercede the tangibles.

Hmmm....

If you think he's that marvelous, then post a poll asking how many fans think he's gonna improve the D anything significantly.

;)

[Judge]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


So far this offseason I'm not too incredibly impressed.

That's like saying you're not impressed with the team's season after the opening kickoff of week 1.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Judge


That's like saying you're not impressed with the team's season after the opening kickoff of week 1.


Come on Judge…..Look at who we’re talking about! Did you expect anything else.

[WG]

As usual, Judge to be counted on for the liberal non-substantive logic...

:D


I'll sum up for ya voltron and perhaps this will clarify my reasoning apart from only one year in 6 of any sort of performance worthy of starting status in the NFL.

Posey played on a very good defense with talent just about everywhere and on a team that couldn't keep the D off the field and one which played a 3-4 playing into his skills. Ie., it was on the field often and with very good talent.

Posey only then played well as he never has in 5 prior seasons and on teams largely with decent Ds.

So I expect that that is about the best that Posey will ever do with there being plenty of downside and little upside.

Again, time will bear out what kind of player he is. Neither of us knows for sure how he'll do in Buffalo.

[BillC]

:deadhorse:

[BillC]

Originally posted by BillC
:deadhorse:

That's gotta be a new record- he's been a bill for what- 61 hours?

[ArcticWildMan]

Originally posted by BillC
:deadhorse:


:lol:

[kgun12]

Wys to be fair about Robinson, EVERYBODY and I mean EVERYBODY wanted us to sign this guy. Than when we did this board was buring up with excitement! I know we all want something to happen, and it's killing us, but we need to sit back and let this offseason unfold. TD has money to play with. I garuntee you and everybody else, he isn't going into this season with $6 million in his pocket!

[Voltron]

Posey was a DE and played as that for the 49ers for 2 years I believe before they converted him to OLB. He had to learn a new position that he had never played before. Since he has learned that position he has gotten exponentaly better. Lets get off of the robinson deal because posey is 28 and robinson is just old :D. I see a lot of up with this kid. If he sucks then we cut him with out taking a big hit on the cap. (1.75 mil bonus)

I hope that we sign some one big soon because I don't really care to much for the wait and see but I am not any where close to having the knowledge to be a GM/Pres. of a pop warner team let alone an NFL one ;).