Ridiculous babble

[Bill Brasky]

Bills should build stadium closer to Rochester

(December 14, 2006) — The NFL Dallas Cowboys revealed specifics on their lavish new $1 billion stadium on Tuesday night, Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson again is warning that the league's small-market teams are doomed under the current system, and the Buffalo News reports that 47-year-old Lancaster Raceway Park is for sale.

My mind immediately linked the three items to the future of the Bills.

It is only a matter of time before the ever-growing corporate giant NFL puts pressure on the Bills to build a splendiferous new stadium for the team to remain financially competitive and maximize the revenue split among the 32 teams.

New York state taxpayers will be called upon to build this shrine to the NFL gods. There will be much public debate on the subject — and justifiably so.

I expect that the money ultimately would be approved to build a state-of-the-art facility, including many more of the private boxes that pad the revenue of the big-market teams. I can't see how policymakers in Albany could allow the NFL to abandon western New York. Losing the Bills would be catastrophic in terms of regional morale and national recognition.

If and when the stadium is built, it should be somewhere between Buffalo and Rochester. A site near Lancaster Raceway Park, only a few miles east of the first Buffalo Thruway exit, would be ideal.


http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061214/SPORTS0101/612140332/tbd/

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If the Bills are to survive here, it's not going to be because of the "tons of people" coming from points East. This guy obviously forgot that Buffalo is right next to one of the fastest growing areas in North America - Southern Ontario. Between the Buffalo and Toronto corridor here is a population base of nearly 10 million people... Buffalo and Rochester - 2, maybe 2.5 million. Southern Ontario alone is projected to grow to nearly 12 million people within the next 20 years. I don't see that kind of growth anywhere in NYS, and for the Bills to survive here the team needs to be easily accessible to that population base, not the dying municipalities in Upstate NY. There are just as many, if not more, people treking from S.O. to the games compared to those from places like Roch, Syr, etc.

Secondly, building a new stadium in another suburb is stupid, pointless even. For this team, area, and city to rebound economically it needs to hit a home run. This stadium cannot simply be a football stadium - it has to be a year-round facility in a central location, not out in a suburb to be used 10 times a year.

I am 110% against a domed building, but a roof is needed for this type of facility. Maybe build a stadium with a retractable roof. The roof can be open for sporting events (Bills, etc) and closed for everything else. Buffalo needs a state of the art facility that can double as a sports venue, convention center, etc. A new building could suit all the needs. Add hotels, venues (restaurants, pubs, etc) into part of the design and turn it into a gathering place, a major municipal complex instead of just a "stadium".

Putting an all-purpose building downtown with access to the 190, 90, 33, 5, etc will do wonders for the economy and should be able to handle the traffic issues. It will still be a 60-90 minute drive for those coming from Roch (wow, a Lancaster facilty cuts that drive down a whopping 10-15 minutes), Southern Tier, parts of PA, and people having to sit at the bridges won't have to deal with the congested mess that is the Thruway and/or 219 out in the burbs.

I think a lot of people are looking at this whole issue the wrong way, and a stadium "halfway between Roch and Buf" is more a deathnail than an advantage. It needs to be more than just "a stadium", people need to look at is a hub for activity, similar to what has been done in places like Baltimore. Build where the people are, where there's a need and desire for economic development, and where it's accessible for everyone, not a few thousand travelers from the east.

[justasportsfan]

A wysman did suggest Batavia. I wonder where he is these days :snicker:


we'd lose the cannucks.

[Bill Brasky]

Batavia is even worse.

[BillsNick]

I am originally from Rochester, and whenever I fly up, I stay there and go to games from Rochester.

Having said that, I care about Buffalo, and I totally support a stadium being built in downtown Buffalo. The city needs it, the fans need it, and the team needs it. All this "between the Roc and Buffalo" talk is not the answer. I would also support it if it happened that way, but I really think that it should be downtown Buffalo.

[justasportsfan]

I am originally from Rochester, and whenever I fly up, I stay there and go to games from Rochester.

Having said that, I care about Buffalo, and I totally support a stadium being built in downtown Buffalo. The city needs it, the fans need it, and the team needs it. All this "between the Roc and Buffalo" talk is not the answer. I would also support it if it happened that way, but I really think that it should be downtown Buffalo.
SAme here. Moving the bills wouldn't be the BUFFALO bills anymore even if it's just nearby Rochacha.

[Dude]

If the Bills are to survive here, it's not going to be because of the "tons of people" coming from points East. This guy obviously forgot that Buffalo is right next to one of the fastest growing areas in North America - Southern Ontario. Between the Buffalo and Toronto corridor here is a population base of nearly 10 million people... Buffalo and Rochester - 2, maybe 2.5 million. Southern Ontario alone is projected to grow to nearly 12 million people within the next 20 years. I don't see that kind of growth anywhere in NYS, and for the Bills to survive here the team needs to be easily accessible to that population base, not the dying municipalities in Upstate NY. There are just as many, if not more, people treking from S.O. to the games compared to those from places like Roch, Syr, etc.

Secondly, building a new stadium in another suburb is stupid, pointless even. For this team, area, and city to rebound economically it needs to hit a home run. This stadium cannot simply be a football stadium - it has to be a year-round facility in a central location, not out in a suburb to be used 10 times a year.

I am 110% against a domed building, but a roof is needed for this type of facility. Maybe build a stadium with a retractable roof. The roof can be open for sporting events (Bills, etc) and closed for everything else. Buffalo needs a state of the art facility that can double as a sports venue, convention center, etc. A new building could suit all the needs. Add hotels, venues (restaurants, pubs, etc) into part of the design and turn it into a gathering place, a major municipal complex instead of just a "stadium".

Putting an all-purpose building downtown with access to the 190, 90, 33, 5, etc will do wonders for the economy and should be able to handle the traffic issues. It will still be a 60-90 minute drive for those coming from Roch (wow, a Lancaster facilty cuts that drive down a whopping 10-15 minutes), Southern Tier, parts of PA, and people having to sit at the bridges won't have to deal with the congested mess that is the Thruway and/or 219 out in the burbs.

I think a lot of people are looking at this whole issue the wrong way, and a stadium "halfway between Roch and Buf" is more a deathnail than an advantage. It needs to be more than just "a stadium", people need to look at is a hub for activity, similar to what has been done in places like Baltimore. Build where the people are, where there's a need and desire for economic development, and where it's accessible for everyone, not a few thousand travelers from the east.:bf1:

[Jeff1220]

Jfreeman, you should use this write-up to repsond to the article in a good old-fashioned letter to the editor.

[Bill Brasky]

I don't have all the answers, I'm sure somebody could add suggestions, but I think it's a feasable start. These discussions need to start happening NOW if this team is serious about staying. Speaking with politicians in the area I know there are already behind-the-scenes talks about the future of this team - let's just say the idea of buying the Bills has been put into the heads of some prominent businesspeople - so even if Ralph refuses to discuss it, it's already being talked about behind closed doors. The community leaders really don't want to see this team walk.

But as somebody who does a considerable amount of driving, working in Rochester, and previously driving from Long Island to go to home games, I think it's ridiculous to plop an expensive structure in a lame suburb so a few thousand people don't have a drive an extra 10-15 minutes.

If you're coming from Roch, Syr, Albany, etc, you're already driving, what's an extra 10 minutes?

Put it downtown where the massive costs can be justified by spurring development.

The commute arguement is trivial to me.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Shumer said on the news last night that he and the state govt will do everything in their power to keep the bills here.

Lancaster speedway would be a prime central location but I don't see why it wouldn't be built downtown. I can't see the state or local govts ponying up money for a stadium that doesn't spur any growth at all. Make the stadium a retractable dome that has multipurpose use(ie convention center) put it on the waterfront near the canal project and boom we got something going.

Batavia is closer to Rochester than Buffalo. That would be a HORRENDOUS location. Being from Buffalo I had never even been to Batavia even once until I started going out with my girlfriend(from Batavia) There is nothing in that town and it is like 35 minutes from Buffalo.

[ICE74129]

LMAO typical buffalonians. A possible solution forms to save the team, and a good one at that, and you ***** because it might not be in buffalo. Friggin brilliant!

You people can't get out of your own way. 'we want it but we want it our way' uh sorry it doesn't work like that. If putting the Bills in between Buffalo and Rochester got them a new stadium, owner and kept them in WNY then so be it.

[BillsNick]

Oh boy. Here we go.

:movie:

[THATHURMANATOR]

LMAO typical buffalonians. A possible solution forms to save the team, and a good one at that, and you ***** because it might not be in buffalo. Friggin brilliant!

You people can't get out of your own way. 'we want it but we want it our way' uh sorry it doesn't work like that. If putting the Bills in between Buffalo and Rochester got them a new stadium, owner and kept them in WNY then so be it.
Don't you see though how we feel that it is a waste of time in the Lancaster speedway location?? It really isn't that much further to go from there to Orchard park(15 mins) Why spend all that money on a stadium that is used 8 times a year? It doesn't make sense in my mind. Also ICE don't you think that Buffalo needs to be smart if they want to turn the city as a whole around and that in turn will benefit the Bills?

If this is the only solution to keep the Bills here I wouldnt' have any problems whatsoever!

[gil]

LMAO typical buffalonians. A possible solution forms to save the team, and a good one at that, and you ***** because it might not be in buffalo. Friggin brilliant!

You people can't get out of your own way. 'we want it but we want it our way' uh sorry it doesn't work like that. If putting the Bills in between Buffalo and Rochester got them a new stadium, owner and kept them in WNY then so be it.

a possible solution? from who, a Rochester Columnist? I think I see the State Senate speeding back to Albany to implement that right away!

and yes, typical Buffalonians, wanting an economic development project to happen in the heart of their city - geez, what will they want next, jobs to return to the city too? - have they no shame?

sorry for the sarcasm, I don't live there anymore, but I think downtown buffalo has a lot of potential and if it takes something like this to make it happen, then so be it - I, for one, would love to see it happen.

[THATHURMANATOR]

a possible solution? from who, a Rochester Columnist? I think I see the State Senate speeding back to Albany to implement that right away!

and yes, typical Buffalonians, wanting an economic development project to happen in the heart of their city - geez, what will they want next, jobs to return to the city too? - have they no shame?

sorry for the sarcasm, I don't live there anymore, but I think downtown buffalo has a lot of potential and if it takes something like this to make it happen, then so be it - I, for one, would love to see it happen.
You get it. Ice lives in Tulsa.

[DynaPaul]

Build it near Albany, ha ha... That way I could get season tickets!

[Bill Brasky]

LMAO typical buffalonians. A possible solution forms to save the team, and a good one at that, and you ***** because it might not be in buffalo. Friggin brilliant!

You people can't get out of your own way. 'we want it but we want it our way' uh sorry it doesn't work like that. If putting the Bills in between Buffalo and Rochester got them a new stadium, owner and kept them in WNY then so be it.

Typical solution for who? The 5,000 Rochester fans that don't want to drive an extra 10 minutes to go to 2 games a year?

Have you ever sat at border traffic... or been to a game recently and seen the amount of Canadian license plates on cars in the lots? Putting a football stadium and nothing else in an eastern suburb with nothing to offer makes no sense.

Batavia is even worse.

I have an idea... let's put a 10-use stadium in the middle of nowhere when we could instead build a multi-use facility in the heart of a bi-regional city.

BTW: I've been to Tulsa. That place sucks. As evident by the massive amounts of nothing is has to offer.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Typical solution for who? The 5,000 Rochester fans that don't want to drive an extra 10 minutes to go to 2 games a year?

Have you ever sat at border traffic... or been to a game recently and seen the amount of Canadian license plates on cars in the lots? Putting a football stadium and nothing else in an eastern suburb with nothing to offer makes no sense.

Batavia is even worse.

I have an idea... let's put a 10-use stadium in the middle of nowhere when we could instead build a multi-use facility in the heart of a bi-regional city.

BTW: I've been to Tulsa. That place sucks. As evident by the massive amounts of nothing is has to offer.

Word up Freeman.

Ice acts like Tulsa is some burgening empire!

You going to the game?

[Bill Brasky]

You going to the game?

I'd never let the season tickets go to waste... even if I wasn't a season ticket holder I wouldn't miss a Miami game.

I could think of only a few matchups I'd pay an arm and a leg to see... Sabres/Leafs, Sabres/Flyers, Bills/Pats... but the Bills/Phins to me is still the biggest and most important game that any team in this town plays every year and to not sell it out is absolutely absurd.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Nice man! Lets get HAMMERED!

[Bill Brasky]

I'll be there bright eyed and busy tailed between 730-8 just like every other week... though this weekend I doubt I'll go to bed Sat night.

I think I might have to bust out the burger king outfit again this week, works every time!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wait you are the guy that wears the BK outfit?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Where do you sit freeman?

[Bill Brasky]

141 row 30.

i sat in the jim kelly suite for the chargers game... that totally sucked. people in those sections are so f'n boring. i got yelled at by some guy for standing up and cheering on 3rd down. i wanted to move down to my normal seats.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Nice I could never sit in those sections. They would hate me!

[Bill Brasky]

Nice I could never sit in those sections. They would hate me!

I hated it. A buddy got the seats through work so I gave my season ticket to somebody else. I'll never sit there again.

The luxury boxes are nice, though.

Where do you sit thurm... if I wear the King outfit I'll come rowdy up your section.

[THATHURMANATOR]

122 row 13. Right on the tunnel man!!! GET THERE!!! My buddies a couple sections over would **** their pants if they saw the king. They love those comercials.

[Bill Brasky]

We have the mask AND the robe!! It gets people fired up. It is like a full time job so me and my buddy alternate who wears it every week.

Where do you guys tailgate at? Lecter knows where our shennanegans take place, you guys should stop over and pay a visit to THE KINGS OF TAILGATING

[THATHURMANATOR]

We have the mask AND the robe!! It gets people fired up. It is like a full time job so me and my buddy alternate who wears it every week.

Where do you guys tailgate at? Lecter knows where our shennanegans take place, you guys should stop over and pay a visit to THE KINGS OF TAILGATING
Lot five Take a left when coming in the main entrance. Then about 5 poles in right by the road.

I should get over there. I have a bunch of stops to make Sunday!

[Statman]

Bills should build stadium closer to Rochester
I think a lot of people are looking at this whole issue the wrong way, and a stadium "halfway between Roch and Buf" is more a deathnail than an advantage. It needs to be more than just "a stadium", people need to look at is a hub for activity, similar to what has been done in places like Baltimore. Build where the people are, where there's a need and desire for economic development, and where it's accessible for everyone, not a few thousand travelers from the east.
First of all, how many season ticket holders do you think there are in Ontario?

Second of all, it's a good 1/2 hour from the Lancaster area, probably a bit more, and even longer on game days in traffic. You don't think that shaving 30-60+ minutes off of a drive to a stadium for people potentially coming from over an hour away is significant?

Did Friday happy hour come early this week?

Activity around the stadium is one of the last things that has to do with anything. The Skins play basically in the middle of a business park with nada in the vacinity.

Foxborough's out in the middle of nowhere.

Texas Stadium also isn't centered in any "downtown" locale and those are, I believe, the three most successful teams from an attendance standpoint in the league at present.

Lancaster, Batavia, Darian Lake area... all good. It's not a minute further for most Buffalonians or Ontarians.

[Statman]

Not to mention you wouldn't have 90% of the traffic coming from one direction coming and going.

[Statman]

141 row 30.

i sat in the jim kelly suite for the chargers game... that totally sucked. people in those sections are so f'n boring. i got yelled at by some guy for standing up and cheering on 3rd down. i wanted to move down to my normal seats.
Been there too.

It's fun once or before games, but that's about it. After that gotta be outside with the real fans.

[justasportsfan]

Not to mention you wouldn't have 90% of the traffic coming from one direction coming and going.

Plus there's Garbage plate.

[Statman]

Is that the new nickname for the Bills' free agency program?

[THATHURMANATOR]

First of all, how many season ticket holders do you think there are in Ontario?

Second of all, it's a good 1/2 hour from the Lancaster area, probably a bit more, and even longer on game days in traffic. You don't think that shaving 30-60+ minutes off of a drive to a stadium for people potentially coming from over an hour away is significant?

Did Friday happy hour come early this week?

Activity around the stadium is one of the last things that has to do with anything. The Skins play basically in the middle of a business park with nada in the vacinity.

Foxborough's out in the middle of nowhere.

Texas Stadium also isn't centered in any "downtown" locale and those are, I believe, the three most successful teams from an attendance standpoint in the league at present.

Lancaster, Batavia, Darian Lake area... all good. It's not a minute further for most Buffalonians or Ontarians.

There are probably an equal amount of Ontario ticket holders as there are Rochester. We are surrounded by Canadians in my section.

[Statman]

I have yet to see a single Canadian license plate in the lots.

[hammerbillsfan]

:meh:

[THATHURMANATOR]

First of all, how many season ticket holders do you think there are in Ontario?

Second of all, it's a good 1/2 hour from the Lancaster area, probably a bit more, and even longer on game days in traffic. You don't think that shaving 30-60+ minutes off of a drive to a stadium for people potentially coming from over an hour away is significant?

Did Friday happy hour come early this week?

Activity around the stadium is one of the last things that has to do with anything. The Skins play basically in the middle of a business park with nada in the vacinity.

Foxborough's out in the middle of nowhere.

Texas Stadium also isn't centered in any "downtown" locale and those are, I believe, the three most successful teams from an attendance standpoint in the league at present.

Lancaster, Batavia, Darian Lake area... all good. It's not a minute further for most Buffalonians or Ontarians.

There are probably an equal amount of Ontario ticket holders as there are Rochester(or at least close). We are surrounded by Canadians in my section. A stadium downtown is an additional 10- 15 minutes from the lancaster site for Rochestarians. Not sure how slow you drive that it could be anywhere near 30 mins let alone 60... HOLY S!

Plus all the examples you give are large cities with no problems. We need to model it after smaller cities that had the same problems Buffalo has ie Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincy. They all put stadiums downtown and are benefiting financially from it. Sounds like you are the one hitting the bottle man.

[Statman]

I know quite a few people that come from Rochester and even Syracuse.

Call the stadium or write a letter asking them how many season ticket holders are in Canada. They'll probably tell you.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I have yet to see a single Canadian license plate in the lots.
You are joking right?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Plus many of them come over on Greyhounds on chartered bus tours.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I know quite a few people that come from Rochester and even Syracuse.

Call the stadium or write a letter asking them how many season ticket holders are in Canada. They'll probably tell you.
Why don't you? I don't care either way. There are a lot of canadians at every game bottom line.

[justasportsfan]

There are probably an equal amount of Ontario ticket holders as there are Rochester. We are surrounded by Canadians in my section.
canadians can easily be replaced by the Amish

[hammerbillsfan]

:nono:

[THATHURMANATOR]

canadians can easily be replaced by the Amish
Beer sales would drop 50% at least though..

[justasportsfan]

Beer sales would drop 50% at least though..
cool. We won't have bills fans sleeping in the middle of a game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lot five Take a left when coming in the main entrance. Then about 5 poles in right by the road.

I should get over there. I have a bunch of stops to make Sunday!
Freeman you near this?

[hammerbillsfan]

:boozer:

[Bill Brasky]

First of all, how many season ticket holders do you think there are in Ontario?

Second of all, it's a good 1/2 hour from the Lancaster area, probably a bit more, and even longer on game days in traffic. You don't think that shaving 30-60+ minutes off of a drive to a stadium for people potentially coming from over an hour away is significant?

Did Friday happy hour come early this week?

Activity around the stadium is one of the last things that has to do with anything. The Skins play basically in the middle of a business park with nada in the vacinity.

Foxborough's out in the middle of nowhere.

Texas Stadium also isn't centered in any "downtown" locale and those are, I believe, the three most successful teams from an attendance standpoint in the league at present.

Lancaster, Batavia, Darian Lake area... all good. It's not a minute further for most Buffalonians or Ontarians.

Alright, well, I work in Rochester, at a pretty big company, and not 1 single person here has season tickets. Not 1! And I think maybe 5 or 6 people I've talked to have gone to 1 game this year. I walk through the parking lots at the Ralph and see TONS of Ontario plates... I don't think people this side of the lake have the plates for pure show. Tailgate at the stadium, ask people where they are from... I bet you get more "canadians" than "rochesterians".

2nd point I could care less about. I used to drive 7 hours one way to come to games. People driving an hour have no reason to *****. I don't know what route you take, but from Lancaster to Downtown via the 33 or the 90 to 190 is no more than 20 minutes tops. Putting a stadium right downtown next to all the available routes spreads all the traffic out in every direction, so you can't play the "everybody's going 1 way" argument. Putting it in Lancaster basically gives everybody the option of going east or west on the 90 and that's it... how is that better than giving people to go North/South (190, 5, to the 219, etc) or East/West (33, 90, etc)?

3rd, I could care less where the Skins, Pats, and Texans play or what their stadiums are like. Nor do I care what their attendance figures are like. You're talking major metropolitan areas that have the luxury of putting a stadium out in the middle of nowhere because they can piss away $600 million on a single-use facility.

Buffalo is drastically different than pretty much every football market. What works here probably won't work elsewhere and vice versa... you can thank NYS for that. It's also one of the highest taxed areas in the entire US. There is absolutely NO WAY the tax payers here are going to foot the bill for just a "football stadium". It has to be a multi-use facility, and it makes absolutely no sense to put a major facility in a suburb with no infastructure to handle the surplus of people and no economic development happening.

Contrary to the belief of many pessimists in and around WNY, Buffalo is not a dying city, and it's alot better than most other cities in the US. People here just don't realize it becuase they are 1) pessimistic about EVERYTHING and always have a 'woe is me' attitude 2) have never seen how the rest of the country lives.

I know I can speak for a lot of people when I say it would kick ass to have a stadium downtown. It would bring a new blood into the downtown... shops, bars, restaurants would pop up all over the place, esp if it's located next to HSBC and Pilot Field. It would be THE PLACE to be. And like I said, add hotels into the design of the facility... MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY in the area and businesses will come. I don't want to be out in the burbs and have nothing but the drive home to look forward to... I want to stay and ride the experience... and I think most would agree.

[Statman]

There are probably an equal amount of Ontario ticket holders as there are Rochester(or at least close). We are surrounded by Canadians in my section. A stadium downtown is an additional 10- 15 minutes from the lancaster site for Rochestarians. Not sure how slow you drive that it could be anywhere near 30 mins let alone 60... HOLY S!

Plus all the examples you give are large cities with no problems. We need to model it after smaller cities that had the same problems Buffalo has ie Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincy. They all put stadiums downtown and are benefiting financially from it. Sounds like you are the one hitting the bottle man.
OK then, how does placing a stadium exclusively used for football help the team and lend itself to keeping the team in the region more?

I've heard of a downtown stadium benefitting the municipality that it's in if it's used for other things, but never the team. Explain.

Secondly, don't be a poster boy for the old Reading is Fundamental program.

Even for fans in Cheektowaga it's a good 20 minutes to the game no traffic. RWS is 12+ miles from the stadium. There's always traffic and lights no matter which way you go. When you add in all the other traffic going to the game which all gets funneled right down 90 and 219 it just slows things down. Not everyone leaps out of bed at 3:30 a.m., crams down a bowl of Flutie Flakes, wipes their mouth with their McGahee napkin and rushes off to the stadium before the roosters have even gotten up like you do.

Lancaster's no farther for anyone in central or northern Buffalo and the Darian Lakes Batavia area is another whopping 10 minutes down I-90. But the difference for people coming from Rochester or Syracuse is the difference in time it would take to get from there to OP which is a good half hour when you factor in the lights, tolls, etc.

Sorry if the commute time for you Buffalonians would increase to 30 minutes maybe, but hey, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Putting a stadium further east would also help increase the TV market hopefully which is what really drives things here. The closer you get to that NYC market the better off it is.

Canadians could cross at Grand Island/NF and it wouldn't be a minute further than it is now to OP and maybe even less time.

You'd have fans coming from both sides too instead of just from the North. Or do 80% of all fans come from Fredonia now too.

Seems like Buffalonians will never be convinced.

[Statman]

Alright, well, I work in Rochester, at a pretty big company, and not 1 single person here has season tickets. Not 1! And I think maybe 5 or 6 people I've talked to have gone to 1 game this year. I walk through the parking lots at the Ralph and see TONS of Ontario plates... I don't think people this side of the lake have the plates for pure show. Tailgate at the stadium, ask people where they are from... I bet you get more "canadians" than "rochesterians".

2nd point I could care less about. I used to drive 7 hours one way to come to games. People driving an hour have no reason to *****. I don't know what route you take, but from Lancaster to Downtown via the 33 or the 90 to 190 is no more than 20 minutes tops. Putting a stadium right downtown next to all the available routes spreads all the traffic out in every direction, so you can't play the "everybody's going 1 way" argument. Putting it in Lancaster basically gives everybody the option of going east or west on the 90 and that's it... how is that better than giving people to go North/South (190, 5, to the 219, etc) or East/West (33, 90, etc)?

3rd, I could care less where the Skins, Pats, and Texans play or what their stadiums are like. Nor do I care what their attendance figures are like. You're talking major metropolitan areas that have the luxury of putting a stadium out in the middle of nowhere because they can piss away $600 million on a single-use facility.

Buffalo is drastically different than pretty much every football market. What works here probably won't work elsewhere and vice versa... you can thank NYS for that. It's also one of the highest taxed areas in the entire US. There is absolutely NO WAY the tax payers here are going to foot the bill for just a "football stadium". It has to be a multi-use facility, and it makes absolutely no sense to put a major facility in a suburb with no infastructure to handle the surplus of people and no economic development happening.

Contrary to the belief of many pessimists in and around WNY, Buffalo is not a dying city, and it's alot better than most other cities in the US. People here just don't realize it becuase they are 1) pessimistic about EVERYTHING and always have a 'woe is me' attitude 2) have never seen how the rest of the country lives.

So that settles it then.

There are no season ticket holders in Rochester and for the few dozen people that do attend games there, none of them would like to save a half hour or more coming and going.

I'm sorry, I'm from Rochester and I thought I would prefer that. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Alright, well, I work in Rochester, at a pretty big company, and not 1 single person here has season tickets. Not 1! And I think maybe 5 or 6 people I've talked to have gone to 1 game this year. I walk through the parking lots at the Ralph and see TONS of Ontario plates... I don't think people this side of the lake have the plates for pure show. Tailgate at the stadium, ask people where they are from... I bet you get more "canadians" than "rochesterians".

2nd point I could care less about. I used to drive 7 hours one way to come to games. People driving an hour have no reason to *****. I don't know what route you take, but from Lancaster to Downtown via the 33 or the 90 to 190 is no more than 20 minutes tops. Putting a stadium right downtown next to all the available routes spreads all the traffic out in every direction, so you can't play the "everybody's going 1 way" argument. Putting it in Lancaster basically gives everybody the option of going east or west on the 90 and that's it... how is that better than giving people to go North/South (190, 5, to the 219, etc) or East/West (33, 90, etc)?

3rd, I could care less where the Skins, Pats, and Texans play or what their stadiums are like. Nor do I care what their attendance figures are like. You're talking major metropolitan areas that have the luxury of putting a stadium out in the middle of nowhere because they can piss away $600 million on a single-use facility.

Buffalo is drastically different than pretty much every football market. What works here probably won't work elsewhere and vice versa... you can thank NYS for that. It's also one of the highest taxed areas in the entire US. There is absolutely NO WAY the tax payers here are going to foot the bill for just a "football stadium". It has to be a multi-use facility, and it makes absolutely no sense to put a major facility in a suburb with no infastructure to handle the surplus of people and no economic development happening.

Contrary to the belief of many pessimists in and around WNY, Buffalo is not a dying city, and it's alot better than most other cities in the US. People here just don't realize it becuase they are 1) pessimistic about EVERYTHING and always have a 'woe is me' attitude 2) have never seen how the rest of the country lives.
:hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1: :hi5: :bf1:

[Statman]

That's each way by the way for an hour or two each game day.

Petty

[THATHURMANATOR]

So that settles it then.

There are no season ticket holders in Rochester and for the few dozen people that do attend games there, none of them would like to save a half hour or more coming and going.

I'm sorry, I'm from Rochester and I thought I would prefer that. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
The point is to waste millions of dollars on a stadium we would use 8 times a year just so Statman doesn't have to drive an extra 20 minutes is just plain ******ED

Did you not read Freemans post? How does that not make sense to you?

To base the building of a stadium on saving 20 mins on commutes is LUDACRIS. Plus the stadium DT would be probably a few minutes closer than Orchard park anyways so there you go!

[Statman]

Contrary to the belief of many pessimists in and around WNY, Buffalo is not a dying city, and it's alot better than most other cities in the US. People here just don't realize it becuase they are 1) pessimistic about EVERYTHING and always have a 'woe is me' attitude 2) have never seen how the rest of the country lives.

I know I can speak for a lot of people when I say it would kick ass to have a stadium downtown. It would bring a new blood into the downtown... shops, bars, restaurants would pop up all over the place, esp if it's located next to HSBC and Pilot Field. It would be THE PLACE to be. And like I said, add hotels into the design of the facility... MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY in the area and businesses will come. I don't want to be out in the burbs and have nothing but the drive home to look forward to... I want to stay and ride the experience... and I think most would agree.
You crack me up.

Have you looked at the demographics for Buffalo lately?

Also, please explain to everyone how some bars and restaurants would help the Bills stick around?

When I talk to people about why they are moving out of WNY it has absolutely nothing to do with there not being a stadium in downtown Buffalo.

You should do political comedy.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's each way by the way for an hour or two each game day.

Petty
What? English please.

[Statman]

Oh, but sorry, I've talked to thousands that have stated that they would move to Buffalo in a heartbeat if the Bills build a stadium in downtown Buffalo.

[Bill Brasky]

Freeman you near this?

We tailgate by regional lot 1, right where the players drive in... in the grass lot behind the field house. Out of all the lots I've tailgated in, it's the best, which is why we've made it our home away from home. :up:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Oh, but sorry, I've talked to thousands that have stated that they would move to Buffalo in a heartbeat if the Bills build a stadium in downtown Buffalo.
Don't be stupid.

Should the city just give up and write everything off or should they start somewhere.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We tailgate by regional lot 1, right where the players drive in... in the grass lot behind the field house. Out of all the lots I've tailgated in, it's the best, which is why we've made it our home away from home. :up:
So near the pinto gate? I know where this is.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You crack me up.

Have you looked at the demographics for Buffalo lately?

Also, please explain to everyone how some bars and restaurants would help the Bills stick around?

When I talk to people about why they are moving out of WNY it has absolutely nothing to do with there not being a stadium in downtown Buffalo.

You should do political comedy.
Of course you didn't read fully as to the stadium being multi use(ie convention center etc). Way to generalize by the way.

[Statman]

What? English please.
Sure!

Driving from Batavia to OP (Orchard Park) according to Mapquest is 46.6 miles and takes 50 minutes. I doubt that mapquest uses Bills home game gameday data to compute their times so I think it's more than reasonable to add some time to that trip although the distance doesn't change.

You still with me?

So let's push that 50 minutes to 60 now. I think we both know that game traffic can really add much more, but hey, just to be fair to you, we'll say that it only adds ten more minutes.

So now for someone driving to the game, if the game were in Batavia, they would save that hour.

Well, and presumably, except maybe for some drunken fans in the lots, most of the fans eventually decide to go home after games too. I trust that you do and that this is nothing foreign to you. Since they likely have to travel the same path merely going back in the other direction, and invariably fight the same traffic that came, at different times, leaving, at the same time, then it's at least another hour saved if the game were in Batavia again.

That's 1 hour + 1 hour = now 2 hours. Don't let the units fool ya now.

According to Mapquest Lancaster is 14 miles and 25 minutes. Let's bump that to 30 minutes. Then do the same mathematical exercise. If you have trouble shoot me a PM.

Since most Buffalonians don't live in Orchard Park, an observation that I've casually made watching all the NY state license plates come down I-90 prior to games, and they must be Buffalonians since according to freeman no one comes from east of Buffalo to watch home games, then they clearly live well north of OP.

Canadians must also come south meaning that they likely drive right past exit 50 on I-90 making a trip to Batavia about the same as the one to OP and the trop to Lancaster even less. This might be confusing now.

I would suggest that the traffic wouldn't all come from west of the Batavia or Lancaster exits, but Freeman assures us that hardly anyone comes from that direction, so splitting the traffic in the two directions probably doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure that was all English.

[Statman]

Of course you didn't read fully as to the stadium being multi use(ie convention center etc). Way to generalize by the way.
I did read it.

And that helps increase the televison market how now?

How does it help the team, directly?

At some point your nice thoughts need to be grounded in reality.

We can all sit here and talk about how we could put lights around the stadium during holiday season games, extend the downtown streetcar to bring more people to the stadium, how restaurants might have a capacity for 75,000 hungry fans to feed them all within two hours of the game, but at some point it has to make some sense, be practical, and really make a difference not just throw mud against a wall hoping that enough sticks to overcome the cost of a 600m stadium.

NFL markets revolve around the TV market. Moving the stadium into the downtown area doesn't change that a bit. Moving it to a place where the market might increase may. It may make no difference in the long run. But if something doesn't change it definitely won't.

You and freeman are thinking about this from your own personal preference standpoint, not from the way the NFL and TV revenues think.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sure!

Driving from Batavia to OP (Orchard Park) according to Mapquest is 46.6 miles and takes 50 minutes. I doubt that mapquest uses Bills home game gameday data to compute their times so I think it's more than reasonable to add some time to that trip although the distance doesn't change.

You still with me?

So let's push that 50 minutes to 60 now. I think we both know that game traffic can really add much more, but hey, just to be fair to you, we'll say that it only adds ten more minutes.

So now for someone driving to the game, if the game were in Batavia, they would save that hour.

Well, and presumably, except maybe for some drunken fans in the lots, most of the fans eventually decide to go home after games too. I trust that you do and that this is nothing foreign to you. Since they likely have to travel the same path merely going back in the other direction, and invariably fight the same traffic that came, at different times, leaving, at the same time, then it's at least another hour saved if the game were in Batavia again.

That's 1 hour + 1 hour = now 2 hours. Don't let the units fool ya now.

According to Mapquest Lancaster is 14 miles and 25 minutes. Let's bump that to 30 minutes. Then do the same mathematical exercise. If you have trouble shoot me a PM.

Since most Buffalonians don't live in Orchard Park, an observation that I've casually made watching all the NY state license plates come down I-90 prior to games, and they must be Buffalonians since according to freeman no one comes from east of Buffalo to watch home games, then they clearly live well north of OP.

Canadians must also come south meaning that they likely drive right past exit 50 on I-90 making a trip to Batavia about the same as the one to OP and the trop to Lancaster even less. This might be confusing now.

I would suggest that the traffic wouldn't all come from west of the Batavia or Lancaster exits, but Freeman assures us that hardly anyone comes from that direction, so splitting the traffic in the two directions probably doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure that was all English.

Don't talk down to me.

Also PER MAPQUEST it is 41.88 miles from Batavia to the HSBC arena in downtown Buffalo

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw&go=1&r=f&aoh=&aot=&aof=&1a=&1c=Batavia&1s=NY&1z=&1y=US&1l=COM%2bt2sIkoOAoRn8x3XuRQ%3d%3d&1g=NXZJ8weFXht%2bIxwF1DCaIw%3d%3d&1pn=&1pl=&1v=CITY&1ffi=&1n=Genesee%20County&1qn=&2a=&2c=Buffalo&2s=NY&2z=&2y=US&2l=0pAe7g6PtmcxM7YAerGnrw%3d%3d&2g=bSQ3EWap%2fTnv8TdlEaMf0A%3d%3d&2pl=&2v=CITY&2ffi=&2n=Erie%20County&2qn=HSBC%20arena&panelbtn=2&1qc=&q=HSBC%20arena&2pn=HSBC%20arena&2sb=HSBC%20Arena%7c1%20Seymour%20H%20Knox%20III%20Plz%7cBuffalo%7cNY%7c14203%7c42875198%7c%2d78877800%7c716%2d855%2d4100%7cUS&2qc=Ticket%20Sales


So while the stadium wouldn't be as close as Lancaster it would still shave a couple minutes.

Why don't we build it right outside your house so as not to inconvenience you any further.

[Bill Brasky]

You crack me up.

Have you looked at the demographics for Buffalo lately?

Also, please explain to everyone how some bars and restaurants would help the Bills stick around?

When I talk to people about why they are moving out of WNY it has absolutely nothing to do with there not being a stadium in downtown Buffalo.

You should do political comedy.

You want politics you got it...

Hmmm, what are demographics, and how do you look at them?

I see you are one that goes by misconstrued census figures. Like the one done that said Rochester lost population... so the city of Rochester hired a private firm and they found that the city gained population.

Point blank who cares. BUFFALO IS NOT DYING. I travel the country for my job. I see how the rest of this country lives. I've seen most of the "big developing cities". Yes there are some that are exploding (IE: Dallas), but I hate to be the bad news delivery boy to the pessimists.... BUFFALO IS NOT DYING. The only reason people think it is, is because of the whiny, piss-poor attitudes of the out-of-work few who couldn't "find work here". Finding jobs doesn't = going to the Unemployment Office and waiting for a handout. I found a job in film/video in WNY... MEDIA PRODUCTION. It took a while, it was difficult, some days I wanted to quit and move out west or south because it was the easy way out, but I didn't, I kept at it, and I was rewarded. If more people here had the same attitude things would get done... good things. But it's easy to pack your bags, quit, and find greener grass. If that's how you are, fine - that's not indicative of a true Buffalonian anyways. If I can find a job like that in this area there should be no excuses for anybody else with an education. There are jobs out there, you have to find them, that's the hard part.

I'll tell you the most disturbing thing I've noticed since moving back here... it's not the "lack of development" because we have development, not to mention a quality of life that is second to none... it's the lack of forward thinking go-getters. So many people here quit or give up nowadays... then they ***** and wait for a handout and wonder why everybody is crapping on them. People need to realize that the rest of these "cities" are growing because they're progressive... they don't ***** about every proposed development because it might knock down a 200 year old porch on the historic registry.

You don't think a multi-use facility will facilitate development around it? Go to Baltimore. Their waterfront was worse than Buffalo's... they built it up, put sports venues there, and now it's more alive than ever... why? Because they made it desireable, they made people want to be there. If it worked for them, it can exceed all expectations here.

Developing a city and keeping population goes hand in hand with ambition and vision. I think there are people in the city that have both, but the pessimists ****ting on everyone's parade are hellbent on living in the past. Dead land, grain elevators, and abanonded buildings aren't gonna revitalize a downtown... HSBC, a stadium/convention center/restaurant/bar/hotel complex, bass pro, the 40 story city tower... all projects that by themselves are great, but combined can work magic.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I did read it.

And that helps increase the televison market how now?

How does it help the team, directly?

At some point your nice thoughts need to be grounded in reality.

We can all sit here and talk about how we could put lights around the stadium during holiday season games, extend the downtown streetcar to bring more people to the stadium, how restaurants might have a capacity for 75,000 hungry fans to feed them all within two hours of the game, but at some point it has to make some sense, be practical, and really make a difference not just throw mud against a wall hoping that enough sticks to overcome the cost of a 600m stadium.

NFL markets revolve around the TV market. Moving the stadium into the downtown area doesn't change that a bit. Moving it to a place where the market might increase may. It may make no difference in the long run. But if something doesn't change it definitely won't.

You and freeman are thinking about this from your own personal preference standpoint, not from the way the NFL and TV revenues think.

Ok sorry man I am wrong.

Tell me again how building a second stadium in the middle of no where helps the team. Will 15 minutes really increase the fan base at all? I just don't see it. (can't use the luxury box argument because it will have them whereever it is built). The real money is made with luxury boxes anyways. Also as the team still averages just as many fans attending games sellout or not.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You want politics you got it...

Hmmm, what are demographics, and how do you look at them?

I see you are one that goes by misconstrued census figures. Like the one done that said Rochester lost population... so the city of Rochester hired a private firm and they found that the city gained population.

Point blank who cares. BUFFALO IS NOT DYING. I travel the country for my job. I see how the rest of this country lives. I've seen most of the "big developing cities". Yes there are some that are exploding (IE: Dallas), but I hate to be the bad news delivery boy to the pessimists.... BUFFALO IS NOT DYING. The only reason people think it is, is because of the whiny, piss-poor attitudes of the out-of-work few who couldn't "find work here". Finding jobs doesn't = going to the Unemployment Office and waiting for a handout. I found a job in film/video in WNY... MEDIA PRODUCTION. It took a while, it was difficult, some days I wanted to quit and move out west or south because it was the easy way out, but I didn't, I kept at it, and I was rewarded. If more people here had the same attitude things would get done... good things. But it's easy to pack your bags, quit, and find greener grass. If that's how you are, fine - that's not indicative of a true Buffalonian anyways. If I can find a job like that in this area there should be no excuses for anybody else with an education. There are jobs out there, you have to find them, that's the hard part.

I'll tell you the most disturbing thing I've noticed since moving back here... it's not the "lack of development" because we have development, not to mention a quality of life that is second to none... it's the lack of forward thinking go-getters. So many people here quit or give up nowadays... then they ***** and wait for a handout and wonder why everybody is crapping on them. People need to realize that the rest of these "cities" are growing because they're progressive... they don't ***** about every proposed development because it might knock down a 200 year old porch on the historic registry.

You don't think a multi-use facility will facilitate development around it? Go to Baltimore. Their waterfront was worse than Buffalo's... they built it up, put sports venues there, and now it's more alive than ever... why? Because they made it desireable, they made people want to be there. If it worked for them, it can exceed all expectations here.

Developing a city and keeping population goes hand in hand with ambition and vision. I think there are people in the city that have both, but the pessimists ****ting on everyone's parade are hellbent on living in the past. Dead land, grain elevators, and abanonded buildings aren't gonna revitalize a downtown... HSBC, a stadium/convention center/restaurant/bar/hotel complex, bass pro, the 40 story city tower... all projects that by themselves are great, but combined can work magic.
I think statman is right. We are a couple comedians here. We need to extend the fan base 15 minutes that is the real key to saving the team... :puke:

[justasportsfan]

:movie:

[Bill Brasky]

NFL markets revolve around the TV market. Moving the stadium into the downtown area doesn't change that a bit. Moving it to a place where the market might increase may. It may make no difference in the long run. But if something doesn't change it definitely won't.

You and freeman are thinking about this from your own personal preference standpoint, not from the way the NFL and TV revenues think.

You're thinking about the TV market wrong. Build a stadium in Lancaster, Batavia... you just moved the 'blackout market' 30 miles further east, alienating the Syracuse and Finger Lakes TV markets. Way to knock out more viewers.

The NFL is not going to increase it's coverage if the Stadium is built further east... most of the State east of Utica will get Jets/Giants regardless.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Freeman Buffalo needs more young people like ourselves with good attitudes. I love this city and refuse to take the crap that is being fed to me. I could have easily packed up and moved to Vegas(could have doubled my salary) but I am sticking it out here and have even bought a house.

[Bill Brasky]

I think statman is right. We are a couple comedians here. We need to extend the fan base 15 minutes that is the real key to saving the team... :puke:

Yeah... Rochester, all 1 million of them... Southern Ontario and Toronto... all 12 million of them... let's move further from them to the smaller area.

I hope my car doesn't overheat from the extra 15 minutes of driving.

I can't wait to hit up scenic Batavia!

Genesee county is blowing up Thurm... Darien Lakes is pulling in record profits!

[Bill Brasky]

Freeman Buffalo needs more young people like ourselves with good attitudes. I love this city and refuse to take the crap that is being fed to me. I could have easily packed up and moved to Vegas(could have doubled my salary) but I am sticking it out here and have even bought a house.

Yeah, I took a 15k paycut, turned down a job at ESPN, and could have moved anywhere... so I was like "hey, Buffalo is dying, I should go back"

My life is terrible and I hate myself because Buffalo sucks and there is not one thing to do ever. Worst decision I ever made.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah... Rochester, all 1 million of them... Southern Ontario and Toronto... all 12 million of them... let's move further from them to the smaller area.

I hope my car doesn't overheat from the extra 15 minutes of driving.

I can't wait to hit up scenic Batavia!

Genesee county is blowing up Thurm... Darien Lakes is pulling in record profits!
Seriously!

[justasportsfan]

I work with a ton of guys that have season tickets here in Rochester .

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, I took a 15k paycut, turned down a job at ESPN, and could have moved anywhere... so I was like "hey, Buffalo is dying, I should go back"

My life is terrible and I hate myself because Buffalo sucks and there is not one thing to do ever. Worst decision I ever made.
I love it here!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I work with a ton of guys that have season tickets here in Rochester .
We know a lot of fans are from Rochester. Do you have a problem with the commute and do you honestly think it would make sense for the Bills and Buffalo to build a stadium in Lancaster?

[Bill Brasky]

That's cool justa... I don't.

I'm not saying there isn't fans here, there def. are... but the economics of building a major structure further away from the areas in the region that are actually growing make no sense.

[justasportsfan]

We know a lot of fans are from Rochester. Do you have a problem with the commute and do you honestly think it would make sense for the Bills and Buffalo to build a stadium in Lancaster?I don't have a problem with the commute but RWS blows and so does the location. Move it to downtown Buffalo or Niagara I don't care , but move it. NOW. :D

[justasportsfan]

That's cool justa... I don't.

I'm not saying there isn't fans here, there def. are... but the economics of building a major structure further away from the areas in the region that are actually growing make no sense.
I know a guy who works for wegmans who has season tickets. He can't parallel park though :ill:

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't have a problem with the commute but RWS blows and so does the location. Move it to downtown Buffalo or Niagara I don't care , but move it. NOW. :D
Not this Niagara falls crap again!!! BUT it makes more sense then Lancaster. :D

[justasportsfan]

Not this Niagara falls crap again!!! BUT it makes more sense then Lancaster. :D
:snicker:

[Bill Brasky]

Suburbs are for strip malls and houses... not 65,000 football stadiums/civic centers. Most people forget half the traffic issues on gameday stem from the Ralph being built around rural 2 lane roads. If this wasn't the case traffic wouldn't be half as bad.

There are some things to love about the Ralph... the tailgating and how close the fans are to the field come to mind.

[Michael82]

I work with a ton of guys that have season tickets here in Rochester .
I drive from Rochester for every single home game on the I-90 and see the thruway packed with people coming from Rochester, and Syracuse. Truthfully, I'm against a downtown stadium and think a better idea would honestly be to move it east a bit more. Maybe not in Batavia...but maybe closer to Darien? Or somewhere else.

[Michael82]

Or maybe justa is right...move the stadium to Niagara and tap that market even more.... :up:

[Bill Brasky]

Or maybe justa is right...move the stadium to Niagara and tap that market even more.... :up:

what market? that place is deader than a doornail.

[Michael82]

what market? that place is deader than a doornail.
But....but but, a new stadium can revitalize a downtown area! :rolleyes:


Truthfully, at least 60% of the Bills fans who buy tickets don't give a **** about downtown Buffalo. The ones who do are the ones that are sitting at home and letting these games be blacked out. :ill: :fit:

[hammerbillsfan]

Stick it in Fort Erie by the Canadian Ballet. :naughty: :mounty:

[THATHURMANATOR]

I drive from Rochester for every single home game on the I-90 and see the thruway packed with people coming from Rochester, and Syracuse. Truthfully, I'm against a downtown stadium and think a better idea would honestly be to move it east a bit more. Maybe not in Batavia...but maybe closer to Darien? Or somewhere else.
Again for no other reason than being selfish and cutting down on your commute 15 minutes.

As Freeman pointed out there are 12 million in southern Ontario and 1 million in the Rochester region. Why move closer to the the area with less population and further from the one with more?

[Michael82]

Again for no other reason than being selfish and cutting down on your commute 15 minutes.

As Freeman pointed out there are 12 million in southern Ontario and 1 million in the Rochester region. Why move closer to the the area with less population and further from the one with more?
Because as much as Ontario and Canada have a bunch of Bills fans that go to games, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and other Eastern areas have more. :::

[THATHURMANATOR]

But....but but, a new stadium can revitalize a downtown area! :rolleyes:


Truthfully, at least 60% of the Bills fans who buy tickets don't give a **** about downtown Buffalo. The ones who do are the ones that are sitting at home and letting these games be blacked out. :ill: :fit:
I love your stats that you pull completely out your ass. How did you arrive at this 60%? Furthermore if Rochestarians don't care about Downtown Buffalo or the city in General they are idiots because the worse the city does the less chance the team has at staying. I certainly wouldn't root against Rochester.

[hammerbillsfan]

Because as much as Ontario and Canada have a bunch of Bills fans that go to games, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and other Eastern areas have more. :::

Are you on crack?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because as much as Ontario and Canada have a bunch of Bills fans that go to games, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and other Eastern areas have more. :::
Mike you are making my point for me. That means we should be focusing more and more on tapping that 12 million person market that you say isn't really going to the games. In all honesty a stadium downtown is 5 miles closer to rochester than Where it is now. So your commute would be shortened. Get your head out of your ass.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't even know why I post in these debates. It just angers me that you guys don't get it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I will also bet the house that IF a stadium is built and that is a big if at this point it will be located downtown. It just makes perfect sense.

You have to be a dummy to not see that building a multimillion dollar stadium in the suburbs that will be used 8 times a year(maybe 10 or 12 if there are a couple concerts) just does not make sense and would never fly with the taxpayers. Especially when the reason you are giving for not putting downtown would be to cut down on Rochesterarians commutes by 15 minutes. Not to mention that the DT stadium would be closer than OP anyways and offer more streets in which to get out of the area.

[justasportsfan]

Stick it in Fort Erie by the Canadian Ballet. :naughty: :mounty:

where's Ft. Erie? Mikey never told me there's ballet there :mad:

[justasportsfan]

Because as much as Ontario and Canada have a bunch of Bills fans that go to games, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and other Eastern areas have more. :::
Sorry bud. You're all on your own for this one.


Rochacha does not need a stadium. Our downtown area in great as it is. Buffalo needs it. We don't.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Rochacha does not need a stadium. Our downtown area in great as it is. Buffalo needs it. We don't.
I was at a wedding in DT Rochester last year. It reminded me exactly of a slightly smaller Buffalo.

[The_Philster]

If there's a new stadium...it'll be in downtown Buffalo...south of the Arena...plenty of room for a stadium and for tailgating...all they need are some better access roads
They're the Buffalo Bills, not the Lancaster Bills, not the Batavia Bills, the Rochester Bills, or the Ontario Bills.
Buffalo Bills
Nuff Said!

[justasportsfan]

I was at a wedding in DT Rochester last year. It reminded me exactly of a slightly smaller Buffalo.
you forgot, cleaner ,safer. :mad:

[THATHURMANATOR]

If there's a new stadium...it'll be in downtown Buffalo...south of the Arena...plenty of room for a stadium and for tailgating...all they need are some better access roads
They're the Buffalo Bills, not the Lancaster Bills, not the Batavia Bills, the Rochester Bills, or the Ontario Bills.
Buffalo Bills
Nuff Said!
Right on Phil!

[justasportsfan]

Again for no other reason than being selfish and cutting down on your commute 15 minutes.

As Freeman pointed out there are 12 million in southern Ontario and 1 million in the Rochester region. Why move closer to the the area with less population and further from the one with more?
I have an idea. Move it to Jamestown.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you forgot, cleaner ,safer. :mad:
I can't comment on the safer portion but you are telling me that DT Buffalo is dirty? I think DT Buffalo is one of the cleanest DT areas I have ever seen.

[The_Philster]

Right on Phil!
I'll admit..I didn't think much of the idea of a downtown stadium...until you told me the area you were talking about...I think it's workable. Yeah, it may clog up traffic a little bit more on gamedays...but I never leave after the game til late anyway...and I'm usually among the first at the lots as well.
Thing is, it's gonna take a lot of green to fund a new stadium...and there's nothing wrong, outside of maybe some electronics fixes, with the Ralph.

[The_Philster]

I have an idea. Move it to Jamestown.
:scratch:






















:laughter:

[justasportsfan]

I can't comment on the safer portion but you are telling me that DT Buffalo is dirty? I think DT Buffalo is one of the cleanest DT areas I have ever seen.
It is . Trust me on this. Not bashing Buffalo. It has something we don't have. Chippewa.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It is dirty? I disagree wholeheartedly. Not even saying it is cleaner than Rochester either.

[Michael82]

If there's a new stadium...it'll be in downtown Buffalo...south of the Arena...plenty of room for a stadium and for tailgating...all they need are some better access roads
They're the Buffalo Bills, not the Lancaster Bills, not the Batavia Bills, the Rochester Bills, or the Ontario Bills.
Buffalo Bills
Nuff Said!
How about they just rebuild one in the same location that it is now? :scratch:

[Michael82]

I'll admit..I didn't think much of the idea of a downtown stadium...until you told me the area you were talking about...I think it's workable. Yeah, it may clog up traffic a little bit more on gamedays...but I never leave after the game til late anyway...and I'm usually among the first at the lots as well.
Thing is, it's gonna take a lot of green to fund a new stadium...and there's nothing wrong, outside of maybe some electronics fixes, with the Ralph.
Exactly. I'm more on your side. I don't really care where it goes. I prefer it where it is, but I would go for a downtown stadium. Whatever it takes to keep the Bills in Western NY. I just like to rile up Thurm. :snicker:

[Michael82]

It is . Trust me on this. Not bashing Buffalo. It has something we don't have. Chippewa.
We have High Falls and East End. :rofl:

Agreed....Chippewa is 10x better than anything we have in Rochester. Our night life sucks. :ill:

[The_Philster]

How about they just rebuild one in the same location that it is now? :scratch:
I don't think they could rebuild an entire stadium in one offseason...it took them almost an entire offseason to make the improvements they made in 99...where would they play for a year? There's no stadium large enough in the area

[Michael82]

I don't think they could rebuild an entire stadium in one offseason...it took them almost an entire offseason to make the improvements they made in 99...where would they play for a year? There's no stadium large enough in the area
Put it across the street or maybe on one of the lots next to the stadium. Yeah it would take over a bunch of parking for tailgating, but they could build it over the next 2 years or so and still use the current one.

[Jeff1220]

I haven't read any of the posts since the first page, but these are two things I do know:

1. For the twelve years I was a season ticket (from Rome - over 3 hrs away btw) I observed about the same amount of fans tailgating, etc from between Buffalo and Syracuse as I did from between Buffalo and Toronto. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

2. I now live in the Baltimore area. Downtown, aka the Inner Harbor, used to be a dump of all dumps. They charged forward with all sorts of revitilization efforts in the 90s that included the attractions like the aquarium, Maryland Science Center, Port Discovery, etc, the retail and restaurant/bar development that included the Powerplant (Hard Rock Cafe, etc.), PowerPlant Live (basically an outdoor mall of bars), and Harbor Place Mall, and the Ravens' and Orioles' stadiums.

In Baltimore, I really think the stadiums help the tourism industry on the harbor and the other way around. People like the harbor when they see it and often come back again, for more games or just to visit, because it isn't what people expect of Baltimore. Buffalo can do the same thing. It is a city that isn't much different, albeit quite a bit smaller, than Baltimore was when they went through the revitilization process.

[Michael82]

I haven't read any of the posts since the first page, but these are two things I do know:

1. For the twelve years I was a season ticket (from Rome - over 3 hrs away btw) I observed about the same amount of fans tailgating, etc from between Buffalo and Syracuse as I did from between Buffalo and Toronto. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

2. I now live in the Baltimore area. Downtown, aka the Inner Harbor, used to be a dump of all dumps. They charged forward with all sorts of revitilization efforts in the 90s that included the attractions like the aquarium, Maryland Science Center, Port Discovery, etc, the retail and restaurant/bar development that included the Powerplant (Hard Rock Cafe, etc.), PowerPlant Live (basically an outdoor mall of bars), and Harbor Place Mall, and the Ravens' and Orioles' stadiums.

In Baltimore, I really think the stadiums help the tourism industry on the harbor and the other way around. People like the harbor when they see it and often come back again, for more games or just to visit, because it isn't what people expect of Baltimore. Buffalo can do the same thing. It is a city that isn't much different, albeit quite a bit smaller, than Baltimore was when they went through the revitilization process.
Good post. I went to the Bills/Ravens game a couple years ago and thought that downtown Baltimore was a very nice area. Both stadiums and the view of the harbor made it very cool. :up:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Mike you complain that you want the stadium closer. Down town Buffalo is closer to you than where it is now. Then you advocate building a new one accross the street from where it is now.... You are whack my friend.... :shakeno:

[Michael82]

Mike you complain that you want the stadium closer. Down town Buffalo is closer to you than where it is now. Then you advocate building a new one accross the street from where it is now.... You are whack my friend.... :shakeno:
I don't really care where it is. As long as it's still in Western NY. :up:

[jamze132]

SAme here. Moving the bills wouldn't be the BUFFALO bills anymore even if it's just nearby Rochacha.
Just like the New Jersey Jet's and Giants?

Of course the team will retain the Bills name.

[CuseJetsFan83]

You're thinking about the TV market wrong. Build a stadium in Lancaster, Batavia... you just moved the 'blackout market' 30 miles further east, alienating the Syracuse and Finger Lakes TV markets. Way to knock out more viewers.

The NFL is not going to increase it's coverage if the Stadium is built further east... most of the State east of Utica will get Jets/Giants regardless.

even if you did that you'd knock out the southern tier's tv markets too............ you'd seriously have a blackout from the pa border to utica/albany depending on how much of the binghamton/elmira signals like in the area, that area would be affected if at all......

honestly being a jets fan in syracuse, buffalo is the closest game.... and i dont care if its in corfu, lockport, OP, irondequoit, or hell verona at the turning stone, ill go!

as far as the discussion about traffic.......... darien lake can barely handle 20k...... 70k+ could be a fatal excess (although they do have the exit strategies pretty good, entrances would suck)

with that being said, if the bills stay in buffalo, and they should.... i'd expect something either right in the middle of downtown...... or something not far from the present site........ they'd balk a move eastward just for that fact of revenue going out the door......... unless its a very $weet deal.

[Bill Brasky]

In Baltimore, I really think the stadiums help the tourism industry on the harbor and the other way around. People like the harbor when they see it and often come back again, for more games or just to visit, because it isn't what people expect of Baltimore. Buffalo can do the same thing. It is a city that isn't much different, albeit quite a bit smaller, than Baltimore was when they went through the revitilization process.

:bf1:

BTW Mikey and Justa, I work DT Rochester, right on Main street.... I feel safer in Buffalo.

Not bashing Roch, just making an observation. I can walk downtown Buffalo and avoid getting hassled for change, food, etc.... I walk 2 blocks to my work and get haggled every day in Roch... I can look out the window and watch drug dealers try and making a living... and nearly every building around me is vacant or boarded up. It is sad. My building is nice though! :up:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Freeman I lived right on Johnson pkwy a block from Chippewa. It was very clean around there. I will say there are bums that hassled me for money quite a bit but that goes with any city. I don't get what they are saying about Buffalo being dirty.

Now I live in South Buff and it is a beautiful area.

[Bill Brasky]

I have started looking into buying a house in BUF.

I would look in Roch but I don't know many people and the houses here are a bit more pricey.

Any suggested areas? I don't want to be in a suburb... but I wanna be able to walk or make a short drive to go do things.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I looked at over 40 houses in my hunt. South Buffalo had the nicest houses for the price, although DT is not walking distance obviously. It is a 5 minute drive however. I highly recomend south Buff, especially with the red hair you will fit in nicely with the rest of the Irish.

Elmwood area/Westside is the best spot but houses are very expensive there.

I found the houses in North Buffalo to be in not as good of shape and more expensive then South Buffalo.

[Bill Brasky]

Cool. I'm just looking for a starter place, in a decently located area, with quick access to the roads (gotta commute to Roch for work)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Check out South Buff man. I am telling you.

[Bill Brasky]

I might consider renting if I can't find anything decent as long as I find people to room with...

I like a lot of those new lofts, but they're all way too pricey, esp if I have to commute and pay tolls, gas, etc.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I might consider renting if I can't find anything decent as long as I find people to room with...

I like a lot of those new lofts, but they're all way too pricey, esp if I have to commute and pay tolls, gas, etc.
Check in the Artvoice man if you want to rent. Tons of apts.

[Statman]

You're thinking about the TV market wrong. Build a stadium in Lancaster, Batavia... you just moved the 'blackout market' 30 miles further east, alienating the Syracuse and Finger Lakes TV markets. Way to knock out more viewers.

The NFL is not going to increase it's coverage if the Stadium is built further east... most of the State east of Utica will get Jets/Giants regardless.
You're missing the point entirely. There would be fewer blackouts because the market for attendance just grew by more than enough to add another five or ten thousand regular fans to the game attending market. That would solve the blackout problem all around. You're operating on the continued assumption that the Bills won't be selling out any more games in the future. Moving the team eastward only promises to add to gameday attendance solving all the problems or at least pushing them towards correction.

As to the Jets/Giants, you'd think that if the only team truly remaining in the state actually moved closer to another metro area making attending games to that team both easier than to the Jets/Giants and closer to them than the Jets/Giants, where right now it's close enough to being equal to force a greater allegiance to the Jets/Giants, then more fans would become Bills fans as time passed.

[Statman]

I think statman is right. We are a couple comedians here. We need to extend the fan base 15 minutes that is the real key to saving the team... :puke:
15...60...

Ehh, what's the difference. :;

[THATHURMANATOR]

You're missing the point entirely. There would be fewer blackouts because the market for attendance just grew by more than enough to add another five or ten thousand regular fans to the game attending market. That would solve the blackout problem all around. You're operating on the continued assumption that the Bills won't be selling out any more games in the future. Moving the team eastward only promises to add to gameday attendance solving all the problems or at least pushing them towards correction.

As to the Jets/Giants, you'd think that if the only team truly remaining in the state actually moved closer to another metro area making attending games to that team both easier than to the Jets/Giants and closer to them than the Jets/Giants, where right now it's close enough to being equal to force a greater allegiance to the Jets/Giants, then more fans would become Bills fans as time passed.
BY MOVING THE STADIUM 15 MINUTES CLOSER TO ROCHESTER?

[Statman]

I drive from Rochester for every single home game on the I-90 and see the thruway packed with people coming from Rochester, and Syracuse. Truthfully, I'm against a downtown stadium and think a better idea would honestly be to move it east a bit more. Maybe not in Batavia...but maybe closer to Darien? Or somewhere else.
Liar!

Freeman said they don't exist.

We get far more support from Canada and frankly, the real reason why the NFL has succeeded is due to all of the support from our friends north of the border whose real passion is NFL football.

Haven't you heard of the hour long waits at the border crossings to come see Bills games. Haven't you seen all the Canadian and Canadian license plates in the lots.

Come on man, where are your senses.

[THATHURMANATOR]

15...60...

Ehh, what's the difference. :;

What are you talking about? How would it be moved 60 minutes closer? 60 minutes closer would put the new stadium on the eastern edge of Rochester. You aren't making sense.

Moving it to the Lancaster location would be moving it about 15 minutes closer to Rochester than Orchard Park is right now. What is the 60 you are talking about?

[Bill Brasky]

Haven't you heard of the hour long waits at the border crossings to come see Bills games. Haven't you seen all the Canadian and Canadian license plates in the lots.


Hmmm, I have.

When was the last time you went to a game? Probably a long time ago since your drive is soooo long.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Liar!

Freeman said they don't exist.

We get far more support from Canada and frankly, the real reason why the NFL has succeeded is due to all of the support from our friends north of the border whose real passion is NFL football.

Haven't you heard of the hour long waits at the border crossings to come see Bills games. Haven't you seen all the Canadian and Canadian license plates in the lots.

Come on man, where are your senses.

Lets not get into this. We know there are a lot of fans from Rochester. We also know a lot of Canadians come to games also. If you are right and barely Canadians do go to games then it would make moving the stadium DT would make even more sense. There are about 10 million more people in the Southern Ontario Region than Rochester. That means 10 million people in an untapped market. Makes more sense to be closer to the larger amount of people.

To say you don't see any Ontario plates tells me you are 1)lying, or 2) just not paying attention. There are tons.