Jauron deserves some credit

[OpIv37]

Ok, I've been hard on Jauron and at times this season he's deserved it. But right now he deserves credit. Reshuffling the OL has been a huge success. He's got rookies contributing all over the D, and Pennington isn't dominating but he's not a liability either. His overall game plans have been strong, especially since the bye.

Or, to say it more simply- the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, and the coaches are the reason for that.

In addition, the penalties have gone way down. This team committed way too many penalties early in the season, and Jauron gets some blame for that. But he also gets the credit now that it seems to have been fixed.

I didn't like hiring Jauron in the first place, and I still have some concerns about Jauron's in-game decision-making, particularly his use of challenges. I'm not 100% sold on the guy. But I have to admit that he's getting it done at the moment, and there's a chance that he could turn out to be a good coach for us.

This crow could use some BBQ sauce.

[YardRat]

A work in progress, just like the players on the field.

I hope they take a long, honest look at the challenge process during the off-season and improve on that for next year.

[madness]

:bf1:

[scott51]

My thought when he was hired was this, "you don't become 'coach of the year' by accident!" I wasn't totally sold and thrilled with the hiring but wasn't completely distraught either. The plus side was we didn't bring in some brand new guy who had never been a Head Coach before! (ie- Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey) I am willing to see what he does next season.

[The_Philster]

Where's Cynical? :snicker:

[mybills]

I like his half time adjustments, too.

[Saratoga Slim]

I'm pretty happy with jauron at the moment.

I like the "feel" of the organization much more than I have in a long time. Obviously I want to see the winning continue, but wins notwithstanding I like the aura of professionalism, integrity, and respect for both the players and the fans that Marv and Dick convey.

[John Doe]

My thought when he was hired was this, "you don't become 'coach of the year' by accident!" I wasn't totally sold and thrilled with the hiring but wasn't completely distraught either. The plus side was we didn't bring in some brand new guy who had never been a Head Coach before! (ie- Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey) I am willing to see what he does next season.

Any coach can have a bad season if their team suffers enough key injuries, but to uncork a 13-3 season like Jauron had for the Bears indicates something special.

I had no problem with the hire. Jauron and Levy are the smartest guys in the room.

Jauron deserves more than "some" credit.

[Mitchy moo]

They are doing a great job and it's a work in progress that's really heading the right way.

[PECKERWOOD]

Wow, no diversity anymore! Where the hell is GFLuNEEDit, when you need him?

[Forward_Lateral]

The difference this year from years past? This year it's a TEAM effort. Everyone doing their job, not worrying about stats, etc.

[alohabillsfan]

Yep, this team is moving in the right direction! ThanksMarv, Dick and co.

As far as the challenge thing goes... We'l see what happens in the future...

Overall coaching grade for this year so far B- ... I am still not over Detroit!

[Philagape]

What he's been doing more is letting players do what they do best and putting them in position to succeed. Not forcing them to do stupid human tricks like Moolarkey did.

[PECKERWOOD]

Ok, I've been hard on Jauron and at times this season he's deserved it. But right now he deserves credit. Reshuffling the OL has been a huge success. He's got rookies contributing all over the D, and Pennington isn't dominating but he's not a liability either. His overall game plans have been strong, especially since the bye.

Or, to say it more simply- the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, and the coaches are the reason for that.

In addition, the penalties have gone way down. This team committed way too many penalties early in the season, and Jauron gets some blame for that. But he also gets the credit now that it seems to have been fixed.

I didn't like hiring Jauron in the first place, and I still have some concerns about Jauron's in-game decision-making, particularly his use of challenges. I'm not 100% sold on the guy. But I have to admit that he's getting it done at the moment, and there's a chance that he could turn out to be a good coach for us.

This crow could use some BBQ sauce.

:snicker2:

Oh ok, but I thought Jauron was a bonehead and had no idea how to coach in the NFL?

I'm glad people are finding out about how important patience is and that people can prove you wrong if you just give them a chance!

Anyways, good post but Jauron still does look like an embalmer. That will never change! :up:

[kernowboy]

I'm pretty happy with jauron at the moment.

I like the "feel" of the organization much more than I have in a long time. Obviously I want to see the winning continue, but wins notwithstanding I like the aura of professionalism, integrity, and respect for both the players and the fans that Marv and Dick convey.

Exactly. They inspire pride in being a Bills fan not shame through arrogant disrespectful comments and gestures.

[OpIv37]

:snicker2:

Oh ok, but I thought Jauron was a bonehead and had no idea how to coach in the NFL?



well hold on now- I was never THAT critical of Jauron. I may have said he has no idea how to use a challenge, but I don't think I ever went so far as to say he had no idea how to coach in the NFL. If I did, it was probably during (or right after) a game and I was expressing a lot of frustration.

I still think that damn timeout/challenge things was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen an NFL coach do, but I'm not going to judge him on that play alone. Taking everything that this team has done this year, Jauron's done more good things than bad things.

[BillsNick]

It looks like everyone here is a Dick lover, or atleast likes Dick to some degree. Getting Dick for the first time was a little hard on some of the people in here, while some of the others have had an easier time handling Dick.

[JoeMama]

I actually feel a sharp pang of regret when I recount my initial reaction when the Bills hired Dick Jauron.

I took the news pretty badly.

I questioned Marv Levy's ability to serve as GM. I questioned Dick Jauron's ability to coach in the NFL. I cynically assumed that Jauron was hired based solely on a sense of cronyism b/c he & Levy are both Ivy Leaguers.

But that's why I sit in the stands & Marv runs the show.

Look at the Bills now.

Here we are. Exceeding any & all expections. Quietly pushing toward the playoffs when everyone had us written off completely. And quite frankly, still have us written off completely.

And I'm sitting here like a docile, happy child as Levy's vision for this team unfolds.

I believe in Marv.

He's one of the best & brightest minds in the NFL of all time.

So I guess it's no surprise that Dick Jauron is proving angry cynics like me wrong.

Hail to the king!

http://www.jewishsports.net/BioImages/bookA_Page_093_Image_0001.jpg

[Jeff1220]

Jauron deserves some credit

You aren't the only one who thinks so today. Here are just a few more that I saw today...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6284494

No counterfeit Bills

Bills coach Dick Jauron deserves some notice for coach of the year.

I know Sean Payton appears to be a shoo-in for his amazing work with the New Orleans Saints. But Jauron, who whipped the Jets a week ago, has his Bills believing, and they totally embarrassed Miami on Sunday. They knocked Joey Harrington from the game while J.P. Losman passed for three more touchdowns, giving him 17 on the season, with only 10 interceptions.

There were plenty of doubts about Losman and the Bills heading into this season, but they have a better record at 7-7 than the Dolphins, and they lost games at New England and Indianapolis by a grand total of three points. Just imagine that, the Bills with a 9-5 record? They were awfully close.

Jauron is a very good coach who never has gotten enough credit. Yes, he won Coach of the Year honors in Chicago long ago, but that organization ran him out of town when he couldn't win with a horrible quarterback while playing every home game in Champaign, Illinois. Men like Jauron don't receive a lot of attention because he isn't a self-promoter. Nothing wrong with that, I say. But at least people in western New York should take notice that they have a very good man and solid coach leading their franchise.

And his approval rating:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/sportsnation/ratings

Dick Jauron
94%
Team: Buffalo Bills
Record: 7-7
Votes: 1,033
Look who is back at .500. The Bills are back to where they started the season after beating the Dolphins on Sunday, and that's not a bad thing considering their midseason funk. Winning for the fourth time in five games, the Bills put together one of their best defensive performances since early in the season, holding the Dolphins to single-digit first downs and less than 50 yards through the air. Perhaps just as importantly for Jauron and any optimism about the team's outlook for the future, J.P. Losman again provided solid play at quarterback. Losman threw three touchdown passes without an interception, offsetting an average day from Willis McGahee and the running game. Are the Bills really putting it all together? Games against the Titans and Ravens to close the season will tell more, but it looks good for now.

[Mr. Cynical]

Where's Cynical? :snicker:

Right here. I still think he sucks and the only way that is going to change is if this team legitimately gets into the playoffs next year. This recent small surge of success is not enough for me to jump on his bandwagon. He had one very good year in Chicago (albeit 9 of the 13 wins were against sub .500 teams) and 5 bad ones so it can all change in the blink of an eye.

Still has a ways to go for me, anyway. Others are entitled to claim him the next coming of Lombardi (not you, but that's the feeling I get from some people)

[justasportsfan]

one word OP. "benefit of a doubt"

[Tatonka]

if we would have pulled out a couple of those very close losses early in the season.. jauron would be up for coach fo the year.

[Voltron]

I like his half time adjustments, too.
If there is one glaring difference with this Coaching Staff vs the last 2 it has been the fact that they seem to make in-game adjustments very well. The team seems better prepared than I have seen them in a long time.

Cautiously optimistic are my feelings on Jauron but I like what he has shown me down the stretch.

[Tatonka]

It looks like everyone here is a Dick lover, or atleast likes Dick to some degree. Getting Dick for the first time was a little hard on some of the people in here, while some of the others have had an easier time handling Dick.

subtle.

:rofl:

[Voltron]

What he's been doing more is letting players do what they do best and putting them in position to succeed. Not forcing them to do stupid human tricks like Moolarkey did.
Kind of like Bill Belichick :up:

Someone in Buffalo is finally getting it!

[Voltron]

:snicker2:

Oh ok, but I thought Jauron was a bonehead and had no idea how to coach in the NFL?

I'm glad people are finding out about how important patience is and that people can prove you wrong if you just give them a chance!

Anyways, good post but Jauron still does look like an embalmer. That will never change! :up:
It is hard to have patience when the team you love may not have much time left in the area :sadwalk:

[OpIv37]

Right here. I still think he sucks and the only way that is going to change is if this team legitimately gets into the playoffs next year. This recent small surge of success is not enough for me to jump on his bandwagon. He had one very good year in Chicago (albeit 9 of the 13 wins were against sub .500 teams) and 5 bad ones so it can all change in the blink of an eye.

Still has a ways to go for me, anyway. Others are entitled to claim him the next coming of Lombardi (not you, but that's the feeling I get from some people)

oh I'm not about to compare him to Lombardi or anyone else- I'm just giving credit where credit is due, and I'm starting to see some signs that he may be a decent coach despite what I thought when we first hired him.

I agree that he still has a lot to prove, but I'm impressed with what he's done since the bye.

[OpIv37]

one word OP. "benefit of a doubt"

One?

Well, at least you handled it with class- you are fully within your rights to give me a giant ****ing "I told you so", but you took the high road. Not many people here would do that.

[Mr. Cynical]

oh I'm not about to compare him to Lombardi or anyone else- I'm just giving credit where credit is due, and I'm starting to see some signs that he may be a decent coach despite what I thought when we first hired him.

I agree that he still has a lot to prove, but I'm impressed with what he's done since the bye.

Didn't mean to imply you were doing that. :)

Nobody is "literally" comparing him to Lombardi - that was just some hyperbole on my part. But to say he should be coach of the year IMHO is crazy. The team has been winning some games, yes, but I'm not seeing it as a result of anything special from him, e.g., brilliant gameplanning, in game changes, challenges, etc. Do I think the team is more motivated than earlier in the season? Absolutely. But that's a chicken and egg scenario, i.e., once you win a few, you will obviously be more motivated. IMO it is how a team plays when it is losing that tells me how much a coach is worth.

At this point Dick hasn't made me want him here anymore than he did when he got here...BUT...he hasn't given me a reason to go TP his house either. Time will tell.

[cordog]

If there is one glaring difference with this Coaching Staff vs the last 2 it has been the fact that they seem to make in-game adjustments very well. The team seems better prepared than I have seen them in a long time.

Cautiously optimistic are my feelings on Jauron but I like what he has shown me down the stretch.

Your absolutely right Volt. Thats usually a sign of a good coach. With the past 2 regimes they always got their butts handed to them in the 2nd half.

[jimmifli]

I liked the hiring. I like him as a coach.

But this was a playoff team this year and he treated it like a development year.

Before we give him too much credit, remember we should all be disappointed with .500, this team severly underperformed before the bye.

[Billzz]

I liked the hiring. I like him as a coach.

But this was a playoff team this year and he treated it like a development year.

Before we give him too much credit, remember we should all be disappointed with .500, this team severly underperformed before the bye.

This is sarcasm right?

[jimmifli]

This is sarcasm right?
No way.

This was a good team from day one.

A few less bone head moves and we are 10-4 right now.

[The_Philster]

A few less bone head moves like?

[jimmifli]

like? You watched the games, we were in every game except Chicago.

Ill timed penalties, drops, fumbles, interceptions, safeties, sacks, missed tackles etc....

It seemed like every game turned on a single play (most games do), and we came out on the wrong end of them. Now we are coming out on the right end.

All we needed was one of those games and we'd be a wildcard team this year.

Why does that seem so hard to believe?

[The_Philster]

You watched the games, we were in every game except Chicago.

Ill timed penalties, drops, fumbles, interceptions, safeties, sacks, missed tackles etc....

It seemed like every game turned on a single play (most games do), and we came out on the wrong end of them. Now we are coming out on the right end.

All we needed was one of those games and we'd be a wildcard team this year.

Why does that seem so hard to believe?
ok...I thought you meant coaching or player moves or something

[JoeMama]

I liked the hiring. I like him as a coach.

But this was a playoff team this year and he treated it like a development year.

Before we give him too much credit, remember we should all be disappointed with .500, this team severly underperformed before the bye.

For real?

You expected 10-4 at this point despite...

(a) We have 27th ranked run defense.

(b) We had one of the worst offensive lines in the league prior to the bye.

(c) We had a quarterback that we all knew would go thru some growing pains.

(d) We still have very poor run blocking for Willis McGahee.

This team struggled early on for a lot of legitimate reasons.

And it took some rearranging & some development on a lot of players' behalf to reach this point.

[jimmifli]

ok...I thought you meant coaching or player moves or something
No, I've only been critical of two of Jaurons decisions. He's the best coach we've had since Wade.

1. Time management in a game we won(I can't remember which one but I posted a thread with my explaination),

and

2. Starting JP at the beginning of the season.

I thought this was a playoff team and it was irresponsible to blow it on JP, I still feel that way, although I'm pleased with JP's progress, if he keeps it up we don't have to blow next years season too.

[The_Philster]

Starting JP at the beginning of the season.
Who would you have started in his place? Holcomb was worse this year than he was last season...and JP was outplaying him at the end of last season...and Nall is even more raw than JP.
If not for JP getting the playing time he did, it's highly unlikely he'd be playing as well as he is now. Unless a young QB is surrounded by a lot of talent, like Big Ben was, like Rivers is, he is going to struggle early on...no way around it

[Mr. Cynical]

No, I've only been critical of two of Jaurons decisions. He's the best coach we've had since Wade.

Agreed but then again there was NO way anyone coming it could have been worse.


2. Starting JP at the beginning of the season.

I thought this was a playoff team and it was irresponsible to blow it on JP, I still feel that way, although I'm pleased with JP's progress, if he keeps it up we don't have to blow next years season too.

Totally disagree.

1. We HAD to find out what the real story was with JP. The only answer is/was to play him the entire season to find out. We knew that KH and Nall were not it.

2. This is still not a playoff team IMHO, regardless of the fact we're not out of it mathematically. However I didn't expect it to be one so I'm not upset. I knew this was a rebuilding year - my hope is/was that we actually built something by the end of the season.

[jimmifli]

I didn't say I expected it, I said we should be based on how we lost this year. We lost several games we had no business losing.



I expected 10-6 until the decision was made to start JP. Then, 6-10 would've been a pleasant surprise for me.
<o:p> </o:p>

For real?

You expected 10-4 at this point despite...

(a) We have 27th ranked run defense.

(b) We had one of the worst offensive lines in the league prior to the bye.

(c) We had a quarterback that we all knew would go thru some growing pains.

(d) We still have very poor run blocking for Willis McGahee.

This team struggled early on for a lot of legitimate reasons.

And it took some rearranging & some development on a lot of players' behalf to reach this point.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>
</o:p>
The team struggled because we had the worst QB in the NFL.

Now that we have a top ten QB all those problems seem to have been solved. Even the run D looks half decent.


Those problems were symptoms not the disease.

[jimmifli]

Agreed but then again there was NO way anyone coming it could have been worse.



Totally disagree.

1. We HAD to find out what the real story was with JP. The only answer is/was to play him the entire season to find out. We knew that KH and Nall were not it.

2. This is still not a playoff team IMHO, regardless of the fact we're not out of it mathematically. However I didn't expect it to be one so I'm not upset. I knew this was a rebuilding year - my hope is/was that we actually built something by the end of the season.
And that's been my problem with JP fans. They've been willing to throw away an entire season to "find out".

I have no problem with JP, I predicted the bills would draft him and defended the pick when it happened, I like him, I truly hope he works out.

But no player is worth sacrificing the season for. Not even JP.


Look at the Sabres, what player defines them? They win because the season is about the team, not a player.

[Mr. Cynical]

The team struggled because we had the worst QB in the NFL.

Who would you have started then? KH? If so, I can *guarantee* this team would be far worse than 7-7. No I don't have a crystal ball but you don't need one to know that KH will be out of football or carrying a clipboard the rest of his career. He's done.

[The_Philster]

I expected 10-6 until the decision was made to start JP.JP was clearly better in camp and preseason than the others we have on the roster...I don't know who we could've brought in

The team struggled because we had the worst QB in the NFL.yeah...holding a clipboard all year long

[The_Philster]

And that's been my problem with JP fans. They've been willing to throw away an entire season to "find out".

I have no problem with JP, I predicted the bills would draft him and defended the pick when it happened, I like him, I truly hope he works out.

But no player is worth sacrificing the season for. Not even JP.


Look at the Sabres, what player defines them? They win because the season is about the team, not a player.
how did you expect to develop him? If he doesn't play, he doesn't develop....not exactly rocket science here...he won the job cause he was better than the alternatives

[Mr. Cynical]

And that's been my problem with JP fans. They've been willing to throw away an entire season to "find out".

I have no problem with JP, I predicted the bills would draft him and defended the pick when it happened, I like him, I truly hope he works out.

But no player is worth sacrificing the season for. Not even JP.


Look at the Sabres, what player defines them? They win because the season is about the team, not a player.

I think I can safely say I'm not a "JP fan". But you have to play him at some point otherwise you will never know if you have your franchise QB. It's not sacrificing the season when your #1 drafted QB has been on the bench for 2 years and you need to find out if he can play or not. Every team eventually has to bite the bullet or "find out" when they draft a QB. And the only way to avoid that would be to only get FA QBs and never draft one, which has never been done to my knowledge.

[jimmifli]

Look guys it's not another JP thread. It's about Jauron. I think he's a good coach, but I think this team has underperformed.

but since you asked:


how did you expect to develop him? If he doesn't play, he doesn't develop....not exactly rocket science here...he won the job cause he was better than the alternatives

I don't care how he develops. Football is about winning games, not developing players. He sits on the bench until he proves he can win games better than the guys on the grass.

I don't think JP did that before the season.


JP was clearly better in camp and preseason than the others we have on the roster...I don't know who we could've brought in

There were several QB’s available in the off season that many people wanted. I know Drew Breese was mentioned and dismissed by many. (I didn't read or post here during the off-season so I can't speak for the discussion here.)

He was the only QB in camp that got to play. The decision for him to be the starter was made when Jauron elected not to bring in another QB. The "competition" was just good coaching. It was done to prevent the team from blowing up they way it did when Mularkey granted JP the starting job.


Who would you have started then? KH? If so, I can *guarantee* this team would be far worse than 7-7. No I don't have a crystal ball but you don't need one to know that KH will be out of football or carrying a clipboard the rest of his career. He's done.

JPs performance through the beginning of the season was atrocious. Like I said, he was the worst starting QB in the NFL. Again, that's not an attack on him, he played poorly, he cost us games, we won't make the playoffs, JP fans are OK with that. I'm not.

I'll repeat my opening line in hopes of not derailing another thread:
I think he's a good coach, but I think this team has underperformed.

[SquishDaFish]

Awesome posting OP

[Dr. Lecter]

I can't agree with you an this team underperfroming. Not at all.
Look at how many rookies have received significant PT (6 if you count McCargo. Merz played most of a game too). There were 22 new players on the roster. Almost the entire coaching staff changed. There was a new offensive and a new defensive system brought in. They started a QB whose psyche had been crushed by the previous head coach.

Not to mention that most pre-season predictions had this team winning 5 or fewer games. While I agree that generally pre-season predictions are not worth much, the fact is this team had very low expectations and for them to still be in the playoff hunt at this time of the year is an indicator of good coaching.

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't say I expected it, I said we should be based on how we lost this year. We lost several games we had no business losing.



I expected 10-6 until the decision was made to start JP. Then, 6-10 would've been a pleasant surprise for me.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>
</o:p>
The team struggled because we had the worst QB in the NFL.

Now that we have a top ten QB all those problems seem to have been solved. Even the run D looks half decent.


Those problems were symptoms not the disease.

Sheesh.

JP was not even close to the worst QB in the NFL. You are usually not an exaggerator. But in this case, you are over-stating his "bad play" big time.

Which QB could have carried this team to a 10-6 record? Not Holcomb. I doubt like hell Nall.


This team started to come around when the O-line was changed around and started to perform. IT helped all aspects of the team and the offense. It gave JP time to use his greatest gift, his arm, to find Evans deep. That did not exist with Reyes at LG, Peters at RT and Gandy at LT.

Finally, as for not sacrificing a season to develop a QB, if you are not willing to do that then it is likely you will never home grow a QB. The Cowboys went 1-15 in Aikman's rookie year. The Bills were 4-12 in Kelly's first season.

[The_Philster]

he proves he can win games better than the guys on the grass.

I don't think JP did that before the season.
he outperformed 3 others in preseason...and one of those, Holcomb, he was outperforming at the end of the year last season

There were several QB’s available in the off season that many people wanted. I know Drew Breese was mentioned and dismissed by many.putting a lot of money into a big name QB would've said one thing....that they were giving up on JP

He was the only QB in camp that got to play. The others got to play...just not as much. Some people even raised a stink about how Holcomb got the 1st start in the preseason. Holcomb had opportunities to win the job...but his decision-making and overall play was putrid to say the least. Nall was injured so he was simply not gonna get the playing time. Had he not been injured, he likely would've gotten a lot more than he got.
In any event, Jauron said the QBs would be evaluated primarily on decision-making...the only fair way to evaluate QBs going up against different opposition and surrounded by different help.
JP was, at the beginning of the season, the best QB on the roster....we likely wouldn't even have a remote shot at the playoffs with Holcomb in there.
Point is...QBs have to have time to develop..they won't do it sitting on the bench..only by playing. And the 2006 Bills isn't a strong enough team to make up for a young QB's inexperience...I don't care who it is. If we had Big Ben, Rivers, or Manning in here after missing his rookie season and being jerked around like Losman was last season...we'd get much the same performance out of any of them that we got out of JP.
Put Losman on this year's Chargers...or put him on the Steelers team...he might perform just as well.

[jimmifli]

Sheesh.

JP was not even close to the worst QB in the NFL. You are usually not an exaggerator. But in this case, you are over-stating his "bad play" big time.

Which QB could have carried this team to a 10-6 record? Not Holcomb. I doubt like hell Nall.


This team started to come around when the O-line was changed around and started to perform. IT helped all aspects of the team and the offense. It gave JP time to use his greatest gift, his arm, to find Evans deep. That did not exist with Reyes at LG, Peters at RT and Gandy at LT.

Finally, as for not sacrificing a season to develop a QB, if you are not willing to do that then it is likely you will never home grow a QB. The Cowboys went 1-15 in Aikman's rookie year. The Bills were 4-12 in Kelly's first season.
Worst starter. Who was worse that wasn't benched by week eight?

[Dr. Lecter]

Tampa's situation was horrible. Delhomme has been terrible. Brunnell. (Benched after week 8) As great as he has been in his career, Favre is a shell. Brad Johnson. Oakland's rotating starters. Charlie Frye. Plummer. Rothlesberger was horrible until week 8.

And since week 8, JP has been a top 15 (or even 10) QB.

Players learn by playing. He did not get the opportunity to play last year due to Mularkey having a tiny nut sack.

[jimmifli]

This team started to come around when the O-line was changed around and started to perform. IT helped all aspects of the team and the offense. It gave JP time to use his greatest gift, his arm, to find Evans deep. That did not exist with Reyes at LG, Peters at RT and Gandy at LT.


I think the O-line shuffle was more about getting young guys on the field than it was about improving play. It also sent a message to other veterans that if the guy behind you is even eighty percent as good as you and he is younger and cheaper, you're going to lose your job.

The fact that it worked so well has less to do with the time JP has to throw, (he had time before) and more to do with JP playing like an NFL QB.

[Dr. Lecter]

David Carr too.

[Dr. Lecter]

So the timing of JP's improvement was a coincidence?

He has had much more time in the last 4-5 weeks. The backs are blocking better too.

Don't get me wrong; he has came a long way himself. His leadership skills have skyrocketed.

But this team had many more problems and bigger problems than JP for teh first 7 weeks.

[JoeMama]

The team struggled because we had the worst QB in the NFL.

Now that we have a top ten QB all those problems seem to have been solved. Even the run D looks half decent.


Those problems were symptoms not the disease.


Come on, jimmi.

That's a pretty half-assed assessment.

The run defense has actually gotten worse since the bye week.

WAY WORSE.

First 7 games:

793 yards -- 113 ypg

Last 7 games:

1133 yards -- 162 ypc

So please, drop this bizarre notion that JP Losman was somehow holding back the defense prior to the bye week.

That's a baseless theory.

As for the resurgance of the offensive line, you can pinpoint the event that triggered their improvement.

And that event was the personnel re-shuffling.

It took a game or two against the Pack & the Colts to gel, but since the Texans game, the line has been outstanding in pass protection.

And ironically, when did JP Losman break out?

The Texans game!

It's no coincidence.

Things really started to fall in place after the offensive line stepped up their game in terms of pass protection.

Especially for JP Losman, who is playing lights out football.

Now if the line can start opening some holes for Willis McGahee, this is going to be a very complete offense.

[BAM]

Did anyone watch the pregame show on the NFL Network tonight? They gave Dick Jauron the #1 of the 5 Prime Time Performer of the week. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a coach get that before. Strangest thing was that Mariucci was the one giving them out.

[Mr. Cynical]

Strangest thing was that Mariucci was the one giving them out.

Not really. They know each other "very well" from what I hear.

Dick :hump: Mooch

[BAM]

I don't think I've ever heard him say anything that good about Buffalo before.

Means jack ISH but it was very cool to see.

[Lexwhat]

It looks like everyone here is a Dick lover, or atleast likes Dick to some degree. Getting Dick for the first time was a little hard on some of the people in here, while some of the others have had an easier time handling Dick.


:rofl:

[Ingtar33]

I'm eating crow. i was ticked-off at the Jauron signing.

Oops

I always like to say, three things (in the whole) are the sign of good coaching. Penalties, Special Teams, and Time Management

Teams with good coaches almost always have no issues with those three things. This year the Bills have done pretty good with the first two, and since the bye, they've had few to no problems with the last one.

That's a sign of good coaching. And DJ deserves a lot of credit for it.

[BAM]

I can't believe how little penalties our team has committed during this little run here.

[jimmifli]

Tampa's situation was horrible. Delhomme has been terrible. Brunnell. (Benched after week 8) As great as he has been in his career, Favre is a shell. Brad Johnson. Oakland's rotating starters. Charlie Frye. Plummer. Rothlesberger was horrible until week 8.

And since week 8, JP has been a top 15 (or even 10) QB.

Players learn by playing. He did not get the opportunity to play last year due to Mularkey having a tiny nut sack.

JP


| 1 nwe (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 15 23 164 0 0 | 1 0 0 |
| 2 mia (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia2006.htm) | 11 18 83 1 0 | 2 10 0 |
| 3 nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2006.htm) | 22 38 328 1 1 | 3 14 1 |
| 4 min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2006.htm) | 23 32 222 1 0 | 4 17 0 |
| 5 chi (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi2006.htm) | 14 27 115 1 3 | 3 8 0 |
| 6 det (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det2006.htm) | 21 34 207 2 1 | 3 16 0 |
| 7 nwe (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 16 25 193 0 1 | 3 13 0 </pre>
Gradkowski is an injury fill in not the starter (but yes he is worse).

Delhomme, looks better to me. He definitely isn't worse.


1 atl (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl2006.htm) | 21 39 186 0 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 2 min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2006.htm) | 17 33 181 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 3 tam (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam2006.htm) | 22 36 272 1 0 | 2 12 0 |
| 4 nor (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor2006.htm) | 19 29 169 2 0 | 3 -3 0 |
| 5 cle (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle2006.htm) | 20 29 170 1 0 | 1 -1 0 |
| 6 bal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav2006.htm) | 24 39 365 2 2 | 2 -2 0 |
| 7 cin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin2006.htm) | 20 34 238 2 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 8 dal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal2006.htm) | 17 31 149 0 1 | 0 0 0 |</pre>Brunell looks pretty similar to JP, maybe a touch better.


| 1 min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2006.htm) | 17 28 163 0 0 | 2 7 0 |
| 2 dal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal2006.htm) | 18 33 197 0 1 | 2 15 0 |
| 3 hou (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx2006.htm) | 24 27 261 1 0 | 2 0 0 |
| 4 jax (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax2006.htm) | 18 30 329 3 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 5 nyg (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg2006.htm) | 12 22 109 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 6 ten (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti2006.htm) | 16 30 180 1 1 | 3 3 0 |
| 7 ind (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt2006.htm) | 27 37 226 2 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 9 dal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal2006.htm) | 14 23 192 1 0 | 2 4 0 |</pre>

Favre isn't the old Favre but compared to JP's 8 games his performance still looks better:


| 1 chi (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi2006.htm) | 15 29 170 0 2 | 1 0 0 |
| 2 nor (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor2006.htm) | 31 55 340 3 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 3 det (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det2006.htm) | 25 36 340 3 0 | 1 -5 0 |
| 4 phi (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi2006.htm) | 22 44 205 0 2 | 1 0 0 |
| 5 stl (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram2006.htm) | 22 39 220 1 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 7 mia (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia2006.htm) | 19 35 206 2 0 | 1 14 0 |
| 8 ari (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd2006.htm) | 17 25 180 1 0 | 4 -5 1 </pre>
OK, You're right JP is better than Brad Johnson:


| 1 was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was2006.htm) | 16 30 223 1 0 | 1 -1 0 |
| 2 car (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car2006.htm) | 19 31 243 0 1 | 3 4 0 |
| 3 chi (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi2006.htm) | 21 31 194 0 0 | 1 0 0 |
| 4 buf (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf2006.htm) | 25 44 267 1 2 | 3 18 0 |
| 5 det (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det2006.htm) | 26 34 201 1 1 | 1 -1 0 |
| 7 sea (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea2006.htm) | 15 24 171 1 0 | 3 2 0 |
| 8 nwe (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 20 33 185 0 3 | 1 9 0 |</pre>Oakland benched their starter, then the backup etc.. they don't have a starter.

Charlie Frye, his stats are a lot worse, but man, he's playing for Cleveland. I'll grant you that one too.


| 1 nor (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor2006.htm) | 16 27 132 1 2 | 6 44 1 |
| 2 cin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin2006.htm) | 20 33 244 0 2 | 4 10 1 |
| 3 bal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav2006.htm) | 21 33 298 1 1 | 2 6 1 |
| 4 oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai2006.htm) | 22 32 192 3 2 | 5 -2 0 |
| 5 car (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car2006.htm) | 26 43 173 0 2 | 2 12 0 |
| 7 den (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den2006.htm) | 19 33 149 1 1 | 1 1 0 |
| 8 nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2006.htm) | 15 22 141 1 1 | 5 19 0 |</pre>
Plummer, is a toss up, but he eventually got benched for a rookie.


| 1 stl (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram2006.htm) | 13 26 138 0 3 | 0 0 0 |
| 2 kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2006.htm) | 16 30 173 0 1 | 2 -2 0 |
| 3 nwe (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 15 30 256 2 0 | 3 9 0 |
| 5 bal (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav2006.htm) | 13 24 106 1 1 | 2 11 0 |
| 6 oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai2006.htm) | 11 18 102 0 0 | 6 30 0 |
| 7 cle (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle2006.htm) | 20 41 209 1 2 | 3 10 0 |
| 8 ind (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt2006.htm) | 13 21 174 1 0 | 5 22 1 |</pre>
Big Ben had a rough start and I doubt he'll ever be as good as JP, so fine add him.

| 2 jax (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax2006.htm) | 17 32 141 0 2 | 1 0 0 |
| 3 cin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin2006.htm) | 18 39 208 0 3 | 1 -1 0 |
| 5 sdg (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sdg2006.htm) | 20 31 220 0 2 | 0 0 0 |
| 6 kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2006.htm) | 16 19 238 2 0 | 1 0 0 |
| 7 atl (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl2006.htm) | 16 22 238 3 0 | 3 -2 0 |
| 8 oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai2006.htm) | 25 37 301 1 4 | 1 5 0 |


Of the 29 or so teams with starters, JP was worse than all but three of them through eight games.

I still don't think people understand how bad he was, which is a shame because it makes this turn around even more remarkable.
</pre>

[jimmifli]

Come on, jimmi.

That's a pretty half-assed assessment.

The run defense has actually gotten worse since the bye week.

WAY WORSE.

First 7 games:

793 yards -- 113 ypg

Last 7 games:

1133 yards -- 162 ypc

So please, drop this bizarre notion that JP Losman was somehow holding back the defense prior to the bye week.

That's a baseless theory.

As for the resurgance of the offensive line, you can pinpoint the event that triggered their improvement.

And that event was the personnel re-shuffling.

It took a game or two against the Pack & the Colts to gel, but since the Texans game, the line has been outstanding in pass protection.

And ironically, when did JP Losman break out?

The Texans game!

It's no coincidence.

Things really started to fall in place after the offensive line stepped up their game in terms of pass protection.

Especially for JP Losman, who is playing lights out football.

Now if the line can start opening some holes for Willis McGahee, this is going to be a very complete offense.

The run defense had nothing to do with JP, I didn't imply that it did. Personally I think they've improved, mainly on third down and the red zone.

I admit the OLine being reshuffled is when JP improved. I'll even admit it's probably why. I just don't accept that this OLine is much different than the last OLine.

[mysticsoto]

The run defense had nothing to do with JP, I didn't imply that it did. Personally I think they've improved, mainly on third down and the red zone.

I admit the OLine being reshuffled is when JP improved. I'll even admit it's probably why. I just don't accept that this OLine is much different than the last OLine.

I think that's bull*****. This Oline is alot better. Gandy is playing very well at LG and Peters is an absolute monster at LT. Notice how Willis ran almost exclusively to the left all day long against Miami. Additionally, though Pennington started slow, he has picked it up with play (gee, who knew that with play you get better) and though Preston isn't super fantastic, he appears to be doing better than Villarial was. So all in all, yes, there was substantial improvement. Go look at how many sacks there were with the previous line.

[G. Host]

This crow could use some BBQ sauce.

Crow is best served in a pie with a flakey crust.

[The_Philster]

Oh brother, another stat freak :ill:

[YardRat]

I think that's bull*****. This Oline is alot better. Gandy is playing very well at LG and Peters is an absolute monster at LT. Notice how Willis ran almost exclusively to the left all day long against Miami. Additionally, though Pennington started slow, he has picked it up with play (gee, who knew that with play you get better) and though Preston isn't super fantastic, he appears to be doing better than Villarial was. So all in all, yes, there was substantial improvement. Go look at how many sacks there were with the previous line.

Actually, it appears to me that the drop in sacks is a result of JP getting rid of the ball in a more timely manner.

[Dr. Lecter]

Actually, it appears to me that the drop in sacks is a result of JP getting rid of the ball in a more timely manner.

He also has much more time. He is not being met in the backfield by two defenders 2-3 times a game.

[kernowboy]

I think that's bull*****. This Oline is alot better. Gandy is playing very well at LG and Peters is an absolute monster at LT. Notice how Willis ran almost exclusively to the left all day long against Miami. Additionally, though Pennington started slow, he has picked it up with play (gee, who knew that with play you get better) and though Preston isn't super fantastic, he appears to be doing better than Villarial was. So all in all, yes, there was substantial improvement. Go look at how many sacks there were with the previous line.

Agreed. I am even coming round to the thought that sensibly resigning Gandy will be as good a move as retaining Nate and London. With Nate, I think Ashton has the tools to step up and London only has a few more miles in the tank.

I think in the offseason the right of the OL will have a look. It might be that Merz will be given a longer look at RG (Preston got the call due to experience) though I suspect we will look in FA here with maybe David Diehl (my favourite) or Vince Manuwai. At RT, I don't think we'll sign or draft a RT but Brad Butler will bulk up and there will be a competition in camp. Whoever wins leaves us set here. I would draft whichever LT falls to us in the third round (hopefully Doug Free) as the line is only one injury to Peters away from disaster and we need cover

So we start next season

Peters (Free?) Gandy (Merz) Fowler (Preston) Diehl (Preston) Penn (Butler)

One of the better lines in the league .... finally

[jimmifli]

Oh brother, another stat freak :ill:
Was this directed at me?

[jimmifli]

Actually, it appears to me that the drop in sacks is a result of JP getting rid of the ball in a more timely manner.
Plus some great scrambling and a lot more three step drops.

[justasportsfan]

One?

Well, at least you handled it with class- you are fully within your rights to give me a giant ****ing "I told you so", but you took the high road. Not many people here would do that.I was justakidding with ONE.

OP, as much as you and I disaree, you're a bills fan. I'd probably even say a bigger fan than I am. And because of it, I couldn't even get you to have the sig I was gonna have you use .

As for TDummy and Sab, They are desperately reaching for excuses rather than give him credit and admit that they were wrong. PS (TD and SAB) I TOLD YOU SOOOOOO!

[The_Philster]

Was this directed at me?
Yeah it was....nothing personal...but it just drives me nuts when people resort to stats a lot. Stats tell you very little without knowing what happened on each play...who handled their assignments properly and the like.
A QB going 10 for 20 with 2 picks looks bad on the stat sheet, for example. But what happened on those 10 passes that didn't connect with the WR? Did the WR run the right route? Was the ball tipped or dropped? That kind of stuff. I know that stats are the only way to go if you don't see the games, but I really think that stats are too much of a crutch.

[jimmifli]

Yeah it was....nothing personal...but it just drives me nuts when people resort to stats a lot. Stats tell you very little without knowing what happened on each play...who handled their assignments properly and the like.
A QB going 10 for 20 with 2 picks looks bad on the stat sheet, for example. But what happened on those 10 passes that didn't connect with the WR? Did the WR run the right route? Was the ball tipped or dropped? That kind of stuff. I know that stats are the only way to go if you don't see the games, but I really think that stats are too much of a crutch.
Don't be an ass.

I don't think a single thing I've ever said would allow you to fairly categorize me as a "stat freak".

I assume you haven't been able to watch every NFL game this year either, and so, like me, you are left with stats to evaluate players that you haven't seen. I'm willing to defend my opinions, I don't resort to cheap shots and name calling.

[The_Philster]

Don't be an ass.

I don't think a single thing I've ever said would allow you to fairly categorize me as a "stat freak".

I assume you haven't been able to watch every NFL game this year either, and so, like me, you are left with stats to evaluate players that you haven't seen. I'm willing to defend my opinions, I don't resort to cheap shots and name calling.
You're the only one making with the name-calling :rolleyes:

[jimmifli]

You're the only one making with the name-calling :rolleyes:
Hardly. I didn't call you a name, I critisized your behaviour.

You called me a "stat freak" without bothering to refute my post. You dismissed the validity of my claim without actually contributing anything. I take issue with that.

[Dr. Lecter]

jimmi is not a stat freak (A freak maybe, but not a stat freak).

BTW, you can also throw Alex Smith into the list of QB's worse than JP in the first half of a season.

I think one other point that needs to be made is that he did not turn the ball over the first 3 games of the season. That does not mean he played great, but it definetly is not a sign of a guy that was horrible.

[The_Philster]

Hardly. I didn't call you a name, I critisized your behaviour.

You called me a "stat freak" without bothering to refute my post. You dismissed the validity of my claim without actually contributing anything. I take issue with that.I can't refute it...because I haven't watched other QBs as much as I've watched JP. Comparing players using stats only helps in fantasy football....stats don't bring much into the equation...what about drops...wrong pass routes....missed blocks, etc? You don't get all that you need to really compare players off of stat sheets. I admit it's the only thing you can use at all if you haven't seen them play...but it's not very accurate

[Historian]

EE and I tried to tell all of you that he was the real deal....and that he just was in a bad situation in Chicago.

Most of you ignored us, to your detriment.

It pays to listen to your elders.

[Dr. Lecter]

I always liked the guy too. And liked JP. And the Whitner pick.

[Mr. Cynical]

EE and I tried to tell all of you that he was the real deal....and that he just was in a bad situation in Chicago.

Most of you ignored us, to your detriment.

It pays to listen to your elders.

I think it is just a tad early to be anointing Dick as "the real deal" here in Buffalo. We're 7-7 into his first season here. On the books that means at this point he still has had only 1 winning season out of 6.

[Typ0]

honestly, after the last few clowns we had in here I couldn't believe we hired DJ. I'm on board with the coaching staff.

[jimmifli]

I can't refute it...because I haven't watched other QBs as much as I've watched JP. Comparing players using stats only helps in fantasy football....stats don't bring much into the equation...what about drops...wrong pass routes....missed blocks, etc? You don't get all that you need to really compare players off of stat sheets. I admit it's the only thing you can use at all if you haven't seen them play...but it's not very accurate Interestingly enough, good stats show a strong correlation to good QBs and poor stats show a strong correlation to poor QBs. Weird isn't it?

Over a single game, the correlation is weak, but as you add more games, it gets more meaningful. 8 games is plenty for a lot of the **** to even itself out.

After that you only need to take into account the coaching situation and surrounding talent and then it isn't really very hard to evaluate performance.

So my premise again was that the team has underperformed. But I think I'd like to change that...

Considering JP started since the opener, this team has over-performed.

[Mr. Cynical]

Interestingly enough, good stats show a strong correlation to good QBs and poor stats show a strong correlation to poor QBs. Weird isn't it?

Over a single game, the correlation is weak, but as you add more games, it gets more meaninful. 8 games is plenty for a lot of the **** to even itself out.


Disregarding the JP situation for a moment, I do agree with you here. I have used stats many times (not alot lately though, but when Drew was here, I was all over them) and I have made the same argument - stats don't mean anything *until* you have enough data points to form a trend. Then you can use them as a pretty accurate device to evaluate a player.

[Voltron]

Interestingly enough, good stats show a strong correlation to good QBs and poor stats show a strong correlation to poor QBs. Weird isn't it?

Over a single game, the correlation is weak, but as you add more games, it gets more meaningful. 8 games is plenty for a lot of the **** to even itself out.

After that you only need to take into account the coaching situation and surrounding talent and then it isn't really very hard to evaluate performance.

So my premise again was that the team has underperformed. But I think I'd like to change that...

Considering JP started since the opener, this team has over-performed.
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. - Benjamin Disraeli

[Voltron]

EE and I tried to tell all of you that he was the real deal....and that he just was in a bad situation in Chicago.

Most of you ignored us, to your detriment.

It pays to listen to your elders.
I had no feelings either way really. I was willing to give him time to put his mark on this team. So far he has done this with only 1 of his draft classes and we are probably routinely starting more rookies than any other team in the NFL.

I really like the fact that the players have grown into a team this year. Last year I got so sick of hearing from the Head Coach that the team was "buying into the game plan" and then the next day you read all over the internet how the players and coaches were at each others throats and there was bickering thru the entire locker room.

DJ seems to me to fit Buffalo well. He is no-nonsense, to the point and uses as few words as possible to answer questions. That in itself is a breath of fresh air!

[madness]

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. - Benjamin Disraeli

There are three kind of Voltron's: Lion Voltron, (damn) Vehicle Voltron, and people on messageboards using Voltron as their name... Voltron. - madness

*footnote - There was almost Gladiator Voltron but Vehicle Voltron was so gay, it single handly destroyed the legacy left behind by Lion Voltron. Stupid Vehicle Voltron. :mad:

[jimmifli]

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. - Benjamin Disraeli
Thank you. That added so much to the discussion.

[Voltron]

Thank you. That added so much to the discussion.
A hell of a lot more than the 12 pages of stats you posted that made my eyes glaze over!

[Luisito23]

When things were at the lowest, this team never gave up, I put that all on our coach...So Jauron deserves more than just "some" credit....No matter what happens the rest of the season this team is obviously headed in the right direction...Now let's kick Tennesse's @*( and chill blissfully this X-Mas......:beers: :drunks: ....




GO BILLS!!!!!

[BillsNick]

When things were at the lowest, this team never gave up, I put that all on our coach...So Jauron deserves more than just "some" credit....No matter what happens the rest of the season this team is obviously headed in the right direction...Now let's kick Tennesse's @*( and chill blissfully this X-Mas......:beers: :drunks: ....
GO BILLS!!!!!

:hi5:

[OpIv37]

When things were at the lowest, this team never gave up, I put that all on our coach...So Jauron deserves more than just "some" credit....No matter what happens the rest of the season this team is obviously headed in the right direction...Now let's kick Tennesse's @*( and chill blissfully this X-Mas......:beers: :drunks: ....




GO BILLS!!!!!

that's true at the end of the season- that wasn't true at the beginning of the season. For example, the choke against NE in game 1 and that desperate, flailing attempt to score at the end of the home opener against the Jets. But Jauron has definitely turned that around.

[mybills]

bump :snicker:

[OpIv37]

bump :snicker:

I said I still had concerns about his in-game decision-making.

Clearly, Sunday's game against the Titans showed why.

The guy's definitely an improvement over Mularkey and he's done some good things, but I won't be convinced that he's the right guy for this team until he stops pulling the BS like he pulled on Sunday.

[mybills]

The bump wasn't meant for you, Op. :snicker:

[Mr. Cynical]

one more bump for good measure :;