Blackout, moving the team, etc.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I am looking at the attendance figures from last week and this is how it was:

1. Philadelphia 36, N.Y. Giants 22 - 78,657
2. Pittsburgh 37, Carolina 3 - 73,798
3. Dallas 38, Atlanta 28 - 71,102
4. Buffalo 21, Miami 0 - 71,011
5. Baltimore 27, Cleveland 17 - 70,857
6. Green Bay 17, Detroit 9 - 70,472
7. Tennessee 24, Jacksonville 17 - 69,143
8. Washington 16, New Orleans 10 - 69,052
9. New England 40, Houston 7 - 68,756
10. San Francisco 24, Seattle 14 - 67,650
11. San Diego 20, Kansas City 9 - 66,583
12. Denver 37, Arizona 20 - 63,845
13. N.Y. Jets 26, Minnesota 13 - 63,677
14. Chicago 34, Tampa Bay 31 (OT) - 62,260
15. Cincinnati at Indianapolis - 57,292
16. St. Louis 20, Oakland 0 - 50,164


You can tell me all you want about this team moving, I think the NFL needs Buffalo more than Buffalo needs the NFL.

Blackout rule stinks.

[Gunzlingr]

They need to build a smaller stadium so it is full all of the time!

[kernowboy]

Some teams have downsized

I think a stadium down town in the middle of the city with Field Turf and a sliding roof.

The sliding roof is crucial - it means the stadium is far, far more versatile and the city can use it for other events not just a dozen games a season. It also opens up the possibility of the SuperBowl and increases an opportunity for stadium naming rights.

In many ways then the stadium will become almost self financing and due to the still high attendance levels, the city of Buffalo can securtize any loans against future ticket sales, meaning it should not be excessively expensive. It does not need to be a starry shiny Cowboys type stadium. It needs to be efficient, effective, and functional.

And it is do-able.

[ICE74129]

Some teams have downsized

I think a stadium down town in the middle of the city with Field Turf and a sliding roof.

The sliding roof is crucial - it means the stadium is far, far more versatile and the city can use it for other events not just a dozen games a season. It also opens up the possibility of the SuperBowl and increases an opportunity for stadium naming rights.

In many ways then the stadium will become almost self financing and due to the still high attendance levels, the city of Buffalo can securtize any loans against future ticket sales, meaning it should not be excessively expensive. It does not need to be a starry shiny Cowboys type stadium. It needs to be efficient, effective, and functional.

And it is do-able.

downsize the number of seats, Increase luxury boxes, raise ticket prices to the NFL average, sell naming rights. We do that and the Bills will stay AND the NFL will be more willing to help.

NONE of that is going to happen until ralph wilson is no longer owner. Many still need to accept that fact.

[OpIv37]

downsize the number of seats, Increase luxury boxes, raise ticket prices to the NFL average, sell naming rights. We do that and the Bills will stay AND the NFL will be more willing to help.

NONE of that is going to happen until ralph wilson is no longer owner. Many still need to accept that fact.

who's gonna sit in the luxury boxes? Buffalo is not DC or Dallas- they're not gonna sell an entire level of luxury boxes for 100k a season each.

[kernowboy]

who's gonna sit in the luxury boxes? Buffalo is not DC or Dallas- they're not gonna sell an entire level of luxury boxes for 100k a season each.

Luxury boxes are only one way of selling stadium revenue. The same number of boxes as at Rich Stadium could be available ... or maybe some more just to cover any waiting list.

The principle revenue can be made by making the stadium truly multi-functional. The fewer calendar days that the stadium is not being used the cheaper it becomes per seat.

I like the idea of something like the Alamodome though with more luxury boxes and a sliding roof. Built for 65,000, it is expandable to 72,000 (playoffs and Superbowl) but can be hold up to 36,000 for Hockey, 35,000 for Arena concerts, 77,000 for stadium concerts and can also be used for exhibitions etc. The current Alamodome has 38 luxury boxes and 6,000 club level seats but the original design held 66 luxury boxes. The Ralph Wilson has 164 luxury suites and 6,878 club level seats.

So we need to built a 65,000-72,000 sliding roof stadium with 180 luxury suites and 7,000 club level seats. With a 36,000 hockey capacity the Sabres could use it in the Playoffs as well.

Versatility is the key.

[Crazygoo]

Luxury boxes are only one way of selling stadium revenue. The same number of boxes as at Rich Stadium could be available ... or maybe some more just to cover any waiting list.



Wheres Rich Stadium??

[Earthquake Enyart]

They have trouble selling the boxes that they have.

[kernowboy]

They have trouble selling the boxes that they have.

Ok well the new stadium doesn't need to have that many. Build the stadium with 120-150 then.

Luxury boxes are not the only way to make a stadium viable. Stick a sliding roof on it and you double its cash flow.

[kernowboy]

Wheres Rich Stadium??

sorry the Ralph Wilson (formerly Rich Stadium)

[Crazygoo]

Ok well the new stadium doesn't need to have that many. Build the stadium with 120-150 then.

Luxury boxes are not the only way to make a stadium viable. Stick a sliding roof on it and you double its cash flow.


Why would you want to put a roof on??? The weather is one of the best thigns about our stadium.

[Bill Brasky]

I am looking at the attendance figures from last week and this is how it was:

1. Philadelphia 36, N.Y. Giants 22 - 78,657
2. Pittsburgh 37, Carolina 3 - 73,798
3. Dallas 38, Atlanta 28 - 71,102
4. Buffalo 21, Miami 0 - 71,011
5. Baltimore 27, Cleveland 17 - 70,857
6. Green Bay 17, Detroit 9 - 70,472
7. Tennessee 24, Jacksonville 17 - 69,143
8. Washington 16, New Orleans 10 - 69,052
9. New England 40, Houston 7 - 68,756
10. San Francisco 24, Seattle 14 - 67,650
11. San Diego 20, Kansas City 9 - 66,583
12. Denver 37, Arizona 20 - 63,845
13. N.Y. Jets 26, Minnesota 13 - 63,677
14. Chicago 34, Tampa Bay 31 (OT) - 62,260
15. Cincinnati at Indianapolis - 57,292
16. St. Louis 20, Oakland 0 - 50,164


You can tell me all you want about this team moving, I think the NFL needs Buffalo more than Buffalo needs the NFL.

Blackout rule stinks.

great post from somebody who gets it!

there are teams other than Buffalo not selling games out this season...

KC - 79k seats in Arrowhead and they only drew 66k for the SD game... this right after their owner died

OAK - they can't keep people in the seats whether they're good or bad

JAX - well, we all know their story

MIN - they have not sold out every game.

People are making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be. There are teams with smaller stadiums that can't sell out the house. Big deal.

[kernowboy]

Why would you want to put a roof on??? The weather is one of the best thigns about our stadium.

SLIDING roof

It means it can be open during the football games, but can be closed when the venue is used for trade fairs, exhibitions, concerts, even ice hockey games.

It gives the stadium versatility

Stadiums become increasingly expensive if their use is limited. With the weather conditions in Buffalo, an open-air only stadium which provide limited options for revenue generation. Maximum revenue generation opportunities will help keep the Bills in Buffalo

[Jan Reimers]

These few recent nonsellouts will have nothing to do with the Bills' leaving or remaining in Buffalo.

Very simply, if a "local" buyer such as Tom Golisano steps up - and can reach a deal with Ralph or his estate - the Bills will stay. And a little lull in attendance will have no bearing on Golisano's decision to make an offer.

If no one on the local scene is interested, say hello to the LA Bills.

A full house every week will not keep them here, nor will a few blackouts send them away.

[Forward_Lateral]

70,000 + fans is not a "lull"

The NFL should change the defintion of "Sell-Out" to the avg capacity of every NFL stadium.

[Michael82]

70,000 + fans is not a "lull"

The NFL should change the defintion of "Sell-Out" to the avg capacity of every NFL stadium.
:hi5:

[Historian]

70,000 + fans is not a "lull"

The NFL should change the defintion of "Sell-Out" to the avg capacity of every NFL stadium.

I would be interested to know what that number is exactly.

(I'm too lazy to look it up.)

[RockStar36]

I think they should base the blackout on the stadium with the smallest capacity. Seems to me like the Bills are being punished for having a big stadium.

[raphael120]

70,000 + fans is not a "lull"

The NFL should change the defintion of "Sell-Out" to the avg capacity of every NFL stadium.

its the same concept for the revenue sharing, we get boned both ways.

we have more seats and more fans coming out than more teams and we get penalized

we make less money and have to contribute the same as the big teams to the revenue pool.

so not only do the bills draw more fans, we get blacked out, and all our revenue taken

[RockStar36]

One question, are tickets to Bills games cheaper than other NFL games?

[G. Host]

They need to build a smaller stadium so it is full all of the time!

I do not think the drunk sections (i.e. Rockpile section) add to game.

Better to have MORE "reserved" seat boxes even if they charge a minimal amount. I'd like the Bills to make more and more seats "reserved" (which other teams do not get revenue from).

Maybe even add some partial roofs.

[G. Host]

One question, are tickets to Bills games cheaper than other NFL games?
Significantly less in many cases yes.

[Historian]

Significantly less in many cases yes.

So are their operating expenses though.

Everything's relevent.

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=TheGhostofJimKelly]I am looking at the attendance figures from last week and this is how it was:

1. Philadelphia 36, N.Y. Giants 22 - 78,657
2. Pittsburgh 37, Carolina 3 - 73,798
3. Dallas 38, Atlanta 28 - 71,102
4. Buffalo 21, Miami 0 - 71,011
5. Baltimore 27, Cleveland 17 - 70,857
6. Green Bay 17, Detroit 9 - 70,472
7. Tennessee 24, Jacksonville 17 - 69,143
8. Washington 16, New Orleans 10 - 69,052
9. New England 40, Houston 7 - 68,756
10. San Francisco 24, Seattle 14 - 67,650
11. San Diego 20, Kansas City 9 - 66,583
12. Denver 37, Arizona 20 - 63,845
13. N.Y. Jets 26, Minnesota 13 - 63,677
14. Chicago 34, Tampa Bay 31 (OT) - 62,260
15. Cincinnati at Indianapolis - 57,292
16. St. Louis 20, Oakland 0 - 50,164



I heard somewhere that the Cardinals were allowed by the NFL to put tarps over some of there seats to beat the blackout rule. Why are we so screwed?!!

[Bill Brasky]

Just got off the phone with the KC, OAK, JAX, and BUF box offices.

Seems that tickets weren't sold this weekend cuz everybody is too busy moving to Tulsa.

[Typ0]

downsize the number of seats, Increase luxury boxes, raise ticket prices to the NFL average, sell naming rights. We do that and the Bills will stay AND the NFL will be more willing to help.

NONE of that is going to happen until ralph wilson is no longer owner. Many still need to accept that fact.

the problem is we don't have the corporate base to support the luxury boxes or purchase the naming rights. I'm sure there are companies out there that would pay 100K for naming rights...but that would be stupid and drive down the market value of the naming rights...and there is no one that can or will pay the value of the rights. Same for the luxury boxes.

[ddaryl]

I am looking at the attendance figures from last week and this is how it was:

1. Philadelphia 36, N.Y. Giants 22 - 78,657
2. Pittsburgh 37, Carolina 3 - 73,798
3. Dallas 38, Atlanta 28 - 71,102
4. Buffalo 21, Miami 0 - 71,011
5. Baltimore 27, Cleveland 17 - 70,857
6. Green Bay 17, Detroit 9 - 70,472
7. Tennessee 24, Jacksonville 17 - 69,143
8. Washington 16, New Orleans 10 - 69,052
9. New England 40, Houston 7 - 68,756
10. San Francisco 24, Seattle 14 - 67,650
11. San Diego 20, Kansas City 9 - 66,583
12. Denver 37, Arizona 20 - 63,845
13. N.Y. Jets 26, Minnesota 13 - 63,677
14. Chicago 34, Tampa Bay 31 (OT) - 62,260
15. Cincinnati at Indianapolis - 57,292
16. St. Louis 20, Oakland 0 - 50,164


You can tell me all you want about this team moving, I think the NFL needs Buffalo more than Buffalo needs the NFL.

Blackout rule stinks.


However whaen you figure in the revenue produced by luxury boxes, and then factor in the ticket prices in buffalo in comparison, the Bills just do not bring i nthe dough ray me like big market clubs, and that's where our problem lies.

[Typ0]

[quote=TheGhostofJimKelly]I am looking at the attendance figures from last week and this is how it was:

1. Philadelphia 36, N.Y. Giants 22 - 78,657
2. Pittsburgh 37, Carolina 3 - 73,798
3. Dallas 38, Atlanta 28 - 71,102
4. Buffalo 21, Miami 0 - 71,011
5. Baltimore 27, Cleveland 17 - 70,857
6. Green Bay 17, Detroit 9 - 70,472
7. Tennessee 24, Jacksonville 17 - 69,143
8. Washington 16, New Orleans 10 - 69,052
9. New England 40, Houston 7 - 68,756
10. San Francisco 24, Seattle 14 - 67,650
11. San Diego 20, Kansas City 9 - 66,583
12. Denver 37, Arizona 20 - 63,845
13. N.Y. Jets 26, Minnesota 13 - 63,677
14. Chicago 34, Tampa Bay 31 (OT) - 62,260
15. Cincinnati at Indianapolis - 57,292
16. St. Louis 20, Oakland 0 - 50,164



I heard somewhere that the Cardinals were allowed by the NFL to put tarps over some of there seats to beat the blackout rule. Why are we so screwed?!!


I guess it just goes over everyone's heads that it's the Bills who want the blackout not the NFL.

[jamze132]

Here is a thought.

Instead of coming up with $400 - $600 mil for a new stadium, why not just seriously renovate the Ralph and add a retractable roof? It would then make the stadium a multi-purpose venue for just about anything they could put inside a dome. It would be at least half as cheap as actually building another stadium and since the NFL just gave $300 mil to the Giants / Jets, we shouldn't have much of a problem getting $150 mil from them as well as the tax payers of New York. This may keep the Bills in Buffalo. And it wouldn't be that expensive considering the cost of new stadiums.

[Typ0]

Here is a thought.

Instead of coming up with $400 - $600 mil for a new stadium, why not just seriously renovate the Ralph and add a retractable roof? It would then make the stadium a multi-purpose venue for just about anything they could put inside a dome. It would be at least half as cheap as actually building another stadium and since the NFL just gave $300 mil to the Giants / Jets, we shouldn't have much of a problem getting $150 mil from them as well as the tax payers of New York. This may keep the Bills in Buffalo. And it wouldn't be that expensive considering the cost of new stadiums.

the orchard park community does not want any more events held there and they have shut them all down. the stadium does not belong in orchard park.

[Michael82]

the orchard park community does not want any more events held there and they have shut them all down. the stadium does not belong in orchard park.
:ill:

[kernowboy]

Here is a thought.

Instead of coming up with $400 - $600 mil for a new stadium, why not just seriously renovate the Ralph and add a retractable roof? It would then make the stadium a multi-purpose venue for just about anything they could put inside a dome. It would be at least half as cheap as actually building another stadium and since the NFL just gave $300 mil to the Giants / Jets, we shouldn't have much of a problem getting $150 mil from them as well as the tax payers of New York. This may keep the Bills in Buffalo. And it wouldn't be that expensive considering the cost of new stadiums.

So $150m from the NFL, $100m in stadium naming rights, 100 luxury boxes at $100,000 per year for 10 years = $100m so you already have $350m. Build on land already owned by the city especially if it needs to be cleaned up - environmental grants, get a SuperBowl as part of the deal - exceptions are at the discretion of the NFL, Rochester is about 70miles away, Niagara Falls 20 miles, Syracuse 140 miles, Cleveland only 170 miles, it should be possible to keep the NFL happy with hotel rooms if they bend their rules a little - they've done so in the past

[raphael120]

if you dont like ****in traffic and what not dont live next to a ****in stadium

[Earthquake Enyart]

Here is a thought.

Instead of coming up with $400 - $600 mil for a new stadium, why not just seriously renovate the Ralph and add a retractable roof? It would then make the stadium a multi-purpose venue for just about anything they could put inside a dome. It would be at least half as cheap as actually building another stadium and since the NFL just gave $300 mil to the Giants / Jets, we shouldn't have much of a problem getting $150 mil from them as well as the tax payers of New York. This may keep the Bills in Buffalo. And it wouldn't be that expensive considering the cost of new stadiums.
No. The Ralph is in the middle of nowhere.

[jamze132]

Gees.... say it don't spray it.

[Yasgur's Farm]

...Rochester is about 70miles away, Niagara Falls 20 miles, Syracuse 140 miles, Cleveland only 170 miles...Stadium must be built east of Buffalo (Darien Lake)... It is closer to the center of the fan base. The Bills don't draw from Cleveland... They have their own team. On the other hand, a stadium on the east side would draw more from Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Albany, Binghamton...

[Typ0]

Stadium must be built east of Buffalo (Darien Lake)... It is closer to the center of the fan base. The Bills don't draw from Cleveland... They have their own team. On the other hand, a stadium on the east side would draw more from Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Albany, Binghamton...


not true. there are many fans in canada.

[Typ0]

if they really want to start to fix buffalo, the buffalo bills will be located in buffalo.

there's a chance that darien lake is finished too!

[jamze132]

I remember going to Darien Lake when I was a little kid. I think the roller coaster was the Viper or the Python, I can't remember. it was kewl.

[YardRat]

I would be interested to know what that number is exactly.

(I'm too lazy to look it up.)

It's either 68,000 or 70,000, I can't remember which.

[BillsFever21]

One thing nobody is talking about is our ticket prices. It should be alot easier to sell 74,000 tickets at $45 a ticket then selling 65,000 tickets at $75 a ticket.

If we sell every seat we still don't bring in as much revenue as other teams who pile in 60-65 fans with higher ticket prices.

[Statman]

downsize the number of seats, Increase luxury boxes, raise ticket prices to the NFL average, sell naming rights. We do that and the Bills will stay AND the NFL will be more willing to help.

NONE of that is going to happen until ralph wilson is no longer owner. Many still need to accept that fact.
TV markets and luxury seat sales are what will drive franchises. Regular seat sales are secondary.

Who are you going to sell the luxury seats to? The Bills have done a remarkable job in marketing them in this region, but it may be a tall order to add too many more luxury seats or even continue to sell the ones they have when contracts are up for renewal.

[YardRat]

This area needs jobs, period.

The NFL is at the point where marketing by individual teams really might not make much of a difference...it's a product that sells itself just by it's mere presence.

Get more jobs, keep young people here instead of migrating, and the tickets will sell at a higher price, as will luxury boxes.

The state of the Bills is more a reflection of the local economy than it is any other factor.