One more time- could someone explain this ****ing Tampa 2 to me?

[OpIv37]

If the DL is supposed to generate the pass rush so the back 7 can play pass D and not blitz, who the **** is supposed to stop the run? If the LB's are dropping back into pass coverage and the DL is getting up field to rush the passer, there's a LOT of running room in there.

It seems like there's a fundamental flaw in the system.

[ICE74129]

ITS ****! pure and absolute ****. Look it worked about 5-6 years ago, since then teams have figured it out.

Running two small DT's isn't going to work. I am sick and tired of hearing about Chicago and their great D, its pure bull ****. how many championships for them with that D? NONE! Carolina ran up and down the field on them last year in the playoffs AT CHICAGO!

Hell Miami beat their asses I mean come on!


Marv should have taken Ngata and not whitner in the draft and I stand by it.

[OpIv37]

Whitner's been pretty damn good for us, but there's no doubt that our DL needs serious help.

[ICE74129]

Whitner's been pretty damn good for us, but there's no doubt that our DL needs serious help.At no time have I said Whitner won't be a damn good player. What I have said is upgrade the DL and just about any DB will be much better.

Football 101 Run and STOP THE RUN. We could have gotten by with anyone at SS if we had solidified DT. Marv though says we need light, small DT's. Again, how good is baltimores D this year? Who did they draft? Nuff said.

[Bufftp]

It is essentially a "crush" defense.
Designed to crush your heart at the end of the game.

[Forward_Lateral]

:rofl: Nobody seemed to think the Tampa 2 was horrible the past 7 games. The difference is, McGee is terrible in coverage this year, and Thomas is better. The only thing I can blame the coaches for is having McGee in there instead of Thomas. McGee got TORCHED twice for TDs today.

[Devin]

McGee got his fat contract extension. Did you expect him to play this season?

[OpIv37]

:rofl: Nobody seemed to think the Tampa 2 was horrible the past 7 games. The difference is, McGee is terrible in coverage this year, and Thomas is better. The only thing I can blame the coaches for is having McGee in there instead of Thomas. McGee got TORCHED twice for TDs today.

I didn't think Thomas played particularly well today either. He was out of position on the first TD and missed a tackle that lead to a 3rd down conversion. But you're right- McGee has been bad for most of the season.

The thing is that the Tampa 2 seems to work great in games where the other team is forced to pass. But when the game is close and the other team can still run late in the 4th quarter, we get killed every time. It's an excellent system for stopping the pass- but like ICE said, it's RUN and STOP THE RUN in the NFL. We got half of that equation right today, but lost because we missed on the other half.

[Forward_Lateral]

I didn't think Thomas played particularly well today either. He was out of position on the first TD and missed a tackle that lead to a 3rd down conversion. But you're right- McGee has been bad for most of the season.

The thing is that the Tampa 2 seems to work great in games where the other team is forced to pass. But when the game is close and the other team can still run late in the 4th quarter, we get killed every time. It's an excellent system for stopping the pass- but like ICE said, it's RUN and STOP THE RUN in the NFL. We got half of that equation right today, but lost because we missed on the other half.


The basic concept of the Tampa 2 is to be able to stop the run with your front 7. This means your corners have to be very good in coverage, and McGee hasn't been this year. If Nate leaves, the whole defensive scheme is going to have to change, or the Bills are going to have to sign a top cover corner.

You are right, not being able to stop the run doesn't help either, and this week it finally came back to bite the Bills.

Everyone needs to remember, Jauron has had ONE draft. He needs time to get the pieces to his puzzle on D. I think he and Fewell have done very well with what they have, and yes, I'm disappointed they lost, but I'm not disappointed with the overall effort. It was a play off type atmosphere, and I think the Bills would've won if Royal hadn't have screwed up. I honestly think that cost Buffalo the game.

[ICE74129]

:rofl: Nobody seemed to think the Tampa 2 was horrible the past 7 games. The difference is, McGee is terrible in coverage this year, and Thomas is better. The only thing I can blame the coaches for is having McGee in there instead of Thomas. McGee got TORCHED twice for TDs today.

I thought it sucked all year and I said since april drafting whitner was wrong

[Forward_Lateral]

I thought it sucked all year and I said since april drafting whitner was wrong

Post Edited.

[OpIv37]

The basic concept of the Tampa 2 is to be able to stop the run with your front 7. This means your corners have to be very good in coverage, and McGee hasn't been this year. If Nate leaves, the whole defensive scheme is going to have to change, or the Bills are going to have to sign a top cover corner.

You are right, not being able to stop the run doesn't help either, and this week it finally came back to bite the Bills.

Everyone needs to remember, Jauron has had ONE draft. He needs time to get the pieces to his puzzle on D. I think he and Fewell have done very well with what they have, and yes, I'm disappointed they lost, but I'm not disappointed with the overall effort. It was a play off type atmosphere, and I think the Bills would've won if Royal hadn't have screwed up. I honestly think that cost Buffalo the game.

The LB's seem to drop back into pass coverage more often than they play the run.

And if we don't have the personnel, why are we running the system? You can't fit a round peg into a square hole. And if you try, the result is being 27th in the league in rush D.

[Forward_Lateral]

The LB's seem to drop back into pass coverage more often than they play the run.

And if we don't have the personnel, why are we running the system? You can't fit a round peg into a square hole. And if you try, the result is being 27th in the league in rush D.
Well, the whole point is to get the system in place, and have your D learn it. Look at how much the D improved (outside of today) over the course of the season.

I do understand where you are coming from, and it is frustrating. The only thing I can say, is hopefully Dick and Marv get a few more pieces that they are missing on D and they somehow keep Nate, or figure out a way to replace him.

[OpIv37]

Well, the whole point is to get the system in place, and have your D learn it. Look at how much the D improved (outside of today) over the course of the season.

I do understand where you are coming from, and it is frustrating. The only thing I can say, is hopefully Dick and Marv get a few more pieces that they are missing on D and they somehow keep Nate, or figure out a way to replace him.

I think Nate's as good as gone- there are too few CB's available in FA and too many teams that are WAY under the cap. Although I haven't been thrilled with him, at this point I think keeping him is the lesser of two evils- but I don't really think we'll have a choice in the matter.

[YardRat]

Nobody expected this thing to be fixed in one year, especially the first year of a new system.

I also was looking for DT or o-line with the first pick in the draft and was slightly stunned when they took Whitner, but in hindsight it was a good pick and I stand by that.

[Mahdi]

ITS ****! pure and absolute ****. Look it worked about 5-6 years ago, since then teams have figured it out.

Running two small DT's isn't going to work. I am sick and tired of hearing about Chicago and their great D, its pure bull ****. how many championships for them with that D? NONE! Carolina ran up and down the field on them last year in the playoffs AT CHICAGO!

Hell Miami beat their asses I mean come on!


Marv should have taken Ngata and not whitner in the draft and I stand by it.
it won TB a SB....

[Michael82]

If you look at the teams running the Tampa 2, they are getting run over like crazy. I'm sick of that system. :mad:

Let's see the 3-4. :up:

[Akhippo]

We have no DT that is anywhere near Warren Sapp potential. Or a backer like D Brooks. Or a SS heady enough yet like Lynch.

[OpIv37]

it won TB a SB....

yeah like 6 years ago. But now offenses have figured it out. At one point, the no-huddle K Gun got us to 4 consecutive SB's and the Run & Gun offense had the Oilers shattering offensive records and making the playoffs every year. And Jerry Grey's 46 had us #2 in D for consecutive years. But where are those systems now? Opponents figure these things out and teams have to adapt.

[justasportsfan]

The funny part is that it's originator has had one of the crappiest run D over the years. The Colts are most likely NOT going anywhere in the playoffs because of it.

[DynaPaul]

Why do we have to limit ourselves to one system? Why can't we teach our players a couple of different systems and then play a particular system against a particular team week to week? Sure, it's a personnel thing but I think the right coaching could make it work.

[Jan Reimers]

I think I have it. It puts minimal pressure on the QB while providing no containment, allows running backs to roam free, creates no turnovers and never makes a stop in a critical situation. At least that's how it performed yesterday.

[Michael82]

The funny part is that it's originator has had one of the crappiest run D over the years. The Colts are most likely NOT going anywhere in the playoffs because of it.
Good point. Scrap that system! :mad:

[PECKERWOOD]

St. Louis won a SB with it as well... I'm not sure though, I'm really not that fond of it.. I would take a 3-4 or 4-3 over it any day of the week.

[madness]

If the DL is supposed to generate the pass rush so the back 7 can play pass D and not blitz, who the **** is supposed to stop the run? If the LB's are dropping back into pass coverage and the DL is getting up field to rush the passer, there's a LOT of running room in there.

It seems like there's a fundamental flaw in the system.

I didn't see any flaws yesterday.

[madness]

The funny part is that it's originator has had one of the crappiest run D over the years. The Colts are most likely NOT going anywhere in the playoffs because of it.

Justa is that really you??? NOOOOOOO!!

[OpIv37]

I didn't see any flaws yesterday.

I posted this in another thread:


I'm still not sold on the scheme. The Bears have the PERFECT personnel for it, which is something we'll have in Buffalo. And Indy relies mostly on O- their D had some HORRIBLE stretches this year, and Indy's O is something else we'll never have in Buffalo. Hell, even if we were able to trade for Indy's entire offense, it still wouldn't work well because of the weather late in the season.

Unless you have Chicago's personnel, it's a "bend but don't break" D designed to stop the pass. Well guess what? You win football games by running and stopping the run, and no one can pass in Buffalo after October anyway. I think it's another trend that Buffalo's jumping on right as other teams are exposing it.

You didn't see any flaws because they were masked by the skill of Chicago's personnel and Indy's offense.

To use a cliche, the Cover 2 is a square peg and Buffalo is a round hole.

[madness]

I posted this in another thread:



You didn't see any flaws because they were masked by the skill of Chicago's personnel and Indy's offense.

To use a cliche, the Cover 2 is a square peg and Buffalo is a round hole.

Chicago has lost a few starters on D and they're backup players were able to step in with the same success. Granted, it took them a couple weeks to get up to speed.. but once they did, their D stepped it right back up to the same level.

Our D is younger and way more inexperienced then Chicago's. With a year under their belt and some key acquisitions, I guarantee you will see better results next year.

[Meathead]

The Colts are NOT going anywhere in the playoffs because of it.
:lolpoint: justa

[OpIv37]

Chicago has lost a few starters on D and they're backup players were able to step in with the same success. Granted, it took them a couple weeks to get up to speed.. but once they did, their D stepped it right back up to the same level.

Our D is younger and way more inexperienced then Chicago's. With a year under their belt and some key acquisitions, I guarantee you will see better results next year.

we were 28th in run D- it's hard to get much worse.

Also, we desperately need DL help and there isn't much available.

[madness]

we were 28th in run D- it's hard to get much worse.

Also, we desperately need DL help and there isn't much available.

Rankings mean squat. Who finished last in the NFL against the run? What team has had one of the best run defenses through the playoffs? ...the Colts.

I think the degree of help we need on the DL differs between you and what Marv & Co. thinks.

[EDS]

Rankings mean squat. Who finished last in the NFL against the run? What team has had one of the best run defenses through the playoffs? ...the Colts.

I think the degree of help we need on the DL differs between you and what Marv & Co. thinks.

A team's run defense looks alot better when said team's offense scores consistently and forces opponents to pass to keep up.

[OpIv37]

Rankings mean squat. Who finished last in the NFL against the run? What team has had one of the best run defenses through the playoffs? ...the Colts.

I think the degree of help we need on the DL differs between you and what Marv & Co. thinks.

Even if you say rankings mean squat, we still lost several games because we couldn't stop the run and get our O back on the field.

If Marv and Co don't think the DL needs a lot of help, they're sorely mistaken and next year will look an awful lot like this year.

I don't see how anyone who actually watched the Bills play this year can think that this DL is anywhere close to good enough.

[Mahdi]

Even if you say rankings mean squat, we still lost several games because we couldn't stop the run and get our O back on the field.

If Marv and Co don't think the DL needs a lot of help, they're sorely mistaken and next year will look an awful lot like this year.

I don't see how anyone who actually watched the Bills play this year can think that this DL is anywhere close to good enough.
The D-Line is not good enough right now but I think they are gettin there. I see the MLB spot as more of a concern than the DL. If you watch the games you see that often the DL is doing exactly what they are supposed to... get down the line and getting penetration. However you dont see the MLB making the right fills and fits, shedding blockers and making the plays at the line, thats the difference between Buffalo and Chicago. Dont get me wrong I love fletch... just not for this D. I would however like to see one more DT added instead of Tim Anderson. So, Triplett, McCargo, Williams and FA/ Draft.

[OpIv37]

The D-Line is not good enough right now but I think they are gettin there. I see the MLB spot as more of a concern than the DL. If you watch the games you see that often the DL is doing exactly what they are supposed to... get down the line and getting penetration. However you dont see the MLB making the right fills and fits, shedding blockers and making the plays at the line, thats the difference between Buffalo and Chicago. Dont get me wrong I love fletch... just not for this D. I would however like to see one more DT added instead of Tim Anderson. So, Triplett, McCargo, Williams and FA/ Draft.

how many more games are we going to lose because we can't stop the run before the DL "gets there"? The DT's for Chicago and the DE's for Indy make tackles on the RB- you never see our DL guys doing that, unless it's because they chased the RB down from behind after he already gained 6 yards. Also, if our DT's were, I don't know, TAKING ON BLOCKERS, maybe the LB's would be free to make a tackle. But when the DT's run right by the blocks but don't make the tackle, the guards and center are free to challenge our LB's.

[mysticsoto]

how many more games are we going to lose because we can't stop the run before the DL "gets there"? The DT's for Chicago and the DE's for Indy make tackles on the RB- you never see our DL guys doing that, unless it's because they chased the RB down from behind after he already gained 6 yards. Also, if our DT's were, I don't know, TAKING ON BLOCKERS, maybe the LB's would be free to make a tackle. But when the DT's run right by the blocks but don't make the tackle, the guards and center are free to challenge our LB's.

What's your solution, Op? You like big bodies in front. Okay, who in FA is a good big body? Alan Branch is going to be gone by our pick in the draft (unless you advocate moving up). Who can we draft that will fit your mold? What is the list of things that should be done that in your opinion will better this D-line?

[Mahdi]

how many more games are we going to lose because we can't stop the run before the DL "gets there"? The DT's for Chicago and the DE's for Indy make tackles on the RB- you never see our DL guys doing that, unless it's because they chased the RB down from behind after he already gained 6 yards. Also, if our DT's were, I don't know, TAKING ON BLOCKERS, maybe the LB's would be free to make a tackle. But when the DT's run right by the blocks but don't make the tackle, the guards and center are free to challenge our LB's.
ok,,,, the system is not about taking on blockers... its about PENETRATION... getting to the ball carrier early. And it works if you have the right ppl. Well Buffalo is in the process of doing that. Yes we did lose games this year because we couldnt stop the run, but that is because you cant change everything in one offseason. We need a MLB suited for the system and yes another DT that can play the run but is still versatile enough to pass rush. Im sure they already know that at OBD so im not worried because I know that this staff has a plan and they are executing it. Our pass D was in the top 5 and now they'll fix the run among other things like OL.

[OpIv37]

What's your solution, Op? You like big bodies in front. Okay, who in FA is a good big body? Alan Branch is going to be gone by our pick in the draft (unless you advocate moving up). Who can we draft that will fit your mold? What is the list of things that should be done that in your opinion will better this D-line?

I really don't know enough about who's available in FA to tell you, but I'll try to take a look at it and come up with some ideas. Relying on the draft isn't going to get it done because there may not be anyone available by our picks and the draft is always a crapshoot.

I do know this: if we don't get two better DT's, a MLB to replace Fletch and maybe another DE, this D won't be any better next year than it was this year. And it clearly wasn't good enough this year.

[OpIv37]

ok,,,, the system is not about taking on blockers... its about PENETRATION... getting to the ball carrier early. And it works if you have the right ppl. Well Buffalo is in the process of doing that. Yes we did lose games this year because we couldnt stop the run, but that is because you cant change everything in one offseason. We need a MLB suited for the system and yes another DT that can play the run but is still versatile enough to pass rush. Im sure they already know that at OBD so im not worried because I know that this staff has a plan and they are executing it. Our pass D was in the top 5 and now they'll fix the run among other things like OL.

having a plan and executing it are two different things. How do you know we won't be outbid for the guys we want in FA, or that the guys we want in the draft will still be there?

I think going to the cover 2 was a bad decision and now we're stuck with it.

[DraftBoy]

Op your on the right track to some degree, but not there. We do need a new DE and we need a bigger MLB.

In this system the idea is to have LB's with great awareness, that way they see run and react or see pass and drop into coverage. We dont run a pure Cover 2, bc we do blitz some. Now the DL has to be slight quick, and penetrating. They will not and should not pick up blockers, the whole idea of this system is to have DL and LB's who can shed not take up blockers. Its not all about personnell, some of it is technique. We've given Fewell system a grand total of 1 year. Tripplett looked much better in the 2nd half of the year than the first (though thats not saying a ton), Williams was our only consistently good DT, bc he knows the system and the technique. The LE was a joke, and Schoebel is horrid against the run, and should be used only as a pass rusher.

I think we need a new LE, and new LB, and 2 CB's on D. Other than that, I think we are pretty good on D.

[OpIv37]

Op your on the right track to some degree, but not there. We do need a new DE and we need a bigger MLB.

In this system the idea is to have LB's with great awareness, that way they see run and react or see pass and drop into coverage. We dont run a pure Cover 2, bc we do blitz some. Now the DL has to be slight quick, and penetrating. They will not and should not pick up blockers, the whole idea of this system is to have DL and LB's who can shed not take up blockers. Its not all about personnell, some of it is technique. We've given Fewell system a grand total of 1 year. Tripplett looked much better in the 2nd half of the year than the first (though thats not saying a ton), Williams was our only consistently good DT, bc he knows the system and the technique. The LE was a joke, and Schoebel is horrid against the run, and should be used only as a pass rusher.

I think we need a new LE, and new LB, and 2 CB's on D. Other than that, I think we are pretty good on D.

That's a tall order for the D. And we ABSOLUTELY need at least one DT to replace Tim Anderson, the guy is terrible.

As far as Tripplett- he sucked at the beginning of the year, had a few good games after the bye, then disappeared again for the last few games. Given our other needs, we're probably stuck with him, but he's yet another example of the Bills trying to make another team's backup into our starter.

As far as shedding blocks, no one did it- definitely not Spikes or Fletcher. I'm not sure how realistic that is in the NFL, especially when you rely on an undersized DL.

[DraftBoy]

That's a tall order for the D. And we ABSOLUTELY need at least one DT to replace Tim Anderson, the guy is terrible.

As far as Tripplett- he sucked at the beginning of the year, had a few good games after the bye, then disappeared again for the last few games. Given our other needs, we're probably stuck with him, but he's yet another example of the Bills trying to make another team's backup into our starter.

As far as shedding blocks, no one did it- definitely not Spikes or Fletcher. I'm not sure how realistic that is in the NFL, especially when you rely on an undersized DL.


Its not at all unrealistic imo. The Cover2 is made for speed. If you have fast LB's, but slow plugging DT's, your going to have problems with your LB's flowing to the ball. Thats why penetration is key in this system, I dont think its too hard to ask a MLB to shed the block of a moving OL. OL block better when standing up or moving back, not trying to move forward (atleast most). We still need some personnell, yes, but we arent sure on the DT till we see what McCargo brings. As for LB one of the best is Brandon Siler in Round 2.

[OpIv37]

Its not at all unrealistic imo. The Cover2 is made for speed. If you have fast LB's, but slow plugging DT's, your going to have problems with your LB's flowing to the ball. Thats why penetration is key in this system, I dont think its too hard to ask a MLB to shed the block of a moving OL. OL block better when standing up or moving back, not trying to move forward (atleast most). We still need some personnell, yes, but we arent sure on the DT till we see what McCargo brings. As for LB one of the best is Brandon Siler in Round 2.

McCargo did not impress me at all. Granted, he had less than half of a rookie season before he got hurt, so I'm not willing to completely write him off yet. But at the same time, I think it would be stupid to rely on him and hope for the best if there's a better option available. At the very least, bring in two DT's and cut Anderson and Jefferson. That way we could upgrade DT and keep McCargo for a year to see if he shows something.

[DraftBoy]

McCargo did not impress me at all. Granted, he had less than half of a rookie season before he got hurt, so I'm not willing to completely write him off yet. But at the same time, I think it would be stupid to rely on him and hope for the best if there's a better option available. At the very least, bring in two DT's and cut Anderson and Jefferson. That way we could upgrade DT and keep McCargo for a year to see if he shows something.


How many DT's do you think we need? We have two solid ones in Tripplett and Williams, we need only bring in one more solid DT, and maybe a servicable 4th. Personally Id either sign a DT in FA, or draft a late rounder and go into the season with those as my DT's.

[OpIv37]

How many DT's do you think we need? We have two solid ones in Tripplett and Williams, we need only bring in one more solid DT, and maybe a servicable 4th. Personally Id either sign a DT in FA, or draft a late rounder and go into the season with those as my DT's.

we run a rotation so we need at least 5 with a 6th on the PS. We have Tripplett, Williams, McCargo, Anderson and Jefferson.

I don't know if I'd call Tripplett "solid"- he had maybe 6 good games out of 16. Williams has shown some promise. McCargo hasn't really shown anything. Anderson and Jefferson blow. Hargrove has great energy and determination but doesn't seem to have the natural ability. I think maybe he's more suited for DE.

Our DT's are horrid.

[ublinkwescore]

ITS ****! pure and absolute ****. Look it worked about 5-6 years ago, since then teams have figured it out.

Running two small DT's isn't going to work. I am sick and tired of hearing about Chicago and their great D, its pure bull ****. how many championships for them with that D? NONE! Carolina ran up and down the field on them last year in the playoffs AT CHICAGO!

Hell Miami beat their asses I mean come on!


Marv should have taken Ngata and not whitner in the draft and I stand by it.

I just felt like quoting Ice - since he's gone and all...

:snicker:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I don't know how many times I have already addressed this, but let me try again:

The Tampa 2 is as different from a conventional 4-3 or the Titans 46 that G.Williams brought to the Bills as a 3-4 defense is. And, just like you need to have the right personnel to make a 3-4 work, you need to have the right people to make this defense work. The Bills brought in a number of players who fit this defense last off-season, but could not bring in enough to make it work the way it should right away. They will have to rectify that situation this off-season and, from the comments that M.Levy made towards the end of the season and what some reports have stated, they appear to be focused on doing that.

The key to stopping the run in this defense is in the middle--which just happens to be where the Bills were the weakest last season. The 1-gap DT who plays on or just off the shoulder of the center must either penetrate to stop the RB in the backfield or, if he can't penetrate, hold his ground against the double-team from the center and offensive guard. Tim Anderson did neither well and ultimately was benched--I expect and all indications are that he will be gone or buried at the end of the bench next season. For a rookie, Kyle Williams did a decent job of penetrating--logging a number of tackles or assists for little or no gain or a loss--but simply wasn't strong enough to hold up against double-teams. The team reportedly has asked Williams to come in bigger next season and that will help, but the Bills need another DT to play this position--whether that will be a beefed up McCargo or someone that they bring in this off-season, through the draft or free agency, remains to be seen. No question that this is a position of need.

The Bills also need better play out of the MLB spot. As has been pointed out in other posts, the LBs in this defense have to run to the ball, shedding or avoiding blockers on the way. Neither Fletcher-Baker nor Spikes did this well last season: Spikes because of his injuries, Fletcher-Baker because he simply couldn't. The MLB is a primary run-stopper in this defense: just look at the tackle numbers put up by Urlacher, Gary Brackett and Shelton Quarles You need to have a MLB who fits the requirements of this defense in order to stop the run and not every MLB has those qualities: while everyone is focused on how Bob Sanders' return has helped the Colts' D, they have missed how much having Brackett in the middle instead of Morris has helped the run D as well. Unfortunately, after having been effective in this defense when he was younger, before he came to Buffalo, Fletcher-Baker didn't get the job done last season. There's a reason that the Bills are reported to have been unhappy with F-B last season and looking to replace him this off-season, even though F-B offers better leadership for the team's young players than Spikes does. Getting a MLB who fits the system (I don't know if Crowell does, although there are some reports that the Bills are considering moving him to MLB and he did play MLB in college--they would know better than I) will help improve the run D as much as having a pair of 1-gap DTs who can penetrate and/or hold up against the double-team next year.

Those were the biggest weaknesses in the Bills run defense this past season, but not the only ones. None of the Bills LBs or safeties had a lot of experience playing in the system on the NFL level and it showed.

At linebacker, Crowell appeared to make the best adjustment and was looking like the kind of play-maker that this defense requires at the WLB position (L.Briggs, C.June, D.Brooks). Ellison did well for a rookie and always seemed to end up around the ball (a requirement from a LB in this defense which relies on gang-tackling), but also appeared to be lost and out of position at times--which is something that he should be able to correct with experience. Spikes, hampered by injuries, missed all of training camp and was a shadow of himself until the last game of the season. If the Bills do not replace him, Spikes is going to be crucial to any improvement that the Bills make in their run defense next season: a fully healthy Spikes is a play-maker who can shed blockers, run to the ball, bring down ball-carriers when the MLB and DTs are neutralized and create turnovers, all things that he was incapable of doing this past season that this defense requires from the LBs.

As for the safeties, Whitner and Simpson both had terrific rookie seasons, but their inexperience hurt the run defense. The Tampa 2 requires a lot of the safeties: they not only have to be able to cover the deep outside routes in the passing game, but they also play a critical role in the run defense, especially the strong safety: just look at the difference in the Indy and Chicago run defenses with and without Bob Sanders and Mike Brown (yes, the Bears miss T.Harris a lot, but they also miss Brown a lot as well). Donte Whitner was drafted to be the Bills' Bob Sanders (those who say that Whitner is too small at 5'10" 210 to be a difference maker at safety ignore the fact that Sanders is 5'8" 206 and is a huge difference maker for their defense) and he certainly has the potential to be. However, as anyone who watched the Bills this season knows, Whitner took the wrong angle to the RB on many occasions this past season: instead of stopping the runner for a short gain at best, the RB got by him for a big gain. The same happened to Simpson, although his responsibilities against the run are less crucial. Both Whitner and Simpson should get better with experience: it took Bob Sanders a season before he started to become the force that has made him the glue that makes the Indy defense effective. Better run support from their safeties will also help the Bills improve their run defense next season--one need only look at the Indy-New England game on Sunday to realize how a couple of good tackles in the running game by the strong safety can help a defense.

As for Larry Tripplett: while Tripplett did not set the world on fire by any means at the 3-gap DT spot, he wasn't as responsible for the Bills' bad run D as some seem to think. Yes, he could have done a better job of penetrating and making tackles in the backfield. But, with the Bills' weakness at the 1-gap DT spot, teams did not have to run at Tripplett: with the 3-gap DT lined up outside of the OG's outside shoulder and the Bills not having a 1-gap DT who could consistently hold his ground, they could run at the 1-gap DT, where the 3-gap DT would have difficulty getting to the RB or the hole in time, all they wanted. The 3-gap DT will always have a hard time making plays if the 1-gap DT and MLB can't do what they are supposed to do in this defense and, as a result, Tripplett didn't make many plays in the running game. If the Bills get better at the 1-gap and MLB spots, Tripplett should begin to show up more--then, if he doesn't, he is open to justifiable criticism.

Unlike most other defenses, the Tampa 2 is a very simple defense. But, it is a defensive system--the key word here being "system"--that requires that every player do what he is supposed to do and be where he is supposed to be in order for it to be effective. If a player plays his technique wrong, if he is out of position or gets beat, there is going to be a hole in the defense that the opposition can exploit. That is why speed and relentless pursuit are required: because if a hole opens up and the opponent goes through it, everyone has to run to the ball to make the stop. The Bills did not have players at every position last season who could do that they were supposed to do and at times lacked the discipline to do those things. In some instances, where they had the right players, they lacked the experience to get to where they were supposed to be for the system to be effective. They're not missing that many players, but they need to make sure that they get the players that they need this off-season in order to have the right players at every position next year. That is the front office's job. If they do that, they should get better at stopping the run next season: it usually takes a couple of years for a team to improve after a new defensive system is installed and past history with Indy and Chicago show that they did get better the next season.

Finally, you also have to understand and take into consideration that this is a defense that is designed to limit scoring, not necessarily yardage. I know that this will be hard for some people to understand. But, the idea behind the Tampa 2 is to prevent the opposition from getting the big play and to force the opponent to use many plays to move the ball down the field: the more plays the opponents run, the more likely they are to commit a drive stalling penalty or turn the ball over or fall short of the goal line and have to settle for 3 points instead of 7. Yardage is not as important as points. Let me repeat that for those who missed it or cannot comprehend: the philosophy behind this defense is that yardage yielded is not as important as points given up.... The basic approach is to attack and pressure the opposition while preventing the big play until they make a mistake or your defenders are able to make a big play, especially a turnover, even if you give up a few yards in the process. Teams that are proficient at playing this defense get enough big stops (sacks, tackles for losses) and turnovers and limit the gains that they give up (a 3-5 yard run instead of an 8-15 yard run), that they are able to keep the total yardage that they give up to a minimum. But, no matter how much yardage they give up, the key is points.

The Bills did a reasonable job of generating sacks this past season, but did not get anywhere near enough big stops or turnovers. Because of their lack of proper personnel at every position and inexperience, they let their opponents have too many 8-10 yard gains and too many big runs. They will have to do a better job in all of those areas next season if they want to legitimately contend for a playoff berth with the schedule that they have. But, let me conclude by pointing out just two things to those of you who are so concerned by the fact that the Bills finished 28th in rushing defense this past season---1.) in spite of that, the Bills finished 10th in points allowed; 2.) with both Super Bowl teams playing a Tampa 2 system, there will be three different teams in recent years that have won the Super Bowl playing this defensive system: St.Louis, Tampa Bay and this year's winner. Without having all the right players to play the system well, the Bills shaved more than 5 points off of their points yielded per game this season and this is a system that can and has gotten teams to Super Bowl victories. Now, it is up to the Bills' front office and coaching staff to make sure that it works that well for the Buffalo Bills.

[madness]

:goodpost:

[mysticsoto]

Outstanding explanation LTBF. If people continue to question the Cover-2 we may need to ask the mods to place this post as a "sticky" above and just reference it.

If I were to guess, people around here were spoiled by the inability of teams to run on us back when we had Ted Washington and Pat Williams (and later Sam Adams). Well, that system is gone and we have a new system that has a different focus. I was never a huge fan of the cover-2, but it's what they are implementing and I'm willing to give them a chance to get the right personnel to implement the scheme with before I start criticizing...

[OpIv37]

Finally, you also have to understand and take into consideration that this is a defense that is designed to limit scoring, not necessarily yardage. I know that this will be hard for some people to understand. But, the idea behind the Tampa 2 is to prevent the opposition from getting the big play and to force the opponent to use many plays to move the ball down the field: the more plays the opponents run, the more likely they are to commit a drive stalling penalty or turn the ball over or fall short of the goal line and have to settle for 3 points instead of 7. Yardage is not as important as points. Let me repeat that for those who missed it or cannot comprehend: the philosophy behind this defense is that yardage yielded is not as important as points given up.... The basic approach is to attack and pressure the opposition while preventing the big play until they make a mistake or your defenders are able to make a big play, especially a turnover, even if you give up a few yards in the process. Teams that are proficient at playing this defense get enough big stops (sacks, tackles for losses) and turnovers and limit the gains that they give up (a 3-5 yard run instead of an 8-15 yard run), that they are able to keep the total yardage that they give up to a minimum. But, no matter how much yardage they give up, the key is points.



good explanation, but I really have to take issue with this part. Giving the offense more plays is the LAST thing you want to do- it gives them more chances to get it right and puts pressure on the D late in games when they're tired. It's difficult to score on offense and defenses tend to wear down faster than offenses, so the goal should always be for the D to get off the field as quickly as possible.

Once again, the Bears have the personnel to get off the field and the Colts have the personnel for sustained drives on offense- that's why the D's work for them. The Bills, on the other hand, don't do either of those things particularly well.

Madness is making a ridiculous argument by trying to suggest this system is a good idea because the Colts and Bears made it work (and you can debate how well the Colts made it work). Well, his big logical fallacy is that we're not the Colts or the Bears- we're not even close in terms of talent or experience.

[OpIv37]

Outstanding explanation LTBF. If people continue to question the Cover-2 we may need to ask the mods to place this post as a "sticky" above and just reference it.

If I were to guess, people around here were spoiled by the inability of teams to run on us back when we had Ted Washington and Pat Williams (and later Sam Adams). Well, that system is gone and we have a new system that has a different focus. I was never a huge fan of the cover-2, but it's what they are implementing and I'm willing to give them a chance to get the right personnel to implement the scheme with before I start criticizing...

that's another thing that bothers me- they went cheap on the DL last year despite the fact that DT's are an integral part of the defensive system they were trying to run. They also went with a S early in the draft despite the fact that the system relies on pressure by the front four to make the safety's job easier. Seems counterintuitive and it showed on the field.

[madness]

good explanation, but I really have to take issue with this part. Giving the offense more plays is the LAST thing you want to do- it gives them more chances to get it right and puts pressure on the D late in games when they're tired. It's difficult to score on offense and defenses tend to wear down faster than offenses, so the goal should always be for the D to get off the field as quickly as possible.

Once again, the Bears have the personnel to get off the field and the Colts have the personnel for sustained drives on offense- that's why the D's work for them. The Bills, on the other hand, don't do either of those things particularly well.

Madness is making a ridiculous argument by trying to suggest this system is a good idea because the Colts and Bears made it work (and you can debate how well the Colts made it work). Well, his big logical fallacy is that we're not the Colts or the Bears- we're not even close in terms of talent or experience.

We're not the Colts or Bears? Get out of town. You're ridiculous argument is that you need a potent offensive attack or a probowler in every position which is neither the case. Six teams are now using the Tampa 2 at variable degrees of success. Success IN ANY DEFENSIVE SCHEME depends on how talented your roster is and how well the scheme is taught and understood.

[mysticsoto]

that's another thing that bothers me- they went cheap on the DL last year despite the fact that DT's are an integral part of the defensive system they were trying to run. They also went with a S early in the draft despite the fact that the system relies on pressure by the front four to make the safety's job easier. Seems counterintuitive and it showed on the field.

Op, it's great to want to improve the Dline - I'd love for them to do so. But was the correct personnel there? Who was the correct personnel that would have made our Dline better? Whitner was the correct personnel to make our Secondary fit the scheme. They went with what was available. They are not magicians and can't conjure up a player that they might need...

[OpIv37]

We're not the Colts or Bears? Get out of town. You're ridiculous argument is that you need a potent offensive attack or a probowler in every position which is neither the case. Six teams are now using the Tampa 2 at variable degrees of success. Success IN ANY DEFENSIVE SCHEME depends on how talented your roster is and how well the scheme is taught and understood.

but not every defensive scheme can be successful, regardless of personnel or how well it's taught. Other teams figure these systems out and they go away. Look at the 46. It fell apart for Buffalo in 05 and Washington in 06- both teams that had experience and the personnel for the systems.

And right now, we don't have the talent on our roster to pull off the scheme we're trying to run. You're saying because six other teams made it work, so can we. Well guess what? Those 6 teams have coaches and players that we don't have. There's no logical connection between what other teams have done and what the Bills are trying to do.

And you're giving WAY too much credit to the Colts D. Oohhhh, they shut down the Ravens! I saw the Ravens live the last week of the season, and their offense was full of miscues. The fans were extremely frustrated with McNair and there were some obvious long-running struggles there. Against the Pats, the Colts D gave up 28 points (taking away the defensive score), including 2 70-yard drives. You tried to blame it on ST breakdowns, but if you read Lifetime's post, he said the system is designed to prevent scoring but not necessarily yardage. Well guess what? The Colts failed at both. They allowed long scoring drives and scores on shorter drives.

Your logic is "because this system works for the Bears and Colts, it will work for the Bills." Well, last time I checked, there were some distinct differences between the Bills and these two teams that you're not accounting for.

[OpIv37]

Op, it's great to want to improve the Dline - I'd love for them to do so. But was the correct personnel there? Who was the correct personnel that would have made our Dline better? Whitner was the correct personnel to make our Secondary fit the scheme. They went with what was available. They are not magicians and can't conjure up a player that they might need...

no, but they can apply a system that's a better fit for the personnel they DO have. Instead, a fundamental component of the D we're trying to run SUCKS, and there's another weak crop of DT's in the draft and FA. So, what good is a system if we have to waste 2 whole seasons before we can get the correct personnel for it?

[mysticsoto]

good explanation, but I really have to take issue with this part. Giving the offense more plays is the LAST thing you want to do- it gives them more chances to get it right and puts pressure on the D late in games when they're tired. It's difficult to score on offense and defenses tend to wear down faster than offenses, so the goal should always be for the D to get off the field as quickly as possible.

Once again, the Bears have the personnel to get off the field and the Colts have the personnel for sustained drives on offense- that's why the D's work for them. The Bills, on the other hand, don't do either of those things particularly well.

Madness is making a ridiculous argument by trying to suggest this system is a good idea because the Colts and Bears made it work (and you can debate how well the Colts made it work). Well, his big logical fallacy is that we're not the Colts or the Bears- we're not even close in terms of talent or experience.

One more thing, if LTBF doesn't mind me answering for him...you do want the offense to have to take more short plays rather than take a few bombs and take it in:

#1 - as LTBF mentions, there is more chance for errors in penalty or execution by the other team. Okay, teams like the Patriots won't make too many errors on execution, but holding calls happen all the time when linemen are trying to keep penetrators from getting to the QB.

#2 - Turnovers. I saw our CBs ripping the ball out often from WRs or RBs. I also saw more interceptions. With shorter plays, there is more chance for anything to happen with the ball. Remember that this system has everyone containing the person with the ball. Things happen and that ball can pop out. With shorter plays, there are more opportunities.

#3 - We slow the game down a bit. This does mean that our O needs to score more and that's something that needs to be worked on. As LTBF has mentioned, this is a work in progress. But if our O turns it up and can become a high scoring machine, the system benefits us even moreso.

This is the scheme they've chosen Op. You may not like it, but like it or not, it's there. Now why don't we focus on something more constructive like trying to pick the draft and FA players that may fit the scheme best...

[OpIv37]

This is the scheme they've chosen Op. You may not like it, but like it or not, it's there. Now why don't we focus on something more constructive like trying to pick the draft and FA players that may fit the scheme best...

because madness bumped 3 threads about the cover 2 based on the false premise that it's a good system and the right one for the Bills because it got the Colts and Bears to the SB, and there is no logical connection supporting his conclusion. He's simply ignoring the information that doesn't support his forgone conclusion that the Bills are going to the SB.

[Don't Panic]

Now, it is up to the Bills' front office and coaching staff to make sure that it works that well for the Buffalo Bills.

Very true. Great job LTBF... ditto what was said above about the sticky note.

Our needs seem plain to see... run-stuffing DT to platoon with KWilliams, speed rushing DE, pursuit LB (M or O depending on what they do with Crowell and Spikes) and an above average corner. We have enough at the other positions to provide quality depth.

Having a defense on par with Indy's, (or the Bears if you play our cards right) will go a long way towards getting us back into the playoffs.

[madness]

because madness bumped 3 threads about the cover 2 based on the false premise that it's a good system and the right one for the Bills because it got the Colts and Bears to the SB, and there is no logical connection supporting his conclusion. He's simply ignoring the information that doesn't support his forgone conclusion that the Bills are going to the SB.

No, I bumped because you labeled the system a bust from the start. In all your infinite football knowledge you ASSUME the system sucks and can't work in Buffalo. NOW, you indicate that the only reason it works else where is because they've built around the "faulty" system.

The system will work in Buffalo and we have the staff to build on to make it work, it just takes time. We can't just wave a magic wand and say "In the beginning, everything will work to perfection!"

Seriously, stop pulling **** out of your ass. I never said it would work just because the Colts and Bears are doing it and I never said the Bills are going to the SB.

[OpIv37]

No, I bumped because you labeled the system a bust from the start. In all your infinite football knowledge you ASSUME the system sucks and can't work in Buffalo. NOW, you indicate that the only reason it works else where is because they've built around the "faulty" system.

The system will work in Buffalo and we have the staff to build on to make it work, it just takes time. We can't just wave a magic wand and say "In the beginning, everything will work to perfection!"

Seriously, stop pulling **** out of your ass. I never said it would work just because the Colts and Bears are doing it and I never said the Bills are going to the SB.

You never said it would work because the Colts or Bears are doing it? Maybe not directly, but you bumped the threads with some version of "Two cover 2 teams are in the SB". If the Colts and Bears weren't in the SB, you never would have bumped all those cover 2 threads.

And did it maybe occur to you that right now, 30 of the 32 NFL teams have nothing better to do than study the Colts and the Bears in the SB and find the flaws in their defenses? Next year, everyone will be working on ways to pick the cover 2 apart, and it will be exposed, just like the 46, the Run n' Shoot, the West Coast offense....

And you still haven't addressed the fact that we're a LONG way from the Colts and Bears in terms of personnel. How much time do you want it to take? Players get old and retire, players get hurt, players leave via FA- each season that it takes to get it right gets us that much closer to another rebuilding cycle. This isn't the late 80's- teams don't have the luxury of taking 3-4 seasons to get it right because by that time, the core is gone.

[DraftBoy]

that's another thing that bothers me- they went cheap on the DL last year despite the fact that DT's are an integral part of the defensive system they were trying to run. They also went with a S early in the draft despite the fact that the system relies on pressure by the front four to make the safety's job easier. Seems counterintuitive and it showed on the field.


That is incorrect the DL is actually the last peice you need in place to make this system work. The Safeties are the most important part then the linebackers. Then you can address the DL. Im all for improving our LDE and picking up a depth DT. But I want to see what McCargo can bring to the table, and what another year of development does for Kyle Williams.

[EDS]

I don't know how many times I have already addressed this, but let me try again:

The Tampa 2 is as different from a conventional 4-3 or the Titans 46 that G.Williams brought to the Bills as a 3-4 defense is. And, just like you need to have the right personnel to make a 3-4 work, you need to have the right people to make this defense work. The Bills brought in a number of players who fit this defense last off-season, but could not bring in enough to make it work the way it should right away. They will have to rectify that situation this off-season and, from the comments that M.Levy made towards the end of the season and what some reports have stated, they appear to be focused on doing that.

The key to stopping the run in this defense is in the middle--which just happens to be where the Bills were the weakest last season. The 1-gap DT who plays on or just off the shoulder of the center must either penetrate to stop the RB in the backfield or, if he can't penetrate, hold his ground against the double-team from the center and offensive guard. Tim Anderson did neither well and ultimately was benched--I expect and all indications are that he will be gone or buried at the end of the bench next season. For a rookie, Kyle Williams did a decent job of penetrating--logging a number of tackles or assists for little or no gain or a loss--but simply wasn't strong enough to hold up against double-teams. The team reportedly has asked Williams to come in bigger next season and that will help, but the Bills need another DT to play this position--whether that will be a beefed up McCargo or someone that they bring in this off-season, through the draft or free agency, remains to be seen. No question that this is a position of need.

The Bills also need better play out of the MLB spot. As has been pointed out in other posts, the LBs in this defense have to run to the ball, shedding or avoiding blockers on the way. Neither Fletcher-Baker nor Spikes did this well last season: Spikes because of his injuries, Fletcher-Baker because he simply couldn't. The MLB is a primary run-stopper in this defense: just look at the tackle numbers put up by Urlacher, Gary Brackett and Shelton Quarles You need to have a MLB who fits the requirements of this defense in order to stop the run and not every MLB has those qualities: while everyone is focused on how Bob Sanders' return has helped the Colts' D, they have missed how much having Brackett in the middle instead of Morris has helped the run D as well. Unfortunately, after having been effective in this defense when he was younger, before he came to Buffalo, Fletcher-Baker didn't get the job done last season. There's a reason that the Bills are reported to have been unhappy with F-B last season and looking to replace him this off-season, even though F-B offers better leadership for the team's young players than Spikes does. Getting a MLB who fits the system (I don't know if Crowell does, although there are some reports that the Bills are considering moving him to MLB and he did play MLB in college--they would know better than I) will help improve the run D as much as having a pair of 1-gap DTs who can penetrate and/or hold up against the double-team next year.

Those were the biggest weaknesses in the Bills run defense this past season, but not the only ones. None of the Bills LBs or safeties had a lot of experience playing in the system on the NFL level and it showed.

At linebacker, Crowell appeared to make the best adjustment and was looking like the kind of play-maker that this defense requires at the WLB position (L.Briggs, C.June, D.Brooks). Ellison did well for a rookie and always seemed to end up around the ball (a requirement from a LB in this defense which relies on gang-tackling), but also appeared to be lost and out of position at times--which is something that he should be able to correct with experience. Spikes, hampered by injuries, missed all of training camp and was a shadow of himself until the last game of the season. If the Bills do not replace him, Spikes is going to be crucial to any improvement that the Bills make in their run defense next season: a fully healthy Spikes is a play-maker who can shed blockers, run to the ball, bring down ball-carriers when the MLB and DTs are neutralized and create turnovers, all things that he was incapable of doing this past season that this defense requires from the LBs.

As for the safeties, Whitner and Simpson both had terrific rookie seasons, but their inexperience hurt the run defense. The Tampa 2 requires a lot of the safeties: they not only have to be able to cover the deep outside routes in the passing game, but they also play a critical role in the run defense, especially the strong safety: just look at the difference in the Indy and Chicago run defenses with and without Bob Sanders and Mike Brown (yes, the Bears miss T.Harris a lot, but they also miss Brown a lot as well). Donte Whitner was drafted to be the Bills' Bob Sanders (those who say that Whitner is too small at 5'10" 210 to be a difference maker at safety ignore the fact that Sanders is 5'8" 206 and is a huge difference maker for their defense) and he certainly has the potential to be. However, as anyone who watched the Bills this season knows, Whitner took the wrong angle to the RB on many occasions this past season: instead of stopping the runner for a short gain at best, the RB got by him for a big gain. The same happened to Simpson, although his responsibilities against the run are less crucial. Both Whitner and Simpson should get better with experience: it took Bob Sanders a season before he started to become the force that has made him the glue that makes the Indy defense effective. Better run support from their safeties will also help the Bills improve their run defense next season--one need only look at the Indy-New England game on Sunday to realize how a couple of good tackles in the running game by the strong safety can help a defense.

As for Larry Tripplett: while Tripplett did not set the world on fire by any means at the 3-gap DT spot, he wasn't as responsible for the Bills' bad run D as some seem to think. Yes, he could have done a better job of penetrating and making tackles in the backfield. But, with the Bills' weakness at the 1-gap DT spot, teams did not have to run at Tripplett: with the 3-gap DT lined up outside of the OG's outside shoulder and the Bills not having a 1-gap DT who could consistently hold his ground, they could run at the 1-gap DT, where the 3-gap DT would have difficulty getting to the RB or the hole in time, all they wanted. The 3-gap DT will always have a hard time making plays if the 1-gap DT and MLB can't do what they are supposed to do in this defense and, as a result, Tripplett didn't make many plays in the running game. If the Bills get better at the 1-gap and MLB spots, Tripplett should begin to show up more--then, if he doesn't, he is open to justifiable criticism.

Unlike most other defenses, the Tampa 2 is a very simple defense. But, it is a defensive system--the key word here being "system"--that requires that every player do what he is supposed to do and be where he is supposed to be in order for it to be effective. If a player plays his technique wrong, if he is out of position or gets beat, there is going to be a hole in the defense that the opposition can exploit. That is why speed and relentless pursuit are required: because if a hole opens up and the opponent goes through it, everyone has to run to the ball to make the stop. The Bills did not have players at every position last season who could do that they were supposed to do and at times lacked the discipline to do those things. In some instances, where they had the right players, they lacked the experience to get to where they were supposed to be for the system to be effective. They're not missing that many players, but they need to make sure that they get the players that they need this off-season in order to have the right players at every position next year. That is the front office's job. If they do that, they should get better at stopping the run next season: it usually takes a couple of years for a team to improve after a new defensive system is installed and past history with Indy and Chicago show that they did get better the next season.

Finally, you also have to understand and take into consideration that this is a defense that is designed to limit scoring, not necessarily yardage. I know that this will be hard for some people to understand. But, the idea behind the Tampa 2 is to prevent the opposition from getting the big play and to force the opponent to use many plays to move the ball down the field: the more plays the opponents run, the more likely they are to commit a drive stalling penalty or turn the ball over or fall short of the goal line and have to settle for 3 points instead of 7. Yardage is not as important as points. Let me repeat that for those who missed it or cannot comprehend: the philosophy behind this defense is that yardage yielded is not as important as points given up.... The basic approach is to attack and pressure the opposition while preventing the big play until they make a mistake or your defenders are able to make a big play, especially a turnover, even if you give up a few yards in the process. Teams that are proficient at playing this defense get enough big stops (sacks, tackles for losses) and turnovers and limit the gains that they give up (a 3-5 yard run instead of an 8-15 yard run), that they are able to keep the total yardage that they give up to a minimum. But, no matter how much yardage they give up, the key is points.

The Bills did a reasonable job of generating sacks this past season, but did not get anywhere near enough big stops or turnovers. Because of their lack of proper personnel at every position and inexperience, they let their opponents have too many 8-10 yard gains and too many big runs. They will have to do a better job in all of those areas next season if they want to legitimately contend for a playoff berth with the schedule that they have. But, let me conclude by pointing out just two things to those of you who are so concerned by the fact that the Bills finished 28th in rushing defense this past season---1.) in spite of that, the Bills finished 10th in points allowed; 2.) with both Super Bowl teams playing a Tampa 2 system, there will be three different teams in recent years that have won the Super Bowl playing this defensive system: St.Louis, Tampa Bay and this year's winner. Without having all the right players to play the system well, the Bills shaved more than 5 points off of their points yielded per game this season and this is a system that can and has gotten teams to Super Bowl victories. Now, it is up to the Bills' front office and coaching staff to make sure that it works that well for the Buffalo Bills.

So in other words, we need either (1) Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher or (2) Peyton Manning for this system to work?

Seriously, the teams that have been successful with this system have had either otherworldly defenses (Tampa and da Bears) or one of the greatest offensive attacks of all time (St. Louis when they won the "bowl" or Indy with Peyton). The Bills have neither and are several meaningful pieces away from either.

How is this supposed to instill confidence?

[OpIv37]

That is incorrect the DL is actually the last peice you need in place to make this system work. The Safeties are the most important part then the linebackers. Then you can address the DL. Im all for improving our LDE and picking up a depth DT. But I want to see what McCargo can bring to the table, and what another year of development does for Kyle Williams.

so, you're saying that the part of the D responsible for the pass rush is the LEAST important? That makes no sense. Any NFL QB can pick a team apart if they're given enough time, and this D is supposedly designed to stop the pass.

[DraftBoy]

so, you're saying that the part of the D responsible for the pass rush is the LEAST important? That makes no sense. Any NFL QB can pick a team apart if they're given enough time, and this D is supposedly designed to stop the pass.

Its designed to stop the pass through coverage. The pressure is the last thing you want in place bc if your safeties suck then your going to get burned deep. If your LB's suck your going to get torched in the middle. The pressure will come but its the last thing you implement. This D is known for forcing coverage sacks. Any DE can eventually beat an OT if given enough time also. All that aside honestly you can implement any section first but to go from front to back makes no sense. Always get your safety net set first. Then work forwards.

[EDS]

Its designed to stop the pass through coverage. The pressure is the last thing you want in place bc if your safeties suck then your going to get burned deep. If your LB's suck your going to get torched in the middle. The pressure will come but its the last thing you implement. This D is known for forcing coverage sacks. Any DE can eventually beat an OT if given enough time also. All that aside honestly you can implement any section first but to go from front to back makes no sense. Always get your safety net set first. Then work forwards.

Dude, no one is questioning the defenses ability to stop the pass. The problem is stoping the run. Our defense cannot do that. Since we do not have a good enough offense to run up the score (thus forcing opponents to pass) opponents can continue to run the Bills defense ragged.

So in otherwords, there is no need for this "safety net" because teams will continue to run against the Bills - so no passing, thus no safety net needed. Football is still won in the trenches.

[madness]

Op, let me ask you this. Do you think this defense would have been any better with a real starter in Anderson's place, a healthy progressing McCargo, an upgrade at MLB, and a fully healed Spikes?

[madness]

Dude, no one is questioning the defenses ability to stop the pass. The problem is stoping the run. Our defense cannot do that. Since we do not have a good enough offense to run up the score (thus forcing opponents to pass) opponents can continue to run the Bills defense ragged.

So in otherwords, there is no need for this "safety net" because teams will continue to run against the Bills - so no passing, thus no safety net needed. Football is still won in the trenches.

Which is pretty frightning considering the numbers. It almost looked like teams were more concerned with remaining balanced bytesting out our secondary with the two rookies back there instead of concentrating on the run.

There are definitely some encouraging signs with the 19.4 points/game and 7th in passing yards allowed for a young raw defense. The staff is very aware of the problem and will focus on the run defense in the offseason.



Still, Buffalo wound up a very encouraging 10th in the league in points allowed at 19.4 per game, and rookie safeties Donte Whitner and Ko Simpson led a pass defense that ranked seventh in yards allowed. That's a legitimate statistic because despite Buffalo's porous run defense, the Bills faced more passes than runs (513 vs. 476).
"(Shoring up the run defense) will be a priority for us, definitely, but part of it will be scheme, guys learning the scheme, hitting their fits, making the plays," Jauron said. "You have to be able to contain the run in our business. You can't let people freely run the ball and dominate you in that area. That being said, the bottom line will always be points scored and points allowed. Keep them out of your end zone, regardless of what happens, and you have a chance."

[OpIv37]

Op, let me ask you this. Do you think this defense would have been any better with a real starter in Anderson's place, a healthy progressing McCargo, an upgrade at MLB, and a fully healed Spikes?

I don't know. McCargo, even if he progresses, is unlikely to be a Tommy Harris. And Spikes would have to be 100% and the MLB would have to be one hell of an MLB. And even if we had all that, the D would still be pretty much useless in short yardage situations because they happen too quickly for the speed to overcome the lack of size. I'm just not thrilled with any D that doesn't prioritize stopping the run.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

good explanation, but I really have to take issue with this part. Giving the offense more plays is the LAST thing you want to do- it gives them more chances to get it right and puts pressure on the D late in games when they're tired. It's difficult to score on offense and defenses tend to wear down faster than offenses, so the goal should always be for the D to get off the field as quickly as possible.

Once again, the Bears have the personnel to get off the field and the Colts have the personnel for sustained drives on offense- that's why the D's work for them. The Bills, on the other hand, don't do either of those things particularly well....

Thank you mysticsoto for answering the first part of this. You said just about everything that I would have...but used a lot fewer words to get the point across. :lol:

OpIv, the mistake that you are making is that you are looking at last year's product and thinking that it was a finished product--it was not and I believe that M.Levy and D.Jauron knew that all along. What they saw when they arrived was an aging defense that was slowing down, whose players were at odds with and no longer listening to their coaches, and they decided to scrap the system, clean out the lockerroom, and start rebuilding the team from the ground up with an entirely new system (which would also give them a reason to jettison some of the older vets) that had been successful elsewhere.

Anytime you bring in a new system, it generally takes a year for the players to learn the system and play it properly, but, when you do what Levy/Jauron decided to do (which I believe they had to do after the debacle in 2005), that's more than a one year process: you simply cannot get rid of all of the players that you have and replace them with players, rookies and free agents, who fit a radically different system in one off-season. While you can reasonably figure that you will get some kind of contribution out of your top 3-4 draft picks and maybe one or two others in minor roles, you can't figure that you are going to get four rookies capable of starting their first year out of any draft (that doesn't happen very often and usually happens only on very bad teams). And, with limited resources and restrictions in free agency (remember, the Bills tried to sign Idonjie from the Bears, but they had to settle for re-signing Denney when the Bears kept him), there's no way that any team, let alone the Bills, could sign enough free agents to fill out their roster. Besides which, while there were players on the Bills roster who appeared to be able to fit into the new system, the new coaches could not know right off the bat with certainty which ones actually would be able to grasp it and play well and which ones wouldn't.

So, I would argue that Levy and Jauron knew, going in, that it would take more than one year and one off-season for them to be able to turnover the roster in such a way that they would be able to properly implement this defensive system--if I could figure that out, they, with a similar education, and a lot more inside knowledge of the game, certaintly could as well. (Of course, they still had to play the season--they couldn't just cancel it because their defense wasn't fully rebuilt yet--and they could not say this in the press, because they had to get the players they had to play and people to come to watch them in order to pay the bills!)

You're right, though, OP, the Bills do not have the personnel that the Bears or Colts, or Rams or Buccaneers have or, in the latter two instances, had. They are still in the process of acquiring that personnel...which is why I don't disagree with you about the need for them to add players at certain positions. But, you must also understand that they needed to go through this season with the players that they had on hand in order to be in a better position to evaluate what their needs going forward would be.

That was not necessarily evident at this time last year. For example, with just Tim Anderson on the roster at DT, they knew that they needed DTs, but, since Anderson had been a run-stuffing force in college playing in this system, they figured that they would need to acquire 3 DTs--which was a tough enough assignment to fulfill given the difficulty in finding DTs who fit the requirements of this system--as it turned out, they needed 4 DTs because Anderson can't do what he did in college on the NFL level. Similarly, because Fletcher-Baker had been successful with the Rams in this system, they had to figure that he could do it again, but, whether because of age or having played in the Titans 46 too long, he wasn't able to make the plays necessary the way he used to. While I'm sure that they knew that Takeo Spikes would not be 100%, they had to see if he or one of the young LBs on the roster could be the Bills' Derrick Brooks.

So, again, don't judge the system based on what you saw from the Bills last season. The Bills are a work in progress at this point, not a finished product. Because this defense is very much a system, like a machine it will not function as it should without all of the proper parts in place. While the Bills have some of the parts in place, right now they are like an auto without a transmission or exhaust system: the engine runs fine, but its only good at one speed and the fumes stink like hell....


that's another thing that bothers me- they went cheap on the DL last year despite the fact that DT's are an integral part of the defensive system they were trying to run. They also went with a S early in the draft despite the fact that the system relies on pressure by the front four to make the safety's job easier. Seems counterintuitive and it showed on the field.

Every position in this defense is important and you have to have players who fit the system in each position.

The toughest positions to fill are the DTs--because they are in effect 2 separate positions and have different specific requirements that are different from what you get from a 2-gap DT or a 3-4 NT/DT--MLB and SS.

As I mentioned above, the Bills thought that they had a 1-gap DT in Anderson, who had been successful in that position in college, and brought in 3 DTs in the off-season to fill the other slots. At the time, everyone rated Tripplett as the best 3-gap DT available in free agency and his signing was considered a major coup for the Bills. (They were not going to get Ryan Pickett: the NY Giants openly stated that they were going to out-bid everyone for him, but, even though they did, he turned down more money from them to sign with GB for his own reasons.) They drafted McCargo, the # 2 3-gap DT in the draft, who, despite being injured, had a better season in five games than Bunkley did--the Bills did not know that he was going to be injured (you expect them to be mind-readers?). And, they got Kyle Williams, who had as good a season as any rookie 1-gap DT, despite his short-comings. You can argue that they should have drafted Ngata instead of Whitner, but, as I pointed out in my analysis of their draft, it was a package deal: SS and DT, if they went with a DT first, they would have had to settle for Bullocks as their SS in Round 2, Whitner had a much better rookie season than Bullocks and they felt that Ngata might not be as good a fit in their defense as McCargo ultimately would be. That's a judgement call that time will judge.

Why the SS? Because, again, the requirements of the system demand a SS who is fast enough to get to the deep outside in pass coverage and yet, still provide run support at the line of scrimmage. That's not easy to do and it's not easy to find guys who have what it takes to do that well. It's easy to find strong safeties who can hit like a ton of bricks in run support like Roy Williams of Dallas, but how's he in pass coverage (even though he is an experienced vet)?

If you look at the good Tampa 2 defenses, they all have hard-hitting, play-making strong safeties who are the key to making the defense go. Tampa Bay had John Lynch and still hasn't been able to replace him. The Bears have Mike Brown and aren't as good against the run without him. And, as everyone says, Bob Sanders is the key to the Colts defense--they have been a totally different run defense since he and MLB Gary Brackett returned for the playoffs.

You say that the Bills don't have the personnel that the Bears or these other teams have and you are right at this point in time. But, Donte Whitner was acquired to be the Bills' John Lynch/Mike Brown/Bob Sanders. That's why they wanted him so badly that they targeted him in the draft--they expect him to be a key piece in the puzzle.

The Bills need to keep adding pieces to that puzzle. But, just because the Bills don't have the kind of personnel that those other Tampa 2 teams had at their height, that does not mean that they won't end up with that kind of personnel in the near future. You are expecting rookies to look like All-Pros at their best and when you find them wanting, decide that they are never going to amount to anything. This is a very young Bills team--that is going to get younger still--that is being put together to make a sustained run, not just a one-year appearance in the playoffs. Just remember that it took awhile for all of the pieces of those Super Bowl teams to be assembled: a lot of the players who were on the team in 1988 had been there for a couple of years already before that team became a juggernaut.


So in other words, we need either (1) Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher or (2) Peyton Manning for this system to work?

Seriously, the teams that have been successful with this system have had either otherworldly defenses (Tampa and da Bears) or one of the greatest offensive attacks of all time (St. Louis when they won the "bowl" or Indy with Peyton). The Bills have neither and are several meaningful pieces away from either.

How is this supposed to instill confidence?

You don't need Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher, necessarily, but, like ANY successful defense, this defense does require play-makers to be successful (the Pats defense has had play-makers, the 3-4 requires play-makers, ALL defenses require play-makers to be good). Tampa Bay didn't have Tommie Harris at DT--they had Booger McFarland, who is now with the Colts (the Bills did try to trade for McFarland, but were rebuffed at the time)--or Brian Urlacher at MLB--they had Shelton Quarles at MLB, but they did have Derrick Brooks at WLB and John Lynch at SS. Right now, the Bills don't have their Booger McFarland/Tommie Harris or their Brian Urlacher, but they do have Donte Whitner who they expect to become their John Lynch/Mike Brown/Nob Sanders. I think that they are hoping that Takeo Spikes will return to his pre-injury form, which was every bit as good as Derrick Brooks, to give them another play-making LB to go with Angelo Crowell (think Lance Briggs, Shelton Quarles, Cato June).

Yes, the Bills still need a big-time 1-gap DT. Whether they think that is going ot be John McCargo or they are going to have to target someone in free agency, Marv Levy, himself, has stated that they need to improve this position. And, I expect that they will address it and MLB this off-season.

Why do you think that it is impossible for the Bills to have a big-time defense? Because they don't have the personnel that the Bucs, in their prime, had or that the Bears have right now? The Bills that went to the Super Bowl didn't have a big-time defense until after Conlan and Bennett arrived. This defense is still a work in progress.

As for the Colts, Bill Polian--the same Bill Polian that some here still consider a genius--has been trying to build the Colts defense using this system for the last several years. He's come close to getting all of the pieces of the puzzle in place for the Colts to have a great defense, but injuries (that damned dome carpet in Indy has claimed more good players!) have kept them from putting all of the pieces together at the same time: Rob Morris was his MLB, but got hurt and never got his speed back; Mike Doss has been hurt so much he's virtually out of the game; Corey Simon came over from Philly and got hurt, so they had to trade for McFarland, who has been banged up; Freeney and Mathis have been hurt at times; they've lost CBs; Gary Brackett took over from Morris and then was hurt much of this year; when Bob Sanders is healthy and plays, their defense plays well, but he has been constantly injured, almost as much as Doss. The Colts defense would be a lot better than it has been recently if they had all of their players, but, with the Colts having so much money tied up in their offense, it has been difficult for Polian to find replacements for all of the players that they have lost to injuries, let alone fill the holes in their defense that have needed to be improved. Does that mean Polian is stupid or not a great GM? No. Does it mean that the defensive system that worked for Dungy in Tampa Bay and for his protegee, Lovie Smith with the Rams and Bears, doesn't work? No. What it means is that you have to have personnel that fits the system and some play-makers in that group for it to work well--but that applies to just about any defensive system.

Like 'em or hate 'em, no one can say that Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs can't coach or don't coach defenses that work: both have the track record to prove that they can. But, neither has been successful in their most recent coaching stint because they didn't have the right personnel to fit the system that they were using. Was it the fault of the systems? No. Were they using the Tampa 2? No. So, why have these two Hall of Fame Head Coaches failed? Because, no matter what system you use--on defense or on offense--you have to have players who fit the system, who buy into the system and are willing to be coached by the men teaching them the system, and, within that group of players, you have to have some play-makers.

That's what Marv Levy and Dick Jauron are trying to put together and are in the process of trying to assemble. Will they succeed? We'll see. But, they are still in the process of doing that and, just as you can't see exactly what a house is going to look like while it is still being constructed, at this stage it is still not realistic to think that we can see what the finished product will be while they are still assembling it (something any father who had to deal with "Some Assembly Required" this past Christmas can attest to!).

And, don't think that just because you can't recognize a Tommie Harris, Brian Urlacher, etc. on the Bills roster right now that some of the pieces of a good team and a good defense are not already in place. How many Bills fans thought that Angelo Crowell or Jason Peters or, yes, JP Losman would amount to anything after their rookie seasons? Some may have, but an awful lot didn't.

Finally, as bad as the Bills were against the run last year and as many pieces as were missing from the finished product on defense and as far as they still have to go to be a dominant defense again, don't forget that the Bills finished 10th in the NFL in points allowed last season. That's right, 10th. As they add more pieces to the puzzle, they should only get better. As bad as they played at times, the Bills scored 300 points and yielded 311. Reverse those numbers--a difference of just 22 points over the course of the season--and the Bills win at least one and as many as 5 more games. How much better do the defense and offense have to get to achieve that?.....

[EDS]

You don't need Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher, necessarily, but, like ANY successful defense, this defense does require play-makers to be successful (the Pats defense has had play-makers, the 3-4 requires play-makers, ALL defenses require play-makers to be good). Tampa Bay didn't have Tommie Harris at DT--they had Booger McFarland, who is now with the Colts (the Bills did try to trade for McFarland, but were rebuffed at the time)--or Brian Urlacher at MLB--they had Shelton Quarles at MLB, but they did have Derrick Brooks at WLB and John Lynch at SS. Right now, the Bills don't have their Booger McFarland/Tommie Harris or their Brian Urlacher, but they do have Donte Whitner who they expect to become their John Lynch/Mike Brown/Nob Sanders. I think that they are hoping that Takeo Spikes will return to his pre-injury form, which was every bit as good as Derrick Brooks, to give them another play-making LB to go with Angelo Crowell (think Lance Briggs, Shelton Quarles, Cato June).

Yes, the Bills still need a big-time 1-gap DT. Whether they think that is going ot be John McCargo or they are going to have to target someone in free agency, Marv Levy, himself, has stated that they need to improve this position. And, I expect that they will address it and MLB this off-season.

Why do you think that it is impossible for the Bills to have a big-time defense? Because they don't have the personnel that the Bucs, in their prime, had or that the Bears have right now? The Bills that went to the Super Bowl didn't have a big-time defense until after Conlan and Bennett arrived. This defense is still a work in progress.

.....

Tampa Bay had WARREN SAPP!!!! Harris, is a new Warren Sapp. Ergo, the two most successful defenses using this system had one of the best defensive tackles of their generation.

And the Colts downfall all these years has been their putrid defense - a defense that has kept them out of the super bowl for years despite having Payton Manning and one of the greatest offenses of all time.

All I am saying is that the interior of the defensive line is uber important in building a quality defense. All of the recent super bowl winners (with the possible exception of the Rams) had pro bowl caliber defensive lineman (Pitt = Hampton; NE = Seymour, Washington, etc.; Tampa = Warren Sapp; Baltimore = Adams and Siragusa). The Bills do not have anyone like that and they need to make finding one priority number one.

And again, the Bills offense is nothing like Indy or St. Louis. Nothing. Both those teams feature GREAT offenses with MVP caliber quarterbacks, whereas the Bills are still striving to be average.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Tampa Bay had WARREN SAPP!!!! Harris, is a new Warren Sapp. Ergo, the two most successful defenses using this system had one of the best defensive tackles of their generation.

And the Colts downfall all these years has been their putrid defense - a defense that has kept them out of the super bowl for years despite having Payton Manning and one of the greatest offenses of all time.

All I am saying is that the interior of the defensive line is uber important in building a quality defense. All of the recent super bowl winners (with the possible exception of the Rams) had pro bowl caliber defensive lineman (Pitt = Hampton; NE = Seymour, Washington, etc.; Tampa = Warren Sapp; Baltimore = Adams and Siragusa). The Bills do not have anyone like that and they need to make finding one priority number one.

And again, the Bills offense is nothing like Indy or St. Louis. Nothing. Both those teams feature GREAT offenses with MVP caliber quarterbacks, whereas the Bills are still striving to be average.

On this point I won't disagree with you EDS.

I think the Bills were and still are expecting a lot from John McCargo, but I also do not think that they are done adding people in the middle.

I was really hoping that Glenn Dorsey would enter this draft because I see him as potentially being that kind of player and felt he would be a great fit for the Bills. Unfortunately, he decided to return to school.

Even though he is still very young and showed up at the Senior Bowl 30 pounds lighter than he was listed in college, Amobi Okoye may also be that kind of player. According to nfldraftcountdown.com, the Bills were seen talking with him (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/seniorbowl/reports/obs/124.html) and he has been making a good impression in the practices, despite being lighter than expected:

"Along the defensive line the story for me continues to be Amobi Okoye of Louisville, who has been making a lot of plays in practice but concerns me with his size. His legs are thing and he just does not look very big out there so in my mind he appears to be a lot closer to a defensive end than he is to a tackle physically. I had a chance to talk with Amobi after practice and he said his weight's a little low right now but that his ideal target is 295 lbs., which he played at this year and said it was the best he ever felt. Okoye, the youngest Senior Bowler ever, also dinged his neck a little bit when he "got cheap shotted" by Dan Mozes but he said he's fine and will get him back. Okoye also said teams have spoken to him about the possibility of bulking up but in my mind there's now very little doubt that he's not a nose tackle and would be best as a 3-technique in the NFL."
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/seniorbowl/reports/north123.html

"Inside at tackle, despite my reservations about his size, Amobi Okoye of Louisville continues to make big plays and he just flies by blockers (Beekman & Yanda) into the backfield at times. Okoye also seems to be very coachable and was once again seen vocally encouraging his teammates as they went through drills, showing leadership beyond his years."
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/seniorbowl/reports/north124.html

It remains to be seen--and the Senior Bowl should give some indication--whether Okoye will be strong enough to play the 1-gap DT position or will be better at the 3-gap spot. If the Bills are unable to add a 1-gap DT in free agency (and there are some possibilities out there) or feel that Okoye is too good to pass up, they could move McCargo over to the 1-gap spot where he played some in college.

Regardless of how the Bills decide to address the problem, though, it is not the system, but the lack of players good enough to execute the system that is at fault. But, that is the case with any system or defensive scheme: Bill Parcells ran the same 3-4 defense with Dallas as he did with the NY Giants, but he didn't have Harry Carson or Lawrence Taylor playing for him in Dallas. But, it wasn't the coaching or the system, it was the players.

Before you judge the system that the Bills are running, give them a chance to get the players needed to play the system. They got some last offseason, but they don't have all of the ones they need. Also, just because a player, especially a DT, didn't set the world on fire last season, don't give up on him. I posted a list of stats registered by DTs in their first years that showed that some of the best DTs in the NFL did virtually nothing in their rookie seasons. Some rode the bench, others, like McCargo, were injured. DTs, like offensive linemen, often take time to develop--especially the guys who play on the nose of the center. So, give these guys a little time: if after a couple of seasons, like Anderson, they show nothing, fine. But, let's see what we've got first.

Finally, when Marv Levy says, as he did in an interview towards the end of the season, that the run defense was a problem and that fixing that is a priority, I believe him. Why? Because, while he hasn't always spelled things out in precise detail, since taking over as the Bills GM, Marv has done what he said he would do and said he would do one thing and then gone and done the complete opposite. If you read his book and listen closely to what he says, he has been remarkably consistent in doing things that he says he believes in and has said that he would do. So, if he says that fixing the run defense is a priority for him this season, I have every reason to believe that he is going to try his best to do precisely that. This is not Tom Donahoe that we are talking about here. Now, I don't know if he will succeed, but I think that he is going to try--and that's all I can really ask for.

There is no reason to believe that the Bills cannot acquire good or even great players who will play well or be great in a Bills uniform. They've had such players in the past: Marv Levy didn't get the Bills into four Super Bowls with "chopped liver" for players. And, all of those great players were not on the Bills roster when he arrived. This is a guy who HIRED Bill Polian for his first full-time job in pro football and gave Bill Walsh his first college coaching job. He's not perfect and not every decision or choice that he makes is going to work out, but he knows the game and he has a decent track record. But, he's not a miracle worker. Give him a chance to do his job and acquire some more players. Only two teams got more man-games from their rookies this season and neither one did as well as the Bills facing lesser competition--which says something about the players that he acquired. Now, let's see if he can get the Bills some more players and if some of them become the kind of stars that the Bills need them to become in order to be successful. I know it has been a long time since the Bills made the playoffs, but we are still just entering Levy's second off-season running the team. The Bills were a shambles at the end of the 2005 season--a disaster, a mess. Cleaning out the Augian Stables that their front office, coaching staff and lockerroom had become and acquiring new players with a new attitude and ability was never going to be a one--or in my opinion even a two--year process. The clean-up and turn around has begun, but it is still very much a work in progress. And, yes, the defensive line and run defense are huge problems that need to be addressed...but Marv has said that he recognizes this and that it will be a priority for him. What more do you want from him right now? Let's see what he does and how it works out.

[EDS]

On this point I won't disagree with you EDS.

Before you judge the system that the Bills are running, give them a chance to get the players needed to play the system. They got some last offseason, but they don't have all of the ones they need. Also, just because a player, especially a DT, didn't set the world on fire last season, don't give up on him. I posted a list of stats registered by DTs in their first years that showed that some of the best DTs in the NFL did virtually nothing in their rookie seasons. Some rode the bench, others, like McCargo, were injured. DTs, like offensive linemen, often take time to develop--especially the guys who play on the nose of the center. So, give these guys a little time: if after a couple of seasons, like Anderson, they show nothing, fine. But, let's see what we've got first.

Finally, when Marv Levy says, as he did in an interview towards the end of the season, that the run defense was a problem and that fixing that is a priority, I believe him. Why? Because, while he hasn't always spelled things out in precise detail, since taking over as the Bills GM, Marv has done what he said he would do and said he would do one thing and then gone and done the complete opposite. If you read his book and listen closely to what he says, he has been remarkably consistent in doing things that he says he believes in and has said that he would do. So, if he says that fixing the run defense is a priority for him this season, I have every reason to believe that he is going to try his best to do precisely that. This is not Tom Donahoe that we are talking about here. Now, I don't know if he will succeed, but I think that he is going to try--and that's all I can really ask for.

There is no reason to believe that the Bills cannot acquire good or even great players who will play well or be great in a Bills uniform. They've had such players in the past: Marv Levy didn't get the Bills into four Super Bowls with "chopped liver" for players. And, all of those great players were not on the Bills roster when he arrived. This is a guy who HIRED Bill Polian for his first full-time job in pro football and gave Bill Walsh his first college coaching job. He's not perfect and not every decision or choice that he makes is going to work out, but he knows the game and he has a decent track record. But, he's not a miracle worker. Give him a chance to do his job and acquire some more players. Only two teams got more man-games from their rookies this season and neither one did as well as the Bills facing lesser competition--which says something about the players that he acquired. Now, let's see if he can get the Bills some more players and if some of them become the kind of stars that the Bills need them to become in order to be successful. I know it has been a long time since the Bills made the playoffs, but we are still just entering Levy's second off-season running the team. The Bills were a shambles at the end of the 2005 season--a disaster, a mess. Cleaning out the Augian Stables that their front office, coaching staff and lockerroom had become and acquiring new players with a new attitude and ability was never going to be a one--or in my opinion even a two--year process. The clean-up and turn around has begun, but it is still very much a work in progress. And, yes, the defensive line and run defense are huge problems that need to be addressed...but Marv has said that he recognizes this and that it will be a priority for him. What more do you want from him right now? Let's see what he does and how it works out.

I totally agree that the system can work with the right players. The point I was making was that filling that that defensive tackle position with a very good player is absolutely essential for the success of this defense - particularly against the run. Numerous poster, and I don't think you are one of them, believe that it is not that critical a need. The fact of the matter is, however, that it is the most important piece the Bills need to add if they hope to do any damage in the post-season over the next few years.