Spikes and Adams.. i got questions

[Tatonka]

it seems all the talk lately has been about sam adams and takeo spikes... sure would be nice to have them both. but i got some questions... i dont want to get all worked up over something that is actually totally impossible.

ok.. first... Clump and EB...

is there anyway this could happen? assuming we cut robinson to free up another million, and the price situation doesnt change?.. i dont really know what either of these guys will be looking for.. i guess you could go by what their peers have signed to.. to brookings and gardner just signed in denver.. but you guys know better than me.. with our cap situation, is it even a reality? i see contracts like barbers 30 million dollar deal, but in reality, it is only a 3 year 10 mill deal or something close to that.. then he will get cut or restructure...

ok.. second... Ingtar

are these guys our best options? are their other guys you feel, purely based on talent/production/strengths (not considering the $$).. are these guys enough.. cuz obviously we wont be adding many more people if we got both.. are they enough to put our defense over the hump? are there other options we should be considering that are very very close in skills..

everyone can throw in their thoughts.. i was just interested in what our "pros" have to say.:guitar:

[Brian H]

Any questions for me?? lol

[Tatonka]

question for brian H.. how do you like your sig? :lol:

[Ingtar33]

ok... good question

Spikes is a fabulous WLB... he's good in coverage, good in pass rushing... but more importantly is an absolute beast in run stopping... he would easily be the best pure tackler on the team, and is (outside of Claiborne) the hardest hitter available. He is also a motivational leader, and was considered the heart and soul of the Bengals D for a reason (you can never have enough guys of this quality on your team). He is head and shoulders superior to anyone else on the market right now.

The question remains about is this a necessary pickup... the answer is no. The WLB role for this team is important, however the WLB in the 46 doesn't have to be a superstar like Spikes... it’s not as important as MLB, SS, or DL. While the pickup of Spikes would be great (primarily because playmakers are always needed), and would make our D instantly better, in the end it wouldn't have the same impact a good DT will.

The question then is... Is Adams the best DT we can get? No he probably is not... At the moment the best options for the Bills remain as Adams and McGlockton... however at June 1st some vet DTs should shake loose around the league, and (for example) if even one of them leaves Chicago that player would be better than both Adams and McGlockton.

The trick is this, what is your priority? If you want a mammoth DT to take what is in essence the NT position, then a vet like Adams, McGlockton, Traylor/Washington would make the most sense. If you want youth, potential, and a long term pickup you best option is an UT like Thornton. For the next season the Bills would be most helped by a giant NT... For the future we'd be most helped by someone like Thornton.

And, if you think that Adam's poor season last year was the result of missing training camp, and not age catching up, then the best solution, both short and long term, would be to sign Adams, as he would give us 4 to 5 good years…

Is the combo Spikes/Adams enough? No, we really need to address our shortcomings at FS before I start to believe we'll have a superbowl quality D.

[kgun12]

Tatonka I'm just guessing, but I think if we end up eating PP $5.01 there isn't anyway to get both, UNLESS Adams price is going to come down alot. Now that might happen cause his agent is also P. Williams so you never know, but I dought it.

Yes I do believe these 2 players would help us out considerably. If this Jones guy can return to his pre-injury self our front 4 will be awsome. This will make Fletcher, Posey, and Spikes the best LBer corp in the NFL, which will make our DB much better. That being said there is a lot of ifs. If Jones comes back, if Adams can get in better shape than last year.

I think from a purely more quality than star power option would be Peterson LB, Thorton DT, let PP go, sign Hollis, get Dyson WR, and add a CB.
Than your draft after the 23rd for PP which I would take another DL, rounds 2-7 could be used for best available palyer TD has on his board for every round. This would put our depth and/or Special teams in great shape.

[Tatonka]

so you just think our fs will not come around? last year was his first year at fs right? he was a stud in college.. i went to virginia tech with him and carpenter (and vick, ferguson, andre davis, engleburger, ox, ect).. anyway... i liked him alot in college.

i just though he would play better with another year of experience at the position, and a better pass rush in front of him.

[Tatonka]

i hear you kgun.. i am just throwing around lineups in my head..

it looks like thorton is signing in cincy anyways. and my thoughts are that peterson wants toooo much money.

[kgun12]

Ingtar33 what do you think of my post? Is what I said about quality of star power fesible? I would like to see it happen that way!

[Ingtar33]

The prob with Prioleau is this...
He bites on every play fake, he's slow to read pass; he has "stiff" hips, and moves like a SS. The result is he is rarely in position to make a play, and is often out of position/or a step too late to help the pass D. He's a converted SS and it shows.

[Ingtar33]

Star power? Do you mean that we'd be better off without quality but with quantity?

I'm not sure I see what you’re asking me... but I do think everything you posted had merits, and I don’t disagree with the need to increase our depth… you’re right, if Jones recovers, we pick up a DT, and Schobel continues to blossom, than our front 4 could make our DBs and any LB crew we put together look great.

[Brian H]

Originally posted by Tatonka
question for brian H.. how do you like your sig? :lol:

Great sig,man of my word and proud to show it off.You got the best of me this time,next time will be different my friend :)

[kgun12]

I guess what I meant was, I would rather go quality and not the biggest names just because they are big names. ie I think Peterson is almost as good an option as Spikes, Thorton is almost as good an option as Adams and in the long run a better option. Cause I think it puts us in a better position to resign Hollis, get a WR to play the #3. And than we can use the draft for depth.

I have seen a lot of posts since FA started that folks are disappointed that we haven't signed a "BIG NAME FA" and I don't think we need a Big name as much as good solid FA that wouldn't break the Bank Quality over over priced?

[Ingtar33]

ahh I see...

Well Thornton is potentially more of a DE than DT (at least his good numbers were posted on the outside)... he is also about the only DT talent that promises to go for something respectable... he looks like he's going to sign with the Bengals soon anyway.

Peterson, well he is the 2nd best WLB, but I don't think he'll be so much cheaper than Spikes as to make him a quality pickup... He is also not so good at the point of attack, which would be the football equivalent of him being sort of a square peg being fitted into a round hole with this defense… I think your best “value” would remain Spikes.

[kgun12]

Ingtar how about this FA pick up Stacy Mack from Jacksonville. Great short yardage and goal line. What is he asking, cause I would like to see a better option to back up Henry than Morris.

[kgun12]

Thanks I love Spikes and said yesterday that I would take him cause he is the best even though him is the most expensive option. Didn't want to sound like I was talking out of both sides of my mouth!

[Tatonka]

stacy mack? um.. no.. henry is our horse.. and i have him in fantasy football.. he is my keeper.. i dont need to get hosed like all the fred taylor owners did last year :D

[kgun12]

Tatonka forget about your FF league, I just don't like S. Morris as our back up S. Mack gives us a good short yardage guy and a reliable back-up for Henry. Thinks Bills first! lol

[Aero II]

Mack heard all the acolades about how he should be a starter. He filled in very well when ever he spelled Fred Taylor, even when Jax wasn't 15 feet away from the goal line. He wants to be a starter, not to just be stuck in a game to run the same plays that the Fridge did.

[ct bills fan]

Ingstar33 - great analysis, but, I have one thing to consider about Thorton. His best two years were played under Williams in Tennessee - if he was a "special" player, wouldn't Williams have wanted him. TD and GW must know something about him that we don't??

[Tatonka]

where are the damn capologists!

EB and CP :cp:

[Ingtar33]

did i ever say thornton was a special player?

I said, all things considered he'd be a good option when considering the limited options we have in FA

[clumping platelets]

Capologists????


:couch:

[clumping platelets]

I'll post something soon