One thing to remember when *****ing and griping...

[Ebenezer]

please provide an alternative. We go through this every year...somebody *****ing about somebody's performance but not providing any real solution. You don't want Losman here...fine. You don't want McGahee here...fine. You don't want Moorman here...you got a screw lose. When saying that Losman has to go or McGahee has to go just don't ***** about how they performed. Suggest a real alternative or the opinion is meaningless.

For example. Losman finished the number 11 QB in the NFL...that means that there are 19 QBs WORSE than he is. If you don't want him to be the QB next year then you better make a suggestion as to who should be here. And remember...if they draft a rookie it means going back to square one...have fun.

:bigwave:

[TacklingDummy]

QB ratings mean nothing.

[Ebenezer]

QB ratings mean nothing.
who is your alternative to JP...put up or shut up.

[YardRat]

Just throwing this out there for info's sake, not supporting one side or the other...

Jake Plummer was the fourth highest ranked QB in the NFL in 2005, which by your logic suggests only three were better and 28 were worse...yet that didn't stop Denver from drafting Cutler.

[Ebenezer]

Just throwing this out there for info's sake, not supporting one side or the other...

Jake Plummer was the fourth highest ranked QB in the NFL in 2005, which by your logic suggests only three were better and 28 were worse...yet that didn't stop Denver from drafting Cutler.
..and they missed the playoffs too, didn't they.

[TacklingDummy]

who is your alternative to JP...put up or shut up.


Damon Huard must be the 2nd best QB in the NFL since he has the 2nd best QB rating.

[Ebenezer]

Damon Huard must be the 2nd best QB in the NFL since he has the 2nd best QB rating.
do you want Huard here? say it if you do. suggest something real or stop the whining.

[YardRat]

..and they missed the playoffs too, didn't they.

Yes they did, but passer rating is no way an indication that the position can't, shouldn't, or doesn't need to be upgraded.

[Ebenezer]

Yes they did, but passer rating is no way an indication that the position can't, shouldn't, or doesn't need to be upgraded.
feel free to suggest a real viable alternative that can step in in game #1 next year, take ever snap and guarentee and 8-8 or better record...

[YardRat]

feel free to suggest a real viable alternative that can step in in game #1 next year, take ever snap and guarentee and 8-8 or better record...

Feel free to point out a post where I indicated JP should be replaced as the starter next year.

[Ebenezer]

Feel free to point out a post where I indicated JP should be replaced as the starter next year.
then i take it you want JP?

[TacklingDummy]

then i take it you want JP?

Nope. But it doesn't matter what I want. The Bills will suffer again next year with JP as the starter.

[Ebenezer]

Nope. But it doesn't matter what I want. The Bills will suffer again next year with JP as the starter.
who is your alternative??...again, put up or shut up.

[TacklingDummy]

Draft someone.

[jmb1099]

Nope. But it doesn't matter what I want.
:dance:

[Ebenezer]

Draft someone.
ok...you're pissing in the wind and liking it...and I'm done with your "arguement" about the topic...worthless.

[YardRat]

then i take it you want JP?

I think JP has earned the right to go into next season as the #1 and an upgrade at the QB position isn't nearly as much of a necessity as several other positions on the team.

I certainly wouldn't consider using a first rounder on a QB, or attempt to break the bank in FA to bring somebody else in at this point.

But my 'assessment', for what it's worth, isn't based on what his passer rating for the year was, either, or where he 'ranked' with the rest of the QB's in the league.

[TacklingDummy]

ok...you're pissing in the wind and liking it...and I'm done with your "arguement" about the topic...worthless.

As is this thread. Since there is no answer that anyone can give that will please you.

You're basing this thread on QB ratings. QB ratings are worthless. As is this thread.

[jmb1099]

As is this thread. Since there is no answer that anyone can give that will please you.
That's not true he's asking everyone to man up with real soultions rather than *****ing and moaning for the sake of *****ing and moaning. Man up with the name of the qb you think we should draft or replace Losman with in FA.

[Ebenezer]

I think JP has earned the right to go into next season as the #1 and an upgrade at the QB position isn't nearly as much of a necessity as several other positions on the team.

I certainly wouldn't consider using a first rounder on a QB, or attempt to break the bank in FA to bring somebody else in at this point.

But my 'assessment', for what it's worth, isn't based on what his passer rating for the year was, either, or where he 'ranked' with the rest of the QB's in the league.
absolutely...not that there is anybody out there...Want to move up to draft Quinn or another QB? Big money and little guarentee of instant success. FA?? retreads and never weres and bonus money RW probably wouldn't pay out. JP is fine right where he is. Is he JKII?? no. Is he better than a lot of the crap out there? yup. Should he be given a 5 yr contract extention? no. Should they consider extending him? yup.

Unless the kid completely falls apart next year he is here for a while.

I don't think there is any alternative to JP short of getting Manning, Brees, Rivers, etc. and those players are not available. He is the best alternative out there unless somebody can think of something other than "draft somebody".

[Ebenezer]

That's not true he's asking everyone to man up with real soultions rather than *****ing and moaning for the sake of *****ing and moaning. Man up with the name of the qb you think we should draft or replace Losman with in FA.
AMEN. and they won't...they never do.

like any big name FA's are just going to drop available...:rolleyes:

here is the list so far:
Matt Schaub, RFA, Atlanta Falcons
Damon Huard, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Rohan Davey, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Shaun King, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
John Navarre, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Tim Rattay, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Anthony Wright, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

somehow I don't think Manning, Brees or Rivers joins the list.

[TacklingDummy]

That's not true he's asking everyone to man up with real soultions rather than *****ing and moaning for the sake of *****ing and moaning. Man up with the name of the qb you think we should draft or replace Losman with in FA.

The draft is how many months away? Who's available thru Free Agency next year? How can the question be answered when the answers are not even known yet.

The only one bitiching and whining in this thread is the person who says everyone is *****ing and whining.

[jmb1099]

The draft is how many months away? Who's available thru Free Agency next year? How can the question be answered when the answers are not even known yet.

The only one bitiching and whining in this thread is the person who says everyone is *****ing and whining.
nah
A few short months ago you were tossing names around freely. I'm not going to pretend to read anyone's mind, but my guess is that you thought we had a legitimate shot at landing Brady Quinn but that as the season progressed the Bills played better than you had anticipated they would and played themselves out of your dream pick.

[Ebenezer]

now..here are the FA RBs available next year...I'll put my voice out there...I want McGahee gone and I will take Turner but he is a RFA. Short of that, there are too many needs on this team to spend a draft pick on a RB. McGahee or Thomas it will be.

Ahman Green, UFA, Green Bay Packers
Michael Turner, RFA, San Diego Chargers
Chris Brown, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Correll Buckhalter, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Najeh Davenport, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Nick Goings, UFA, Carolina Panthers
Maurice Hicks, RFA, San Francisco 49ers
Patrick Pass, UFA, New England Patriots
B.J. Sams, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Marcel Shipp, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Antowain Smith, UFA, Houston Texans

[jmb1099]

AMEN. and they won't...they never do.

like any big name FA's are just going to drop available...:rolleyes:

here is the list so far:
Matt Schaub, RFA, Atlanta Falcons
Damon Huard, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Rohan Davey, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Shaun King, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
John Navarre, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Tim Rattay, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Anthony Wright, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

somehow I don't think Manning, Brees or Rivers joins the list.
Agreed.
And as well as Manning plays in the regular season, he has so far laid a huge egg in post season. I hope for his sake he can change that or his carrer will be defined by what he couldn't do rather than what he did.

[jmb1099]

now..here are the FA RBs available next year...I'll put my voice out there...I want McGahee gone and I will take Turner but he is a RFA. Short of that, there are too many needs on this team to spend a draft pick on a RB. McGahee or Thomas it will be.

Ahman Green, UFA, Green Bay Packers
Michael Turner, RFA, San Diego Chargers
Chris Brown, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Correll Buckhalter, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Najeh Davenport, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Nick Goings, UFA, Carolina Panthers
Maurice Hicks, RFA, San Francisco 49ers
Patrick Pass, UFA, New England Patriots
B.J. Sams, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Marcel Shipp, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Antowain Smith, UFA, Houston Texans
I'd take green and turner in a heartbeat over WM.

[Ebenezer]

I'd take green and turner in a heartbeat over WM.
see...that is all I want is names...

[jmb1099]

see...that is all I want is names...
Seemed simple enough to me
Green is a workhorse
Turner is dying to get out from behind LT
Bring them both in

[Ebenezer]

Seemed simple enough to me
Green is a workhorse
Turner is dying to get out from behind LT
Bring them both in
i agree...the real problem is the G's on the line though.

[TacklingDummy]

see...that is all I want is names...

Im against signing a QB by Free Agency. Unless its a stop gap QB.

I would have liked the Bills to have drafted Leinart last year but they didn't. I will be able to answer your question next draft.

So far 2 mock drafts I have read have had the Bills picking...Buffalo - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
If he declares, he’s a first round talent. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nflmockdraft.html

[jmb1099]

i agree...the real problem is the G's on the line though.
Fix the oline and everything else gets better. Any Idea who might be available?

[Ebenezer]

Fix the oline and everything else gets better. Any Idea who might be available?
the guy they should have drafted instead of McGahee....

Eric Steinbach, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

other OL:

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals
Mike Gandy, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Jordan Black, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Carswell, UFA, Denver Broncos
Derrick Dockery, UFA, Washington Redskins
Nat Dorsey, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Norm Katnik, RFA, New York Jets
Ryan Lilja, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Sean Locklear, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Roman Oben, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Brian Rimpf, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Todd Steussie, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kris Dielman, UFA, San Diego
Damion McIntosh, UFA, Miami Dolphins

[jmb1099]

the guy they should have drafted instead of McGahee....

Eric Steinbach, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

other OL:

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals
Mike Gandy, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Jordan Black, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Carswell, UFA, Denver Broncos
Derrick Dockery, UFA, Washington Redskins
Nat Dorsey, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Norm Katnik, RFA, New York Jets
Ryan Lilja, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Sean Locklear, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Roman Oben, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Brian Rimpf, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Todd Steussie, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kris Dielman, UFA, San Diego
Damion McIntosh, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Time for me to do a little research. Be back shortly.

[jmb1099]

the guy they should have drafted instead of McGahee....

Eric Steinbach, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

other OL:

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals
Mike Gandy, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Jordan Black, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Carswell, UFA, Denver Broncos
Derrick Dockery, UFA, Washington Redskins
Nat Dorsey, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Norm Katnik, RFA, New York Jets
Ryan Lilja, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Sean Locklear, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Roman Oben, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Brian Rimpf, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Todd Steussie, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kris Dielman, UFA, San Diego
Damion McIntosh, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Age and injuries.
I really liked the upside to Max Starks, youthful, good size and such. I love the experience of a Steussie, but age has to be a factor at this point. Still I wouldn't mind seeing either of these guys. Roman Oben would be an upgrade as well.
I have regained some confidence in Mcnally since the shift at the bye, it would be interesting to see what he could pull off with a few more decent lineman

[The_Philster]

As is this thread. Since there is no answer that anyone can give that will please you.

You're basing this thread on QB ratings. QB ratings are worthless. As is this thread.
actually, Eb actually watches the games..I'd say he's basing it off of what he's seen rather than a blind hatred....I know that's what I base my evaluations off of

[Historian]

Antowain Smith, UFA, Houston Texans

:rofl:

[DynaPaul]

I'm happy with JP as the QB and not so happy with McGahee. I think we could upgrade McGahee through the draft or with some of those free agent names people listed like Ahman Green. The right side of the line needs upgrading too, I think the left side is playing fine. Also, a big ass DT next to Triplett would help as well. I hope Fletch doesn't leave because if he does then we'll need another middle LB.

[mybills]

:rofl:
I spotted that, too. He's an upgrade? :rofl:

[SABURZFAN]

The draft is how many months away? Who's available thru Free Agency next year? How can the question be answered when the answers are not even known yet.

The only one bitiching and whining in this thread is the person who says everyone is *****ing and whining.



:bf1:

[justasportsfan]

who is your alternative to JP...put up or shut up.he wants Flutie back.

[Ebenezer]

:rofl:
I cut and pasted a list...I didn't edit it because I didn't want to be seen as being biased.

[G. Host]

For example. Losman finished the number 11 QB in the NFL...that means that there are 19 QBs WORSE than he is.


Nope it means there are a more than 19 QBs WORSE than him since most teams have at least 3 QBs. It does NOT mean he is the 11th best QB in the league because QB ratong is a fantasy number and is not a true rating and is only brought up by advocates when he was doing well.

[Ingtar33]

Im against signing a QB by Free Agency. Unless its a stop gap QB.

I would have liked the Bills to have drafted Leinart last year but they didn't. I will be able to answer your question next draft.

So far 2 mock drafts I have read have had the Bills picking...Buffalo - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
If he declares, he’s a first round talent. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nflmockdraft.html


Leinart? Did you notice Matt Leinart finished the year with the exact same stats as Charley Frey? Frey didn't have Bolden and Fitzgerald to throw to either. His line was worse then Leinart's too.

Perhaps a little objective analysis of numbers is needed here, since i don't think you actually watched Leinart play, if you wanted him over Losman.

Might Leinart be something in this league? Probably... he needs to learn to look off receivers, throw timed passes, work on his 20 yard outs and make quicker decisions.

Now you all know i was not a fan of the JP pick, and thought he'd be a terrible pro quarterback. But I'm a bills fan first, and prefer it to be proven wrong. Quarterback was not a problem for this team after the bye. JP carried the team at times, he didn't kill the Bills down the stretch.

He's accurate, has a strong enough arm to throw at the Ralph (something Rivers and Leinart do not have, so please when you're talking about QBs to replace him remember, arm strength is a must), his reads have gotten better, and he's making better decision. At the moment he has showed enough to me to convince me he could be a long time starting QB in the NFL. That's enough for me to look at spending our time and energy looking to FIX the real holes on this roster.

Both Guards, NT, LB and CB, with strong maybes at WR, RB and TE

How about as a board we ALL (both pro and con) drop the JP argument (he's going to start next year min), and talk a bit about the real issues with this football team.

[clumping platelets]

:10:

[Saratoga Slim]

Leinart? Did you notice Matt Leinart finished the year with the exact same stats as Charley Frey? Frey didn't have Bolden and Fitzgerald to throw to either. His line was worse then Leinart's too.

Perhaps a little objective analysis of numbers is needed here, since i don't think you actually watched Leinart play, if you wanted him over Losman.

Might Leinart be something in this league? Probably... he needs to learn to look off receivers, throw timed passes, work on his 20 yard outs and make quicker decisions.

Now you all know i was not a fan of the JP pick, and thought he'd be a terrible pro quarterback. But I'm a bills fan first, and prefer it to be proven wrong. Quarterback was not a problem for this team after the bye. JP carried the team at times, he didn't kill the Bills down the stretch.

He's accurate, has a strong enough arm to throw at the Ralph (something Rivers and Leinart do not have, so please when you're talking about QBs to replace him remember, arm strength is a must), his reads have gotten better, and he's making better decision. At the moment he has showed enough to me to convince me he could be a long time starting QB in the NFL. That's enough for me to look at spending our time and energy looking to FIX the real holes on this roster.

Both Guards, NT, LB and CB, with strong maybes at WR, RB and TE

How about as a board we ALL (both pro and con) drop the JP argument (he's going to start next year min), and talk a bit about the real issues with this football team.

I agree on the Losman stuff, as I think most do around here at this point.

I think your shopping list is right on too, but I see 'both' guards as a need primarily because Gandy is a UFA. If he were under contract I'd say RG is a critical need, but that I'd be OK with letting Gandy start at LG for continuity sake and drafting someone to challenge him.

I also agree with your description of WR, RB, and TE as "strong maybes". With the exception of Evans, we have decent talent at each position, but no one who really requires defenses to adjust their game plans.

[HHURRICANE]

do you want Huard here? say it if you do. suggest something real or stop the whining.

Ebenezer this might be the greatest post ever. This is all I ever ask for on this board! Back up your smack and give a solution!! AWESOME thread!!

[HHURRICANE]

As is this thread. Since there is no answer that anyone can give that will please you.

You're basing this thread on QB ratings. QB ratings are worthless. As is this thread.

GIVE AN ALTERNATIVE IF JP ISN"T THE ANSWER!!!! This is why you should be banned for spam!!

[HHURRICANE]

[IMG]

SABURZFAN AND TACKLING DUMMY! I knew they were together!!

[HHURRICANE]

Okay:

1) JP's the starter but let's bring in a legit backup. If he gets hurt we are screwed! Huard, Schaub, I don't care but someone who can play if he gets hurt.

2) Look at point one! Our RB position scares the crap out of me. Late in the season we were relying on JP to win games. Unless RB gets addressed than plan on it again in 2007. Draft or FA I don't care.

3) Our D needs a real reworking. Move Hargrove to DE, don't resign Kelsay and focus on the DT position. I would take Pat Williams only if we ran the table and looked like a deep playoff team. Anytime you can improve a position that is what you are supposed to do. Replace Anderson and Jefferson with someobody better, maybe Pat.

4) WE DON"T NEED A ANOTHER TE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED A BIG #2 receiver. Someone who commands attention on the other side because it's not Peerless Price. I am also in favor of cutting Peerlesss: Evans, #2, Reed, Parrish. I think Peerless is a waste of a roster spot and even though we would take a cap hit it doesn't mean much considering we are 40 mil under!