According to Vic Carucci

[Captain Obvious]

On Channel 7 news tonight, he mentioned that there was talk in the pressbox at the New England- New York game among the New England media that JP Losmans rapid improvement in the 2nd half of the 2006 season makes the Bills a "dangerous" team in 2007,, Interesting the New England media would feel this way...

[clumping platelets]

If we make the 4th and 1, we would have beaten NE in week 1.......we shore up the run D and get Losman another target other than Evans, this team will be dangerous

[Yasgur's Farm]

Dwayne Jarrett baby!

[Mitchy moo]

Just like the fear Miami was going to strike at the beginning of this season. I'll wait until after the draft, all of the preseason and about 8 games to see our danger level. :rrich:

[BillsNick]

Dwayne Jarrett baby!

Not happening.

[Dr. Lecter]

Dwayne Jarrett baby!

I hope not.

WR is down the list of what this team needs.

[don137]

The biggest question mark regarding this team is no longer QB. JP has matured greatly. I'd take him over Eli Manning at this point. The biggest question is can/will Wilson shell out the dollars to improve the holes in this team. The Bills may be 30-40 million under the 2007 cap but he will need to spend a lot more in signing bonuses this off-season. Not sure if Wilson will spend it. If he does then the Bills can become a legit threat next year. They are young, finally have the QB position resolved for the first time in 10 years and have a great nucleus. Now, if Wilson will pay to fill the holes will remain to be seen.

[BillsNick]

I think Wilson wants to see a winner before he dies, so I think that seeing as how we have a pretty strong foundation finally, he will spend a little money this offseason.

[HAMMER]

Just like the fear Miami was going to strike at the beginning of this season. I'll wait until after the draft, all of the preseason and about 8 games to see our danger level. :rrich:

This doesn't sound like the eternally optimistic Skoobs we all know and love.

[mysticsoto]

Dwayne Jarrett baby!

We will likely be drafting DT/LB/CB in that order, depending on what we do in FA!!! If we got them all in FA, then I could see us grabbing Jarrett...maybe.

[Dr. Lecter]

We will likely be drafting DT/LB/CB in that order, depending on what we do in FA!!! If we got them all in FA, then I could see us grabbing Jarrett...maybe.

Even after those three positions, I would still look for a guard or RT before WR!

[justasportsfan]

unless there's a D'Brick type of player who can come in and make an impact right away, I doubt Marv will draft OL is the first rd.

[feelthepain]

If we make the 4th and 1, we would have beaten NE in week 1.......we shore up the run D and get Losman another target other than Evans, this team will be dangerous

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

[Michael82]

Dwayne Jarrett baby!
:drool:

[Romes]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

:roflmao:

[Mahdi]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.
If Daunte was healthy you would have the first pick in the draft!

[Gunzlingr]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

:rofl:

[JoeMama]

On Channel 7 news tonight, he mentioned that there was talk in the pressbox at the New England- New York game among the New England media that JP Losmans rapid improvement in the 2nd half of the 2006 season makes the Bills a "dangerous" team in 2007,, Interesting the New England media would feel this way...

A Buffalo quarterback that commands respect?

Had to read that twice. It's been a while.

Over the past week or so, it seems like Losman has been getting a lot of praise around the league.

I guess a lot of these NFL pundits finally saw his season totals & realized "Hey, this kid had a good year."

[don137]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

Who invited the comedian?

[Jan Reimers]

We will likely be drafting DT/LB/CB in that order, depending on what we do in FA!!! If we got them all in FA, then I could see us grabbing Jarrett...maybe.
With Triplett having played better as the season progressed, Williams showing signs of being a street fighter, a largely unknown Number 1 pick (McCargo) coming back from injury, and Hargrove looking like a decent run stopping DE, I'm not sure we draft a DT in the first round.

I would like to see LB and OL in the first two rounds.

[justasportsfan]

wow , the finfans' leader or their voice here on BZ is getting laughed at a lot when he speaks on behalf of the fish nation. :D

[feelthepain]

Who invited the comedian?


I'd rather be a comedian then a dreamer, AKA Bills fans.

[Buffalogic]

Damn this fin fan is on another planet. What a clown.

[Ickybaluky]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what you base that on, considering after the Moss trade Culpepper had an average of 2 interceptions and 6 sacks a game before he blew his knee out. His poor play in Miami wasn't a new thing, it was a continuation of his play prior to getting hurt.

Unless you have a great running game and great WR who he can throw jump balls to downfield, Culpepper can't do a whole lot. A good defense just takes away his first read downfield and he ends up holding the ball too long because he can't run an offense like a real NFL QB should. Sure, he looks great in a uniform, being big and having a strong arm and all, but he really isn't a guy who is going to win big games.

The Dolphins should have seen this, but they screwed up. They should have seen that when his backups got a chance to play (other than Spergon Wynn, who flat out sucked), they actually out-performed Culpepper. Check it out:

- In 2001, Todd Bouman played for 2 games when Culpepper was hurt and threw 8 TD to 4 Int with a 98.3 QB Rating (Minnesota was 1-1 in those games).

- In 2003, Guss Frerotte played for 2 games when Culpepper missed time and threw 7 TD to 2 Int with a 118.1 QB Rating (Minnesota went 2-0 in those games).

- In 2005, Brad Johnson replaced Culpepper after he was injured and threw 12 TD to 4 Int with a QB Rating of 88.9 (Minnesota went 7-2 in those games).


What does that prove?

What is shows is that Culpeppers' backups went a combined 10-3 with 27 TDs to 10 Int and a 94.8 QB Rating. It was the great offensive talent in Minnesota, like Robert Smith, Randy Moss and Cris Carter, that drove the Minnesota offense and not the QB. Miami didn't trade for a great QB, they traded for a guy who didn't even outplay his backups.

That is why he sucked. Blame the knee if you want, but that isn't the story. Miami screwed up, they could have had Drew Brees.

Granted, I'd love for the Dolphins to keep Culpepper and pin their hopes on him. It would be one less team to challenge for the division.

[jamze132]

if Dwayne Jarrett is there at #12, you don't pass on him.

[Mahdi]

Posluzny is a perfect pick at 12 assuming we address the OL in FA. He's very smart on and off the field, good character kid and is a perfect LB for our system where smaller faster LBs are needed. Spikes at SLB, Crowell MLB and Posluzny at WLB. This guy has Marv pick written all over him ala Shane Conlan.

[Don't Panic]

With Triplett having played better as the season progressed, Williams showing signs of being a street fighter, a largely unknown Number 1 pick (McCargo) coming back from injury, and Hargrove looking like a decent run stopping DE, I'm not sure we draft a DT in the first round.

I would like to see LB and OL in the first two rounds.

Hallelujah to that... especially OL. DT has to be considered a decently stocked position considering we went nearly the entire year without McCargo. Not saying we don't need a little more help there, but not 1st round help. OL is clearly our greatest area of need, especially if we re-sign Nate. Even if we sign someone of quality in FA, we still need to go OL with our 1st. There needs to be some serious competition with some true talent next year in camp. Give this team a top 10 OL and we will be making some noise next year.

[Dr. Lecter]

In the last ten years the Bills have spent 3 first day picks on O-lineman. Maybe it is time to change that trend.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I hope not.

WR is down the list of what this team needs.That's why we address the 4 higher priorities with proven players via free agency.

[justasportsfan]

That's why we address the 4 higher priorities with proven players via free agency.
:up:

[don137]

Posluzny is a perfect pick at 12 assuming we address the OL in FA. He's very smart on and off the field, good character kid and is a perfect LB for our system where smaller faster LBs are needed. Spikes at SLB, Crowell MLB and Posluzny at WLB. This guy has Marv pick written all over him ala Shane Conlan.

I agree 100%. He is a Marv guy. I read somewhere that he could be the best of all the linebackers ever to come out of linebacker U. If the don't go OL I could see this pick in a heartbeat.

[Philagape]

We need a stud LB in the draft, whether it be Pos or Willis. We already have decent starters, but a couple of them are on the downside of their careers. A first-rounder could start right away if needed.

The positions where we have immediate needs and can't wait for a rookie to develop are what we should seek in FA, primarily guard and another receiving threat (which can be a TE). Unless it's a blue-chip, offensive rookies tend to take more time to develop.

We could use a DT too; that can be a rookie or FA.

I'd say CB would be an immediate need, but the good FAs are overpriced, so we may be stuck with what we have plus a rookie.

[kernowboy]

I would be absolutedly be delighted if we had a day1 draft of Paul Posluzny, Amobi Okoye and Doug Free.

What about Kris Dielman as a FA pickup at guard?

[justasportsfan]

I would be absolutedly be delighted if we had a day1 draft of Paul Posluzny,
Is he any better than AJ Hawk?

[feelthepain]

I'm not sure what you base that on,

What do I base that on??

This:
Moss only had 767 yards receiving and 13 TD's in O4, in Dauntes best year as a pro. Daunte threw for over 4700 yards and 39 TD's and only 11 int's, with a compl% of 69.2% and a QB rating of 110, along with a probowl apperance in 04. Those are facts, so the "Daunte is nothing without Randy" excuse doesn't hold water, who caught the other 4000 yards passing and 26 TD's in 04?

Answer the question, who caught the other 4000 yards of passing and 26 TD's?? I really love how people think Randy was "all that", and Daunte's only reason for success, when Randys the one who's nothing without Daunte. At least Daunte threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's without Randy and made the probowl Randy hasn't done crap since 04.




Granted, I'd love for the Dolphins to keep Culpepper and pin their hopes on him. It would be one less team to challenge for the division.

I see, well here is a few questions for you,

Name one season when Tom Brady threw 39 TD's,

name one season Brady threw for even close to 4700 yards,

name one season when Brady threw just 11 int's,

name one season Brady even came close to throwing 69% in completions,

name one season when Brady even came close to 110 QB rating??

Fact is Brady hasn't done any of those things individually in any season, much less all of those things in just one season, a season that maybe 1/4 of it involved Randy Moss. So don't gie me this crap about Culpeppers ability, he has the stats and probowls under his belt, it's not speculation nor is it a result of just one WR.

Now everything I just posted is fact, not me imagining things, not me using my bias opinion, not me speculating. Daunte's numbers are indisputable. Daunte's numbers did decline in 05, but Daunte lost his center Berk and his OC in 05 and Daunte's numbers were starting to rebound midway thorugh the 05 season because he and the rest of the O in Minn just before he was injured started to mesh under their new OC, losing an OC can be as big a loss, as a team getting a good OC can be a big gain it always an adjustment. And losing the center you've had since the day you turned pro can also have a big effect on a QB's play. You don't have to like it, but you can't tell me neither of those things had a negative effect on Daunte's performance in 05.

With the help of a Fin fan on finheaven, this was a nice little "did you know" about Daunt in 06, even though he clearly wasn't healthy enough to play at full speed, these are still some things he did do this year, keep in mind he only played 4 games this because he wasn't physically ready to return:



Daunte threw the ball 20 times in that half. (Remember our running game was non exsistant.) Of those 20 throws, Pittsburgh blitzed 11 times and not once did they get to Culpepper. Daunte completed 7 quick passes on those blitz plays and picked up decent yardage with each one. His total stat line was 11/20 with 143 yards. Of those 9 incompletions, 3 were dropped, 3 were bad throws, 2 were thrown away and one was broker up.


Those are pretty damn good numbers, he was on pace for 300 yards passing against the defending SB champions in their house, even though he couldn't really move all that well. All this proves is Daunte has all the tools to be everything you'd want in a starting QB, if he had been 100% healthy, he would have been a huge upgrade for us at QB position this year.

Also missing Ricky and his 743 yards and 4.4 YPC avg and 6 TD's, and missing Ronnie for three games with a broken hand, miami didn't have a lot of their best players for some or all of the season, that's what I base that on.




What is shows is that Culpeppers' backups went a combined 10-3 with 27 TDs to 10 Int and a 94.8 QB Rating. It was the great offensive talent in Minnesota, like Robert Smith, Randy Moss and Cris Carter, that drove the Minnesota offense and not the QB. Miami didn't trade for a great QB, they traded for a guy who didn't even outplay his backups.


Well I guess using this theory, Donavan McNabb isn't a great QB because Jeff Garcia outperfomed since he's been injured. With McNabb the Eagles were struggling, with Garcia they are on a 6 game winning streak. your theorys are stupid, just because a QB comes in and plays well doesn't mean he's better then the guy he's replacing, Earl Moral came in and replaced Bob Griese early in the year during the Dolphins un-defeated season, was Earl Moral better then Bob Griese??? No, there are so many times in history that a QB has been replaced by a backup due to injury and the team continues to play well, because it's a team sport. Just because the QB goes down doesn't mean the rest of the team doesn't want to win anymore, give me a break with your dumb analogy.

[Dozerdog]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.



...and If I could crap gold bricks I would be rich

[feelthepain]

...and If I could crap gold bricks I would be rich

I didn't start the "if" game, Clumpy did! I posted it because Bill fans seem to think beating Miami's injured and backup players is some kinda major accomplishment. I'm curious, Bill fans think their team is improving...why did you lose 9 games including the last two, if your team is improrving?? Sounds like wishful thinking, not fact.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fact is, they played much better in the 2nd half of the season. Fact is, they played all four teams remaining in the AFC playoffs.

[G. Host]

Fact is, they played much better in the 3nd half of the season. Fact is, they played all four teams remaining in the AFC playoffs.

Third Half? I do not think the Bills made it to playoffs so no Overtime.
Fact is Bills did not play 3rd half of the season.

[HHURRICANE]

Just like the fear Miami was going to strike at the beginning of this season. I'll wait until after the draft, all of the preseason and about 8 games to see our danger level. :rrich:

Ice, stop posting with Skooby's name! The Skooby I know would already have us in next year's Superbowl.

[Dr. Lecter]

Third Half? I do not think the Bills made it to playoffs so no Overtime.
Fact is Bills did not play 3rd half of the season.

Fixed.

[HHURRICANE]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

I was glad to see Ricky and the Argonauts win the Grey Cup. Ricky's record breaking season in the CFL really showed what Miami missed by not having him.

[Ickybaluky]

FTP, you have lost your mind. You want to compare Culpepper to Brady? You are nuts. How about we compare their postseason winning%?

<b>The whole point was Culpepper was made to look a lot better than he was by the talent he played with. Brady makes the talent around him better.</b>

Look at what happened in 2004 when Culpepper put up all those pretty numbers. He got *****-slapped by the Eagles come playoff time, and watched Tom Brady tool those same Eagles a few weeks later.

How many Pro Bowlers has Culpepper played with in his career? Brady has played with one (Damien Woody in 2002) with another who made it as an alternate (Troy Brown in 2000).

You can't deny that once Moss was traded, Culpepper wasn't the same player. He threw 12 interceptions in 6 games before ever getting injured. Teams took away the easy reads and he had to play QB, and he couldn't handle it.

[clumping platelets]

We will likely be drafting DT/LB/CB in that order, depending on what we do in FA!!! If we got them all in FA, then I could see us grabbing Jarrett...maybe.


Not true..............you do not go into the draft saying we gotta get a DT in rd 1, LB in rd 2, etc........you draft based on many variables with need being only one of them. What players we lose and add in FA being another. Future FA is another variable as is age at a particular position.

So, outside of QB/K/P/S, Bills can consider any other position in rd 1 or basically go BPA.....if that is a WR, then so be it. WR is as much a need as the run D IMHO because we truly do need another legitimate target for JP. Evans goes down, offense grinds to a complete halt

[feelthepain]

FTP, you have lost your mind. You want to compare Culpepper to Brady? You are nuts. How about we compare their postseason winning%?

I don't see you answering thee questions I asked in the previous post. Why?? Why hasn't Brady ever even come close to the numbers of Culpepper....remember we're talking about the QB position, not SB wins or playoff victories, we're talking about just the QB and what they've done, winning it all is a team thing not a QB thing. What you can't seem to get through your head is, Brady doesn't make the "whole team" better, he's only part of the machine BB has built in NE. Brady's numbers aren't special, he's done nothing to seperate himself from any other QB in the league. You just want to heap praise on him, because he's the QB, just like you want to trash Harrington for the same. Fact is there are four aspects to a great team, O,D,ST and coaching. Brady is ony responsible for one aspect of that combination. So how the hell can you tell anyone that Brady makes everyone better???

He never steps on the field on D or ST and he never makes personel decisions. Get off of Bradys jock, he's a good QB and he's been fortunate enough to be the Pats QB, but there isn't any reason to believe the Pats wouldn't be where they are if, Manning, or Mcnair or McNabb or Palmer or Roethisberger or Brees were QB instead of Brady. All of those QB's have the ability and smarts to win a SB. So get off your high horse about Brady, sure he's a good QB and he would make a lot of teams better, but he isn't the reason the Pats are where they are, hell he didn't even make the probowl this year.


Look at what happened in 2004 when Culpepper put up all those pretty numbers. He got *****-slapped by the Eagles come playoff time, and watched Tom Brady tool those same Eagles a few weeks later.

Uh huh, and where was the Vikes D ranked in 04?? Do you think Brady would have gone any farther with that D?? Hell, look at Culpeppers numbers in 04, he wasn't the reason the Vikes didn't advance.


You can't deny that once Moss was traded, Culpepper wasn't the same player. He threw 12 interceptions in 6 games before ever getting injured. Teams took away the easy reads and he had to play QB, and he couldn't handle it.

Are you ignorant or can't you read??? I already responded to this question, Culpepper lost his OC and center that 05.

Dauntes numbers in 05:

Week 1-Tampa Bay: 22/33 233 3int's 19 rushing yards

Week 2-Cincy: 21/37 236 5 int's 10 rushing yards

Week 3-NO: 21/29 300 yards 3 TD's 36 rushing yards

Week 4-Atl: 23/34 250 yards 1 TD 2 int's 10 rushing yards

Week 5-Chicago 26/48 237 yards 2 int's 14 rushing yards

Week 6- GB: 23/31 280 yards 2 TD's 41 rushing yards Totals:1500+ yards passing 136/212

Given the fact that Daunte had a whole new system to learn and new center to get use to, he still managed a 64.4 compl% threw for over 1500 yards and ran for another 150.... Brady's played in 96 games and never ran for more then 110 yards in a 16 game season and he's only run for a little over 400 yards for his career, Daunte on the other hand has 2500 rushing yards for his career, thats another dimension Brady doesn't bring to the table that Daunte Does. Remember were talking QB here not the entire team.


Now here was Brad Johnson 6 games after Daunte injury,

Week 7- Carolina: 13/28 162 yards 1 TD

Week 8- Detroit: 15/22 136 yards 2 TD's

Week 9- Giants: 17-30 144 yards

Week 10- GB: 18-30 196 yards 1 int

Week 11- Cleve: 19/28 207 yards 3 TD's 1 int

Week 12- Detroit: 17/23 256 2 TD's, TOTAL 1100 yards passing and 99/161

Not only did Daunte face the tougher half of the schedule, but he threw the ball a lot more and the Vikes rushing game wasn't nearly as effective as it was for Brad, infact of the 509 rushing yards the Vikes had the first 6 games with Daunte, 147 of those yards were Dauntes, The Vikes ran the ball much better the second 6 games for Brad because the teams they faced under Brad were not nearly as good as the teams Daunte faced the first 6 weeks. If you don't think that has an effect on the QB YOU'RE NUTS. I'd say there is a whole lot missing from your version of what Daunte did the first 6 games of 05. But why dwell on facts, they only mess up your opinion.

[feelthepain]

I was glad to see Ricky and the Argonauts win the Grey Cup. Ricky's record breaking season in the CFL really showed what Miami missed by not having him.


OMG, are you now going to compare the Argonauts talent to the Dolphins talent???

Ricky rushing part time (splitting carries with Ronnie) in 05 after missing the first 4 games of the season
743 yards 4.4 ypc, 6 TD's....

Now lets see what Willis did this year for your "improving Bills"!!

14 games 909 3.8 ypc and 6 TD's not splitting carries with anyone thats a whoping 166 yards difference, wow thats....not really much at all....but you're improving, somewhere, uh let me know when you find it, cause it isn't in your 28th ranked rushing attack or your 27th ranked passing attack or your 27th ranked rushing D....but it's there, you can feel it.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Awwwww........Someone's got a poopy diaper! :cry:

[Historian]

:lolpoint: fish

[mybills]

Interesting the New England media would feel this way...
It's refreshing, that's for sure! :up: The stupid commercials with the Pats players are slowly fading away as well. I hardly see them any more. :dance:

[Ickybaluky]

I don't see you answering thee questions I asked in the previous post. Why??

Because they are stupid questions. You can't seriously consider comparing Brady to Culpepper. You must not even watch them play if that is the case. Just because a guy runs up numbers, doesn't mean he is a good player. It isn't about the numbers.


Uh huh, and where was the Vikes D ranked in 04?? Do you think Brady would have gone any farther with that D??

Of course he would have.

BTW, the Vikings had the 28th ranked defense in 2004, and they went out in the second round of the playoffs when Culpepper threw 2 interceptiions and 1 garbage time TD late in the 4th quarter when the game was already decided.

In 2001, the Patriots had the 24th-ranked defense and Brady led them to their first Super Bowl victory with less talent around him that Culpepper had in 2004.

[mysticsoto]

Because they are stupid questions. You can't seriously consider comparing Brady to Culpepper. You must not even watch them play if that is the case. Just because a guy runs up numbers, doesn't mean he is a good player. It isn't about the numbers.

Of course he would have.

BTW, the Vikings had the 28th ranked defense in 2004, and they went out in the second round of the playoffs when Culpepper threw 2 interceptiions and 1 garbage time TD late in the 4th quarter when the game was already decided.

In 2001, the Patriots had the 24th-ranked defense and Brady led them to their first Super Bowl victory with less talent around him that Culpepper had in 2004.
You're wasting your time...I'm still laughing that he's comparing Daunte to Brady. In my book, Brady is the #2 best QB (behind Peyton Manning) but virtually in everyone's book Brady is definitely in their top 5 - and Daunte is no where close. This is hilarious.

He puts everybody else down when comparing to his team - but he's still in denial that JP Losman and the Bills destroyed his team last game and he is still doped up from the prozac and in denial about it!!!

[HHURRICANE]

You're wasting your time...I'm still laughing that he's comparing Daunte to Brady. In my book, Brady is the #2 best QB (behind Peyton Manning) but virtually in everyone's book Brady is definitely in their top 5 - and Daunte is no where close. This is hilarious.

He puts everybody else down when comparing to his team - but he's still in denial that JP Losman and the Bills destroyed his team last game and he is still doped up from the prozac and in denial about it!!!

Brady is probably the #1 QB as he rarely folds under pressure. FTP is in for some long seasons in Miami so I actually feel sorry for him.

[mysticsoto]

Not true..............you do not go into the draft saying we gotta get a DT in rd 1, LB in rd 2, etc........you draft based on many variables with need being only one of them. What players we lose and add in FA being another. Future FA is another variable as is age at a particular position.

So, outside of QB/K/P/S, Bills can consider any other position in rd 1 or basically go BPA.....if that is a WR, then so be it. WR is as much a need as the run D IMHO because we truly do need another legitimate target for JP. Evans goes down, offense grinds to a complete halt

I did not say we need to get a DT in rd 1, LB in rd 2 , etc. I said it would depend on FA. The order of what I listed is the order of problems that we have on our roster and reflects the priority that the position needs to be given.

Of course there are many variables that can change what you draft. Particularly, you rank the players that you would be willing to grab at the position you are to draft in. There's also trade ups/downs to consider if you really, really want a guy or if you think you can still get the guy you want lower, etc. There's all sorts of variables...my intent was to oversimplify by stating the priority needs - not that we should go and get a DT in rd 1 even if the top DTs that might fit our scheme are taken, etc.

C'mon Clump...you should know me better than that by now...

[NJFINSFAN1]

You can argue that Brady just may go down as the greatest QB ever, over Montana and Marino. Its not about stats, its about wins and how you play under pressure. Manning has yet to play well under pressure and Culpepper never played well under pressure (Big Game pressure I'm talking about).

I hate Brady, but you can't argue with what he has done.

[feelthepain]

Because they are stupid questions. You can't seriously consider comparing Brady to Culpepper. You must not even watch them play if that is the case. Just because a guy runs up numbers, doesn't mean he is a good player. It isn't about the numbers.



Of course he would have.

BTW, the Vikings had the 28th ranked defense in 2004, and they went out in the second round of the playoffs when Culpepper threw 2 interceptiions and 1 garbage time TD late in the 4th quarter when the game was already decided.

In 2001, the Patriots had the 24th-ranked defense and Brady led them to their first Super Bowl victory with less talent around him that Culpepper had in 2004.

Well that settles it then, no need for a HC, or WR's, Defense or ST......Nope!!! Just Tom Brady.

Tom Brady throws to Tom Brady, Tom Brady catches it, he gets a block from Tom Brady hes at the 30, he's at the 20, he's at the 10...TOUCHDOWN Brady!!! Boy, Brady is coaching his but off what a gameplan and what a great drive by Brady.

The Pats are set to kickoff, Brady kicks it Deep .....oHHHH, the runners crushed at the 11 yard line by Brady.....the Balls lose Brady picks it up....TOUCHDOWN Brady!!!

If one didn't know better one would swear Brady's playing every position and coaching too, but that can't be.....can it????

[justasportsfan]

NE39 is like trying to talk economics with the village idiot. :snicker:

[The last buffalo fan]

NE39 is like trying to talk economics with the village idiot. :snicker:

:posrep:

[Dr. Lecter]

Well that settles it then, no need for a HC, or WR's, Defense or ST......Nope!!! Just Tom Brady.

Tom Brady throws to Tom Brady, Tom Brady catches it, he gets a block from Tom Brady hes at the 30, he's at the 20, he's at the 10...TOUCHDOWN Brady!!! Boy, Brady is coaching his but off what a gameplan and what a great drive by Brady.

The Pats are set to kickoff, Brady kicks it Deep .....oHHHH, the runners crushed at the 11 yard line by Brady.....the Balls lose Brady picks it up....TOUCHDOWN Brady!!!

If one didn't know better one would swear Brady's playing every position and coaching too, but that can't be.....can it????

You need to clean off your aqua and coral glasses.

[The last buffalo fan]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by HHURRICANE
I was glad to see Ricky and the Argonauts win the Grey Cup. Ricky's record breaking season in the CFL really showed what Miami missed by not having him.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


OMG, are you now going to compare the Argonauts talent to the Dolphins talent???

Ricky rushing part time (splitting carries with Ronnie) in 05 after missing the first 4 games of the season
743 yards 4.4 ypc, 6 TD's....

Now lets see what Willis did this year for your "improving Bills"!!

14 games 909 3.8 ypc and 6 TD's not splitting carries with anyone thats a whoping 166 yards difference, wow thats....not really much at all....but you're improving, somewhere, uh let me know when you find it, cause it isn't in your 28th ranked rushing attack or your 27th ranked passing attack or your 27th ranked rushing D....but it's there, you can feel it.

WTF???

[pats-were-right]

If Daunte and the Oline were healthy and Ricky played this season for Miami we would be in the playoffs.

And if your personnel department had chosen Brees over Gimpy you might have had something as well.

And anyway, name a team that IS healthy throughout the year.

Pathetic excuse.

[Ickybaluky]

Well that settles it then, no need for a HC, or WR's, Defense or ST......Nope!!! Just Tom Brady.

Tom Brady throws to Tom Brady, Tom Brady catches it, he gets a block from Tom Brady hes at the 30, he's at the 20, he's at the 10...TOUCHDOWN Brady!!! Boy, Brady is coaching his but off what a gameplan and what a great drive by Brady.

The Pats are set to kickoff, Brady kicks it Deep .....oHHHH, the runners crushed at the 11 yard line by Brady.....the Balls lose Brady picks it up....TOUCHDOWN Brady!!!

If one didn't know better one would swear Brady's playing every position and coaching too, but that can't be.....can it????

Hyperbole is the asylum of ignorance.

[justasportsfan]

Hyperbole is the asylum of ignorance.PSSST!

[MikeInRoch]

Not only is Brady much, much better than Culpepper, he's also much, much better than Marino ever was.

[Billsrock4life]

i love how in the first half of the season the media is saying how bad JP and the team is and a bunch of other BS but now in the second half of the season they're saying their gonna be playoff contenders next year, damn hypocrites

[njsue]

The Beasts of the AFC East are returning :evil:

[feelthepain]

Hyperbole is the asylum of ignorance.

No more ignorant then you thinking football (at any level) isn't a team sport.

[Ickybaluky]

No more ignorant then you thinking football (at any level) isn't a team sport.

OK, you got me. I thought we were talking Tennis, and Brady would clearly beat the stuffing out of Culpepper in that.

Great job!

You win!

Your prize is you get to build your team around Daunte Culpepper and wallow in mediocrity until even the inept Miami front-office realizes he isn't going to ever come up big in a big game because he can't adjust when the defense takes away what he does best. Maybe you guys can sign Drew Bledsoe and the two of them can compare fancy numbers and draw straws to see who gets to choke in the clutch each season.

[dplus47]

Maybe you guys can sign Drew Bledsoe and the two of them can compare fancy numbers and draw straws to see who gets to choke in the clutch each season.

wouldn't peyton manning have something to say about this?

[feelthepain]

OK, you got me. I thought we were talking Tennis, and Brady would clearly beat the stuffing out of Culpepper in that.

Great job!

You win!

Your prize is you get to build your team around Daunte Culpepper and wallow in mediocrity until even the inept Miami front-office realizes he isn't going to ever come up big in a big game because he can't adjust when the defense takes away what he does best. Maybe you guys can sign Drew Bledsoe and the two of them can compare fancy numbers and draw straws to see who gets to choke in the clutch each season.


If Brady is so clutch and so wonderful, why have the Pats not won, one single SB by more then 3 points??? Brady isn't dominating the SB, he's not scoring 35 or 42 points through the air, so what you win by three points, if anything Adam deserves more credit then Brady, Adam has had the game on his sholders every time in the SB because Brady can't put the ball in the endzone, eliminating the need to win by 3 points. See here's where your opinion of Brady loses it's luster.

The Pats D and ST are every bit as big in big games as any part of the Pats team. Playing big time D and ST at the most critical times, intercepting passes and giving the ball back to the O,Kicking game winning FG's, but wheres the respect for the D or ST out of your mouth??? Nowhere, where's the respect for the adjustments and preperation to the other team by the coaching staff?? Nowhere, all you talk about is Brady as if it's all him and nothing else.

Did you ever stop to think everyone else makes Brady look good??? Where was Mr. Wonderful against the Dolphins in the second game this year?? If Brady is all that why didn't he pick up the slack for the rest of the Pats in that Miami game?? The Pats as a team lost against Miami. Not Beacuse Brady threw for 340 yards, but his receivers dropped 4 TD passes, thus losing to the Dolphins, nope Brady was just as bad as everyone else in that Miami game, the Dolphins want to beat the Pats everytime they play and beat them badly, which is why they get the best the Dolphins have to offer, even with Joey Harrington and Sammy Morris. You never giving credit to anyone or anything but Brady, exposes your lack of understanding of the fundamentals of football.

[Philagape]

Yeah, you won three Super Bowls, but not by more than three points!!! Take that!! Owned!!! :loser: :tongue:

[Dr. Lecter]

If Brady is so clutch and so wonderful, why have the Pats not won, one single SB by more then 3 points???

:shortbus:

[MikeInRoch]

I forget, how many SBs did Marino win?

[SABURZFAN]

On Channel 7 news tonight, he mentioned that there was talk in the pressbox at the New England- New York game among the New England media that JP Losmans rapid improvement in the 2nd half of the 2006 season makes the Bills a "dangerous" team in 2007,, Interesting the New England media would feel this way...


just what we need.another Lickers pud-pulling sausagefest. :down:

[mysticsoto]

If Brady is so clutch and so wonderful, why have the Pats not won, one single SB by more then 3 points??? Brady isn't dominating the SB, he's not scoring 35 or 42 points through the air, so what you win by three points, if anything Adam deserves more credit then Brady, Adam has had the game on his sholders every time in the SB because Brady can't put the ball in the endzone, eliminating the need to win by 3 points. See here's where your opinion of Brady loses it's luster.

The Pats D and ST are every bit as big in big games as any part of the Pats team. Playing big time D and ST at the most critical times, intercepting passes and giving the ball back to the O,Kicking game winning FG's, but wheres the respect for the D or ST out of your mouth??? Nowhere, where's the respect for the adjustments and preperation to the other team by the coaching staff?? Nowhere, all you talk about is Brady as if it's all him and nothing else.

Did you ever stop to think everyone else makes Brady look good??? Where was Mr. Wonderful against the Dolphins in the second game this year?? If Brady is all that why didn't he pick up the slack for the rest of the Pats in that Miami game?? The Pats as a team lost against Miami. Not Beacuse Brady threw for 340 yards, but his receivers dropped 4 TD passes, thus losing to the Dolphins, nope Brady was just as bad as everyone else in that Miami game, the Dolphins want to beat the Pats everytime they play and beat them badly, which is why they get the best the Dolphins have to offer, even with Joey Harrington and Sammy Morris. You never giving credit to anyone or anything but Brady, exposes your lack of understanding of the fundamentals of football.


Wow! That's about as dumb a post as I've seen around here...and there's been some real dumb posts!!!

FTP is using the game where the Dolphins cheated and learned Brady's audibles as evidence that Brady is not any good??? That's hilarious!!!

[Dr. Lecter]

just what we need.another Lickers pud-pulling sausagefest. :down:

BTW, where is the end of season evaluation you promised us?

[feelthepain]

I forget, how many SBs did Marino win?

I don't know how many SB's Did Dough Williams win, how many SB's did Trent Dilfer win?? How many SB's did Kurt Warner win?? How many SB did Jay Schrader win?? I could go on, are all those QB's better then Marino too?? Were talking about the QB position, are you gonna tell me Marino wouldn't have won a SB in his prime with any of those Pat teams Brady's played for?? Give it up with every QB in the league is better then Marino stupidity.

[Philagape]

How many SB's did Kurt Warner win??

One.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't know how many SB's Did Dough Williams win, how many SB's did Trent Dilfer win?? How many SB's did Kurt Warner win?? How many SB did Jay Schrader win?? I could go on, are all those QB's better then Marino too?? Were talking about the QB position, are you gonna tell me Marino wouldn't have won a SB in his prime with any of those Pat teams Brady's played for?? Give it up with every QB in the league is better then Marino stupidity.

Honest question: Where do you rank Brady in the NFL? Culpepper?

[SABURZFAN]

BTW, where is the end of season evaluation you promised us?



i didn't realize that i had a deadline to meet.i'll get around to it....when i'm bored.

[MikeInRoch]

I don't know how many SB's Did Dough Williams win, how many SB's did Trent Dilfer win?? How many SB's did Kurt Warner win?? How many SB did Jay Schrader win?? I could go on, are all those QB's better then Marino too?? Were talking about the QB position, are you gonna tell me Marino wouldn't have won a SB in his prime with any of those Pat teams Brady's played for?? Give it up with every QB in the league is better then Marino stupidity.

Yes, I'm going to tell you that Marino would not have won a SB on those teams. Because when the chips were down, he was terrible.

Marino's post season QB rating: 77.1.
Brady's post season QB rating: 91.2.

Also, in his 17 year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl (not counting himself). Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins had five pro bowl players on the team. New England's first two Super Bowl teams had a TOTAL of five pro bowlers between them.

[Dr. Lecter]

i didn't realize that i had a deadline to meet.i'll get around to it....when i'm bored.

Read some of your posts.

That should induce boredom.

[feelthepain]

Honest question: Where do you rank Brady in the NFL? Culpepper?

Honestly, Brady top 4 and a healthy Culpepper top 10. Culpepper, could go higher if he rebounds from his injuries. You can't ignore Culpeppers career compl.%, Career QB rating and yardage. Don't misunderstand my opinion of Brady and Culpepper. My opinion of the two QB's is based on what they both have done individually, not the success of their teams, because so much of what happens to the team go far beyond what either QB can do. We both know football is a team sport, without a good HC, GM, ST's, D, O, Owner and FO, you'll very rarely win one SB much less three. So while Brady was the QB of the Pats and did his part very well for the three SB's, it was the effort of everyone on the team, coaching, and FO that made those three SB in 5 years possible, not Brady alone, not even close.

Honestly answer this, could Peyton Manning win in NE??? In reverse, could Brady win in Indy?? Could Brady shore up Indy's pathetic run D???

[SABURZFAN]

Read some of your posts.

That should induce boredom.



reading the one i just quoted got me off to a good start. :yawn:

[cocamide]

Yes, I'm going to tell you that Marino would not have won a SB on those teams. Because when the chips were down, he was terrible.

Marino's post season QB rating: 77.1.
Brady's post season QB rating: 91.2.

Also, in his 17 year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl (not counting himself). Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins had five pro bowl players on the team. New England's first two Super Bowl teams had a TOTAL of five pro bowlers between them.

Great post. I'll assume the stats to be true. Brady is certainly one of the most clutch QBs I have seen in my lifetime. In a tight game, the last thing you want for your team is for Brady to have the ball last. He will do what it takes to win the game, even if it is (god forbid!) a field goal attempt. Hopefully next year we can beat his ass during the first 58 minutes of the game so that last possession won't mean anything.

[ublinkwescore]

I don't know how many SB's Did Dough Williams win, how many SB's did Trent Dilfer win?? How many SB's did Kurt Warner win?? How many SB did Jay Schrader win?? I could go on, are all those QB's better then Marino too?? Were talking about the QB position, are you gonna tell me Marino wouldn't have won a SB in his prime with any of those Pat teams Brady's played for?? Give it up with every QB in the league is better then Marino stupidity.

maybe not all QBs in the league are/were better than Marino was, but one thing's for sure - all of them have/had more class.

[feelthepain]

Yes, I'm going to tell you that Marino would not have won a SB on those teams. Because when the chips were down, he was terrible.

Marino's post season QB rating: 77.1.
Brady's post season QB rating: 91.2.

Also, in his 17 year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl (not counting himself). Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins had five pro bowl players on the team. New England's first two Super Bowl teams had a TOTAL of five pro bowlers between them.

Uh, when did Marino ever have a team as balanced as Tom Brady??? And since when did you become psychic??? How many of Marinos prowlers were in the backfield?? Also Marino never had the D that Brady's had, the D for the Pats his three SB's played much better in the post seasons then they did in the regular season. Also, you are talking two different era's, when Marino was on his strongest teams Joe Montana and the 49'ers were a dynasty. There was no salary cap, so teams kept their players, year after year. The Pats are the only post FA team to win more then 2 SB's in a short period of time. Before FA, teams could dominate a decade, Pittsburgh in the 70's, San fran in the 80's, Dallas in the early 90's, just before the FA era. Marino was just unlucky enough to face the Walsh/ Montana MACHINE. BTW, You notice Elway couldn't win a SB until the combination was just right, you think Brady is better then Elway too?? Do you think Elway could have won in NE with the same team Brady had?? How about Favre???

[ublinkwescore]

Uh, when did Marino ever have a team as balanced as Tom Brady??? And since when did you become psychic??? How many of Marinos prowlers were in the backfield?? Also Marino never had the D that Brady's had, the D for the Pats his three SB's played much better in the post seasons then they did in the regular season. Also, you are talking two different era's, when Marino was on his strongest teams Joe Montana and the 49'ers were a dynasty. There was no salary cap, so teams kept their players, year after year. The Pats are the only post FA team to win more then 2 SB's in a short period of time. Before FA, teams could dominate a decade, Pittsburgh in the 70's, San fran in the 80's, Dallas in the early 90's, just before the FA era. Marino was just unlucky enough to face the Walsh/ Montana MACHINE. BTW, You notice Elway couldn't win a SB until the combination was just right, you think Brady is better then Elway too?? Do you think Elway could have won in NE with the same team Brady had?? How about Favre???

I was always under the impression that that was one of the things that always helped marino out - was a stout D (granted they always wear out in late november/december).

[feelthepain]

Great post. I'll assume the stats to be true. Brady is certainly one of the most clutch QBs I have seen in my lifetime. In a tight game, the last thing you want for your team is for Brady to have the ball last. He will do what it takes to win the game, even if it is (god forbid!) a field goal attempt. Hopefully next year we can beat his ass during the first 58 minutes of the game so that last possession won't mean anything.


Doe's BB get any credit for a gameplan?? Who's calling the plays??? if you have a good rushing attack does it it make throwing the ball eaiser?? What does Brady do to make the running game better?? If you have WR's that fight of the bumps at the LOS do the QB's numbers improve?? If your Oline if full of probowlers does the QB's job become eaiser?? If you have depth at the skill positions does that make the QB's job eaiser?? It sure seems to me there is a whole lot going on their that has nothing to do with Brady.

[feelthepain]

I was always under the impression that that was one of the things that always helped marino out - was a stout D (granted they always wear out in late november/december).


That was late in Marinos career, but he never had a running game...ever!!!!

[Ickybaluky]

Whatever.

Fact is Daunte Culpepper is the African-American answer to Drew Bledsoe. Looks pretty in the pocket, throws lots of deep passes and puts up big numbers against bad teams.

However, like Bledsoe, the league caught up to him. For all his numbers, a good team exposes him and it forces mistakes and sacks. If it isn't his interceptions, it is fumbles.

The funniest thing is the Dolphins traded for the guy when they could have had Drew Brees. They picked up Bledsoe, circa 2001. Now we get to watch and laugh while he consistently chokes in the clutch.

It should be fun.

[Philagape]

:homer:

[cocamide]

Doe's BB get any credit for a gameplan?? Who's calling the plays??? if you have a good rushing attack does it it make throwing the ball eaiser?? What does Brady do to make the running game better?? If you have WR's that fight of the bumps at the LOS do the QB's numbers improve?? If your Oline if full of probowlers does the QB's job become eaiser?? If you have depth at the skill positions does that make the QB's job eaiser?? It sure seems to me there is a whole lot going on their that has nothing to do with Brady.

Since you obviously spent so much time thinking of these questions (and they must be important because you use two question marks), I'll answer them one by one.

Doe's BB get any credit for a gameplan?
Yes he gets credit for a gameplan. But that only goes so far, you need people to execute the game plan, and this is what good players do; including quarterbacks!

Who's calling the plays?
I would think the offensive coordinator. Unless they're running no huddle during the two minute drill, then I would think it's Brady calling the plays at the line.

If you have a good rushing attack does it it make throwing the ball eaiser?
NE finished 12th in team rushing yards. Not really great. They finished better than Indy (18) and New Orleans (19), each of whom had some great production at the QB position this year. The #1 rushing team was Atlanta, and we know their QB didn't do well passing.

What does Brady do to make the running game better?
He creates a passing threat so that defenses can't just put eight men in the box. Teams do that when they know the QB sucks. Remember Joey Harrington vs. Bills Defense?

If you have WR's that fight of the bumps at the LOS do the QB's numbers improve?
I would think so. I don't think anyone here is going to argue that New England's wide receivers make Brady look good though. If you haven't noticed, they're not the cream of the crop. Imagine how sick it would be if your beloved Chambers played with Brady. Why didn't Chambers make Joey look like a super star? Because it takes more than just good skill guys, the QB has to be good too.

If your Oline if full of probowlers does the QB's job become eaiser?
Obviously. How many of NE's O-line went to the pro bowl this year? Is it zero?

If you have depth at the skill positions does that make the QB's job eaiser?
The only depth they have is the running backs. Dillon and Maroney are solid backs. As I said before, their WRs aren't that good.

[Philagape]

The 49ers kept the Phins out of the SB all those years :rofl:

[feelthepain]

Whatever.

Fact is Daunte Culpepper is the African-American answer to Drew Bledsoe. Looks pretty in the pocket, throws lots of deep passes and puts up big numbers against bad teams.

However, like Bledsoe, the league caught up to him. For all his numbers, a good team exposes him and it forces mistakes and sacks. If it isn't his interceptions, it is fumbles.

The funniest thing is the Dolphins traded for the guy when they could have had Drew Brees. They picked up Bledsoe, circa 2001. Now we get to watch and laugh while he consistently chokes in the clutch.

It should be fun.

Drew never threw more then 28 TD's in any season, In all his years as QB Drew never had a compl.% higher then 61%, he never had a QB rating higher then 88!!

Once again here are Daunte's 2004 stats.

4700 yards passing, 39 TD's 11 int's, 69.2 compl.%, 110 QB rating. Culpepper also had a higher compl. % then Brady in 3 other seasons and had a much higher QB rating in those seasons of 98 and 96. That's three seasons of near 100 or better QB rating he also had three season of 25 or more TD passes two 0ver 30 and we aren't talking about Daunte's rushing TD's, which he has 30, Bledsoe didn't even come close those numbers at any time in his career, in 13 years Bledsoe has around 250 TD's, in 6 years Daunte has around 170,BTW, Brady has 147 TD's so what the hell are you talking about???

[feelthepain]

The 49ers kept the Phins out of the SB all those years :rofl:

No, I said Marino was unfortunate to have had to face the Montana/Walsh machine in his only SB.

[feelthepain]

Drew never threw more then 28 TD's in any season, In all his years as QB Drew never had a compl.% higher then 61%, he never had a QB rating higher then 88!!

Once again here are Daunte's 2004 stats.

4700 yards passing, 39 TD's 11 int's, 69.2 compl.%, 110 QB rating. Culpepper also had a higher compl. % then Brady in 3 other seasons and had a much higher QB rating in those seasons of 98 and 96. That's three seasons of near 100 or better QB rating he also had three season of 25 or more TD passes two 0ver 30 and we aren't talking about Daunte's rushing TD's, which he has 30, Bledsoe didn't even come close those numbers at any time in his career, in 13 years Bledsoe has around 250 TD's, in 7 years Daunte has around 170, BTW, Brady has 147 TD's, so what the hell are you talking about???

[Devin]

Drew never threw more then 28 TD's in any season, In all his years as QB Drew never had a compl.% higher then 61%, he never had a QB rating higher then 88!!

Once again here are Daunte's 2004 stats.

4700 yards passing, 39 TD's 11 int's, 69.2 compl.%, 110 QB rating. Culpepper also had a higher compl. % then Brady in 3 other seasons and had a much higher QB rating in those seasons of 98 and 96. That's three seasons of near 100 or better QB rating he also had three season of 25 or more TD passes two 0ver 30 and we aren't talking about Daunte's rushing TD's, which he has 30, Bledsoe didn't even come close those numbers at any time in his career, in 13 years Bledsoe has around 250 TD's, in 6 years Daunte has around 170,BTW, Brady has 147 TD's so what the hell are you talking about???

And look where all those stats got him.

I know you love quoting stats both known and obscure alike. However if Daunte was wearing blue and red your argument would be reversed im sure.

The same Daunte who is 38-44 as a starter. The same Daunte responsible for 32 turnovers in one year. The same Daunte who averages almost 11 fumbles a season (and he only played 11 games the past 2 years :ill:) The same Daunte who had two of the greatest WR's ever to play back in Minny?

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

[feelthepain]

And look where all those stats got him.

I know you love quoting stats both known and obscure alike. However if Daunte was wearing blue and red your argument would be reversed im sure.

The same Daunte who is 38-44 as a starter. The same Daunte responsible for 32 turnovers in one year. The same Daunte who averages almost 11 fumbles a season (and he only played 11 games the past 2 years :ill:) The same Daunte who had two of the greatest WR's ever to play back in Minny?

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

And once again, as is Brady, Daunte is one on a team of 22.

[Devin]

And once again, as is Brady, Daunte is one on a team of 22.

You take Brady off the Pats they dont win 3 superbowls.

Daunte not only got traded, but was replaced in Minny by Brad friggin Johnson who turned Daunte's 2-5 start into a 9-7 finish.

You are right there is a big difference between Brady and Daunte. One knows how to win, regardless of the team around him or the stats he puts up.

[feelthepain]

Since you obviously spent so much time thinking of these questions (and they must be important because you use two question marks), I'll answer them one by one.

Doe's BB get any credit for a gameplan?
Yes he gets credit for a gameplan. But that only goes so far, you need people to execute the game plan, and this is what good players do; including quarterbacks!

Who's calling the plays?
I would think the offensive coordinator. Unless they're running no huddle during the two minute drill, then I would think it's Brady calling the plays at the line.

If you have a good rushing attack does it it make throwing the ball eaiser?
NE finished 12th in team rushing yards. Not really great. They finished better than Indy (18) and New Orleans (19), each of whom had some great production at the QB position this year. The #1 rushing team was Atlanta, and we know their QB didn't do well passing.

What does Brady do to make the running game better?
He creates a passing threat so that defenses can't just put eight men in the box. Teams do that when they know the QB sucks. Remember Joey Harrington vs. Bills Defense?

If you have WR's that fight of the bumps at the LOS do the QB's numbers improve?
I would think so. I don't think anyone here is going to argue that New England's wide receivers make Brady look good though. If you haven't noticed, they're not the cream of the crop. Imagine how sick it would be if your beloved Chambers played with Brady. Why didn't Chambers make Joey look like a super star? Because it takes more than just good skill guys, the QB has to be good too.

If your Oline if full of probowlers does the QB's job become eaiser?
Obviously. How many of NE's O-line went to the pro bowl this year? Is it zero?

If you have depth at the skill positions does that make the QB's job eaiser?
The only depth they have is the running backs. Dillon and Maroney are solid backs. As I said before, their WRs aren't that good.

Brady didn't make the probowl either this year, and by answering the questions above you confirm the fact that it's takes a complete effort to succeed. Not just a QB.

[feelthepain]

You take Brady off the Pats they dont win 3 superbowls.

Daunte not only got traded, but was replaced in Minny by Brad friggin Johnson who turned Daunte's 2-5 start into a 9-7 finish.

You are right there is a big difference between Brady and Daunte. One knows how to win, regardless of the team around him or the stats he puts up.

So if you put Manning or Brees or Favre or Elway or Marino or Plamer or McNabb or Roethlisburger on the Pats they wouldn't win the same three SB's?? I'll bet they do, because Brady wasn't the key to all the Pats success and even if he were, any of the QB's above are just as poised and smart and talented if not more then Brady.

Has Brady been on any other team? No! so how do you know what he would do in Detroit or Cleveland, my guess is fail because they are a lot more then a QB away from winning. And why did Brady last till the 6th round if he was such a stud? Because he's not, he's just in the right system.

[cocamide]

Brady didn't make the probowl either this year, and by answering the questions above you confirm the fact that it's takes a complete effort to succeed. Not just a QB.

Making the pro bowl doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. Tony Romo made the Pro Bowl, and he pretty much sucked that last 1.5 months. I agree, you need more than just a QB to succeed, Indy is a perfect example of that. Unfortunately, Brady deserves the credit he gets. I'm done arguing.

[feelthepain]

Making the pro bowl doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. Tony Romo made the Pro Bowl, and he pretty much sucked that last 1.5 months. I agree, you need more than just a QB to succeed, Indy is a perfect example of that. Unfortunately, Brady deserves the credit he gets. I'm done arguing.


Exactly my point, the QB gets too much credit for winning and too much blame for losing.

[cocamide]

So if you put Manning or Brees or Favre or Elway or Marino or Plamer or McNabb or Roethlisburger on the Pats they wouldn't win the same three SB's?? I'll bet they do, because Brady wasn't the key to all the Pats success and even if he were, any of the QB's above are just as poised and smart and talented if not more then Brady.

Has Brady been on any other team? No! so how do you know what he would do in Detroit or Cleveland, my guess is fail because they are a lot more then a QB away from winning. And why did Brady last till the 6th round if he was such a stud? Because he's not, he's just in the right system.

Ok, I just have to say one more thing. You put Roethlisberger in that group!? You must be smoking something good. That's a guy who was in the right system at the right time, and will never be back in the SuperBowl unless he's on a team that has an amazing defense and is only asked to throw the ball 15 times a game. He will not win games for his team like the other guys do.

[feelthepain]

Making the pro bowl doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. Tony Romo made the Pro Bowl, and he pretty much sucked that last 1.5 months. I agree, you need more than just a QB to succeed, Indy is a perfect example of that. Unfortunately, Brady deserves the credit he gets. I'm done arguing.

I don't consider it arguing, more like point/counterpoint.

[mybills]

If Brady is so clutch and so wonderful, why have the Pats not won, one single SB by more then 3 points???

:shortbus:
Because Vinateri was the real 'so clutch and so wonderful' in those SB's. :snicker:

[MikeInRoch]

Uh, when did Marino ever have a team as balanced as Tom Brady??? And since when did you become psychic??? How many of Marinos prowlers were in the backfield?? Also Marino never had the D that Brady's had, the D for the Pats his three SB's played much better in the post seasons then they did in the regular season. Also, you are talking two different era's, when Marino was on his strongest teams Joe Montana and the 49'ers were a dynasty. There was no salary cap, so teams kept their players, year after year. The Pats are the only post FA team to win more then 2 SB's in a short period of time. Before FA, teams could dominate a decade, Pittsburgh in the 70's, San fran in the 80's, Dallas in the early 90's, just before the FA era. Marino was just unlucky enough to face the Walsh/ Montana MACHINE. BTW, You notice Elway couldn't win a SB until the combination was just right, you think Brady is better then Elway too?? Do you think Elway could have won in NE with the same team Brady had?? How about Favre???

Marino TWICE during his career had the #1 defense with regards to scoring in the league. #1! What did he do with those years? Flushed 'em.

Yes, Elway and Farve could have won with that NE team as well. Because they both are better than Marino as well.

[MikeInRoch]

Of course, I might be biased - because seemingly every time I saw Marino play Buffalo, he stunk. After starting out his career 6-1 against Buffalo in the first 4 years, he went 8-18 the rest of the way, including 1-3 in the playoffs. Yuck.

[dplus47]

Of course, I might be biased - because seemingly every time I saw Marino play Buffalo, he stunk. After starting out his career 6-1 against Buffalo in the first 4 years, he went 8-18 the rest of the way, including 1-3 in the playoffs. Yuck.

i'm not trying to step into the middle of this one, because i think brady is far and away the best QB in the NFL, but i never understood why so many bills' fans say "marino was no good" or "marino wasn't clutch" when the one team that most often stood in his way was the bills? i mean, doesn't this mean, in a sense: "sure, we won all those AFC championships, but we didn't really face any competition..." i never understood that aspect of our fan culture, how we can elevate and demean ourselves at the same time by disrespecting opponents.

[Historian]

Not only is Brady much, much better than Culpepper, he's also much, much better than Marino ever was.

Agreed. Brady is this generation's Montana, as much as I loath saying it.

Culpepper's lucky anyone in the NFL was desperate enough to sign him...he belongs in Saskatchewan.

[Jeff1220]

Before FA, teams could dominate a decade, Pittsburgh in the 70's, San fran in the 80's, Dallas in the early 90's, just before the FA era. Marino was just unlucky enough to face the Walsh/ Montana MACHINE.


Really? I didn't know Marino was in the NFC?



I think the machine you are referring to that Marino couldn't get past was a team from a small northeastern town on the shores of Lake Erie. ;)