Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

[HHURRICANE]

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.

[Jeff1220]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

It seems to me that the last few times the Bills have decided to switch new schemes on either side of the ball, that they are on the tail end of a trendy scheme. The Bills switched away from the 3-4 to the 4-3/46 just a year or so before most team who ran that D switched out of it. The also switched to a West Coast O when many teams had already done it and Ds had been built to stop it. Now their O seems headed in a decent direction, but it seems that they are switching to the Tampa 2 when many teams are finding the 3-4 to best way to deal with current NFL offenses.

[mysticsoto]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

[Saratoga Slim]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

I agree. The tampa 2 is designed to take away the big play, limit the passing game, bend a little but not break. For the most part I think it worked this season, with the glaring exception of the fact that on the ground, it bent a lot more than it should. Keep in mind that this is the first year that we've been running it, and as you note we started 4 rookies. I'm willing to wait and see how a few personnel changes (DT and MLB) firm up the run defense. If it can improve to even a middle of the road run defense, we can win.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

If the Colts beat the Chargers than I'll retract my statement. Everything I have read is that the Tampa 2 is an easy D to gameplan against. I do agree that talent can make any scheme work. The problem is that it is usually the talent that makes the scheme in the first place. There would be no West Coast Offense without Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Take Warren Sapp out of the Tampa 2 and we would be running a 3-4 in Buffalo right now. It's usually the talent that makes the specific scheme thrive.

In the 80's we built are team around players like Bruce, Bennett, and Conlan. Who are the Bills building their D around now? Crowell and Schobel??

[OpIv37]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

I think the whole concept of the Cover 2 is flawed. As several of us have noted recently, NFL games are won by running and stopping the run. 4 undersized guys trying to get up the field for pass pressure can't stop 5 NFL linemen and an NFL running back with any regularity.

I had my doubts since last year, when the Bills first announced that they would be running this scheme. This season obviously showed why.

[mysticsoto]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

If the Colts beat the Chargers than I'll retract my statement. Everything I have read is that the Tampa 2 is an easy D to gameplan against. I do agree that talent can make any scheme work. The problem is that it is usually the talent that makes the scheme in the first place. There would be no West Coast Offense without Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Take Warren Sapp out of the Tampa 2 and we would be running a 3-4 in Buffalo right now. It's usually the talent that makes the specific scheme thrive.

In the 80's we built are team around players like Bruce, Bennett, and Conlan. Who are the Bills building their D around now? Crowell and Schobel??

And remember who coached and helped build that 80s team and who is in charge now of building our team...give it time. Rome wasn't built in a day. We got a good number of players that fit the scheme we are implementing, let's hope the job can be finished in this years FA and draft...

[mysticsoto]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

I think the whole concept of the Cover 2 is flawed. As several of us have noted recently, NFL games are won by running and stopping the run. 4 undersized guys trying to get up the field for pass pressure can't stop 5 NFL linemen and an NFL running back with any regularity.

I had my doubts since last year, when the Bills first announced that they would be running this scheme. This season obviously showed why.

I myself also prefer the big huge linemen ala Sam Adams and Pat Williams to stop the run, but I'm willing to give this a chance - especially since we've already began implementing the scheme. We certainly can't go around changing the scheme every year...and crying about what we should have implemented last year, is pointless and alot like crying over spilled milk. The scheme has been implemented and now we just have to ensure we get the correct personnel to make it work.

[BillsFever21]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

I don't see these guys changing. This is what they know and have always used. I doubt it will change until the day comes Jauron is fired.

I don't like this defense either. With all the teams that use this defense how many of them are having much success? I can only think of Chicago.

[OpIv37]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

I myself also prefer the big huge linemen ala Sam Adams and Pat Williams to stop the run, but I'm willing to give this a chance - especially since we've already began implementing the scheme. We certainly can't go around changing the scheme every year...and crying about what we should have implemented last year, is pointless and alot like crying over spilled milk. The scheme has been implemented and now we just have to ensure we get the correct personnel to make it work.

this is why these decisions are so important and why Tom Donahoe was such a failure. Coaches bring systems with them and if they're the wrong system, it's difficult if not impossible to change without changing coaches- and either way, it invokes the whole "learning curve" issue for the players.

I think Jeff1220 makes a good point about the Bills always being late in the game with these schemes. I just hope the Cover 2 isn't completely exposed before we get it implemented (see Kevin Gilbride's West Coast/Run and Shoot/Chuck and Duck offense).

I just hope Marv didn't make the same mistakes as TD by hopping the bandwagon seconds before it crashes into a ****ing guardrail.

[BillsFever21]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

The great coaches are the ones who can fit the talent they have on their team into a system that will play to their strengths. Not just have a designated system and try to have players fit that system.

That's what we did with the WCO. We didn't have the players to run it. It didn't work and we didn't have nearly enough time to get the players to run it before Williams was fired. Then when he got fired we were left with a bunch of players that didn't fit the system Mularkey wanted to use.

If Jauron fails and we start over again in a couple years or so we're left with a bunch of players that won't fit the system for the next coach.

Sure the big time stars like you Schobel, Clements and others it won't matter. They're just great players that will excel in any scheme. But your lesser players brought in like McCargo and others will probably be useless in another system installed.

What system does Bill Belichek run? There is no set system like a 46 or Tampa 2 on defense or a set system on offense. He takes the players he has and plays to their strengths.

[Philagape]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

Systems suck. What good is a coach who's a one-trick pony?

[alohabillsfan]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

If you look at the stats our D-line did pretty well in total tackles meaning we have 4 D-line players in the top 30, with Kelsay leading the pack at 61.

At Linebacker Fletcher is the leader at 146 next is Crowell at 82 in 12 games. Only 1 LB in the top 50. Chicago has 2 in the top 10! LB is where we need help IMO.

[OpIv37]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

If you look at the stats our D-line did pretty well in total tackles meaning we have 4 D-line players in the top 30, with Kelsay leading the pack at 61.

At Linebacker Fletcher is the leader at 146 next is Crowell at 82 in 12 games. Only 1 LB in the top 50. Chicago has 2 in the top 10! LB is where we need help IMO.

but where were those tackles by the DL? I remember several plays where Kyle Williams chased down the RB and tackled him after a 6 yard gain- I love how he never gives up on the play, but DT's making tackles 6 yards into the defensive backfield is why we lose football games.

these stats only tell part of the story.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

how much of the colts' cap is tied up to their O?