Tampa 2 is starting to scare me!!

[HHURRICANE]

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.

[Jeff1220]

It seems to me that the last few times the Bills have decided to switch new schemes on either side of the ball, that they are on the tail end of a trendy scheme. The Bills switched away from the 3-4 to the 4-3/46 just a year or so before most team who ran that D switched out of it. The also switched to a West Coast O when many teams had already done it and Ds had been built to stop it. Now their O seems headed in a decent direction, but it seems that they are switching to the Tampa 2 when many teams are finding the 3-4 to best way to deal with current NFL offenses.

[mysticsoto]

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

[Saratoga Slim]

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

I agree. The tampa 2 is designed to take away the big play, limit the passing game, bend a little but not break. For the most part I think it worked this season, with the glaring exception of the fact that on the ground, it bent a lot more than it should. Keep in mind that this is the first year that we've been running it, and as you note we started 4 rookies. I'm willing to wait and see how a few personnel changes (DT and MLB) firm up the run defense. If it can improve to even a middle of the road run defense, we can win.

[HHURRICANE]

And yet, look what the Colts D did to the Chiefs last week...just b'cse the normal prototype player for DT is small in Tampa 2 - doesn't mean they are ineffective...we just don't have the right personnel in certain positions - AND, we had lots of rookies last year who typically aren't as strong or knowledgeable as a seasoned veteran...give it time.

If the Colts beat the Chargers than I'll retract my statement. Everything I have read is that the Tampa 2 is an easy D to gameplan against. I do agree that talent can make any scheme work. The problem is that it is usually the talent that makes the scheme in the first place. There would be no West Coast Offense without Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Take Warren Sapp out of the Tampa 2 and we would be running a 3-4 in Buffalo right now. It's usually the talent that makes the specific scheme thrive.

In the 80's we built are team around players like Bruce, Bennett, and Conlan. Who are the Bills building their D around now? Crowell and Schobel??

[OpIv37]

I think the whole concept of the Cover 2 is flawed. As several of us have noted recently, NFL games are won by running and stopping the run. 4 undersized guys trying to get up the field for pass pressure can't stop 5 NFL linemen and an NFL running back with any regularity.

I had my doubts since last year, when the Bills first announced that they would be running this scheme. This season obviously showed why.

[mysticsoto]

If the Colts beat the Chargers than I'll retract my statement. Everything I have read is that the Tampa 2 is an easy D to gameplan against. I do agree that talent can make any scheme work. The problem is that it is usually the talent that makes the scheme in the first place. There would be no West Coast Offense without Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Take Warren Sapp out of the Tampa 2 and we would be running a 3-4 in Buffalo right now. It's usually the talent that makes the specific scheme thrive.

In the 80's we built are team around players like Bruce, Bennett, and Conlan. Who are the Bills building their D around now? Crowell and Schobel??

And remember who coached and helped build that 80s team and who is in charge now of building our team...give it time. Rome wasn't built in a day. We got a good number of players that fit the scheme we are implementing, let's hope the job can be finished in this years FA and draft...

[mysticsoto]

I think the whole concept of the Cover 2 is flawed. As several of us have noted recently, NFL games are won by running and stopping the run. 4 undersized guys trying to get up the field for pass pressure can't stop 5 NFL linemen and an NFL running back with any regularity.

I had my doubts since last year, when the Bills first announced that they would be running this scheme. This season obviously showed why.

I myself also prefer the big huge linemen ala Sam Adams and Pat Williams to stop the run, but I'm willing to give this a chance - especially since we've already began implementing the scheme. We certainly can't go around changing the scheme every year...and crying about what we should have implemented last year, is pointless and alot like crying over spilled milk. The scheme has been implemented and now we just have to ensure we get the correct personnel to make it work.

[BillsFever21]

I don't see these guys changing. This is what they know and have always used. I doubt it will change until the day comes Jauron is fired.

I don't like this defense either. With all the teams that use this defense how many of them are having much success? I can only think of Chicago.

[OpIv37]

I myself also prefer the big huge linemen ala Sam Adams and Pat Williams to stop the run, but I'm willing to give this a chance - especially since we've already began implementing the scheme. We certainly can't go around changing the scheme every year...and crying about what we should have implemented last year, is pointless and alot like crying over spilled milk. The scheme has been implemented and now we just have to ensure we get the correct personnel to make it work.

this is why these decisions are so important and why Tom Donahoe was such a failure. Coaches bring systems with them and if they're the wrong system, it's difficult if not impossible to change without changing coaches- and either way, it invokes the whole "learning curve" issue for the players.

I think Jeff1220 makes a good point about the Bills always being late in the game with these schemes. I just hope the Cover 2 isn't completely exposed before we get it implemented (see Kevin Gilbride's West Coast/Run and Shoot/Chuck and Duck offense).

I just hope Marv didn't make the same mistakes as TD by hopping the bandwagon seconds before it crashes into a ****ing guardrail.

[BillsFever21]

The great coaches are the ones who can fit the talent they have on their team into a system that will play to their strengths. Not just have a designated system and try to have players fit that system.

That's what we did with the WCO. We didn't have the players to run it. It didn't work and we didn't have nearly enough time to get the players to run it before Williams was fired. Then when he got fired we were left with a bunch of players that didn't fit the system Mularkey wanted to use.

If Jauron fails and we start over again in a couple years or so we're left with a bunch of players that won't fit the system for the next coach.

Sure the big time stars like you Schobel, Clements and others it won't matter. They're just great players that will excel in any scheme. But your lesser players brought in like McCargo and others will probably be useless in another system installed.

What system does Bill Belichek run? There is no set system like a 46 or Tampa 2 on defense or a set system on offense. He takes the players he has and plays to their strengths.

[Philagape]

Systems suck. What good is a coach who's a one-trick pony?

[alohabillsfan]

If you look at the stats our D-line did pretty well in total tackles meaning we have 4 D-line players in the top 30, with Kelsay leading the pack at 61.

At Linebacker Fletcher is the leader at 146 next is Crowell at 82 in 12 games. Only 1 LB in the top 50. Chicago has 2 in the top 10! LB is where we need help IMO.

[OpIv37]

If you look at the stats our D-line did pretty well in total tackles meaning we have 4 D-line players in the top 30, with Kelsay leading the pack at 61.

At Linebacker Fletcher is the leader at 146 next is Crowell at 82 in 12 games. Only 1 LB in the top 50. Chicago has 2 in the top 10! LB is where we need help IMO.

but where were those tackles by the DL? I remember several plays where Kyle Williams chased down the RB and tackled him after a 6 yard gain- I love how he never gives up on the play, but DT's making tackles 6 yards into the defensive backfield is why we lose football games.

these stats only tell part of the story.

[justasportsfan]

how much of the colts' cap is tied up to their O?

[mysticsoto]

this is why these decisions are so important and why Tom Donahoe was such a failure. Coaches bring systems with them and if they're the wrong system, it's difficult if not impossible to change without changing coaches- and either way, it invokes the whole "learning curve" issue for the players.

I think Jeff1220 makes a good point about the Bills always being late in the game with these schemes. I just hope the Cover 2 isn't completely exposed before we get it implemented (see Kevin Gilbride's West Coast/Run and Shoot/Chuck and Duck offense).

I just hope Marv didn't make the same mistakes as TD by hopping the bandwagon seconds before it crashes into a ****ing guardrail.

Understood. At some point I hope that as the players learn the system really well (especially our rookie safeties of which this system makes them such a big part of) that they will do some modifications such that it is not so vanilla and give other offenses a harder time to plan against...

[Lexwhat]

Chicago makes it work....

At the minimum, I think we are headed in the right direction. Give Marv another draft, and this off-season in free agency, and IMHO, it WILL improve greatly.

[Billsrock4life]

the colts D sucks because of the players they have on D, not the scheme they're running

[HHURRICANE]

I We certainly can't go around changing the scheme every year...and crying about what we should have implemented last year, is pointless and alot like crying over spilled milk. The scheme has been implemented and now we just have to ensure we get the correct personnel to make it work.


See I disagree here. We haven't tied up any talent yet in implementation. McCargo and Triplett can still play in other schemes. It's this season where we make a huge commitment to the the Tampa 2.

[Buckets]

Systems suck. What good is a coach who's a one-trick pony?

I agree, is the nickel package the Tampa 2? Why can't we use a big run stuffer in obvious run situations? We need to be flexible.

[X-Era]

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.son

Thats true, but I honestly think they are going to the SB this year. Its a hunch, but I think Peyton gets it done, finally.

Anyways, they also have made some questionable additions along the way on D. I think they have been to lopsided on O and that it has cost them cap space to properly address the D.

I look at moves like letting Mike Peterson go, sticking with Tripplett as the sole guy for so long, and the very questionable secondary.

Harper? Bethea? David?

Macklin never lived up to expectation, neither did Rob Morris.

Freeney is a stud but is far from a run stuffer with his size issue.

Point is, I dont think we can compare our Tampa 2 to Indy's due to a much different personnel landscape.

[Mahdi]

We are 2 players away from making this D work well and 3 from making it great. MLB and one more DT would make this D very effective. However if we got MLB, DT and DE (since Kelsay doesnt get consistent pressure on QBs) then the D will be great.

[BillsFever21]

the colts D sucks because of the players they have on D, not the scheme they're running

Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Cato June, Booger McFarland(old but still decent) Bob Sanders and Mike Doss. All of these guys suck?

When our defense was the best it's been in years under Gregg Williams and Jerry Gray they were good under the 46 and was even better when they moved away from the 46 into mostly a 4-3.

Williams was great at taking the talent we had and making them guys one of the best in the league during his tenure and a year afterwards they were still feeding off of his defense.

[BillsFever21]

Seems like with the Tampa 2 in this day of age you need great players at almost every position to be very effective. You can't have some issues at a couple positions or so and be dominant.

It's too hard to stack up at every position all at once let alone through an extended period of time. It's hard to lose a good player or two from the system and have somebody else step in and the defense to still be running at top notch.

A good defensive coach doesn't have to rely on one system. They can make adjustments to it when needed. This may be a good defense if we can get stacked at most of the positions. Good luck doing that and keeping it that way.

Look at the Bears. They are about the only Tampa 2 that is successful right now. They have Ogun, Harris, Urlacher, Vasher, Tillman, Briggs and Ricky Manning Jr.

They need all them great players for the system to be dominant. Look at them when they lost Tommie Harris. Just that one big loss on defense lowered their effectiveness.

What's gonna happen when we lose Clements and Fletcher this year? Our defense will be even worse. They may be replaced in time but not in the short term. Our defense will be even worse next year.

Look at Belicheck. They lose players every year and their defense is still top notch. They don't rely on a system that takes stars at more then half of the positions to be great and Belicheck can take what he has and make it work. He's not a one trick poney who is stuck doing one certain thing. During their SB year a 33 year old #3 WR was playing CB they were so depleted.

In the Tampa 2 you lose a couple decent players or so and your defense takes a big hit. When we lose 2 of our best players on defense next year this defense will even be that much worse. We won't be able to scheme around them losses.

Plus with the Tampa 2 it takes a great secondary and usually 3 good CB's are needed. I sure hope Clements comes back because if we're stuck with McGee as our #1 and then Kiwakue Thomas and Youboty/Draft pick as our Top 3 we are gonna be in serious trouble.

[madness]

How's the Colt's D doing lately?

[Michael82]

How's the Colt's D doing lately?
And the Bears D......

[OpIv37]

How's the Colt's D doing lately?

they gave up 34 points and got behind 21-3. Until we have an offense that can put up 38 a game, I don't think the Colts' D should be our model.

[Elminster]

they gave up 34 points and got behind 21-3. Until we have an offense that can put up 38 a game, I don't think the Colts' D should be our model.
The Bears gave up 14 and virtually shut down the most powerful offense in the league. Should we emulate them instead?

[alohabillsfan]

I think the whole concept of the Cover 2 is flawed. As several of us have noted recently, NFL games are won by running and stopping the run. 4 undersized guys trying to get up the field for pass pressure can't stop 5 NFL linemen and an NFL running back with any regularity.

I had my doubts since last year, when the Bills first announced that they would be running this scheme. This season obviously showed why.

Becasue we lost to, Chicago, Indy, SD, NE,... Please we where in all accept that Chicago blow-up! This team is getting better, sorry to disappoint you! Don't worry you can still watch ND lose to any decent team!


Because that worked so well for Minnesota! The Tampa 2 works because it's a law of averages... Take away the big play, make them have 12 play drives and sooner or later you stop them or they stop themselves, we are just 2-3 players away and should solidify it this off-season! Get your tickets now!!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

The Bears gave up 14 and virtually shut down the most powerful offense in the league. Should we emulate them instead?

we can try, but like I said in another thread- the Bears have the PERFECT personnel for the Cover 2. We'll never have that in Buffalo.

[OpIv37]

Becasue we lost to, Chicago, Indy, SD, NE,... Please we where in all accept that Chicago blow-up! This team is getting better, sorry to disappoint you! Don't worry you can still watch ND lose to any decent team!


Because that worked so well for Minnesota! The Tampa 2 works because it's a law of averages... Take away the big play, make them have 12 play drives and sooner or later you stop them or they stop themselves, we are just 2-3 players away and should solidify it this off-season! Get your tickets now!!!!!!!!!

I've said several times that this team is improving. The one notable exception, however, is the run D. We're 2-3 defensive linemen plus Clements' and Fletcher's replacements away from being good on D- that's a lot for one off-season.

Funny how you didn't mention the loss at home to the Jets or the losses to Tennessee and Detroit.

[feelthepain]

Aren't the Colts running this D? They are ranked last in D I believe. I'm afraid that we are going to Draft for this scheme only to find out later that it sucks! Everyone here is clamoring for big DT's to stop up the middle when this isn't the normal prototype player for Tampa 2. I hope Marv and Dick are rethinking this scheme all together. The article on ESPN insider that Fletcher was too small was a relief for me. I hope this is the general trend at OBD.

Indy has the smallest Dline in the league, they are also the fastest, however speed doesn't help against the run.

[feelthepain]

Seems like with the Tampa 2 in this day of age you need great players at almost every position to be very effective.


On a team like the Redskins the Tampa 2 may work because they're willing to spend the money to add the talent, the Bills aren't. The Bills need to be a 4-3 type of D.

[mysticsoto]

we can try, but like I said in another thread- the Bears have the PERFECT personnel for the Cover 2. We'll never have that in Buffalo.

Why never????

[OpIv37]

Why never????

1. It's tough to attract FA's to Buffalo, especially when the team isn't doing well. Freezing cold small markets are not attractive to NFL players with big egos.
2. The team has a lot of holes to fill- by the time we fill them all, other players will leave via FA/retire/become cap casualties, etc.
3. We're relying heavily on the draft, which means there's no guarantee the guy we need will be available and there's no guarantee the guy we get will be a success.

[madness]

they gave up 34 points and got behind 21-3. Until we have an offense that can put up 38 a game, I don't think the Colts' D should be our model.


Sure, if you look at the scoreboard they give up 34 to one of the league's top offenses. Is that the real story though? Patriots drove more than 70 yards twice and scored touchdowns on both but one was a stop on 3 and 1 and the ****ty Patriots fumbles into the endzone for a TD. The rest of their drives were less then 35 yards(4 drives over 21 yards and 5 drives under 15 yards) and they converted only 5 3rd downs the entire game. So we should blame the defense for the Colts ST breakdown, giving the Patriot's excellent field position? How about blaming them for Manning's pick returned for a TD?<!-- / message -->

[OpIv37]

And the Bills never have picks returned for TD's or ST breakdowns? You said it yourself- Indy's D gave up 2 70 yard drives. Right now, we don't have the offense to recover from that. Indy does.

Just because Chicago and Indy got to the SB with the Cover 2 doesn't mean it's the right system for the Bills and the personnel we have.

Think of how many teams had success with the West Coast offense or versions of it, yet it was a disaster when we tried it in Buffalo.

[snow1989]

My own probably faulty observation but:

Wouldn't it be nice to hire INNOVATIVE people ? Buddy Ryan's 46 defense was effective because it was unique,...teams had to adjust, but it took time and Buddy could add wrinkles. Later copycats were more easily dealt with because teams were used to seeing it......and that's Buff's problem with always being on the tail-end....people have seen it....there's nothing INNOVATIVE. We keep hiring retreads, or in some cases...no-treads. Granted, you have to have the right personnel, but it would certainly help to have an INNOVATIVE coach and some assistants, get the right people in and go for it....we always look so predictable

[madness]

And the Bills never have picks returned for TD's or ST breakdowns? You said it yourself- Indy's D gave up 2 70 yard drives. Right now, we don't have the offense to recover from that. Indy does.

Just because Chicago and Indy got to the SB with the Cover 2 doesn't mean it's the right system for the Bills and the personnel we have.

Think of how many teams had success with the West Coast offense or versions of it, yet it was a disaster when we tried it in Buffalo.

The scheme usually always ends up following the coaching tree. Fewell was taught by Smith, Smith by Dungy, and Dungy by Bud Carson. Practically every team has a form of the Tampa 2 in their playbook but these guys have made it into a philosophy. It's a philosophy that fits right into both Marv and Dick's own. Swarm and attack the ball. The more players around the ball, the better the chances of the D making something happen.

Obviously the majority in the organization felt we could make the switch to it or Fewell would have never been hired in the first place. Not to mention, it's ridiculous to criticize a system that has only been here a year and had as many as five rookies starting throughout the year.



On defense, Buffalo's 18th-ranked unit played respectable football despite coordinator Perry Fewell's masochistic youth movement. At various times, the Bills started four rookies and played a half-dozen with regularity.
The Bills struggled mightily stopping the run, giving up 141 yards per game to rank 28th. In too many games, the defense got run over in the fourth quarter and couldn't get the ball back for a chance for the offense to win it (five losses by three points or fewer). Only six teams faced more plays than Buffalo.
Still, Buffalo wound up a very encouraging 10th in the league in points allowed at 19.4 per game, and rookie safeties Donte Whitner and Ko Simpson led a pass defense that ranked seventh in yards allowed. That's a legitimate statistic because despite Buffalo's porous run defense, the Bills faced more passes than runs (513 vs. 476).
"(Shoring up the run defense) will be a priority for us, definitely, but part of it will be scheme, guys learning the scheme, hitting their fits, making the plays," Jauron said. "You have to be able to contain the run in our business. You can't let people freely run the ball and dominate you in that area. That being said, the bottom line will always be points scored and points allowed. Keep them out of your end zone, regardless of what happens, and you have a chance."
With the 12th overall pick in the draft and some $40 million in salary cap space, the Bills are in good shape to keep building on this year's modest taste of success.
The Bills are likely to let two key unrestricted free agents leave (cornerback Nate Clements and linebacker London Fletcher-Baker) and re-sign two (guard Mike Gandy and defensive end Chris Kelsay).
They will add a defensive tackle, a linebacker and a wide receiver through free agency or the draft, and they may throw some money at running back Willis McGahee to avoid the negativity of a brewing contract holdout.
Unlike a year ago when Levy was working on the fly, he's got the time to breathe, plot and attack the offseason.
"It's definitely a work in progress, absolutely," Levy said. "We have (some) materials and the foundation, but it's a work in progress, and there are improvements we need to make to get to where we want to go."

[kernowboy]

I'm not so sure we are that far away from having our own hybrid 4-3, 3-4 if we wanted to, switching as per how the opposition lined up.

Both Denney and Hargrove can be 3-4 ends, at tackle I think Tripplett and McCargo could also play end in the 3-4. Williams in a small NT, but don't the Pats, and the Steelers have a small NT who they rotate in with a bigger NT. All we need here is a big NT

Similarily at LB, Spikes and Crowell can play inside and can be backed by Ellison and DiGiorgio. Schobel and Kelsay can both play OLB at 260lbs and Haggan would also make a decent 4-3 OLB - I think Spikes could also play out here. We need there one LB and one NT which essentially what a load of posters are saying.

However if we are staying with a Tampa2 Defence, build it through the draft. Each Tampa2 has its own nuinsances and pecularities and it must be easier to bring in a rookie and coach them up, than a vet who has played it a different way, developed different habits and instincts which then have to be coached out of them

[OpIv37]

The scheme usually always ends up following the coaching tree. Fewell was taught by Smith, Smith by Dungy, and Dungy by Bud Carson. Practically every team has a form of the Tampa 2 in their playbook but these guys have made it into a philosophy. It's a philosophy that fits right into both Marv and Dick's own. Swarm and attack the ball. The more players around the ball, the better the chances of the D making something happen.

Obviously the majority in the organization felt we could make the switch to it or Fewell would have never been hired in the first place. Not to mention, it's ridiculous to criticize a system that has only been here a year and had as many as five rookies starting throughout the year.

if the system is flawed, it's flawed, regardless of how many rookies we had playing on D.

Answer me this: If the LB's participate in pass coverage and the DL is shooting gaps to penetrate, who's left to swarm runs or underneath passes? If the DE's are lining up wide (as Schobel did throughout the year and Freeney often does for Indy as well) and the LB's are helping in the pass, who's covering the hole on the offense's left side?

It doesn't seem like it's designed to swarm to me, especially when the DT's can't get to the QB.

This D is designed to stop the pass. It works if you have Chicago's personnel because they have the speed and talent to stop the run as well. It works if you have Indy's O that can put up 40 a game and force opponents to pass. It doesn't work if you're Buffalo and don't have either of those things.

[madness]

The Tampa 2 is a simple zone-base scheme that relies on speed. Each player is responsible for their designated area. If there is a hole, it's not the scheme's fault. The system is NOT flawed. If an ordinary person could find flaws in it, I highly doubt paid professionals would be using it.


if the system is flawed, it's flawed, regardless of how many rookies we had playing on D.

Answer me this: If the LB's participate in pass coverage and the DL is shooting gaps to penetrate, who's left to swarm runs or underneath passes? If the DE's are lining up wide (as Schobel did throughout the year and Freeney often does for Indy as well) and the LB's are helping in the pass, who's covering the hole on the offense's left side?

It doesn't seem like it's designed to swarm to me, especially when the DT's can't get to the QB.

This D is designed to stop the pass. It works if you have Chicago's personnel because they have the speed and talent to stop the run as well. It works if you have Indy's O that can put up 40 a game and force opponents to pass. It doesn't work if you're Buffalo and don't have either of those things.

Again, players are responible for their zones. The middle linebacker and the two safeties are required to cover deep thirds, which means the outside linebackers are assigned to cover the box and CB's cover the flats. Obviously, if it's a run they aren't going to drop back into coverage so that means they will play their gaps. A player adapts their gap according to the scenario in the game. The D-line and LB's need to be smaller the average but faster then average.

[OpIv37]

The Tampa 2 is a simple zone-base scheme that relies on speed. Each player is responsible for their designated area. If there is a hole, it's not the scheme's fault. The system is NOT flawed. If an ordinary person could find flaws in it, I highly doubt paid professionals would be using it.



Again, players are responible for their zones. The middle linebacker and the two safeties are required to cover deep thirds, which means the outside linebackers are assigned to cover the box and CB's cover the flats. Obviously, if it's a run they aren't going to drop back into coverage so that means they will play their gaps. A player adapts their gap according to the scenario in the game. The D-line and LB's need to be smaller the average but faster then average.



so, the system is incredibly vulnerable to the play fake because if the LB's come up to play the run, that leaves holes in their zone. It also leaves holes for running QB's (who are all the rage these days) because if the LB's drop back to pass, that leaves holes just past the LOS. And the LB's and DL better be LIGHTNING fast because if a 300 lb NFL OL gets even a finger on them, they're going down. It seems like an awful lot to ask.

You're asking 4 guys in the 240-290 range (6 if the LB's read run) to stop 5 NFL OL in the 290-330 range plus a TE or FB in the 260 range and a lightning fast RB from running the ball. That's flawed.

Plus, being undersized at LB and DL basically surrenders short yardage situations where there's no time to shoot the gaps. I ****ing HATE this D in 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 cuz it's AUTOMATIC for the offense- they NEVER stop it.

And don't even get me started on your "professionals are doing it- we shouldn't question it" mentality. Professionals also gave us the Gilbride/Mularkey "pass first" offenses and you saw how well that worked out.

[madness]

so, the system is incredibly vulnerable to the play fake because if the LB's come up to play the run, that leaves holes in their zone. It also leaves holes for running QB's (who are all the rage these days) because if the LB's drop back to pass, that leaves holes just past the LOS. And the LB's and DL better be LIGHTNING fast because if a 300 lb NFL OL gets even a finger on them, they're going down. It seems like an awful lot to ask.

You're asking 4 guys in the 240-290 range (6 if the LB's read run) to stop 5 NFL OL in the 290-330 range plus a TE or FB in the 260 range and a lightning fast RB from running the ball. That's flawed.

And don't even get me started on your "professionals are doing it- we shouldn't question it" mentality. Professionals also gave us the Gilbride/Mularkey "pass first" offenses and you saw how well that worked out.

They are still designated to their zone. If they abandon their zone or don't make a tackle in their zone then it's the player's fault NOT the scheme's fault. Read and react, it's part of football. Six teams are currently using the Tampa 2. The facts don't lie.

Know you are comparing a defensive scheme to human preference. Gilbride/Mularkey believed passing the ball would open the run. It doesn't mean the I-formation is flawed.

[OpIv37]

They are still designated to their zone. If they abandon their zone or don't make a tackle in their zone then it's the player's fault NOT the scheme's fault. Read and react, it's part of football. Six teams are currently using the Tampa 2. The facts don't lie.

Know you are comparing a defensive scheme to human preference. Gilbride/Mularkey believed passing the ball would open the run. It doesn't mean the I-formation is flawed.

Right the facts don't lie- we were 28th in run D and Indy was 32nd. And before you say that stats don't matter, both us and Indy lost games because we couldn't stop the run. It cost us a playoff berth and it cost Indy a first round bye and a home game.

The scheme is designed to stop the pass- it gets killed against the run, unless you're Chicago with the perfect personnel.

And it doesnt matter if a player still has zones on a short yardage situation- they're smaller than the opposing players and they're going to get blown off the ball. It IS the scheme's fault because the scheme requires smaller players who are useless in that situation.