Would You Trade 7 Draft Positions for a Season-Ending Win at Baltimore? [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Meathead

01-09-2007, 11:37 AM

--The Bills would never admit it, but losing their last game to Baltimore and finishing 7-9 was a good thing. It gave them the 12th overall pick in the draft. Eight teams wound up 8-8, and Buffalo could have been the ninth, if they'd won. In that case, Buffalo would've slipped all the way to 19th based on the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/9916844

the only people that must vote are doc and the guy who left me my favorite neg ever about this: oh crap it scrolled off but you know who you are it went something like this

No college for you I guess. You are pathetic and are the biggest idiot here. You can tell by the way you type. I don't know why I bother to neg you because you're so clueless you don't even know you have no idea what you're talking about. I'd tell you to just go away but I know you won't.
:lmao:

i mean its all true i just love the way you said it lolol

:rockout:

BAM

01-09-2007, 11:41 AM

Yah I would. 8-8 sounds much better to me!

Meathead

01-09-2007, 11:44 AM

do you realize how crazy that sounds lmao!

Devin

01-09-2007, 11:46 AM

the only people that must vote are doc and the guy who left me my favorite neg ever about this: oh crap it scrolled off but you know who you are it went something like this

That poster is as bad as a few others, he could be gone tomorrow and it wouldnt make a diff to anyone.

R. Rich

01-09-2007, 11:46 AM

Well, since I was there for that game............yes.

NJFINSFAN1

01-09-2007, 11:49 AM

As a fan of a team, you always want a win and nothing less!

Dr. Lecter

01-09-2007, 12:02 PM

You play to win the game!

RockStar36

01-09-2007, 12:04 PM

I'd prefer that they would have won the game, but in retrospect it helped the team in the draft. But who knows what a win at Baltimore would have done for the team going into next season.

ShadowHawk7

01-09-2007, 12:38 PM

I'd rather go 10-6, miss the playoffs, and have the 26th pick in this mediocre league, than lose three more times and have the 12th pick.

Tatonka

01-09-2007, 12:41 PM

being that we lost anyways.. i dont care now..

if you asked me before the game, i would say, win and take the later pick.. but now that we have pick 12.. i will keep it.

BAM

01-09-2007, 12:42 PM

do you realize how crazy that sounds lmao!
I'm pretty sure I think you sound just as crazy as what you think I do. Or something. :dizzy: :confused: :D

I'd take a win over any sort of draft position!

Marvelous

01-09-2007, 12:47 PM

I agree with Tatonka..I'ts irrelevant now.And i was very outspoken about WIN before the game...19 is still a good spot..but 8-8 has a nice ring to it...Hell it's .500....A win really changes my mood for the week..And a week 17 win carries!!

BAM

01-09-2007, 12:48 PM

Especially for 8-8!

kgun12

01-09-2007, 01:03 PM

I think this year the win would have been better for this team going into next year, but now that we lost I'll take the 12th pick any day! However look what happened last year, the same opinions were said about winning being more important than the draft position, but beating Cinncy dropped us from 4th (D. Ferguson) to Whitner. Not saying I don't like Whinter, but look at what Ferguson and Mangold did for the Jets this year. I say if you don't make the playoffs get yourself in the best posssible spot for the draft. I know the players and coaches don't look at it this way, and I wouldn't like it if they did. BUT from a purely fans point of view I'll take the 12th pick over the 19th, or the 4th over the 8th pick any day.

Dr. Lecter

01-09-2007, 01:05 PM

So are people willing to trade 2 wins for an even better spot? Or maybe 3 wins? 4 wins?

How many victories are you willing to give up to get a better draft position?

kgun12

01-09-2007, 01:10 PM

So are people willing to trade 2 wins for an even better spot? Or maybe 3 wins? 4 wins?

How many victories are you willing to give up to get a better draft position?

I see your point, and I understand the winning part good for the team and all, and I'm not sue I could anwser your question, but I do know that I would take D. Ferguson over Whitner everyday of the week and twice on Sunday! Hell I even like Whitner and think he will only get better, but a stud OL is a stud OL. They don't come around everyday. Just ask Mike Williams.

mysticsoto

01-09-2007, 01:14 PM

So are people willing to trade 2 wins for an even better spot? Or maybe 3 wins? 4 wins?

How many victories are you willing to give up to get a better draft position?

This is my position on this...if you can't make it into the playoffs - play rookies, and others to give them experience and try different things (schemes), etc. Experiment. Any win after the fact that you are shut out from the playoffs is useless. People can sit here and say, "Oh 8-8 would be alot better than 7-9" yeah, the 12th pick is also alot better than the 19th. And guess what, that one extra game that we could have won would have done nothing for us. While getting an impact player that might be gone by the 19th pick indeed does do something for us!!!

THATHURMANATOR

01-09-2007, 01:15 PM

I am glad we lost. I watched the game with a who cares attitude anyways. I think players should always play hard no matter what but once the team is eliminated I don't care if they win really. 7 spots can be good difference in talent available.

Dr. Lecter

01-09-2007, 01:21 PM

Next question:

How would any of you feel if a Bills player, coach or fornt office employee took a "I don't care" attitude?

Jeff1220

01-09-2007, 01:24 PM

I would take the win for sure. Ending the season on a win against a Super Bowl favorite at a game I attended and ending up 8-8 instead of 7-9 would be worth much more to the team and fans than a high pick that is always a gamble.

kgun12

01-09-2007, 01:25 PM

Next question:

How would any of you feel if a Bills player, coach or fornt office employee took a "I don't care" attitude?

I believe I answered this question in post #14

and I quote: "I know the players and coaches don't look at it this way, and I wouldn't like it if they did. BUT from a purely fans point of view I'll take the 12th pick over the 19th, or the 4th over the 8th pick any day.

Dr. Lecter

01-09-2007, 01:26 PM

This is my position on this...if you can't make it into the playoffs - play rookies, and others to give them experience and try different things (schemes), etc. Experiment. Any win after the fact that you are shut out from the playoffs is useless. People can sit here and say, "Oh 8-8 would be alot better than 7-9" yeah, the 12th pick is also alot better than the 19th. And guess what, that one extra game that we could have won would have done nothing for us. While getting an impact player that might be gone by the 19th pick indeed does do something for us!!!

I disagree the win does nothing. A growth of a team includes learning how to win and how to beat dominant teams. If the Bills could have won this game and scored say 20 points on the Ravens defense the future implications could be huge.

And, practically, how much difference is there between the 12th and 19th pick in the draft?

Dr. Lecter

01-09-2007, 01:27 PM

I believe I answered this question in post #14

and I quote: "I know the players and coaches don't look at it this way, and I wouldn't like it if they did. BUT from a purely fans point of view I'll take the 12th pick over the 19th, or the 4th over the 8th pick any day.

You did, but I want to see some other responses.

kgun12

01-09-2007, 01:32 PM

mysticsoto

01-09-2007, 01:54 PM

I disagree the win does nothing. A growth of a team includes learning how to win and how to beat dominant teams. If the Bills could have won this game and scored say 20 points on the Ravens defense the future implications could be huge.

And, practically, how much difference is there between the 12th and 19th pick in the draft?

There's a 7 pick difference between the 12th and 19th pick. That means the top guy you may want or need has 7 more chances of being taken by another team. A quick math refresher course should help you with these answers. :snicker:

RockStar36

01-09-2007, 01:57 PM

I think it was 2 years ago we won something like 6 out of 7 games at the end losing to Pittsburg in the last game. I think we went 4-12 the next year.

They were 5-11 the following year because they beat Cincy, @ Cincy, on X-Mas eve.

I'm sure that game pissed alot of people off as well. They could have been higher than 8th!!!

kgun12

01-09-2007, 02:04 PM

They were 5-11 the following year because they beat Cincy, @ Cincy, on X-Mas eve.

I'm sure that game pissed alot of people off as well. They could have been higher than 8th!!!

Oh I forgot, :oops: the Cinncy win cost us D. Ferguson!

01-09-2007, 02:19 PM

Well, since I was there for that game............yes.

Me too.

Meathead

01-09-2007, 02:45 PM

How many victories are you willing to give up to get a better draft position?
every game after being eliminated from playoff contention

unless i need a math refresher course i think that makes it 1

How would any of you feel if a Bills player, coach or fornt office employee took a "I don't care" attitude?
that would suck. i want them to try and win every game

i also want them to try to win future games by getting reps for younger guys who need the development

and if the playoffs are impossible i want them to try to win the game while boosting the reps of the younger guys

fortunately i think thats exactly what i got from the dick

I disagree the win does nothing. A growth of a team includes learning how to win and how to beat dominant teams. If the Bills could have won this game and scored say 20 points on the Ravens defense the future implications could be huge.
i dont know about huge but maybe significant

i can see it giving them a nice boost going into the offseason that lasts into the preseason. the question is whether thats enough to offset the improved draft position

i say no because the impact of that win disappears after the first game of next season while the impact of a better draft selection stays with the team for years

And, practically, how much difference is there between the 12th and 19th pick in the draft?
having a draft position X places lower means X fewer good prospects in your pool EVERY ROUND and especially round 1

in round 1 thats seven good prospects you now cannot pick to improve your team. and at 12 youre still in the running for one of the blue-chippers that could unexpectedly freefall like they sometimes do

its a much better pick imo and definitely greater than the boost of winning one game that has no status on your non-playoff appearance

jmo

RockStar36

01-09-2007, 02:50 PM

Oh I forgot, :oops: the Cinncy win cost us D. Ferguson!

Yep. But on that particular day I was happier than hell that they won. Just as I would have been had they beat the Ravens. Now that the game is almost two weeks old it's easy to sit back and talk about how it "technically" helped them for the draft.

It's a pretty ridiculous topic to be honest. But, welcome to the off-season.

THATHURMANATOR

01-09-2007, 03:02 PM

Next question:

How would any of you feel if a Bills player, coach or fornt office employee took a "I don't care" attitude?
Not an issue no head coach or player intentionally tanks anything. I am just saying I wasn't pissed when they lost. I would have been happy if they won also.

kgun12

01-09-2007, 03:03 PM

Yep. But on that particular day I was happier than hell that they won. Just as I would have been had they beat the Ravens. Now that the game is almost two weeks old it's easy to sit back and talk about how it "technically" helped them for the draft.

It's a pretty ridiculous topic to be honest. But, welcome to the off-season.

That being said there is nothing technical about it, beating Cinncy cost us D. Ferguson. I think as fan after we are eleminated for the playoffs, I could care less if we won another game. Again 4th pick is better than 8th and 12th is better than 19th.

kgun12

01-09-2007, 03:11 PM

Not an issue no head coach or player intentionally tanks anything. I am just saying I wasn't pissed when they lost. I would have been happy if they won also.

I think the word intentionally is very important here. I was watching the last week of the season and one of the explayers on the pregame show said that players not in the playoff hunt will subconsciously shut down after halftime, cause no player want to start the offseason hurt"! He didn't say this as a critism more more as a fact. No one else on the panel disagreed or rebutted it.

Besides I don't think this generation of players is bothered by losing or winning meaningless games or let's bothe them one way or another. All they care about is the money!

RockStar36

01-09-2007, 03:16 PM

Not an issue no head coach or player intentionally tanks anything. I am just saying I wasn't pissed when they lost. I would have been happy if they won also.

I agree. When they lost to Baltimore I wasn't to shocked or upset, compared to the other 8 losses.

Mitchy moo

01-09-2007, 06:38 PM

Remember we now draft 12th in every round so techincally we moved up 7 spaces everytime round as well. Our 2nd / 3rd rounder can easily be as good or better than our first because we are drafting early each round.

Bling

01-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Maybe from now on you can should play for draft picks. Tank every season like the Lions do or something.

sarcasm</SARCASM>

Stewie

01-09-2007, 08:23 PM

don137

01-09-2007, 08:35 PM

I agree with T. You go into a game ready to cheer your team onto to victory. The players should always try to win no matter what the circumstance. If the game was to played tomorrow knowing that it could effect the draft by 7 picks I still hope for and root for a victory but since it is in the past I'd take the 12 pick and forget the loss. But like I always say, its not where you draft. Its what you do with that pick that counts.

mysticsoto

01-09-2007, 09:17 PM

Everyone who picked no still hasn't learned, even though year after year it's always the same.

First round picks are a 50% success rate at best.

Baltimore is a good team, and you play to win (Thanks, Herm!)

WHy oh WHY would you want a "better pick" when you lost to get that better pick.

HELLO!?<object height="350" width="425">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IMk5sMHj58I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object>

Care to tell me what's the success rate of higher rated picks vs lower rated picks??? If it didn't matter, they wouldn't put the worst teams to pick 1st and the best teams to pick last!!!

Is their an instant guarantee of success on a high pick? No, the FO still has to do their homework and have to rely on good scouts to make good recommendations, etc. But the chances are higher to succeed when you can pick the player you want vs having a player you want gone and having to conform with what's left...

By the way, just to make it clear...I never said we go in and say, 'Hey guys, let's lose this game!" But as I mentioned in my initial post, you see what the rookies and backups that have not played much have to offer - and you use this to gauge who you are going to keep and who you'll get rid of.

How many people wish that Youboty had played most of that game so we could gauge better where he stands? I would have played him the entire game as #2 and McGee as #1. That would have helped me understand the impact of losing Clements and what I may need to do there. I would have sat out Fletcher to see what playing without him might be like, etc... There's a bunch of things that could have been tried to gauge better where some players stand...

Marvelous

01-09-2007, 09:46 PM

I disagree the win does nothing. A growth of a team includes learning how to win and how to beat dominant teams. If the Bills could have won this game and scored say 20 points on the Ravens defense the future implications could be huge.

And, practically, how much difference is there between the 12th and 19th pick in the draft?

Great post & P.O.V. My thoughts exactly...our 1st rounder is gonna be a stud @#12 or @#19...Maybe even @#19 we could get a guard we're 12 seems a tad early...

Bottom line for me is .500 means our season wasn't a total loss like a 5-11 season...And most importantly we have something to look forward to next year besides Schobel sacks and underachieving RB.Not thatthere's anything wrong with Schobel sacks :grin:

OT--What team is Tom Donahoe on now?
/curious..

Marvelous

01-09-2007, 09:54 PM

They were 5-11 the following year because they beat Cincy, @ Cincy, on X-Mas eve.

I'm sure that game pissed alot of people off as well. They could have been higher than 8th!!!

Not me! That game was awesome..The Mcgee game right?

I think the biggest debate here is what fans want once the playoffs are outta reach..wins or draft status..I want to win ESP the last game since it's the game that wills tick with me the offseason..<as with most people... We haven't seen the playoffs since forward lateral damnit! I cherish any & all Bills wins..

How many people wish that Youboty had played most of that game so we could gauge better where he stands? I guess i wish that..Because some fans like HHuricane have the hope that he could start & be something huge..I too hope that but..It's unlikely since CB's take more time to develope than many other positions like say WR & LB..See McGee..

But like I always say, its not where you draft. Its what you do with that pick that counts. BINGO! theres always plenty of players in teh top 10-15 that are mediocre -to- average at best...

Ingtar33

01-09-2007, 11:00 PM

kgun12

01-10-2007, 12:39 AM

I'd rather draft at 12 then 19, obviously. if you look at it objectively.

However, I'm a fan. I'd much rather go 8-8 then 7-9, and would have rather ruined balt's day, then watched our team lose.

so i voted yes

So your saying professionally you would rather draft 12 than 19, but as a fan you want to win! :huh: That is confusing, I would have tought it the other way around. As a fan once I gain nothing from the win I would want the better draft pick. By June most people would not be able to tell you our record, but can tell you who we drafted in the fist round!

mysticsoto

01-10-2007, 08:16 AM

So your saying professionally you would rather draft 12 than 19, but as a fan you want to win! :huh: That is confusing, I would have tought it the other way around. As a fan once I gain nothing from the win I would want the better draft pick. By June most people would not be able to tell you our record, but can tell you who we drafted in the fist round!

Exactly.

Me personally, that last game I would have loved to see Youboty play and see what he has to offer - not to mention giving him some game time experience. I would have sit Fletcher down and played someone else in the middle and see how that worked out. On the Oline, I would have played Aaron Merz. How far has his development come along? What about Brad Butler? Can Tutan Reyes play RG?

All new scenarios that we've never tried, but that could serve to answer whether: a) we should move someone into a position, b) hold them b'cse they are not ready but still have potential, or c) dump them b'cse they show no signs of improvement.

Winning or losing the game then becomes unimportant as you evaluate the new personnel additions. Evaluations in a real game should be worth more than an evaluation in a controlled training exercise. And if we lose and get a better draft pick in the process, that's icing on the cake for performing an important evaluation of where some of our bench players stand!

Dr. Lecter

01-10-2007, 08:20 AM

Winning and losing is never unimportant.

mysticsoto

01-10-2007, 08:39 AM

Winning and losing is never unimportant.

Then allow me to rephrase:

Evaluating members on one's team that may be called upon to play full time next year in a REAL game situation and giving them game time experience - coupled with the possibility of obtaining a higher pick that may allow to obtain higher impact young players for our team than we might have access to at a lower draft pick, in my opinion outweighs a meaningless game that does nothing for us next year or any year thereafter. On the other hand, obtaining the right player we want in the draft could affect us for years to come!

BAM

01-10-2007, 08:40 AM

Stewie

01-10-2007, 08:41 AM

BAM

01-10-2007, 08:43 AM

Gain nothing by the win?

HELLO?! YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME

lol

This thread is hilarious!

Stewie

01-10-2007, 08:43 AM

mysticsoto

01-10-2007, 08:56 AM

The idea of "evaluating" new players is BS.

How can you determine how ashton youboty really would play if all the supporting players are also scrubs?

They would all need to be rotated individually, along with the other 10 starters on that side of the ball, to see how they would truly play.

Doing that, you'd get a few plays at most with each rookie you want to evaluate in the game. How is that telling you anything of value?

Here's an idea: beat the #2 team in the conference and gain the confidence to know that your team can run with the best, even when it "doesn't matter"
B'cse you get to watch film later...Was Youboty where he should be? Did he stick with his WR adequately? Did he gain too much distance? What moves/feints/double moves, etc did the WR put on him and was he able to stick with him? Did he bite? What moves was he more susceptible to?

We don't have 52 other players to substitite so don't make it sound as if it'd be a whole different team - same team with a FEW key positions with different personnel! By your standard of reasoning above, evaluations are useless all the time then - after all, preseason games have different people playing all the time.

On the other hand, okay, let's say we beat the #2 team in the conference. Next year, that counts for what? Zilch! Nada! Completely forgotten! How about the year after that? You'll be asking yourself..."uhhh...who did we play at the end of 2006???" Every position you get a chance to move up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player. 7 positions is not just 1 or 2 jumps up either!!! It is a considerable amount. It allows us to move almost to the top 1/3 instead of being close to the bottom 3rd!

But let's not forget the reality of what happened...we lost. So not only did we not get to give time to some key players that may be needing some experience on the field. We didn't even achieve our goal of winning...well, atleast we got the better draft pick...but we could have also given those players the field experience that they desperately need to become better players.

Those of you arguing for winning the game better have your mouths shut next year if Youboty plays and looks like McGee did when he 1st started...

Michael82

01-10-2007, 09:19 AM

Gain nothing by the win?

HELLO?! YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME
:bf1:

I'd take a win anyday because the draft is always a crapshoot. Look at how many times the playoff teams get good players at the end of the first round and sometimes even better than the teams who finished with a losing record. With a young team like we have, going into next season, just finishing out 8-8 would have helped boost their confidence a bit more and gone a long way IMO.

BAM

01-10-2007, 09:23 AM

Another great post, Mike.

It's hit or miss with drafts anymore. What position was Tom Brady selected in again?

Yah...

Michael82

01-10-2007, 09:29 AM

Another great post, Mike.

It's hit or miss with drafts anymore. What position was Tom Brady selected in again?

Yah...
Thanks. :up:

What round was the defensive rookie of the year drafted in? DeMeco Ryans was drafted in the 2nd round. Leon Washington was drafted in the 4th round. It's all a crap shoot.

Stewie

01-10-2007, 09:31 AM

B'cse you get to watch film later...Was Youboty where he should be? Did he stick with his WR adequately? Did he gain too much distance? What moves/feints/double moves, etc did the WR put on him and was he able to stick with him? Did he bite? What moves was he more susceptible to?

We don't have 52 other players to substitite so don't make it sound as if it'd be a whole different team - same team with a FEW key positions with different personnel! By your standard of reasoning above, evaluations are useless all the time then - after all, preseason games have different people playing all the time.

On the other hand, okay, let's say we beat the #2 team in the conference. Next year, that counts for what? Zilch! Nada! Completely forgotten! How about the year after that? You'll be asking yourself..."uhhh...who did we play at the end of 2006???" Every position you get a chance to move up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player. 7 positions is not just 1 or 2 jumps up either!!! It is a considerable amount. It allows us to move almost to the top 1/3 instead of being close to the bottom 3rd!

But let's not forget the reality of what happened...we lost. So not only did we not get to give time to some key players that may be needing some experience on the field. We didn't even achieve our goal of winning...well, atleast we got the better draft pick...but we could have also given those players the field experience that they desperately need to become better players.

Those of you arguing for winning the game better have your mouths shut next year if Youboty plays and looks like McGee did when he 1st started...

Please don't try and compare the last game of the regular season to a preseason game.

Are you suggesting that playing yoboty would magically have made his 'rookie' on the field struggles vanish?

"Every position you get a chance to move up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player." Really? Where is your proof? I want to see a statistical analysis of "impact" players and where they were drafted in their round.

We might have lost, but at least we lost giving our best effort from our best players. Playing to "evaluate" so you can get a better draft pick is a losers mentality, and it always will be.

If a player slips from the bottom of a round to the top of the next round, does that mean that the worst NFL teams had a "better" shot at an "impact player"?? Maybe. It also means the better NFL teams decided to pass on him when they had the chance.

Not one drafted player has ever come into a situation that year and led his team to greatness. The closest was probably Randy Moss.

So I will never understand "lose now so you can win later." Why the bloody hell wouldn't you just try and win now, and later, and forever????

mysticsoto

01-10-2007, 10:23 AM

Please don't try and compare the last game of the regular season to a preseason game.

Are you suggesting that playing yoboty would magically have made his 'rookie' on the field struggles vanish?

"Every position you get a chance to move up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player." Really? Where is your proof? I want to see a statistical analysis of "impact" players and where they were drafted in their round.

We might have lost, but at least we lost giving our best effort from our best players. Playing to "evaluate" so you can get a better draft pick is a losers mentality, and it always will be.

If a player slips from the bottom of a round to the top of the next round, does that mean that the worst NFL teams had a "better" shot at an "impact player"?? Maybe. It also means the better NFL teams decided to pass on him when they had the chance.

Not one drafted player has ever come into a situation that year and led his team to greatness. The closest was probably Randy Moss.

So I will never understand "lose now so you can win later." Why the bloody hell wouldn't you just try and win now, and later, and forever????

It is unfathomable that you can't see that *ANY* field experience given to Youboty will make him that much better of a player next year. Does that really need an explanation behind it???

It all comes down to one thing...winning a game after you are eliminated from playoffs does NOTHING for you. Until you can understand that, it is useless for me to say anything else.

BAM

01-10-2007, 10:45 AM

Nothing?

How about confidence? Respect? Pride? Not interested in any of those ideals?

kgun12

01-10-2007, 10:49 AM

Gain nothing by the win?

HELLO?! YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME

The sentence refers to drafting position. I have never played anything were I didn't try to win. There are probably people here as competitive as me, but I would bet there aren't many more competitive. Having said that, if you read one of my earlier posts I would NEVER want the players or coaches to tank a game, but as a fan when the outcome doesn't have any barring on a playoff position, I will take the higher draft pick. Yes it is a crap shoot, but the higher the pick, the more crap there is to shot! :dance:

Dr. Lecter

01-10-2007, 10:52 AM

And the more the pick costs.......

kgun12

01-10-2007, 10:57 AM

Nothing?

How about confidence? Respect? Pride? Not interested in any of those ideals?

Again I refer back a couple of seasons ago, after we lost to Pittsburg. We had won like 6 of 7 games and everyone was excited about the next season cause of our great finish. The next year we were 5-11. Missed out on D. Ferguson by beating Cinncy. So not only did all that winning not help our confidence, give us resect or pride, we won a game that cost us a much needed player. I bet the JEts are glad we beat Cincy. Because D'Brick has helped them regain their confidence respect, pride.

Dr. Lecter

01-10-2007, 10:59 AM

And maybe we will miss out on drafting Mike Williams and get Dwight Freeney instead.

BAM

01-10-2007, 11:00 AM

I'd love to see a player's response to this question.

I'm guessing they'd disagree strongly with some of you.

mysticsoto

01-10-2007, 11:06 AM

And maybe we will miss out on drafting Mike Williams and get Dwight Freeney instead.

Well what the hell...why don't we just let everyone go ahead of us and pick last. Apparently, you don't think it makes a difference...

kgun12

01-10-2007, 11:10 AM

I'd love to see a player's response to this question.

I'm guessing they'd disagree strongly with some of you.

Again I would not want the players and coaches to ever tank or think like this! However as a fan of the Bills, if I had the choice, I'll take the higher draft choice over one more win.

Stewie

01-10-2007, 11:13 AM

It is unfathomable that you can't see that *ANY* field experience given to Youboty will make him that much better of a player next year. Does that really need an explanation behind it???

It all comes down to one thing...winning a game after you are eliminated from playoffs does NOTHING for you. Until you can understand that, it is useless for me to say anything else.

Yea. You're right. A kid playing his first NFL start will have about 40 more snaps of experience if he plays a lot. And just maybe he'll see something he didn't see in the previous 15 years of playing football and correct every mistake the first time next year so he plays a perfect season.

And maybe he'll get shot by a thug after partying with his friends.
And maybe the #12 first round "impact" player is the first rookie to lead his team to a super bowl victory ever.
And maybe the first round "impact" pick is a bust.
And maybe the 19th slot is easier to trade out of because some team with 25 wants the player at 19.
And maybe the price for the 12 is too high, and you can't get more picks. Or maybe you get more.
And maybe the first rounder(s) you draft will likely have a 50% success rate. Well, maybe prolly, you know?

It comes down to you thinking losing a regular season game against the second best team in the conference means "NOTHING". I disagree and until you can understand that, it is useless for me to say anything else.

kgun12

01-10-2007, 11:15 AM

Oh and BTW in the age of free agency, I would take an OL, DL and maybe a CB in the first round almost every year. RB's are a dime a dozen with a good line, QB's are 3-4 years from beening any good, if ever, and for God sakes it's laughable when I read about taking a TE in the first round ie. all the Davis talk last year.

kgun12

01-10-2007, 11:34 AM

It comes down to you thinking losing a regular season game against the second best team in the conference means "NOTHING". I disagree and until you can understand that, it is useless for me to say anything else.

Do you eally think the players care about any of that, seriously? Listen to an interview after a game, they don't know who they play the following week or who they played the week before. During the interview with Tressell after the Florida game he said when a team put up 43,44 points on you and you only score whatever we scored I think you got beat pretty good. This generation of players are different, my son lost in the state semi finals a couple years back, 10 minutes after the game the whole team was asking where they were all eating. This year his college team lost the last game of the season, which cost them the conference championship, they all walked off the field very dissappionted, but by the time they showered and came to the clubhouse all they cared about was what was on the buffet. I'm not saying they don't care, but they don't care like us crazed fans do, we live and die with a win or lose. It's is documented that NFL cities productivey depends on the outcome of Sundays game. The players don't have the attachment to the game like we do. Do you know what I'm trying to say here? I hope it made sense.

BTW this is everyone's opinion, I don't understand why some of you are getting so upset. It's a discussion and we are not going to change any of our opinions on this subject, so enjoy the debate, both sides have made some good points, and I agree with some of the things you have said. I just think we agree to disagree.

Stewie

01-10-2007, 11:39 AM

I agree with Kgun that some players won't care, and I can't think of a better predictor than using your gametape to see which of your best players are mailing it in.

TigerJ

01-10-2007, 11:52 AM

It is easy to say, looking back, that it's better for the Bills to be drafting 12th than 19th, but there are also ongoing benefits to having beaten a team like Baltimore going into the offseason. I'm not unhappy with the higher draft spot, but I would trade it for the extra win.

kgun12

01-10-2007, 12:02 PM

Jimbuktu

01-10-2007, 03:36 PM

being that we lost anyways.. i dont care now..

if you asked me before the game, i would say, win and take the later pick.. but now that we have pick 12.. i will keep it.

B-I-N-G-O

BillsFever21

01-11-2007, 03:08 AM

A few years back we beat the Panthers in a useless game that gave us 3 wins instead of 2.

If we lose that game we end up with Julius Peppers. Instead Carolina ends up with Peppers and we end up with Mike Williams.

Yeah that one extra victory towards the end of the year was major for the devolpment of our team.

I'm glad we didn't beat Baltimore because then I would've been that much more pissed off knowing we would've made the playoffs if our coaches didn't piss the game away and especially the last drive a week earlier against the Titans.

mysticsoto

01-11-2007, 10:46 AM

Yea. You're right. A kid playing his first NFL start will have about 40 more snaps of experience if he plays a lot. And just maybe he'll see something he didn't see in the previous 15 years of playing football and correct every mistake the first time next year so he plays a perfect season.

And maybe he'll get shot by a thug after partying with his friends.
And maybe the #12 first round "impact" player is the first rookie to lead his team to a super bowl victory ever.
And maybe the first round "impact" pick is a bust.
And maybe the 19th slot is easier to trade out of because some team with 25 wants the player at 19.
And maybe the price for the 12 is too high, and you can't get more picks. Or maybe you get more.
And maybe the first rounder(s) you draft will likely have a 50% success rate. Well, maybe prolly, you know?

It comes down to you thinking losing a regular season game against the second best team in the conference means "NOTHING". I disagree and until you can understand that, it is useless for me to say anything else.

Oh please. The difference between what I advocate and what you advocate is that mine has an effect on future years while your position does not.

Fundamentally, if you believe that picking 19th is "just as good" as picking 12th...then you're already a lost cause. Picking higher in the draft is ALWAYS better. That's why the worst team gets to do it 1st. Now if you don't take advantage of your higher pick position that's on you...but don't equate flops or weird/unusual circumstances as reasons for disowning an advantage that is presented by picking earlier.