What is gonna be the Bills first news this offseason?

[BILLSROCK1212]

So what do you see it being? Will we sign a big name free agent or will a game in Europe be the first big news for the Bills this offseason?

[OpIv37]

first big news: some other team signs Nate Clements

[Devin]

Likely.

Or the Bills letting Fletcher hit the market.

[OpIv37]

I think we lose both Fletch and Nate. Fletch already made it clear that he doesn't want to be back, plus he signed with Rosenass. And Nate's going to whoever shows him the money, and I seriously doubt that it'll be us (not that Marv won't try, but someone else will offer more).

[Devin]

I think we lose both Fletch and Nate. Fletch already made it clear that he doesn't want to be back, plus he signed with Rosenass. And Nate's going to whoever shows him the money, and I seriously doubt that it'll be us (not that Marv won't try, but someone else will offer more).

If this team addresses DT in FA then drafts a replacement at LB I wont feel as bad.

I do stress the AS bad.

[DraftBoy]

New Willis McGahee contract demands on an extension or he'll hold out...

[OpIv37]

New Willis McGahee contract demands on an extension or he'll hold out...

I hope he does do that so both him and Rosenhaus will look like the asses that they are.

McGahee acts like he's LT. Apparently no one told him that there are tons of RB's who can get under 1000 yards in a season and one is already on our roster. And if he does sit, who's gonna show him the money after a sub-1000 yard season and a holdout? Right now, the Bills have him by the balls and it's great.

[tampabay25690]

I dont think Nate or London will be back....I see the Bills going out and getting a starting Guard, and LB, would like them to go out and get a bigger possesion WR as well.....The Bills have plenty of $$ to spend after both those guys are gone...

[clumping platelets]

Bills re-sign DE Chris Kelsay

[BillsFever21]

We can't afford Clements. We're only 35 million under the salary cap.

[Jan Reimers]

We trade Willis McGahee for two cracked helmets and a blocking sled - and its universally agreed that we got the better end of the deal.

[X-Era]

So what do you see it being? Will we sign a big name free agent or will a game in Europe be the first big news for the Bills this offseason?

I think it will be the resigning of Kelsay. I could see the Bills signing him since hes cheap and already here.

Next I think both Clements and Fletcher go into FA. So I think our first signing will be a LB, Lance Briggs makes sense since hes a Jauron guy. But he does play OLB rather than ILB. Cato June, another OLB FA, had 142 tackles but Indy ranks dead last against the run. At 6' 0", some may wonder if hes another Fletch.

I think its Briggs to be honest.

[Night Train]

Nall demands to be traded to the Hamilton Ti-Cats

[X-Era]

Bills re-sign DE Chris Kelsay

I didnt read your post before making my prediction. Great minds think alike!

Its a cheapo move, so yeah I can see it.

[BillsNick]

Willis is the subject of yet another paternal suit.

[Historian]

You already had it guys.

Goodell promised to help the small markets.

:up:

[kernowboy]

We sign Villarial's replacement straight away someone like

David Diehl NYG (not sure if he's a FA - he's listed by some, not by others)
Vince Manuwai - Jaguars
Kris Dielman - Chargers

[OpIv37]

We can't afford Clements. We're only 35 million under the salary cap.

we have a bunch of guys to re-sign and someone else will outbid us.

Besides, why should we overpay for him just because we have the money? If Bill Gates wants to buy a Lexus, should he have to pay Porsche money for it just because he can afford it?

We may have some cap space to work with this year, but we won't have it every year and we need to be careful with this one.

[patmoran2006]

New Willis McGahee contract demands on an extension or he'll hold out...

Exactly one hundred percent right.

Well some stuff will happen before that, but sooner or later this IS going to happen..

and I say **** him.

[bigbub2352]

Can anyone tell me when the last time Nate Clements made an INT or a play for that matter that was game changing or a clutch stop that prevented a team from gettin a first down, he might be one of the best FA available but he is not worth the money we will get, same with Fletch, when is the last time he made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage or blitzed and actually got to a QB, spend the money on signing a difference maker,
I hope the first news of the offseason is that we out bid a team for Eric Steinbech, that is what i think would be the best FA signing we could possibly make

[patmoran2006]

I think it will be the resigning of Kelsay. I could see the Bills signing him since hes cheap and already here.

Next I think both Clements and Fletcher go into FA. So I think our first signing will be a LB, Lance Briggs makes sense since hes a Jauron guy. But he does play OLB rather than ILB. Cato June, another OLB FA, had 142 tackles but Indy ranks dead last against the run. At 6' 0", some may wonder if hes another Fletch.

I think its Briggs to be honest.

I hope your wrong--and here is why.

Yes, Kelsay is a pretty good pass rusher-- AND he would be cheaper than some other defensive ends.

however- Hargrove and Denney can fill that role, and I dont think ANY of them should be the starter opposite Schobel.

IMO- We need a new starter at DE- someone who is much more capable of stopping the run. Kelsay, Hargrove and Denney are all horrid at run stopping- and I cant express how important it is that we change that.

I know the consensus was Marv would sign and draft defense last year and go to offense this year..

But we still need help defensively ESPECIALLY assuming we lose Nate and Fletch.. I think both replacements have to come via free agency.. Not necessarily for the same money or talent- but two players who will fit into the system real well.

Then of course you have the possibility that Spikes will not be good ever again.. When you add that up with a front four weak against stopping the run- there is still a lot of work to do.

ANyway, to stick to the point- I hope they dont resign Kelsay.

[BillsNick]

Can anyone tell me when the last time Nate Clements made an INT or a play for that matter that was game changing or a clutch stop that prevented a team from gettin a first down, he might be one of the best FA available but he is not worth the money we will get, same with Fletch, when is the last time he made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage or blitzed and actually got to a QB, spend the money on signing a difference maker,
I hope the first news of the offseason is that we out bid a team for Eric Steinbech, that is what i think would be the best FA signing we could possibly make

Are you serious?!?! He played phenomenal for the whole 2nd half of the season! Talk about clutch. He was easily our best defender.

Having said that, he is not worth what another team is going to pay him, which will likely be the Redskins, who are notorious for overpaying people.

[gil]

I think we extend Evans - if he puts up numbers again this year, he will command a ton of money.

[BillsFever21]

we have a bunch of guys to re-sign and someone else will outbid us.

Besides, why should we overpay for him just because we have the money? If Bill Gates wants to buy a Lexus, should he have to pay Porsche money for it just because he can afford it?

We may have some cap space to work with this year, but we won't have it every year and we need to be careful with this one.

This is the going rate for a CB the caliber of Clements. It seems like every player that gets paid people here consider them "overpaid" when it's their market. Every player that gets a big contract is overpaid.

These are the types of contracts your stud players get in this day of age after the new CBA. If you never wanna pony up the money then you will never get stud players to re-sign or through FA.

If you don't wanna pony up the money then you're left with a bunch of cheap signings last year with a bunch of average players that didn't make any major impact on our team.

If you don't pony up the money then you sure the hell better ace all of your drafts and have a great coach that can overcome lack of talent like Bill Belichek. Unfortunately Jauron isn't that coach.

If you happy with 7-9 wins every year or maybe sneak in a playoff slot once in a while just to get torn apart in the 1st round then I guess we shouldn't pony up the money. If you want to consistently have a good team that can make the playoffs and compete for a SB then you need to pay the good players.

Four years ago or so you could get a great player for 3-5 million a year. Our franchise was willing to pay that. Now them same players cost 7+ million a year and our franchise probably won't pay for them players. Now for 3 million or so a year you can only get players like Robert Royal and Peerless Price. Them are the only types of players we're gonna end up with.

I gurantee you every stud player who signs a new contract in the future will be considered overpaid. Are the overpaid? They sure are. Nobody deserves that kind of money and especially the pay raises that we've seen over the last couple years. Every year the players want a raise like their making 40k a year like the average american. They need to have a limit somewhere. This isn't the case though.

A few years ago the biggest contracts awarded seem like an unthinkable amount. Now them contracts seem like a reasonable price compared to what they're getting now and in 3 more years contracts that guys like Clements will get this year will seem cheap compared to what they will be getting then.

You either pay the money for the stud players or just sign average guys. If you want an average team then that's what you do. If our franchise can't handle the money being dished out in this era of football then maybe they shouldn't be in Buffalo if they can't compete with it.

A few years ago we got Schobel for around 4.5 million a year or so. At that time people thought it was a lot. Now that is chump change. Guys like Robert Royal and Denney signed for 2.5-3 million a year. Would you rather have Denney for 2.5-3 million or Schobel for 4.5 million? That's the difference in contracts over the last 2 seasons. If Schobel was a FA right now he would get 6+ million a year easily.

If we wanna keep guys like Losman and Evans around for more then the next couple years we should re-sign them now. In two more years the salaries will only be that much more and we will never pony up the money to keep them. Now is our best chance while they're under contract and like playing with each other. If they got a raise they would take it. Two years from now when they're FA's and the FA's are making 20% more a year the money this year will seem like a steal.

[HHURRICANE]

Can anyone tell me when the last time Nate Clements made an INT or a play for that matter that was game changing or a clutch stop that prevented a team from gettin a first down, he might be one of the best FA available but he is not worth the money we will get, same with Fletch, when is the last time he made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage or blitzed and actually got to a QB, spend the money on signing a difference maker,
I hope the first news of the offseason is that we out bid a team for Eric Steinbech, that is what i think would be the best FA signing we could possibly make

Your one of my favorite posters. Right on!! Nate is very good, not great. Nate went 20 games not looking very good. He got his act together after the bye and he will be one of the luckiest SOB's on the planet. I think he'll be very disappointing to whoever is stupid enough to pay his contract. Fletcher is a 32 year old, undersized LB, who is not a point of attack player. We can do better.

After everyone gets done *****ing about losing Nate and London than I see us making some impact pickups in FA. I really believe that Ralph has confidence again and may open up his wallet like he did in 2002, with hopefully a better result.

[BillsFever21]

If we could get one more option to go with Evans and shore up a couple spots on our line or offense would be good to go for a few years. That's assuming we keep Losman and Evans after the next 2 years. The foundation is there with them guys but we have a few more spots to make it that much better.

With the defense though there are many holes. How many younger guys can you look at right now on defense and say they are the studs that you can build your defense around? Especially outside of the safety position? Schobel is our best player but he's reaching the other side of 30.

We need many players on defense for the future. I believe like you said the defense will once again be the main focus. We need at least 2 LB's, a CB now that Clements will be gone, at least 2 more players on the DL(1 DE and 1 DT) to even begin to call that line respectable outside of Schobel.

We have more holes to fill for the future on defense then offense. Assuming we could keep our younger guys around like Losman and Evans around we need 3 or so players for the future. 1 or 2 OL, a RB when McGahee is gone and either another threat at WR or TE.

On defense we easily need about 5+ positions filled. We have a long ways to go with that unit as far as keeping a unit together for years to come.


I hope your wrong--and here is why.

Yes, Kelsay is a pretty good pass rusher-- AND he would be cheaper than some other defensive ends.

however- Hargrove and Denney can fill that role, and I dont think ANY of them should be the starter opposite Schobel.

IMO- We need a new starter at DE- someone who is much more capable of stopping the run. Kelsay, Hargrove and Denney are all horrid at run stopping- and I cant express how important it is that we change that.

I know the consensus was Marv would sign and draft defense last year and go to offense this year..

But we still need help defensively ESPECIALLY assuming we lose Nate and Fletch.. I think both replacements have to come via free agency.. Not necessarily for the same money or talent- but two players who will fit into the system real well.

Then of course you have the possibility that Spikes will not be good ever again.. When you add that up with a front four weak against stopping the run- there is still a lot of work to do.

ANyway, to stick to the point- I hope they dont resign Kelsay.

[BillsFever21]

Can anyone tell me when the last time Nate Clements made an INT or a play for that matter that was game changing or a clutch stop that prevented a team from gettin a first down, he might be one of the best FA available but he is not worth the money we will get, same with Fletch, when is the last time he made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage or blitzed and actually got to a QB, spend the money on signing a difference maker,
I hope the first news of the offseason is that we out bid a team for Eric Steinbech, that is what i think would be the best FA signing we could possibly make

You don't see much of him because his guy is usually shut down and they're throwing the ball away from him. He takes on the best WR every week and either shuts them down or holds his own. Of course he will have a bad game here and there or give up a big play. That happens to the best of them.

All year long everyone picked on McGee or our rookie safeties when they needed a play. Rarely did they try Clements and when they did he beat them more times then not.

[BillsFever21]

I don't understand some people. It seems like if we have an average player some people talk them up like they are better then they really are as long as they will come cheap.

The stud players that will get the top dollars they try and act like they're not as good and got overpaid. They're overpaid like every single one of them are. Nobody is worth that money but with the money they are getting now that is just market value.

Teams like the Eagles are ran great and do things the right way. When they see they have a good player they want to keep around they re-sign him a year or two before he becomes a FA and save a ton of money compared to what they would pay then.

They rarely ever let it get to the point that their stud player(s) become FA's and they have to get into a bidding war and plus them couple more years down the road means they end up paying more for the player regardless of a bidding war. The market value goes up ever year. The sooner you can re-sign a stud player the better off you will be.

I wanted us to re-sign Clements a couple years ago. Had we signed him then he would be a steal right now. It would've seemed like a ton at the time but right now it would be cheap compared to what everyone else will be getting.

The Eagles seem to keep their young stud players they wanna keep around and are always in decent shape with their cap in the process because they realize it's better to sign them earlier then later.

[BillsFever21]

Your one of my favorite posters. Right on!! Nate is very good, not great. Nate went 20 games not looking very good. He got his act together after the bye and he will be one of the luckiest SOB's on the planet. I think he'll be very disappointing to whoever is stupid enough to pay his contract. Fletcher is a 32 year old, undersized LB, who is not a point of attack player. We can do better.

After everyone gets done *****ing about losing Nate and London than I see us making some impact pickups in FA. I really believe that Ralph has confidence again and may open up his wallet like he did in 2002, with hopefully a better result.

Fletcher only finishes in the Top 5 in tackles every year and is our leader on defense but we can easily improve that position? With him being 32 now in the future it may be improved compared to what his level of play will be then but for this year it won't be that easy.

I can't believe all the people that thinks we can just easily improve our positions by replacing our best players with cheaper alternatives. If them players were better then what them guys are gonna get then they wouldn't be signing for half of the price or more.

[OpIv37]

This is the going rate for a CB the caliber of Clements. It seems like every player that gets paid people here consider them "overpaid" when it's their market. Every player that gets a big contract is overpaid.

These are the types of contracts your stud players get in this day of age after the new CBA. If you never wanna pony up the money then you will never get stud players to re-sign or through FA.

If you don't wanna pony up the money then you're left with a bunch of cheap signings last year with a bunch of average players that didn't make any major impact on our team.

If you don't pony up the money then you sure the hell better ace all of your drafts and have a great coach that can overcome lack of talent like Bill Belichek. Unfortunately Jauron isn't that coach.

If you happy with 7-9 wins every year or maybe sneak in a playoff slot once in a while just to get torn apart in the 1st round then I guess we shouldn't pony up the money. If you want to consistently have a good team that can make the playoffs and compete for a SB then you need to pay the good players.

Four years ago or so you could get a great player for 3-5 million a year. Our franchise was willing to pay that. Now them same players cost 7+ million a year and our franchise probably won't pay for them players. Now for 3 million or so a year you can only get players like Robert Royal and Peerless Price. Them are the only types of players we're gonna end up with.

I gurantee you every stud player who signs a new contract in the future will be considered overpaid. Are the overpaid? They sure are. Nobody deserves that kind of money and especially the pay raises that we've seen over the last couple years. Every year the players want a raise like their making 40k a year like the average american. They need to have a limit somewhere. This isn't the case though.

A few years ago the biggest contracts awarded seem like an unthinkable amount. Now them contracts seem like a reasonable price compared to what they're getting now and in 3 more years contracts that guys like Clements will get this year will seem cheap compared to what they will be getting then.

You either pay the money for the stud players or just sign average guys. If you want an average team then that's what you do. If our franchise can't handle the money being dished out in this era of football then maybe they shouldn't be in Buffalo if they can't compete with it.

A few years ago we got Schobel for around 4.5 million a year or so. At that time people thought it was a lot. Now that is chump change. Guys like Robert Royal and Denney signed for 2.5-3 million a year. Would you rather have Denney for 2.5-3 million or Schobel for 4.5 million? That's the difference in contracts over the last 2 seasons. If Schobel was a FA right now he would get 6+ million a year easily.

If we wanna keep guys like Losman and Evans around for more then the next couple years we should re-sign them now. In two more years the salaries will only be that much more and we will never pony up the money to keep them. Now is our best chance while they're under contract and like playing with each other. If they got a raise they would take it. Two years from now when they're FA's and the FA's are making 20% more a year the money this year will seem like a steal.


First, you're overrated Clements when you say a player of his "caliber". We're talking about a guy who's had maybe 8-10 good games over the last 2 seasons and easily as many bad ones. The guy isn't Champ Bailey or McCallister but he wants us to think it is.

Second, you're neglecting the whole cap issue. Do you want to be like Indy, who spends so much of their cap on offense that their D is 32nd against the run and allowed 30 yards per game more than the team that finished 31?

Yeah, at some point we'll have to shell out. But shell out for guys like Ed Reed, Chris McCallister, LT, Gates, Bailey, Julius Peppers- guys who are PROVEN playmakers that show up every game. Clements is not that guy.

[djjimkelly]

bills cutting villarial big news will happen before FA starts

[bigbub2352]

OK, just so u guys now we were ranked 28th against the run that doesnt bode well for Fletch bein in the top 5 in the league in tackles, fact of the matter is Clements and Flectcher being here has contributed to the Bills not making the playoffs since both arriver in 2001, any questions comments or problems just read that sentence over and over again, Fact of the matter is Clements is overatted, and yes he has had his moments as a PR and a CB, but like previously mentioned how many times has he been torched, how mant times did he fumble when return kicks, Fletcher is a warrior i am not questioning that, but how many times has he been consumed by blockers and makes the tackle 5 yards down feild, when is the last time he shot through the line on a 3 and 1 and got the RB in the backfeild, not many, he is what football people call a catcher not a tackler, plus he is 32 and WE CAN DO BETTER THAN BOTH GUYS, Nate Clements is available in every draft and so is Fletch, dont believe me look at the draft classes since he was taken and see how many CB were taken in the first round

The time to hold on to some of these players and some of these depth players has come and gone, how long do we need to keep AIken, Wire, Shaud Williams, these type players to show u people we havent gone to the playoffs in the better part of a decade, let these guys go, they are all replaceable, shore up the Lines then u will get more talent for your money cause this will allow your SKILL players to flourish,

Again remember 28th against the run and 3 picks doenst warrant new contracts, those are average numbers on any team, and go look at the tackle totals and see how many were made at the line of scrimmage
!!

[BillsFever21]

First, you're overrated Clements when you say a player of his "caliber". We're talking about a guy who's had maybe 8-10 good games over the last 2 seasons and easily as many bad ones. The guy isn't Champ Bailey or McCallister but he wants us to think it is.

Second, you're neglecting the whole cap issue. Do you want to be like Indy, who spends so much of their cap on offense that their D is 32nd against the run and allowed 30 yards per game more than the team that finished 31?

Yeah, at some point we'll have to shell out. But shell out for guys like Ed Reed, Chris McCallister, LT, Gates, Bailey, Julius Peppers- guys who are PROVEN playmakers that show up every game. Clements is not that guy.

So signing a great player to the money he deserves means you're tying up all of your cap money on one side of the ball?

How many players on defense is making a ton of money? Schobel's contract is dirt cheap for the prices a player like him is making now. Spikes is making more then he deserves now after the injury.

Actually we don't have many players who are making a good chunk. Our biggest average salary right now is around 5 million. That's nothing in this era. Bums like Robert Royal, Price and Melvin Fowler got contracts averaging almost 3 million a season.

We need to re-sign Evans to a long term deal this year. If we could also get JP to a modest 3 year extension that would put him here the next 5 years. Give it a few incentives. If he becomes the star we think we will then he'll be a highly paid player. If not then he won't. Either way he'll be getting a raise right now.

Get them two of our best young players locked up right now and we can go from there. If we wait another year or two and Losman and Evans blows up we will be in the same situation we are in right now with guys like Clements.

Losman and Evans will be FA's and will get 7+ million a year and we will get outbid. Lock them two guys up this season while we have all the cap money and see what our cap future will hold after that.

And when you're acting like signing Clements is tying up all of our cap we will have players like Spikes whose contract will be off the books in a couple years. Schobel will be around there soon and will be old by the time that rolls around.

You can't be worrying about cap money when you're 35 million under when you only have about 3 young players on the team worth a damn to sign as it is and are also the only players who will be FA's in the next couple years to worry about.

The cap will also be going up. Signing a player the money he deserves isn't ruining your cap. I guess we can just go out and continue to sign more players for 2.5 million a year. Three years from now we'll still have 20 million dollars in cap space along with probably 6-8 wins on the year. But hey we'll have plenty of cap space for the future.

[BillsFever21]

Some of you guys underestimate the ability just to replace a player who has the skills as Clements.

Clements is better then 90% of the CB's you will find in the draft over the next few years. The CB's who will match him or be better will most likely be higher draft picks where you will be shelling out a lot of money for anyway along with waiting 2 years or so for them to even develop into that player.

We have a lot of needs on this team. Constantly not re-signing good players means draft picks that you have to keep wasting to replace them. You never further yourself because instead of focusing on other positions that need help you're always trying to find replacements.

If there is a good CB that will play close to Clements ability in FA then I won't have a problem with him walking. If not then you try and re-sign him.

We need 2 LB's, 2 Guards, 1 RB probably after next year, probably a center because Fowler was junk last year, upgrade with the #2 WR, upgrade at DE and tons of DL help.

There's only so many draft picks for them and so many players that will actually become good enough to fill them positions that we want. When you have a great player already on your team and tons of extra money to spend you try and keep them and focus on the other positions.

If you are happy being an average team then you just sign a bunch of cheap average FA's that not many people want. You will always be average but will always have a ton of cap space available just to let the next great player walk when it's time for them to become a FA.

There isn't many good young impact FA's available anymore because their team re-signs them. Not re-signing them means one more hole that you have to try and fill on a team that already has plenty of them.

Trying to fill the holes we have right now is an incredible task. It's not good to include one more hole at a position you already have a great player at right now.

[OpIv37]

So signing a great player to the money he deserves means you're tying up all of your cap money on one side of the ball?

How many players on defense is making a ton of money? Schobel's contract is dirt cheap for the prices a player like him is making now. Spikes is making more then he deserves now after the injury.

Actually we don't have many players who are making a good chunk. Our biggest average salary right now is around 5 million. That's nothing in this era. Bums like Robert Royal, Price and Melvin Fowler got contracts averaging almost 3 million a season.

We need to re-sign Evans to a long term deal this year. If we could also get JP to a modest 3 year extension that would put him here the next 5 years. Give it a few incentives. If he becomes the star we think we will then he'll be a highly paid player. If not then he won't. Either way he'll be getting a raise right now.

Get them two of our best young players locked up right now and we can go from there. If we wait another year or two and Losman and Evans blows up we will be in the same situation we are in right now with guys like Clements.

Losman and Evans will be FA's and will get 7+ million a year and we will get outbid. Lock them two guys up this season while we have all the cap money and see what our cap future will hold after that.

And when you're acting like signing Clements is tying up all of our cap we will have players like Spikes whose contract will be off the books in a couple years. Schobel will be around there soon and will be old by the time that rolls around.

You can't be worrying about cap money when you're 35 million under when you only have about 3 young players on the team worth a damn to sign as it is and are also the only players who will be FA's in the next couple years to worry about.

The cap will also be going up. Signing a player the money he deserves isn't ruining your cap. I guess we can just go out and continue to sign more players for 2.5 million a year. Three years from now we'll still have 20 million dollars in cap space along with probably 6-8 wins on the year. But hey we'll have plenty of cap space for the future.

You have three huge flaws in your argument. First, Nate is not a great player. Above average, possibly, but certainly not great. The guy has underperformed the last two seasons.

Second, a lot of teams have a lot of cap room, and there aren't many FA CB's available. Therefore, Clements will go for a high price- a lot more than he deserves.

Third, you're neglecting to consider that we have a lot of guys to sign with that cap space, and that the players whose salaries will be off the books in a few years will need to be REPLACED, most likely by players with equal or greater salaries if we're going to get better.

[OpIv37]

Some of you guys underestimate the ability just to replace a player who has the skills as Clements.

Clements is better then 90% of the CB's you will find in the draft over the next few years. The CB's who will match him or be better will most likely be higher draft picks where you will be shelling out a lot of money for anyway along with waiting 2 years or so for them to even develop into that player.

We have a lot of needs on this team. Constantly not re-signing good players means draft picks that you have to keep wasting to replace them. You never further yourself because instead of focusing on other positions that need help you're always trying to find replacements.

If there is a good CB that will play close to Clements ability in FA then I won't have a problem with him walking. If not then you try and re-sign him.

We need 2 LB's, 2 Guards, 1 RB probably after next year, probably a center because Fowler was junk last year, upgrade with the #2 WR, upgrade at DE and tons of DL help.

There's only so many draft picks for them and so many players that will actually become good enough to fill them positions that we want. When you have a great player already on your team and tons of extra money to spend you try and keep them and focus on the other positions.

If you are happy being an average team then you just sign a bunch of cheap average FA's that not many people want. You will always be average but will always have a ton of cap space available just to let the next great player walk when it's time for them to become a FA.

There isn't many good young impact FA's available anymore because their team re-signs them. Not re-signing them means one more hole that you have to try and fill on a team that already has plenty of them.

Trying to fill the holes we have right now is an incredible task. It's not good to include one more hole at a position you already have a great player at right now.

Yeah, we should just fix the D by loading it up with a bunch of high priced FA's, like Tom Donahoe did. We weren't mediocre at all- 6-10, 9-7, 5-11, 7-9. :rolleyes:

And Nate is NOT a great player. Yes, eventually we'll have to shell out for FA's to get better- Levy went cheap last year and he did a terrible job with FA's. I'll agree with that. But paying top dollar for slightly above-average talent will get us in trouble.

[BillsFever21]

All I hear is this player cost to much and we could use it elsewhere. How many stud players do we have on our team? Not very many.

We can just save that money for more average players and then when another good player comes around that needs paid we can let them walk too because they're not worth the money and it can be used somewhere else even though it never gets spent.

Last year we had chances to sign some impact OL that would've cost 6 million a year or so. That was too much to some because it could've been used elsewhere. Instead we sign a cluster of average players for 2.5-3 million a year that won't make any impact.

How much further ahead were we with this process? The players we signed for 2.5 million could've easily been replaced in the draft for 500k. That money saved would've paid for a good OL who will make an impact. Somebody better then Tutan Reyes or Melvin Fowler.

Go ahead and let Clements walk. Instead of paying him 7 million a year we can sign a cheap average replacement for 3 million and a couple more average players for 2.5 million. Instead of 1 good player who will make an impact we can have 3 more average players that won't. Sounds like a plan.

[OpIv37]

All I hear is this player cost to much and we could use it elsewhere. How many stud players do we have on our team? Not very many.

We can just save that money for more average players and then when another good player comes around that needs paid we can let them walk too because they're not worth the money and it can be used somewhere else even though it never gets spent.

Last year we had chances to sign some impact OL that would've cost 6 million a year or so. That was too much to some because it could've been used elsewhere. Instead we sign a cluster of average players for 2.5-3 million a year that won't make any impact.

How much further ahead were we with this process? The players we signed for 2.5 million could've easily been replaced in the draft for 500k. That money saved would've paid for a good OL who will make an impact. Somebody better then Tutan Reyes or Melvin Fowler.

Go ahead and let Clements walk. Instead of paying him 7 million a year we can sign a cheap average replacement for 3 million and a couple more average players for 2.5 million. Instead of 1 good player who will make an impact we can have 3 more average players that won't. Sounds like a plan.


I still think you're overestimating Nate's value. Fix the pass rush and that 3 million CB will easily equal Nate's production.

[BillsFever21]

You have three huge flaws in your argument. First, Nate is not a great player. Above average, possibly, but certainly not great. The guy has underperformed the last two seasons.

Second, a lot of teams have a lot of cap room, and there aren't many FA CB's available. Therefore, Clements will go for a high price- a lot more than he deserves.

Third, you're neglecting to consider that we have a lot of guys to sign with that cap space, and that the players whose salaries will be off the books in a few years will need to be REPLACED, most likely by players with equal or greater salaries if we're going to get better.

So just hold onto a bunch of cap space and be average for the next 3 seasons waiting for them guys? And then when them 2 or 3 years rolls around they will cost to much money and we can't sign them because in two more years other draft picks who performed will be FA's and we will need to sign them and probably only to see them walk.

Two or three years ago we had the same argument with Clements as to why we couldn't keep or sign a player that would cost some money. We had players like Clements that will cost money to keep in a couple years and we can't afford everybody. It's one big revolving door.

I see all these other teams who keep or sign great players to the money they deserve but they never have a problem staying under the cap. Everybody is millions under the cap now. Many teams who have dished out money to players that deserved it.

Also, you don't see many CB's in the FA market for one very good reason. Most teams don't let them become FA's because they lock them up to contracts before they have the chance and keep them.

Lately you don't see many stud FA's period. They are being re-signed or tagged by their teams because they are good. When this is the case and there aren't many great players and the skill positions anymore that means you have to try and keep your own players like everybody else.

The 7.5 million we spent to tag Clements this year could've went towards a new contract last year in which his salary probably would've been about 3 million.

Last year with a ton of cap room we heard we need to watch the money we spend because we have guys like Clements to try and sign. Now it's the same thing.

The extra money we paid to tag Clements instead along with signing about 7 non-impact players to a bunch of 2.5-3 million dollars a year could've paid for a great player who has to be paid. All them average players for 3 million a year could've been easily filled with draft picks for 500k instead.

It's a lot easier to replace average players making 3 million a year in the draft then it is to replace stud players making 7 million a year. The money you save with replacing the 3 million dollar average players with draft picks pay for the good players you wanna keep.

[oak tree 12]

I dont think Nate or London will be back....I see the Bills going out and getting a starting Guard, and LB, would like them to go out and get a bigger possesion WR as well.....The Bills have plenty of $$ to spend after both those guys are gone...

if they spend their money right they will sign nate and make him their #1 priority. like juron and fuell both said nate would be the hardest thing to replace if he were to leave. i think they tell Ralph all they want in free agency is nate and i unlike everyone else think Ralph will oblige.

[oak tree 12]

Nall demands to be traded to the Hamilton Ti-Cats

who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bye bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oak tree 12]

Can anyone tell me when the last time Nate Clements made an INT or a play for that matter that was game changing or a clutch stop that prevented a team from gettin a first down, he might be one of the best FA available but he is not worth the money we will get, same with Fletch, when is the last time he made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage or blitzed and actually got to a QB, spend the money on signing a difference maker,
I hope the first news of the offseason is that we out bid a team for Eric Steinbech, that is what i think would be the best FA signing we could possibly make

yea he really sucks thats why the line will be a mile long with suiters for his services. fortunately juron and fuell both disagree with your ridiculous comments, i hope and pray we keep him!!!!!! difference maker watch the difference in our pass defence next year if he's not here!!!!!!!!

[njsue]

The re- signing of Nate Clements.

[SABURZFAN]

So what do you see it being? Will we sign a big name free agent or will a game in Europe be the first big news for the Bills this offseason?


we cut losman. :couch: :snicker:

[HHURRICANE]

we cut losman. :couch: :snicker:

Funny how he played better than your beloved D. Also I like how you pussed out on giving us your "year-end" evaluation of the Defense. You need to change your screen name to "Gutless wonder".

[ZacGriffi~82]

I'd be willing to bet that we do nothing to replace Fletcher except add depth.


Spikes - Crowell - Ellison is what i think it's going to be.