Retaining Clements unrealistic for Buffalo

[The_Philster]

When the NFL's free agency period commences on March 2, the <ACRONYM title="Buffalo Bills News">Buffalo Bills</ACRONYM> could stand to lose their No. 1 cornerback, Nate Clements. The 27-year-old, who was a first-round pick of Buffalo's in 2001, will become an unrestricted free agent. If Clements and the Bills can't reach a long-term deal prior to early March, he'll more than likely head for greener pastures elsewhere....more (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/01/bills-retainingclements-unrealistic230107.html)

[eyedog]

That sucks when your approx. 40 m. under the cap and you won't resign your best defensive player. It must be a new strategy for reaching the Super Bowl. It's called, let your good players walk and sign marginal meaningless free agents. You save alot of money that way.

[jamze132]

That sucks when your approx. 40 m. under the cap and you won't resign your best defensive player. It must be a new strategy for reaching the Super Bowl. It's called, let your good players walk and sign marginal meaningless free agents. You save alot of money that way.
While I feel your sentiment, I hope that Marv can convince the old man to let him spend how he sees fit to build this team to his liking. Marv knows a thing or two about building a perenial winning product. Reating Clements still may not be in Marv's interest though. I will trust his decision which ever way he goes.

[JoeMama]

That sucks when your approx. 40 m. under the cap and you won't resign your best defensive player.

I can't recall the Bills being under the salary cap by that much since it's inception.

And One Bills Drive is acting like we can't afford a cornerback?

Unreal.

That's embracing a culture of losing & it's absurd.

One thing this front office needs to get thru its thick skull is they're not the Patriots front office. One Bills Drive needs to overcome this misguided impression they can mimick the Patriots & bring in mediocre journeymen & get superstar results.

That's just not how it works. We don't have Bill Belichick. We don't have Tom Brady. We can't get away with nobodies at every position & expect to win games regardless. We're not the Patriots.

Look at the players we brought in over the past two years.

2005
OL Jason Jefferson - Signed 10/12
LS Mike Schneck - Signed 9/6
OL Greg Jerman - Signed - 5/25
OL Bennie Anderson - Signed - 3/31
QB Kelly Holcomb - Signed - 3/4
OL Mike Gandy - Signed - 3/4

2006
LB Roy Manning - Signed - 12/5
TE Matt Murphy - Signed - 11/22
RB Anthony Thomas - Signed - 4/28
G Tutan Reyes - Signed - 4/27
WR Peerless Price- Signed - 4/10
DB Kiwaukee Thomas - Signed - 4/5
C Melvin Fowler - Signed - 3/21
QB Craig Nall - Signed - 3/21
SS Matt Bowen - Signed - 3/16
WR Andre' Davis - Signed - 3/12
DT Larry Tripplett - Signed - 3/11
TE Robert Royal - Signed - 3/11
DT Eric Powell - Signed - 1/19

Not too many stars in that group.

In fact, the only one who played above his head was Kiwaukee Thomas.

It's like OBD suffers from illusions of grandeur.

Elite players cost money. Sometimes you have to pony up the cash to retain great players. There's really no excuse for Nate Clements to walk with an excess of $40 million laying in a pile on Ralph Wilson's desk.

[Carlton Bailey]

Awesome post, Joe. I couldn't agree more.

[BillsFever21]

That sucks when your approx. 40 m. under the cap and you won't resign your best defensive player. It must be a new strategy for reaching the Super Bowl. It's called, let your good players walk and sign marginal meaningless free agents. You save alot of money that way.

But we need to save this money for other players on our team who will be FA's in a few years that we won't pay up for or re-sign either because their not worth the money of the going rate for top tier NFL talent.

We will never go anywhere with this type of strategy. You win with good coaching and great players. If you don't have great players then you better have a great coach like Bill Belicheck which we don't.

What are we gonna do sit around with 25 million dollars in cap space every year? What happens when Losman and Evans are FA's in a couple years?

Whenever our team starts to turn the corner we end up further behind the 8-ball the next season because we let a couple important players walk instead of paying up for their services.

It's funny every year when you see teams signing their good players to the big contracts and then you got some people around here talking about how stupid they are for spending that kind of money and how we are smarter then them. Well we're one of only a handful of teams that haven't seen one playoff bearth in the last 7 years. Our strategy must not have been that great.

[eyedog]

This was how Ralph operated troughout the '70's and into the mid -'80's. Then he finally opened the purse strings when Polian/Kelly arrived and they hit their golden era. I'm starting to question again if Ralph really cares about winning anymore.

[JPFBillsFan]

This is a very foolish Post....1 player doesn't make a team....especially when your GM believe if you apply good preasure up front you can make an avg DB a superstar......second we have other pressing needs to fix before needing that final piece of a shut down corner to put us over the hump to get to the playoffs....NE won 3 superbowls with a bunch of nobodies......WHY can't we?

[Carlton Bailey]

New England didn't win three Bowls with nobodies at corner. They had Ty Law for one of them, and he played a huge role in the win over the Rams. Then they had Asante Samuel for the other two.

[BillsFever21]

This is a very foolish Post....1 player doesn't make a team....especially when your GM believe if you apply good preasure up front you can make an avg DB a superstar......second we have other pressing needs to fix before needing that final piece of a shut down corner to put us over the hump to get to the playoffs....NE won 3 superbowls with a bunch of nobodies......WHY can't we?

They have Bill Belichek. As much as some of you want to think Jauron can pull a Belicheck he isn't. Any other HC in the league would've never taken the Patriots to the success they have over the past few years.

What are more pressing needs? We get rid of our best CB and then we create another need. Then when next year comes and we have somebody else who deserves to be paid the excuse will be it's not worth it because we have more pressing needs like CB.

When you have a lot of needs you try and keep your great players you ALREADY have. When you let them walk when that space is already set that just creates one more hole for your team. It's a never ending revolving door.

So now we can just add CB onto the list of needs for the team. When you never keep any good players around that means you're always trying to fill needs.

And for those who think we can let Clements walk because we drafted his replacement last year in Youboty the guy couldn't even crack playing time and was beat out by journeyman like Thomas.

[BillsFever21]

New England didn't win three Bowls with nobodies at corner. They had Ty Law for one of them, and he played a huge role in the win over the Rams. Then they had Asante Samuel for the other two.

Some people around here thinks just because the Patriots can let players walk every year and still produce that we can. We're not the Patriots. Jauron isn't Belichek.

A few teams out of 32 can go by this concept and some thinks it's just a given and a piece of cake.

You don't win playoffs games let alone compete for championships by letting all your great players walk and replacing them with cheap journeymen or rookies because you're only 40 million under the cap.

It would be different if we already had a lot of players wrapped up in big contracts or had signed some over the last few years but this isn't the case.

But hey we can still be 25 million under the cap after this season and we can stare at all that cap space we'll have next season for players that we won't wanna pay.

This is the strategy of the Bengals for a period of about 15 years. If you wanna be the Bengals then more power to you.

[Stewie]

Some people here also assume that Ralph has final say over retaining Clements, which couldn't be further from the truth.

There are way too many factors to assume Ralph is cheap and thats that.

[jamze132]

Like I said I will trust Marv's decision. But I do believe in keeping your own stars instead of buying someone elses. Evans needs to be given an extension before he becomes one of the NFL's biggest stars. Let's see how JP does next year before we talk about his extension. But with those two, I wouldn't expect that they would screw One Bills Drive. We do have the money to resign Clements and a few others, if that's what Marv chooses to do.

To be honest, I don't think Clement's wants to be on the Bills anymore. I think he wants to be a free agent and have a say in where he plays.

[HHURRICANE]

That sucks when your approx. 40 m. under the cap and you won't resign your best defensive player. It must be a new strategy for reaching the Super Bowl. It's called, let your good players walk and sign marginal meaningless free agents. You save alot of money that way.

First off I don't give any credibilty to "real 365" considering they were schizophrenic regarding JP and Willis. I think one article was "McGahee, the Bills only offensive weapon".

Clements would be an incredibly stupid signing. He's not top 5 but we want to pay him as if if he's the best player at his position? Was I the only one watching him play like crap for a season and a half. Yeah he stepped it up after the bye and guaranteed himself a big paycheck. If Nate was my best friend I would be high fiving him. But as a Bills fan I would rather spend the money on a decent pass rush which will make Nate's departure less pressing. Considering Asante Samuels can be had for alot less and looked alot more impressive can anyone explain to me why they are upset. Plus this is a bad market to make a mistake. Their is unprecedented Cap space available for all teams so overpaying is a reality. Considering we haven't been to a playoff game since Nate has been here I'll take my chances with some new players.

[eyedog]

That way of thinking is not bad HHurricane but I have a couple of problems with it. Who is the pass rusher available ?, and What makes you think Ralph will dish out the money for said player ?
If they want to let Nate walk and sign a couple of other top talented free agents, like Steinbach or this mystery pass rushing d-end, or run stuffing tackle, or stud mlb,then I have no problems. But if he walks and they sit at 30-40 m. under the cap going into next season then somethings wrong. Signing a half dozen of crap fa players doesn't cut it.{check out the above list and you show me who the star{s} are.

[texasphinsfan]

First off I don't give any credibilty to "real 365" considering they were schizophrenic regarding JP and Willis. I think one article was "McGahee, the Bills only offensive weapon".

Clements would be an incredibly stupid signing. He's not top 5 but we want to pay him as if if he's the best player at his position? Was I the only one watching him play like crap for a season and a half. Yeah he stepped it up after the bye and guaranteed himself a big paycheck. If Nate was my best friend I would be high fiving him. But as a Bills fan I would rather spend the money on a decent pass rush which will make Nate's departure less pressing. Considering Asante Samuels can be had for alot less and looked alot more impressive can anyone explain to me why they are upset. Plus this is a bad market to make a mistake. Their is unprecedented Cap space available for all teams so overpaying is a reality. Considering we haven't been to a playoff game since Nate has been here I'll take my chances with some new players.

Trust me, you're going to want to keep Clements.

good DBs are hard to find in today's NFL, and you have to pay up if you want to get them. You have a stud in Clements, and letting him go would be a huge blow to your stellar secondary.

We had to dump Surtain two years ago, and man do we miss him! we didn't want to pay him what he was worth, and it was a stupid move. should have kept him. Its easy to not realize what you've got till its gone. If you guys let Clements go, you'll probably pick up a mediocre DB somewhere (like we did with Reggie Howard) who will get burned so many times and you'll be cryin for Clements again.

Just resign the guy. he's a stud.

[Iehoshua]

Is Chris Watson available?

[JoeMama]

Is Chris Watson available?

LOL!

Good old Chris Watson.

He was everybody's favorite tomato can to kick around back in the day.

What's scary is I just came back to this thread to make a Chris Watson joke.

You beat me to the punch.

[Carlton Bailey]

Just sign Chris Watson and Donovan Greer to fill Clements' shoes, since so many people here are convinced you can plop anyone at the CB spot.

[M]

Is Chris Watson available?

:rofl:

OMG! Thanks to you, I'm going to have nightmares tonite. Where is "Toast" anyway??

[Iehoshua]

Watson @ NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133441)

Watson from KFFL (http://www.kffl.com/player/168/nfl)

Looks like his career is toast...

[Carlton Bailey]

I wonder if Watson puts butter on himself when he goes out in the sun, since he is toast after all.

Kramer did it in Seinfeld; Chris probably does, too.

[PECKERWOOD]

I feel like Asante Samuel may lower Clements value some during FA, perhaps we could resign him long-term if that is the case?

[Mahdi]

That way of thinking is not bad HHurricane but I have a couple of problems with it. Who is the pass rusher available ?, and What makes you think Ralph will dish out the money for said player ?
If they want to let Nate walk and sign a couple of other top talented free agents, like Steinbach or this mystery pass rushing d-end, or run stuffing tackle, or stud mlb,then I have no problems. But if he walks and they sit at 30-40 m. under the cap going into next season then somethings wrong. Signing a half dozen of crap fa players doesn't cut it.{check out the above list and you show me who the star{s} are.
There are quite a few pass rushing DEs available actually, Freeney, J.Smith, Kerney, Charles Grant to name a few.

[texasphinsfan]

I feel like Asante Samuel may lower Clements value some during FA, perhaps we could resign him long-term if that is the case?

that may actually be your saving grace. you guys kind of lucked out here... unlike Samuels, Clements did not have a career year this year.... which is a good thing, for you guys. so you can resign him on the cheap (relatively).

What's more, now that Samuels is available, and he is higher-visibility DB free agent, means you will have more leverage and ability to resign him.

[kernowboy]

Firstly, I am concerned that Clements only came good when he was looking at a salary drive. He was poor in the first half of the season and not much better last season.

Secondly, we drafted Ashton Youboty last season. Taken in the 3rd, he carried a 1st round grade. Whilst we retained a theoretical playoff opportunity it would have been foolish to throw in a rookie, particularly one had a personally traumatic start to his pro career. But if Youboty was in this class, where would he be in the corner class ... 4th, 5th best? I am not sure we need to jump in and panic. Don't be confused by his lack of game type .. I'm sure we have a diamond in the rough.

The Tampa2 defence we are playing doesn't seem to need elite corners. Take Chicago, Indianapolis even Tampa themselves. None had truly elite corners. Whilst I am not saying it wouldn't be nice to have an elite corner, I'm not sure Nate qualifies as elite and we would be better using cap space here on to key positions, NT and MLB, and if we are lucky a top LE before we need to consider the RCB position, especially one who wants Bailey sized money. If he wants Champ money, he ought to play like Champ!

[feelthepain]

While I feel your sentiment, I hope that Marv can convince the old man to let him spend how he sees fit to build this team to his liking. Marv knows a thing or two about building a perenial winning product. Reating Clements still may not be in Marv's interest though. I will trust his decision which ever way he goes.

That Bridge has probably burned, the Bills had their chance to retain him, but he's made it clear he no longer wants to play in Buffalo, that's why he didn't want to have the franchise tag placed on him and lets be honest, someone is going to pay more for him then the Bills.

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh well, I feel like the best way to win in todays NFL is by spreading out the money you spend during FA. People are living in the past by thinking that we can give up the farm for name players.. Look at Snyder in Washington, then take a look at Bill Bilichick & Co. in New England, which team spends more money during FA and which team has been more successful? The bottom line is that, spending money ultimately doesn't equal success, period.

[texasphinsfan]

Oh well, I feel like the best way to win in todays NFL is by spreading out the money you spend during FA. People are living in the past by thinking that we can give up the farm for name players.. Look at Snyder in Washington, then take a look at Bill Bilichick & Co. in New England, which team spends more money during FA and which team has been more successful? The bottom line is that, spending money ultimately doesn't equal success, period.
very true.

BUT i don't think the two are mutually exclusive either. You can spend money and get primo free agents and do well.

[PECKERWOOD]

very true.

BUT i don't think the two are mutually exclusive either. You can spend money and get primo free agents and do well.

I agree with you on that. Ofcourse, you have to spend some money occassionally on very important parts of your team, for i.e.: Peyton Mannings, Tom Brady's, LT's, Champ Bailey's and Urlachers.. But many of these players that we are talking about are replaceable and I think Clements is one of them. Really, how many interceptions did he have this year? 3? And how many the year before that? 2. Do people really want to pay this guy Champ Bailey money? Holy smokes, that's a good way to kill this team and take us out of contention. If you really want to spend Champ Bailey type money on a player, Why not spend it on Asante Samuel, Lance Briggs or Steinbach? I mean, you might as well try to get value for your money atleast..

[HHURRICANE]

That way of thinking is not bad HHurricane but I have a couple of problems with it. Who is the pass rusher available ?, and What makes you think Ralph will dish out the money for said player ?
If they want to let Nate walk and sign a couple of other top talented free agents, like Steinbach or this mystery pass rushing d-end, or run stuffing tackle, or stud mlb,then I have no problems. But if he walks and they sit at 30-40 m. under the cap going into next season then somethings wrong. Signing a half dozen of crap fa players doesn't cut it.{check out the above list and you show me who the star{s} are.

We totally agree here. I'm assuming that if the bills don't re-sign Clemenets that Steinbach, Briggs, etc are coming in. If we don't you can say good bye to the Bills.

[texasphinsfan]

I agree with you on that. Ofcourse, you have to spend some money occassionally on very important parts of your team, for i.e.: Peyton Mannings, Tom Brady's, LT's, Champ Bailey's and Urlachers.. But many of these players that we are talking about are replaceable and I think Clements is one of them. Really, how many interceptions did he have this year? 3? And how many the year before that? 2. Do people really want to pay this guy Champ Bailey money? Holy smokes, that's a good way to kill this team and take us out of contention. If you really want to spend Champ Bailey type money on a player, Why not spend it on Asante Samuel, Lance Briggs or Steinbach? I mean, you might as well try to get value for your money atleast..
well you make good points... but don't be blinded by the stats. The best corners typically don't have high INT numbers because they aren't thrown at as much. You also have to think about how good he is at run defense.... and how he is at forcing fumbles. If memory serves me well, he is at the top of the league in these two departments as far as DBs go.

You guys may not think he's worth the money he's asking because you HAVE a good secondary. But coming from me, from a team with a weaker secondary, we'd gladly pay that kind of money for that skill.

We did the same thing two years ago with Surtain and Sammy Knight. Should have kept both of them. oh well. our loss. i just hope you guys don't make the same mistake.

Of course, if you have someone waiting in the wings who is of similar talent, then all this goes out the window and you can pull a "New England" and dump the vet for the new guy and have it all work out anyway.

[Mahdi]

I agree with you on that. Ofcourse, you have to spend some money occassionally on very important parts of your team, for i.e.: Peyton Mannings, Tom Brady's, LT's, Champ Bailey's and Urlachers.. But many of these players that we are talking about are replaceable and I think Clements is one of them. Really, how many interceptions did he have this year? 3? And how many the year before that? 2. Do people really want to pay this guy Champ Bailey money? Holy smokes, that's a good way to kill this team and take us out of contention. If you really want to spend Champ Bailey type money on a player, Why not spend it on Asante Samuel, Lance Briggs or Steinbach? I mean, you might as well try to get value for your money atleast..
I actually agree. I would rather sign Dwight Freeney and Steinbach/Dielman, than re-sign Clements. Freeney and Schobel together can make Youboty/McGee into Bailey/Woodson.

[eyedog]

There are quite a few pass rushing DEs available actually, Freeney, J.Smith, Kerney, Charles Grant to name a few.

And which won of these is Ralph gonna pay ? Freeney, pipe dream. Polian will never let him get away and he will cost more than Nate. Grant is a nice player. Smith and Kerney are not much of an upgrade.
I'll keep Nate.

[Mahdi]

And which won of these is Ralph gonna pay ? Freeney, pipe dream. Polian will never let him get away and he will cost more than Nate. Grant is a nice player. Smith and Kerney are not much of an upgrade.
I'll keep Nate.
Freeney will cost close to the same amount and he would do more for a defense than any CB would.

[texasphinsfan]

Freeney will cost close to the same amount and he would do more for a defense than any CB would.
Freeney could quite-possibly be the most expensive FA out there. So unless you guys are the Redskins, i don't know.

That said, isn't there a good chance Indy franchises him IF they don't tender him an extension anyway?

[eyedog]

Freeney could quite-possibly be the most expensive FA out there. So unless you guys are the Redskins, i don't know.

That said, isn't there a good chance Indy franchises him IF they don't tender him an extension anyway?

Exactly. Polian isn't letting Freeney walk. He knows how valuable a pass rushing d-end is, and if he did somehow get out of there he sure as hell isn't coming to Buffalo. No way Ralph ponies up that kind of money and he will cost more than Nate.

[eyedog]

So if they let Nate walk who are they signing with this 40 mil. ?

Frenney-nope
Steinbach- I would go for that.
Samuel- might as well keep Nate.
Briggs- good player but outside linebackers are easier to find then good corners.

Who else is an upgrade over keeping Nate ? The money is there, they had better use it on somebody. And by that I don't mean fa's like Reyes, Royal, Bowen, and Price.

[texasphinsfan]

as a dolphin fan, i would hate seeing you keep nate.... but it might be one of the more prudent things for you guys to do

[jpdex12]

Awesome post, Joe. I couldn't agree more.

Dwight Shrute is my hero!

[jimmifli]

LOL!

Good old Chris Watson.

He was everybody's favorite tomato can to kick around back in the day.

What's scary is I just came back to this thread to make a Chris Watson joke.

You beat me to the punch.
You should've moved on to Daryl Porter.

[jimmifli]

I can't recall the Bills being under the salary cap by that much since it's inception.

And One Bills Drive is acting like we can't afford a cornerback?

Unreal.

That's embracing a culture of losing & it's absurd.

One thing this front office needs to get thru its thick skull is they're not the Patriots front office. One Bills Drive needs to overcome this misguided impression they can mimick the Patriots & bring in mediocre journeymen & get superstar results.

That's just not how it works. We don't have Bill Belichick. We don't have Tom Brady. We can't get away with nobodies at every position & expect to win games regardless. We're not the Patriots.

Look at the players we brought in over the past two years.

2005
OL Jason Jefferson - Signed 10/12
LS Mike Schneck - Signed 9/6
OL Greg Jerman - Signed - 5/25
OL Bennie Anderson - Signed - 3/31
QB Kelly Holcomb - Signed - 3/4
OL Mike Gandy - Signed - 3/4

2006
LB Roy Manning - Signed - 12/5
TE Matt Murphy - Signed - 11/22
RB Anthony Thomas - Signed - 4/28
G Tutan Reyes - Signed - 4/27
WR Peerless Price- Signed - 4/10
DB Kiwaukee Thomas - Signed - 4/5
C Melvin Fowler - Signed - 3/21
QB Craig Nall - Signed - 3/21
SS Matt Bowen - Signed - 3/16
WR Andre' Davis - Signed - 3/12
DT Larry Tripplett - Signed - 3/11
TE Robert Royal - Signed - 3/11
DT Eric Powell - Signed - 1/19

Not too many stars in that group.

In fact, the only one who played above his head was Kiwaukee Thomas.

It's like OBD suffers from illusions of grandeur.

Elite players cost money. Sometimes you have to pony up the cash to retain great players. There's really no excuse for Nate Clements to walk with an excess of $40 million laying in a pile on Ralph Wilson's desk.
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but the 2005 list vs the 2006 list does offer an interesting comparison.

2005 are a bunch of irrelevent and/or terrible players.
2006 has some players that fill some key roles (not stars, but somewhat valuable players).

In other words:

In 2005 we signed liabilities.
In 2006 we signed assets.

Although not nearly enough, it does offer some hope.

[Tatonka]

I can't recall the Bills being under the salary cap by that much since it's inception.

And One Bills Drive is acting like we can't afford a cornerback?

Unreal.

That's embracing a culture of losing & it's absurd.

One thing this front office needs to get thru its thick skull is they're not the Patriots front office. One Bills Drive needs to overcome this misguided impression they can mimick the Patriots & bring in mediocre journeymen & get superstar results.

That's just not how it works. We don't have Bill Belichick. We don't have Tom Brady. We can't get away with nobodies at every position & expect to win games regardless. We're not the Patriots.

Look at the players we brought in over the past two years.

2005
OL Jason Jefferson - Signed 10/12
LS Mike Schneck - Signed 9/6
OL Greg Jerman - Signed - 5/25
OL Bennie Anderson - Signed - 3/31
QB Kelly Holcomb - Signed - 3/4
OL Mike Gandy - Signed - 3/4

2006
LB Roy Manning - Signed - 12/5
TE Matt Murphy - Signed - 11/22
RB Anthony Thomas - Signed - 4/28
G Tutan Reyes - Signed - 4/27
WR Peerless Price- Signed - 4/10
DB Kiwaukee Thomas - Signed - 4/5
C Melvin Fowler - Signed - 3/21
QB Craig Nall - Signed - 3/21
SS Matt Bowen - Signed - 3/16
WR Andre' Davis - Signed - 3/12
DT Larry Tripplett - Signed - 3/11
TE Robert Royal - Signed - 3/11
DT Eric Powell - Signed - 1/19

Not too many stars in that group.

In fact, the only one who played above his head was Kiwaukee Thomas.

It's like OBD suffers from illusions of grandeur.

Elite players cost money. Sometimes you have to pony up the cash to retain great players. There's really no excuse for Nate Clements to walk with an excess of $40 million laying in a pile on Ralph Wilson's desk.

Post of the month.

[jamze132]

That Bridge has probably burned, the Bills had their chance to retain him, but he's made it clear he no longer wants to play in Buffalo, that's why he didn't want to have the franchise tag placed on him and lets be honest, someone is going to pay more for him then the Bills.
I agree. So what are you trying to say?

[feelthepain]

I agree. So what are you trying to say?

I don't think Marv will convince him to stay!

[HHURRICANE]

So if they let Nate walk who are they signing with this 40 mil. ?

Frenney-nope
Steinbach- I would go for that.
Samuel- might as well keep Nate.
Briggs- good player but outside linebackers are easier to find then good corners.

Who else is an upgrade over keeping Nate ? The money is there, they had better use it on somebody. And by that I don't mean fa's like Reyes, Royal, Bowen, and Price.

In a must win game for the Bills, the Titans ran on 12 of the 13 plays to put their team in field goal range. They started from their own 10 yard line. They were so convinced that they could run on us that they threw the ball once. A top 5 or 6 corner didn't help us aginst a game winning drive.

My grandfather died recently with all of his hair which is amazing for a guy in his 70's. He was in great shape but had a bad heart and they couldn't do anything for him. My aunt was in crappy shape and was about 220 pounds her whole life. She just died in her 90's outliving my grandfather by about 20 years. She had a very strong heart. Do you see the analogy?

[jamze132]

I don't think Marv will convince him to stay!
And again I agree. I don't think Marv has much to do with it though. I think Clements already has his mind made up.

[feelthepain]

And again I agree. I don't think Marv has much to do with it though. I think Clements already has his mind made up.

Yep, It has to make you wonder if the Bills aren't willing to pay him, what message does this send to future prospects and FA's? You know players talk to each other, it's not like Clements is just an avg. CB, if the Bills were willing to place the franchise tag on him in the past then they must consider him somewhat valuable, so why beat around the bush? Just give the guy a contract he's happy with and move on.

Instead, he's angry with the Bills organization and is more then likely to be with another team, maybe a division rival. That's unacceptable if I'm a Bill fan, not that Nate is the best CB in the league and you can't imagine life without him, but that the FO has a chance to do the right thing by keeping a good player and they blow it. That's not the sign I'm looking for If I'm a Bills fan, the sign I'm looking for is that the FO makes an effort to keep players they should keep and get rid of players they should get rid of.

[texasphinsfan]

And again I agree. I don't think Marv has much to do with it though. I think Clements already has his mind made up.
wow... jamze and FTP agree with each other?

Hell just froze over! :D

[jamze132]

Yep, It has to make you wonder if the Bills aren't willing to pay him, what message does this send to future prospects and FA's? You know players talk to each other, it's not like Clements is just an avg. CB, if the Bills were willing to place the franchise tag on him in the past then they must consider him somewhat valuable, so why beat around the bush? Just give the guy a contract he's happy with and move on.

Instead, he's angry with the Bills organization and is more then likely to be with another team, maybe a division rival. That's unacceptable if I'm a Bill fan, not that Nate is the best CB in the league and you can't imagine life without him, but that the FO has a chance to do the right thing by keeping a good player and they blow it. That's not the sign I'm looking for If I'm a Bills fan, the sign I'm looking for is that the FO makes an effort to keep players they should keep and get rid of players they should get rid of.
You make some good points but no one knows what Clements will ultimately do. Think about it. You in the prime of your career and your first opportunity to test fee agency. I don't blame him for wanting to test the waters. It happens to every team.

And there's nothing saying that once Clements is a UFA, he can't sign with Buffalo. It all depends on what he wants. I won't hold it against him if he choses to sign elsewhere. It's not like the Bills are the cream of the crop in the NFL.

And here somethng else for ya, if the Bears win the Super Bowl and Lance Briggs decides to leave, what does that say about him and the Bears organization and their fans? Nothing. money drives these guys nowadays.

[feelthepain]

You in the prime of your career and your first opportunity to test fee agency. I don't blame him for wanting to test the waters. It happens to every team.

And there's nothing saying that once Clements is a UFA, he can't sign with Buffalo. It all depends on what he wants. I won't hold it against him if he choses to sign elsewhere. It's not like the Bills are the cream of the crop in the NFL.

I think when Nate was asking or waiting for the Bills to do the right thing with him by giving him the contract he wanted or at least a contract he could live with and they didn't, instead they franchise him, that tells him the team isn't committed to him, so why should he be committed to the team? I think had the Bills given him a caontract that he felt was worthy of his performance he would have signed it and stayed with the Bills. That doesn't mean he would have only signed it if it were a contract making him the highest paid CB in the league, but respectable nonetheless.

Players like money no doubt, but they also like playing for the same team for their whole career, it proves their value to the league, usually when a player stays his whole career with one team it's because that team recognizes and is willing to pay that player what they want because they value him and don't want to see another team get that player with their skills. By not stepping up to the plate when they had the chance, Nate took that as, "hey, I guess you don't think I'm worthy of the money, so I'll get it elsewhere".

While money is a huge factor in many decisions players make, respect is also a factor and it can make players leave just as easily as money can. You are correct we don't know what Nate plans on doing, but we do know he made it clear he will not be franchised again by the Bills, that doesn't sound like a guy who wants to stay, it sounds like a guy that will get his money and since the Bills weren't willing to give a younger Nate Clements money why would they give an older Nate Clements money?? I don't see it, so I think he's as good as gone, JMO.



And here somethng else for ya, if the Bears win the Super Bowl and Lance Briggs decides to leave, what does that say about him and the Bears organization and their fans? Nothing. money drives these guys nowadays.

There is another thing that drvies players decisions, some player want to play for certain teams, look at Eli Manninig making it clear he didn't want to play for the Chargers, he knew there would be a boat load of money there for him, but he made it clear he didn't want to play for the Chargers, there is a case where money wasn't a deciding factor, some players know they'll get the money wherever they play so since the money isn't in question they can play for their favorite team and they do.

If Lance wins a SB he's reached the top of the ladder, he can't do anymore then that besides winning multiple SB's, but it allows him to go elsewhere because he's already got his ring. As hard as it is to get a ring, having one is huge and who knows if the Bears get another one. I think If Briggs leaves Chicago, it will be to go to a team he wants to play for, some players find that just as satisfying as the money...which he'll still get no matter where that is. So basically, he can have his cake and eat it too.
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[HHURRICANE]

I think when Nate was asking or waiting for the Bills to do the right thing with him by giving him the contract he wanted or at least a contract he could live with and they didn't, instead they franchise him, that tells him the team isn't committed to him, so why should he be committed to the team? I think had the Bills given him a caontract that he felt was worthy of his performance he would have signed it and stayed with the Bills. That doesn't mean he would have only signed it if it were a contract making him the highest paid CB in the league, but respectable nonetheless.

Players like money no doubt, but they also like playing for the same team for their whole career, it proves their value to the league, usually when a player stays his whole career with one team it's because that team recognizes and is willing to pay that player what they want because they value him and don't want to see another team get that player with their skills. By not stepping up to the plate when they had the chance, Nate took that as, "hey, I guess you don't think I'm worthy of the money, so I'll get it elsewhere".

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You are so far off here it's unbelievable. Nate was never signing a contract in Buffalo. PERIOD. His agent would never allow it. He is the top rated Corner comining into the richest FA market in the history of the league. Are you kidding?

[feelthepain]

You are so far off here it's unbelievable. Nate was never signing a contract in Buffalo. PERIOD. His agent would never allow it. He is the top rated Corner comining into the richest FA market in the history of the league. Are you kidding?

He wouldn't be coming into the FA market had the Bills lokced him up when they had the chance. Clements is a good CB, but the best CB in the FA market, I don't agree.

[HHURRICANE]

He wouldn't be coming into the FA market had the Bills lokced him up when they had the chance. Clements is a good CB, but the best CB in the FA market, I don't agree.

One more time.

He didn't want to get "locked up" and miss an obvious homerun. There was no offer that the Bills were going to make that he was going to take because there is no history to refer to. Because this is an unprecedented time in league history, anything that Nate might have signed with the Bills still could have left him short of what the market was to provide in guaranteed money. I can tell you right now that Nate is one of the luckiest people on the planet and his guraranteed money will be a record. So tell me how the Bills were going to compete with that?

[HHURRICANE]

He wouldn't be coming into the FA market had the Bills lokced him up when they had the chance. Clements is a good CB, but the best CB in the FA market, I don't agree.


Bingo, but you think the Bills should lock him up for more than Champ Bailey? Becasue that's what he's getting. The only question was how much more?

How much more than Champ Bailey was Marv supposed to pay Nate? You be the GM.

[feelthepain]

One more time.

He didn't want to get "locked up" and miss an obvious homerun. There was no offer that the Bills were going to make that he was going to take because there is no history to refer to. Because this is an unprecedented time in league history, anything that Nate might have signed with the Bills still could have left him short of what the market was to provide in guaranteed money. I can tell you right now that Nate is one of the luckiest people on the planet and his guraranteed money will be a record. So tell me how the Bills were going to compete with that?

Nate was willing to sign a contract the last two seasons with the Bills, but they chose to place the Franchise tag on him rather then sign him because it was cheaper then signing to a big contract, but Nate made a stipulation that he not be given the franchise tag in 07, instead he would become a FA the Bills agreed. That's why he he is where he is now. BTW how much cap space do the Bills have?? And if your owner weren't so cheap he could match any singing bonus. If Nate were truly the best CB in FA's and the Bills have the first shot at the guy and they don't do anything about it who's fault is that? I'll tell you exactly what their thinking, they think their young DB's will step up and they don't need Nate and his big contract.Their concerned about thier money, not their talent. Too bad for Bill fans.

[feelthepain]

Bingo, but you think the Bills should lock him up for more than Champ Bailey? Becasue that's what he's getting. The only question was how much more?

How much more than Champ Bailey was Marv supposed to pay Nate? You be the GM.

Dude just stop it, you have no idea what he'll get. Do you remember last year When Branch wanted big time money from the Pats? He got big money, but not what he wanted from the Pats or Seattle. Players often think they are worth more then they are and Nate is no different. This same situation played itself out with TO,he wanted Marvin Harrison money with the Eagles and they refused, that lead to TO finding himself out of Philadelphia. Nate will not get Champ Bailey money because you're not getting Champ Bailey! Nate will just get more money then the Bills are willing to pay, and really that's not very hard to do.

[jmb1099]

Dude just stop it, you have no idea what he'll get. Do you remember last year When Branch wanted big time money from the Pats? He got big money, but not what he wanted from the Pats or Seattle. Players often think they are worth more then they are and Nate is no different. This same situation played itself out with TO,he wanted Marvin Harrison money with the Eagles and they refused, that lead to TO finding himself out of Philadelphia. Nate will not get Champ Bailey money because you're not getting Champ Bailey! Nate will just get more money then the Bills are willing to pay, and really that's not very hard to do.
Every thread, just about every post of yours turns into an anti Bills post. There is only one other corner in FA on par with Clements and that is Samuels. As far as Buffalo not paying out we have other needs that have to be filled. We need to fix the lines, a decent te would be great, a running back that plays consistently, a true number 2 receiver, linebacker. So to spend all of our money on one player (or close to it) is poor management.

[jamze132]

To be honest, I don't think Clements is worth $65 mil. That is a lot of money that is locked into one player who doesn't always play like his own "Playmaker" billing should. Granted he is arguably one of then top 5-7 CBs in the NFL, he doesn't warrant a contract that big. let someone else spend that much on him.

And with us playing the Cover 2, the CBs get a lot of help from the safeties. We don't necessarilly need a top 5 corner. There nice to have but not really needed.

I could see us offering in the $40-45 mil range for 6 years, and I would be ok with that, but not much more.