Clements leaving is no big deal!!

[HHURRICANE]

Clements is a top 5 or 6 corner in the league. Any time you lose a player like this it hurts. PERIOD. However, he wants #1 money and I have a hard time believing anybody here thinks thats a good move. Raise your hand if you feel otherwise.

We drafted Youboty for a reason. He will be the starter this coming season. The only reason people should get upset and lose their mind is if we don't address the DT, DE and LB positions which is not going to happen.

When we drafted Youboty everyone here pretty much acknowledged that we weren't going to resign Clements so I don't understand why a year later people are surprised.

This team is one FA market and draft class from making the playoffs:

(1) #2 WR, (1) starting RG, (1) starting LB, (1) starting DT and (1) starting DE.

If these psoitions get addresses in the off-season we are going. Any additional upgrades or additions just will determine how far.

[cocamide]

I just hope McGee has a better year than last. Clements is an amazing shutdown corner. I hope Youboty can do the same, because I don't think McGee can.

[HHURRICANE]

I just hope McGee has a better year than last. Clements is an amazing shutdown corner. I hope Youboty can do the same, because I don't think McGee can.

I agree that losing Clements hurts as I stated above. McGee had a disappointing year. I hope that's all it is. However, for those who are worried Whitner, Simpson, McGee and Youboty doesn't look like a bad secondary. With the obvious improvements on the DL and at LB we should be a much better D next year.

[OpIv37]

Did anyone watch Clements for the last two years? The guy had like 6 good games out of the last 32 and quite a few horrid ones in there. He's not nearly as good as he thinks he is.

[HHURRICANE]

Did anyone watch Clements for the last two years? The guy had like 6 good games out of the last 32 and quite a few horrid ones in there. He's not nearly as good as he thinks he is.

I just posted this on another thread:

In a must win game for the Bills, the Titans ran on 12 of the 13 plays to put their team in field goal range. They started from their own 10 yard line. They were so convinced that they could run on us that they threw the ball once. A top 5 or 6 corner didn't help us aginst a game winning drive.

My grandfather died recently with all of his hair which is amazing for a guy in his 70's. He was in great shape but had a bad heart and they couldn't do anything for him. My aunt was in crappy shape and was about 220 pounds her whole life. She just died in her 90's outliving my grandfather by about 20 years. She had a very strong heart. Do you see the analogy?<!-- / message -->

[Romes]

Did anyone watch Clements for the last two years? The guy had like 6 good games out of the last 32 and quite a few horrid ones in there. He's not nearly as good as he thinks he is.

I agree, the thing is he is still the bills best corner at the moment and will be a tough loss.

That said though I am concerned that if the Bills do sign him to a huge contract he'll revert to his 2005 form...which was putrid.

I don't want clements for big money but I also don't want McGee as our #1 corner (we all saw how he got burned against the lions). What to do... :idunno:

[JPFBillsFan]

Chris Chambers...enough said... he ate the Bills for breakfast lunch and dinner in 2005......Nate did nothing when he was assigned to him....

Money not spent on Nate can address other issues....I agree 100% with this thread and with Marv's philospohy that the preasure applied to a QB up front can make an avg DB/CB into a superstar......Clements is good but not as good as he thinks.....when he's somewhere else looking like FThomas the DB on the Saints this year everyone will be thankful we didn't dole out the cash on him rather than our real problem areas.....

Nate on your way out help us find a new home for Willis...thanksx

[ParanoidAndroid]

I think we might be trying to downplay how important Clements has been. His coaches acknowledge that he is a shutdown corner and the franchise tag should be evidence of that. Youboty may pan out, but he is in no way ready to take on #1 receivers in the NFL and won't be after one offseason. Do I know that for sure? No. But chances are pretty good that I am correct on this one.
Clements was left one-on-one quite often and vey rarely gave up the big play. Because he didn't have safety help due to our need to use the safety in run defense, he played off the line of scrimmage to prevent the big play. He allowed a lot of catches underneath, but he seemed to never miss the tackle.
If we go with Youboty and McGee, we will get killed unless we drastically improve the pass rush, and even then...
Our cornerbacks are much like our receivers. We have one #1 and a bunch of #3's. Everyone after Clements is a nickel back.
We need help at corner.

[RockStar36]

I'm not comfortable w/ Youboty taking over considering he about one game of NFL experience. And McGee as a #1 makes me even more nervous.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Chris Chambers...enough said... he ate the Bills for breakfast lunch and dinner in 2005......Nate did nothing when he was assigned to him....

Money not spent on Nate can address other issues....I agree 100% with this thread and with Marv's philospohy that the preasure applied to a QB up front can make an avg DB/CB into a superstar......Clements is good but not as good as he thinks.....when he's somewhere else looking like FThomas the DB on the Saints this year everyone will be thankful we didn't dole out the cash on him rather than our real problem areas.....

Nate on your way out help us find a new home for Willis...thanksx

The defense was in a soft cover-2 zone in the second half and the safety help was non-existant. That was not all on Clements, but he is partially to blame. It was also an example of a lack of in-game adjustment, a testament to poor safety play all year and Vincent and Milloy's fading abilities. Lo and behold, the new coaching staff goes and gets 2 safeties in the draft, and both are starting while Clements gets the franchise tag. :scratch:

[TacklingDummy]

Create a pass rush and many CBs will look good. The Bills need a better DE then Aaron "Here 1 game, take the next 5 off" Schobel.

[feelthepain]

This team is one FA market and draft class from making the playoffs:



Uhhhhh, yeah!





My grandfather died recently with all of his hair which is amazing for a guy in his 70's. He was in great shape but had a bad heart and they couldn't do anything for him. My aunt was in crappy shape and was about 220 pounds her whole life. She just died in her 90's outliving my grandfather by about 20 years. She had a very strong heart. Do you see the analogy?


No disrespect to your relatives, but that's not the same kind of heart. Having heart like you are trying to compare, is mental, not physical.

[Mitchy moo]

Uhhhhh, yeah!

No disrespect to your relatives, but that's not the same kind of heart. Having heart like you are trying to compare, is mental, not physical.

FTP, your team is so far away from the playoffs, they make the Bills look like their winning it this year so I would drop it.

[eyedog]

You guys must be blind or high. 6 out of 32 ?????

And if he leaves they will definitely have to bring in another legit corner regardless of what Youboty or tiny McGee do.

Your gonna miss him next season when the other teams #1 kills us the whole game. Who on this roster will be taking over that job ?????

[patmoran2006]

I dont think there is any way that Youboty goes from barely playing as a rookie to being our team's #1 CB in just one season; and lining up against the opposition's best WR.

If we lose Clements and we likely will-- Then we have to find a corner in FA that is at least immediate-starter material- even if its only for one year while YOuboty continues to learn the NFL game.

Its possible that we could use our first rounder on a corner, but I highly doubt that as it makes the Youboty first day pick last year a pick that was made for a career nickel back?

[feelthepain]

FTP, your team is so far away from the playoffs, they make the Bills look like their winning it this year so I would drop it.

The only people on the planet that think the Bills are closer to the playoffs then the Fins are Bill fans, but you keep the dream alive.

[patmoran2006]

Create a pass rush and many CBs will look good. The Bills need a better DE then Aaron "Here 1 game, take the next 5 off" Schobel.

I agree with your first sentence and the second one is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life. There are 30 teams who wish they had Schobel.

[Mitchy moo]

you keep the dream alive.

FTP's real dream:

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/DGV/DGV320/427006.jpg

[feelthepain]

FTP's real dream:

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/DGV/DGV320/427006.jpg

Ya know, you and Justa should keep stuff like that to yourselves, nobody wants to see that!

[Bulldog]

The only people on the planet that think the Bills are closer to the playoffs then the Fins are Bill fans, but you keep the dream alive.

Yeah Skooby. Miami is in such great shape that their savior, Saban, decided to quit and go back to the college ranks. If Miami isn't in the bowl next year, I will really be surprised. As I have been for the past two decades. Miami is much further ahead than Buffalo, so much so, that they lost to them twice last season. FTP's post = STUPID!

[feelthepain]

Yeah Skooby. Miami is in such great shape that their savior, Saban, decided to quit and go back to the college ranks. If Miami isn't in the bowl next year, I will really be surprised. As I have been for the past two decades. Miami is much further ahead than Buffalo, so much so, that they lost to them twice last season. FTP's post = STUPID!

Yeah and the Bills lost to the Lions who we beat, we beat the Pats you lost to them twice, we beat the Bears you were destoryed by them, so whats your point? We had the 4th ranked D, you had the 18th, we had the 20th ranked O you had the 27th, so what's your point beside not knowing an damn thing about football??

[Bulldog]

Yeah and the Bills lost to the Lions who we beat, we beat the Pats you lost to them twice, we beat the Bears you were destoryed by them, so whats your point? We had the 4th ranked D, you had the 18th, we had the 20th ranked O you had the 27th, so what's your point beside not knowing an damn thing about football??

And MIAMI lost to BUFFALO twice, with a real beat down in the second game. Buffalo finished with a better record, despite playing the toughest schedule in the entire NFL. Besides being a complete tool, what's your point?

[Bulldog]

Yeah and the Bills lost to the Lions who we beat, we beat the Pats you lost to them twice, we beat the Bears you were destoryed by them, so whats your point? We had the 4th ranked D, you had the 18th, we had the 20th ranked O you had the 27th, so what's your point beside not knowing an damn thing about football??

Further more, pretty convenient of you to point out the games that favor your argument. Never mind the fact that Buffalo split with the Jets while Miami lost both games, beat Green Bay who Miami lost to, beat Houston who Miami lost to, beat Jacksonville who Miami lost to. Owned. Better luck next time!

[feelthepain]

Further more, pretty convenient of you to point out the games that favor your argument. Never mind the fact that Buffalo split with the Jets while Miami lost both games, beat Green Bay who Miami lost to, beat Houston who Miami lost to, beat Jacksonville who Miami lost to. Owned. Better luck next time!


Uh Genius.... we beat three playoff teams this year, the Bills beat the Jets! We beat a team in the SB and another that could have been in the SB. But the Bills beat only one team with a wining record, those are facts not "in my teams favor". I could care less how you want to do this, but Miami beat the good teams, that means they can, the Bills didn't beat the good teams, that means they can't! Enough said! It's eaiser to beat a weakened division rival, because you know their strengths and weaknesses better, so you have a slight edge when palying an injured division rival.

Live all you want off the two Miami wins, the only ones who care about that are Bill fans, it has nothing to do with the Bills being a better team, beat the Bears, beat the Pats, beat the Chargers all in one season and that proves you're improving. The Bills had a chance to beat all three teams but couldn't, but you beat a 6-10 Dolphins team and you're teams better?? What drugs are you on? Seriously?

[HHURRICANE]

The only people on the planet that think the Bills are closer to the playoffs then the Fins are Bill fans, but you keep the dream alive.

You forgot about the guys that do Redzone on NFL Sirrius. They said we should be a playoff team in 2007 on yesterday's show.

[HHURRICANE]

Uh Genius.... we beat three playoff teams this year, the Bills beat the Jets! We beat a team in the SB and another that could have been in the SB. But the Bills beat only one team with a wining record, those are facts not "in my teams favor". I could care less how you want to do this, but Miami beat the good teams, that means they can, the Bills didn't beat the good teams, that means they can't! Enough said! It's eaiser to beat a weakened division rival, because you know their strengths and weaknesses better, so you have a slight edge when palying an injured division rival.

Live all you want off the two Miami wins, the only ones who care about that are Bill fans, it has nothing to do with the Bills being a better team, beat the Bears, beat the Pats, beat the Chargers all in one season and that proves you're improving. The Bills had a chance to beat all three teams but couldn't, but you beat a 6-10 Dolphins team and you're teams better?? What drugs are you on? Seriously?

$1,000 straight up that we finish better than the Dolphins in 2007. I'll give you the Charity I want my winnings sent to.

[more cowbell]

the bills cant keep letting thier star players go due to free agency or large cap hits

we let pat williams go...now look at the run defense
we cut ruben brown now look at the offensive line (especially the guards)
when we first let peerless price go look at the offense that season
we let go of travis henry...now most people want a new RB
we didnt re sign jonas jennings...and we didnt have a left tackle now until peters


everytime we let a player who makes/wants a lot of money go we end up paying big time for it on the field and it takes way too long to replace these guys. Not to mencion not every free agent brought in is going to make as good of an impact as the players already here...take a look at larry tripplet for example.

give nate the money a corner of his calliber is too hard to find and too important to lose especially with a young defense/team with only a few pices missing.

[texasphinsfan]

I just hope McGee has a better year than last. Clements is an amazing shutdown corner. I hope Youboty can do the same, because I don't think McGee can.
what McGee lacks in corner ability (from Clements), he makes up for in speed and special teams.

Hey, at least you're not losing both.

The Clements deal is a dilemma.... on one hand he IS a top corner in the league, on the other he wants top money. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[texasphinsfan]

$1,000 straight up that we finish better than the Dolphins in 2007. I'll give you the Charity I want my winnings sent to.
unrelated, but i'll bet you that $1,000 that the dolphins will finish better than 3-13, as you predicted. :)

[texasphinsfan]

i will add that the Bills are closer to the playoffs than we are...

[HHURRICANE]

everytime we let a player who makes/wants a lot of money go we end up paying big time for it on the field and it takes way too long to replace these guys. Not to mencion not every free agent brought in is going to make as good of an impact as the players already here...take a look at larry tripplet for example.

give nate the money a corner of his calliber is too hard to find and too important to lose especially with a young defense/team with only a few pices missing.

Some of the losses were salary cap related. I'm pretty sure Rueben was. I do agree that you can't lose a player without having a decent replacement or plan in place. I'll be the first to go nuts if Clements walks and we get a bunch of B-level talent in FA. However, if Clemets walks and we bring on a Briggs, Deilman, Steinbach or Freeney than I can live with the front office and their decision.

I remember everyone saying that we couldn't keep Jennings and Williams but dumb-ass TD let them both walk. I don't think Marv would be here if Wilson wasn't going to let him build a winner. March 3rd will answer a lot of questions.

[HHURRICANE]

unrelated, but i'll bet you that $1,000 that the dolphins will finish better than 3-13, as you predicted. :)

Although I was a little over zealous the other day I will consider the bet once the draft and FA are done. You seem like a good guy and I'm really not trying to tick you off. I just think your QB sitaution is downright scary. However, if you landed Schaub your team could make a miraculous recovery. Seems like Arthur "shooting" Blanks is dead set on not letting anyone know that it was him who gave Vick herpes. If I were Miami I would make every effort to get Schaub. I've seen him play and he's worth your first rounder. As much as I like Losman I could live with a QB battle if he showed up.

[Bulldog]

Uh Genius.... we beat three playoff teams this year, the Bills beat the Jets! We beat a team in the SB and another that could have been in the SB. But the Bills beat only one team with a wining record, those are facts not "in my teams favor". I could care less how you want to do this, but Miami beat the good teams, that means they can, the Bills didn't beat the good teams, that means they can't! Enough said! It's eaiser to beat a weakened division rival, because you know their strengths and weaknesses better, so you have a slight edge when palying an injured division rival.

Live all you want off the two Miami wins, the only ones who care about that are Bill fans, it has nothing to do with the Bills being a better team, beat the Bears, beat the Pats, beat the Chargers all in one season and that proves you're improving. The Bills had a chance to beat all three teams but couldn't, but you beat a 6-10 Dolphins team and you're teams better?? What drugs are you on? Seriously?

What drugs are you on? Miami didn't even play San Diego this year. And while it's great that Miami beat three playoff teams this year, they also lost to some pretty bad teams. Houston and Green Bay come to mind. Miami also finished 1-5 in the AFC East. And if Miami is an "improving team", shouldn't Buffalo's two victories over them be considered good wins? And how is it again that Buffalo's two wins over Miami have nothig to do with Buffalo being the better team? What better way to determine the better team than head to head results. You come in here every off-season and run the same crap. Granted, neither team was very good this year, but Buffalo is the better team. Again, Buffalo finished with a better record than Miami despite playing the most difficult schedule in the NFL. Care to explain that one to me? Spin it any way you want, but in the end 16-6 and 21-0 tell me everything I need to know.

[kernowboy]

I am actually very comfortable with Youboty not having played much last year. He has practised a held of a lot and should know the defensive scheme inside out

How many times have we seen a R1 rookie, thrown to the wolves. What we have is a one season player, who many consider carried a R1 grade having had the chance to learn the system

I am a hell of a lot more comfortable starting Youboty than I am drafting and starting Hall, Revis, Hughes, Aaron Ross (?) etc

[ParanoidAndroid]

Uhhhhh, yeah!





No disrespect to your relatives, but that's not the same kind of heart. Having heart like you are trying to compare, is mental, not physical.

I remember a thread from a couple of days ago about how you have been a victim of trash talk and disrespectful and immature fans on this site.
Right here is an example of you coming into a good discussion and turning it into a smack session. Not only that, you misinterpreted the analogy.
Fork the thread and take it to the smack zone.
That goes for the ones who compounded the issue by smacking back. (Skooby) :shakeno:

[OpIv37]

give nate the money a corner of his calliber is too hard to find and too important to lose especially with a young defense/team with only a few pices missing.

do you watch the games? Nate isn't that good- he's above average maybe but not spectacular.

Someone said "he doesn't give up the big play". Yeah, but he gives up ALL the underneath stuff every time cuz he gambles to prevent the big play. The guy is not a shut down corner and not worth hosing our cap and not being able to fix the DL.

[OpIv37]

I swear some of you have no long-term memory.

Nate has a few good games at the end of 06 and you guys completely forget about 05 and the first half of 06 where any nickel back could have given us that kind of effort for half the money. Even in '04, his selfish act of going for an INT on 4th down instead of knocking the ball away cost us the Jacksonville game, and we finished one game out of the playoffs that year.

The guy had basically 2 good seasons when we had incredible defenses, and he gets labeled a "shut down corner". The truth is that he doesn't play well without a ton of support around him, and he gambles to make himself look better.

He's not worth hosing our cap.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Is Nate worth top NFL money? Probably not. Was he an important part of our sucess on defense? You bet.
Not replacing him with something better than we currently have on the roster would be a big mistake IMHO, as would giving him a big time pay day.
Nate is somewhere in the middle...he's not as good as some think and he's not as bad as some think. I would put him in the top 5-10 CB's in the league, but not top 5.

[feelthepain]

$1,000 straight up that we finish better than the Dolphins in 2007. I'll give you the Charity I want my winnings sent to.

You're willing to wager on something you have no control over? As I've said, I'll wager a "you're right, I'm wrong" nothing more. It doesn't change my conviction, Im just not stupid enough to gamble. A gentelmens bet should be good enough. If not, that's just tough! Tell you what, since you're so giving, place that bet with yourself, win you give your charity 100$ lose give them a 1000$, Mr. Charitable, you shouldn't use gambling as an excuse to do something nice for someone else anyways.

[OpIv37]

Is Nate worth top NFL money? Probably not. Was he an important part of our sucess on defense? You bet.
Not replacing him with something better than we currently have on the roster would be a big mistake IMHO, as would giving him a big time pay day.
Nate is somewhere in the middle...he's not as good as some think and he's not as bad as some think. I would put him in the top 5-10 CB's in the league, but not top 5.

I think we need to look elsewhere- Samuel or Ricky Manning Jr. We can do better than either overpaying him or using someone on our current roster.

[Luisito23]

I'm liking your style OP...:beers:...




GO BILLS!!!!!

[feelthepain]

What drugs are you on? Miami didn't even play San Diego this year. And while it's great that Miami beat three playoff teams this year, they also lost to some pretty bad teams. Houston and Green Bay come to mind. Miami also finished 1-5 in the AFC East. And if Miami is an "improving team", shouldn't Buffalo's two victories over them be considered good wins? And how is it again that Buffalo's two wins over Miami have nothig to do with Buffalo being the better team? What better way to determine the better team than head to head results. You come in here every off-season and run the same crap. Granted, neither team was very good this year, but Buffalo is the better team. Again, Buffalo finished with a better record than Miami despite playing the most difficult schedule in the NFL. Care to explain that one to me? Spin it any way you want, but in the end 16-6 and 21-0 tell me everything I need to know.


Face it, the Bills only beat one good team this year, the Jets. The Bills also lose to almost the worst team in the league the Lions. You have the 27th ranked O and the 28th ranked run D, so what you beat the fins twice, you still only win one more game this year and that's with a realtively healthy team, Miami was injured across the board on O, thier top FA pick up in 06 wasn't fully recovered from his 05 knee injury, our top ranked rushing attack was missing half the of the backfield in Ricky Williams, your team wasn't missing anyone and you still lose to the Lions a week after you were killed by the Bears. Like I said ignore the facts just so you can lie to yourself about the two Dolphin wins......woooppeeeee, you beat a 6-10 team twice, look out you're SB bound!!!

[feelthepain]

I remember a thread from a couple of days ago about how you have been a victim of trash talk and disrespectful and immature fans on this site.
Right here is an example of you coming into a good discussion and turning it into a smack session. Not only that, you misinterpreted the analogy.
Fork the thread and take it to the smack zone.
That goes for the ones who compounded the issue by smacking back. (Skooby) :shakeno:

Wheres the smack??? Because I disagree???

[ParanoidAndroid]

It's your obvious sarcasm. Bah....why should I bother?

set to ignore

[texasphinsfan]

Although I was a little over zealous the other day I will consider the bet once the draft and FA are done. You seem like a good guy and I'm really not trying to tick you off. I just think your QB sitaution is downright scary. However, if you landed Schaub your team could make a miraculous recovery. Seems like Arthur "shooting" Blanks is dead set on not letting anyone know that it was him who gave Vick herpes. If I were Miami I would make every effort to get Schaub. I've seen him play and he's worth your first rounder. As much as I like Losman I could live with a QB battle if he showed up.
point taken, and i respect your honesty.

i think this post here was a little more objective than your "3-13" post the other day. I am not saying we're going to the playoffs, i just think you have to give us credit where it's due. i'm satisfied. thanks. ;)

and lol @ the Blank/Vick comment. it is interesting to see where they will go from here. i am curious to see what language Petrino put in the contract to give him some sort of leverage with deciding futures of players that the team might have been "married" to...

[texasphinsfan]

I think we need to look elsewhere- Samuel or Ricky Manning Jr. We can do better than either overpaying him or using someone on our current roster.
Samuel will cost more than Clements, and Ricky Manning Jr. is a criminal headcase who isn't as good as Clements.

personally, i just like him. I know you are down on him, and while he might not have been champ bailey every play, he is better than you give him credit for. Try having Reggie Howard as your corner for a year or two and you'll be screaming for Nate back. ;)

[OpIv37]

Samuel will cost more than Clements, and Ricky Manning Jr. is a criminal headcase who isn't as good as Clements.

personally, i just like him. I know you are down on him, and while he might not have been champ bailey every play, he is better than you give him credit for. Try having Reggie Howard as your corner for a year or two and you'll be screaming for Nate back. ;)

maybe he's better than I'm giving him credit for, but is he $25 million in guaranteed money that counts against the cap good? I don't think so.

[Al13]

FTP, your team is so far away from the playoffs, they make the Bills look like their winning it this year so I would drop it.

actually i think we are a FA and Draft class away from making the PO´s too

[Mitchy moo]

actually i think we are a FA and Draft class away from making the PO&#180;s too

If you have to play the Bills twice I would say probably not. You are a real head coach, loss of MM, a real QB, 2 good Drafts & 3 big FA's away, so anotherwards a long long away.

[Tatonka]

Did anyone watch Clements for the last two years? The guy had like 6 good games out of the last 32 and quite a few horrid ones in there. He's not nearly as good as he thinks he is.

your so wrong..

look at what the opposing teams top wr did against him.. 99% of the time it was nothing.. the only game i really remember clements getting beat was that miami game 2 seasons ago.

he consistently just dominates the likes of chad johnson, marvin harrison, chris chambers, coles, ect..

you can say what you want but clements is as solid as it gets at corner... and he will get paid like it.

[texasphinsfan]

maybe he's better than I'm giving him credit for, but is he $25 million in guaranteed money that counts against the cap good? I don't think so.
you could make a case for that... but the trump card that would get you (IMO) would be "who's out there that's cheaper and better?"

[HHURRICANE]

You're willing to wager on something you have no control over? As I've said, I'll wager a "you're right, I'm wrong" nothing more. It doesn't change my conviction, Im just not stupid enough to gamble. A gentelmens bet should be good enough. If not, that's just tough! Tell you what, since you're so giving, place that bet with yourself, win you give your charity 100$ lose give them a 1000$, Mr. Charitable, you shouldn't use gambling as an excuse to do something nice for someone else anyways.

Wish I saw this sooner. Translation:

http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2454968233 (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiJMEbhFKBoAGmmJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjdmNoOTVjBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=1fpatatdv/EXP=1169777356/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo.com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253Fp%253Dchicken%2526fr%253Dyfp-t-501%2526toggle%253D1%2526cop%253Dmss%2526ei%253DUTF-8%26w=500%26h=404%26imgurl=www.squirrelly.org%252Fphotos%252Fmisc%252Fchicken.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.squirrelly.org%252Fphotos%252Fmisc%252Fchicken.html%26size=54.1kB%26name=chicken.jpg%26p=chicken%26type=jpeg%26no=2%26tt=1,005,045%26oid=acb1a4066b74c540%26ei=UTF-8)

[feelthepain]

If you have to play the Bills twice I would say probably not. You are a real head coach, loss of MM, a real QB, 2 good Drafts & 3 big FA's away, so anotherwards a long long away.


What about your 28th ranked run D? What about your 28th ranked rushing attack, what about your 27th ranked passing attack? The Bills were almost last in every single statistic on O, I guess the Bills are going to have a starter from every single DP because you think all you need is 1 FA and one draft class to be a playoff team. I guess you think your O-line is good, your D-line is good and you LB's are good...right?? Your GM is so scared to let your QB run the O that he limits what he can do to minimize his mistakes. Notice I said GM....that wasn't a mistake!

That's why your passing game was ranked so low. You see things that aren't there and what about the talent you're getting ready to lose? You plan on replacing that or are you just gonna let the backups start? But you go ahead and keep thinking you're that close.

[OpIv37]

your so wrong..

look at what the opposing teams top wr did against him.. 99% of the time it was nothing.. the only game i really remember clements getting beat was that miami game 2 seasons ago.

he consistently just dominates the likes of chad johnson, marvin harrison, chris chambers, coles, ect..

you can say what you want but clements is as solid as it gets at corner... and he will get paid like it.

I know he'll get paid like it but he doesn't deserve it. The guy chokes at important times and got eaten alive for most of 05 and the first half of 06. He either cheats deep to prevent the big play and gives up the underneath stuff (like he did against Chambers), or cheats underneath to get INT's and gets beat deep. He also hasn't been making solid tackles lately.

[feelthepain]

Wish I saw this sooner. Translation:

http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2454968233 (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiJMEbhFKBoAGmmJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjdmNoOTVjBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=1fpatatdv/EXP=1169777356/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo.com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253Fp%253Dchicken%2526fr%253Dyfp-t-501%2526toggle%253D1%2526cop%253Dmss%2526ei%253DUTF-8%26w=500%26h=404%26imgurl=www.squirrelly.org%252Fphotos%252Fmisc%252Fchicken.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.squirrelly.org%252Fphotos%252Fmisc%252Fchicken.html%26size=54.1kB%26name=chicken.jpg%26p=chicken%26type=jpeg%26no=2%26tt=1,005,045%26oid=acb1a4066b74c540%26ei=UTF-8)


If I cared, that might matter, but I don't, so it doesn't!

[Bert102176]

HHURRICANE sorry to hear about your relatives, and on another topic according to ESPN their mock draft has the Bills taking Leon Hall a CB with the #12 pick which would Upset me greatly

[jamze132]

Chris Chambers...enough said... he ate the Bills for breakfast lunch and dinner in 2005......Nate did nothing when he was assigned to him....

Money not spent on Nate can address other issues....I agree 100% with this thread and with Marv's philospohy that the preasure applied to a QB up front can make an avg DB/CB into a superstar......Clements is good but not as good as he thinks.....when he's somewhere else looking like FThomas the DB on the Saints this year everyone will be thankful we didn't dole out the cash on him rather than our real problem areas.....

Nate on your way out help us find a new home for Willis...thanksx
Never underestimate a QB named Gus! LOL

[Tatonka]

you guys are looking at one bad game against chambers..

i am talking about the boat loads of top wrs that nate has consistently shut down.

other than chambers.. when is the last time an elite wr killed us?

[eyedog]

I can think of two bad games he had. The Dolphin game down in Miami{Chambers and the worst coached game I've ever seen}, and the Chargers in San Diego a couple of years ago.

[texasphinsfan]

maybe he's better than I'm giving him credit for, but is he $25 million in guaranteed money that counts against the cap good? I don't think so.
if you ask me, given his skill level and what he can contribute, i think he is worth that (obviously over a period of several years).

now, the question remains whether it is worth that much for your team to spend that amount on a player at that position.

now that is what is up to debate. and the bills may not need a corner that bad. i don't know. but i know other teams do, and Clements will surely get what he's worth in the open market if you guys let him walk.

either way it will be interesting to watch how this pans out. i know i wouldn't mind if the dolphins spent that on him.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Feelmyvein
Face it, the Bills only beat one good team this year, the Jets. The Bills also lose to almost the worst team in the league the Lions. You have the 27th ranked O and the 28th ranked run D, so what you beat the fins twice, you still only win one more game this year and that's with a realtively healthy team, Miami was injured across the board on O, thier top FA pick up in 06 wasn't fully recovered from his 05 knee injury, our top ranked rushing attack was missing half the of the backfield in Ricky Williams, your team wasn't missing anyone and you still lose to the Lions a week after you were killed by the Bears. Like I said ignore the facts just so you can lie to yourself about the two Dolphin wins......woooppeeeee, you beat a 6-10 team twice, look out you're SB bound!!!

I never said Buffalo was SB bound. But they are better than Miami. You come in here every year and make excuses as to why Miami sucked. Injuries are part of the game and every team has them. Buffalo had their fair share of them this past season. Stop making excuses and just come to grips with the fact that Miami is a pretty lousy team. Again, Buffalo had the hardest schedule in the NFL, yet finished with a better record than Miami and beat them twice in head to head match ups. You still haven't explained that one to me yet.

[texasphinsfan]

I never said Buffalo was SB bound. But they are better than Miami. You come in here every year and make excuses as to why Miami sucked. Injuries are part of the game and every team has them. Buffalo had their fair share of them this past season. Stop making excuses and just come to grips with the fact that Miami is a pretty lousy team. Again, Buffalo had the hardest schedule in the NFL, yet finished with a better record than Miami and beat them twice in head to head match ups. You still haven't explained that one to me yet.
i wouldn't call us a lousy team... (and i know i will be blasted for saying this). But i think we are a 9-7 team that just had really bad coaching. We had largely the same personnel from 2005 (minus only frerotte and ricky), yet underperformed and were NOT prepared for a lot of games. I think that reflects more on coaching than anything else. i will concede we had lousy coaches.

but i don't mean to derail the thread. sorry! back on topic....

[Bulldog]

I don't think Saban was that bad of a coach. He made some questioable personnel moves and let Mularky have too much say in the offensive game plans.

[feelthepain]

Originally posted by Feelmyvein
Face it, the Bills only beat one good team this year, the Jets. The Bills also lose to almost the worst team in the league the Lions. You have the 27th ranked O and the 28th ranked run D, so what you beat the fins twice, you still only win one more game this year and that's with a realtively healthy team, Miami was injured across the board on O, thier top FA pick up in 06 wasn't fully recovered from his 05 knee injury, our top ranked rushing attack was missing half the of the backfield in Ricky Williams, your team wasn't missing anyone and you still lose to the Lions a week after you were killed by the Bears. Like I said ignore the facts just so you can lie to yourself about the two Dolphin wins......woooppeeeee, you beat a 6-10 team twice, look out you're SB bound!!!

I never said Buffalo was SB bound. But they are better than Miami. You come in here every year and make excuses as to why Miami sucked. Injuries are part of the game and every team has them. Buffalo had their fair share of them this past season. Stop making excuses and just come to grips with the fact that Miami is a pretty lousy team. Again, Buffalo had the hardest schedule in the NFL, yet finished with a better record than Miami and beat them twice in head to head match ups. You still haven't explained that one to me yet.

No the Bills are not better then the fins. I don't care what you think, the Dolphins were picked to win the division last year...were the Bills? No! Why? Because they aren't that good! We were picked to win the division because of Daunte and our D, well our D played up to the Billing, but Daunte was still not ready to play after his knee injury, not unexpected, it took Willis two years to recover and it took E.James two years to recover. That's why Daunte only played 4 games.

I know Bill fans want to live in some fantasy world where your team is better then they really are, but Miami was 6-10 because of three things, massive injuries to the Oline, No Daunte and no Ricky Williams oh, and Ronnie missing three games didn't help. The Bills were 7-9 because thats all they are.

Now you'r gonna lose Nate and London and maybe TKO, who knows. You really have no quality QB, JP had an OK year, but nothing special, he's certainly no Peyton or Tom or even Delhome or Bulger. He's just avg. Willis while I think he's got a lot of skill, you may not see it till he's with another team, cause he really doesn't want to be in Buffalo, nobody does! Your owners cheap and they refuse to build a winner in Buffalo, that's why every year players want out of Buffalo. It is what it is deal with it.

[Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Feelmyvein
No the Bills are not better then the fins. I don't care what you think, the Dolphins were picked to win the division last year...were the Bills? No! Why? Because they aren't that good! We were picked to win the division because of Daunte and our D, well our D played up to the Billing, but Daunte was still not ready to play after his knee injury, not unexpected, it took Willis two years to recover and it took E.James two years to recover. That's why Daunte only played 4 games.

I know Bill fans want to live in some fantasy world where your team is better then they really are, but Miami was 6-10 because of three things, massive injuries to the Oline, No Daunte and no Ricky Williams oh, and Ronnie missing three games didn't help. The Bills were 7-9 because thats all they are.

Now you'r gonna lose Nate and London and maybe TKO, who knows. You really have no quality QB, JP had an OK year, but nothing special, he's certainly no Peyton or Tom or even Delhome or Bulger. He's just avg. Willis while I think he's got a lot of skill, you may not see it till he's with another team, cause he really doesn't want to be in Buffalo, nobody does! Your owners cheap and they refuse to build a winner in Buffalo, that's why every year players want out of Buffalo. It is what it is deal with it.Originally Posted by Feelmyvein

Talk about grasping for straws. Miami is the better team because the so called experts picked them to win the division? Wow, never heard that one before. Too bad they finished 1-5 in that very same division! Shows you how much the experts know. And stop crying about the injuries. Miami's O-Line sucks, case closed. Hell, Buffalo started four rookies on defense at times during the season as a result of injuries and you don't hear any of us using that as an excuse. And exactly who's fault is it for relying on a known drug abuser to be a focal point off their offense? Face it, Ronnie Brown can't handle the full load, no different than when he was at Auburn. And stop will all this Culpepper talk. The guy has been average to below average for a few years now. His crappy play is nothing new and I have a hard time laying it all on the injury. Carson Palmer seemed to look pretty good this year, as did Brees. They both suffered serious injuries prior to this season. Just admit that you savior, Saban, screwed the pooch in taking Culpecker over Brees and lets move on. And nobody ever said Losman was in the same class as Brady or Manning. They're two of the best QB's in the game. You act like QB's with Mannings and Brady's skill grow on trees. Look at Losmans stats after the bye week and he's above average by all accounts. Don't be a hater because Miami's QB situation is a joke. Hell, CLEO LEMON outplayed both Harrington and Culpepper.

[Mitchy moo]

No the Bills are not better then the fins. I don't care what you think, the Dolphins were picked to win the division last year...were the Bills? No! Why? Because they aren't that good! We were picked to win the division because of Daunte and our D, well our D played up to the Billing, but Daunte was still not ready to play after his knee injury, not unexpected, it took Willis two years to recover and it took E.James two years to recover. That's why Daunte only played 4 games.

I know Bill fans want to live in some fantasy world where your team is better then they really are, but Miami was 6-10 because of three things, massive injuries to the Oline, No Daunte and no Ricky Williams oh, and Ronnie missing three games didn't help. The Bills were 7-9 because thats all they are.

Now you'r gonna lose Nate and London and maybe TKO, who knows. You really have no quality QB, JP had an OK year, but nothing special, he's certainly no Peyton or Tom or even Delhome or Bulger. He's just avg. Willis while I think he's got a lot of skill, you may not see it till he's with another team, cause he really doesn't want to be in Buffalo, nobody does! Your owners cheap and they refuse to build a winner in Buffalo, that's why every year players want out of Buffalo. It is what it is deal with it.

Dude, we handed your team it's AZZ twice OK? Do you know what ownership means and to be schooled? You had Daunte in one time and joey another and your D played OK but not good enough. Plan on a long road home and a few more bad seasons with your new coaches trying to figure things out.

You don't have to worry about the Bills owners nor the coaches, we beat you and you need to worry about your team.

[feelthepain]

Talk about grasping for straws. Miami is the better team because the so called experts picked them to win the division? Wow, never heard that one before. Too bad they finished 1-5 in that very same division! Shows you how much the experts know.

Yeah the experts are never right!


And stop crying about the injuries. Miami's O-Line sucks, case closed. Hell, Buffalo started four rookies on defense at times during the season as a result of injuries and you don't hear any of us using that as an excuse. And exactly who's fault is it for relying on a known drug abuser to be a focal point off their offense? Face it, Ronnie Brown can't handle the full load, no different than when he was at Auburn.

Miami's O-line sucks....Hmmmm, coming form you, that's to be expected, why? Because you don't know squat about football, that's why you're a Bill fan and not a very good one at that.

Miami's O-line with all their injuries produced more yards, on the ground and thorugh the air then the Bills and gave up less sacks, and sorry to disappoint you, but not having Daunte, Ricky and a depleated Oline makes a huge difference in this teams perfomance, just because you don't like it, dosen't change the fact the Daunte and Ricky have produced some monster stats in the NFL form their positions, after all they are probowlers!

Rushing Miami: 1673 4.3 avg.

Rushing Buffalo: 1552 3.7 avg

Passing Miami: 3287 205.4 yrds game

Passing Buffalo: 2719 169.9 yrds game

Sacks given up Miami: 41

Sacks given up Buffalo: 47

Miami sesason ending ranking: 20th

Buffalo season ending ranking: 27th

Now I know even as mentally challenged as you are, can see that Miami's numbers across the board are better then Buffalo's on O......AND WE SUCKED ON O!!!! So what does that say about Buffalo?? Hmm?? Genius???


Face it, Ronnie Brown can't handle the full load, no different than when he was at Auburn

He broke a bone in his hand! and BTW, for his career he has better stats then C.Williams, and he has a higher ypc. avg then all but a few of the best RB to ever play the game. Face it!! As usual you don't know your head from a whole in the ground, much less anythng about football.



And nobody ever said Losman was in the same class as Brady or Manning. They're two of the best QB's in the game. You act like QB's with Mannings and Brady's skill grow on trees.

Fianally we agree on something, JP is avg and that's all he'll ever be, he doesn't have the menality to be a top QB, so without that who gives a crap who the Bills QB is he'll never be much beyond the regular season, woopeee!!


Hell, CLEO LEMON outplayed both Harrington and Culpepper.

No he didn't but that yet again proves how little you know! I will say this I'd take Cleo over JP 10 out of 10 times though. BTW do you know who his OC was when he was first drafted into the NFL?? That's right Cam Cameron, uhhh, do you know who deloped Drew Brees and Philip Rivers into NFL caliber QB's? That's right Cam Cameron, you do know who the HC o the Dolphions is now don't you??

BTW, make sure you trash Cam Cameron now and let everyone in the world know how little you know and understand the game of football. I'm sure you'll say all kinds of wonderful stuff about Cam can't this and he can't do that and he'll be nothing without SD!! But uhhhh, what was SD before Cam became thier OC??? That's tight nothing...sorta like the Bills are right now. Oh and one last little tiny itty bitty factoid for you to chew on, with all of Miami's injuries and loss of offensive talent this year, in his first season with the Dolphins as their OC, MM had a better season as OC then Fairchild did...Buffaloballs!!!

[texasphinsfan]

I don't think Saban was that bad of a coach. He made some questioable personnel moves and let Mularky have too much say in the offensive game plans.
i can agree with that.

[texasphinsfan]

Hell, CLEO LEMON outplayed both Harrington and Culpepper.
ain't that crazy?

[Bulldog]

Hey FTP, ponder these stats for a second :

Buffalo 7-9

Miami 6-10

Scores : 09/17/06 Buffalo 16 Miami 6
12/17/06 Buffalo 21 Miami 0

Division Record : Buffalo 3-3 Miami 1-5


Cry all you want about injuries like you always do. Bottom line is Buffalo beat Miami twice and finished with a better division record and overall record despite playing the toughest schedule in the NFL. You telling me that you would take Cleo Lemon over Losman tells me everthing I need to know about you. You're a blind homer that can't come to grips with the fact that Miami isn't very good and probably won't be for some time.

[Bulldog]

FTP Wrote :You really have no quality QB, JP had an OK year, but nothing special, he's certainly no Peyton or Tom or even Delhome or Bulger.END

One other note, Losman already put up better numbers than Delhomme did this year. Check you facts before you run your mouth.

[feelthepain]

FTP Wrote :You really have no quality QB, JP had an OK year, but nothing special, he's certainly no Peyton or Tom or even Delhome or Bulger.END

One other note, Losman already put up better numbers than Delhomme did this year. Check you facts before you run your mouth.

Jake Delhome has been to the SB, JP hasn't even been to a double digit winning season check your facts.....and just stop posting, your posts have no value.

[feelthepain]

Hey FTP, ponder these stats for a second :

Buffalo 7-9

Miami 6-10

Scores : 09/17/06 Buffalo 16 Miami 6
12/17/06 Buffalo 21 Miami 0

Division Record : Buffalo 3-3 Miami 1-5


Cry all you want about injuries like you always do. Bottom line is Buffalo beat Miami twice and finished with a better division record and overall record despite playing the toughest schedule in the NFL. You telling me that you would take Cleo Lemon over Losman tells me everthing I need to know about you. You're a blind homer that can't come to grips with the fact that Miami isn't very good and probably won't be for some time.


WHO FRIKIN CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one gives a crap the Bills beat the fins twice! It proves nothing, it's what you do over an entire season is what it's about and through an entire season with mostly bakckups our team outperformed yours. We beat the Pats and Bears and Chiefs, you beat the NOBODY!!!! It's like talking to a two year old, you only see what you want not the big picture. Do want to know what your one single more win over the season got you?? Nothing but a worse drafting position.

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=feelthepain We beat the Pats and Bears and Chiefs, you beat the NOBODY!!!! It's like talking to a two year old, you only see what you want not the big picture.[/quote]

Yep, and you got swept by the Jets, we split. You lost to Jacksonville, we beat them. You lost to Green Bay, we beat them. Lost to Houston, we beat them. What's your point? We lost a 1 point game the Colts. if Lindell makes his kick we win. I believe they are in the Superbowl. We lost a squeker to San Diego. You beat the Bears but you still finished 6-10.

Back to our bet that you wussed on because of morality and money. $1,000 to any local charity of your choosing if Miami finishes ahead of Buffalo in the 2007 season. If Buffalo finshes with the better record in 2007 than you post here with JP as your avatar and in your sig you need to have "FTP is Billszone's official *****" for the entire 2008 calander year. The mods can make sure it is all legit!!

[feelthepain]

Yep, and you got swept by the Jets, we split. You lost to Jacksonville, we beat them. You lost to Green Bay, we beat them. Lost to Houston, we beat them. What's your point? We lost a 1 point game the Colts. if Lindell makes his kick we win.

We beat the Lions, and you lose to the Lions and you got swept by the Pats! Again, who cares? Since there was only one game difference you go to the stats to determine the better team, if the Bills had won 4 or 5 more games then Miami and made the playoffs then yes the Bills would be better, but one game isn't really a big difference or seperation. Look at the games that Miami won and the way they won them, beating up both Chicago and NE, while Holding Larry Johnson to less then 100 yards and ending a long winning streak of the KC Chiefs.

Now look at all the Bills wins, they win games against teams that are not very good, have no confidence are dominant on either one sidfe of the ball or on neither side of the ball. Not one win for the Bills this year did anyone say WOW.....Look how awsome the Bills look, not one!! Why?? Because you didn't win against anyone that was really very good, you beat the Jets who make a wildcard game and they fold like a lawnchair against the Pats.

Miami is better then Buffalo in almost every single O and D statistic, we had a bad O because we had so many injuries, If you don't believe me name one coach in the league that would bench Ricky Williams and have Joey Harrington and Sammy Morris as their starting QB and RB! None, Joey was signed as insurance policy to play a few games if needed not the whole season evident by the BACKUP LABLE he had! If he had only played a few games we would have been fine, he played well and he played poorly, he didn't have much help with all the injuries to the Oline and it was his first season with this team. You hope your backup goes into a good situation where the only piece missing is the QB, not both starting RB's and half the Oline. But it was what it was, clearly all the injuries hampered their ability to move the ball efficiently.

As for the bet, why is it you can find a $1000.00 to gamble with over a stupid bet, but you can't just give the $1000.00 to a Charity because you care about a cause? That's sad! You don't give a rats @$$ about Charity, you just think you're proving something to the Bill fans here,like I give a crap. I told you I'd make a gentlemens bet, is that not good enough for you? I said I would admit I was wrong if the Bills finish better then the Dolphins and I would expect the same from you if the Dolphins finish better. Take it or leave it, the money or whatever stupid crap you come up with is for children, which I'm guessing you are, since it's so important to you. If it's about conviction and comitment towards a team, I think by taking the abuse I take here proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how I feel about the Dolphins.

If you're so sure your team is better, find a way to take a poll to see how many, "football fans" not Bill fans or Dolphins fans, think the Bills are better. They'll look at your 27th ranked O and your 18th ranked D, then vote for Miami's 20th ranked O and 4th ranked D! Guaranteed!!!

[Bert102176]

losing Nate hurts alot I feel

[Bert102176]

ftp I'm sorry that you are a fin fan I really am maybe one day you'll wake up with a clue, I was at the shut out and it was funny watching the fins have 4 shots on the bills goalline at the end of the game and not be able to do a damn thing with the ball.

[Spiderweb]

Uhhhhh, yeah!





No disrespect to your relatives, but that's not the same kind of heart. Having heart like you are trying to compare, is mental, not physical.

An analogy isn't necessarily to be taken literally, or better yet, verbatum. It fits. Heart to live, heart to play. Whether physical or mental....it's a weak heart v.s strong heart...

But you like to stir the pot...

[HHURRICANE]

As for the bet, why is it you can find a $1000.00 to gamble with over a stupid bet, but you can't just give the $1000.00 to a Charity because you care about a cause? That's sad! You don't give a rats @$$ about Charity, you just think you're proving something to the Bill fans here,like I give a crap. I told you I'd make a gentlemens bet, is that not good enough for you? I said I would admit I was wrong if the Bills finish better then the Dolphins and I would expect the same from you if the Dolphins finish better. Take it or leave it, the money or whatever stupid crap you come up with is for children, which I'm guessing you are, since it's so important to you. If it's about conviction and comitment towards a team, I think by taking the abuse I take here proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how I feel about the Dolphins.


I was right last year and I'll be right this year. I never said a Gentleman's bet wasn't acceptable but I still haven't seen you admit that you were wrong about Miami's 2006 campaign. I've seen alot of excuses like injuries, etc. but you are still talking about how Miami is better than Buffalo when they finished with a worse record.

I'm not sure a "Gentleman's bet" is going to work because you never admit when you are wrong.

I guess we'll see. So it's official. HHurricane is betting FTP that the Bills finish ahead of Miami. Are we set?

[feelthepain]

I was right last year and I'll be right this year. I never said a Gentleman's bet wasn't acceptable but I still haven't seen you admit that you were wrong about Miami's 2006 campaign. I've seen alot of excuses like injuries, etc. but you are still talking about how Miami is better than Buffalo when they finished with a worse record.

I'm not sure a "Gentleman's bet" is going to work because you never admit when you are wrong.

I guess we'll see. So it's official. HHurricane is betting FTP that the Bills finish ahead of Miami. Are we set?

For a Gentelmens bet yes!

As for me not admitting I'm wrong, it's a matter of opinion which teams is better, there is no such thing as right and wrong when it's an opinion! You see things your way and I see them mine, You claim one more win makes you better and I claim Miami's 20th ranked O, 4th ranked D and our 3 wins against playoff teams makes Miami better then Buffalos 27th O, 18th ranked D and 1 win against a playoff team. So I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say I don't admitt when I'm wrong.

[HHURRICANE]

For a Gentelmens bet yes!

As for me not admitting I'm wrong, it's a matter of opinion which teams is better, there is no such thing as right and wrong when it's an opinion! You see things your way and I see them mine, You claim one more win makes you better and I claim Miami's 20th ranked O, 4th ranked D and our 3 wins against playoff teams makes Miami better then Buffalos 27th O, 18th ranked D and 1 win against a playoff team. So I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say I don't admitt when I'm wrong.

Beginning of the 2006 season you said that the Bills would finish behind Miami. They didn't. I think that's pretty simple.

[jmb1099]

For a Gentelmens bet yes!

As for me not admitting I'm wrong, it's a matter of opinion which teams is better, there is no such thing as right and wrong when it's an opinion! You see things your way and I see them mine, You claim one more win makes you better and I claim Miami's 20th ranked O, 4th ranked D and our 3 wins against playoff teams makes Miami better then Buffalos 27th O, 18th ranked D and 1 win against a playoff team. So I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say I don't admitt when I'm wrong.
its really simple, so simple in fact that you should be able to understand it. You won't, but you should be able to so here goes:
If Miami was a better team as you continually claim they are, then they would have beaten the Bills twice and not the other way around. In head to head competition Buffalo Beat Miami's ass...twice. Now to bring this point home for you the team with the most points at the end of the game wins, you do know that right? If we had split the series your argument might be viable, but you lost both games, one of which was a shutout. No one in their right mind would try to declare supremecy over a team that beat them twice with one of those wins being by shut-out.
I guess the key here is "right mind" though

[feelthepain]

Beginning of the 2006 season you said that the Bills would finish behind Miami. They didn't. I think that's pretty simple.

OK, I also was expecting Daunte to play the whole season and I'm certain It was before Ricky was lost for the season, nonetheless if it makes you feel better I guessed wrong about the final records.

[HHURRICANE]

OK, I also was expecting Daunte to play the whole season and I'm certain It was before Ricky was lost for the season, nonetheless if it makes you feel better I guessed wrong about the final records.

After Ricky, before Daunte. Kudos for admitting it.