We are not taking a CB in round one

[ICE74129]

Fans better understand that. Marv knows Line and Linebackers are the key to this defense. Look at the teams in the superbowl. Chicago is starting 2nd and 5th round picks at CB. David for indy was the 29th pick I think and Nick Harris was a CFL guy I think?

Bottom line nate isn't a need, period. BOTH teams have better overall lines than us and MUCH Better linebacker play period. We need a much younger and more versitile ILB and more athleticism than TKO has at OLB. Crowell is fine.

We need better run stuffing and MUCH more pass rush from the DL.

If we improve that, then we can get by with average to decent corners esp with the talent we have at Safety.

My guess is we will sign an OLB, RG, and DT in Free agency. Maybe a CB like harper to compete with Yobotay till he is ready to take over. We will go ILB in round 1, RB in round 2 and BPA for our system rounds 3-7

Again thats my opinion and thoughts on this issue

[RedEyE]

Right, and I agree, but it's obvious that what this staff should do and what they will do are two different things. I too feel they need a fat ass run stuffer on the line, but it's obvious from last year, the Bills staff is looking for a leaner front. They could have had Bunkley or Ngata easily last draft.

Nate's out the door and won't be staying unless he suddenly finds it in his heart to lower his price tag - doubtful. With 6 prolific corners flooding the 1st round, I think they find Nate's replacement there.

Let's look at the Bill's past 1st round picks:

Interesting fun facts. In 46 drafts the Bills have drafted 9 secondary picks in the 1st round. 4 of those 9 came during the Levy Super Bowl era and last year Marv and company took Whitner, another 1st rounder. Let us not forget Simpson (I think in the 4th).

Marv doesn't like wasting picks on non impact players and is none to fond of having rookies mentored into playing a position over a course of two years. He's openly stated all of this. There is hardly a position out there that includes a cast of impact players, but I think that if you had to label a position in which there was a dominate impact player position, that position would be found in the secondary.

Now, the Bills staff uses a democratic approach to their draft board, and if last year was any indication, they strongly prefer drafting "NEED" players rather then increasing the talent pool (like Donahoe). Something that worked fairley well last year. Offensive and defensive line woes can be easily filled in free agency this year. Fewell is losing probably the biggest playmaker on his defense. I can guarantee that he's all gung ho for a more than adequate replacement. We all know Dick Juaron is defensive guy and he's well aware of the amount of talent the Bills have currently on offense. He's going to also be leaning towards filling his defensive gaps as well. Kelsay will probably return for a song (see last weeks article). Fairchild and Mouse will get the Bills first big FA signing this off season as I'm pretty sure the Bills will go after a better interior lineman. Afterall, strengthen your OL, and your running game and your passing game alike should increase in positive performance.

Now the Bills may get lucky and a big draftee lineman might fall to them out of the top 10, but again, from last year, the Bills are going to grab who they want rather then who's available (see Donte Whitner).

The only other thing that I can think of is that the Bills might go after a LB if Fletch flys the coupe, and they feel Spikes is on a serious downslide. But as I stated in the OTHER thread, the Bills will more than likely use the cast of players already in place on the roster to fill Fletch's place.

Corner are also very versatile players. They retreive kicks and make excellent open field takcles. We all know how much the Bills love their ST players. They can't stay away from them.



<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>No Pick</TD><TD align=left>--</TD><TD align=left>--</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Lee Evans</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Wisconsin</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>J.P. Losman</TD><TD align=left>QB</TD><TD align=left>Tulane</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Willis McGahee</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Miami (Fla.)</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Mike Williams</TD><TD align=left>OT</TD><TD align=left>Texas</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Nate Clements</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Ohio State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Erik Flowers</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Arizona State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Antoine Winfield</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Ohio State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>No Pick</TD><TD align=left>--</TD><TD align=left>--</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Antowain Smith</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Houston</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Eric Moulds</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Mississippi State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Reuben Brown</TD><TD align=left>G</TD><TD align=left>Pittsburgh</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Jeff Burris</TD><TD align=left>DB</TD><TD align=left>Notre Dame</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Thomas Smith</TD><TD align=left>DB</TD><TD align=left>North Carolina</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>John Fina</TD><TD align=left>OL</TD><TD align=left>Arizona</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Henry Jones</TD><TD align=left>DB</TD><TD align=left>Illinois</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>James Williams</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Fresno State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>No Pick</TD><TD align=left>--</TD><TD align=left>--</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>No Pick</TD><TD align=left>--</TD><TD align=left>--</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Shane Conlan</TD><TD align=left>LB</TD><TD align=left>Penn State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Ronnie Harmon</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Iowa</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Will Wolford</TD><TD align=left>G</TD><TD align=left>Vanderbilt</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Bruce Smith</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Virginia Tech</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Derrick Burroughs</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Memphis State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Greg Bell</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Notre Dame</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Tony Hunter</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>Notre Dame</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Jim Kelly</TD><TD align=left>QB</TD><TD align=left>Miami</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Perry Tuttle</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Clemson</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Booker Moore</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Penn State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Jim Ritcher</TD><TD align=left>C</TD><TD align=left>North Carolina State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Tom Cousineau</TD><TD align=left>LB</TD><TD align=left>Ohio State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Jerry Butler</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Clemson</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Terry Miller</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Oklahoma State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Phil Dokes</TD><TD align=left>DT</TD><TD align=left>Oklahoma State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Mario Clark</TD><TD align=left>DB</TD><TD align=left>Oregon</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Tom Rudd</TD><TD align=left>LB</TD><TD align=left>Nebraska</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Rueben Gant</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>Oklahoma State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Paul Seymour</TD><TD align=left>T</TD><TD align=left>Michigan</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Joe DeLamielleure</TD><TD align=left>G</TD><TD align=left>Michigan State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Walt Patulski</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Notre Dame</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>J.D. Hill</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Arizona State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Al Cowlings</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Southern California</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>O.J. Simpson</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Southern California</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Haven Moses</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>San Diego State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>
</TD><TD align=left>
</TD><TD align=left>
</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Mike Dennis</TD><TD align=left>HB</TD><TD align=left>Mississippi</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Jim Davidson</TD><TD align=left>T</TD><TD align=left>Ohio State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Carl Eller</TD><TD align=left>T</TD><TD align=left>Minnesota</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Dave Behrman</TD><TD align=left>C</TD><TD align=left>Michigan State</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Ernie Davis</TD><TD align=left>HB</TD><TD align=left>Syracuse</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Ken Rice</TD><TD align=left>T</TD><TD align=left>Auburn</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>Richie Lucas</TD><TD align=left>QB</TD><TD align=left>Penn State</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[ICE74129]

Red I fully understand your thinking, and you may be right, BUT a couple of notes..

1) Marv said he doesn't have time to rebuild the goal is to WIN NOW. That is why I see DT, LB and RG and maybe CB taken with FA's.

2) NEED = Linebackers. Fletcher will be gone. TKO isn't going to make it back, but I see OLB possibly in FA as well.

That leaves draft for ILB. Remember shane Conlan? That is what leads me to believe that Marv will go ILB with #12 considering the outstanding talent there.

[Saratoga Slim]

Fans better understand that. Marv knows Line and Linebackers are the key to this defense. Look at the teams in the superbowl. Chicago is starting 2nd and 5th round picks at CB. David for indy was the 29th pick I think and Nick Harris was a CFL guy I think?

Bottom line nate isn't a need, period. BOTH teams have better overall lines than us and MUCH Better linebacker play period. We need a much younger and more versitile ILB and more athleticism than TKO has at OLB. Crowell is fine.

We need better run stuffing and MUCH more pass rush from the DL.

If we improve that, then we can get by with average to decent corners esp with the talent we have at Safety.

My guess is we will sign an OLB, RG, and DT in Free agency. Maybe a CB like harper to compete with Yobotay till he is ready to take over. We will go ILB in round 1, RB in round 2 and BPA for our system rounds 3-7

Again thats my opinion and thoughts on this issue

Good thoughts.

1. I agree that its unlikely we spend a 1st (or even 2nd) rounder on CB. I expect to see Nate's replacement come from signing an upper mid-range free agent (i.e. someone somewhat less $$ than Clements or Samuel).

2. I think we'll also deal with RG in FA.

3. I think we'll resign Kelsey at DE. If we do I think we're unlikely to invest a 1st or 2nd rounder on DE.

I think that LB, RB, and DT are the biggest strategy calls this offseason, and that one of the three positions will be our first rounder, depending on what FA yields.

1. LB. Whether FA offers any help depends on whether we think Crowell can move to MLB, as the only real attractive FAs are likely to be OLBs. If we do move Crowell inside, we'll only get a significant FA upgrade at OLB if Marv and co want to spend some relatively big $$ on Briggs or Thomas (assuming either makes it to FA). I don't see June being that much of an upgrade for the money he'll cost, but I would not be suprised to see OBD make a serious run for Briggs, even if he is expensive. I'd like to see this addressed in FA, but its a possible 1st round pick--ESPECIALLY if OBD determines that Crowell can't move inside.

2. DT. I'm not enamored with the DT options in FA, but a guy like Robaire Smith or Ian Scott would be an upgrade from Anderson. Whether or not we sign a FA DT depends on how much hope OBD has for improvement from Kyle Williams. If they think he's on his way up, I see help coming by way of a rotational FA like Smith or Scott. If OBD thinks a true star is needed at that DT spot, I think that's where we go first round.

3. RB. Total strategy call, can't wait to see how this shakes out and can't even predict it. Seems fairly obvious to me that McGahee is not really propelling the offense as a feature back, and that we either need to upgrade him or add a 2nd RB with some serious speed and big play skills. I would not be that surprised to see a first round pick at RB depending on who's available.

As of January 25, 2007, my guess is therefore that in rounds one and two we grab some combination of LB, DT and RB. But obviously FA is going to have a major impact on these guesses.

[BillsFever21]

I'm sure ICE will change his mind about 10 times until the draft starts and another 20 times after the draft until the season starts.

[ICE74129]

I'm sure ICE will change his mind about 10 times until the draft starts and another 20 times after the draft until the season starts.

So a person is to sit on an opinion regardless of the change of facts surrounding the issue? That would be stupid.

As of right now we would go DT or LB in the draft. I am 100% certain of that. Now what will we do in FA? If we sign scott and two LB's along with a RG then CB is a possibility.

What I feel is going to happen is DT, RG, OLB and a mid tier CB will be signed. We will go with that mid tier CB and Yobotay fighting it out in camp while we draft our ILB that will anchor the middle for the next 10 years

[Michael82]

It all depends on what we do in free agency. The most talented player at the 12th pick will most likely be a CB. If thats the case and we didn't address the need before hand, I have no doubts that Marv will draft one with that pick.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We drafted Ernie Davis?

[ICE74129]

It all depends on what we do in free agency. The most talented player at the 12th pick will most likely be a CB. If thats the case and we didn't address the need before hand, I have no doubts that Marv will draft one with that pick.


I have to say I fully believe we will sign an OLB to replace spikes, RG, and a mid tier CB along with a DT in FA. We will draft an ILB. Shane Conlan rings home with this pick esp with the talent at LB in the draft this year

[BillsFever21]

So a person is to sit on an opinion regardless of the change of facts surrounding the issue? That would be stupid.

As of right now we would go DT or LB in the draft. I am 100% certain of that. Now what will we do in FA? If we sign scott and two LB's along with a RG then CB is a possibility.

What I feel is going to happen is DT, RG, OLB and a mid tier CB will be signed. We will go with that mid tier CB and Yobotay fighting it out in camp while we draft our ILB that will anchor the middle for the next 10 years

No. People's opinions change depending on certain circumstances. They usually only change once and maybe a year or so down the road and usually don't flop back and forth between opinions.

Most people don't change their opinion on a weekly basis depending on how good or bad somebody played that given week. :LOL:

[ICE74129]

No. People's opinions change depending on certain circumstances. They usually only change once and maybe a year or so down the road and usually don't flop back and forth between opinions.

Most people don't change their opinion on a weekly basis depending on how good or bad somebody played that given week. :LOL:

And I feel ILB is the pick unless FA moves are made

[eyedog]

They damn well better not take a cb with the 12th pick if they feel Nate is expendable. Also I don't see any lb worth taking at #12, thus they will go d-tackle or maybe even d-end if one falls. I also wouldn't be suprised if they try to trade down in the draft.

[THATHURMANATOR]

by the way Ice we are taking a CB in round 1.

[Don't Panic]

Good thoughts.

1. I agree that its unlikely we spend a 1st (or even 2nd) rounder on CB. I expect to see Nate's replacement come from signing an upper mid-range free agent (i.e. someone somewhat less $$ than Clements or Samuel).

2. I think we'll also deal with RG in FA.

3. I think we'll resign Kelsey at DE. If we do I think we're unlikely to invest a 1st or 2nd rounder on DE.

I think that LB, RB, and DT are the biggest strategy calls this offseason, and that one of the three positions will be our first rounder, depending on what FA yields.

1. LB. Whether FA offers any help depends on whether we think Crowell can move to MLB, as the only real attractive FAs are likely to be OLBs. If we do move Crowell inside, we'll only get a significant FA upgrade at OLB if Marv and co want to spend some relatively big $$ on Briggs or Thomas (assuming either makes it to FA). I don't see June being that much of an upgrade for the money he'll cost, but I would not be suprised to see OBD make a serious run for Briggs, even if he is expensive. I'd like to see this addressed in FA, but its a possible 1st round pick--ESPECIALLY if OBD determines that Crowell can't move inside.

2. DT. I'm not enamored with the DT options in FA, but a guy like Robaire Smith or Ian Scott would be an upgrade from Anderson. Whether or not we sign a FA DT depends on how much hope OBD has for improvement from Kyle Williams. If they think he's on his way up, I see help coming by way of a rotational FA like Smith or Scott. If OBD thinks a true star is needed at that DT spot, I think that's where we go first round.

3. RB. Total strategy call, can't wait to see how this shakes out and can't even predict it. Seems fairly obvious to me that McGahee is not really propelling the offense as a feature back, and that we either need to upgrade him or add a 2nd RB with some serious speed and big play skills. I would not be that surprised to see a first round pick at RB depending on who's available.

As of January 25, 2007, my guess is therefore that in rounds one and two we grab some combination of LB, DT and RB. But obviously FA is going to have a major impact on these guesses.

Great post... I agree with everything you said. The one thing I would add is that we may take Jarrett if he interviews/combines well (and he falls to us). I can't see passing up on him. Assuming he and Branch are gone, I would say it'll either be a LB or a RB, depending on free agency and the McGahee situation, respectively.

[Mr. Pink]

We drafted Ernie Davis?



Yes back in the AFL days, NFL teams and AFL teams would end up drafting the same player. For the AFL it was in hopes of getting a star player to decide he wanted to play for what was known and thought of as "the lesser league."

Davis was drafted Number 1 overall in the 1962 NFL draft by the Redskins, then traded away to Cleveland for Bobby Mitchell. And then in the AFL draft 4th overall by the Bills. Obviously playing for the Browns in the NFL with Jim Brown was more enticing than for the Bills because....

Also drafted by the AFL's Buffalo Bills, Davis signed with the Cleveland Browns for less money than what the Bill offered. In Buffalo in July after his senior year, he was booed when introduced in a college all-star game.
http://espn.go.com/classic/s/000801erniedavisadd.html


About the topic, I'd be highly surprised if we took anyone in the secondary on day 1 of the draft.

[DraftBoy]

welcome back Ice, nice to see you in draft mode already

[ICE74129]

welcome back Ice, nice to see you in draft mode already

Thanks buddy, I am looking forward to your evals!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yes back in the AFL days, NFL teams and AFL teams would end up drafting the same player. For the AFL it was in hopes of getting a star player to decide he wanted to play for what was known and thought of as "the lesser league."

Davis was drafted Number 1 overall in the 1962 NFL draft by the Redskins, then traded away to Cleveland for Bobby Mitchell. And then in the AFL draft 4th overall by the Bills. Obviously playing for the Browns in the NFL with Jim Brown was more enticing than for the Bills because....

Also drafted by the AFL's Buffalo Bills, Davis signed with the Cleveland Browns for less money than what the Bill offered. In Buffalo in July after his senior year, he was booed when introduced in a college all-star game.
http://espn.go.com/classic/s/000801erniedavisadd.html


About the topic, I'd be highly surprised if we took anyone in the secondary on day 1 of the draft.
Well good thing we didn't get him since he died before ever playing in the league.

[YardRat]

And we weren't going to take a safety with last year's pick at #8.

I wouldn't be completely shocked if we took a corner this year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If the best corner is on the board and we lose Nate I would think it is a no brainer.

[Saratoga Slim]

welcome back Ice, nice to see you in draft mode already

Yeah, where u been? I was about to start calling hospitals.

[THATHURMANATOR]

he was banned.

[HHURRICANE]

It all depends on what we do in free agency. The most talented player at the 12th pick will most likely be a CB. If thats the case and we didn't address the need before hand, I have no doubts that Marv will draft one with that pick.

I would totally be shocked if we draft a CB. Bringing a vet in makes 10X more sense. Somebody alot more valuable will be sitting at #12. Poluszy or Lynch would both start and be impact players as rookies. A rookie CB seems alot scarier than Yobouty who was supposed to be a first rounder last year.

When did Youboty suck so bad that we need to draft another rookie to start in front of him?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I'd be willing to bet that it depends on the player available and how high he is on the Bills' board more than just a single position of need.
If they have a CB rated higher than any of the players left at DT, LB, DE, or whatever other position for which they feel is a need, CB is the way they will go.
I'm going to guess (because guessing is fun) that I was wrong in my first Bills mock and that the highet rated player of need still on the board will be Patrick Willis.

[ICE74129]

It depends on Free Agency. I just don't see marv taking a CB when he knows in this defense we don't have the athleticism and or size/and speed at LB. DT is still a serious question mark as well.