Thoughts on this.....

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  • alohabillsfan
    Registered User
    • Sep 2003
    • 3206

    Thoughts on this.....

    OK we run the Tampa cover 2 (TC2) just like Indy and Chicago. Indy is 25 yards per game worse against the rush than we were and we had 15 more sacks than Indy but gave up 30 yards passing more per game. Overall we gave up 19.4 yds per game and the colts gave up 22.5. Now anyone that thinks the TC2 is designed to be a dominant run stopper does not know football. The TC2 is designed to take away the "big" play period. it's designed to punish the under routes with LB's and safties hitting backs and receivers immediatley after the catch.

    Now to get this defense in the mold of a chicago defense is to play with the lead, look at Chicago's schedule and you will see why they are "stout" against the run they had big leads

    Greenbay 23 rushes for 103 won 26-0
    Detroit 14 rushes for 46 yards won 34-7
    Minnesota 24 rushes for 97 yards won 19-16
    Seattle 19 rushes for 77 yards won 37-6
    Buffalo 18 rushes for 58 yards 3.2 avg won 40-7
    Arizona 38 rushes for 66 yards 1.7 avg won 24-23
    SF 18 rushes for 130 yards 7.2 avg won 41-10
    Miami 35 rushes 161 yards 4.6 avg lost 13-31
    NYG 22 rushes for 150 yards 6.8 avg lost 38-20
    NYJ 30 rushes 108 yards for 3.6 avg won 10-0
    NE 34 rushes for 85 yards 2.5 avg lost 13-17
    Minn 35 rushes for 192 yards 5.5 avg won 23-13 you really need to look at this!
    STL 22 rushes for 101 yards 4.6 avg won 42-27
    TB 19 rushes for 57 yards 3.0 avg won 34-31
    DET 18 rushes for 67 yards 3.7 avg won 26-21
    GB 34 rushes for 97 yards 2.9 avg lost 7-26
    Seattle 31 rushes for 127 yards 4.1 avg won 27-24

    Look at the games where teams ran 30 plus times 4 out of 7 were losses and 2 should of been Arizona and Minn.


    With that said I do agree we need a more physical MLB (Willis/Siler). Safeties are a premium for this defense and we are set there. We need to resign Hardgrove for depth (this is going to happen) and would like either a FA end or Kelsay resigned. We need another DT (1 Tech) to replace in effective Anderson and possibly another OLB.

    Bottom Line we need== 1 DT, 1 MLB (draft Willis/Siler), Resign our current FA of Hardgrove, Kelsay, and K. Thomas. Additionally, would like an FA OLB and CB.

    And we need an offense that can run the ball! So really who the hell do we draft???????????????????? OT? RB? DT? LB? Hell I don't know!
  • eyedog
    Registered User
    • Jul 2002
    • 1742

    #2
    Re: Thoughts on this.....

    All true. The Tampa-2 is great when playing with a lead, like the Colts usually are. Then the defense can t-off on the pass rush {see Dolphin game in miami}.
    Run stuffing dt, mlb, o-guard.

    Comment

    • ICE74129
      Legendary Zoner
      • Feb 2005
      • 10796

      #3
      Re: Thoughts on this.....

      My thoughts are this....

      LDE needs better production. DB did a great job in listing that runs to the outside have killed us for greater gains than inside, BUT I will state the ones up the middle kept more drives going and IMHO occured more often.

      That said DT, ILB and LDE MUST be drastically upgraded this offseason. Personally I bring in a guy like Briggs and then let TKO and Ellison fight it out at the other OLB position.

      Comment

      • alohabillsfan
        Registered User
        • Sep 2003
        • 3206

        #4
        Re: Thoughts on this.....

        Originally posted by ICE74129
        My thoughts are this....

        LDE needs better production. DB did a great job in listing that runs to the outside have killed us for greater gains than inside, BUT I will state the ones up the middle kept more drives going and IMHO occured more often.

        That said DT, ILB and LDE MUST be drastically upgraded this offseason. Personally I bring in a guy like Briggs and then let TKO and Ellison fight it out at the other OLB position.

        Justin Smith form the Bengals ? LDE Draft Siler MLB round 2? But I really think it's the offense that will make this defense better and specifically running offense! We were a left handed offense (running behind Gandy and Peters) we need the same on the other side! FA OG and RB/OT round 1/3 in either order RB rd 1 ot rd 3 or vice versa!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thoughts on this.....

          I would look to an LE upgrade with Kerney, Grant, maybe Smith

          I think Briggs benefits from teams having to account for Urlacher. Remove Briggs from this situation and he could be only half the player.

          I think Pennington will come back a better player and will be pushed by Butler. Preston was functional at RG but I'd like him back at centre. We need a heavy roadgrader at RG, but in the worst case scenario we play Reyes and fast track the education of Merz as quickly as possible

          Comment

          • OpIv37
            Acid Douching Asswipe
            • Sep 2002
            • 101230

            #6
            Re: Thoughts on this.....

            Originally posted by alohabillsfan
            Now anyone that thinks the TC2 is designed to be a dominant run stopper does not know football. The TC2 is designed to take away the "big" play period.
            And that's why I hate this D and that's why we were 1-7 against playoff teams last year. Mediocre and bad teams win by relying on big plays. Good teams win by running and stopping the run.
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            Comment

            • Saratoga Slim
              Registered User
              • Jul 2005
              • 4154

              #7
              Re: Thoughts on this.....

              Originally posted by OpIv37
              And that's why I hate this D and that's why we were 1-7 against playoff teams last year. Mediocre and bad teams win by relying on big plays. Good teams win by running and stopping the run.
              Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.
              Wake up, brush your teeth, and get ready for a day of hating the Dolphins. Or the Pats? How to choose?

              Comment

              • BillsFever21
                Registered User
                • Aug 2004
                • 9067

                #8
                Re: Thoughts on this.....

                This defense is past it's prime. Outside of Chicago who has stars all around their defense this defense has been pretty putrid.

                Tampa Bay was dominant in it because it was new. Now it's been around for years and teams know how to defend it.

                Unless we can put stars all around our defense then it will never be a great defense.

                Comment

                • BillsFever21
                  Registered User
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 9067

                  #9
                  Re: Thoughts on this.....

                  Originally posted by Saratoga Slim
                  Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.
                  Is Indy's defense good though? Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and a great OL is the reason why they're in the SB.

                  Chicago has studs almost everywhere around that defense. That's why their defense is good.

                  Just because they run this defense doesn't mean it's a great defense because both teams run it. Before this year Tampa was about the only team to run this defense and be in the SB.

                  If we can build an offense like the Colts or put 1st draft day pick studs all around defense then we may come close to equaling their success. But then again we don't have a great coach like Lovie Smith either.

                  Comment

                  • OpIv37
                    Acid Douching Asswipe
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 101230

                    #10
                    Re: Thoughts on this.....

                    Originally posted by Saratoga Slim
                    Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.
                    Chicago has the PERFECT personnel for this D. We'll never have that- we don't have the ability to draw FA's to Buffalo and this team has a lot of holes to fill.

                    Indy has a great offense that forces teams to pass and play into the strength of the D. We don't have that either. And their run D cost them a first round bye and a home playoff game in the second round.

                    It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I really have to question the wisdom of bringing in coordinators and assistants to implement a certain system without considering the implications of using that system with the available personnel and other factors like offensive production.
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                    • DraftBoy
                      Administrator
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 107452

                      #11
                      Re: Thoughts on this.....

                      Originally posted by OpIv37
                      Chicago has the PERFECT personnel for this D. We'll never have that- we don't have the ability to draw FA's to Buffalo and this team has a lot of holes to fill.

                      Indy has a great offense that forces teams to pass and play into the strength of the D. We don't have that either. And their run D cost them a first round bye and a home playoff game in the second round.

                      It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I really have to question the wisdom of bringing in coordinators and assistants to implement a certain system without considering the implications of using that system with the available personnel and other factors like offensive production.

                      I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

                      LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
                      DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
                      DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
                      RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
                      OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
                      ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
                      OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
                      CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
                      CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
                      S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
                      S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

                      They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?
                      COMING SOON...
                      Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
                      We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

                      Comment

                      • casdhf
                        Registered User
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 17542

                        #12
                        Re: Thoughts on this.....

                        They drafted Tank Johnson and Mike Brown has been there forever too
                        Originally posted by BillsZone Mod
                        cas,

                        I'm just letting you know that you have been given 2 points for telling Wys AKA Mark to kill himself.

                        BillsZone Mod

                        Comment

                        • ICE74129
                          Legendary Zoner
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 10796

                          #13
                          Re: Thoughts on this.....

                          Originally posted by DraftBoy
                          I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

                          LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
                          DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
                          DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
                          RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
                          OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
                          ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
                          OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
                          CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
                          CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
                          S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
                          S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

                          They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?
                          In a word...TIME. Marv himself said he wasn't rebuilding and didnt' have time for it. Ralph isn't going to be here (at least in a capasity to run this team) much longer.

                          I am willing to guarantee we make some serious signings for this team this offseason. We need to supplement what we have with upgraded talent at DT, OLB, and RG via free agency. We need an IMPACT ILB and Crowell isn't it.

                          We have the safetys in place, I feel CB as well. We need more production from LDE and DT as well as two LB spots.

                          Comment

                          • OpIv37
                            Acid Douching Asswipe
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 101230

                            #14
                            Re: Thoughts on this.....

                            Originally posted by DraftBoy
                            I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

                            LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
                            DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
                            DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
                            RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
                            OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
                            ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
                            OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
                            CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
                            CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
                            S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
                            S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

                            They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?
                            a) drafting is a combination of skill and luck. You have to select the right guys and hope they're still there when it's your time to pick, and even the best drafters get a bust every now and then. It's almost impossible to draft like that.

                            b) drafting takes time. By the time we get some positions filled, other positions will be vacated by age/retirement, FA, injury, etc.

                            We need a CB, 2 LB's, at least 1 DT and at least 1 DE (and that's ignoring the offense). That's at least 2 years' worth of drafts, plus the time it takes those players to develop in the NFL. By that time TKO will be old or gone, Schobel will be old or gone, McGee will have lost a step, etc and we'll have MORE holes to plug.

                            It can be done, if you have 3-4 years. We've already been rebuilding for 5 years. At what point does it stop?
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                            • DraftBoy
                              Administrator
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 107452

                              #15
                              Re: Thoughts on this.....

                              Originally posted by OpIv37
                              a) drafting is a combination of skill and luck. You have to select the right guys and hope they're still there when it's your time to pick, and even the best drafters get a bust every now and then. It's almost impossible to draft like that.

                              b) drafting takes time. By the time we get some positions filled, other positions will be vacated by age/retirement, FA, injury, etc.

                              We need a CB, 2 LB's, at least 1 DT and at least 1 DE (and that's ignoring the offense). That's at least 2 years' worth of drafts, plus the time it takes those players to develop in the NFL. By that time TKO will be old or gone, Schobel will be old or gone, McGee will have lost a step, etc and we'll have MORE holes to plug.

                              It can be done, if you have 3-4 years. We've already been rebuilding for 5 years. At what point does it stop?

                              Not anytime in the future, I still think we are 2 years out from playoffs, 4 from a good run.
                              COMING SOON...
                              Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
                              We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

                              Comment

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