Thoughts on this.....

[alohabillsfan]

OK we run the Tampa cover 2 (TC2) just like Indy and Chicago. Indy is 25 yards per game worse against the rush than we were and we had 15 more sacks than Indy but gave up 30 yards passing more per game. Overall we gave up 19.4 yds per game and the colts gave up 22.5. Now anyone that thinks the TC2 is designed to be a dominant run stopper does not know football. The TC2 is designed to take away the "big" play period. it's designed to punish the under routes with LB's and safties hitting backs and receivers immediatley after the catch.

Now to get this defense in the mold of a chicago defense is to play with the lead, look at Chicago's schedule and you will see why they are "stout" against the run they had big leads

Greenbay 23 rushes for 103 won 26-0
Detroit 14 rushes for 46 yards won 34-7
Minnesota 24 rushes for 97 yards won 19-16
Seattle 19 rushes for 77 yards won 37-6
Buffalo 18 rushes for 58 yards 3.2 avg won 40-7
Arizona 38 rushes for 66 yards 1.7 avg won 24-23
SF 18 rushes for 130 yards 7.2 avg won 41-10
Miami 35 rushes 161 yards 4.6 avg lost 13-31
NYG 22 rushes for 150 yards 6.8 avg lost 38-20
NYJ 30 rushes 108 yards for 3.6 avg won 10-0
NE 34 rushes for 85 yards 2.5 avg lost 13-17
Minn 35 rushes for 192 yards 5.5 avg won 23-13 you really need to look at this!
STL 22 rushes for 101 yards 4.6 avg won 42-27
TB 19 rushes for 57 yards 3.0 avg won 34-31
DET 18 rushes for 67 yards 3.7 avg won 26-21
GB 34 rushes for 97 yards 2.9 avg lost 7-26
Seattle 31 rushes for 127 yards 4.1 avg won 27-24

Look at the games where teams ran 30 plus times 4 out of 7 were losses and 2 should of been Arizona and Minn.


With that said I do agree we need a more physical MLB (Willis/Siler). Safeties are a premium for this defense and we are set there. We need to resign Hardgrove for depth (this is going to happen) and would like either a FA end or Kelsay resigned. We need another DT (1 Tech) to replace in effective Anderson and possibly another OLB.

Bottom Line we need== 1 DT, 1 MLB (draft Willis/Siler), Resign our current FA of Hardgrove, Kelsay, and K. Thomas. Additionally, would like an FA OLB and CB.

And we need an offense that can run the ball! So really who the hell do we draft???????????????????? OT? RB? DT? LB? Hell I don't know!

[eyedog]

All true. The Tampa-2 is great when playing with a lead, like the Colts usually are. Then the defense can t-off on the pass rush {see Dolphin game in miami}.
Run stuffing dt, mlb, o-guard.

[ICE74129]

My thoughts are this....

LDE needs better production. DB did a great job in listing that runs to the outside have killed us for greater gains than inside, BUT I will state the ones up the middle kept more drives going and IMHO occured more often.

That said DT, ILB and LDE MUST be drastically upgraded this offseason. Personally I bring in a guy like Briggs and then let TKO and Ellison fight it out at the other OLB position.

[alohabillsfan]

My thoughts are this....

LDE needs better production. DB did a great job in listing that runs to the outside have killed us for greater gains than inside, BUT I will state the ones up the middle kept more drives going and IMHO occured more often.

That said DT, ILB and LDE MUST be drastically upgraded this offseason. Personally I bring in a guy like Briggs and then let TKO and Ellison fight it out at the other OLB position.


Justin Smith form the Bengals ? LDE Draft Siler MLB round 2? But I really think it's the offense that will make this defense better and specifically running offense! We were a left handed offense (running behind Gandy and Peters) we need the same on the other side! FA OG and RB/OT round 1/3 in either order RB rd 1 ot rd 3 or vice versa!

[kernowboy]

I would look to an LE upgrade with Kerney, Grant, maybe Smith

I think Briggs benefits from teams having to account for Urlacher. Remove Briggs from this situation and he could be only half the player.

I think Pennington will come back a better player and will be pushed by Butler. Preston was functional at RG but I'd like him back at centre. We need a heavy roadgrader at RG, but in the worst case scenario we play Reyes and fast track the education of Merz as quickly as possible

[OpIv37]

Now anyone that thinks the TC2 is designed to be a dominant run stopper does not know football. The TC2 is designed to take away the "big" play period.

And that's why I hate this D and that's why we were 1-7 against playoff teams last year. Mediocre and bad teams win by relying on big plays. Good teams win by running and stopping the run.

[Saratoga Slim]

And that's why I hate this D and that's why we were 1-7 against playoff teams last year. Mediocre and bad teams win by relying on big plays. Good teams win by running and stopping the run.

Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.

[BillsFever21]

This defense is past it's prime. Outside of Chicago who has stars all around their defense this defense has been pretty putrid.

Tampa Bay was dominant in it because it was new. Now it's been around for years and teams know how to defend it.

Unless we can put stars all around our defense then it will never be a great defense.

[BillsFever21]

Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.

Is Indy's defense good though? Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and a great OL is the reason why they're in the SB.

Chicago has studs almost everywhere around that defense. That's why their defense is good.

Just because they run this defense doesn't mean it's a great defense because both teams run it. Before this year Tampa was about the only team to run this defense and be in the SB.

If we can build an offense like the Colts or put 1st draft day pick studs all around defense then we may come close to equaling their success. But then again we don't have a great coach like Lovie Smith either.

[OpIv37]

Chicago and Indy are in the super bowl with the same defensive scheme we run. I think you can definately win with this scheme. I see it more as a personnel issue.

Chicago has the PERFECT personnel for this D. We'll never have that- we don't have the ability to draw FA's to Buffalo and this team has a lot of holes to fill.

Indy has a great offense that forces teams to pass and play into the strength of the D. We don't have that either. And their run D cost them a first round bye and a home playoff game in the second round.

It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I really have to question the wisdom of bringing in coordinators and assistants to implement a certain system without considering the implications of using that system with the available personnel and other factors like offensive production.

[DraftBoy]

Chicago has the PERFECT personnel for this D. We'll never have that- we don't have the ability to draw FA's to Buffalo and this team has a lot of holes to fill.

Indy has a great offense that forces teams to pass and play into the strength of the D. We don't have that either. And their run D cost them a first round bye and a home playoff game in the second round.

It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I really have to question the wisdom of bringing in coordinators and assistants to implement a certain system without considering the implications of using that system with the available personnel and other factors like offensive production.


I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?

[casdhf]

They drafted Tank Johnson and Mike Brown has been there forever too

[ICE74129]

I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?

In a word...TIME. Marv himself said he wasn't rebuilding and didnt' have time for it. Ralph isn't going to be here (at least in a capasity to run this team) much longer.

I am willing to guarantee we make some serious signings for this team this offseason. We need to supplement what we have with upgraded talent at DT, OLB, and RG via free agency. We need an IMPACT ILB and Crowell isn't it.

We have the safetys in place, I feel CB as well. We need more production from LDE and DT as well as two LB spots.

[OpIv37]

I dont think we couldnt find the perfect personnell for our system similar to the Bears have. Lets look at their starters;

LDE-Ogunleye-Traded For
DT-Tommie Harris-Drafted
DT-Ian Scott-Drafted
RDE-Alex Brown-Drafted
OLB-Hunter Hillenmeyer-Signed from Packers
ILB-Brian Urlacher-Drafted
OLB-Lance Briggs-Drafted
CB-Charles Tillman-Drafted
CB-Nathan Vasher-Drafted
S-Todd JohnsonDrafted
S-Danieal Manning-Drafted

They drafted 9 of their 11 starters on D, traded for one, and signed a no name FA in Hillenmeyer. They brought in NO big name FAs. So why exactly cant Buffalo do this again?

a) drafting is a combination of skill and luck. You have to select the right guys and hope they're still there when it's your time to pick, and even the best drafters get a bust every now and then. It's almost impossible to draft like that.

b) drafting takes time. By the time we get some positions filled, other positions will be vacated by age/retirement, FA, injury, etc.

We need a CB, 2 LB's, at least 1 DT and at least 1 DE (and that's ignoring the offense). That's at least 2 years' worth of drafts, plus the time it takes those players to develop in the NFL. By that time TKO will be old or gone, Schobel will be old or gone, McGee will have lost a step, etc and we'll have MORE holes to plug.

It can be done, if you have 3-4 years. We've already been rebuilding for 5 years. At what point does it stop?

[DraftBoy]

a) drafting is a combination of skill and luck. You have to select the right guys and hope they're still there when it's your time to pick, and even the best drafters get a bust every now and then. It's almost impossible to draft like that.

b) drafting takes time. By the time we get some positions filled, other positions will be vacated by age/retirement, FA, injury, etc.

We need a CB, 2 LB's, at least 1 DT and at least 1 DE (and that's ignoring the offense). That's at least 2 years' worth of drafts, plus the time it takes those players to develop in the NFL. By that time TKO will be old or gone, Schobel will be old or gone, McGee will have lost a step, etc and we'll have MORE holes to plug.

It can be done, if you have 3-4 years. We've already been rebuilding for 5 years. At what point does it stop?


Not anytime in the future, I still think we are 2 years out from playoffs, 4 from a good run.

[ParanoidAndroid]

It doesn't help that we have been starting from scratch every 2 years. Hopefully, Levy and Jauron make this stick and we can build towards the playoffs instead of towards another rebuilding period.

[X-Era]

OK we run the Tampa cover 2 (TC2) just like Indy and Chicago. Indy is 25 yards per game worse against the rush than we were and we had 15 more sacks than Indy but gave up 30 yards passing more per game. Overall we gave up 19.4 yds per game and the colts gave up 22.5. Now anyone that thinks the TC2 is designed to be a dominant run stopper does not know football. The TC2 is designed to take away the "big" play period. it's designed to punish the under routes with LB's and safties hitting backs and receivers immediatley after the catch.

Now to get this defense in the mold of a chicago defense is to play with the lead, look at Chicago's schedule and you will see why they are "stout" against the run they had big leads

Greenbay 23 rushes for 103 won 26-0
Detroit 14 rushes for 46 yards won 34-7
Minnesota 24 rushes for 97 yards won 19-16
Seattle 19 rushes for 77 yards won 37-6
Buffalo 18 rushes for 58 yards 3.2 avg won 40-7
Arizona 38 rushes for 66 yards 1.7 avg won 24-23
SF 18 rushes for 130 yards 7.2 avg won 41-10
Miami 35 rushes 161 yards 4.6 avg lost 13-31
NYG 22 rushes for 150 yards 6.8 avg lost 38-20
NYJ 30 rushes 108 yards for 3.6 avg won 10-0
NE 34 rushes for 85 yards 2.5 avg lost 13-17
Minn 35 rushes for 192 yards 5.5 avg won 23-13 you really need to look at this!
STL 22 rushes for 101 yards 4.6 avg won 42-27
TB 19 rushes for 57 yards 3.0 avg won 34-31
DET 18 rushes for 67 yards 3.7 avg won 26-21
GB 34 rushes for 97 yards 2.9 avg lost 7-26
Seattle 31 rushes for 127 yards 4.1 avg won 27-24

Look at the games where teams ran 30 plus times 4 out of 7 were losses and 2 should of been Arizona and Minn.


With that said I do agree we need a more physical MLB (Willis/Siler). Safeties are a premium for this defense and we are set there. We need to resign Hardgrove for depth (this is going to happen) and would like either a FA end or Kelsay resigned. We need another DT (1 Tech) to replace in effective Anderson and possibly another OLB.

Bottom Line we need== 1 DT, 1 MLB (draft Willis/Siler), Resign our current FA of Hardgrove, Kelsay, and K. Thomas. Additionally, would like an FA OLB and CB.

And we need an offense that can run the ball! So really who the hell do we draft???????????????????? OT? RB? DT? LB? Hell I don't know!

I guess Im missing what your stats show. NYG, SF, the other Minn game (97), and GB all had 100 yard days as well but with less carrys. That seems to say that whether teams run on the Bers or not, it really doesnt matter. They even lost a few games NE, GB where they didnt give up 100 yards. Its all about wins and losses. The Bears have a great D and they score more points than their opponents do most of the time.

Its just that simple. We need to score more points than our opponents do most of the time.

That means we must score more points most of the time- improve the OL add playmakers

and prevent the other team from scoring as much or more than we do most of the time- Improve DL, add a run stuffing LB.

We need players who will make our D dominant, and we need players who will make us score more points.

[ICE74129]

Not anytime in the future, I still think we are 2 years out from playoffs, 4 from a good run.

then whats the point? Teams are making one year turn arounds and we are sitting here on our butts. Who says Evans and JP will be here then?

bottom line, to compete NOW you need to spend money in Free agency. We have a handful of holes that need to be filled that way and done NOW with all the cap room we have available.

2-4 years? Ralph wont be the owner and there is no guarantee the team will be here then. Ralph has already about lost all of his faculties, just think how bad he will be in 2 more years IF he is still alive at all.

[alohabillsfan]

a) drafting is a combination of skill and luck. You have to select the right guys and hope they're still there when it's your time to pick, and even the best drafters get a bust every now and then. It's almost impossible to draft like that.

b) drafting takes time. By the time we get some positions filled, other positions will be vacated by age/retirement, FA, injury, etc.

We need a CB, 2 LB's, at least 1 DT and at least 1 DE (and that's ignoring the offense). That's at least 2 years' worth of drafts, plus the time it takes those players to develop in the NFL. By that time TKO will be old or gone, Schobel will be old or gone, McGee will have lost a step, etc and we'll have MORE holes to plug.

It can be done, if you have 3-4 years. We've already been rebuilding for 5 years. At what point does it stop? Since when have we been rebuilding for 4-5 years? Bledsoe=Bandaid? Milloy=Overpaid? We started rebuilding when Marv took over not a minute sooner take the blinders off!


All right Bull crap! Most (do the research) FA's are not former 1st or 2nd round picks, look at the FA market ( Briggs 3rd round, A. Thomas 6th round, Stienbach 2nd rd, June 6th rd, Samual 4th rd) I can go on but... So most teams resign their premier FA's former 1/2 rounders and with that said good teams build through the draft! Which is why most of us ( Ice not included) are message board GM"s and not at 1 Bills Drive. Trade down aquire more picks and build for the future, we do that and we have a chance for a run!

[YardRat]

Not anytime in the future, I still think we are 2 years out from playoffs, 4 from a good run.

I hope you're wrong. I'm thinking playoffs next year.

[HHURRICANE]

Okay everyone. Tennessee ran the ball 12 out of 13 times on the game winning drive that ended any playoff aspirations. They started on their own 10.

I am sick and tired of wanting to just "tweak" the D. We are not 1 or 2 players away here from a Superbowl.

Geez stop acting like we just missed the playoffs. 7-9 and one of the worst teams against the run in the league.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Not anytime in the future, I still think we are 2 years out from playoffs, 4 from a good run.

I pretty much agree. When T.Donahoe was fired and Marv Levy took over as GM, I said that it would take 3 years to rebuild the team and turn it into a team that could make a sustained playoff run--and all signs indicate that this is the route the team is taking.

Also, I've made this point before and I will make it again: Just because a player does not step in and become a starter or a star as a rookie, that does not mean that that player will NEVER be any good. All NFL teams, not just the Bills, rely on the players that they draft improving to the point where they can become starters or significant role players. Who was Tom Brady as a rookie? Nobody. But, B.Belichick (like him or hate him) stated that Brady improved more between his first and second year in the NFL than any other player that he has ever had coached. Early this past season I posted the rookie stats for a list of DTs, comparing McCargo, K.Williams, Ngata and Bunkley to some of the top DTs, Pro Bowlers, in the last 10 years that showed that more than half of them did almost nothing as rookies--yet they all went on to become not just starters, but stars.

The problem that the Bills have had since Tom Donahoe took over the team is that almost none of his mid-to-late draft picks ever developed as players and very few of his top draft picks showed much improvement in their production after their rookie seasons--until this past year when there was a new GM and coaching staff running the team. Given that history, I understand the doubters and those who are so frustrated that they can't believe that the Bills will ever be able to develop enough players to build the foundation for a successful team. But, this is a new regime and they have already gotten more contributions from the rookies that they drafted last year than the previous regime got from any one of its draft classes. We have also seen players like Lee Evans, JP Losman and Aaron Schobel significantly improve their games, while players like Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Angelo Crowell and Jason Peters played better than many thought they were capable of playing. And, that's not to even mention the improvement that the rookies and the team as a whole made over the course of this coaching staff's first season.

I know that the Bills are expecting all of their players, but especially their younger players, to be better next year than they were this season--and I expect them to be better, too, because, unlike the previous coaching staffs under the previous regime, this coaching staff has shown that it has been able to get at least some of the players that they have to play better than they did in the past. Because the current regime at OBD had to clear a lot of players from the 2005 team out of the lockerroom before they could start building for the future, they started at a disadvantage in the sense that the team did not have a lot of talent or depth. Marv Levy and the Bills' braintrust is going to have to continue to draft well and the coaching staff is going to have to continue to not just coach, but develop the players that they draft if the Bills are going to be good enough to become a serious playoff contender in a very tough, competitive AFC. Like it or not, that's going to take more than just another year--oh, they might get a few bounces and sneak into the playoffs next year, but, if they do, they still will not have enough overall talent to be serious Super Bowl contenders yet (the Jets made the playoffs, but does anyone consider them serious SB players? I think not...).

To become a real playoff contender, the Bills are going to have to develop players that, right now, a lot of people don't think are ever going to amount to much. Just look at the rosters of those great Bills teams of the early 1990s and the two teams who will be playing in the Super Bowl this weekend: Thurman Thomas, 2nd round choice when the Bills already had a decent starting RB, Andre Reed, 4th round pick out of where?, Don Beebe, Mark Kelso, need I go on? Those Bills teams were build on solid mid-to-late round picks who developed as players just as much as they were on the guys who were well-known, top draft picks like Kelly, Smith, Bennett, etc. Alfonso Boone, Tank Johnson, Israel Idonjie, Rahaad Davis, Mike Brown, Robert Mathis, Raheem Brock, Justin David, Antoine Bethea (what draft "expert" had him ranked as a top 10 safety in last year's draft?), Gary Brackett, Cato June...how many of them were household names after their rookie seasons, let alone when they were drafted? Maybe in their own households....

Speaking of Cato June: ICE and some others here don't think that Keith Ellison can ever be more than a back-up because Ellison is "too small". Ellison is listed as being 6'0", 228. Cato June, who some have said that they think the Bills should try to sign as a free agent, is listed as being 6'0", 227. June had 8 total tackles, 6 unassisted, in 11 games as a rookie--in short, he barely saw the field. Ellison, in contrast, had 33 solos, 32 assists, a sack, a pass defensed and an interception in 14 games as a rookie. Lance Briggs, who didn't have Takeo Spikes or Angelo Crowell starting in front of him, had 65 solos, 13 assists, 3 passes defensed and an interception that he returned for a TD as a rookie WLB.

Some have said that the Bills will never be able to develop their young players like other teams have. Why not? It has been done in Buffalo before. And, not just by Polian and Levy during the Super Bowl run. Or, has everyone forgotten the defense that the Bills had in the late 1990s. How many of those players were highly-touted coming out of college and stepped in to be big-time players right off the bat? Some, yes, but certainly not all: was Pat Williams a stud right away or did he take a year or two to develop? Just because very few of Tom Donahoe's players developed that does NOT mean that the Bills will never, ever again, be able to find and develop unknown or relatively unknown raw talents into good players. It's what good teams do, what the Bills have done in the past, and what the Bills will have to do in order to become a good team once again.

Yes, the Bills have to add more talent (that's why I am saying that it will take more than just this offseason for them to really be a serious playoff team!): the NFL is a league where play-makers make the big plays and the Bills simply do not have enough play-makers at present to compete with teams like the Colts, Bears, Chargers, etc. that are loaded with play-makers. They can get a few as free agents, but, like those three teams I just mentioned, they are going to have to get most of them from the draft and a fair number of them are going to have to be relatively unknown mid-to-late round draft picks who develop into starters and even stars. But, the process of doing that just started last year when Marv Levy took over and hired Dick Jauron and his coaching staff--they aren't even at the end of the beginning of that process, let alone the end of it.

If Jauron and his staff do their jobs correctly, the Bills will be a better team next season simply because many, if not most, of the young players, especially the rookies, will develop and improve over what they did and were able to do last season. The run defense won't be as bad because Crowell, Spikes, Ellison, Whitner, etc. will all have a better idea of what they are supposed to do and where they are supposed to be; K.Williams will be bigger and stronger; etc. That does not mean that they do not need to add talent in order to be good enough not to be a liability--they must add more talent, more play-makers, to the defense and develop that talent. But, there is no reason to automatically assume that the Bills can never and will never be able to develop a defense that is as good as the Bears' defense--why can't they?

Three years ago the Bears were not significantly better than the Bills were or even where they are not, but they drafted well and developed the talent that they drafted: Tommie Harris had 28 solos, 15 assists and 3.5 sacks, with 2 passes defensed as a rookie in 2004; Tank Johnson had 9 tackles, 3 assists and 0.5 sacks as a rookie that same year in 16 games (John McCargo nearly matched that in 5 games); Ian Scott had 34 solos, 10 assists with 2 sacks and 3 passes defensed in 2004 after logging just 2 tackles as a rookie the season before; Antonio Garay didn't even play for the Browns that year after logging 2 solos and 2 assists his rookie season; and Alfonso Boone had 8 tackles, 3 assists, 2.5 sacks and a pass defensed in his 5th year in the NFL in 2004. Yes, the Bears had Urlacher and Brown, but Tillman was in his second year and Vasher was a rookie. Now look at where they are. And, note how many of the players who are key cogs in their defense now were rookies or in their second year that season and the kinds of numbers that they logged (Alex Brown, in his third year that season, had 39 solos, 11 assists, 6 sacks and 8 passes defensed). A low-level free agent (Hillenmeyer), a trade for a top pass-rushing DE (Ogunleye), a couple more drafts and three years of good coaching and development and they are in the Super Bowl.

Now, I'm not saying that the current players on the Bills team will develop into the players that the Bears' players have become--we don't know whether they will or they won't. Only time, over the next 2-3 years, will tell if the current regime at OBD will be able to draft and develop players for the Bills the way the Bears were able to. But, there is no way to know for sure what the outcome will be at this moment--anyone who says for sure that he KNOWS what it will be is either a fool or a liar!--because the Bills are just at the beginning of the process of building their team. Tom Donahoe's reign at OBD was a disaster that left the cupboard nearly, but not totally, empty and, like it or not, it is going to take the new regime (ANY new GM) some time to go out and get the talent and develop the players needed to seriously compete for a Super Bowl. It doesn't happen overnight. And, you can't just go out and buy such a team in free agency, even if you hire a HOF Head Coach and some of the top name coordinators and assistants in the league--just ask Danny Snyder and the fans of the Washington Redskins.

No amount of moaning by Bills fans can eliminate the Donahoe years or undo the damage that they did to the franchise. Nor should the current regime be held responsible for the many errors of those years or the fact that the team was not competitive during those years. They can only be held responsible for the work that they have done since Marv took over last season and much of their work can only begin to be fairly evaluated after we see who they bring in this offseason and how those players and the players that they have already drafted and brought in develop over the course of the next season. But, at this stage, don't tell me that they can't or will NEVER be able to develop players or build a serious playoff contender: Marv has already been a major player in doing that twice (with the Bills and Montreal, not counting Washington with G.Allen) and it is way to early to even know how this team will develop. And, turning this team around from where they were at the end of the 2005 season will not happen overnight--and no amount of wishing, hoping, cursing or groaning is going to change that either: hopefully, they will add more pieces to the puzzle this offseason, but, no matter how good a fit those pieces are, it's still going to take time to get them all to fit together in their proper places....

[jamze132]

Well the above post just about sums it up. And I agree with just about everything that was said.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Building through the draft guarantees a greater level of continuity than building through FA.