WR is starting to look like a need!!

[HHURRICANE]

This year we sucked against the run. PERIOD. Tampa 2 or not we still can't continue to allow the rushing performances that we saw this year. I fully expect major changes to address this.

However the offense has their issues as well. As with Kelsay and Denney on D who, together, equal 1 good player I see the same on offense with our receiving corp. Price is not #2 material. He lacks the athletic ability to consistantly get open and unlike Evans, who will fight for a ball, Price is just going to run his route. We need a #2 who can win a ball. Especially in OP. The dilemma here is how and who? I think the Bills are hurting themselves major league if it doesn't get addressed becasue teams are not going to let Evans do what he did this year. That means a #2 that is going to make a difference when Evans is triple teamed.

Any thoughts or ideas either FA or draft. Marv will never, ever, take a WR receiver in the first round. If you doubt me think about the fact that his best 2 receivers, while he was coaching, came from schools we barely ever heard of. So those who think we are getting Jarrett or Ginn can keep dreaming.

Seriously any thoughts?

[DraftBoy]

We took Eric Moulds in the 1st round in 96, we took Bucky Brooks round 2 in 94, and Peerless Price in the 2nd in 99. Those were the only 'early' WR picks in the 90's. However it does defeat your comment that we will NOT take a WR early. Just cause we had long term success with players like Reed does not mean that Levy is just going to pass on a good WR because he thinks he can find another Andre.

[Philagape]

There aren't any instant-impact WRs in FA. The closest IMO is Drew Bennett. So if we want a guy who will make a difference immediately, it will have to be a pick in the first two rounds (maybe Bowe?). Otherwise we'll have to develop a lower-round pick or hope what we have gets better.

[Tatonka]

i can see us going about 10 different ways in the draft. RB, wr, ROT, DT, DE, LB, CB, trade up, trade down, OG, C..

the only picks that would really piss me off on the first day are QB, Safety, or LT.

[SABURZFAN]

we don't need to draft a WR unless c.johnson falls to us at #12 and i don't see that happening.

[HHURRICANE]

we don't need to draft a WR unless c.johnson falls to us at #12 and i don't see that happening.

I tend to agree here. However are you saying that we don't need to improve the WR corps?

[SABURZFAN]

I tend to agree here. However are you saying that we don't need to improve the WR corps?


i didn't say that.i said that we don't need to draft a WR.

[Throne Logic]

i didn't say that.i said that we don't need to draft a WR.

So, what would your plan be to address the WR issue? If we don't draft a WR and FA is severly limited this off-season, what's your move?

[DraftBoy]

we don't need to draft a WR unless c.johnson falls to us at #12 and i don't see that happening.


I disagree I think Jarrett is a more NFL ready prospect, but he will not be as good as CJ in the end.

[SABURZFAN]

I disagree I think Jarrett is a more NFL ready prospect, but he will not be as good as CJ in the end.


this team has other needs that need addressing.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't think WR is a need position. At this point it looks more like a luxury pick we cannot afford with the other positions like LB, CB, DT, OL that are screaming for help.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think WR is a need position. At this point it looks more like a luxury pick we cannot afford with the other positions like LB, CB, DT, OL that are screaming for help.


And who at those posistions is woth the #12 pick value wise? Willis? Maybe, Hall? No, Revis? No, Brown? No, Okoye? No.

[DraftBoy]

this team has other needs that need addressing.


This has a need at every posistion but QB, S, and P. And I know you'll disagree about QB, lets not go there this time. We need to take BPA, and if Jarrett falls to 12, he'll be the BPA.

[HHURRICANE]

Back on topic. Who if we go FA and where and when if through the draft?

[SABURZFAN]

This has a need at every posistion but QB, S, and P. And I know you'll disagree about QB, lets not go there this time.


:laughter:


that wasn't one of the positions that i had in mind when i said we need to address other positions.

it's funny how you want to bring it up but you don't want to go there.like your opinions about college players,they aren't always right. :rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

:laughter:


that wasn't one of the positions that i had in mind when i said we need to address other positions.

it's funny how you want to bring it up but you don't want to go there.like your opinions about college players,they aren't always right. :rolleyes:


Ahh the joys of intelligent debate :rolleyes:

[Typ0]

We need Randy Moss. I don't care if he's a dork JP has an arm and Moss is a machine when he's in a good situation.

[SABURZFAN]

Ahh the joys of intelligent debate :rolleyes:


yeah....like pointing the finger,backtracking the statement,and then calling it a debate.


intelligent.......no wonder they made you a Mod. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

We need Randy Moss. I don't care if he's a dork JP has an arm and Moss is a machine when he's in a good situation.


moss and evans????


that's something to think about.

[DraftBoy]

Back on topic. Who if we go FA and where and when if through the draft?


Free Agent Breakdown by Posistion of who I like:
QB-
None


RB-
Justin Griffith-Atlanta
Musa Smith-Baltimore

WR-
Drew Bennett-Tennessee
Justin Gage-Chicago
Travis Taylor-Minnesota
Aaron Morehead-Indianapolis

TE-
Zach Hilton-NY Jets
Visanthe Shiancoe-NY Giants

OC-
Dan Koppen-New England
Al Johnson-Dallas
Hank Fraley-Cleveland

OG-
Derrick Dockery-Washington
Cosey Coleman-Cleveland
Kris Dielman-San Diego
Andre Gurode-Dallas

OT-
Leonard Davis-Arizona
Jon Stinchcomb-New Orleans

DE-
Charles Grant-New Orleans
Justin Smith-Cincinnati
Robaire Smith-Tennessee

DT-
Rien Smith-Tennessee
Kindal Moorehead-Carolina

LB-
Lance Briggs-Chicago
Napolean Harris-Minnesota
Boss Bailey-Detroit

CB-
Ahmad Carroll-Jacksonville
Nick Harper-Indianapolis
Phillip Buchannon-Tampa Bay

S-
None

K-
Jay Feely-NY Giants

These are the FA's Id target at the following posistions, depending of course on their demands and such.

[DraftBoy]

yeah....like pointing the finger,backtracking the statement,and then calling it a debate.


intelligent.......no wonder they made you a Mod. :rolleyes:

:rofl:

Thats great, I look forward to your next comment.

[SABURZFAN]

:rofl:

Thats great, I look forward to your next comment.



you're not alone.

[DraftBoy]

you're not alone.


Im well aware :bandwagon

[alohabillsfan]

Marv please fix the rushing attack! It will help the defense and the passing offense! It's like buy 1 get 2 free! This screams for upgrade in at least 2 positions RG/RT! We need to run the ball! Look at the teams we are with


TEAM GMS atts g/avg total avg game td
Buffalo 16 420 26.2 1552 3.7 97.0 9 Drafting 12
Tampa Bay 16 404 25.2 1523 3.8 95.2 6 Drafting 3/4
Oakland 16 394 24.6 1519 3.9 94.9 5 Drafting 1
Arizona 16 419 26.2 1338 3.2 83.6 12 Drafting 5
Cleveland 16 372 23.2 1335 3.6 83.4 7 Drafting 3/4
Detroit 16 304 19.0 1129 3.7 70.6 9 Drafting 2

This should tell you something!

[jpdex12]

Free Agent Breakdown by Posistion of who I like:
QB-
None


RB-
Justin Griffith-Atlanta
Musa Smith-Baltimore

WR-
Drew Bennett-Tennessee
Justin Gage-Chicago
Travis Taylor-Minnesota
Aaron Morehead-Indianapolis

TE-
Zach Hilton-NY Jets
Visanthe Shiancoe-NY Giants

OC-
Dan Koppen-New England
Al Johnson-Dallas
Hank Fraley-Cleveland

OG-
Derrick Dockery-Washington
Cosey Coleman-Cleveland
Kris Dielman-San Diego
Andre Gurode-Dallas

OT-
Leonard Davis-Arizona
Jon Stinchcomb-New Orleans

DE-
Charles Grant-New Orleans
Justin Smith-Cincinnati
Robaire Smith-Tennessee

DT-
Rien Smith-Tennessee
Kindal Moorehead-Carolina

LB-
Lance Briggs-Chicago
Napolean Harris-Minnesota
Boss Bailey-Detroit

CB-
Ahmad Carroll-Jacksonville
Nick Harper-Indianapolis
Phillip Buchannon-Tampa Bay

S-
None

K-
Jay Feely-NY Giants

These are the FA's Id target at the following posistions, depending of course on their demands and such.

Wow, you forgot Turner from the Chargers for RB
Kevin Curtis WR from Rams
Cato June LB from Colts.....

[HHURRICANE]

Drew Bennett is the only FA worth talking about. Is he worth bringing in?

[DraftBoy]

Wow, you forgot Turner from the Chargers for RB
Kevin Curtis WR from Rams
Cato June LB from Colts.....


No I didnt, Turner an RFA that I wont waste picks on. I think Curtis is no better than any of are other WR's, and June is too highly priced.

[clumping platelets]

June won't get more than Briggs

I like Justin Griffith

As for the position posed by the thread, outside of run D, WR is our greatest need. Run D could be DL or LB........

Last time I checked, FA is not the only route to improving your team, why not make a trade to acquire the help we need?

[LifetimeBillsFan]

There aren't any instant-impact WRs in FA. The closest IMO is Drew Bennett. So if we want a guy who will make a difference immediately, it will have to be a pick in the first two rounds (maybe Bowe?). Otherwise we'll have to develop a lower-round pick or hope what we have gets better.

Donte Stallworth has not been mentioned here, although I heard that he has/will opt out of his deal with Philly. I seriously doubt that the Bills would pay the kind of money needed to attract a WR like Stallworth, but, with the season that he had for the Eagles, he would probably be the top WR on the market is he does opt to become a free agent. His presence on the market might depress the interest in someone like Bennett, though, and make him more affordable.

Personally, I do not think that the Bills will choose to spend more money on a WR this offseason. Nor do I think that it is likely that they will use a high draft pick on one (although I do think it is still a slight possibility)--because this is a deep draft at WR, I do, however, see them using a mid-to-late round pick on someone that they feel that they can develop.

Overall, though, I believe the Bills coaches when they say that they are happy with the WR corps that they have--which is something that they have maintained all along. I know a lot of Bills fans are unhappy with the Bills WRs (other than Evans) based on what they saw of them this season, but the coaches may be seeing something entirely different: they know what routes they called or didn't call and what the strengths of their WRs are--where they asked people to do things that they weren't that good at doing and where they didn't call on them to do things that they could do well--and may feel that, as they open up the playbook more, the WRs that they have can get the job done and that continuity with his receivers is more important to them being able to open up the playbook more for JP Losman than getting him a new # 2 WR at this point. I don't know that this is the case, but it might be: certainly the numbers put up by Reed and Price improved significantly towards the end of the season as Fairchild did open up the offense more. But, for that reason, I could see the team standing pat or just bringing in a young WR, someone like a Dallas Baker, Johnny Lee Higgins, Paul Williams, Jacoby Jones, etc., that they could get in the mid-to-late rounds, that would not start right away, but could be developed into a serious weapon for the team in the near future.

[kernowboy]

Donte Stallworth has not been mentioned here, although I heard that he has/will opt out of his deal with Philly. I seriously doubt that the Bills would pay the kind of money needed to attract a WR like Stallworth, but, with the season that he had for the Eagles, he would probably be the top WR on the market is he does opt to become a free agent. His presence on the market might depress the interest in someone like Bennett, though, and make him more affordable.

Personally, I do not think that the Bills will choose to spend more money on a WR this offseason. Nor do I think that it is likely that they will use a high draft pick on one (although I do think it is still a slight possibility)--because this is a deep draft at WR, I do, however, see them using a mid-to-late round pick on someone that they feel that they can develop.

Overall, though, I believe the Bills coaches when they say that they are happy with the WR corps that they have--which is something that they have maintained all along. I know a lot of Bills fans are unhappy with the Bills WRs (other than Evans) based on what they saw of them this season, but the coaches may be seeing something entirely different: they know what routes they called or didn't call and what the strengths of their WRs are--where they asked people to do things that they weren't that good at doing and where they didn't call on them to do things that they could do well--and may feel that, as they open up the playbook more, the WRs that they have can get the job done and that continuity with his receivers is more important to them being able to open up the playbook more for JP Losman than getting him a new # 2 WR at this point. I don't know that this is the case, but it might be: certainly the numbers put up by Reed and Price improved significantly towards the end of the season as Fairchild did open up the offense more. But, for that reason, I could see the team standing pat or just bringing in a young WR, someone like a Dallas Baker, Johnny Lee Higgins, Paul Williams, Jacoby Jones, etc., that they could get in the mid-to-late rounds, that would not start right away, but could be developed into a serious weapon for the team in the near future.

Agreed ... but what about these .. ok .. they may not be the best but they are young, have upside and could still come in and upgrade the depth on the roster

Ashley Lelie
TJ Duckett
Pat Ramsay
Mike Rumph

in the draft, Jarrett simply does not have sufficient speed to merit a No12 pick. We can get less polished WRs with more speed later on Day1 and in 2008 there are some big yet significantly faster WRs coming out. However, Fairchild has never felt the need to go with big WRs

What are people thoughts on Napolean Harris in the LBs?

[Night Train]

Several mock drafts have the Bills taking this guy, one of the best TE's to come out in years.

Zach Miller -TE- Arizona St. 6-5 1/2 256 4.6

Hands: Is outstanding. Consistently reaches out and catches the ball with his hands. Can twist and contort his body to adjust to off-target throws and make great catches. Grade: 8.5

Patterns: Runs sharp and precise routes. Is quick off the snap. Shows the agility and quickness to make sharp cuts and the burst out of cuts to easily gain separation. Is adept at juking defenders to get open. Is smart, and finds holes in zone coverages. Grade: 8.5
Run after catch: Has the speed to make big plays. Turns upfield quickly, and runs aggressively. Will lower shoulders to deliver a blow to would-be tacklers. Has the size, strength, balance and agility to consistently gain yardage after contact. Grade: 8.0
Release: Consistently bursts off the snap and gets into his route. Uses hands, quickness, strength and agility to defeat jams by safeties and linebackers. Grade: 8.5
Blocking: Is not a dominant blocker, but does a decent job. Is a solid in-line run blocker, handling linebackers on the second level and blocking defenders from an H-back alignment. Grade: 7.0
Bottom line: Miller was very productive as a freshman and improved each year thereafter. He is smart and versatile enough to play from a variety of alignments -- in-line as a traditional tight end, in motion as an H-back and at fullback. He shouldn't be downgraded for his lack of brute strength. Miller will be a star and make an immediate impact as a receiver. He will catch a ton of balls, gain yards after the catch and be a better blocker than most elite TE's.


The point is too give Losman an additional receiving option outside of Evans, correct ? Did you folks see what a top TE like Dallas Clark did to the Pats in the last game ? I'm sure Marv did.
Most all boards have him ranked between 10-20 overall, so he's not a reach. I'm betting he's high on our board and one of the ones they're considering.

[kernowboy]

Which site was the analysis from?

I'd also not be unhappy if Greg Olsen was getting serious consideration for R2