Peyton Manning reminds me of

[chernobylwraiths]

Dan Marino. I'm glad he won, but I hope he doesn't win again. He looks like such a whiner out there always *****ing at people.

[MikeInRoch]

Manning >> Marino.

[Ebenezer]

whining or leading? Marino had a great arm. He was a terrible leader. Marino is prime reason #1 why Miami never won anything. Manning is head and shoulders above Marino even without the ring.

[Mitchy moo]

HOF here comes manning, most passing yards in a season (besides JP next year) and a SB MVP / Winner.

[Goobylal]

Marino never won because he didn't have a running game OR a defense. I didn't like him, but I respected his talent.

It's not all about the QB. It's about the team.

[Dr. Lecter]

I agree with Eb. Manning is not whining. Directing a leading people is more like it.

[Dr. Lecter]

Marino never won because he didn't have a running game OR a defense.

It's hard to have a running game when you refuse to use it.

[Ebenezer]

It's hard to have a running game when you refuse to use it.
Amen.

[Goobylal]

Marino had crap for RB's. And even still, defense wins championships and he never had a good one.

[Ebenezer]

Marino had crap for RB's. And even still, defense wins championships and he never had a good one.
The Indi defense was not exactly the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens. Marino for all his numbers should have been able to throw them into at least one more bowl. He didn't. He gave up on plays and had Shula convinced that all golden roads went through his arm. :down:

[MikeInRoch]

Marino had crap for RB's. And even still, defense wins championships and he never had a good one.

Marino TWICE had the number 1 defense in the league. He can't use that as an excuse.

[MikeInRoch]

It's always a joy to bring this out...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=57


DollFans have created an entire Mythology of Marino to explain this failure. They say he had no defense, no running game, no supporting cast. It sounds good on paper, but it’s just not true. Fortunately, the Cold, Hard Football Facts worship in a different temple, one where raw numbers and reality reign as Zeus and Apollo. They easily debunked the four biggest myths perpetuated by the cult of Dan Marino.

Myth: Dan Marino had no defense.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league’s No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That’s a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino’s playing days.

Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

In Marino’s record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league’s No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

There’s no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that’s the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

Myth: Marino had no running game.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.

In Marino’s rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground. In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.

It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino’s career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino’s arm.

But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl last year while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino’s 17 seasons. In other words, Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.

Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That’s a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino’s career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England’s two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

Marino also had the rare luxury of joining a team that had played in the Super Bowl the year before he arrived. He also played most of his career for the winningest coach in NFL history, Don Shula.

Shula has quite a resume. Working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, he led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.

If any quarterback in NFL history walked into an ideal situation in which to win a Super Bowl, it was Dan Marino.

Myth: Marino was a big-game quarterback.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Want to know the real reason why Marino never won a Super Bowl? Sadly, the answer sits with Dan Marino himself.

Simply put, Marino did not elevate his game in the playoffs. In fact, his played dropped off quite noticeably. Marino has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

In his one Super Bowl appearance (a 38-16 loss to the 49ers in Super Bowl XIX), Marino completed 29 of 50 passes for 318 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. It adds up to a weak 66.9 passer rating. One wonders what might have happened had his two Super Bowl drives that ended in interceptions ended in touchdowns instead.

Remember that 1998 Miami team that had the best defense in football? It made the playoffs, but Marino failed to hold up his end of the bargain. The season ended in the second round of the playoffs, with Marino coughing up two interceptions against Denver and posting a passer rating of just 65.5. Yet another opportunity for Marino to win a Super Bowl tossed into the hands of an opposing defender.

In fact, Marino threw at least one interception in 13 of his 18 career playoff games. He threw two or more interceptions 10 times. The Dolphins went just 1-9 in those 10 Marino multi-interception playoff games.

So, DollFans, if you're looking for a reason why Miami never won a Super Bowl in the 1980s or 90s, look no further than the faded Dan Marino poster still taped to the ceiling over your bed.

[Dr. Lecter]

Mike, you are da' man.

[MikeInRoch]

Thanks! :D

[Goobylal]

So he had the #1 scoring defense as a rookie. That's a wash. No rookie QB has EVER won a SB.

As for 1998, the Dols lost Tim Bowens in the playoffs and that killed their run defense. And their RB was Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

[Dr. Lecter]

But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl last year while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino’s 17 seasons. In other words, Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.

[G. Host]

whining or leading? Marino had a great arm. He was a terrible leader. Marino is prime reason #1 why Miami never won anything. Manning is head and shoulders above Marino even without the ring.

:clap: Danny killed their running game. Not until they decided at end of Danny's game to have a running game whether Danny agreed or not. I think it is why Thurman had so much success - they had no one to emulate Thurman in practice.

[chernobylwraiths]

Manning is a whiner. Just look at his face after a receiver drops a ball. He screws up his face and starts yelling at the guy. He isn't the guy yelling at the waitress who drops the tray "Good carry!". Sure he is a great QB and leader, but he looks like a whiner, just like Marino used to look after any unsuccessful play. That's all I'm saying.

In addition, I saw some pre superbowl coverage and although they said they love the guy, a few guys like Jeff Saturday and Marcus Pollard had some things that weren't very flattering about Peyton. They said that he can blame somebody for doing something wrong but don't you DARE try to put any blame on Peyton. They even interviewed a guy that Peyton grew up with and he said that Peyton could never admit he was wrong about anything. Just saying.

[Goobylal]

In the 2003 playoffs, Antowain Smith averaged well over 4.0 YPC. It doesn't matter what you do during the regular season (as Marty Schottenheimer proved), it's what you do IN the post-season.

[Goobylal]

chernobyl: Few successful QB's accept blame. It's the nature of the beast.

[Novacane]

:rolleyes:

[LtFinFan66]

Dan Marino. I'm glad he won, but I hope he doesn't win again. He looks like such a whiner out there always *****ing at people.He is doing his job as the leader of the team

[SABuffalo786]

I really don't have a problem with Manning.

[Kerr]

Peyton has yet to beat up on a desk on national tv.

[chernobylwraiths]

Goob and everyone else, his act when someone makes a mistake reminds me of Marino and continuously seeing it is making me sick. My opinion. Never said he wasn't a good leader or a great QB. Jeez

[Goobylal]

We're just discussing it cw. No need to take it personally.

[Ebenezer]

So he had the #1 scoring defense as a rookie. That's a wash. No rookie QB has EVER won a SB.

As for 1998, the Dols lost Tim Bowens in the playoffs and that killed their run defense. And their RB was Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
please, don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

[Philagape]

I'm glad no one can ever again say Manning can't win the big one. I guess QBs who have never done it before CAN do it ....

He does what QBs are suppposed to do. He SHOULD get in players' faces.

He's on his way to being the QB of the decade. Good for him.

[DynaPaul]

Manning winning the Super Bowl just cemented the complete erasure of Marino's legacy. Not only did he break some of Marino's records but now has a ring to go with it and kicked Tom Brady in the balls in the process.

[Ebenezer]

Manning winning the Super Bowl just cemented the complete erasure of Marino's legacy. Not only did he break some of Marino's records but now has a ring to go with it and kicked Tom Brady in the balls in the process.
Marino's gaudy numbers (at the sake of his team) got him into the HOF. He was a terrible leader who gave up on plays and a selfish player :down:

[Mr. Cynical]

Dan Marino. I'm glad he won, but I hope he doesn't win again. He looks like such a whiner out there always *****ing at people.

This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Peyton is all class, has a phenominal work ethic and is humble. Marino was a great QB, but the only thing he shares with Manning is smarts/arm/leadership. Granted that's all you need to win (although he never did, I don't blame Marino), there are different ways to achieve greatness.

[Historian]

He shouldn't be allowed to get up from behind center and run around barking audibles. That should be a motion penalty.

I don't like him.

Even worse...now we're going to have to see his PKU looking face in even more commercials.

:ill:

[LtFinFan66]

:blah:

[Historian]

...but at least he's not a fish.

:squish:

[LtFinFan66]

:blah:

[ricogarion]

This may be a first that an opposing QB of a winning Super Bowl team and I was happy for him,Peyton just doesn't act in a way that makes me dislike or want to see harm come to him.He just does things right and I was glad he got his ring.That car he won wasn't half bad either what a sweet vehicle!

[jamze132]

Something to keep in mind about the Dolphins not winning the big one with Marino, at least during the 90s, was the fact that each year they had two tough games against the Bills. They had some rivalry.

[Dr. Lecter]

He shouldn't be allowed to get up from behind center and run around barking audibles. That should be a motion penalty.

I don't like him.

Even worse...now we're going to have to see his PKU looking face in even more commercials.

:ill:

Why don't you like him? He is a class guy. Never in trouble.

And if he is in the backfield it is not a motion penalty. Were you of the same mindset when Kelly moved around and barked out orders?

At least this should end the idea that all Mannings are losers.

[Jan Reimers]

So he had the #1 scoring defense as a rookie. That's a wash. No rookie QB has EVER won a SB.

As for 1998, the Dols lost Tim Bowens in the playoffs and that killed their run defense. And their RB was Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
You can make excuses all day long but truth is, Marino should have won at least one SB with his ability and the teams he had around him.

And so should Kelly and the Bills. I never make excuses for that.

[Ickybaluky]

Why don't you like him? He is a class guy. Never in trouble.

And if he is in the backfield it is not a motion penalty. Were you of the same mindset when Kelly moved around and barked out orders?

At least this should end the idea that all Mannings are losers.

The guy is flat-out a great player. Marino was as well, BTW. Just because a guy doesn't play for your team doesn't mean you can't appreciate what he does.

BTW, the QB is allowed to move like that pre-snap as long as he doesn't put his hands down under center. Once his hands go under, he isn't supposed to be able to pull them out and move around again. Once he puts his hands under center he is considered in a set position and can't move, just like any offensive player.

[Goobylal]

please, don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Please don't let your opinion get in the way of the facts.

And I'm sorry I had to become a Marino apologist, but it is what it is.

Hell just take a look at Elway. Until they had a defense and TD, he was a SB loser with gaudy numbers.

[Dr. Lecter]

Read the stats again. The Dolphins did have a defense.

[Goobylal]

Yes and the Colts had the 32nd ranked rush defense and gave up chunks of yardage in the playoffs on the ground.

[jamze132]

The guy is flat-out a great player. Marino was as well, BTW. Just because a guy doesn't play for your team doesn't mean you can't appreciate what he does.

BTW, the QB is allowed to move like that pre-snap as long as he doesn't put his hands down under center. Once his hands go under, he isn't supposed to be able to pull them out and move around again. Once he puts his hands under center he is considered in a set position and can't move, just like any offensive player.
I think the every QB breaks does that each game. I don't think it's a rule anymore though.

[mybills]

He shouldn't be allowed to get up from behind center and run around barking audibles. That should be a motion penalty.

I don't like him.


:roflmao:

[gr8slayer]

Peyton Manning is the second best QB in my life time. He's a beast.

[gr8slayer]

Brady > Manning > Montana > Young > Aikman > Marino > Kelly

[Dr. Lecter]

I would place Montana ahead of Brady and Manning. And now Manning ahead of Brady.

[gr8slayer]

I would place Montana ahead of Brady and Manning. And now Manning ahead of Brady.
To be honest I was too young to really appriciate Montana so in the handful of replays I have seen of his games that is how I rank him.

[Dr. Lecter]

The on story about Montana that tells how cool he is, is when, during the game against Cincinatti, that he stopped during the winning drive and asked if that was John Candy in the end zone.

A few plays later he threw the winning TD pass.

[gr8slayer]

The on story about Montana that tells how cool he is, is when, during the game against Cincinatti, that he stopped during the winning drive and asked if that was John Candy in the end zone.

A few plays later he threw the winning TD pass.
lol, I didn't hear about that. That's awesome.

[Philagape]

(in my lifetime)

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Young
5. Favre
6. Elway
7. Marino
8. Aikman
9. Kelly
10. Fouts

[gr8slayer]

(in my lifetime)

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Young
5. Favre
6. Elway
7. Marino
8. Aikman
9. Kelly
10. Fouts
Never saw Fouts play.

[Goobylal]

Montana played when real men played the game. There was no "in the grasp" or being allowed to throw the ball away outside of the tackle box or drawing a PF for pushing the QB after the ball was thrown. There was also no strict enforcement of PI, no "no-chuck" zone and such.

He also played when there were some great teams and coaches, especially defenses, and they were in the NFC. He got destroyed by the likes of the Bears, Giants, Eagles, and Redskins and kept coming back for more.

[superbills]

How can you even consider putting Dan "I can't get sacked so I have to throw interceptions" Marino ahead of anyone on that list? Numbers aside, I think we've pretty well established that the Dolphins would have fared better if they hadn't let Dan dupe them into thinking they could win on his arm alone.

[Philagape]

No team can win on one man's arm alone. Even Montana had help.

Whatever his deficiencies, he was immensely talented. Quick release, could make every throw, made his receivers better, had a nose for the end zone. And his career INT rate was 3 percent, better than half the QBs on that list.

I didn't like him either, but I'm not a homer about it.

[Ingtar33]

Payton, who DOES call his own plays at the line of scrimmage called Rhodes and Adais's numbers enough time to roll up over 190 yards on the ground in the Super Bowl.

You have to hand it to him.

He did it

[DynaPaul]

Brady > Manning > Montana > Young > Aikman > Marino > Kelly

This should read:

Montana > Brady > Manning > Kelly > Marino > Young > Aikman

[Billsrock4life]

Manning >> Marino.

no doubt

[YardRat]

Payton, who DOES call his own plays at the line of scrimmage called Rhodes and Adais's numbers enough time to roll up over 190 yards on the ground in the Super Bowl.

You have to hand it to him.

He did it

Bingo. Marino had the talent around him plenty of times to win it all, he just never trusted anything but his arm.

He was a great passer, but a bad quarterback.

[feelthepain]

It's always a joy to bring this out...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=57

If Manning is so much better, why did it take him 9 years to win the SB?? How many times in the last five years did Peyton have a top 3 offense??? It's not like he hasn't had more then his fair share of chances the last 5 years!! How many crap post season games did Manning have?? How many Chances did Elway get before he won at the end of his career 3 SB's without a win, Elway was on 5 SB teams, how many SB's was Elway's Broncos blown out of the water?? Are all those SB teams only SB teams because of Elway...hell no!!!

[Bling]

:rofl: Marino was a bad quarterback? Kelly was better than Marino? Dolphins would've been better without Marino? Marino was an INT machine?




Then you have other threads whinning abouthow overrated Brady is and how Losman is going to be the greatest QB ever and I really wonder if some of you have brain cells. Some of you either have the worst case of homerism, or you're just plain dumb. Not even people at Finheaven are this dumb.

[chernobylwraiths]

Payton, who DOES call his own plays at the line of scrimmage called Rhodes and Adais's numbers enough time to roll up over 190 yards on the ground in the Super Bowl.

You have to hand it to him.

He did it

Something Kelly didn't do enough of in SB XXV.

I don't know Peyton is a class guy, that is how he is portrayed in commercials and the media. All I'm saying is everytime they flash the camera at him after an incompletion or a sack or any bad play he looks like he's having a tantrum. Just like Marino used to. That is where the comparison ends pretty much.