About defense...

[Tatonka]

the 32nd run defense just won the superbowl.

and it was a cover 2.

discuss.

[OpIv37]

The Colts gave up 5.8 yards per carry. But they got away with it for the same reason they always do: their O kept their D off the field and forced Rex Grossman to pass.

Passing against a cover 2 plays into the strength of the D and Rex Grossman sucks. If you can force him to pass, you'll win.

If the Bills can get an O that can sustain drives and score like the Colts, the cover 2 will work. Until then, expect a lot of losses. I like Losman for the most part but he's no Peyton Manning.

[ParanoidAndroid]

They didn't look like the 32nd run defense during the playoffs.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

There is no doubt that you can throw short and run at a Tampa 2 defense. It's a "bend-but-don't-break" defense that is designed to prevent the big play and force mistakes--by attacking--that keep the opposition out of the end zone. If a team is patient and able to sustain drives by not turning the ball over or committing drive-stalling penalties, an offense can gain a considerable amount of yardage against a Tampa 2 by attacking its weaknesses (all defense have weak spots and so does this one). But, the Tampa 2 defense isn't primarily designed to prevent yardage from being gained, it is designed to limit points allowed. Generating turnovers, getting sacks, tackles for a loss and good tackling are critical to the success of a Tampa 2: turnovers because they end drives without yielding points; sacks and tackles for a loss because they put the offense into difficult convert situations that play into the strength of the defense and can stall drives; and good tackling because the Tampa 2 allows the offense to complete short passes and puts defenders in one-on-one situations in order to prevent the big play and attack at the line of scrimmage, making it imperitive that defenders make plays to hold the offense short of first-down conversions.

Say what you want about the yardage given up by the two defenses in the Super Bowl, but, as I have pointed out in another thread, the two defenses gave up 22 and 10 points respectively: a total of 3 TDs and 4 FGs combined, while generating 3 turnovers and 4 turnovers, including an INT returned for a TD, respectively. The Pats surrendered more TDs and half that number of FGs to the Colts alone in the AFC Championship Game, while generating just 1 turnover.

Yes, Tampa 2 defenses do have a tendency to wear down as games go on if the offense does not give them sufficient time to rest and they are unable to generate the turnovers, sacks, tackles for a loss that help them to stall drives and/or tackle well enough to get off the field. So, yes, Tampa 2 defenses do better when they can rely on an offense that can retain possession and move the ball decently, but, most of all, put up points when given the opportunity to do so. The offense does not have to be spectacular at moving the ball or scoring, but it must be efficient and must avoid turning the ball over. Neither Tampa Bay nor Chicago had high-flying offenses, but were able to be successful enough to get to the Super Bowl with a good Tampa 2 defense, with the Bucs winning the big game. When Indy's key personnel was healthy enough to play, their Tampa 2 defense performed well in this year's playoff run to the Super Bowl title, even though P.Manning and the offense did not play particularly well in their first two playoff games.

No defensive system guarantees that a team is going to win. It takes good personnel and coaching and at least decent play from the offense and special teams: it doesn't matter if it is a 3-4, traditional 4-3, a 4-3 Flex, a Titans 46, a Tampa 2 or one of Belichick's combo defenses. But, they do not judge who wins or loses a game by which team gained the most yardage and which the least: winning and losing are determined by points. And, the Tampa 2 defense is designed to limit the points allowed to the opposition--yardage yielded is not unimportant, but is definitely secondary. It doesn't matter if the opposition gains 430 yards if the defense only gives up 22 points and the offense gets 24, which should not be out of the realm of possibility for a decent--not great, just decent--NFL offense if it does not turn the ball over more than once or twice (let's face it, not many teams are going to win turning the ball over 3 times, let alone 5 times!).

Can the Bills win a Super Bowl with a Tampa 2 defense? There is no reason that they can't if they have the right personnel to play it well and they get some help from their offense and special teams. If you have the right people, it just comes down to execution. But, that's the case with any defense or offense (just look at how many teams have run the WCO since Bill Walsh introduced it to the NFL, or that have run 3-4 defenses since they first began to be played, and have lost--sometimes a LOT!)--there is no infallible, "Silver Bullet" system: it's about the team and the coaches and players, etc. who make up that team.

[ricogarion]

Great points LBF but if you can provide your Tampa 2 defense with a reasonable offense you can see great success from that team,unfortunately the QB play for Chicago created situations the Bears defense could not overcome.

[YardRat]

This Super Bowl reminded me of many of the games the Bills lost this year.

[Ickybaluky]

I'll say this much, Bob Sanders should hold out next year for more money.

[jamze132]

I think the Bills could have given the Colts more of a challenge, much like we did earlier in the year.

[EDS]

the 32nd run defense just won the superbowl.

and it was a cover 2.

discuss.

That 32nd ranked run defense never sniffs the playoffs without the hall of fame caliber quarterback running the offense.

The "success" of the Indy defense is predicated on the fact that the Colts offense routinely controls the clock, has extended offensive drives, consistently puts points on the board and more often then not puts the team in a position where the opposition is playing from behind.

Look how fragile the Bears defense was. They lose one or two key pieces to injury (i.e., Harris, etc.) and they can't stop a thing.

A "bend but don't break" defense sounds a lot like the wishbone offense. It was fashinable once . . .

[ICE74129]

Had they played a team with a good QB, they would have got toasted. They won because they played against grossman and Chicago's OC needs to be fired.

[Mr. Pink]

A "bend but don't break" defense sounds a lot like the wishbone offense. It was fashinable once . . .


Apparently it still is, considering the fact that BOTH superbowl teams play a "bend but don't break" defensive style.

[HHURRICANE]

the 32nd run defense just won the superbowl.

and it was a cover 2.

discuss.

PEYTON MANNING

[OpIv37]

Apparently it still is, considering the fact that BOTH superbowl teams play a "bend but don't break" defensive style.

But you cut the first part of his post- it works if you have a high-powered offense to take the pressure off the D. But if Rex Grossman (or JP Losman, for that matter) is your QB, bend-but-don't-break isn't going to be good enough.

[jpdex12]

Some of you guys need to relax about the cover 2 defense that Fewell wants to run in Buffalo. Both of the teams that played in the superbowl gave up a lot of yardage, especially running, but you have to look at the factors in that game and the year that both of those superbowl teams had this year.

The weather forced both teams to use the run more and the sloppy conditions and turnovers helped dictate a fair amount of play calling. Yes, Peyton passed for 200 plus yards, but there was also 300 plus yards of rushing and you tend to see that more in bad weather games.

Both of those teams that played last night had good enough defenses AND offenses to get them there. Chicago's defense was deadly this year until the injuries got them. Indy was more of a bend but not break and still got them to the super bowl. Their tampa 2 defense shut down the Pats completely to win the previous game and also the Ravens before that.

Ease up on the defense. Perry Fewell is a smart guy and I am sure that the Bills will tweak things just right to have a competitive defense in 2007. As all team sports, it takes the whole team to gel in order to produce wins, so the offense can assist a teams defense to be great as well. Continuity!!!!

[Statman]

the 32nd run defense just won the superbowl.

and it was a cover 2.

discuss.
Are Grossman and Thomas Jones really that hard to defend against, with any D?

[Mr. Pink]

But you cut the first part of his post- it works if you have a high-powered offense to take the pressure off the D. But if Rex Grossman (or JP Losman, for that matter) is your QB, bend-but-don't-break isn't going to be good enough.


If it wasn't good enough with Rex Grossman at QB, then how did the Bears even make the Superbowl? It apparently was good enough for the majority of the season, one game doesn't dictate that the defense is "out of style."

[ICE74129]

What part of BOTH teams have MUCH greater LB play and MUCH Greater DL play are you guys missing.

The BILLS Cover two isn't going to do spit until we get more production from DT, LDE and from TWO LB spots.

Some fans want to hang onto TKO in hopes he recovers. It say part ways and find a guy NOW that can produce. ILB is horrible compared to the ILB play of chicago and Indy and ILB is VITAL in the cover 2.

Both teams can't stop the run and Buffalo is just as bad. Bend but dont break works when you have the KGun or Peyton manning calling his own plays with TWO All pro WR's and a damn good line backed by damn good all around backs and a great TE.

if fewell and marv think we can go into next season with TKO at OLB, Crowell at ILB and Ellison on the outside along with NO Drastic upgrades at DT And win....they are on crack.

[jamze132]

I thought we had 11.5 sacks from the LDE this year with the Denney/Kelsay combo? I think that's good enough. What we need are DTs that can stop the run AND penetrate. I think McCargo, if ever healthy, could put up some good numbers while, helping to disrupt the QBs timing.

[gr8slayer]

They sure as hell haven't been 32nd overall in the playoffs. They allowed 100 less yards per game on the ground in the four play-off games.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

No doubt that the Bills need to get better play from their LBs and interior D-line this coming season. But let me just point out something, that I've already posted in another thread, to those of you who are absolutely convinced that the Bills defense stunk this season:

As bad as the Bills defense was this season: 1st year running a new defense, with all of the weaknesses of the Tampa 2 defense, without adequate personnel at several positions and not enough stand-out play-makers on defense, and starting 4 rookies for most of the season; the Bills ranked 10th in the league in scoring defense.

That vaunted 2004 # ranked defense with the big, fat DTs in the middle, high-priced, big-name free agents and veterans all over the field that a lot of people here seem to think the Bills should go back to was ranked 8th in the NFL in scoring defense that year.

This past season the Bills gave up 27 more points--1.6875 per game--than that 2004 defense. Against an arguably tougher schedule.

The Bills need to improve by getting more of the right players--good quality players and play-makers--who fit the system this off-season. I'm not saying that they don't. But, when it comes to putting the team in a position to win its games, the amount of improvement that is needed is not as great as some seem to think. A couple of good run defenders--a DT and a play-making MLB--to shore up the middle of the defense could not only make this defense look a lot better than it was last season, but improve it enough to give the team a solid chance at making the playoffs, in spite of having a tougher schedule, if it gets a bit more help from the offense.

A great defense can help a mediocre offense win. Sometimes, a great offense can help make a fair defense good enough to win. But, a good defense and a good offense--not great, but good--can also win. The Bills don't need to be great on offense or great on defense next season to vie for a playoff berth, but they do need to be good--better--on both sides of the ball. A good draft and a couple of judicious additions this offseason could very well put them in that position without breaking the bank or jeopardizing their ability to keep the core of young players that they are building together.

[RedEyE]

The Colts also have a 30th ranked Special Teams, something that Chicago obviously exploited early.

[jamze132]

No doubt that the Bills need to get better play from their LBs and interior D-line this coming season. But let me just point out something, that I've already posted in another thread, to those of you who are absolutely convinced that the Bills defense stunk this season:

As bad as the Bills defense was this season: 1st year running a new defense, with all of the weaknesses of the Tampa 2 defense, without adequate personnel at several positions and not enough stand-out play-makers on defense, and starting 4 rookies for most of the season; the Bills ranked 10th in the league in scoring defense.

That vaunted 2004 # ranked defense with the big, fat DTs in the middle, high-priced, big-name free agents and veterans all over the field that a lot of people here seem to think the Bills should go back to was ranked 8th in the NFL in scoring defense that year.

This past season the Bills gave up 27 more points--1.6875 per game--than that 2004 defense. Against an arguably tougher schedule.

The Bills need to improve by getting more of the right players--good quality players and play-makers--who fit the system this off-season. I'm not saying that they don't. But, when it comes to putting the team in a position to win its games, the amount of improvement that is needed is not as great as some seem to think. A couple of good run defenders--a DT and a play-making MLB--to shore up the middle of the defense could not only make this defense look a lot better than it was last season, but improve it enough to give the team a solid chance at making the playoffs, in spite of having a tougher schedule, if it gets a bit more help from the offense.

A great defense can help a mediocre offense win. Sometimes, a great offense can help make a fair defense good enough to win. But, a good defense and a good offense--not great, but good--can also win. The Bills don't need to be great on offense or great on defense next season to vie for a playoff berth, but they do need to be good--better--on both sides of the ball. A good draft and a couple of judicious additions this offseason could very well put them in that position without breaking the bank or jeopardizing their ability to keep the core of young players that they are building together.
Very well said. The key is getting the right players in Buffalo.

...and getting Tim Anderson out.