so we promised not to give clements the franchise tag...

[camelcowboy]

No one said anything about the transition tag. I can see the bills going this route. It gives them the right to match any offer. :up: if the money gets sick they can walk away

[kernowboy]

Can you go transition after franchise?

[ICE74129]

We can't use the transition tag. Each team gets one period (at least that is what keeps coming up in print) and we used it on John Fina I think

[SquishDaFish]

You can use the trans or franchise tag every year if you wish. The only way you lose them is if you put the tag on the player and after he is signed to it he signs long term deal then you lose the tag for the length of that said contract.

[Ickybaluky]

Given what happened with the Steve Hutchinson contract last year, and then the Seahawk response with the Nate Burleson contract, the transition tag is obsolete and may never be used again by any team. The league tried to bargain out those types of "poison pills" in the new CBA, but the NFLPA refused and they still remain.

Any team that wants to sign a transition player just has to insert some nonsense like he becomes the highest paid player on the team if he plays more than 2 home games in a certain state, and it makes the contract impossible to match.

[ICE74129]

Bottom line...marv screwed up. You NEVER put in a contract you will not franchise someone. We could get a first from someone like washington EASY had he not screwed up.

and The homers can bite me...MARV SCREWED UP!! 'but he wanted him in camp on time' ...for what? To go 7-9 and not make the playoffs? At what point does anyone with any common or football sense at all would think nate clements being in camp on time would be THE thing that got us into the playoffs?

It was a royal screwup by marv that I feel will come back to bite us. Do I forgive him, sure but it was a screwup none the less.

[RockStar36]

I assumed that Marv was just being honest with him. He said I'll franchise you this year but we aren't going to keep going year to year to next year I promise not to franchise you. I looked at it as a classy move by Marv.

[venis2k1]

with our rookie dbs it was important to get clements into camp as THE veteran presence in the secondary.

[Mitchy moo]

Maybe the Bills should file that you cannot put a DO NOT FRANCHISE tag in any contract language. They have lawyers and better find a way out of it.

[Ickybaluky]

Maybe the Bills should file that you cannot put a DO NOT FRANCHISE tag in any contract language. They have lawyers and better find a way out of it.

Actually, it is put into contract language at times, and probably was with Clements as well. There is standard language for a Franchise/Transition tag prohibition.

I also don't think it is uncommon to promise not to franchise a player for a second year. The Seahawks did so with Shawn Alexander (it was put into his contract), and then subsequently re-signed him prior to his becoming a FA.

Keep in mind, when a player is franchised he gets the tag amount or 120% of his previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Clements would have qualified for a 120% increase, which would have put his cap number at $8.671,200 for this year if franchised again. The Bills probably figured they weren't going to pay him that much anyway and would take the chance they would either re-sign him move on.

That is hardly screwing up, that is strategy. Guys come and go.

[ICE74129]

I assumed that Marv was just being honest with him. He said I'll franchise you this year but we aren't going to keep going year to year to next year I promise not to franchise you. I looked at it as a classy move by Marv.

Its not classy its STUPID! We owe nate NOTHING. Marv owes the Bills to do everything he can in his power to make us better. That means NOT agreeing to franchise Nate.

What would an additional first rounder do for us this year? TONS. Marv screwed up, plain and simple. Quit making excuses for him. I pray he never does it again.

[ICE74129]

Actually, it is put into contract language at times, and probably was with Clements as well. There is standard language for a Franchise/Transition tag prohibition.

I also don't think it is uncommon to promise not to franchise a player for a second year. The Seahawks did so with Shawn Alexander (it was put into his contract), and then subsequently re-signed him prior to his becoming a FA.

Keep in mind, when a player is franchised he gets the tag amount or 120% of his previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Clements would have qualified for a 120% increase, which would have put his cap number at $8.671,200 for this year if franchised again. The Bills probably figured they weren't going to pay him that much anyway and would take the chance they would either re-sign him move on.

That is hardly screwing up, that is strategy. Guys come and go.

its called stupidity by a rookie GM. No way in hell they didn't have an idea on how much cap room theywould have this year. That said, franchise his ass then trade him to get the cap room back.

It was a **** up plain and simple.

[RockStar36]

You're right. You should be the GM. You're obviously smarter than everyone else.

[Mitchy moo]

You're right. You should be the GM. You're obviously smarter than everyone else.

He's ruder anyways.

[ICE74129]

You're right. You should be the GM. You're obviously smarter than everyone else.

See you can't admit it was a pure screw up on marvs part, which it was. Instead you have to try and turn it to a slap at me.

Marv ****ed up. Thats all there is too it. Your GM needs at all times to do whats best for the team and if slapping a tag on one of the most sought after FA's gets you another first, then that is whats best for your team instad of just letting him walk.

[RockStar36]

He made an agreement w/ Nate last off-season that if he used the tag last year he wouldn't use it again this year. He was being a good man by making the deal and he is being honorable by standing by his word. That is how Marv operates.

Everything Marv does that you don't agree with makes him a stupid rookie GM. Then the minute he makes a good draft pick or FA signing you flip flop and say how good he is doing. I don't get it. I probably never will.

[ICE74129]

He made an agreement w/ Nate last off-season that if he used the tag last year he wouldn't use it again this year. He was being a good man by making the deal and he is being honorable by standing by his word. That is how Marv operates.

Everything Marv does that you don't agree with makes him a stupid rookie GM. Then the minute he makes a good draft pick or FA signing you flip flop and say how good he is doing. I don't get it. I probably never will.

What you don't get is he ****ed up. It wasn't honerable, it wasn't being a good man. It was a royal screw up.

At some point take off the homer glasses and just admit it. Or are you capable of doing so? Marv ****ed up, period. now did I say he is a horrible GM? No. What I did was state fact, he screwed up and screwed the bills by making the agreement. We could use that other pick or picks we would have had from taging and trading clements.

[RockStar36]

Who would have traded a 1st rounder for Nate?

[Captain_Obvious]

ICE is right Rockstar. Take off your homer glasses. You obviously fail to realize that marv screwed this one up. Hopefully he learns from his mistake.

[ICE74129]

Who would have traded a 1st rounder for Nate?

Any team wanting an alleged shut down corner, that has been to the probowl, and is in his prime vs a draft pick that they dont' know how he would turn out.

I don't care if someone offered up their 2nd, 4th this year and a 2nd next year. that is still picks the bills could use.

Again you can't man up and admit marv royally screwed up. Again for the record, I am not saying he isn't going to be a good GM, I am saying he screwed the org with this move. How badly is yet to be seen.

[ICE74129]

ICE is right Rockstar. Take off your homer glasses. You obviously fail to realize that marv screwed this one up. Hopefully he learns from his mistake.

And what he and the marv love in group don't get, He screwed THIS move up royally, No one said he isn't a good GM because we won't know for a couple more years. But it was a royal screw up none the less.

[RockStar36]

I guess time will tell. If he ends up re-signing him then this argument is pointless.

[HHURRICANE]

Rockstar I am 100% in agreement that you honor your commitments.

Unless Marv has a handshake agreement with Nate that says that we get last look on any deal than he screwed up. PERIOD.

However, and ICE are you listening, we won't know if he screwed up until March so you can stop wasting all of the typing until we see what happens.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I doubt anyone would have traded a first rounder for him.

The "me first" attitude is what is comprimising the integrity of the league as far as the game is concerned. I, for one, commend Marv for leading by example and considering the wishes of those around him.

I wish there were more leaders like Marv in every component of society.

[HHURRICANE]

I guess time will tell. If he ends up re-signing him then this argument is pointless.

This post wasn't here when I posted. Yes, I'm hoping that Marv didn't give Nate a free pass and we see why in a month.

[kernowboy]

Nate would've left if we'd not tagged him

He would have held out and have even sat if there had not been a gentleman's agreement with Marv

I think the original plan was upset by Youboty's personal loss - that was he'd learn behind Nate, who'd leave with Youboty stepping up .. I think we can still get a veteran to help Youboty.

What happened to Ahmed Plummer ... surely there's a season or two in the tank there?

[BillsFever21]

He made an agreement w/ Nate last off-season that if he used the tag last year he wouldn't use it again this year. He was being a good man by making the deal and he is being honorable by standing by his word. That is how Marv operates.

Everything Marv does that you don't agree with makes him a stupid rookie GM. Then the minute he makes a good draft pick or FA signing you flip flop and say how good he is doing. I don't get it. I probably never will.

What good FA signing did Marv have last year that would make ICE flip flop? His free agency was absolutely pathetic. The worst in the NFL. We got nothing but a bunch of backup castoffs for 2.5 million a year.

A good GM tags and trade Nate. He is the most wanted player in FA this year. A GM is supposed to do what is best for the team. Giving away a chance to net a 1st or 2nd round pick for a player isn't the best thing for the team.

[BillsFever21]

Nate would've left if we'd not tagged him

He would have held out and have even sat if there had not been a gentleman's agreement with Marv

I think the original plan was upset by Youboty's personal loss - that was he'd learn behind Nate, who'd leave with Youboty stepping up .. I think we can still get a veteran to help Youboty.

What happened to Ahmed Plummer ... surely there's a season or two in the tank there?

Clements would've sat out and turned down 7.3 million? There's not a chance in hell that would've happened. Find another excuse.

[BillsFever21]

I doubt anyone would have traded a first rounder for him.

The "me first" attitude is what is comprimising the integrity of the league as far as the game is concerned. I, for one, commend Marv for leading by example and considering the wishes of those around him.

I wish there were more leaders like Marv in every component of society.

Nice guys finish last. The GM's who will do whatever it takes to get the best deal for their franchise finishes first.

[ICE74129]

Rockstar I am 100% in agreement that you honor your commitments.

Unless Marv has a handshake agreement with Nate that says that we get last look on any deal than he screwed up. PERIOD.

However, and ICE are you listening, we won't know if he screwed up until March so you can stop wasting all of the typing until we see what happens.

Hey Hurricane, are you listening? It doesn't matter if he signs with us or not, it was a ****ed up move. Take off the homer glasses and admit marv ****ed up, plain and simple.

[Dr. Lecter]

Nate would have held out and been a bigger pain in the ass had teh promise not been made. In addition, tagging would have place a ~$12 million hit on the cap immediately.

Admit it ICE, you are wrong on this one. :D

[ICE74129]

Nate would have held out and been a bigger pain in the ass had teh promise not been made. In addition, tagging would have place a ~$12 million hit on the cap immediately.

Admit it ICE, you are wrong on this one. :D

No I am not wrong at all. The Bills knew they had 30+ mill in cap room. They can tag him EASY. Once traded the cap room is immediatly freed up.

Who cares if he held out? Fine his ass every day. We wern't going to be a playoff team in 06 anyway and if marv or DJ thought we were, then they are worst off than most homers on this board.

he screwed up. At some point I had hoped the homers would be man enough to say 'yeah marv screwed the pooch on THIS ONE THING'. But you are not and never will be.

he ****ed up, end of discussion

[Ickybaluky]

Sometimes, you just have to be disciplined and let a guy walk.

Look at NE, Pit, or Ind. They are the three most successful franchises in the NFL in recent years and they all have let very good players go in FA.

[Dr. Lecter]

No I am not wrong at all. The Bills knew they had 30+ mill in cap room. They can tag him EASY. Once traded the cap room is immediatly freed up.

Who cares if he held out? Fine his ass every day. We wern't going to be a playoff team in 06 anyway and if marv or DJ thought we were, then they are worst off than most homers on this board.

he screwed up. At some point I had hoped the homers would be man enough to say 'yeah marv screwed the pooch on THIS ONE THING'. But you are not and never will be.

he ****ed up, end of discussion

You can't fine a guy who has not signed a contract, so you are wrong on that point.

As for having cap space, with the new tender offer on the books, you woudl limiting the Bills ability to go out and spend money (as you are asking for) and sign every big name FA out there. You can't have it both ways.

[jamze132]

Well if not minding what Marv did with Nate makes me a homer, than by God, I am the flaming type.

Marv already knew that Nate was leavingas soon as he had the chance. He made a deal with Nate to stick around for one more year. That's it. Could he have tagged him last year without the "handshake" aggreement to not tag him this year? Of course he could have. But he made a deal in good faith to have Nate here for one more year so he some of the younger DBs could see how a pretty good player plays the game. I think he served his purpose last year and he has earned the right to test the free agent waters.

And there isn't anything saying that Nate won't be in a Bills uni next year. if marv agrees to match an offer that Nate is considering, he might be right back in Buffalo where he is already comfortable knowing the system and personnel. he might even sit back and remember that Marv kept his word and even give him a little "hometown discount". No one knows yet, let's see how it all plays out.

[TigerJ]

I think regarding Nate, Marv decided that to promise not to franchise him and get his services as a player with his cooperation was a better option than having him sit out training camp or more and them when he reported either did not play well, became a locker room cancer, or both. It was a judgement call, and you can't really determine if it was the better way to go unless you could move to that alternate universe where Marv franchised him and didn't make the promise not to do it again.

[alohabillsfan]

You're right. You should be the GM. You're obviously smarter than everyone else.


I do not want a GM that thinks he cannot use the transition tag because it was used on J. Fina 20 freaking years ago..... LMAO!

[alohabillsfan]

Nice guys finish last. The GM's who will do whatever it takes to get the best deal for their franchise finishes first.


Yep... Glad we got rid of TD!

[ParanoidAndroid]

Nice guys finish last. The GM's who will do whatever it takes to get the best deal for their franchise finishes first.

Not always and that's why we root against the others. We love the underdogs and despise the big wigs. It's the reason we love to see big spenders like Washington screw the pooch every year. It's why we love to see the Cowboys go into a spiral.
I can honestly tell you that if we won it the Jones/Snyder/Craft way, I wouldn't feel as good as I would if we went the Levy way.
Levy just oozes positive Karma.