Not Happy with Marvs Press conference?

[feelthepain]

read this,



1. Waiting for a better wave: Watch for the top teams to skip free agency's expensive first wave. The Colts, Patriots, Bengals, Chargers, Eagles, Ravens, Panthers and others probably will sit out the big spending. Their money will go into re-signings. Fans might be antsy if their home teams don't go big into free agency, but spending in free agency doesn't necessary translate into victories. The Colts won a Super Bowl by adding only kicker Adam Vinatieri (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3727), who signed for $2.4 million a year. The Chargers added only safety Marlon McCree (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5681) and backup tight end Aaron Shea (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5139), and won 14 games. The Patriots went to the AFC Championship Game and their net gain out of free agency was Reche Caldwell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5934), who made $900,000 last year.


If I were a Bill fan.....(sorry, I just got a little sick) I wouldn't worry about today's Press conference, it seems like a growing trend not to pay out the nose, but coach-up. Seems it works fr some good teams. Looks like Marv is as smart a GM, as he was HC!

[gr8slayer]

Like I said before, you build a SB team with good drafting not overspending.

[jmb1099]

read this,



If I were a Bill fan.....(sorry, I just got a little sick) I wouldn't worry about today's Press conference, it seems like a growing trend not to pay out the nose, but coach-up. Seems it works fr some good teams. Looks like Marv is as smart a GM, as he was HC!
Who are you and what have you done with FTP?

[alohabillsfan]

read this,



If I were a Bill fan.....(sorry, I just got a little sick) I wouldn't worry about today's Press conference, it seems like a growing trend not to pay out the nose, but coach-up. Seems it works fr some good teams. Looks like Marv is as smart a GM, as he was HC!

Dam FTP, I hate to say this but your right, I wish actual Bills fans could feel this way!

[cordog]

Like I said before, you build a SB team with good drafting not overspending.


Its worked out pretty well for the squeelers and pats!

[patmoran2006]

I don't disagree with this at all. Anyone with sense knows that a Super Bowl team is built through the draft. and the Bills have started to plant their seeds with losman, evans, mcgahee (if he ever gets his head out of his ass), whitner and some others.

But all around they dont have the talent that the Colts and Pats do. I take that back, they do have talent. They dont have the talent on the interior..

So obviously they should be drafting at those spots. But they also have the money to make some kind of impact and kind of speed up the process of being competitive upfront by adding a couple of interior players that could help them immediately.

now Steinbach may command too much money, but there are other guards who would be worth it to bring to this team. Not always, but sometimes a player comes in FA thats worth the hefty price tag. Dielman is one of them. So is Charles Grant, should he even be available.

[Mitchy moo]

Who are you and what have you done with FTP?

call the police, he has been kidnapped and forced to give up his screen name.

[X-Era]

read this,



If I were a Bill fan.....(sorry, I just got a little sick) I wouldn't worry about today's Press conference, it seems like a growing trend not to pay out the nose, but coach-up. Seems it works fr some good teams. Looks like Marv is as smart a GM, as he was HC!

you missed a key phrase: TOP TEAMS. We arent one. Those teams are perennial playoff teams, they dont need a drastic improvement in talent. Can the same be said for us?

I think its inaccurate to call #1 a growing trend, what it is is a plan for teams that dont need that much.

Thats not us.

[Yasgur's Farm]

That's right... Top teams...
1) Already have the talent.
2) Therefore they're already paying for that talent.
3) The result... they don't have the need or the cap room to hit the 1st tier.

Teams like the Bills...
1) While they have some talent... They have huge holes to fill due to poor drafting or past purging to get out of cap hell.
2) They are behind the game. Building from the draft would work, but takes much longer.
3) Marv said last season "Now days teams have the ability to get real good real fast".

[alohabillsfan]

you missed a key phrase: TOP TEAMS. We arent one. Those teams are perennial playoff teams, they dont need a drastic improvement in talent. Can the same be said for us?

I think its inaccurate to call #1 a growing trend, what it is is a plan for teams that dont need that much.

Thats not us.


Gee, did you happen to see how they became top teams?

[jamze132]

Finally FTP sais something that wasn't meant to detroy the Bills and their fans. Nice job!

[Mitchy moo]

I think the Bills need JP to step up this year and be the gamer he can be. If that comes together we will look better as a team. Give him the OL protection he needs and the ability to actually run over a 4.2 yards average and we'll do just fine.

[Tatonka]

Who are you and what have you done with FTP?

rofl.. i was just thinking the same thing.

[patmoran2006]

if they land Cato June and a quality guard they will be fine...

[jimmifli]

Like I said before, you build a SB team with good drafting not overspending.
You build a superbowl team with really good players. It doesn't matter how you get them.

[feelthepain]

Finally FTP sais something that wasn't meant to detroy the Bills and their fans. Nice job!

You can stop acting like some Bill fans here are innocent victims. I only give what I get. Like I've said a 1000 times, go back through all my threads and see how many times I actually start trouble here, 99% of the time when I post something you don't like, I'm reponding to an attack, or a ridiculous homer statement by a Bill fan. I try to post with respect here, it goes to show you how often some Bill fins need to take shots, so I return them. I think you're a bit blind to both sides of the fence.

[Jan Reimers]

I like what Marv said. We are basically following the Patriot's model, rather than the Redskins'. Who could have a problem with that?

[patmoran2006]

Look.. I dont want a Redskins style bonanza either.

I just want good replacements for Nate and Fletch (not rookies), and a really SOLID guard.. if we get anything else, bonus.

[jmb1099]

You can stop acting like some Bill fans here are innocent victims. I only give what I get. Like I've said a 1000 times, go back through all my threads and see how many times I actually start trouble here, 99% of the time when I post something you don't like, I'm reponding to an attack, or a ridiculous homer statement by a Bill fan. I try to post with respect here, it goes to show you how often some Bill fins need to take shots, so I return them. I think you're a bit blind to both sides of the fence.
Meds wore off again...oh well it was nice while it lasted

[Mahdi]

You build a superbowl team with really good players. It doesn't matter how you get them.
Thats not necessarily true---- you build a super bowl team with a cohesive unit of good players--- and that usually comes through drafting good players who have played together for a couple years.

[X-Era]

Gee, did you happen to see how they became top teams? Peyton Manning Marvin Harrison Dwight Freeney Reggie Wayne Tom Brady Chad Johnson Ray Lewis Julius Peppers Who exactly do we have thats in this caliper again? They are top teams because they have top players (in part), we dont have a single one. And THAT is why we cant embrace their plan, were not at their level yet, and it takes a few top talents to get there.

[Jan Reimers]

Top teams build primarily through the draft. They use the FA process selectively, not overpaying for big names.

I believe that is what we are trying to do.

[jamze132]

You can stop acting like some Bill fans here are innocent victims. I only give what I get. Like I've said a 1000 times, go back through all my threads and see how many times I actually start trouble here, 99% of the time when I post something you don't like, I'm reponding to an attack, or a ridiculous homer statement by a Bill fan. I try to post with respect here, it goes to show you how often some Bill fins need to take shots, so I return them. I think you're a bit blind to both sides of the fence.
FTP, for the hundredth time, I don't care what other Bills fans say. It doesn't matter. What matters to me is that 90% of your posts are meant in a negative way towards the Bills and other posters on here. Of course there are Bills fans that are idiots that say what they want. It has nothing to do with me and you. So let it go. if you want toa rgue with someone sbout the Bills, fine do it. It just seems like everything you post is a Bills slam. So get over it.

[YardRat]

Peyton Manning Marvin Harrison Dwight Freeney Reggie Wayne Tom Brady Chad Johnson Ray Lewis Julius Peppers Who exactly do we have thats in this caliper again? They are top teams because they have top players (in part), we dont have a single one. And THAT is why we cant embrace their plan, were not at their level yet, and it takes a few top talents to get there.

You do realize every player you mentioned was drafted, not signed as a free agent, don't you?

I don't agree with your talent assessment, either...We at least have Evans and Peters on offense...Schobel, Whitner, Simpson, and Crowell on defense.

Hopefully others will step up this year.

[SABURZFAN]

I don't agree with your talent assessment, either...We at least have Evans and Peters on offense...Schobel, Whitner, Simpson, and Crowell on defense.

Hopefully others will step up this year.


if i had posted this,i would have gotten ripped by a certain "C-Lick" for not mentioning losman.

[Statman]

Like I said before, you build a SB team with good drafting not overspending.
You need players in their primes. Those are typically not players in their first contracts. Some of them will contribute, but not to the extent necessary.

Also, do you think that the way the Bills have drafted will build a SB team?

[McBFLO]

That's right... Top teams...
1) Already have the talent.
2) Therefore they're already paying for that talent.
3) The result... they don't have the need or the cap room to hit the 1st tier.

Teams like the Bills...
1) While they have some talent... They have huge holes to fill due to poor drafting or past purging to get out of cap hell.
2) They are behind the game. Building from the draft would work, but takes much longer.
3) Marv said last season "Now days teams have the ability to get real good real fast".
But looking at those teams, with the exception of maybe the Eagles since they're always in the market for a big-name signing, all of those teams have drafted really well in previous years, which has gotten them to where they are now, thus enabling them to take the approach of skipping that first wave of FA.

[McBFLO]

You do realize every player you mentioned was drafted, not signed as a free agent, don't you?

I don't agree with your talent assessment, either...We at least have Evans and Peters on offense...Schobel, Whitner, Simpson, and Crowell on defense.

Hopefully others will step up this year.
If I had read the entire post before signing, I would've seen this, haha. Good post!

[feelthepain]

FTP, for the hundredth time, I don't care what other Bills fans say. It doesn't matter. What matters to me is that 90% of your posts are meant in a negative way towards the Bills and other posters on here. Of course there are Bills fans that are idiots that say what they want. It has nothing to do with me and you. So let it go. if you want toa rgue with someone sbout the Bills, fine do it. It just seems like everything you post is a Bills slam. So get over it.

I can't help you only read what you want to read, so learn how to read. Did you read the first post in this thread?? I wasn't responding to anyones chilidsh remarks or purposeful digs. It was just a football thread. Stop acting like I'm just trashing the Bills, I'm only trashing the Bills when someone is trashing the fins, obviously if someone isn't trash talking about the Fins, I'm not trash talking about the Bills. Like I said, learn how to read and stop being a child and acting like I'm the only one slining mud. Next time you want to jump on one of my posts, read the posts that came before it.....homer!

[jamze132]

I can't help you only read what you want to read, so learn how to read. Did you read the first post in this thread?? I wasn't responding to anyones chilidsh remarks or purposeful digs. It was just a football thread. Stop acting like I'm just trashing the Bills, I'm only trashing the Bills when someone is trashing the fins, obviously if someone isn't trash talking about the Fins, I'm not trash talking about the Bills. Like I said, learn how to read and stop being a child and acting like I'm the only one slining mud. Next time you want to jump on one of my posts, read the posts that came before it.....homer!
That is the biggest bunch of bull**** I have heard in a while come out of your mouth, well at least since your last post. Do you have any idea what the hell you type? Or do your little fingers not keep up with your brain.

And for the record, you are the biggest Dolphin's homer that comes on the website. You don't know ****. You come on here thinking that the Dolphins are the better team than the Bills yet you are the only Dolphin fan on here that seems to think that.

Go read some more Bills news and start threads about it, Dolphin boy.

[Night Train]

I like what Marv said. We are basically following the Patriot's model, rather than the Redskins'. Who could have a problem with that?

Multiple posters here.

" Oh look ! Something Shiny ! I want it ! " = The Dan Snyder method.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm sure Madden and Fantasy football are great diversions. I just wish some posters would return from Never Never Land when they discuss the real world of NFL football.

[Mr. Pink]

Top teams don't use FA or trades to acquire TOP talent now?
Are you kidding me?

Pats-Rodney Harrison UFA Corey Dillon Trade outside of Tom Brady those are their two most important players until Maroney this year offset some of Dillons' worth.

Steelers-when they won the SB....Bettis UFA who got everything and anything in short yardage situations, EXTREMELY key player.

Bears-Thomas Jones? you guessed FA! Muhsin Muhammad? ding, another FA! Who on their offense was more important than either of those two? Ogunleye-trade.

Colts-their biggest addition was a DT midway through the season, a guy many around here had some hopes of getting. They get him and all of a sudden their suspect run D toughens up and they win a SB. Coincidence? hardly.

Tampa Bay-Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell FA signees. Hell both teams in that SB had FA QBs and top WRs that were brought in via FA. Simeon Rice? you guessed it, another free agent acquisition.

You're fooling yourself if you think teams build entirely via the draft, or only build their key cogs via the draft. Above is the past 5 SB champions and last years runner up and their VITAL free agent acquisitions to their success.

[feelthepain]

That is the biggest bunch of bull**** I have heard in a while come out of your mouth, well at least since your last post. Do you have any idea what the hell you type? Or do your little fingers not keep up with your brain.

And for the record, you are the biggest Dolphin's homer that comes on the website. You don't know ****. You come on here thinking that the Dolphins are the better team than the Bills yet you are the only Dolphin fan on here that seems to think that.

Go read some more Bills news and start threads about it, Dolphin boy.

TEHN FRIKIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I don't know any Dolphin fan here that thinks the Bills are better then the Dolphins. Why would they? Your team only beat one winning team last year and our O and D are both ranked higher then yours.

[Jan Reimers]

TEHN FRIKIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I don't know any Dolphin fan here that thinks the Bills are better then the Dolphins. Why would they?

Perhaps because we had a better overall record, a better division record, and beat you twice head to head. But I guess to a Dolphin fan, two ass whippings by the Bills in the same season are not nearly as important as your offensive and defensive stats.

When the league begins to use something other than actual won-loss records - like whining fans and lame brain excuses - to determine success, your Dolphins will actually have a chance.

[feelthepain]

Perhaps because we had a better overall record, a better division record, and beat you twice head to head. But I guess to a Dolphin fan, two ass whippings by the Bills in the same season are not nearly as important as your offensive and defensive stats.

When the league begins to use something other than actual won-loss records - like whining fans and lame brain excuses - to determine success, your Dolphins will actually have a chance.

You had one more win then us....we didn't have Ricky or Daunte, we could go back and forth, but the Bottom line is no one but Bill fans think the Bills are better. Your team couldn't beat the Pats, or Bears, the fins did we also beat KC three playoff teams, so at least we beat teams with winning records, you won games against teams that sucked...woooppee!! Our D is much, much, much better then yours, and Our O will be better with Ricky and a healthy Daunte.

[SABURZFAN]

TEHN FRIKIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I don't know any Dolphin fan here that thinks the Bills are better then the Dolphins. Why would they?



because they're too busy pulling the broom out of their dupa? :idunno:

[Devin]

You had one more win then us....we didn't have Ricky or Daunte, we could go back and forth, but the Bottom line is no one but Bill fans think the Bills are better. Your team couldn't beat the Pats, or Bears, the fins did we also beat KC three playoff teams, so at least we beat teams with winning records, you won games against teams that sucked...woooppee!! Our D is much, much, much better then yours, and Our O will be better with Ricky and a healthy Daunte.

Im not gonna debate players or stats.

Ill simply say the biggest difference is the Bills were EXPECTED to play poorly. A few pre-season mocks had us picking Brady Quinn #1. Meanwhile Losman tosses up a 3K/19TD season, Lee Evans flat out dominated even while double teamed, our entire draft class contributed to the team, we found our LT of the future...etc. The team grew a lot this season.

The Fins meanwhile were EXPECTED to be a playoff team maybe even pushing for a SB birth. They flopped, Saban ditches the team, Brown had a less then stellar year....etc. Of course you have solid players, and yes absolutley this coming season may be a complete 360. That can happen to any team.

I wont argue whose better or worse because its pointless we are going to see it differently almost no matter what. This coming season will show a lot for both teams. Even losing Nate/Fletch I expect us to compete. All of our rookies getting playing time, I hope anyway, helped them and will have them playing even better this coming year.

[feelthepain]

Im not gonna debate players or stats.

Ill simply say the biggest difference is the Bills were EXPECTED to play poorly. A few pre-season mocks had us picking Brady Quinn #1. Meanwhile Losman tosses up a 3K/19TD season, Lee Evans flat out dominated even while double teamed, our entire draft class contributed to the team, we found our LT of the future...etc. The team grew a lot this season.

The Fins meanwhile were EXPECTED to be a playoff team maybe even pushing for a SB birth. They flopped, Saban ditches the team, Brown had a less then stellar year....etc. Of course you have solid players, and yes absolutley this coming season may be a complete 360. That can happen to any team.

I wont argue whose better or worse because its pointless we are going to see it differently almost no matter what. This coming season will show a lot for both teams. Even losing Nate/Fletch I expect us to compete. All of our rookies getting playing time, I hope anyway, helped them and will have them playing even better this coming year.


Losing your two best players will do that, do you think the Colts would have made the Playoffs without Peyton and Marvin?? How about the Pats and Brady and Samuel, their two best players? Or Cincy, Plamer and Johnson?? Fact is if those teams lost their two best players they wouldn't be playoff teams either...especially if the QB is one of the two lost. You Bill fans keep forgetting the facts, just so you can live in some fantasy world , I guess.

[dolphan117]

Top teams don't use FA or trades to acquire TOP talent now?
Are you kidding me?

Pats-Rodney Harrison UFA Corey Dillon Trade outside of Tom Brady those are their two most important players until Maroney this year offset some of Dillons' worth.

Steelers-when they won the SB....Bettis UFA who got everything and anything in short yardage situations, EXTREMELY key player.

Bears-Thomas Jones? you guessed FA! Muhsin Muhammad? ding, another FA! Who on their offense was more important than either of those two? Ogunleye-trade.

Colts-their biggest addition was a DT midway through the season, a guy many around here had some hopes of getting. They get him and all of a sudden their suspect run D toughens up and they win a SB. Coincidence? hardly.

Tampa Bay-Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell FA signees. Hell both teams in that SB had FA QBs and top WRs that were brought in via FA. Simeon Rice? you guessed it, another free agent acquisition.

You're fooling yourself if you think teams build entirely via the draft, or only build their key cogs via the draft. Above is the past 5 SB champions and last years runner up and their VITAL free agent acquisitions to their success.Agreed, its critical to draft well but you also have to make good free agent signings. Ignoring either one or saying its unimportant is ridiculous to me. Just try and tell the saints that either doesn't matter, without the draft they would have been without Bush and Colsten...... But without free agency they would have been without Brees. Subtract any of those 3 guys and they probably dont go to the AFC championship game.

[SABURZFAN]

Losing your two best players will do that



weren't taylor and thomas were healthy the whole year?

[feelthepain]

weren't taylor and thomas were healthy the whole year?

Yeah, and we had a top 5 D. The D didn't let us down, the O did.

[YardRat]

Top teams don't use FA or trades to acquire TOP talent now?
Are you kidding me?

Pats-Rodney Harrison UFA Corey Dillon Trade outside of Tom Brady those are their two most important players until Maroney this year offset some of Dillons' worth.

Steelers-when they won the SB....Bettis UFA who got everything and anything in short yardage situations, EXTREMELY key player.

Bears-Thomas Jones? you guessed FA! Muhsin Muhammad? ding, another FA! Who on their offense was more important than either of those two? Ogunleye-trade.

Colts-their biggest addition was a DT midway through the season, a guy many around here had some hopes of getting. They get him and all of a sudden their suspect run D toughens up and they win a SB. Coincidence? hardly.

Tampa Bay-Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell FA signees. Hell both teams in that SB had FA QBs and top WRs that were brought in via FA. Simeon Rice? you guessed it, another free agent acquisition.

You're fooling yourself if you think teams build entirely via the draft, or only build their key cogs via the draft. Above is the past 5 SB champions and last years runner up and their VITAL free agent acquisitions to their success.

I don't think anybody is advocating completely ignoring free agency to add pieces to the puzzle...just that going overboard on 'name' players isn't as important as building through the draft. Go through the Super Bowl rosters you mentioned and see how many of the starters, the real core of the team, were drafted instead of picked up in other manners.

As far as the players you mentioned specifically, let's also not forget...

Rodney Harrison was coming off of an injury and past his best years when NE picked him up...Dillon, even though he was in the prime of his career, came with a malcontent tag and a rep as a 'Me' guy.

Bettis was on his way to 'bust' after a couple of sub-par years in St Louis when Pittsburgh picked him up, and really, Pittsburgh won nothing with him as the featured back. Only when his role came in relief and situational did the Steelers bring home the prize.

Cedric Benson was drafted to replace Thomas Jones, who supposedly wasn't good enough. Muhsin Muhhammed wasn't really considered top-tier at the time of his signing.

McFarland...a good pick up, and I wish the Bills had pulled the trigger, but not upper-echelon by any means.

Brad Johnson was 'old', and McCardell past his prime. Rice was a definite talent, but again after a couple of years in Arizona conventional wisdom was his future could go either way, boom or bust.

None of these guys, save for maybe Dillon (maybe), were considered 'gotta have's' at the time of their acquisitions.

[SABURZFAN]

Yeah, and we had a top 5 D. The D didn't let us down, the O did.



sounds like a bunch of mularkey to me. :snicker:

[jamze132]

TEHN FRIKIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I don't know any Dolphin fan here that thinks the Bills are better then the Dolphins. Why would they? Your team only beat one winning team last year and our O and D are both ranked higher then yours.
yeah but we still beat you twice and had a better record, so explain to all of us why the Dolphins were the better team last year. We are all dying to hear your reasons for the Dolphins losing twice to the Bills.

[jamze132]

TEHN FRIKIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I don't know any Dolphin fan here that thinks the Bills are better then the Dolphins. Why would they? Your team only beat one winning team last year and our O and D are both ranked higher then yours.
It's not our fault we had to beat the Dolphins twice.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think anybody is advocating completely ignoring free agency to add pieces to the puzzle...just that going overboard on 'name' players isn't as important as building through the draft. Go through the Super Bowl rosters you mentioned and see how many of the starters, the real core of the team, were drafted instead of picked up in other manners.

As far as the players you mentioned specifically, let's also not forget...

Rodney Harrison was coming off of an injury and past his best years when NE picked him up...Dillon, even though he was in the prime of his career, came with a malcontent tag and a rep as a 'Me' guy.

Bettis was on his way to 'bust' after a couple of sub-par years in St Louis when Pittsburgh picked him up, and really, Pittsburgh won nothing with him as the featured back. Only when his role came in relief and situational did the Steelers bring home the prize.

Cedric Benson was drafted to replace Thomas Jones, who supposedly wasn't good enough. Muhsin Muhhammed wasn't really considered top-tier at the time of his signing.

McFarland...a good pick up, and I wish the Bills had pulled the trigger, but not upper-echelon by any means.

Brad Johnson was 'old', and McCardell past his prime. Rice was a definite talent, but again after a couple of years in Arizona conventional wisdom was his future could go either way, boom or bust.

None of these guys, save for maybe Dillon (maybe), were considered 'gotta have's' at the time of their acquisitions.

I won't completely disagree with any of this.

But all these players were vital cogs to championship teams and had a HUGE impact on making their teams championship caliber.

I'm just sick of seeing all this "you gotta build from within" "not spend the dollars in FA" nonsense. This isn't the NFL of 20 years ago with Plan B FA, where every player who made his way to it was because he couldn't hack it anymore. You don't have the time and/or money to sit year after year on what you have and hope it develops, because by the time it does, those players are commanding HUGE contracts and some other team will be more than happy to give it to them.

FA is no longer other teams' castoffs, it's those franchise game changer type guys who their former teams can no longer afford. Do you think Indy really wanted to lose someone with the talent of Edge? Sure they didn't skip a beat when he departed, but 20 years ago, he still woulda been a Colt today.

20 years ago and before, yes, you built your team through the draft, because it was the only way to build a team. Trades are rare and the guys who hit FA were mainly bums that their old teams didn't want anymore.

It's hard, damn hard, to compete if you're using an antiquated style to try and win.

[feelthepain]

yeah but we still beat you twice and had a better record, so explain to all of us why the Dolphins were the better team last year. We are all dying to hear your reasons for the Dolphins losing twice to the Bills.

It's a division game...they aren't like other games. Just because you win a division game doesn't mean you're a great team or better then the team you beat in your division. We beat the Pats this year...are we better then them?? Do you even watch football?? Seriously, why do I have to explain meaning of a division game to you? Why did the Bills lose by 30+ points to the Bears, a team Miami beat by 20+ why did the Bills lose twice to the Pats a team Miami beat by 20+ points?? You act like because you beat Miami twice that's it, that's all.

If both teams only played 2 games all year then you'd have an argument, but they play 16 games. Miami beat three playoff teams the Bills beat one and the three teams we beat were better then the one team you beat. We had a better D and O statistically, without our starting probolw QB and starting probowl RB, we had a top five D, put a helthy Daunte and Ricky back in our O lineup and are a much better team....THATS A FACT!!!!!! Yet we still managed a better O ranking then the Bills without Daunte and Ricky. It's not like the Bills beat better teams and had better rankings and statistics then Miami and I'm saying Miami was better. When you look at the whole picture...not just one or two things that favor your team Miami is the better team.

[Jan Reimers]

FTP, we drubbed you both games head to head (including a 21-0 shutout), and had a better overall record. Unless you're about 12, how can you continue to argue that you were a better team last year?

[MikeInRoch]

I do not believe that people continue to argue with FTP. Anyone who honestly thinks that Culpepper is a better QB than Brady obviously knows nothing about football, and should be ignored.

[Jan Reimers]

I do not believe that people continue to argue with FTP. Anyone who honestly thinks that Culpepper is a better QB than Brady obviously knows nothing about football, and should be ignored.
You're right. It's like arguing with my 7 year old grandson, except my grandson knows more about football.

[feelthepain]

FTP, we drubbed you both games head to head (including a 21-0 shutout), and had a better overall record. Unless you're about 12, how can you continue to argue that you were a better team last year?

Because the two stats you look at don't tell the whole story and when the experts look at who's better they don't use overall and head to head to determine the better team. Example: NE/Indy- Indy won the regular season matchup and had the same record and Indy was playing at home, yet NE was the favorite. Why? According to you all that matters is final records and head to head!!! The Reason, since you're too slow to figure it out is because there are things called intangibles. Which just because Indy won the first matchup doesn't mean they were the better team, sure Indy won the game, but if they played the game 10 out of 10 times, NE would win more games. That's why NE was chosen to win the game, the odds favored NE. You only want to look at the cover of the book because you're affraid to open the book, why? Because the the story inside doesn't fabvor the Bills. Typical, Bill fans do this crap every year, they do one or two things better then someone else and that's all they see. You Bill fans want so badly to be respected that you live off one or two things then act like that proves how good your team is.

You ignore the wins, why? Because you only beat one good team. You Ignore the loses, why because you lost to almost every good team you played. You Ignore your O rankings, why? Because you were 27th overall. You ignore your Run D, why? Because you were 28th overall. You think your secondary was better then they really were because everyone you played ran the ball against instead of pass against you, why? Cause they could, giving your passing D an undeserved higher ranking. So basically, your whole D was a joke. You live off your QB like he made strides, yet he was next to the bottom of the league in nearly evey category. You rushing attack was one of the worst in the league.


Now in all the stats above Miami was ranked higher, obviously you think the final record tells the whole story, obviously it doesn't because we ended the season ranked higher on both sides of the ball....with our backup QB and no Ricky Williams. You'll continue to ignore the whole story, but then again the Bill fans do it every year.

[feelthepain]

I do not believe that people continue to argue with FTP. Anyone who honestly thinks that Culpepper is a better QB than Brady obviously knows nothing about football, and should be ignored.


This from Weird Al's secret lover.......prove where I said Daunte was better then Tom! What I've always said is Daunte has a lot of numbers that are better then Toms. That's a fact!

[patmoran2006]

Culpepper is a JOKE you gotta be kidding me.. If we played that clown 16 times per year we'd make the 85 Bears defense look soft.

he's the worst QB in the division.

[ddaryl]

LMFAO @ FTP

we beat your asses twice... end of discussion fool

[Jan Reimers]

What I've always said is Daunte has a lot of numbers that are better then Toms. That's a fact!

What numbers? His out-of-wedlock children?

[raphael120]

this post is gettin waaaaaaaaayyyyy off topic

[Dr. Lecter]

Because the two stats you look at don't tell the whole story and when the experts look at who's better they don't use overall and head to head to determine the better team.

I consider win/loss record to be kinda important.

[feelthepain]

I consider win/loss record to be kinda important.


If you were 14-2 and we were 7-9, yeah I's consider the wins and loses important. But the Bills had all of one more win....woooow!!! That's incredible!!!! Our wins were against playoff teams yours ....not. Add to that the fact that we had a better O and D and anyone outside of Bills land would see Miami is the better team, it's that simple. They aren't going to look at one win or head to head to determine the better team, they will look at the whole picture, which is what I keep telling you Bill fans, but you have nothing but two games to claim your better then the fins?? Whatever.

[jamze132]

If you were 14-2 and we were 7-9, yeah I's consider the wins and loses important. But the Bills had all of one more win....woooow!!! That's incredible!!!! Our wins were against playoff teams yours ....not. Add to that the fact that we had a better O and D and anyone outside of Bills land would see Miami is the better team, it's that simple. They aren't going to look at one win or head to head to determine the better team, they will look at the whole picture, which is what I keep telling you Bill fans, but you have nothing but two games to claim your better then the fins?? Whatever.
But again, the crappy Bills team beat the awesome cool Dolphins twice. :dance:


Your response....

[feelthepain]

But again, the crappy Bills team beat the awesome cool Dolphins twice. :dance:


Your response....



I simply stated the Dolphins are better, stop crying about it.

[Bill Cody]

I simply stated the Dolphins are better, stop crying about it.

Saying that your two best players are really the Human Turnover Machine and Ricky Jane shows how little you know. Daunte blows. Ricky is not even your best RB. You are what you are. And what you are last year is a team with a worse record than the Bills that got swept decisively by them. Deal with it homer boy.

[feelthepain]

Saying that your two best players are really the Human Turnover Machine and Ricky Jane shows how little you know. Daunte blows. Ricky is not even your best RB. You are what you are. And what you are last year is a team with a worse record than the Bills that got swept decisively by them. Deal with it homer boy.


I deal with it fine, the fins are better no matter what you think. "Daunte Blows"??? That's stupidity at it's finest, typical from a Bill fan.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yeah, a better record and a 2-0 head-to-head record is meaningless.

[Bill Cody]

I deal with it fine, the fins are better no matter what you think. "Daunte Blows"??? That's stupidity at it's finest, typical from a Bill fan.

If they're better how come they can't beat us? And Daunte does blow. Look at his stats since he lost his security blanket Moss. He's an ok runner and he throw a nice deep ball. But that ain't enough.

[feelthepain]

Yeah, a better record and a 2-0 head-to-head record is meaningless.

Well lets look to the future, since the past is in the past. If you could go into 07 with two wins against the Dolphins in 06 or a top 5 defense, which would you choose? If you could have Ricky and Ronnie or McGehee and Thomas who would you chose? If you could have the 20th ranked O or the 27th ranked O which would you choose?? You can have your 2 wins, I'll take the top 5 D and 20th ranked O and Ricky and Ronnie over your two wins. It's not like the Bills won the games because they were the better team. If that were true, then Miami must be better then NE, Chicago and KC!!....Or is this just some back country, dumber then a box of rocks logic Bill fans use to judge their team??? Seriously, quit the stupidity.


BTW, since you like to live in the past...can we talk about 4 consecutive loses in four SB's for the Bills and two SB wins in three consecutive SB's for the fins?? I'm willing to bet you Bill fans don't want to talk about that history, but when you win, it's a whole different story.

[feelthepain]

If they're better how come they can't beat us? And Daunte does blow. Look at his stats since he lost his security blanket Moss. He's an ok runner and he throw a nice deep ball. But that ain't enough.

Is Miami better then Chicago, NE and KC?? Miami beat them.


What has Randy done with Daunte?? Are all Bill really this dumb?? If all Daunte could do is run and throw a nice ball then why does he have multiple probowls, why does he have the highest compl. % of QB with 100 starts?? Why was he able to throw for almost 5000 yards in a season, a season mostly without Moss, Why was he able to throw for 39 TD's and only 11 int's? Brady has the SB's but Brady's numbers don't even compare to Daunte's numbers, but then again Daunte never played in NE and BB!!

[patmoran2006]

Well lets look to the future, since the past is in the past. If you could go into 07 with two wins against the Dolphins in 06 or a top 5 defense, which would you choose? If you could have Ricky and Ronnie or McGehee and Thomas who would you chose? If you could have the 20th ranked O or the 27th ranked O which would you choose?? You can have your 2 wins, I'll take the top 5 D and 20th ranked O and Ricky and Ronnie over your two wins. It's not like the Bills won the games because they were the better team. If that were true, then Miami must be better then NE, Chicago and KC!!....Or is this just some back country, dumber then a box of rocks logic Bill fans use to judge their team??? Seriously, quit the stupidity.


BTW, since you like to live in the past...can we talk about 4 consecutive loses in four SB's for the Bills and two SB wins in three consecutive SB's for the fins?? I'm willing to bet you Bill fans don't want to talk about that history, but when you win, it's a whole different story.
As far as that defense goes, how much longer do you think Taylor and Zack Thomas are going to play and/or be at that level. >They are getting old.

[Dr. Lecter]

Well lets look to the future, since the past is in the past. If you could go into 07 with two wins against the Dolphins in 06 or a top 5 defense, which would you choose? If you could have Ricky and Ronnie or McGehee and Thomas who would you chose? If you could have the 20th ranked O or the 27th ranked O which would you choose?? You can have your 2 wins, I'll take the top 5 D and 20th ranked O and Ricky and Ronnie over your two wins. It's not like the Bills won the games because they were the better team. If that were true, then Miami must be better then NE, Chicago and KC!!....Or is this just some back country, dumber then a box of rocks logic Bill fans use to judge their team??? Seriously, quit the stupidity.


BTW, since you like to live in the past...can we talk about 4 consecutive loses in four SB's for the Bills and two SB wins in three consecutive SB's for the fins?? I'm willing to bet you Bill fans don't want to talk about that history, but when you win, it's a whole different story.

lol!

In the years the Bills were losing Super Bowls, Captain Isotoner and crew were getting spankings in Orchard Park.

As for who has the better future, time will tell. I will say that some of the Fishie defenders are getting a little old.

As for the RB issue, do you really think it is 100% Ricky will be there? How many times does he have to let you down?

And finally asking us to quit the stupidity is like Louie Anderson asking somebody to quit eating so much. Or Brittney Spears asking somebody to quit making a public spectacle of one's self.

But have fun with your stats and numbers. Have fun scoring 6 points agains the Bills in TWO games.

And have fun with Easter Bunny in a month.

[Bill Cody]

Is Miami better then Chicago, NE and KC?? Miami beat them.


What has Randy done with Daunte?? Are all Bill really this dumb?? If all Daunte could do is run and throw a nice ball then why does he have multiple probowls, why does he have the highest compl. % of QB with 100 starts?? Why was he able to throw for almost 5000 yards in a season, a season mostly without Moss, Why was he able to throw for 39 TD's and only 11 int's? Brady has the SB's but Brady's numbers don't even compare to Daunte's numbers, but then again Daunte never played in NE and BB!!

That is some funny stuff there. Daunte never has, nor will he ever, go to a Pro Bowl without Moss. Without Moss Daunte is just wasted cap space. Which season did he put up #'s without Moss? The year Randy missed three games and still had 13 TD's? Daunte's a choker and a loser and to even bring up a comparison with Brady is LOL. A better comparison is with Joey Harrington who actually performed better than Daunte last year. Blame it on the injury if you like but the reality is Daunte just bites. He and Mike Vick are 1a and 1b most overrated players in the NFL.

[feelthepain]

lol!

In the years the Bills were losing Super Bowls, Captain Isotoner and crew were getting spankings in Orchard Park.

As for who has the better future, time will tell. I will say that some of the Fishie defenders are getting a little old.

As for the RB issue, do you really think it is 100% Ricky will be there? How many times does he have to let you down?

And finally asking us to quit the stupidity is like Louie Anderson asking somebody to quit eating so much. Or Brittney Spears asking somebody to quit making a public spectacle of one's self.

But have fun with your stats and numbers. Have fun scoring 6 points agains the Bills in TWO games.

And have fun with Easter Bunny in a month.

You're right, we will see.

[feelthepain]

As far as that defense goes, how much longer do you think Taylor and Zack Thomas are going to play and/or be at that level. >They are getting old.

Wasn't that the same knock on Miami last year, and the year before that and the year before that?? It would seem to me if you're gonna make that statement you should do a little research to see that Miami is younger then you think.

Roth, Crowder, Daniels, M.Wright, R.Wright, W.Allen, J.Allen, Evans, Hill, Pope, Vickerson, Tillman, Goodman, Bell.

Most on that list have less then 4 seasons and are very young and most of them had significant playing time last year. Miami isn't as old as advertised.

[feelthepain]

That is some funny stuff there. Daunte never has, nor will he ever, go to a Pro Bowl without Moss. Without Moss Daunte is just wasted cap space. Which season did he put up #'s without Moss? The year Randy missed three games and still had 13 TD's? Daunte's a choker and a loser and to even bring up a comparison with Brady is LOL. A better comparison is with Joey Harrington who actually performed better than Daunte last year. Blame it on the injury if you like but the reality is Daunte just bites. He and Mike Vick are 1a and 1b most overrated players in the NFL.

You know nothing about football.

[Bill Cody]

You know nothing about football.

And you're the joke of this board.

[feelthepain]

And you're the joke of this board.


Like I care, it's not like you know a damn thing about the game of football.

[finsrclowns]

Like I care, it's not like you know a damn thing about the game of football.

The truth hurts don't it?

[YardRat]

C'mon ftp... a little reality check here. The only 'history' that really means anything is the most recent. A better overall record and a season sweep...'Nuff said.

Anything else is ancient history or speculation on a future that is yet to be determined.

[jamze132]

Is Miami better then Chicago, NE and KC?? Miami beat them.


What has Randy done with Daunte?? Are all Bill really this dumb?? If all Daunte could do is run and throw a nice ball then why does he have multiple probowls, why does he have the highest compl. % of QB with 100 starts?? Why was he able to throw for almost 5000 yards in a season, a season mostly without Moss, Why was he able to throw for 39 TD's and only 11 int's? Brady has the SB's but Brady's numbers don't even compare to Daunte's numbers, but then again Daunte never played in NE and BB!!
Stop living in fantasy land! So what, the Dolphins beat those teams you mentioned. And? Why couldn't you find a way to beat the Bills?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

For ****s sake, get your head out of your ****ing ass! Until you beat us, we are the better team. Take all of your little stats about how good your offense and defense are and how much you love Ricky ****ing Williams! Are you serious? The guy couldn't make it an entire season in ****ing Canada? WTF?

[jamze132]

I simply stated the Dolphins are better, stop crying about it.
And I simply stated that the Bills are better, so get over it and admit it.

[jamze132]

I deal with it fine, the fins are better no matter what you think. "Daunte Blows"??? That's stupidity at it's finest, typical from a Bill fan.
Daunte does blow. Wasn't he sacked like 6 times last year by Buffalo in the first of your two losses to us? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't fully recovered... blah! And he won't be this year either. You are stuck with Cleo and Joey.

[jamze132]

Well lets look to the future, since the past is in the past. If you could go into 07 with two wins against the Dolphins in 06 or a top 5 defense, which would you choose? If you could have Ricky and Ronnie or McGehee and Thomas who would you chose? If you could have the 20th ranked O or the 27th ranked O which would you choose?? You can have your 2 wins, I'll take the top 5 D and 20th ranked O and Ricky and Ronnie over your two wins. It's not like the Bills won the games because they were the better team. If that were true, then Miami must be better then NE, Chicago and KC!!....Or is this just some back country, dumber then a box of rocks logic Bill fans use to judge their team??? Seriously, quit the stupidity.


BTW, since you like to live in the past...can we talk about 4 consecutive loses in four SB's for the Bills and two SB wins in three consecutive SB's for the fins?? I'm willing to bet you Bill fans don't want to talk about that history, but when you win, it's a whole different story.
One again, are you ****ing serious? Ricky and Ronnie? McGahee and Thomas? I think it's obvious that they all pretty much suck. But I would rather go with the Bills duo since at least we know that our two guys can actually play in the NFL. Ronnie is ok, but he is nothing to write home to mommy about.

[jamze132]

You're right, we will see.
That is correct, and when the Dolphins get smoked by the Bills again next season, you will submit to all.