Could somebody please......

[Dr. Lecter]

List the teams in the Free Agency era that have bought a Super Bowl by heavily pursuing high priced FA's from other teams?

How many teams in the free agency era have won Super Bowls based on the draft and players they cultivated?

[BillsNick]

Good point :up:

[patmoran2006]

how many GMs have ****ed up their rosters worse than the Buffalo Bills by consistently passing over year-by-year linemen in favor of skill positions?

YOu cant win a championship in this league being weak in the trenches, and due mainly to DOnahoe the Bills are awful weak there. It takes at least 3-4 years minimum to build a winning team through the draft, especially when you lack quality big guys, and that's exactly where the Bills are.

So if the Bills want to accelerate their chances of making a Super Bowl run, they need to go out and spend the money on 3 or so big guys (both sides combined) that can come in here from day one and make the units a lot stronger.

I dont think its a far reach that 2-3 more consecutive mediocre non-playoff seasons in Buffalo is going to do drastic things to attendance, which in turn could even drive this team out of Buffalo.

To answer your question, the last team off the top of my head I can remember that basically "bought" (in your words) a Super Bowl was the Ravens about 6 years ago.

[Dr. Lecter]

how many GMs have ****ed up their rosters worse than the Buffalo Bills by consistently passing over year-by-year linemen in favor of skill positions?

YOu cant win a championship in this league being weak in the trenches, and due mainly to DOnahoe the Bills are awful weak there. It takes at least 3-4 years minimum to build a winning team through the draft, especially when you lack quality big guys, and that's exactly where the Bills are.

So if the Bills want to accelerate their chances of making a Super Bowl run, they need to go out and spend the money on 3 or so big guys (both sides combined) that can come in here from day one and make the units a lot stronger.


On most of this we agree (finally!). As I (and others like EB) have pointed the Bills spent 3 first day picks on the O-line in the past ten years. That is the basis of their problems today.

Where we disagree is on the fix. The O-line was much improved last year and needs some inside work. The Colts guys are quite possibly good enough and will not be overly expensive.

The DL, needs one or two guys. And that can be addressed in the draft and one FA guy.

I don't think it will take another 2-3 years.

[OpIv37]

List the teams in the Free Agency era that have bought a Super Bowl by heavily pursuing high priced FA's from other teams?

How many teams in the free agency era have won Super Bowls based on the draft and players they cultivated?

there is a happy medium between attempting to buy a SB and doing nothing because of some insane "cash to cap" philosophy.

The fact is this team is improving but still has some serious holes. You can wait a year or two or three to fill those holes in the draft and wait for the players you draft to develop, but you will inevitably lose a few players to age, FA and maybe injury over that time span.

Or, you can pick up a few key FA's to fill those holes NOW and try to win some football games.

Even the vaunted Patriots had to pick up some FA's to fill out their roster (Dillon and Colvin come to mind). You can't buy a SB but you can't do it by draft alone either.

[Dr. Lecter]

Marv never said they were doing nothing this offseason in terms of free agency.

[patmoran2006]

And to further answer your question, Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl in 2002 with a roster LARGELY built on FA.

Their QB (Brad Johnson) was a FA as was their top two WR's (Keyshawn Johnson and Joe Jerevicius). Simeon Rice was a key peice to the defense, and he came to Tampa Bay 2 years prior via FA after being drafed orginially by Arizona. Most interestingly (and just like the Bills should be doing) their OL was built PRIMARILY with FA. Jeff Christy and Lomas Brown were FA acquistions. So as you can see this team had a ton of players not drafted by the organization.

As for Baltimore in 2000, they also had a lot of non-draftees that played huge roles in their Super Bowl win. Their starting QB came via FA (Trent Dilfer) as was their best receiver (Shannon Sharpe). Their nasty defense had three big free agent contributors in Sam Adams, Tony Siragusa and Rod Woodson.

So I hope these facts (not opinions) will go a way towards you making yet another excuse that the Bills can only win the Super Bowl by "building" through the draft. For the best teams, it is and should be a balance of both.
INdy and NE have also won Super Bowls during that span, but its a little easier to build around a team when Manning or Brady are your QB. PIttsburgh was also built mainly through the draft, the one could argue the heart and soul of that team (Betis) came via FA.

I think the moves you make should depend on a couple of things
A) What kind of salary cap shape are you in?
B) Where are your biggest weaknesses? If they are with skill positions (RB, WR, Secondary, LB) then usually you can draft guys who are talented enough to come in and make a difference right away (Whitner, Simpson, etc). If the weakness of your team is in the trenches, then if you build mainly by draft your generally waiting a couple of years for the guys to develop into good NFL players.

The Bills biggest weakness is in the trenches, they have plenty of cap room. If Wilson is willing to spend the money in FA, they can get a lot better in one offseason. If they are going to build the trenches mainly through the draft, then odds say you're looking at least 2-3 years.

[Mr. Pink]

I've already answered this question ad naseaum about the past five superbowl winners and runner ups and their KEY FA signings and trades that got them there.

Quickly though.
NE-Dillon and Harrison
Indy-McFarland
Chi-Ogunleye, Jones, Muhammad
Phi-T.O.
Bucs-Rice, Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Keyshawn
Raiders-Gannon, Rice
Rams-Warner, Aeneas Williams
Ravens-Dilfer, Woodson, Adams

All of this players were not drafted by their teams, and all contributed heavily to their sucess in their championship wins or losses.

[Dr. Lecter]

So I hope these facts (not opinions) will go a way towards you making yet another excuse that the Bills can only win the Super Bowl by "building" through the draft. For the best teams, it is and should be a balance of both.
INdy and NE have also won Super Bowls during that span, but its a little easier to build around a team when Manning or Brady are your QB. PIttsburgh was also built mainly through the draft, the one could argue the heart and soul of that team (Betis) came via FA.



You really should stop twisting what I am saying.

My point of this was that the Bills CAN build a good and competitive team by singing a few key FA's (not necessarily the biggest names either) and drafting well.

[RockStar36]

I've already answered this question ad naseaum about the past five superbowl winners and runner ups and their KEY FA signings and trades that got them there.

Quickly though.
NE-Dillon and Harrison
Indy-McFarland
Chi-Ogunleye, Jones, Muhammad
Phi-T.O.
Bucs-Rice, Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Keyshawn
Raiders-Gannon, Rice
Rams-Warner, Aeneas Williams
Ravens-Dilfer, Woodson, Adams

All of this players were not drafted by their teams, and all contributed heavily to their sucess in their championship wins or losses.

The question was which Super Bowl teams have won primarily by buying several high priced free agents. One FA here and there isn't going nuts in FA which is what most want the Bills to do. If anything, you just backed up what the Bills want to do. Pick up one or two key free agents and then build with what they already have.

Also, I don't consider trades to be part of this discussion.

And another note. Warner was not a big FA acquisition at all. I don't even know how he could be on that list.

[OpIv37]

Marv never said they were doing nothing this offseason in terms of free agency.

not per se- what he did say is that we are doing something that puts us at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to attracting FA's. Maybe I exaggerated by saying "doing nothing" but it's not an exaggeration at all to say we won't be as effective as we can be.

[patmoran2006]

At the end of the day, its really a simple formula..
If they go out and sign a top guard AND either bring back Gandy or sign another decent guard.. If they sign a QUALITY LB and they do at least one other thing to improve their front four, they could very well contend.

If they think its going to happen (all this) through the draft, you can forget about contending, at least for 2007, which is pretty sad considering its ****ing february.

[Devin]

Honestly we dont need to buy anything.

If Marv signs 1 legit guy. JUST 1. Not a 2nd stringer, not a guy who was a former 1st but sucked for half a decade and nows hes getting a 2nd chance, not a guy who only played 6 games last year but of those 6 he played 3 really well.

1 legit guy. Thats it. Thats all. This offseason will be a successful one. And with 35 million he has more then enough cash to toss around.

We do that and have a decent draft and we are in good shape, or at least headed that way.

[patmoran2006]

If the guy is Cato June, Adalius Thomas or Steinbach, then maybe yes.

[Devin]

Id take June off that list.

Adalius Thomas in heart beat, Steinbach or Dielman would be fine as well.

[Jan Reimers]

I know this much. Five of the last six Super Bowls have been won by the Pats, Steelers and Colts, with most of their key players being draftees. I know someone will point out Dillon and Harrison, but I am saying that MOST of the key guys were draft picks.

[Mr. Pink]

The question was which Super Bowl teams have won primarily by buying several high priced free agents. One FA here and there isn't going nuts in FA which is what most want the Bills to do. If anything, you just backed up what the Bills want to do. Pick up one or two key free agents and then build with what they already have.

Also, I don't consider trades to be part of this discussion.

And another note. Warner was not a big FA acquisition at all. I don't even know how he could be on that list.

I was just putting KEY performers on each superbowl champion and how they were acquired. You don't win SBs without acquiring a KEY and TOP talent via FA or Trade. Something that we here in Buffalo apparently don't and won't do under the CTC strategy.

[RockStar36]

We'll see. FA hasn't started. Who knows how the CTC strategy will even work until we see it in action.

[Mr. Pink]

We'll see. FA hasn't started. Who knows how the CTC strategy will even work until we see it in action.


It's obvious how it'll work. You can't sign any HIGH PRICED free agents.
Anyone with a big signing bonus is gonna eat up our cap space by himself. So we either sign 1 top name FA or a bunch of second class citizens.

How hard is that to see or figure out?

[RockStar36]

It isn't hard to see or figure out. In fact I said a few days ago that CTC means they are being somewhat cheap and not trying to screw up the future of the franchise financially. But I'm in the minority of people who are willing to wait and find out for sure instead of repeating the same Ralph is cheap crap over and over again.

[Jan Reimers]

Signing big name, expensive veterans is at least as much of a crap shoot as the draft. Ask the Redskins.

And BTW, how did Drew Bledsoe, London Fletcher, Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent, et. al., work out for us?

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign a couple of quality FAs. But we should be DAMNED sure of what we're getting, and we shouldn't bank on them getting us anywhere near the SB.

[Billsrock4life]

how many GMs have ****ed up their rosters worse than the Buffalo Bills by consistently passing over year-by-year linemen in favor of skill positions?

YOu cant win a championship in this league being weak in the trenches, and due mainly to DOnahoe the Bills are awful weak there. It takes at least 3-4 years minimum to build a winning team through the draft, especially when you lack quality big guys, and that's exactly where the Bills are.

So if the Bills want to accelerate their chances of making a Super Bowl run, they need to go out and spend the money on 3 or so big guys (both sides combined) that can come in here from day one and make the units a lot stronger.

I dont think its a far reach that 2-3 more consecutive mediocre non-playoff seasons in Buffalo is going to do drastic things to attendance, which in turn could even drive this team out of Buffalo.

To answer your question, the last team off the top of my head I can remember that basically "bought" (in your words) a Super Bowl was the Ravens about 6 years ago.

you cant win a superbowl in any league of football without having a good OL....

[Mahdi]

I've already answered this question ad naseaum about the past five superbowl winners and runner ups and their KEY FA signings and trades that got them there.

Quickly though.
NE-Dillon and Harrison
Indy-McFarland
Chi-Ogunleye, Jones, Muhammad
Phi-T.O.
Bucs-Rice, Brad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Keyshawn
Raiders-Gannon, Rice
Rams-Warner, Aeneas Williams
Ravens-Dilfer, Woodson, Adams

All of this players were not drafted by their teams, and all contributed heavily to their sucess in their championship wins or losses.
yeah sure, yer talking 2-4 players per team, thats fine, but mass FA spending like Washington is not the way to go either and thats what people are saying. And as youve pointed out these superbowl teams picked up 2-4 key guys in FA over the span of couple of years and eventually made it to the championship game or superbowl, Marv also said the Bills are targetting 2-4 players in FA. So I think were on the right track.

[jamze132]

There is nothing wrong with going out and buying a piece of the puzzle. You onyy have 7 draft picks a year and the majority are busts. I don't believe that the Bills NEED to go out and get the best RG, DE, CB, and LB just to be successful. Getting just one, especially on the O-line would do wonders for our team. It should keep the offense on the field longer while keeping our defense off the field, where most teams don't score.