Cap Question

[jimmifli]

Does every dollar spent on players eventually count towards the cap?

Aside from the veteran minimum thing.

[clumping platelets]

Re: Cap Question

No..........player benefits and some per diems do not count

[jimmifli]

Re: Cap Question

No..........player benefits and some per diems do not count

But all signing bonuses, roster bonuses, performance bonuses salary etc ...

will count eventually?

[clumping platelets]

Re: Cap Question

No....some bonuses are deemed NLTBE (Not Likely to be earned)....they do not count on the cap whereas LTBE (Likely to be earned) do count. HOWEVER, this is where is gets clear as mud....a player may not end up earning the LTBE, this yields a credit on the following years cap. Earning a NLTBE yields a debit on the following year. This is the world of "cap adjustments" and gets even murkier

[Bert102176]

Re: Cap Question

yeah the salery cap is a head ache thang god for Clump

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Cap Question

But all signing bonuses, roster bonuses, performance bonuses salary etc ...

will count eventually?

If paid. Any money paid to the players counts. If the money is paid, it is accounted for. The only future monies that must be accounted for are guaranteed portions that are in the future, because they are considered already paid.

Fringe benefits are accounted for BTW. The cap is calculated by taking projected revenue and applying the percentage agreed upon for the players share to get the amount of the players share. The players projected league-wide benefits are substracted from that amount to get the amount available for salaries.

The players percentage of revenues is:

- 57% in 2007
- 57.5% in 2008 and 2009
- 58% in 2010 and 2011

If the projections see a shortfall in 2006 or 2007 then the 2008 and 2009 caps will be adjusted.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the question, but anything paid to a player has to count towards the salary cap. This includes money, property, investments, loans or compensation for non-football-related services. That is defined in the CBA.

In the offseason there are different accounting rules (the Rule of 51) that limits the number of players salaries that count toward the cap, because rosters are expanded. However, all non-salary (bonus) payments count and all players must be accounted for once the season starts. Also, players who have been tendered (franchise, transition, restricted, etc.) count toward the cap. Rookies receive a minimum-salary tender when drafted until their contract is signed.

[YardRat]

Re: Cap Question

CBA Amended 2006

Good bookmark for those who actually want to read the thing.

[jimmifli]

Re: Cap Question

If that's the case, then this cash to cap debate is stupid.

As long as we spend to the cap we will spend the same as everyone else. It's a closed system. All money will be accounted for.

[YardRat]

Re: Cap Question

If that's the case, then this cash to cap debate is stupid.

As long as we spend to the cap we will spend the same as everyone else. It's a closed system. All money will be accounted for.

Actually that's not necessarily true. It's when it's accounted for that differentiates the philosophies...similar to the difference between paying for something with cash versus a loan.

[Dozerdog]

Re: Cap Question

If that's the case, then this cash to cap debate is stupid.

As long as we spend to the cap we will spend the same as everyone else. It's a closed system. All money will be accounted for.

Bingo



That's where the "reactionaries" go nuts claiming Wilson is "Cheap" or "greedy"


The Bills have chosen to not spend up front guaranteed cash - which gives them a more stable enviroment on their roster. It prevents cycles of "binging and purging" that other clubs endure

[jimmifli]

Re: Cap Question

Actually that's not necessarily true. It's when it's accounted for that differentiates the philosophies...similar to the difference between paying for something with cash versus a loan.

If we take a long term period, say ten years, we will spend almost the same money as Dan Snyder. The only difference will be the big money he gave out in the last year.

[YardRat]

Re: Cap Question

If we take a long term period, say ten years, we will spend almost the same money as Dan Snyder. The only difference will be the big money he gave out in the last year.

Take a 10 year period, start with a 100mil salary cap and increase it 10mil each subsequent year until year ten = 190mil. Assume Wilson goes cash to the cap each year, and Snyder hands out 60mil in signing bonuses each and every year. That's 10mil per year over a six-year period, compounded, for accounting purposes.

Year 1-Ralph spends 100mil, year two Ralph spends 110mil = 210mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

Year 1-Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil bonus amoritization to meet 100mil cap), year two Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil signing bonus amoritization for current year plus 10mil sba for first year to meet 110mil cap) = 300mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

For the first six years Snyder is 'stuck' at 90 mil cash and the cumulative totals of sba to meet the cap, but is still able to hand out 60mil in real cash as sb's. After six years the sba's starting coming off the total, and the cash he's able to spend exclusive of sba's increases 10mil per year (as new sba replaces old sba instead of continually accruing), or equal to the increase Ralph is paying staying with cash to cap philosophy. Plus he's still able to hand out 60mil/year in sb's.

Extended out over 10 years, the totals I've come up with over that period are Ralph = 1.29 billion, Snyder 1.6 billion, or a difference of 310 million or 25%.

25% is pretty significant to me.

[Dozerdog]

Re: Cap Question

Take a 10 year period, start with a 100mil salary cap and increase it 10mil each subsequent year until year ten = 190mil. Assume Wilson goes cash to the cap each year, and Snyder hands out 60mil in signing bonuses each and every year. That's 10mil per year over a six-year period, compounded, for accounting purposes.

Year 1-Ralph spends 100mil, year two Ralph spends 110mil = 210mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

Year 1-Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil bonus amoritization to meet 100mil cap), year two Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil signing bonus amoritization for current year plus 10mil sba for first year to meet 110mil cap) = 300mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

For the first six years Snyder is 'stuck' at 90 mil cash and the cumulative totals of sba to meet the cap, but is still able to hand out 60mil in real cash as sb's. After six years the sba's starting coming off the total, and the cash he's able to spend exclusive of sba's increases 10mil per year (as new sba replaces old sba instead of continually accruing), or equal to the increase Ralph is paying staying with cash to cap philosophy. Plus he's still able to hand out 60mil/year in sb's.

Extended out over 10 years, the totals I've come up with over that period are Ralph = 1.29 billion, Snyder 1.6 billion, or a difference of 310 million or 25%.

25% is pretty significant to me.

Your math is flawed


Snyder can hand out larger amounts of money up front- but in the future that cash has to be accounted for- It eats up future cap space.

Snyder is spending tomorrow's cap space today. The Redskins will pick a season to purge everyoe on the roster and start again


Snyder's only advantage is that he has the $$$ to toss 5 million at head coaches and 2 million for assistants-

[jimmifli]

Re: Cap Question

Take a 10 year period, start with a 100mil salary cap and increase it 10mil each subsequent year until year ten = 190mil. Assume Wilson goes cash to the cap each year, and Snyder hands out 60mil in signing bonuses each and every year. That's 10mil per year over a six-year period, compounded, for accounting purposes.

Year 1-Ralph spends 100mil, year two Ralph spends 110mil = 210mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

Year 1-Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil bonus amoritization to meet 100mil cap), year two Snyder spends 150mil (90mil cash, 10mil signing bonus amoritization for current year plus 10mil sba for first year to meet 110mil cap) = 300mil (and so on for the remaining ten-year period)

For the first six years Snyder is 'stuck' at 90 mil cash and the cumulative totals of sba to meet the cap, but is still able to hand out 60mil in real cash as sb's. After six years the sba's starting coming off the total, and the cash he's able to spend exclusive of sba's increases 10mil per year (as new sba replaces old sba instead of continually accruing), or equal to the increase Ralph is paying staying with cash to cap philosophy. Plus he's still able to hand out 60mil/year in sb's.

Extended out over 10 years, the totals I've come up with over that period are Ralph = 1.29 billion, Snyder 1.6 billion, or a difference of 310 million or 25%.

25% is pretty significant to me.

But it's a closed system. Every dollar he spends must count eventually.

[YardRat]

Re: Cap Question

Your math is flawed


Snyder can hand out larger amounts of money up front- but in the future that cash has to be accounted for- It eats up future cap space.

Snyder is spending tomorrow's cap space today. The Redskins will pick a season to purge everyoe on the roster and start again


Snyder's only advantage is that he has the $$$ to toss 5 million at head coaches and 2 million for assistants-

Year 1- Ralph 100mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)(90mil + 10mil sb for cap)
Year 2- Ralph 110mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)( 90mil + 20mil sb for cap)
Year 3-Ralph 120mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)(90mil + 30mil sb for cap)
Year 4-Ralph 130mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)(90mil + 40mil sb for cap)
Year 5-Ralph 140mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)(90mil + 50mil sb for cap)
Year 6-Ralph 150mil/Snyder 150mil (90mil + 60mil sb)(90mil + 60mil sb for cap)

*Note-at this point the sb's from year one start dropping off the cap #, as they've been fully accounted for. As Snyder continues to give out 60mil per year, though, the 'old' 10mil is simply replaced by the 'new' 10 mil and the cap space eaten up by amoritized signing bonuses stabilizes at 60mil*

Year 7-Ralph 160mil/Snyder 160mil (100mil + 60mil sb)(100mil + 60mil sb for cap)
Year 8-Ralph 170mil/Snyder 170mil (110mil + 60mil sb)(110mil + 60mil sb for cap)
Year 9-Ralph 180mil/Snyder 180mil (120mil + 60mil sb)(120mil + 60mil sb for cap)
Year 10-Ralph 190mil/Snyder 190mil (130mil +60mil sb)(130mil + 60mil sb for cap)

Actually, I did make an error in Ralph's numbers...It should total 1.45bil, not 1.29.

I still come up with 1.45bil for Ralph, 1.6bil for Snyder, a difference of 150mil, which is still significant.

Under this specific scenario, I don't see any other flaws in the math.