You do realize that Dockery got a better deal than Steinbach?

[HHURRICANE]

For all of us saying that we would never go out and sign a Steinbach, well we could have and saved 1.5 million doing it.

Clements: 22 million guaranteed
Dockery: 18.5 million guaranteed
Steinbach: 17 million guaranteed

Is Dockery better than Dielman and Steinbach? I'm asking a legit question because I don't know.

I'm not *****ing either because Marv addressed a problem that has kept us out of the playoffs for 7 years. The Jets had no RB and a QB with worst stats than ours but they were ranked high on offense and made it to the playoffs.

For those who subscribe to Defense winning championships, we were never better than 9-7 with the 2nd ranked D.

Everyone should be happy no matter what. I just want to know your thoughts on why Dockery instead of Steinbach?

[Michael82]

I think the coaching staff had both of them on their radar, but wanted more of a mauler type and a huge guy who could block for JP and make big holes for the running game up the middle.

[Mitchy moo]

Dockery's team rushed for like 400 more yards with a weaker RB, I'll credit the line for that.

[Michael82]

Dockery's team rushed for like 400 more yards with a weaker RB, I'll credit the line for that.
EXACTLY! :bf1:

[patmoran2006]

Im happy with Dockery.

I think Steinbach WANTED to be in Cleveland, I dont think he comes to Buffalo for the same money

[patmoran2006]

Dockery's team rushed for like 400 more yards with a weaker RB, I'll credit the line for that.
and the Bengals threw for about 10 million more yards because they had a real QB.. whats your point?

I like Dockery, but dont make him out to be better than STeinbach, thats stupid

[JJamezz]

I think Dockery may be a better fit here - though I don't know that he's as good as Steinbach..

Steinbach (or Dielman for that matter) wasn't coming here anyway, he was always headed to Cleveland, so its a bit of a moot point..

As for Dockery, I applaud Marv and Co., they had the guy in their crosshairs, got him up to Buffalo as his FIRST visit to any team (which was KEY), and got him signed before he left - if they paid a little more than the guy's 'value', then so be it - the important thing is he's a Buffalo Bill now, and will help anchor the oline for a LONG time.

[Michael82]

I think Dockery may be a better fit here - though I don't know that he's as good as Steinbach..

Steinbach (or Dielman for that matter) wasn't coming here anyway, he was always headed to Cleveland, so its a bit of a moot point..

As for Dockery, I applaud Marv and Co., they had the guy in their crosshairs, got him up to Buffalo as his FIRST visit to any team (which was KEY), and got him signed before he left - if they paid a little more than the guy's 'value', then so be it - the important thing is he's a Buffalo Bill now, and will help anchor the oline for a LONG time.
Excellent post, man! :bf1:

[X-Era]

For all of us saying that we would never go out and sign a Steinbach, well we could have and saved 1.5 million doing it.

Clements: 22 million guaranteed
Dockery: 18.5 million guaranteed
Steinbach: 17 million guaranteed

Is Dockery better than Dielman and Steinbach? I'm asking a legit question because I don't know.

I'm not *****ing either because Marv addressed a problem that has kept us out of the playoffs for 7 years. The Jets had no RB and a QB with worst stats than ours but they were ranked high on offense and made it to the playoffs.

For those who subscribe to Defense winning championships, we were never better than 9-7 with the 2nd ranked D.

Everyone should be happy no matter what. I just want to know your thoughts on why Dockery instead of Steinbach?
Oui, Im about to scan this board for free agents only and not open any more of these perpetual contract threads.

Dockery got paid, he got big money, the Bills think hes worth it, weve *****ed about the o-line for years and now we addressed, Im not paying for his contract, Im excited about what we did.

Thats the sum of it, lets move onto whats next.

[The Spaz]

Can't some just be happy sheeshhh....

[justasportsfan]

I don't care. WE all complained about how TD ignored the OL, I'm not gonna complain now that Marv is paying up the yinyang to make sure JP succeeds.

We just have to upgrade the rb and fb positions and i think the sky's the limit for this O. IMO, TE is not much of a concern. Now royals and Cieslak won't have to worry much about blocking. They can concentrate on catching the balls.

Maybe we already have our no. 2 wr. Maybe Fairchild's limiting the playbook is what prevented one from stepping up :idunno:

[gil]

and the Bengals threw for about 10 million more yards because they had a real QB.. whats your point?

I like Dockery, but dont make him out to be better than STeinbach, thats stupid

I'm really curious here as to how you can say that anyone suggesting Dockery might be better than Steinbach is "stupid" - have you broken down game film of both of them?

I honestly don't know because LG is not usually a position I pay any attention to on other teams - I know the conventional wisdom is that Steinbach is better, but where do you get that from?

[Canadian'eh!]

I don't know.

We probably overpaid a bit. For whatever reason, Marv and the boys decided on Dockery over Stenbach or Deilman. Whether it was because of what they saw, or That the other 2 didnt' want to come here, who knows. Clearly it wasn't about money because we gave Dockery more.

but the bottom line is that it's such a huge upgrade for us no matter what, that we shouldn't be too upset if we overpaid by a million or so, or got the SIGHTLY lesser player. All we need to worry about is Dockery >>>> Gandy.

[!Papacrunk!]

On a side note, Dielman isn't leaving Seatle. On another side note, just think what is going through these guy's mind--"you're paying me how much to play a game I love enough to play for free???"

[!Papacrunk!]

I'm not gonna complain now that Marv is paying up the yinyang to make sure JP succeeds.

So even though it's way early, IN THEORY, JP should have no excuse to make leaps and bounds and possibly be a Pro Bowler next year, especially with the huge gains he made last year with a sub-average line, correct? Forgive the hyperbole, but this is a message board :)

[justasportsfan]

So even though it's way early, IN THEORY, JP should have no excuse to make leaps and bounds and possibly be a Pro Bowler next year, especially with the huge gains he made last year with a sub-average line, correct? Forgive the hyperbole, but this is a message board :)


can't say. Anything can happen . I can only hope. We're still missing a rb and a bonafide no. 2. But at least Marv is doing his best to make sure he succeeeds unlike Donohoe who grabs scrubs like Bennie and hoping JP lives to see another day. You know what it's like since you're a finfan.

At least Marv is doing the opposite of what Saban did with your O by hiring both Malarkey and Bennie and then expecting Culp to succeed.

[TigerJ]

Dockery signed for seven years. Is that the same length deal Steinbach signed?

[HHURRICANE]

My thread has absolutely no cyncism. Geez. Read before you start shooting out BS.

Dockery got more guaranteed money. PERIOD. Maybe we never had any shot at Dielman or Steinbach. I was just pointing out that alot of us didn't think we would pony up for either Dielman or Steinbach and we paid more for Dockery.

I'm as happy as anybody here. Take the homer glasses off for a minute. It was a legit question. Is Dockery a better player? Maybe. I just don't spend all season grading OGs. Just wanted a little insight. Geez.

[!Papacrunk!]

can't say. Anything can happen . I can only hope. We're still missing a rb and a bonafide no. 2. But at least Marv is doing his best to make sure he succeeeds unlike Donohoe who grabs scrubs like Bennie and hoping JP lives to see another day. You know what it's like since you're a finfan.

At least Marv is doing the opposite of what Saban did with your O by hiring both Malarkey and Bennie and then expecting Culp to succeed.

I WAS a big fan of Saban, but now in hindsight, hiring Mularkey signing Bennie Anderson sure tarnishes his image , among other things. At least Cameron/Mueller have relegated Mularkey to potentially be the TE coach (watch out McMichael,) and also had to make some cuts to further clean the past some years mess (even though I wish we could've kept Carter and David Bowens.)

[Mudflap1]

All I know is Peters/Dockery/Fowler/Walker/Pennington (incumbents with another year under their belt, along with guys like Butler, Whittle, Preston, and Merz as the depth) sounds a heck of a lot better to me than Peters/Gandy/Fowler/Villarial/Pennington, or even Gandy/Reyes/Fowler/Villarial/Peters (as it started out last year).

Jon

[justasportsfan]

I WAS a big fan of Saban, but now in hindsight, hiring Mularkey signing Bennie Anderson sure tarnishes his image , among other things. At least Cameron/Mueller have relegated Mularkey to potentially be the TE coach (watch out McMichael,) and also had to make some cuts to further clean the past some years mess (even though I wish we could've kept Carter and David Bowens.)
I too liked Sabans D. I started to doubt his ability on the offensive side of the ball when he hired MM.

Saban turned out to be the worst signing in NFL's history. He screwed the fins big time.

It should be intersting to see what Cameron can do without the OL , qb, TE (he had at SD) and especially Tomlinson in his line up. If Mueller is as good as AJ Smith, maybe the fins can get back on track ASAP.

[patmoran2006]

I'm really curious here as to how you can say that anyone suggesting Dockery might be better than Steinbach is "stupid" - have you broken down game film of both of them?

I honestly don't know because LG is not usually a position I pay any attention to on other teams - I know the conventional wisdom is that Steinbach is better, but where do you get that from?

1- IM not dissing Dockery, he was THE guy I have wanted for weeks. I am estatic we signed him, I LOVE that deal and I think he's worth the money.

2- EVERY SINGLE columnist or site i have seen had Steinbach ranked #1.. As much as Bills fans want to think it; they cant ALL be wrong.

Dockery is a GREAT player, i cant remember the last time we had a guard wtih this much talent; but to have comments in threads that he's better than STeinbach now because he's a Bill, is idiotic.

[ddaryl]

My thread has absolutely no cyncism. Geez. Read before you start shooting out BS.

Dockery got more guaranteed money. PERIOD. Maybe we never had any shot at Dielman or Steinbach. I was just pointing out that alot of us didn't think we would pony up for either Dielman or Steinbach and we paid more for Dockery.

I'm as happy as anybody here. Take the homer glasses off for a minute. It was a legit question. Is Dockery a better player? Maybe. I just don't spend all season grading OGs. Just wanted a little insight. Geez.


1st what does Steinbach have in esculator clauses and future roster bonuses etc... compared to what we gave Dockery ? Dockery may have more guarentee money up front, but over th elength of the contract who will end up being paid more ?

2nd. I think Dockery was obviously the the guy Marv and Co. wanted from the get go. Knowing that Marv was part of the Bills OL during the SB years I just simply have to trust he has a vision, knows the character of the players he's willing to pay for, and is making moves that fit his hypothesis on who needs to be a Bill and how we can dramatically improve our OL.

In marv we trust is my motto. I have no reason to believe anything else !

[!Papacrunk!]

I too liked Sabans D. I started to doubt his ability on the offensive side of the ball when he hired MM.

Saban turned out to be the worst signing in NFL's history. He screwed the fins big time.

It should be intersting to see what Cameron can do without the OL , qb, TE (he had at SD) and especially Tomlinson in his line up. If Mueller is as good as AJ Smith, maybe the fins can get back on track ASAP.
It will take time, most def, but at least the common thread among what I've read about Cameron is that he gets the most out of his players, and with things seeming a bit lean, I'll have to hope that's true.

As far as defense, I think one of our greatest offseason moves that didn't get a lot of press was re-signing Capers as our DC. It seemed like Saban's d could get overly complex, but Capers was there to help bridge that gap with the players. Keeping Capers and his 3-4, 3-4 hybrid was great IMO.

[Luisito23]

In Marv we trust is my motto. I have no reason to believe anything else !


I love you Marv!!!......:beers: :drunks:.....BILLS 4 LIFE!!!!!.....



GO BILLS!!!!!

[gr8slayer]

You couldn't have gone wrong with any of the three. I'm just glad we got one of top tier OG's, a position that has been a weakness for damn near a decade (minus Brown)

[Talk0fNewYork]

I can care less, we actually have an o-line!

[gr8slayer]

I can care less, we actually have an o-line!
How long has it been since we last said that?

[Lexwhat]

can't say. Anything can happen . I can only hope. We're still missing a rb and a bonafide no. 2. But at least Marv is doing his best to make sure he succeeeds unlike Donohoe who grabs scrubs like Bennie and hoping JP lives to see another day. You know what it's like since you're a finfan.

At least Marv is doing the opposite of what Saban did with your O by hiring both Malarkey and Bennie and then expecting Culp to succeed.

Come on man, JP should make leaps and bounds this year (However, Pro-Bowl is not an issue)...If we get a productive running back, JP should play consistently as hes had enough time to get used to the speed of the NFL.

IMO, not having a bonafide #2 is NOT any reason to make excuses for JP. If JP can't succeed with this O-Line, a RB (whoever that might be), and Lee Evans, it will be a disappointment.

I like the direction that Marv is taking though....Go Bills!!!!

[gr8slayer]

Come on man, JP should make leaps and bounds this year (However, Pro-Bowl is not an issue)...If we get a productive running back, JP should play consistently as hes had enough time to get used to the speed of the NFL.

IMO, not having a bonafide #2 is NOT any reason to make excuses for JP. If JP can't succeed with this O-Line, a RB (whoever that might be), and Lee Evans, it will be a disappointment.

I like the direction that Marv is taking though....Go Bills!!!!
As long as Losman continues to progress. The last thing this team needs is for J.P. to regress. But I have faith.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Having a better offensive line should make it easier for JP Losman to make progress--to what extent, only time will tell because much of what he lacks is experience-related and he still has to get that experience. It should, however, also help the running game. I won't say that having Peters and Dockery on the left side of the Bills line will compare to what Seattle had in Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson on the left side of their line a couple of years ago, but they should be pretty good at opening holes for whoever the Bills have running the ball for them next year.

Indeed, if I were Willis McGahee, I would be singing a different tune today and just about begging the Bills to let me stay and play out the last year of my contract in Buffalo! With the changes that the Bills have made to their offensive line, Willis' market value today is a lot lower than it's likely to be a year from now. Which is why I now think that the Bills should trade McGahee for the best draft pick they can get.

If I were a free agent running back, I would seriously take a look at Buffalo now. I think these moves will make the Bills a more attractive landing place, especially for one of the lower-tiered RBs, like Kevan Barlow, who is looking to revive his career and market value. If I were A.Thomas, I would certainly be in deep discussions about re-signing at this point.

Having added these players to their offensive line will make it a lot easier for the Bills to go with a rookie RB if they manage to trade McGahee for a first day draft choice. Usually the weakest part of a rookie RB's game is his pass-blocking and having a decent offensive line blocking and a good running game can really help in disguising that deficiency.

[gr8slayer]

According to Sirius Steinbach got the richest deal in OG history :idunno:

[Talk0fNewYork]

How long has it been since we last said that?Exactly

[justasportsfan]

Come on man, JP should make leaps and bounds this year (However, Pro-Bowl is not an issue)...If we get a productive running back, JP should play consistently as hes had enough time to get used to the speed of the NFL.

IMO, not having a bonafide #2 is NOT any reason to make excuses for JP. If JP can't succeed with this O-Line, a RB (whoever that might be), and Lee Evans, it will be a disappointment.

I like the direction that Marv is taking though....Go Bills!!!!


Anything can happen. I just rather wait before I start saying jp is going to make leaps and bounds. Theoretically speaking he should.

[YardRat]

It's a crap shoot, folks. Nobody knows how things will turn out, and whether the money was well spent or not until they start playing the games.

It is what it is, accept it and move on.

[YardRat]

Anything can happen. I just rather wait before I start saying jp is going to make leaps and bounds. Theoretically speaking he should.

He better. I won't mind if doesn't actually make the Pro Bowl, but he better perform like he should be there.

[gr8slayer]

He better. I won't mind if doesn't actually make the Pro Bowl, but he better perform like he should be there.
Pro Bowl means nothing now-a-days.

[G. Host]

Indeed, if I were Willis McGahee, I would be singing a different tune today and just about begging the Bills to let me stay and play out the last year of my contract in Buffalo! With the changes that the Bills have made to their offensive line, Willis' market value today is a lot lower than it's likely to be a year from now. Which is why I now think that the Bills should trade McGahee for the best draft pick they can get.

You are assuming Willis is a good back and will perform better which has not been proven. It is more likely that despite the better OL Willis will not look much better and this will expose him for what he is - a college player who had one good year and is living off that reputation. Besides next year is supposed to be a good draft for RBs and would you rather sign a fresh college back or a back with Willis's bagage and agent?

I hear Travis Henry is available but I have not had time to keep up with news. The management who treates him like a dustrag is out now so I am wondering if Marv can tap Thurman as his envoy.

[justasportsfan]

He better. I won't mind if doesn't actually make the Pro Bowl, but he better perform like he should be there.


Fairchild will open up the playbook this year. We shall see if Jp can pull it of. With his work ethic he should be able to but I am not one to count the chicks just yet.