Bills: Worst offseason in the NFL

[OpIv37]

Before you neg, groan the hell out of me, this is NOT my personal opinion, I'm just the messenger.

Smith said the Pats had the best off-season by adding Thomas and Welker, and we had the worst because we lost Fletcher, Clements, and McGahee and haven't replaced any of them.

I do have to say two things. First the Jets, Pats, and arguably the Fish have all improved this off-season, so life in our division will once again be a living hell. Second, losing McGahee doesn't really concern me because there are a bunch of RB's available in FA and the draft, but our D is in big trouble. We needed to upgrade, but instead we lost two starters and haven't added a single defensive player. The FO is putting WAY too much stuck into hoping these young guys come into their own, and it's gonna burn us.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I do think that next year will be a lot like the last. All the stars would have to align for us to sneak into the playoffs.

We are 2 good drafts away from seriously contending.

[Elminster]

Before you neg, groan the hell out of me, this is NOT my personal opinion, I'm just the messenger.

Smith said the Pats had the best off-season by adding Thomas and Welker, and we had the worst because we lost Fletcher, Clements, and McGahee and haven't replaced any of them.

I do have to say two things. First the Jets, Pats, and arguably the Fish have all improved this off-season, so life in our division will once again be a living hell. Second, losing McGahee doesn't really concern me because there are a bunch of RB's available in FA and the draft, but our D is in big trouble. We needed to upgrade, but instead we lost two starters and haven't added a single defensive player. The FO is putting WAY too much stuck into hoping these young guys come into their own, and it's gonna burn us.
Because it's not like signing every veteran in sight ever failed us, did it? Why don't you watch 'em play before you pass judgement? Get over the no doubt TD-based pessimism('cause his young guys rarely if ever stepped up to get anything other than their checks) and just trust in the Marv for once...

[Dr. Lecter]

Which Smith said this?

[Dr. Lecter]

Never mind, I just saw the subtitle.

How does he grade the offseason when it is only partially over?

[NC-BILLS44]

Michael Smith, the basketball analyst. Since when did he become a football expert.

[Romes]

worst offseason just like the worst draft in 2006, right?


In Marv I Trust

[The King]

I would say its been the Giants... they have lost half their team and havent replaced them. But then again I am not a complete ****tard like Smith.

[Earthquake Enyart]

After yesterday, I think the Ravens have had the worst offseason. :snicker:

[OpIv37]

Michael Smith, the basketball analyst. Since when did he become a football expert.

maybe I got the name wrong- I wasn't really paying attention until they started talking about the Bills.

[OpIv37]

Because it's not like signing every veteran in sight ever failed us, did it? Why don't you watch 'em play before you pass judgement? Get over the no doubt TD-based pessimism('cause his young guys rarely if ever stepped up to get anything other than their checks) and just trust in the Marv for once...

Our D sucked last year.

And who exactly am I supposed to watch play? We lost two starters and replaced them with... no one. Forget veterans- right now we don't even have enough bodies for LB or CB.

First, do you really think we're going to have as much "success" drafting defenders this year as we did last year? Second, the first year guys did OK but their lack of experience definitely showed at times- our D isn't good enough to overcome that.

[TacklingDummy]

Don't forget the Bills resigned Coy Wire, Shaud Williams, Lindell, Kelsey and signed Whittle, Dockery and Walker. Those are big time moves. /Sarcasm off

[Statman]

Before you neg, groan the hell out of me, this is NOT my personal opinion, I'm just the messenger.

Smith said the Pats had the best off-season by adding Thomas and Welker, and we had the worst because we lost Fletcher, Clements, and McGahee and haven't replaced any of them.

I do have to say two things. First the Jets, Pats, and arguably the Fish have all improved this off-season, so life in our division will once again be a living hell. Second, losing McGahee doesn't really concern me because there are a bunch of RB's available in FA and the draft, but our D is in big trouble. We needed to upgrade, but instead we lost two starters and haven't added a single defensive player. The FO is putting WAY too much stuck into hoping these young guys come into their own, and it's gonna burn us.
Contrary to the opinions of some here this team has absolutely no direction.

Our only substantial upgrade was Dockery over Gandy and some of that is due to addition by subtraction. Dockery is good, but he's not Hutch/Steinbach money good by anyone's assessment.

Otherwise we haven't upgraded anywhere. Kelsay wasn't an upgrade, he was merely big money for the same mediocre product we had last year on a near last ranked defensive line.

Dockery was nice, but adding one guard to a line that needed upgrades in four of five spots isn't going to propel us into the playoffs. His addition did nothing for pass protection because he is not known for his pass blocking.

As of now, the other three teams in the division have either stayed put or moved ahead while we have clearly gotten worse.

What's to prevent teams from gaining over five yards per carry on us next season is a good question. Also, who's gonna stop teams from improving their passing games on us. A pair of pass rushing defensive ends and a couple of safeties cannot possibly carry the entire defense.

[Statman]

Don't forget the Bills resigned Coy Wire, Shaud Williams, Lindell, Kelsey and signed Whittle, Dockery and Walker. Those are big time moves. /Sarcasm off
LOL

Interestingly, depending upon who you ask, that's probably correct. LOL

The same people are trying to sell the notion that Langston Walker is anything but a very mediocre starter that's now obscenely overpaid.

[djjimkelly]

yeah hes ridiculous. i dont get why everyone is so on fletchers tip as a middle linebacker. i think they look at league leaders on nfl .com and think he was the straw that stirs the drink little do they know all of his tackles where for 5 yard gain id would truly say like 80% of them. we lose the highest paid FA in league history people think we lost best cb ever. now dont get me wrong i think loss of nate will hurt us. and willis is the only house hold name non football fans would know and we axed him. to the avg fan we do look like we had a bad offseason.......

IMO us signing 2 o line is one of the biggest moves in enitire nfl. i dont care who rb is if there arent holes u cant run. u think its cooincidence KC loses holmes johnson comes in doesnt miss a beat. it isnt its all the o line creating holes i could rush for a 100 yards thur( provided someone didnt break my neck on the first tackle lol) to any idiot that thinks football is won with only fast skill position guys we look like we did real bad. to anyone who truly understands football.. that game is won with the lines that RB is the overrated position in the league we have been solid this offseason.


all this being said we need to address RB big time in draft even though i think u can plug and play most competant backs in any offense marv and co look like they want a thurman clone to play RB and LYNCH is what we need i dont care about him running ball we can find almost anyone to do that. its the fact he can catch and make stuff in open field happen like an extra wr in passing situations.

[TigerJ]

I'm not going to neg anyone for an honest opinion, but after briefly reporting what someone else said, you did take the time to go into some detail as to why he's right. Methinks thou ageeist with him completely. My reaction is like that of some of the others. No, Buffalo did not go out and replace the players it lost yet. They had a good idea that Nate was going to bolt the team and had some reservations about retaining Fletcher anyway. However, the Bills brain trust felt the talent available in free agency made it easier to use free agency to fill the team's critical need to upgrade the offensive line. They have some left time in free agency and I think they may at least partially address one of the three areas where they lost players, but I think the Bills feel they are better off trying to fill those needs in the draft. They made a judgement call. Teams have to make judgement calls this time of year regarding personnel. We can second guess those judgements in seven or eight months with some validity, but right now, I'll trust Levy, Jauron, and others on the team to know how ready Youboty will be this year, how effective Crowell can be in the middle, and who they might get to replace an indifferent Willis McGahee.

[Statman]

Never mind, I just saw the subtitle.

How does he grade the offseason when it is only partially over?

Well, there's really not a whole lot left in free agency, especially where our needs are. Everyone's talking about Chris Brown at RB. That guy stunk in Tennessee. Big plays or nothing. He gets hurt often.

We will need to turn to the draft for the rest of it, particularly given the way that we've spent, like drunken sailors.

Rookies aren't going to carry this team.

We shat the bed on our cadre of newbie DTs last season leaving the same holes there now with wasted draft picks and lots of big money tied up in contracts. Our MLB is gone and we have no decent cover cornerbacks on the team.

We have no FB, no RB, and only a marginally upgraded OL.

That's a lot to overcome in the remainder of free agency and the draft. And if we repeat last year's exercise by trading up for a player, then we'll be filling fewer holes in that way too.

It takes a real optimist, the rose colored glasses kind, to think that we're going to be fielding a decent team this fall.

[User Manuel]

No, you were right IV, it was Michael Smith.

Unfortunately, ESPN has pushed this star driven mentality I see no other way to put it forward. Basically they view McGahee as this "star" trapped in Buffalo and the simple fact he "got out" means he will be a star again. never mind that a proven back in Lewis failed there last year.

Say we draft Michael Bush and he gets 1200 yards and the new OL turns out dominate, then Marv is the genius. Guys like Smith get paid to be provocative on a moments notice

As for the Patriots Adalius Thomas is nice and Welker, well whatever, Paoli and Belichek get nods for everything for their sucess. But I recall how bad ESPN crushed them before the run for signing "washed up, journeymen players and handing their QB job to Brady.

As for the Jets and Dolphins if either teams fans are thrilled with their offseason, well, they will be sadly disappointed next season.

IMO the bottom line is this. If Buffalo turns those picks into quality they win the deal no matter what Willis does in Baltimore. If the picks have no impact then we lose. This has been a bad team with Willis I see nothing to fear by moving an underachiever and malcontent away in order to help right the franchise.

I will give this to Marv. He is moving bad personalities out and reshaping the room. My gut feeling that this team will be better. Bold moves are necessary to turn a team around, I view this as a bold move that will pay off even if it amounts to addition by subtraction.

[Captain gameboy]

I think ESPN is having its worst year ever.

[don137]

I am not too concerned. This off-season is a work in progress. You don't grade a test after only 1/3 of the way through. The Bills will address LB and RB in the draft for sure and probably draft a DB.
The only thing that concerns me is I am not sure where are we going to get the guy to start opposite of McGee. I know you don't need a shut down corner for the Cover 2 but it is much harder to replace a good corner then it is to replace a LB or RB.
I think the young guys will do fine. They will make a few mistakes but I think players like Ellison, Whitner, McCargo, Williams and Simpson will be much better than last year. Kelsey was really steping it up too last year and I think he will get even better this year.

[JoeMama]

I don't understand the Langston Walker move.

His main strength is that he's apparently a decent run-blocker.

But he's awful in pass protection. He allowed an obscene 10 1/2 sacks last season. Which is putrid for a five year veteran at right tackle who generally faces second tier defensive ends.

I'm actually much more comfortable with Terrence Pennington at RT, who only allowed like 2 sacks last season.

[Statman]

yeah hes ridiculous. i dont get why everyone is so on fletchers tip as a middle linebacker. i think they look at league leaders on nfl .com and think he was the straw that stirs the drink little do they know all of his tackles where for 5 yard gain id would truly say like 80% of them. we lose the highest paid FA in league history people think we lost best cb ever. now dont get me wrong i think loss of nate will hurt us. and willis is the only house hold name non football fans would know and we axed him. to the avg fan we do look like we had a bad offseason.......

IMO us signing 2 o line is one of the biggest moves in enitire nfl. i dont care who rb is if there arent holes u cant run. u think its cooincidence KC loses holmes johnson comes in doesnt miss a beat. it isnt its all the o line creating holes i could rush for a 100 yards thur( provided someone didnt break my neck on the first tackle lol) to any idiot that thinks football is won with only fast skill position guys we look like we did real bad. to anyone who truly understands football.. that game is won with the lines that RB is the overrated position in the league we have been solid this offseason.


all this being said we need to address RB big time in draft even though i think u can plug and play most competant backs in any offense marv and co look like they want a thurman clone to play RB and LYNCH is what we need i dont care about him running ball we can find almost anyone to do that. its the fact he can catch and make stuff in open field happen like an extra wr in passing situations.

You overrate the linemen we did pick up dj. Walker is barely an adequate starter, really. Dockery is good, and solid, but he is also not a dominant G. He's a very good one with limited pass blocking and downfield skills. He'll help our short rushing game, but won't be much better than average otherwise. Good pickup, far too much money. Walker was a dumb move. Whittle is purely a backup player that's long in the tooth.

Lynch would be a good pickup, but not at 12th.

As to Fletcher and Clements, it was good for us not to resign them given their contracts. But that does not mean their departure has not left glaring holes, which it has. I mean who is going to backfill for Fletcher? We can all talk about it, but until it happens it's a good question.

As to Clements, the fans in SF are going to be regretting that signing. But still, we don't have one decent cover cornerback currently on the roster unless Youboty steps up and that's a huge if.

Gotta look at the facts against the backdrop of the big picture, not the particulars of any individual player.

[SquishDaFish]

JESUS CHRIST! Its only the 1st week of FA. Get over it. Theres still plenty of FA left and the damn draft. Some people are never happy.

[Statman]

I don't understand the Langston Walker move.

His main strength is that he's apparently a decent run-blocker.

But he's awful in pass protection. He allowed an obscene 10 1/2 sacks last season. Which is putrid for a five year veteran at right tackle who generally faces second tier defensive ends.

I'm actually much more comfortable with Terrence Pennington at RT, who only allowed like 2 sacks last season.
Ditto here. He should play RG and we should let Pennington continue to learn at RT taking a gamble there. It will be a huge mistake to put Walker at RT.

As a G however he's enormously overpaid. He'd be overpaid at RT too, but Ts typically get more.

You are dead on however. That reality will be all to well known this fall.

[Elminster]

Our D sucked last year.

And who exactly am I supposed to watch play? We lost two starters and replaced them with... no one. Forget veterans- right now we don't even have enough bodies for LB or CB.

First, do you really think we're going to have as much "success" drafting defenders this year as we did last year? Second, the first year guys did OK but their lack of experience definitely showed at times- our D isn't good enough to overcome that.
Yeah, it did suck last year. And that's the point. We had Fletch and Clements and the defense sucked. So I guess they weren't important or good enough to make it NOT suck, you see? You can expect another draft for defense and another year of improvement. I've said before and I'll say it again....we're on a three-year plan. We're in year 2, and we'll be getting young guys their licks and probably make a more serious run at the play-offs....because, you know, at times, our defense played pretty well, and we upgraded our offense substantially by bringing in three offensive linemen.

One of our defense's problems was that it was on the field forever last year because our offense was very much an "all-or-nothing" proposition in moving the ball. Provided we get a running back who can actually hit a hole, we'll be much better. There'll be more and bigger holes, and JP will have more time.

But really...you're problem is that you have zero patience. If Indy had behaved like you, they would've brought in vet QB after vet QB not let Manning play because he's a young guy and would make mistakes at first. You can't just draft guys and shelf them because they're inexperienced, you have to let them PLAY, or otherwise you just end up with an endless succession of stop-gaps until they're "ready" which they never will be if they don't play. Seriously dude, chill. I'm betting you're in for a pleasant surprise....

[Dr. Lecter]

Contrary to the opinions of some here this team has absolutely no direction.

OK...........

There is direction. Clean out TD's crap and get team players instead of me first guys. It is not a one year project.

The team is building through the draft. Like the Pats and Colts have.


Our only substantial upgrade was Dockery over Gandy and some of that is due to addition by subtraction. Dockery is good, but he's not Hutch/Steinbach money good by anyone's assessment.

Otherwise we haven't upgraded anywhere. Kelsay wasn't an upgrade, he was merely big money for the same mediocre product we had last year on a near last ranked defensive line.

I provided a nice breakdown of Steinbach and Dockery, using actual stats and data. Please take a look at it. It is very revealing.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1882201&postcount=26


Dockery was nice, but adding one guard to a line that needed upgrades in four of five spots isn't going to propel us into the playoffs. His addition did nothing for pass protection because he is not known for his pass blocking.

The pass protection was actual decent the last half of the season. It coincided with JP's increased output.

As for upgrading four out of 5 spots they have 3 new starters. Fowler and Peters were fine last year.

I have questions about Walker as well. Dockery is a significant upgrade over Gandy. Whether it is Whittle or a talented Butler starting at RG, it wil likely be an improvement.


As of now, the other three teams in the division have either stayed put or moved ahead while we have clearly gotten worse.

What's to prevent teams from gaining over five yards per carry on us next season is a good question. Also, who's gonna stop teams from improving their passing games on us. A pair of pass rushing defensive ends and a couple of safeties cannot possibly carry the entire defense.

I agree the other teams have improved. (although the Jets improvement has been minimal, imo) The Dolphins is minimal too, as adding Porter will only help so much when they have no offense and no line.

Finally the offseason is not over. There is still a draft. There are still FA's to be signed. There are improving young players.


I will never understand why people feel the need to proclaim an offseason a disaster before it is over. The Bills have addressed the biggest need, the O-line, so far. They lost an over-hyped CB who while very good got too much money and the same people who ***** about his depature would ***** about his had he stayed.

They lost Fletcher, which sucked. But he is not a good fit for this defense and his age makes his money out of line. Not to mention he was part of the defense that was so bad last year. Wsa it his fault? No, not entirely. But he did not make it good either.

As for the passing defense, it was good last year. Why the assumption it will be bad this year?

[OpIv37]

I'm not going to neg anyone for an honest opinion, but after briefly reporting what someone else said, you did take the time to go into some detail as to why he's right. Methinks thou ageeist with him completely. My reaction is like that of some of the others. No, Buffalo did not go out and replace the players it lost yet. They had a good idea that Nate was going to bolt the team and had some reservations about retaining Fletcher anyway. However, the Bills brain trust felt the talent available in free agency made it easier to use free agency to fill the team's critical need to upgrade the offensive line. They have some left time in free agency and I think they may at least partially address one of the three areas where they lost players, but I think the Bills feel they are better off trying to fill those needs in the draft. They made a judgement call. Teams have to make judgement calls this time of year regarding personnel. We can second guess those judgements in seven or eight months with some validity, but right now, I'll trust Levy, Jauron, and others on the team to know how ready Youboty will be this year, how effective Crowell can be in the middle, and who they might get to replace an indifferent Willis McGahee.

I don't agree with the premise that we had the worst off-season in the NFL. I do agree that we still have some holes to fill.

Going into this offseason, we had 2 areas that I would call critical (OL and DL) and one area that I would consider important (LB). That became more important with Fletcher's departure, and Clements' departure puts CB on the "important" list as well. You could add RB with McGahee's departure, but there are a lot of options there som I'm not overly concerned.

So, out of OL, DL, LB, and CB, we've addressed OL. That leaves three huge holes to fill in the draft. So far, our offense is mildly better and our already-bad D is worse. It's shaping up to be another long season in 2007.

[ublinkwescore]

Before you neg, groan the hell out of me, this is NOT my personal opinion, I'm just the messenger.

Smith said the Pats had the best off-season by adding Thomas and Welker, and we had the worst because we lost Fletcher, Clements, and McGahee and haven't replaced any of them.

I do have to say two things. First the Jets, Pats, and arguably the Fish have all improved this off-season, so life in our division will once again be a living hell. Second, losing McGahee doesn't really concern me because there are a bunch of RB's available in FA and the draft, but our D is in big trouble. We needed to upgrade, but instead we lost two starters and haven't added a single defensive player. The FO is putting WAY too much stuck into hoping these young guys come into their own, and it's gonna burn us.

These young guys kept us competitive with the NFL's toughest schedule last season (pats and jets twice - I think we should have swept the Jets, and the pats got some help from the refs, but what else is new, Colts, Jags, Ravens, Chargers - the Bears were the only true @$$whipping we recieved) why is it so far fetched that they can't get better - so much so to where we actually win games against our tough competition this year? Seriously, tell me - if someone were to tell you that we'd finish this year 7-9 with the toughest schedule in the league, with as many as 6 rookies on the field at one point in games against tough opponents - would you have taken them seriously? knowing you, I already know the answer - I hope this constant negativity is your way of trying to jinx our team into making you STFU.


Sometimes, as far as personell are concerned, your hands are tied - we could have kept Clements, and neglected the line yet again - and had the same results that we've had year in and year out for the better part of the last decade - no playoffs. Our front office has made the right moves - if our O stays on the field more this year, it will help our D plain and simple. Second of all, FA is a little over a week old, and this douche is counting his chicks? That's smart.

there are still a lot of transactions to be made, and I'll wait to see what transpires on the field before I crown anyone superbowl champs before a game has even been played - preseason included.

[justasportsfan]

Before you neg, groan the hell out of me, this is NOT my personal opinion, I'm just the messenger.

Smith said the Pats had the best off-season by adding Thomas and Welker, and we had the worst because we lost Fletcher, Clements, and McGahee and haven't replaced any of them.

I do have to say two things. First the Jets, Pats, and arguably the Fish have all improved this off-season, so life in our division will once again be a living hell. Second, losing McGahee doesn't really concern me because there are a bunch of RB's available in FA and the draft, but our D is in big trouble. We needed to upgrade, but instead we lost two starters and haven't added a single defensive player. The FO is putting WAY too much stuck into hoping these young guys come into their own, and it's gonna burn us.
does the season start tomorrow? Someone forgot to tell me. and how does the fins become arguably better? For the same reason we will suck, they haven't replaced their players either.

[ublinkwescore]

I do think that next year will be a lot like the last. All the stars would have to align for us to sneak into the playoffs.

We are 2 good drafts away from seriously contending.

I groaned you because Nick Markakis did - he's like my idol now.

[BleedinGreenNC]

Here's the way i look at it, your upgraded a major weakness that you had last year, all people look at are the "SEXY" pickups, they dont look at the fact that your O-line is going to be good this season. Let them talk, you guys will be ok, the only suprise was trading Willis, but you got a hell of a lot in return, so great job on that.

Be patient, so what the Pat's got Thomas, he may work out, he may not. As far as the Fins go, they upgraded an already dangerous defense, but here's the key, they havent work too much on their glaring weakness, their offense.

All in all, you guys may not be having the flashy off-season, but your having an effective one. Case in point, my Jet's, everyone wanted them to go flashy and pick Leinart, but we picked D-Brick and Mangold, not flashy, but they helped so much this past season, trust me everyone wants flashy, but once you get those core guys that you know are going to contribute and show you results, your team is going to take off.

So i say this to you Bill's fans, hang tight, in my book, you have improved so much more than people are giving you credit for.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, it did suck last year. And that's the point. We had Fletch and Clements and the defense sucked. So I guess they weren't important or good enough to make it NOT suck, you see? You can expect another draft for defense and another year of improvement. I've said before and I'll say it again....we're on a three-year plan. We're in year 2, and we'll be getting young guys their licks and probably make a more serious run at the play-offs....because, you know, at times, our defense played pretty well, and we upgraded our offense substantially by bringing in three offensive linemen.

One of our defense's problems was that it was on the field forever last year because our offense was very much an "all-or-nothing" proposition in moving the ball. Provided we get a running back who can actually hit a hole, we'll be much better. There'll be more and bigger holes, and JP will have more time.

But really...you're problem is that you have zero patience. If Indy had behaved like you, they would've brought in vet QB after vet QB not let Manning play because he's a young guy and would make mistakes at first. You can't just draft guys and shelf them because they're inexperienced, you have to let them PLAY, or otherwise you just end up with an endless succession of stop-gaps until they're "ready" which they never will be if they don't play. Seriously dude, chill. I'm betting you're in for a pleasant surprise....

I'll admit I have zero patience, but seriously, this team has been in a rebuilding cycle for 7 years. I don't care that Marv has only been here for a year, it's a new regime, etc- none of that **** matters because as a fan, 7 years of losing is still 7 years, regardless of who the titular head of the organization is.

If our D wasn't good enough with Fletch and Clements on the field, and the guys behind Fletch and Clements weren't good enough to take their jobs, what does that tell you? Seriously, I think Fletch has lost a step and Clements is extremely overrated, but you still need to replace them with someone. Remember how much our D dropped off when we lost Pat Williams and replaced him with our back-ups? It doesn't work.

[Statman]

We can second guess those judgements in seven or eight months with some validity, but right now, I'll trust Levy, Jauron, and others on the team to know how ready Youboty will be this year, how effective Crowell can be in the middle, and who they might get to replace an indifferent Willis McGahee.
The problem is that we all trusted them on the McCargo trade up, the Tripplett acquisition, the Royal signing, the Price signing, the Fowler pickup, and our draft last year which other than for Whitner who didn't perform to 8th overall standards (yet at least), or Simpson, did not produce much in the way of impact or promise for impact.

We've been hearing this song and dance about "trusting the 'experts' and those that 'know better' than we do," etc. for a long time. The onus is really no longer on us as fans to extend our further benefits of the doubt, it is squarely on the organiztion to prove to us fans that hiring Marv was a good call, that Marv's acquisition of Jauron was a good call, and that Wilson's brain is still functioning on at least half power.

They can prove that any season by posting a winning record. Anything short of that and you and everyone else can call for more seasons of waiting to see what the final product is, calls for futher patience when it's not at all warranted given their own positions at the time of their own hirings, and general further excuses for more risky decisions by this team.

We owe them nothing. They owe us a decent team, sound decision making, good drafting, and all around good management. Instead we get decisions that need defenses such as the one you just fronted.

Sorry, but the good fans of the Bills deserve better, much better!

The fact that that schtick even flies anymore is amazing.

[ublinkwescore]

worst offseason just like the worst draft in 2006, right?


In Marv I Trust

couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dr. Lecter]

We shat the bed on our cadre of newbie DTs last season leaving the same holes there now with wasted draft picks and lots of big money tied up in contracts. Our MLB is gone and we have no decent cover cornerbacks on the team.

We shat the bed????

2 of the guys were rookies last eyar and one was hurt. How can they be judged? You know, as well as I do, that DT's often take years to come around.


We have no FB, no RB, and only a marginally upgraded OL.

That's a lot to overcome in the remainder of free agency and the draft. And if we repeat last year's exercise by trading up for a player, then we'll be filling fewer holes in that way too.
The line looks like it is much upgraded. Sorry, we disagree there.


It takes a real optimist, the rose colored glasses kind, to think that we're going to be fielding a decent team this fall.

This team was much improved in the 2nd half of last year. Losman showed progress. Some of the young guys on defense started to come around. Other parts of the offense (WR's, receiving game, etc.) were looking good.

Teams can improve by adding guys and/or letting their own guys improve.

It takes a real pessimist, who seemingly enjoys suffering, to give this team no chance and to be this down after one week of FA and before the draft.

[gr8slayer]

I don't understand the Langston Walker move.

His main strength is that he's apparently a decent run-blocker.

But he's awful in pass protection. He allowed an obscene 10 1/2 sacks last season. Which is putrid for a five year veteran at right tackle who generally faces second tier defensive ends.

I'm actually much more comfortable with Terrence Pennington at RT, who only allowed like 2 sacks last season.
Sometimes all a guy needs is a change of scenery. BTW, you do realize who the poor bastard played for right? I think everyone on that team mustered up ten sacks.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'll admit I have zero patience, but seriously, this team has been in a rebuilding cycle for 7 years. I don't care that Marv has only been here for a year, it's a new regime, etc- none of that **** matters because as a fan, 7 years of losing is still 7 years, regardless of who the titular head of the organization is.


So you fire everybody year after year and start over????

It does matter who the head of the organization is. Usually, a team can't take **** and make into flowers in one year.

[Statman]

I'll admit I have zero patience, but seriously, this team has been in a rebuilding cycle for 7 years. I don't care that Marv has only been here for a year, it's a new regime, etc- none of that **** matters because as a fan, 7 years of losing is still 7 years, regardless of who the titular head of the organization is.

If our D wasn't good enough with Fletch and Clements on the field, and the guys behind Fletch and Clements weren't good enough to take their jobs, what does that tell you? Seriously, I think Fletch has lost a step and Clements is extremely overrated, but you still need to replace them with someone. Remember how much our D dropped off when we lost Pat Williams and replaced him with our back-ups? It doesn't work.
Furthermore, Marv adamantly denied that we were in full rebuild mode, avidly stated that "the future is now," meaning that it wasn't three or four years down the road, openly expressed the notion that a winning team was no more than a couple of seasons away, all in spite of acting completley the opposite.

It can either be written off as incompetence or lying. Fans can pick their poison. But right now this team is no more headed for a winning season than Britany Spears is headed to a nunery.

[JoeMama]

Ditto here. He should play RG and we should let Pennington continue to learn at RT taking a gamble there. It will be a huge mistake to put Walker at RT.

As a G however he's enormously overpaid. He'd be overpaid at RT too, but Ts typically get more.

You are dead on however. That reality will be all to well known this fall.

Which is frustrating.

Unless Jim McNally can perform a miracle, I actually think Walker is a highly paid downgrade at RT.

To me, it makes more sense to move Walker to RG where his size is a bigger virtue and his lack of pass protection is a lesser vice.

[njsue]

The Bills IMO have had one superb offseason in quite a long time. The MAJOR part of the Bills team got the necessary upgrade. Now JP Losman won't have to run for his life. The Bills offense will be scoring many points.

All the Bills will have to do is match the Defense to the Offense and PLAYOFFS BABY!

[OpIv37]

JESUS CHRIST! Its only the 1st week of FA. Get over it. Theres still plenty of FA left and the damn draft. Some people are never happy.

name the LBs, CB's and DT's that are left in FA that can help us. And any draft picks are going to show their lack of experience on D, like last year. We have young guys- we need to add experience. It cracks me up how people expect different results from the same actions time and time again....

[BleedinGreenNC]

[quote=Lawesome97]



As for the Jets and Dolphins if either teams fans are thrilled with their offseason, well, they will be sadly disappointed next season.



I really dont see how the Jet's fans can be disappointed, who did we have that was a dominant back last year? We ran the running back by committee, i am happy as hell that we have a feature back now, now im saying that we are going to the SB, but we have done some key things to improve.

What would you be saying if you got the same deal for Jones?

[Statman]

So you fire everybody year after year and start over????

It does matter who the head of the organization is. Usually, a team can't take **** and make into flowers in one year.
Good answer. Did you throw your toys around the room too. LOL

Unfortunately, this is what happens when you don't make decisions that aren't continually of a high risk variety.

I mean come on, is there anyone out there that doesn't still question, with those questions growing stronger by the month now with the draft still pending, that really thinks that the reality is that Marv wasn't really out of his league, now at 82 when this season starts, as a rookie GM?

Please.

At least be reasonable.

Sure, he's got the draft yet, but let's at least agree that if it's another draft "needing all kinds of explanations" as to why the picks were made, that perhaps Ralph blundered and in spades, ... again.

[Dr. Lecter]

The problem is that we all trusted them on the McCargo trade up, the Tripplett acquisition, the Royal signing, the Price signing, the Fowler pickup, and our draft last year which other than for Whitner who didn't perform to 8th overall standards (yet at least), or Simpson, did not produce much in the way of impact or promise for impact.
drafting, and all around good management. Instead we get decisions that need defenses such as the one you just fronted.


Last year's draft wasn't good???

Whitner was fine and played quite well. Simpson is a steal in the 4th. Williams is a steal in the 5th. Ellison?? Pennington? How many teams got more total starts out their draft? McCargo still has the jury out on him,as does Youboty. Butler has potential.


I don't see how you want a draft to show much more in ONE season than last year's did.

[OpIv37]

So you fire everybody year after year and start over????

It does matter who the head of the organization is. Usually, a team can't take **** and make into flowers in one year.

where did I say anything even remotely like that?

All I hear is "give it time- marv's only been there for a year". Well, that doesn't make 7 years of losing (with an 8th looming on the horizon) any easier to swallow.

[Captain gameboy]

Wish they'd include their Dolphin Super Bowl contender item in their expert assessments.

[justasportsfan]

The problem is that we all trusted them on the McCargo trade up, the Tripplett acquisition, the Royal signing, the Price signing, the Fowler pickup, and our draft last year which other than for Whitner who didn't perform to 8th overall standards (yet at least), or Simpson, did not produce much in the way of impact or promise for impact.

We've been hearing this song and dance about "trusting the 'experts' and those that 'know better' than we do," etc. for a long time. The onus is really no longer on us as fans to extend our further benefits of the doubt, it is squarely on the organiztion to prove to us fans that hiring Marv was a good call, that Marv's acquisition of Jauron was a good call, and that Wilson's brain is still functioning on at least half power.

They can prove that any season by posting a winning record. Anything short of that and you and everyone else can call for more seasons of waiting to see what the final product is, calls for futher patience when it's not at all warranted given their own positions at the time of their own hirings, and general further excuses for more risky decisions by this team.

We owe them nothing. They owe us a decent team, sound decision making, good drafting, and all around good management. Instead we get decisions that need defenses such as the one you just fronted.

Sorry, but the good fans of the Bills deserve better, much better!

The fact that that schtick even flies anymore is amazing.


sheez, man. Marv and co. has surpassed anyones expectations in their first year. only a fool wold've expected us to make it to the playoffs in their first year. Speaking of playofffs, if anyone said that the bills will be in the playoffs hunt by week 14 , they would be considered nuts.

You of all people couldn't be so wrong about last years outcome. Since they proved you to be sooooo wrong, couldn't you at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing or do you honestly think you know better.

[Statman]

Sorry, we disagree there.

Correct, we disagree in just about every opinion of this team.

Unfortunately for your side of this argument, the facts line up on mine.

;)

When we post a winning season, or even more, make the playoffs, please nudge me awake.

And don't blame me for this mess either. It is what it is based on the decisions of the owner of the team.

I will leave you with one question however Lechter, and one question only; let's see if you have the gumption to answer it, and it alone, directly.

Q: Ralph's been crying up a storm about not having the money to spend. He's stated that he/the Bills just can't do it. So where did the money for the record spending come from this year?

[Statman]

You of all people couldn't be so wrong about last years outcome. Since they proved you to be sooooo wrong, couldn't you at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing or do you honestly think you know better.
This season will certainly tell, won't it?

Can we at least agree that if we don't post at least a .500 season this fall, then yes, I am in fact more correct than they are?

[justasportsfan]

It as only a matter of time before OP started whining again. He whined about the OL not being attended to , now he's whing again about the D.

I guess the medication wore off. It's abck to crying.

[Statman]

And frankly, given the circumstances, I'd say they owe us a winning season, even if only 9-7 this fall. But we'll default to simply a non-losing one.

[Statman]

It as only a matter of time before OP started whining again. He whined about the OL not being attended to , now he's whing again about the D.

I guess the medication wore off. It's abck to crying.
You're happy with them presumably?

[Jan Reimers]

Smith was bemoaning the losses of Fletcher, Clements and McGahee, while never mentioning our additions to the O-Line.

Like many around the country, he has Willis mistaken for a good NFL running back, and doesn't realize Flether's liabilities. He fails to understand that you sometimes need to clean house - particularly when you have a lot of trash - before you can get better.

[Dr. Lecter]

Good answer. Did you throw your toys around the room too. LOL

Unfortunately, this is what happens when you don't make decisions that aren't continually of a high risk variety.

I mean come on, is there anyone out there that doesn't still question, with those questions growing stronger by the month now with the draft still pending, that really thinks that the reality is that Marv wasn't really out of his league, now at 82 when this season starts, as a rookie GM?

Please.

At least be reasonable.

Sure, he's got the draft yet, but let's at least agree that if it's another draft "needing all kinds of explanations" as to why the picks were made, that perhaps Ralph blundered and in spades, ... again.

Nice first comment. Op knows I just *****ing at him. So no, I did not throw my toys around.

Reasonable? Maybe I am not the only not being reasonable. You have given up on last year's rookies. Have you read teh Steinbach/Dockery comparison.

Look, people ***** and ***** and ***** about this team A team that came quite a far way from game 1 to game 16 last season. They had a major hole in the O-line and they have worked to fix it. They have options in the draft (Willis, Siler, Bush, Lynch) to fill other holes. They have young guys that can continue to improve (Losman, Evans, Williams, Ellison, Whitner, Wimpson)

People seem to forget this team was in the plaayoff hunt until there were two weeks left in the season. The same team that most "experts" had them being a bottom 5 team. The team would have made the playoffs had they played as well in the first half as they did the second half. They also had the hardest schedule in the NFL.

Is this team ready for a Super Bowl run? Probably not. Is this team awful and on a downside?

I don't think so.

[justasportsfan]

This season will certainly tell, won't it?

Can we at least agree that if we don't post at least a .500 season this fall, then yes, I am in fact more correct than they are?

Definitely this season will tell and I'm all for seeing whether MArv knows what he's doing. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on Marv. But so far, he's suprised us with what went on in the field.

You however criticize him like he's already failed. Why, because he doesn't do what you wnt him t do.


Between you, Moran and OP, he'll never be able to make all of you happy.

[Romes]

name the LBs, CB's and DT's that are left in FA that can help us. And any draft picks are going to show their lack of experience on D, like last year. We have young guys- we need to add experience. It cracks me up how people expect different results from the same actions time and time again....

Are there still holes? Yes. Especially, in the run D.

There still is stuff to be done to really improve the team. I just don't think the Bills have had the worst off-season.

Only big loss was Nate. Willis was an addition by subtraction. We needed to move in another direction with London. So there CB situation is worse, there run D situation really hasn't changed since last year, but they improved the OL. I'd say thats a scratch to slight improvement just because a good OL is critical to a having a good team.

Then there still is the draft. If the Bills are done now then I'd expect another 7-9, 8-8 year. Which would suck. But they clearly aren't.

[njsue]

[quote=Lawesome97]



As for the Jets and Dolphins if either teams fans are thrilled with their offseason, well, they will be sadly disappointed next season.



I really dont see how the Jet's fans can be disappointed, who did we have that was a dominant back last year? We ran the running back by committee, i am happy as hell that we have a feature back now, now im saying that we are going to the SB, but we have done some key things to improve.

What would you be saying if you got the same deal for Jones?


Aaron Schobel will see to it that Chad Pennington has a disappointment. :snicker:

[OpIv37]

It as only a matter of time before OP started whining again. He whined about the OL not being attended to , now he's whing again about the D.

I guess the medication wore off. It's abck to crying.

I gave props for addressing the OL.

But it's impossible to argue that our already-bad D hasn't deteriorated further. In fact, the FO seems content with our D as it is- they re-signed (or at least tendered) pretty much our entire incompetent DL from last year and they haven't brought in a SINGLE defensive FA yet. So far, the only talk of anything on the defensive side of the ball has been a backup safety and pipe dreams of trading for Briggs.

[Statman]

Last year's draft wasn't good???

Whitner was fine and played quite well. Simpson is a steal in the 4th. Williams is a steal in the 5th. Ellison?? Pennington? How many teams got more total starts out their draft? McCargo still has the jury out on him,as does Youboty. Butler has potential.


I don't see how you want a draft to show much more in ONE season than last year's did.
Last year's draft was not a value draft. We could have done much, much better. Whitner was good, but there's a great chance we could have landed him later easily. McCargo was a terrible pick for two day one picks. Or have you entirely forgotten that we traded away a mid-2nd and early 3rd to move up to get him?

Ellison did what, intercepted one ball that fell right into his hands? Big deal. He did little else otherwise except according to the Bills own press corps.

Pennington showed promise but got tons of help from TE/H-back play. We'll see how he does this year, but hey, wait a minute, or will Walker now replace him and relegate him to backup status. Can't be, eh, otherwise "the expert's" assessments are useless. ; )

Two players, Whitner and Simpson, do not a great draft make, especially when we lost a day one pick for a stiff like McCargo. The guy barely had a pulse when he was on the field. Oh, and then he proceeded to produce the same exact injury he had in college. Hmmm... Sounds like a great move to me. /sarcasm

BTW, is it sunny and in the 80s in Buffalo where you are now? ; )

[ublinkwescore]

Smith was bemoaning the losses of Fletcher, Clements and McGahee, while never mentioning our additions to the O-Line.

Like many around the country, he has Willis mistaken for a good NFL running back, and doesn't realize Flether's liabilities. He fails to understand that you sometimes need to clean house - particularly when you have a lot of trash - before you can get better.

I'm gonna have a major mancrush on Marv if he continues to make his critics look like the fools he's proven them to be so far.

[Statman]

I gave props for addressing the OL.

But it's impossible to argue that our already-bad D hasn't deteriorated further. In fact, the FO seems content with our D as it is- they re-signed (or at least tendered) pretty much our entire incompetent DL from last year and they haven't brought in a SINGLE defensive FA yet. So far, the only talk of anything on the defensive side of the ball has been a backup safety and pipe dreams of trading for Briggs.

"Addressing" it and addressing it well are two different things. Yes, we addressed it, but only a certain subset of Bills fans seem to think we either got great value or truly upgraded our lines by a huge amount.

[OpIv37]

Are there still holes? Yes. Especially, in the run D.

There still is stuff to be done to really improve the team. I just don't think the Bills have had the worst off-season.

Only big loss was Nate. Willis was an addition by subtraction. We needed to move in another direction with London. So there CB situation is worse, there run D situation really hasn't changed since last year, but they improved the OL. I'd say thats a scratch to slight improvement just because a good OL is critical to a having a good team.

Then there still is the draft. If the Bills are done now then I'd expect another 7-9, 8-8 year. Which would suck. But they clearly aren't.

I said that I don't agree with the premise that we've had the worst off-season. But we still have some huge holes on D.

Hell, I didn't even address the fact that we still have Robert Royal and no real #2 receiver cuz I'm hoping the additional protection will allow those guys to step up. But the D hasn't been addressed at all....

[Dr. Lecter]

Correct, we disagree in just about every opinion of this team.

Unfortunately for your side of this argument, the facts line up on mine.

;)

When we post a winning season, or even more, make the playoffs, please nudge me awake.

And don't blame me for this mess either. It is what it is based on the decisions of the owner of the team.

I will leave you with one question however Lechter, and one question only; let's see if you have the gumption to answer it, and it alone, directly.

Q: Ralph's been crying up a storm about not having the money to spend. He's stated that he/the Bills just can't do it. So where did the money for the record spending come from this year?

There are no facts on what has yet to happen. :D And I have shown you several facts.

And who blamed you for the mess????

As for the question, if one listens to Ralph much of what he has said is that the NFL is HEADING in a bad direction. He never said he had no money to spend.He also did avoid the insane bonus amounts (i.e. Nate). And he said money must be spent wisely (avoiding guys like Fletcher who are on the trailing end of their career).

Now a question for you (I probably could find it, but am lazy and need to get some work done): What did you feel the Bills record would be last season?

As for gumption, since this is a message board, it does not take much.

[OpIv37]

"Addressing" it and addressing it well are two different things. Yes, we addressed it, but only a certain subset of Bills fans seem to think we either got great value or truly upgraded our lines by a huge amount.

it's the one area on this team that will be better than last year. How much better remains to be seen, but at least they did SOMETHING. We did NOTHING on the other side of the ball yet somehow people still have confidence that this will be a good season...

[justasportsfan]

You're happy with them presumably?


the offseason isn't finished. the draft isn't here yet. I will wait before I crucify them.

People can be such hypocrites.ya'll blast TD when he kept making big splashes in fa that bore no results. Marv does the opposite that had better results than expected and it's a problem again? whatever dude. You ,Moran and Op are nothing but whiners. ;)

[Dr. Lecter]

where did I say anything even remotely like that?

All I hear is "give it time- marv's only been there for a year". Well, that doesn't make 7 years of losing (with an 8th looming on the horizon) any easier to swallow.

I agree it does not make it easier to swallow. But to say you don't care he only has been here a year, is not fair to him.

[patmoran2006]

I'm gonna have a major mancrush on Marv if he continues to make his critics look like the fools he's proven them to be so far.
how has he made any critic look like a fool? Because we improved on last year's record? How much WORSE could we have been than we were in 2005?

[Statman]

Smith was bemoaning the losses of Fletcher, Clements and McGahee, while never mentioning our additions to the O-Line.

Like many around the country, he has Willis mistaken for a good NFL running back, and doesn't realize Flether's liabilities. He fails to understand that you sometimes need to clean house - particularly when you have a lot of trash - before you can get better.
They were good moves, or non-moves I suppose, JR. But that still leaves holes.

The problem is that it now appears that we are on the brink of yet another two-three year rebuild when that was never in the cards.

IMO, if Levy and Co. really wanted to rebuild, then they should have started last season by trading McGahee while he still had some decent value. Instead, and we did well, but we merely got a pair of 3rds when we could have had a 1st easily. But hey, I guess "the experts" didn't quite see in McGahee, or perhaps not see, what some of us did/didn't.

They also could have traded Fletcher if they really thought he wasn't good. Or let Clements walk last year. Etc.

Obviously they believed, again, "the experts," that this team was far better than it was rendering their abilities questionable. Their abilities both in assessment of the existing team as well as players brought on board, as well as their abilities to perform with the tools at their disposal on the field.

Your comments are valid. What's not valid is this crew all of a sudden crying, or feigning, "rebuild" of a two-plus year variety when they came storming into OBD on a pedestal of the team's savior(s) and that all would be fully corrected within a season or two.

Or have we forgotten all of Levy and Jauron's promises last year when they came to town?

[OpIv37]

the offseason isn't finished. the draft isn't here yet. I will wait before I crucify them.

People can be such hypocrites.ya'll blast TD when he kept making big splashes in fa that bore no results. Marv does the opposite that had better results than expected and it's a problem again? whatever dude. You ,Moran and Op are nothing but whiners. ;)

how about this: middle-to-big splashes in FA that DO yield results? You keep going back to this big name thing- it's about PRODUCTION. So far, Marv managed to achieve mediocrity for cheaper than TD was able to achieve mediocrity. We have several glaring holes on D and you expect us just to be able to fill them in the draft? Please. By the time we fill all those holes in the draft, we'll have a bunch of new holes from guys either getting old or leaving via FA. At some point you have to bring in talent (and I don't necessarily mean big names- I mean guys who get the job done on the field).

[BleedinGreenNC]

Who do you think will be the main back for you guys?

[ublinkwescore]

how has he made any critic look like a fool? Because we improved on last year's record? How much WORSE could we have been than we were in 2005?

who has had a more successful draft than we did last year?

no one - you can try to argue, but I seriously doubt any one has had as many of their rookies start as we did as many games as we did last season.

just wait til you see what this line is capable of with McNally's coaching.

I personally credit McNally for turning Jason Peters into a pro-bowl quality left tackle.

[Earthquake Enyart]

how about this: middle-to-big splashes in FA that DO yield results? You keep going back to this big name thing- it's about PRODUCTION. So far, Marv managed to achieve mediocrity for cheaper than TD was able to achieve mediocrity. We have several glaring holes on D and you expect us just to be able to fill them in the draft? Please. By the time we fill all those holes in the draft, we'll have a bunch of new holes from guys either getting old or leaving via FA. At some point you have to bring in talent (and I don't necessarily mean big names- I mean guys who get the job done on the field).
The whole thing is based on drafting as well as we did last year. If we have any klunker drafts, it will hurt us for years, like the Butler Flower's draft year.

[OpIv37]

no one - you can try to argue, but I seriously doubt any one has had as many of their rookies start as we did as many games as we did last season.


rookies STARTING is one thing- rookies PERFORMING is another thing. Yeah, it's good that we were able to get these guys experience, but anyone can throw a bunch of rookies on the field and finish 27th against the run.

[ublinkwescore]

how has he made any critic look like a fool? Because we improved on last year's record? How much WORSE could we have been than we were in 2005?

wasn't there also a very wide concensus on here that we could very well end up with fewer than the 5 wins we got under Mularkey in his last year?

did we not play the league's toughest schedule last year - and finish a game under .500?

[ublinkwescore]

rookies STARTING is one thing- rookies PERFORMING is another thing. Yeah, it's good that we were able to get these guys experience, but anyone can throw a bunch of rookies on the field and finish 27th against the run.

and 7th against the pass?

[Statman]

What did you feel the Bills record would be last season?
I figured that they wouldn't win more than five games. But if you want to be fair with me, then please note that I, along with 100% of everyone else covering the NFL, had the Fins penciled in to take two from us and be far better than they were.

Had someone told me that they would suck and be among the worst teams in the league I would have added two more wins to our "no more than" total for a "no more than 7."

How many did you think we'd win? Now be honest.

Did you make any predictions otherwise on the boards as to how we would perform? How did those stack up. If I had made any they would have matched my predictions exceptionally well.

It's funny though, you'd likely argue that "stats are meaningless," or "for losers" or something of that variety, and you've already argued against "onesy" types of arguments. Yet, you cite simple "wins," the 7 of them, a whopping 2-game "improvement" as the sum total of it all in while utterly ignoring all the ways that the team actually got worse, particularly in the areas where "the experts" tried the hardest and spent the most money, meaning along our DL where we acquired 3 defensive tackles for three draft picks and a very sizeable amount of money.

Don't you find that to be hypocritical?

[TacklingDummy]

I'm gonna have a major mancrush on Marv if he continues to make his critics look like the fools he's proven them to be so far.

I like Whitner.

With that being said.

The only person Marv made look like a fool last year with picking Whitner at #8 is Marv.

[Earthquake Enyart]

and 7th against the pass?
Teams that suck against the run often rank high against the pass, because teams just don't have to throw the ball against them.

[Statman]

and 7th against the pass?
It's called the cover 2.

Also, why pass when you can run and gain nearly five yards per carry against us.

Look at the big picture.

[Mr. Pink]

who has had a more successful draft than we did last year?

no one - you can try to argue, but I seriously doubt any one has had as many of their rookies start as we did as many games as we did last season.

just wait til you see what this line is capable of with McNally's coaching.

I personally credit McNally for turning Jason Peters into a pro-bowl quality left tackle.


Two teams instantly stand out...The Jets and Saints.

Jets-Brick, Mangold, Washington

Saints-Bush to their 7th rounder Colston

[OpIv37]

and 7th against the pass?

why would teams pass on us when they can kill the clock by running? This stat is skewed by our lack of run D.

[Statman]

I like Whitner.

With that being said.

The only person Marv made look like a fool last year with picking Whitner at #8 is Marv.
Whitner wasn't even among the top six safeties drafted in the league last year in spite of being the 2nd one taken. Numerous ones, drafted in rounds 4-6 too, outperformed him.

So in hindsight, it clearly wasn't a great move, especially since many thought he'd have been there with a trade down.

[TacklingDummy]

and 7th against the pass?

The Book on the Bills last year was...

When Bills on offense: Stop McGahee and force a struggling QB to beat them.

When Bills on Defense: Why pass? Run, run, run. They suck at stopping the run. I miss Pat Williams.

[Dr. Lecter]

I figured that they wouldn't win more than five games. But if you want to be fair with me, then please note that I, along with 100% of everyone else covering the NFL, had the Fins penciled in to take two from us and be far better than they were.

Had someone told me that they would suck and be among the worst teams in the league I would have added two more wins to our "no more than" total for a "no more than 7."

How many did you think we'd win? Now be honest.

Did you make any predictions otherwise on the boards as to how we would perform? How did those stack up. If I had made any they would have matched my predictions exceptionally well.

It's funny though, you'd likely argue that "stats are meaningless," or "for losers" or something of that variety, and you've already argued against "onesy" types of arguments. Yet, you cite simple "wins," the 7 of them, a whopping 2-game "improvement" as the sum total of it all in while utterly ignoring all the ways that the team actually got worse, particularly in the areas where "the experts" tried the hardest and spent the most money, meaning along our DL where we acquired 3 defensive tackles for three draft picks and a very sizeable amount of money.

Don't you find that to be hypocritical?

First, I would never say stats are meaningless. It would my degree worthless.

Second, I was looking for an approximate 500 record (+/- 1 game), as well as late season improvement.

But the point is not about accuracy of predictions. It is about extreme pessimism and making assumptions about "horrible" moves made.

And yes, the defense struggled. They had 3 new DT's. You keep ignoring that 2 of them were rookies and one was injured. So last year should be the worst of it.

The Bills had one of the youngest average ages last year. Young players (generally) improve. They also had 20+ new players on the roster from the TD era.

This project is not a one year or even two year plan.

[Statman]

who has had a more successful draft than we did last year?

no one - you can try to argue, but I seriously doubt any one has had as many of their rookies start as we did as many games as we did last season.

just wait til you see what this line is capable of with McNally's coaching.

I personally credit McNally for turning Jason Peters into a pro-bowl quality left tackle.
You, and too many others, equate "being good" with things such as "starting" and simple "wins" beyond "wins over prior years."

A two game improvement in wins due to the faltering of a divisional foe is nothing to get excited about.

Starting rookies is fine, but the question should be, again, should, is whether they played well and showed promise of the type that impact players bring.

We've had a team full of mediocre players for a decade now and it's getting worse as time goes on. Pennington started why, because he was so great? No, because we were getting piss poor performance from Gandy who had to move to G because he sucked so bad, and after the same arguments and excitement being put forth when we signed him just as a "by the way."

Whitner started why, because Bowen, another Levy acquisition sucked and got hurt. Was Whitner superb? No. In fact, again, factually, he didn't outperform another good half-dozen safeties drafted lower than him. He shows promise, enough to cause us to not have to worry about the position. But he certainly didn't reveal that he's the next Ronnie Lott or anything even remotely close to it.

Simpson started and started well, and IMO was our best draft pick.

Williams started too, but what did he bring? As a tackle supposedly brought on board to fit this "disruptive" defense, he didn't log a single sack and was rarely found in the offensive backfield. So yes, he too started, but so what.

Ellison? Ellison also "started" later in the season, but dang if everyone isn't entireliy overrating his contributions too. Did he make an impact in any single game? Not that I saw other than intercepting a pass that most of us could have caught in street clothes and leather soled shoes.

You overrate "starting." The Raiders had 22 starters too among them many rookies.

[TigerJ]

The problem is that we all trusted them on the McCargo trade up, the Tripplett acquisition, the Royal signing, the Price signing, the Fowler pickup, and our draft last year which other than for Whitner who didn't perform to 8th overall standards (yet at least), or Simpson, did not produce much in the way of impact or promise for impact.

We've been hearing this song and dance about "trusting the 'experts' and those that 'know better' than we do," etc. for a long time. The onus is really no longer on us as fans to extend our further benefits of the doubt, it is squarely on the organiztion to prove to us fans that hiring Marv was a good call, that Marv's acquisition of Jauron was a good call, and that Wilson's brain is still functioning on at least half power.

They can prove that any season by posting a winning record. Anything short of that and you and everyone else can call for more seasons of waiting to see what the final product is, calls for futher patience when it's not at all warranted given their own positions at the time of their own hirings, and general further excuses for more risky decisions by this team.

We owe them nothing. They owe us a decent team, sound decision making, good drafting, and all around good management. Instead we get decisions that need defenses such as the one you just fronted.

Sorry, but the good fans of the Bills deserve better, much better!

The fact that that schtick even flies anymore is amazing.

Boy, do you and I see last season differently. I see a GM who brought in a new head coach who brought in a nearly entirely different coaching staff, a new offensive system, a new defensive system and won two more games against the toughest schedule in the league, and were far more competitive down the stretch when the players were finally getting comfortable with the new systems. I see a safety in Donte Whitner who performed better than three quarters of the first round picks in last year's draft. Want to ask the Dolphins how their first round safety performed? McCargo got hurt. Football is a tough game. You can't judge GMs on the performance of players who got hurt unless they sign or draft a player with a long injury history. McCargo doesn't have that. You can't judge a player whose university doesn't let him attend mini-camp and then whose mother died (in Youboty) or the GM who drafted him. You grade those draft picks as incomplete. The rest of the draft was far better than anyone gave the Bills credit for last April. Pennington, Ellison, and Williams all played better than people have a right to expect for Day 2 draft picks. You are more of a glass half empty kind of guy than Op ever thought of being, I guess.

[Dr. Lecter]

Whitner wasn't even among the top six safeties drafted in the league last year in spite of being the 2nd one taken. Numerous ones, drafted in rounds 4-6 too, outperformed him.

So in hindsight, it clearly wasn't a great move, especially since many thought he'd have been there with a trade down.

Hindsight is great.

Every team, except NO, was terrible because they passed on Colston.

And since the draft is one year old, nobody knows where Whitner will stack up in three years.

And who are the other rookie safeties that were better?

[ublinkwescore]

It's called the cover 2.

Also, why pass when you can run and gain nearly five yards per carry against us.

Look at the big picture.

Woo hoo, I get to call major BS on this because we faced more pass plays than we did run plays - it's true, look it up.

[gr8slayer]

Hindsight is great.

Every team, except NO, was terrible because they passed on Colston.

And since the draft is one year old, nobody knows where Whitner will stack up in three years.

And who are the other rookie safeties that were better?
Landry is the only one I can think of.

[ublinkwescore]

The Book on the Bills last year was...

When Bills on offense: Stop McGahee and force a struggling QB to beat them.

When Bills on Defense: Why pass? Run, run, run. They suck at stopping the run. I miss Pat Williams.

Dude, shut up already - you are either the world's dumbest football fan, or you are just trying to instigate crap - no one on here takes you seriously - I swear if skooby wants to get out of the red, all he has to do is bash you on a regular basis - it's been great for my rep.

[TacklingDummy]

And who are the other rookie safeties that were better?

I wouldn't have picked a safety.

The Bills picked Whitner #8 and traded up to #26 to get McCargo.

They probably could have drafted at #8 Haloti Ngata and traded up to #26 and still have picked Whitner.

[TacklingDummy]

Dude, shut up already - you are either the world's dumbest football fan, or you are just trying to instigate crap - no one on here takes you seriously - I swear if skooby wants to get out of the red, all he has to do is bash you on a regular basis - it's been great for my rep.

Stay on topic or :stfu: Stop trying to turn this into a pissin match thread, as usual. Thank you. Please don't respond to this. This is a good thread and it doesn't need your crap started in it. Thanks.

[ublinkwescore]

Hindsight is great.

Every team, except NO, was terrible because they passed on Colston.

And since the draft is one year old, nobody knows where Whitner will stack up in three years.

And who are the other rookie safeties that were better?

that's a very good question - I doubt we'll ever get an answer.

Except for some would be scrub in Baltimore who happens to play on a D where the tackles are practically gift wrapped, and he's getting fat on deflected balls.

[gr8slayer]

I wouldn't have picked a safety.

The Bills picked Whitner #8 and traded up to #26 to get McCargo.

They probably could have drafted at #8 Haloti Ngata and traded up to #26 and still have picked Whitner.
I'm not sure that fat boy would not have fit into what Jauron is trying to do with the Defense.

[ublinkwescore]

Can I just lol every time you groan me since you can't rep at all?

[User Manuel]

[quote=Lawesome97]



As for the Jets and Dolphins if either teams fans are thrilled with their offseason, well, they will be sadly disappointed next season.



I really dont see how the Jet's fans can be disappointed, who did we have that was a dominant back last year? We ran the running back by committee, i am happy as hell that we have a feature back now, now im saying that we are going to the SB, but we have done some key things to improve.

What would you be saying if you got the same deal for Jones?

I can't argue your point, but Smith was portraying the idea that the JETs,
Dolphins and Pats had this so far superlative off-season while the Bills were a comedy of errors. I dont mean it as disrespect towards the Jets.

As for Jones I really liked that move for you guys. I think the Bears made a bad mistake, Jones is a true Pro and will help tremendously. That being said the Jets have alot of work left to do, similar to the Bills and Dolphins.

[Statman]

First, I would never say stats are meaningless. It would my degree worthless.

Second, I was looking for an approximate 500 record (+/- 1 game), as well as late season improvement.

But the point is not about accuracy of predictions. It is about extreme pessimism and making assumptions about "horrible" moves made.

And yes, the defense struggled. They had 3 new DT's. You keep ignoring that 2 of them were rookies and one was injured. So last year should be the worst of it.

The Bills had one of the youngest average ages last year. Young players (generally) improve. They also had 20+ new players on the roster from the TD era.

This project is not a one year or even two year plan.

Well, we'll see. But it's funny that every season we sit here saying the same exact thing, "we'll see" after an absymal attempt the year prior.

Frankly given the way this team has been managed from the top down, extreme pessimism is warranted. You sit here and post among perhaps a hundred, if that, posters, an extremely thin slice of the entirety of Bills' fandom. Most fans in Buffalo have thrown up their hands in disgust. You don't simply post four of seven league-wide non-sellouts b/c the fans are hyped up on the team.

You say that I ignore the fact that two of our DTs were rookies. No, I don't. But what does it say when you trade away two day one picks, really good ones that we could have still gotten many players that did in fact make an impact in the league for other teams, for a player that not unpredictably, to anyone "pessimistic enough," suffers the same injury that he just suffered and one for which the recurrence of such was extremely high, and then that player shows absolutely nothing while on the field in whatever action he sees?

At that kind of draft position and a trade up to boot, you expect more than McCargo brought, even as a rookie.

As to Williams, expectations were lower, but the point stands, that we drafted him in the 5th, and sure, he may become the next Kevin Williams, but that's purely speculation since he too showed nothing last season other than perhaps that he's a solid backup.

So you say that I'm pessimistic, but I'm simply reacting to the facts of what happened last year and not making unfounded assumptions that everyone that offered mediocre play last year as a "starter" will all of a sudden blossom into the kind of player that actually makes a team better by his presence on the field. If you want to take that leap of faith for all of our rookie starters, feel free.

I just don't think that it's wise, honest, or a good bet.

Yes, the Bills had a lot of young players on the team last year. And in full agreement with you most improve. But improve to what extent? To the extent that Stamer, Haggan, Anderson, Everett, Preston, King, Sobieski, Wire, Denney (another trade up), etc. improved?

"Improvement" is relative. We technically and on paper "improved" by two wins last year. Do you want to bet the farm that we match that again this year? I don't think so, at least not as of yet.

So just because you say "improve," "improvement" can mean anything from becoming a solid role player, special teams player, or solid backup, to becoming an impact player. Sure, players can also improve to the level of becoming an impact player, which frankly, is exactly what this team needs, but which players last year showed us flashes of doing that?

McCargo certainly didn't.
Whitner may have.
Simpson may have. Both have some work to do, quite a bit in fact given that their draftee peers outshone them.
Williams didn't.
Ellison didn't.
Pennington didn't.

Who else started or even played much? Youboty, and the reasons don't matter, barely played for most of the season. Butler was apparently a huge bust. Who cares about Merz or other 7th rounders.

But you say that they're going to improve almost as if it's a guarantee that they'll all step up to become forces at their positions, yet without much evidence that they'll even be above average starters let alone impact players in this league, and again, apart from Whitner and Simpson, but who also, again, showed that they'll likely both be good starters, but their status as impact players is out still.

As well, players sometimes play their best seasons as rookies too. As you said, most improve, which stands to reason, but some don't.

[User Manuel]

Who do you think will be the main back for you guys?

I still think it will be a combo of Reuben Droughns and a rookie.

[TacklingDummy]

Like I've said before..the average Bills fan/NFL fan sees the Bills losing McGahee, Clements, Fletcher and are shopping Spikes.

We sign guys like Whittle, Wire, Lindell, Williams, Walker, Kelsey, and Dockery.

You try telling the average fan that the Bills have had anything but a bad off-season so far.

[gr8slayer]

BTW TD I know for a fact that Whitner would not have been there at 26. Parcells said they were hoping he would have fell to the Cowboys so they could take him.

[ublinkwescore]

The Book on the Bills last year was...

When Bills on offense: Stop McGahee and force a struggling QB to beat them.

When Bills on Defense: Why pass? Run, run, run. They suck at stopping the run. I miss Pat Williams.

again, major BS - we faced more pass plays ironically than running plays.

[gr8slayer]

Like I've said before..the average Bills fan/NFL fan sees the Bills losing McGahee, Clements, Fletcher and are shopping Spikes.

We sign guys like Whittle, Wire, Lindell, Williams, Walker, Kelsey, and Dockery.

You try telling the average fan that the Bills have had anything but a bad off-season so far.
How is upgrading the worst part of your team a bad thing? Maybe Losman won't "suck so much" now that he has some better linemen.

Wire was a must, he is our ST captain and a damn good one at that.

[Statman]

Hindsight is great.

Every team, except NO, was terrible because they passed on Colston.

And since the draft is one year old, nobody knows where Whitner will stack up in three years.

And who are the other rookie safeties that were better?
OK, after the tantrum part of that post, if you don't know the safeties that are better, as rookies, then perhaps that explains your grossly inflated view of your own team.

In order to understand how good your own team is, you need the SWOTs as they pertain to your competitors.

I'll leave that exercise for you to conduct. I've done it ad nauseum in the circles of the very well trodden knowledgeables about the NFL that I keep and believe me, if anything they view Whitner not evan as good as I do.

That's it for me on this thread by the way.

Nice chattin' with you.

[gr8slayer]

OK, after the tantrum part of that post, if you don't know the safeties that are better, as rookies, then perhaps that explains your grossly inflated view of your own team.

In order to understand how good your own team is, you need the SWOTs as they pertain to your competitors.

I'll leave that exercise for you to conduct. I've done it ad nauseum in the circles of the very well trodden knowledgeables about the NFL that I keep and believe me, if anything they view Whitner not evan as good as I do.

That's it for me on this thread by the way.

Nice chattin' with you.
Your just pissed off because he called you out on something and you can't answer it.

[TacklingDummy]

How is upgrading the worst part of your team a bad thing? Maybe Losman won't "suck so much" now that he has some better linemen.

Wire was a must, he is our ST captain and a damn good one at that.

I didn't say it was. But to the average fan (Michael Smith) that move means next to nothing. What he sees is McGahee, Fletcher, Clements all gone and Spikes could soon be following.

"better linemen": Dockery will work out. Whittle and Walker could be the next Reyes and Villarail.

[ublinkwescore]

OK, after the tantrum part of that post, if you don't know the safeties that are better, as rookies, then perhaps that explains your grossly inflated view of your own team.

In order to understand how good your own team is, you need the SWOTs as they pertain to your competitors.

I'll leave that exercise for you to conduct. I've done it ad nauseum in the circles of the very well trodden knowledgeables about the NFL that I keep and believe me, if anything they view Whitner not evan as good as I do.

That's it for me on this thread by the way.

Nice chattin' with you.

I don't know which safeties were better statistically than Whitner either - sue me.

or better yet, prove to us that you do, or STFU.

[ublinkwescore]

Your just pissed off because he called you out on something and you can't answer it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to gr8slayer again.

[gr8slayer]

I didn't say it was. But to the average fan (Michael Smith) that move means next to nothing. What he sees is McGahee, Fletcher, Clements all gone and Spikes could soon be following.

"better linemen": Dockery will work out. Whittle and Walker could be the next Reyes and Villarail.
Or they could be the next Pace and Hutch. Unlikely but you never know, some guy change their style when they change teams and it just works out for them. You must admit that on the offensive side of the line were much better now than we were this time last year.

[ublinkwescore]

OK, after the tantrum part of that post, if you don't know the safeties that are better, as rookies, then perhaps that explains your grossly inflated view of your own team.

In order to understand how good your own team is, you need the SWOTs as they pertain to your competitors.

I'll leave that exercise for you to conduct. I've done it ad nauseum in the circles of the very well trodden knowledgeables about the NFL that I keep and believe me, if anything they view Whitner not evan as good as I do.

That's it for me on this thread by the way.

Nice chattin' with you.

Enjoy being in the green pal - I can tell it won't last.

[camelcowboy]

I'll judge their offseason after the draft which is a huge part of it. But saying that we lost McGahee, Fletcher, Clements, its going to be hard to plug holes but good ridance every player on that list has been apart of this team for years and what did they help us accomplish? Im glad we're moving in a different direction.

[gr8slayer]

I'll judge their offseason after the draft which is a huge part of it. But saying that we lost McGahee, Fletcher, Clements, its going to be hard to plug holes but good ridance every player on that list has been apart of this team for years and what did they help us accomplish? Im glad we're moving in a different direction.
I completely agree minus Fletch, I thought he was a great leader.

[TedMock]

Whitner may have.
Simpson may have. Both have some work to do, quite a bit in fact given that their draftee peers outshone them.


I'm just curious. Why do you say their peers outshone them? I'm just wondering if you're basing it on stats, intangibles, etc. I don't necessarily agree with you in all apects, so I'm trying to see your point of view on this. I don't know what rookie safties really drastically outplayed them, but I'm sure they're out there.

I think Simpson could prove to be a steal, but he needs a little work with his recognition skills as he's been out of position now and then. However, he got better in that arena as the year went on and he appears to be very athletic. Time should fix his problems pretty fast.

As for Whitner, I think he played extremely well given the circumstances. Stats for a SS are tough to measure just because of the nature of the position, but he certainly held his own. He was 5th amongst all defensive backs in tackles (the only rookie that high), he had an interception and he had 5 passes defensed. I'd like to see more forced fumble from him because I don't believe he had any. Overall, I think he played very well especially in coming up and saving touchdown runs that our less-than-stellar D-line was willing to give up. He's an excellent tackler and seems to be in position more often than not.

[TacklingDummy]

. You must admit that on the offensive side of the line were much better now than we were this time last year.

I agree.

No more excuses for JP. Its put up or shut up time.

[camelcowboy]

I completely agree minus Fletch, I thought he was a great leader. No doubt, Fletch was a warrior, but he was not worth the dough washington threw at him. I really think Jauron is looking for a "urlacher type" line backer thats why i think they may have Willis in their sites.

Draft Willis trade back up grab lynch or Bush that would excite me.

[madness]

How is upgrading the worst part of your team a bad thing? Maybe Losman won't "suck so much" now that he has some better linemen.

Wire was a must, he is our ST captain and a damn good one at that.

And we didn't just upgrade the line. It upgrades practically the whole damn team including the defense. It's been said by few of you that Indy ran the Tampa 2 so effectively because of their offense's ability to sustain long drives. Guess what Marv just helped our offense do?

"It was an area that we felt was very important for us to improve," general manager Marv Levy said. "It has affect on other positions as well. It certainly enhances your running game. It enhances your passing protection. It helps your defense in many ways."

[feelthepain]

Never mind, I just saw the subtitle.

How does he grade the offseason when it is only partially over?

Obviously he means so far!

[OpIv37]

And we didn't just upgrade the line. It upgrades practically the whole damn team including the defense. It's been said by few of you that Indy ran the Tampa 2 so effectively because of their offense's ability to sustain long drives. Guess what Marv just helped our offense do?

"It was an area that we felt was very important for us to improve," general manager Marv Levy said. "It has affect on other positions as well. It certainly enhances your running game. It enhances your passing protection. It helps your defense in many ways."

and none of it will matter if our D can't get off the field cuz they can't stop the run.

[Statman]

I'm just curious. Why do you say their peers outshone them? I'm just wondering if you're basing it on stats, intangibles, etc. I don't necessarily agree with you in all apects, so I'm trying to see your point of view on this. I don't know what rookie safties really drastically outplayed them, but I'm sure they're out there.

I think Simpson could prove to be a steal, but he needs a little work with his recognition skills as he's been out of position now and then. However, he got better in that arena as the year went on and he appears to be very athletic. Time should fix his problems pretty fast.

As for Whitner, I think he played extremely well given the circumstances. Stats for a SS are tough to measure just because of the nature of the position, but he certainly held his own. He was 5th amongst all defensive backs in tackles (the only rookie that high), he had an interception and he had 5 passes defensed. I'd like to see more forced fumble from him because I don't believe he had any. Overall, I think he played very well especially in coming up and saving touchdown runs that our less-than-stellar D-line was willing to give up. He's an excellent tackler and seems to be in position more often than not.

Hey Ted, Lechter,

I wasn't going to post again, and this will be my last. I was looking for my last post to Lechter but bumped into this one and thought I would kill two birds with one stone.

My comments on Whitner have nothing to do with notions that he's good, it is, at least to me, purely a question of value in the draft. In the draft you must grab what you can when you can get it.

A number of safeties performed, and I should have said this earlier, but equal to or better than Whitner, not necessarily better than. Two of them started in the Super Bowl for opposing teams. A third Super Bowl starter was a second year man that had a rookie year better than Whitner's. That's both starting SSs in the SB this year for starters.

But those that did generally came from rounds 4-6. That's my point.

With the 8th overall selection, yes, you definitely need to get a solid starter, but the expectations are for an impact player an it's not a reach to suggest that for picks among the top 10 or 15 that you should really get a player that actually becomes an impact player later in his rookie season if not immediately, particularly for defenders where raw talent (speed, agility, size, etc.) are often primary factors in one's success vice things such as technique for offensivelinemen, or the ability of WRs to break jams at the line of scrimmage and such against wiser DBs.

Either way, I'm not sure there's anyone out there suggesting that Whitner played to impact player levels this past season and presumably you don't either.

So it boils down to value in part too.

I will say this, that I'd take either of the two Super Bowl starting SSs over Whitner if they were offered in a straight up trade. Neither came from a big time school, in fact both haled from smaller ones. Drafted in rounds 2 and 6 I believe. So "Whitner-like" talent is and has typically been available later in drafts for teams that have good scouting. Do we have that?

Anyway, that truly is my last post on this. Thanks.

[BleedinGreenNC]

[quote=BleedinGreenNC]

I can't argue your point, but Smith was portraying the idea that the JETs,
Dolphins and Pats had this so far superlative off-season while the Bills were a comedy of errors. I dont mean it as disrespect towards the Jets.

As for Jones I really liked that move for you guys. I think the Bears made a bad mistake, Jones is a true Pro and will help tremendously. That being said the Jets have alot of work left to do, similar to the Bills and Dolphins.

No offense taken at all! We definitely have a lot more work to do, but like i said, i think that you have improved more than people think. Once JP got into a rythym, he was picking people apart, now that your going to have a stronger O-Line, he is only going to get better.

[Dr. Lecter]

OK, after the tantrum part of that post, if you don't know the safeties that are better, as rookies, then perhaps that explains your grossly inflated view of your own team.

Nice chattin' with you.

Nice chattin' with you too, despite the tantrum comments. Maybe we can have more chats at tailgates this year.

I'll just add this, which is more of a response to your other post:

Starting in the Super Bowl does not make the other safeties better.

[madness]

and none of it will matter if our D can't get off the field cuz they can't stop the run.

Good thing they have until to training camp starts to stop the run. Anderson hasn't been resigned and McCargo will be healthy. This in itself is already a start.

I'm curious, can anybody tell me how many DT's have been signed so far and if they are in the top 5 projected FA DTs?

[BleedinGreenNC]

I still think it will be a combo of Reuben Droughns and a rookie.

I think that Droughns can be a good back in the right system, he would fit in nice with your offense, maybe not the runner that Willis is, but a back that would compliment JP, and i would consider him a better blocking back than Willis.

[IAG]

The Bills could have the first or second pick in the draft next year. Just think what the players are thinking in that locker room come this summer...The Buffalo Bills: Steep and Cheap.

[OpIv37]

Good thing they have until to training camp starts to stop the run. Anderson hasn't been resigned and McCargo will be healthy. This in itself is already a start.

I'm curious, can anybody tell me how many DT's have been signed so far and if they are in the top 5 projected FA DTs?

Anderson's been tendered so he'll at least be in camp :puke:

Who are we going to get between now and camp that might actually help?

As far as McCargo, he MIGHT be healthy- he's had the same injury two years in a row. And he didn't exactly look great when he did play. However, I will say this: anything that keeps Anderson off the field is a good thing.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think this was a fun thread.

Seriously.

[madness]

Anderson's been tendered so he'll at least be in camp :puke:

Who are we going to get between now and camp that might actually help?

As far as McCargo, he MIGHT be healthy- he's had the same injury two years in a row. And he didn't exactly look great when he did play. However, I will say this: anything that keeps Anderson off the field is a good thing.

I will say we are at least one DT away. I'd like to see us sign Ian Scott. He's a young vet that's comes from the same type of rotation system.

[gr8slayer]

I agree.

No more excuses for JP. Its put up or shut up time.
I agree 100%

[Meathead]

strife is abuldant when one does not trust in The Marv

[camelcowboy]

I will say we are at least one DT away. I'd like to see us sign Ian Scott. He's a young vet that's comes from the same type of rotation system.

Yep and he's still on the market

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think this was a fun thread.

Seriously.
Yep a bunch of Know it alls telling us we have no chance before the free agency period is even over not to mention the draft. :puke:

[OpIv37]

Yep a bunch of Know it alls telling us we have no chance before the free agency period is even over not to mention the draft. :puke:

I'm sick of this "wait for the draft" mentality. We had 6 different rookies play on D last year and it got us to 7-9. We need immediate help and that comes from experienced players. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting better results.

Note to justa: "experienced players" is not necessarily the same as "big name FAs"

oh, and where are the FA defenders that haven't even BEEN to buffalo yet?

[DynaPaul]

Now we all know that article was ghost written by Tom "The Master Poker Player" Donahoe.

[ublinkwescore]

I agree.

No more excuses for JP. Its put up or shut up time.

I don't know why you even bother posting that - you and I both know it's crap - no matter how well he does, you're still gonna bash him - either out of blind hatred, or for the sake of instigating crap.

[ublinkwescore]

I'm sick of this "wait for the draft" mentality. We had 6 different rookies play on D last year and it got us to 7-9. We need immediate help and that comes from experienced players. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting better results.

Note to justa: "experienced players" is not necessarily the same as "big name FAs"

oh, and where are the FA defenders that haven't even BEEN to buffalo yet?

go get some midol or something.

[ublinkwescore]

Like I've said before..the average Bills fan/NFL fan sees the Bills losing McGahee, Clements, Fletcher and are shopping Spikes.

We sign guys like Whittle, Wire, Lindell, Williams, Walker, Kelsey, and Dockery.

You try telling the average fan that the Bills have had anything but a bad off-season so far.

who the hell are you to speak for the average Bills fan?

You're not even a fan yourself.

[OpIv37]

go get some midol or something.

if you're satisfied with only "upgrading" our D through the draft, I hope you're expecting another 7 win season because that's where we're headed.

[ublinkwescore]

if you're satisfied with only "upgrading" our D through the draft, I hope you're expecting another 7 win season because that's where we're headed.

So by your thinking, it's completely absurd to think that Kyle Williams has hit his ceiling already, after just one year in the league - the DT we need couldn't possibly at all be on this roster already?

It's completely absurd to think that Whitner and Simpson who were at the worst SOLID won't show improvement and increased chemistry?

Crowell is back, and we've got the league's leading sacker from last season back...

Did I mention we upgraded our OL - which WILL help our O stay on the field and take pressure off our D.

football is a team game that requires balance - Our O last season (early in the season BTW) didn't do our D any favors until the coaching staff shuffled our Oline around.

it's your constant assumption that the worst WILL happen that gets tragically old.

And don't try to deny it - "I hope you're expecting another 7 win season because that's where we're headed."

You don't know any better than any one else on this board how we'll finish.

You just try extremely hard to convince people you know beyond all doubt what you're talking about and try to throw in big words that you learned while in college to make yourself feel elite.

I'm done.

[jmb1099]

Oh my God we have holes to fill????
Look no offense to those of you who want the rest of us to drown ourselves but get over it. You all cried for years that the o-line was the main concern and that we never address the line and if we fixed the line things would be different and so what happened? We addressed the line. So you all took a week off of declaring the end of the world, but a week of fa has passed and here we are again. The season is over, Ralph's a liar, Marv's a joke and suicide is on the way. Oh my God!
Simple trivia question... How many other teams have holes to fill or areas that need to be addressed? All of them, every single one including us.
So we need a rb...I've heard it mention time and time again on this board that rb is a low skill dime a dozen position. So that won't be a problem.
We need lb's and cb's...draft is nice and deep this year...shouldn't be a problem and we haven't even tapped last years draft talent yet in Youtboty
Dline... this is our greatest weakness by far. The wildcard will be McCargo's foot.
Bottom line: if we draft strong there is no reason to think that we can't at least be competitive this year

[Patti120]

After page 1 this became one of the worst threads ever. Goodnight

[Mad Bomber]

I don't understand the Langston Walker move.

His main strength is that he's apparently a decent run-blocker.

But he's awful in pass protection. He allowed an obscene 10 1/2 sacks last season. Which is putrid for a five year veteran at right tackle who generally faces second tier defensive ends.

10 1/2 sacks apparently was pretty good for that line, since the Raiders gave up 72 sacks last year.

The Raiders are a horribly coached team. Hopefully Marv and Co. saw something in him (physically the guy is a beast) and think that maybe McNally can spin this straw into gold...

...hopefully.

[YardRat]

Good thing they have until to training camp starts to stop the run. Anderson hasn't been resigned and McCargo will be healthy. This in itself is already a start.

I'm curious, can anybody tell me how many DT's have been signed so far and if they are in the top 5 projected FA DTs?

There are several still out there...

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>1</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Cory Redding (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2470217&yr=2007)</TD><TD>Fran.</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4/279</NOBR></TD><TD>Texas (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127465)</TD><TD>Detroit (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=116)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>2</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Robaire Smith (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2473263&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>7</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4/310</NOBR></TD><TD>Michigan State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127354)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>3</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Vonnie Holliday (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2448950&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>6-5/290</NOBR></TD><TD>North Carolina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127382)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=92)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=92)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>4</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Spencer Johnson (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2438235&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/286</NOBR></TD><TD>Auburn (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127218)</TD><TD>Minnesota (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=113)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>5</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Randy Starks (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2463899&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/307</NOBR></TD><TD>Maryland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127345)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=97)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>6</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Alfonso Boone (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2437862&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4.5/325</NOBR></TD><TD>Central State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=148100)</TD><TD>Chicago (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=115)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>7</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Michael Myers (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2475807&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/300</NOBR></TD><TD>Alabama (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127204)</TD><TD>Denver (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=103)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>8</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ron Edwards (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2477334&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/290</NOBR></TD><TD>Texas A&M (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127466)</TD><TD>Kansas City (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=104)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>9</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Keith Traylor (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2448946&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>16</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/337</NOBR></TD><TD>Central Oklahoma (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=128057)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=92)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=92)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>10</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Hollis Thomas (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2659896&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>11</TD><TD><NOBR>6-0/306</NOBR></TD><TD>Northern Illinois (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127548)</TD><TD>New Orleans (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=118)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>11</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Aubrayo Franklin (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2519695&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-1/320</NOBR></TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127461)</TD><TD>Baltimore (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=98)</TD><TD>San Francisco (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=121)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>12</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ian Scott (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2437927&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/302</NOBR></TD><TD>Florida (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127282)</TD><TD>Chicago (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=115)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>13</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Shaun Smith (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2472684&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/320</NOBR></TD><TD>South Carolina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127438)</TD><TD>Cincinnati (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=101)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>14</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rashad Moore (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2478888&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/324</NOBR></TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127461)</TD><TD>Oakland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=105)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>15</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Lional Dalton (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2973666&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>-/-</NOBR></TD><TD>Eastern Michigan (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127531)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>16</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Cedric Killings (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2973670&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>-/-</NOBR></TD><TD>Carson-Newman College (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=128124)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>17</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Dan Klecko (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2746839&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>5-11/275</NOBR></TD><TD>Temple (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127459)</TD><TD>Indianapolis (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=94)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff99" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>18</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rien Long (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2451447&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-6/302</NOBR></TD><TD>Washington State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127501)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=97)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=97)</TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>19</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ethan Kelley (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2445232&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/303</NOBR></TD><TD>Baylor (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127221)</TD><TD>Cleveland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=102)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>20</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rodney Leisle (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2474384&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/315</NOBR></TD><TD>UCLA (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127482)</TD><TD>New Orleans (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=118)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[jamze132]

Michael Smith, the basketball analyst. Since when did he become a football expert.
I have hated this guy from the time he started at ESPN. The guy is a joke and I can guarantee that he can't name 5 other Buffalo Bills outside of the guys we lost.

All the ESPN guys do is look at each teams ESPN.com homepage, see that so and so left and so and so came in and they make there assumptions. What a bunch of tools.

[ublinkwescore]

After page 1 this became one of the worst threads ever. Goodnight

I agree - I keep coming back to it because it's like watching a trainwreck - courtesy of Op and TD and Statman.

[OpIv37]

So by your thinking, it's completely absurd to think that Kyle Williams has hit his ceiling already, after just one year in the league - the DT we need couldn't possibly at all be on this roster already?

It's completely absurd to think that Whitner and Simpson who were at the worst SOLID won't show improvement and increased chemistry?

Crowell is back, and we've got the league's leading sacker from last season back...

Did I mention we upgraded our OL - which WILL help our O stay on the field and take pressure off our D.

football is a team game that requires balance - Our O last season (early in the season BTW) didn't do our D any favors until the coaching staff shuffled our Oline around.

it's your constant assumption that the worst WILL happen that gets tragically old.

And don't try to deny it - "I hope you're expecting another 7 win season because that's where we're headed."

You don't know any better than any one else on this board how we'll finish.

You just try extremely hard to convince people you know beyond all doubt what you're talking about and try to throw in big words that you learned while in college to make yourself feel elite.

I'm done.

In the future, I will try to maximize the use of monosyllabic words to assist you in comprehending my posts. oh, ****, I did it again. Hold on, let me re-write: "I'll try hard to use smaller words so you know what I mean. " Is that better?

While our young guys will improve, it's unreasonable to expect that one season of experience is all it takes to improve on the 27th ranked run D, especially since we lost two starters. Like I already said, Clements was highly overrated and Fletch had lost a step, but they're still better than the guys sitting on our bench. We need to upgrade our talent level on D and so far it's been completely ignored.

As far as Crowell goes, seriously, I like the guy. He's a solid player. But he's not anywhere close to the level of guys like Lance Briggs, Takeo (when healthy), Adalius Thomas, Cato June, etc. He's a good player who helps our D- just not the playmaker that we're missing on D.

[HAMMER]

In the future, I will try to maximize the use of monosyllabic words to assist you in comprehending my posts. oh, ****, I did it again. Hold on, let me re-write: "I'll try hard to use smaller words so you know what I mean. " Is that better?

While our young guys will improve, it's unreasonable to expect that one season of experience is all it takes to improve on the 27th ranked run D, especially since we lost two starters. Like I already said, Clements was highly overrated and Fletch had lost a step, but they're still better than the guys sitting on our bench. We need to upgrade our talent level on D and so far it's been completely ignored.

As far as Crowell goes, seriously, I like the guy. He's a solid player. But he's not anywhere close to the level of guys like Lance Briggs, Takeo (when healthy), Adalius Thomas, Cato June, etc. He's a good player who helps our D- just not the playmaker that we're missing on D.

What a douchey post.

[HHURRICANE]

In the future, I will try to maximize the use of monosyllabic words to assist you in comprehending my posts. oh, ****, I did it again. Hold on, let me re-write: "I'll try hard to use smaller words so you know what I mean. " Is that better?

While our young guys will improve, it's unreasonable to expect that one season of experience is all it takes to improve on the 27th ranked run D, especially since we lost two starters. Like I already said, Clements was highly overrated and Fletch had lost a step, but they're still better than the guys sitting on our bench. We need to upgrade our talent level on D and so far it's been completely ignored.

As far as Crowell goes, seriously, I like the guy. He's a solid player. But he's not anywhere close to the level of guys like Lance Briggs, Takeo (when healthy), Adalius Thomas, Cato June, etc. He's a good player who helps our D- just not the playmaker that we're missing on D.

I'm in agreement. I'm going to go a step further. Do I think the Bills had the worst off seson ever? Give me a break. Some the moves we had to make. Any Bills fan that thinks Clements is worth 80 million should be shot. But he's gone and we will not be better at that position. With Fletcher, believe it or not, I think we come out ahead. He can be replaced with a better LB in the draft if we take them in the first. WILLIS is better period. Plus Dockery is an upgrade. Where we are going to get ***** slapped is at RB. As much as I hate McGahee I don't see a rookie coming in and doing a better job. I think we should have kept him. We are going to be weaker.

[Philagape]

I could see a second-round RB doing better than 3.9 yards a carry, especially with an improved line.

[OpIv37]

What a douchey post.

Yeah? Your post really added to the discussion as well :rolleyes:

What's wrong with what I said? Our D sucked last year and we have yet to even look at a single defensive FA, other than a backup safety. We lost two starters on D and haven't replaced either of them. Crowell has not shown that he's a playmaker. These are all facts.

If you really think one year of experience is all this team needed to improve on D, you're absolutely fooling yourself.

[BAM]

I remember how everyone thought we had the worst draft last year as well.

How's that turned out so far?

Yah.

[HAMMER]

Yeah? Your post really added to the discussion as well :rolleyes:

What's wrong with what I said? Our D sucked last year and we have yet to even look at a single defensive FA, other than a backup safety. We lost two starters on D and haven't replaced either of them. Crowell has not shown that he's a playmaker. These are all facts.

If you really think one year of experience is all this team needed to improve on D, you're absolutely fooling yourself.

"I'll try to use smaller words so you understand".

I guess we can't all be as smart as you think you are.

Crowell has not shown he is a playmaker? That is not fact, it is flat out wrong.....and yes I definitely think our d-line will be much improved this year. I have faith in the players we drafted and becoming a good player in the NFL doesn't happen overnight. I also don't think we are going to the Super Bowl in the next couple years so I am all for letting our team develop and not try and buy a championship ala the Redskins.

Here are some indisputable facts. You constantly ***** and moan, you are never happy about anything.

[OpIv37]

"I'll try to use smaller words so you understand".

I guess we can't all be as smart as you think you are.

Crowell has not shown he is a playmaker? That is not fact, it is flat out wrong.....and yes I definitely think our d-line will be much improved this year. I have faith in the players we drafted and becoming a good player in the NFL doesn't happen overnight. I also don't think we are going to the Super Bowl in the next couple years so I am all for letting our team develop and not try and buy a championship ala the Redskins.

Here are some indisputable facts. You constantly ***** and moan, you are never happy about anything.

If you are happy about doing nothing to improve the 27th ranked run D, then you don't care if this team wins or not. I care if this team wins, hence I will be *****ing and moaning until they do.

If you think our DL will be much improved with the same players, well I don't even know how to respond to that because it defies all logic. You can't do the exact same thing and expect different outcomes- that's simply not how it works in the real world. It might improve slightly due to experience and players developing, but not enough to turn one of the NFL's worst D's into a decent one.

and there's a world of difference between trying to buy a championship and filling holes in FA. So far, on D we've created holes without filling anything.

And calling Crowell a playmaker is proof that there is absolutely no objectivity on this board. No doubt he's a solid player, but he certainly does not qualify for "playmaker" status. If a Jets or Dolphins fan came on here and called a Crowell-caliber player a "playmaker" we'd be laughing in their face. Don't get me wrong- I'm not suggesting that Crowell should be benched or replaced by any means- like I said, he's a solid player. He's just not the kind of guy who's capable of putting a D over the top with turnovers and other big plays- ie, not a playmaker.

As far as the smaller words thing, did you bother to read the post I quoted? ublink went off on me for using all those big words I learned in college, as if education is suddenly a bad thing. So I stood up for myself, and you insult me :rolleyes:

[YardRat]

You can't do the exact same thing and expect different outcomes-

I don't think they plan on doing the exact same thing, but the changes don't have to include personnel to improve.

[Michael82]

There are several still out there...

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>1</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Cory Redding (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2470217&yr=2007)</TD><TD>Fran.</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4/279</NOBR></TD><TD>Texas (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127465)</TD><TD>Detroit (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=116)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>2</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Robaire Smith (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2473263&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>7</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4/310</NOBR></TD><TD>Michigan State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127354)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>3</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Vonnie Holliday (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2448950&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>6-5/290</NOBR></TD><TD>North Carolina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127382)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=92)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=92)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>4</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Spencer Johnson (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2438235&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/286</NOBR></TD><TD>Auburn (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127218)</TD><TD>Minnesota (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=113)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>5</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Randy Starks (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2463899&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/307</NOBR></TD><TD>Maryland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127345)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=97)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>6</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Alfonso Boone (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2437862&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>6-4.5/325</NOBR></TD><TD>Central State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=148100)</TD><TD>Chicago (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=115)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>7</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Michael Myers (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2475807&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/300</NOBR></TD><TD>Alabama (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127204)</TD><TD>Denver (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=103)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>8</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ron Edwards (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2477334&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/290</NOBR></TD><TD>Texas A&M (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127466)</TD><TD>Kansas City (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=104)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>9</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Keith Traylor (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2448946&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>16</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/337</NOBR></TD><TD>Central Oklahoma (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=128057)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=92)</TD><TD>Miami (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=92)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>10</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Hollis Thomas (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2659896&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>11</TD><TD><NOBR>6-0/306</NOBR></TD><TD>Northern Illinois (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127548)</TD><TD>New Orleans (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=118)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>11</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Aubrayo Franklin (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2519695&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-1/320</NOBR></TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127461)</TD><TD>Baltimore (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=98)</TD><TD>San Francisco (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=121)</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>12</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ian Scott (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2437927&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/302</NOBR></TD><TD>Florida (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127282)</TD><TD>Chicago (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=115)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>13</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Shaun Smith (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2472684&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/320</NOBR></TD><TD>South Carolina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127438)</TD><TD>Cincinnati (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=101)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>14</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rashad Moore (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2478888&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/324</NOBR></TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127461)</TD><TD>Oakland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=105)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>15</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Lional Dalton (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2973666&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>9</TD><TD><NOBR>-/-</NOBR></TD><TD>Eastern Michigan (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127531)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>16</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Cedric Killings (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2973670&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD><NOBR>-/-</NOBR></TD><TD>Carson-Newman College (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=128124)</TD><TD>Houston (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=88696)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>17</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Dan Klecko (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2746839&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>5-11/275</NOBR></TD><TD>Temple (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127459)</TD><TD>Indianapolis (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=94)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff99" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>18</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rien Long (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2451447&yr=2007)</TD><TD>UFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-6/302</NOBR></TD><TD>Washington State (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127501)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=97)</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&stnid=97)</TD></TR><TR class=recruitingResultRow onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eeeeee" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#EEEEEE'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>19</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Ethan Kelley (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2445232&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>4</TD><TD><NOBR>6-2/303</NOBR></TD><TD>Baylor (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127221)</TD><TD>Cleveland (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=102)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFF99'" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF'" align=left width="100%"><TD>DT</TD><TD align=left>20</TD><TD>http://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/site_logo/rating.gif</TD><TD>Rodney Leisle (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2474384&yr=2007)</TD><TD>RFA</TD><TD>3</TD><TD><NOBR>6-3/315</NOBR></TD><TD>UCLA (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&csid=127482)</TD><TD>New Orleans (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&ctnid=118)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
That reminds me.... I'm SHOCKED that no one has sniffed Ian Scott yet. I would love him here. :shocked:

[justasportsfan]

I'm sick of this "wait for the draft" mentality. We had 6 different rookies play on D last year and it got us to 7-9. We need immediate help and that comes from experienced players. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting better results.

Note to justa: "experienced players" is not necessarily the same as "big name FAs"

oh, and where are the FA defenders that haven't even BEEN to buffalo yet?



"I want my OL. WAAAAAH". I want my replacements for Clements and Fletcher just like I wanted my Posey replacement. WAAAAHHHHH!"

"Marv's too old and moves too slow, I want Donahoe back. WAAAHHH!"

[Bert102176]

yep our offseason so far is a failure

[OpIv37]

"I want my OL. WAAAAAH". I want my replacements for Clements and Fletcher just like I wanted my Posey replacement. WAAAAHHHHH!"

"Marv's too old and moves too slow, I want Donahoe back. WAAAHHH!"

um, yeah.... we didn't replace Posey, and at one point during the year we had to play Coy Wire at LB. Oh, and we finished 27th in run D. Would Posey have helped? Probably not, but if he wasn't good enough to help, the guy behind him on the bench sure as hell isn't good enough either. If you lose a starter, whether it's by choice cuz he "doesn't fit the system" or via FA or trade or whatever, YOU STILL NEED TO REPLACE THEM.

Oh, and how many times do I have to tell you- I GAVE THEM CREDIT FOR FIXING THE OL. But once again, you ignored that post cuz it doesn't fit your preconceived notions of what I said. And in case you didn't notice, this team had a hell of a lot more holes than OL.