Bills are within budget

[Michael82]

The Buffalo Bills have not spent more than they were planning to spend thus far in free agency, but they’re getting close to their spending limit.

The Bills currently are committed to spending about $103 million in real dollars in 2007, according to figures compiled by The Buffalo News. That’s money the team will pay players in base salaries, signing bonuses and other roster bonuses this year.

The Bills’ salary cap for 2007 is $112 million. The team has said it will not spend over the salary cap limit in real cash, even though it could do so under the NFL’s salary cap accounting rules.

The $103 million does not count money the Bills will pay their draft choices, plus about $2 million in extra space they will need during the season in case of injuries. Nor does it count the money they will need to add a couple of veteran role players, such as a freeagent running back. The rookies will cost $5 million or more, depending on how the Bills structure the contracts. So that brings the Bills very close to $112 million in cash payments.

Conclusion: The financial picture is even further evidence that a trade of linebacker Takeo Spikes is likely. Spikes is due to earn $4.6 million from the Bills this year, and that’s space they probably want to use for several less expensive players.

http://www.buffalonews.com/213/story/29573.html

[Michael82]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:

[Jan Reimers]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:
I agree, Mikey. Although Spikes is expensive and not what he once was, his departure will leave us real short at linebacker, even assuming Ellison develops quickly. And, unless we sign Brown or another FA RB, we're totally decimated at RB.

I know Marv has a plan - he's certainly getting rid of players who are making more money than their on field performance warrants - but he's certainly creating a lot of holes. Filling most of them through the draft is probably the way to go, but the draft is always a risky proposition.

[don137]

Maybe they will wait until after the draft to unload Spikes. Players are usually cheaper the longer the free agency period goes on. Plus, if you spend money on a player to fill a need before the draft and a great player falls to you at that position in the draft you might of watsred you money. Since the Bills need to be very cost conscience I think a trade after the draft and waiting to fill the rest of the holes until after the draft would be best for a team counting pennies unfortunately. The bad side is you may not be able to fill a hole adequately.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Speaking of cheaper players later in the FA period... Cato June's still out there.

[patmoran2006]

I thought maybe Wilson changed his minds and thought he owed it to his fans to put a winner out there. Especially after the good start with the OL.

But what the hell good is having a better OL going to accomplish if the defense is even WORSE than it was last year?

YOu lose your top DB, your top LB, and your going to trade Spikes too? and you dont sign a single person on the defense via FA to strengthen the unit?

I'm sorry, but if this team is done signing players of any significance and relies 100% on the draft to fill all these holes, you can forget about contending for the playoffs in 2007-- that's just the way its going to be... That defense isnt even close to good enough yet. They need a couple of solid vets plus a couple more good draft picks.

I wanted Dockery and Walker; but not at the expense of having a bigger swiss cheese defense than last year. I thought we were making good moves, and they were; but now we're going to make up for it by dumping players and making the team weaker than it was last year everywhere else

[RedEyE]

I don't think he's going anywhere unless we trade him to Chicago for Lance Briggs, and that would only improve our LB situation.

[justasportsfan]

I thought maybe Wilson changed his minds and thought he owed it to his fans to put a winner out there. Especially after the good start with the OL.

But what the hell good is having a better OL going to accomplish if the defense is even WORSE than it was last year?

YOu lose your top DB, your top LB, and your going to trade Spikes too? and you dont sign a single person on the defense via FA to strengthen the unit?

I'm sorry, but if this team is done signing players of any significance and relies 100% on the draft to fill all these holes, you can forget about contending for the playoffs in 2007-- that's just the way its going to be... That defense isnt even close to good enough yet. They need a couple of solid vets plus a couple more good draft picks.

I wanted Dockery and Walker; but not at the expense of having a bigger swiss cheese defense than last year. I thought we were making good moves, and they were; but now we're going to make up for it by dumping players and making the team weaker than it was last year everywhere else


Marv said he'd fix the OL and he did. He also said he'd fix the Dl and he will. He already made you look like a crybaby when you b!tched about the OL too soon . Some people never learn.

[X-Era]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:

Hold up, we did this before...over-reacted...with the cash to cap comments. This is speculation again. We dont know the actual dollar figures, and we dont know the actual rules that the FO is operating by. It could be true, but it also could be crap.

I trust in Marv. If we wanted a player and he would help us next year, we would get him. I believe that.

You want proof that we arent done? Just listen to the presser for the OL signings. Jauron said we werent done and that we will probably sign a couple more. Those were his words, Marv made a similar comment as well.

[patmoran2006]

#1- I didnt ***** about the OL because everybody knew we'd sign someone, just didnt think it would be Dockery. I gave credit for that.. But if signing him means we have to dump off key players in trades and neglect other spots, then no guard was worth the money.

2- Marv will fix the DL how? Through the draft? Umm ok, just like he's going to fix RB, 2 LB's and CB through the draft too right? Cool, cause because he better be the next Bill Polian.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm pretty sure this is what I've been saying. It's not quite as bad but I'll show you where:

Losing Clements=Picking up Dockery. So that move is okay and I might even argue that Dockery will have a lot more impact at his position than Clements.

Losing Spikes= ????. I think losing him will leave a hole because at 4.6 million we are not going to bring in another 4.6 million dollar guy to replace him. I don't see his upgrade in FA so we are looking at a late 3rd rounder (Ravens pick) or later to replace him.

Fletcher=1st or 2nd round LB. Fletcher is going to get replaced in the draft. I actually think we were going to be in great shape here until we announced that Spikes was gone. I don't know how smart Crowell is but he better have some leadership skills. Becase that is one young group.

McGahee=big loss. Before you go over why not, I agree that he was a total loser on and off the field. However the guy did average over 1000 yards a season behind a ****ty OL. The OL is better but RB is a crap shoot. We could draft a guy in the first only to see a guy in the 4th be "rookie of the year". It's also very rare that a backup, no matter how much potential, ends up being a successful starter.

[Night Train]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:

As far as I'm concerned, we lost Clements.

The stars of Fletcher, Spikes and McGahee were as bright as a 5 watt bulb in 2006. They were good at one time but living in the past does nothing to improve the team. Lineup changes are a yearly given in the cap age of the NFL.

We will add talent at LB, CB and RB by training camp. The only significant drop I can predict may be at Clements spot but that was something we saw coming.

[TacklingDummy]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:


And people wonder why other people are saying the Bills had the worst off-season so far.

[patmoran2006]

There is no way we are going to be competitive if we only spend 9 million more in FA. Unlike teams like the Colts or SD, we're far from a Super bowl contender with what we had.

We have a better OL than last year; but our defense is clearly weaker, we did nothing to get Lee Evans any help; Shaud Williams is our only Rb on the roster; we don't have a FB; our DL is the same bunk DL it was last year; Nate is gone and as of right now the next best CB is Youboty or Jabrari Greer; Fletcher is gone and Spikes could be next;

Lovely

[justasportsfan]

2- Marv will fix the DL how? Through the draft? Umm ok, just like he's going to fix RB, 2 LB's and CB through the draft too right? Cool, cause because he better be the next Bill Polian.
I don't know how or when but he isn't gonna do it the way you Donahoe fans want it done.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I don't think he's going anywhere unless we trade him to Chicago for Lance Briggs, and that would only improve our LB situation.That's the deal to make right there... Swap #1's and LB's.

The Bills save $2.7M on Spikes salary.

Maybe $.7M off the rookie pool.

If Holcomb retires or is cut... $1.5M savings.

Sounds to me like the Bills have at least another $2.1M left in the budget... SO...

There's the $7M right there for Briggs' 2007 contract. In addition, I'd spend a day 1 pick at LB.

(I'm not totally convinced the SNews took into account the $2.2M savings from McGahee and the $1M savings from Reyes.)

As for running back...

Sign A-train (or Chris Brown if we can afford).
Draft day 1 RB.
Toss Josh Reed into the RB mix.

Corner back...

Sign inexpensive vet (Thomas for 1 year).
Rotate vet and Youboty as starters.
Invest a day 1 pick.

[Michael82]

I don't think he's going anywhere unless we trade him to Chicago for Lance Briggs, and that would only improve our LB situation.
I hope he gets Briggs. That would make me shut up immediately and never doubt "The Marv."

[TacklingDummy]

Lance Briggs is not coming to Buffalo.

[patmoran2006]

I don't know how or when but he isn't gonna do it the way you Donahoe fans want it done.

Yer right.. the "Marv" way.

1- Sign Tripplett for $18 million and then totally waste trading up for a first rounder to draft McCargo; who is an exact clone of him who plays the same position?

2- Spend a ton of money on resigning Chris Kelsay; one of the key reason's we're like 28th against the run.

If you're right and Marv does fix the DL through early draft picks, that means our LB corps is going to blow, who the hell knows who will be our RB or CB, and Lee Evans will get triple teamed every play next season after a ridiculous 2006.

For the record: I don't blame Marv. He obviously knows what he's doing. Its not his fault.. If Bob Kraft was our owner, Marv would probably have the best team in football by the time camp rolled around.. But if he has only 9 million left to spend, he's bringing a knife to a gunfight in this division.

[justasportsfan]

That would make me shut up immediately and never doubt "The Marv."
I believe you . NOT!

[patmoran2006]

I hope he gets Briggs. That would make me shut up immediately and never doubt "The Marv."

Even if Chicago wanted to trade Briggs and they wanted to trade them to us, if Wilson is sticking by this "cash to cap" policy we wouldnt have the money to sign him; even though we still have more cap room than all of but like 7 teams in the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

Yer right.. the "Marv" way.

1- Sign Tripplett for $18 million and then totally waste trading up for a first rounder to draft McCargo; who is an exact clone of him who plays the same position?

2- Spend a ton of money on resigning Chris Kelsay; one of the key reason's we're like 28th against the run.

If you're right and Marv does fix the DL through early draft picks, that means our LB corps is going to blow, who the hell knows who will be our RB or CB, and Lee Evans will get triple teamed every play next season after a ridiculous 2006.

For the record: I don't blame Marv. He obviously knows what he's doing. Its not his fault.. If Bob Kraft was our owner, Marv would probably have the best team in football by the time camp rolled around.. But if he has only 9 million left to spend, he's bringing a knife to a gunfight in this division.

whatever his way is, he made you look like a fool . I would rather give Marv's opinions a chance over someone who said it would take a miracle to win 4 games. last year. The person who couldn't have been more wrong is the same person who's so critical of Marv. :coocoo:

You make me miss ICE's posts Moran. ;)


Maybe you should start a petition wanting Donahoe back.

[HHURRICANE]

Lance Briggs is not coming to Buffalo.

Yeah, one of the few times that I'm 100% in agreement with you. Their front office has no interest in trading him. PERIOD.

Let me kill one more scenario. Mickael Turner. He's styaing in San Diego for a reason. Because the Chargers want to win a Super bowl and this guy is their insurnace policy if anything happens to LT. That's why his tender is ridiculous and the Chargers have all but said that they "are not" negotiating on it.

[X-Era]

#1- I didnt ***** about the OL because everybody knew we'd sign someone, just didnt think it would be Dockery. I gave credit for that.. But if signing him means we have to dump off key players in trades and neglect other spots, then no guard was worth the money.

2- Marv will fix the DL how? Through the draft? Umm ok, just like he's going to fix RB, 2 LB's and CB through the draft too right? Cool, cause because he better be the next Bill Polian.

UGGGHHHH!

To be fair, you have been very critical of your version of what cash to cap meant, only to be proven wrong. You also have made multiple comments about us overpaying, fine your entitled. I no way did any of our signings force any releases. You think we should have kept Villarial and Reyes? Bowen? As what...overpaid backups? Most of us wanted these guys cut anyways, why arent we applauding? We are all of a tounch over a week into free agency. Isnt that a bit early to say we are neglecting anything? We havent finished signing yet, a fact that Marv and Jauron made at the OL presser, we havent had the draft, we havent seen any late cuts, and we havent seen which good players last way too long in FA...like Cato June.

Your assessment of our DL and the Bills may be 2 different things here. The Bills resigned Kelsay because they want to keep him, they paid him as much as they did because they think he will quickly be earning every penny. I know you think it was stupid, it was a risk, it may blow up in there face. But if theres one player on this team who has the attitude/approach to be more than they are and be an overachiever, its Kelsay. He hast the heart of a lion and hes getting better every year. He could easily be on the verge of a breakout year.

At DT, most are forgetting how much emphasis we put at the position last year. Our biggest FA signing was a DT (Tripplett), we moved back into the 1st round to draft one (McCargo), and then drafted yet another (Williams), we then traded for another during the year (Hargrove). We have certainly be working to make them better. I honestly dont think we are finished yet. I think the Bills will draft one day one, if not 1st round, depending on how it falls.

We lost our starting CB, we lost our starting ILB. BOTH were guys that many of us wanted to let go anyways, is that a "loss"? What do we do at CB and LB? Again, we have 4 day one picks. We also drafted a CB in the 3rd that some talked about as a 1st rounder. We drafted a LB that played alot last year. Spikes had a down year but was it a permanent trend downward or a down year? At the worst, hes worthy of a starting spot. Keep him.

Sum it up, we need 4 things LB, CB, RB, DL we have 4 day one picks. Thats all we need to say. Moreover, we have already said were not done in FA, and were only a week into it.

Maybe we could be a bit more patient?

[Michael82]

That's the deal to make right there... Swap #1's and LB's.

The Bills save $2.7M on Spikes salary.

Maybe $.7M off the rookie pool.

If Holcomb retires or is cut... $1.5M savings.

Sounds to me like the Bills have at least another $2.1M left in the budget... SO...

There's the $7M right there for Briggs' 2007 contract. In addition, I'd spend a day 1 pick at LB.

(I'm not totally convinced the SNews took into account the $2.2M savings from McGahee and the $1M savings from Reyes.)

As for running back...

Sign A-train (or Chris Brown if we can afford).
Draft day 1 RB.
Toss Josh Reed into the RB mix.

Corner back...

Sign inexpensive vet (Thomas for 1 year).
Rotate vet and Youboty as starters.
Invest a day 1 pick.
I like your plan and really hope you are right. Part of me thinks that Marv is constantly on the phone with Chicago and trying to find a way to get Lance Briggs in here. I think he wanted to get the McGahee deal done first to free up some money and now he's going to work as hard as he can on securing a stud LB for our defense. :pray:

But the other part of me believes this article. I think we are done signing big name free agents and will now focus on some players to fill the holes who will come here relatively cheap. Thomas and Brown come to mind. I also think that Marv wants to get some more draft picks and will most likely trade down so he can fill all the rest of the holes in the draft.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yer right.. the "Marv" way.

1- Sign Tripplett for $18 million and then totally waste trading up for a first rounder to draft McCargo; who is an exact clone of him who plays the same position? Marv fixed the DT position with these moves last year... Just be patient and you'll see fruit.

2- Spend a ton of money on resigning Chris Kelsay; one of the key reason's we're like 28th against the run. I don't agree with you at all here. I believe the reason the Bills were 28th via the run was BECAUSE OF Spikes, Fletcher and Crowell's injury.

If you're right and Marv does fix the DL through early draft picks, that means our LB corps is going to blow, who the hell knows who will be our RB or CB, and Lee Evans will get triple teamed every play next season after a ridiculous 2006.

For the record: I don't blame Marv. He obviously knows what he's doing. Its not his fault.. If Bob Kraft was our owner, Marv would probably have the best team in football by the time camp rolled around.. But if he has only 9 million left to spend, he's bringing a knife to a gunfight in this division.

[TacklingDummy]

Yer right.. the "Marv" way.

1- Sign Tripplett for $18 million and then totally waste trading up for a first rounder to draft McCargo; who is an exact clone of him who plays the same position?

2- Spend a ton of money on resigning Chris Kelsay; one of the key reason's we're like 28th against the run.


How are the Bills going to fix the DL when the DL for next year is basically set already?

DE: Schobel
DT: Triplett
DT: Williams, McCargo, Anderson
DE: Kelsay/Denney/Hargrove

I doubt highly the Bills are going to draft any D-linemen in the draft.

[Nick Markakis]

Brian Leonard looks like another Rob Konrad...

Not a pure FB or RB...

[justasportsfan]

I think he wanted to get the McGahee deal done first to free up some money and now he's going to work as hard as he can on securing a stud LB for our defense. that's what I think exactly happened. One at a time. Instead of impulsively grabbing a Milloy or Bledsoe type of player and paying up the yin yang . Some people just have short memory. They hate TD but want to go back to his ways. Amazing.

[patmoran2006]

1- He hardly made me look like a fool.. I did admit I predicted the Bills would win only four games last year and I was wrong.. I did NOT say "it would take a miracle to win four games". My prediction actually was the Bills would be the bsst 4-12 team in the history of the NFL. Want proof? If I prove it will you finally shut up?

And even so, if your estatic because we won two more games than the previous sorry excuse of a Mularkey led team.. IF that satisfies you, then you are the perfect example of the epitomy of mediocrity that is this organization and at least SOME of the fans.

Take your sunglasses off kid, because you're not seeing things very well. We signed Dockery (solid), Walker (10.75 sacks allowed = taking a big chance) and Whittle (who gives a ****, even Minny didn't want him at minimum wage).

we lost Fletcher, Clements, Mcgahee and likely Spikes. As of right now, their replacements are 1) Nobody 2) Youboty or Greer 3) Shaud Williams and 4) Ellison? are you f'n kidding me?

We havent even been able to resign A-Train or Kiwi Thomas; who at this point have suddenly become KEY free agents to us.

Even if you try to replace ALL of them through the draft, what WR is going to take pressure off Evans now that he's no longer low-key and every team in the league knows how sick he is? Who's going to be our FB next year? Are we running the same exact DT rotation that couldnt stop the run to save their life last year?

NO draft is going to accomplish all of that. WE don't have 8 first round picks.. Anybody could see its going to be another year of 4-5 rookies starting again and in a division with two playoff teams, that's not going to get it done.

I love Marv as much as the next guy, but he aint a Super Hero. He's 81 and I don't see him hitting Laurence Maroney in the backfield or jumping over a pile at the goaline for a touchdown.

Again, its not his fault- but if that Buffalo News article is true, if the Bills are only going to spend about nine million in FA, there is no way they are taking the next step; they lost too much already and even if they didn't they had too many holes to fix to be a playoff team than one draft can handle.

[Michael82]

that's what I think exactly happened. One at a time. Instead of impulsively grabbing a Milloy or Bledsoe type of player and paying up the yin yang . Some people just have short memory. They hate TD but want to go back to his ways. Amazing.
I hope to God that happens because it will make me feel so much better. As of now, this team, specifically the defense scares the **** out of me.

:pray:

[Yasgur's Farm]

1- He hardly made me look like a fool.. I did admit I predicted the Bills would win only four games last year and I was wrong.. I did NOT say "it would take a miracle to win four games". My prediction actually was the Bills would be the bsst 4-12 team in the history of the NFL. Want proof? If I prove it will you finally shut up?

And even so, if your estatic because we won two more games than the previous sorry excuse of a Mularkey led team.. IF that satisfies you, then you are the perfect example of the epitomy of mediocrity that is this organization and at least SOME of the fans. 2007 proved our QB future is settled.

Take your sunglasses off kid, because you're not seeing things very well. We signed Dockery (solid), Walker (10.75 sacks allowed = taking a big chance) and Whittle (who gives a ****, even Minny didn't want him at minimum wage).

we lost Fletcher, Clements, Mcgahee and likely Spikes. As of right now, their replacements are 1) Nobody 2) Youboty or Greer 3) Shaud Williams and 4) Ellison? are you f'n kidding me? Is it July 31st already?

We havent even been able to resign A-Train or Kiwi Thomas; who at this point have suddenly become KEY free agents to us. See last comment.

Even if you try to replace ALL of them through the draft, what WR is going to take pressure off Evans now that he's no longer low-key and every team in the league knows how sick he is? Dwayne Jarrett, Sidney Rice, Robert Meachem. Who's going to be our FB next year? Brad Ceislak, Ryan Neufeld. Are we running the same exact DT rotation that couldnt stop the run to save their life last year? They shot the gaps like they were supposed too... It was the $14M worth of LB's who couldn't fill the gaps (Plus McCargo fell to injury).

NO draft is going to accomplish all of that. WE don't have 8 first round picks.. But we do have 4 day 1 picks. Anybody could see its going to be another year of 4-5 rookies starting again and in a division with two playoff teams, that's not going to get it done.

I love Marv as much as the next guy, but he aint a Super Hero. He's 81 and I don't see him hitting Laurence Maroney in the backfield or jumping over a pile at the goaline for a touchdown.

Again, its not his fault- but if that Buffalo News article is true, if the Bills are only going to spend about nine million in FA, there is no way they are taking the next step; they lost too much already and even if they didn't they had too many holes to fix to be a playoff team than one draft can handle.

[patmoran2006]

whatever his way is, he made you look like a fool . I would rather give Marv's opinions a chance over someone who said it would take a miracle to win 4 games. last year. The person who couldn't have been more wrong is the same person who's so critical of Marv. :coocoo:

You make me miss ICE's posts Moran. ;)


Maybe you should start a petition wanting Donahoe back.
Maybe this will shut you up (doubt it). But if you're going to follow my posts around like an obsessed little school girl, at least give the courtesy in the future of NOT putting words in my mouth. I never said "it would take a miracle to win 4 games last year".

Matter of fact, I said this.
"Buffalo (4-12): Could be the best 4-12 team in history, but their lack of experience, 20 new players, a new system on both sides of the ball and new coaching staff on the roster results in numerous close loses. Fans should judge this team based on the maturity of Losman and some of the young defenders rather than Wins and losses"

So by reading that, although my prediction was for a 4-12 record, I also stated that that Losman's play and some of the young guys is how the team should be defined for 2006. I didn't blast the Bills at all.

oh, here's the thread in case you think I'm lying
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=107438&highlight=2006+predictions

Now while my prediction record-wise was wrong, as well as many other teams (which 99% of america would be wrong with too).. DOn't call me "Ice" when your WORSE than him. You directly put words in other people's mouth. You made it sound like I said the Bills are a joke and a laughinstock.

Do your homework before you start talking ****.

[justasportsfan]

1- He hardly made me look like a fool.. I did admit I predicted the Bills would win only four games last year and I was wrong.. I did NOT say "it would take a miracle to win four games". My prediction actually was the Bills would be the bsst 4-12 team in the history of the NFL. Want proof? If I prove it will you finally shut up?

And even so, if your estatic because we won two more games than the previous sorry excuse of a Mularkey led team.. IF that satisfies you, then you are the perfect example of the epitomy of mediocrity that is this organization and at least SOME of the fans.

Take your sunglasses off kid, because you're not seeing things very well. We signed Dockery (solid), Walker (10.75 sacks allowed = taking a big chance) and Whittle (who gives a ****, even Minny didn't want him at minimum wage).

we lost Fletcher, Clements, Mcgahee and likely Spikes. As of right now, their replacements are 1) Nobody 2) Youboty or Greer 3) Shaud Williams and 4) Ellison? are you f'n kidding me?

We havent even been able to resign A-Train or Kiwi Thomas; who at this point have suddenly become KEY free agents to us.

Even if you try to replace ALL of them through the draft, what WR is going to take pressure off Evans now that he's no longer low-key and every team in the league knows how sick he is? Who's going to be our FB next year? Are we running the same exact DT rotation that couldnt stop the run to save their life last year?

NO draft is going to accomplish all of that. WE don't have 8 first round picks.. Anybody could see its going to be another year of 4-5 rookies starting again and in a division with two playoff teams, that's not going to get it done.

I love Marv as much as the next guy, but he aint a Super Hero. He's 81 and I don't see him hitting Laurence Maroney in the backfield or jumping over a pile at the goaline for a touchdown.

Again, its not his fault- but if that Buffalo News article is true, if the Bills are only going to spend about nine million in FA, there is no way they are taking the next step; they lost too much already and even if they didn't they had too many holes to fix to be a playoff team than one draft can handle.


OH puhlease. I'm not gonna search the archives for you.

Didn't you say that Kelsay would be our biggest signing? You were wrong.

Didn't you say you loved Marv's draft last year only to imply that the Saints draft better than we do?

What about Marv is clueless? :coocoo:

Didn't you say you are a fan of Fairchilds only to say that the saints hire better coaches . Let's not forget that Marv was also interested in their headcoach.

You made all those comments only because Marv didn't move as fast as you wanted to only to find out later that Marv did fix the OL? Now that you got your foot off your mouth, you're back to whining again?

Please , show me where I am excited about having won a few more games than Mularkeys team. I want nothing more than a sb win. I am however able to realize it does not take one season to do so. I have proof from the guys like Polian and even Bellichick that you don't turn a team over in 1 season.

Just because Marv doesn't do things YOUR WAY means he doesn't have hat it takes? Last time I checked , you haven't held a job in the NFL.

Your ICE attitude is boring me Pat. Get over it. I love the bills and want nothing less than a sb win. Just clear out the sand in your vagina and enjoy the ride. ;)

[X-Era]

"Buffalo (4-12): Could be the best 4-12 team in history, but their lack of experience, 20 new players, a new system on both sides of the ball and new coaching staff on the roster results in numerous close loses. Fans should judge this team based on the maturity of Losman and some of the young defenders rather than Wins and losses"

That is a very sensible prediction IMO. The record was a bit to cynical, but the overall take is very well thought out.

I think your posts bring 2 things that people are responding to...1) too much cynical negativity, the past with our new FO is showing us we are often better than we think...2) A lack of patience, its too damn early to be this down on the team.

I just cant see why your so down on a team that you supposed to be a "fan" of.

[Philagape]

If there are several rookies starting this season, it shouldn't come as a surprise; we had five rookie starters at one time or another last year. This is how it works here. The fate of this team absolutely depends on good drafting.
The reality of cash-to-cap is we don't spend as much money as we're eligible to under the salary cap. The reason we would dump Spikes is money, pure and simple. We need that money to fill the other holes we have. Kelsay and Walker better play better than they did last year, because we could lose Spikes because of them. If they tank and Spikes returns to form on another team, we have a right to be pissed.
Yeah, we opened the vault for Dockery, but so far our losses outweigh our gains. Only a home-run draft will reverse that.

[patmoran2006]

"Buffalo (4-12): Could be the best 4-12 team in history, but their lack of experience, 20 new players, a new system on both sides of the ball and new coaching staff on the roster results in numerous close loses. Fans should judge this team based on the maturity of Losman and some of the young defenders rather than Wins and losses"

That is a very sensible prediction IMO. The record was a bit to cynical, but the overall take is very well thought out.

I think your posts bring 2 things that people are responding to...1) too much cynical negativity, the past with our new FO is showing us we are often better than we think...2) A lack of patience, its too damn early to be this down on the team.

I just cant see why your so down on a team that you supposed to be a "fan" of.
im not down on the team, I am down on the owner.

[X-Era]

If there are several rookies starting this season, it shouldn't come as a surprise; we had five rookie starters at one time or another last year. This is how it works here. The fate of this team absolutely depends on good drafting.
The reality of cash-to-cap is we don't spend as much money as we're eligible to under the salary cap. The reason we would dump Spikes is money, pure and simple. We need that money to fill the other holes we have. Kelsay and Walker better play better than they did last year, because we could lose Spikes because of them. If they tank and Spikes returns to form on another team, we have a right to be pissed.
Yeah, we opened the vault for Dockery, but so far our losses outweigh our gains. Only a home-run draft will reverse that.

Im happy to say your incorrect.

Jauron has made it clear Spikes is our starting OLB. The FO also made it clear we are not done signing FA's. Marv has also stated that the releases were not cap driven.

And anyone who says they "know" what cash to cap means is wrong. They dont. None of us do. We all should be eating crow as Thurm pointed out, because the Bills continue to suprise us.

YOU can make an arguement that our signings lead to x,y, or z. But thats nothing more than YOUR speculation and has no basis in fact.

[X-Era]

im not down on the team, I am down on the owner.

Dude, hes really old and cant get it up anymore...what are you doing down there? :naughty:

Had to be done.

There is way too much to be excited about to be this worked up. I think we just need patience and all will become clear.

[patmoran2006]

Im happy to say your incorrect.

Jauron has made it clear Spikes is our starting OLB. The FO also made it clear we are not done signing FA's. Marv has also stated that the releases were not cap driven.

And anyone who says they "know" what cash to cap means is wrong. They dont. None of us do. We all should be eating crow as Thurm pointed out, because the Bills continue to suprise us.

YOU can make an arguement that our signings lead to x,y, or z. But thats nothing more than YOUR speculation and has no basis in fact.
If the Bills spend more than 9 million then I will be surprised. Otherwise, they are doing exactly what Marv said they were going to do during his infamous press conference. The only difference is that instead of signing a guy here and there, they apparently blew their wad in one day with three FA OL.

Who have we signed since then? In fact, to my knowledge we havent even had a visitor in since day one, other than a pair of RB's, neither of which are going to make this team better than what was there last year (and doesnt matter cause we didnt sign either of them anyway so why debate that)

[Dr. Lecter]

Before we get all worked up, remember this is speculation by the News:

1. They often have salaries and bonus's wrong. (Thanks :clump:)
2. This is them assuming that Spikes woudl be the move made.
3. Jauron sure made it sound like Takeo was coming back.
4. If Takeo is still having problems (physically) and he leaves can we find somebody to replace him? Probably.

Jumping off the bridge over this is silly. Kinda like assuming the offseason was over before FA even started.

[patmoran2006]

Dude, hes really old and cant get it up anymore...what are you doing down there? :naughty:

Had to be done.

There is way too much to be excited about to be this worked up. I think we just need patience and all will become clear.
it's already crystal clear.. IF we're going to improve on 7-9 we're going to have the greatest draft in team history.. Because the keys guys we've lost are going to be replaced through the draft, not through important FA signings.

Either that, or our Front office lied about how much they're going to spend this year, which would be the best white lie in this organization's history.

[X-Era]

If the Bills spend more than 9 million then I will be surprised. Otherwise, they are doing exactly what Marv said they were going to do during his infamous press conference. The only difference is that instead of signing a guy here and there, they apparently blew their wad in one day with three FA OL.

Who have we signed since then? In fact, to my knowledge we havent even had a visitor in since day one, other than a pair of RB's, neither of which are going to make this team better than what was there last year (and doesnt matter cause we didnt sign either of them anyway so why debate that)

Wait a second. The time frame here is one week. In one week we signed 3 guys, scheduled 4 visits (Rhodes, Dillon, Brown, FS cant remember his name), released 3 players, and traded one of our players for 3 draft picks. Thats in one week.

We are FAR from inactive.

Id would be willing to bet that we havent been that active in one week in a long long time.

[patmoran2006]

I never said we havent been active.. Thats obvious we have been... I said IF the statement about cash to cap holds true, that we pretty much blew our wad (key signings) in the first day.

[X-Era]

it's already crystal clear.. IF we're going to improve on 7-9 we're going to have the greatest draft in team history.. Because the keys guys we've lost are going to be replaced through the draft, not through important FA signings.

Either that, or our Front office lied about how much they're going to spend this year, which would be the best white lie in this organization's history.

Heres another comment with no evidence. Where exactly did the Bills release figure on what they were going to spend? Marv did a masterful job of talking alot during the cash to cap presser, and yet saying nothing. He didnt give anyone a equation on what we would do, he left it all to speculation.

Well, many of us speculated and were wrong. You now are continuing to draw conclusions about what he meant and then say he was telling a white lie. If you dont know what the truth is, how can you say he lied?

[X-Era]

I never said we havent been active.. Thats obvious we have been... I said IF the statement about cash to cap holds true, that we pretty much blew our wad (key signings) in the first day.

We dont know that, none of us knows the contracts, or our budget. Furthermore, as Ive already said, Jauron and Levy BOTH said they arent done yet in FA. Your speculating that we wont spend much on any NEW guy. Thats a safe bet considering the top money guys are almost all gone. But thats the market then and not our "tightness" with our wad so to speak.

I wouldnt be suprised at all if we still signed a bigger name...Maybe Cato June.

[Philagape]

Im happy to say your incorrect.

Jauron has made it clear Spikes is our starting OLB. The FO also made it clear we are not done signing FA's. Marv has also stated that the releases were not cap driven.

And anyone who says they "know" what cash to cap means is wrong. They dont. None of us do. We all should be eating crow as Thurm pointed out, because the Bills continue to suprise us.

YOU can make an arguement that our signings lead to x,y, or z. But thats nothing more than YOUR speculation and has no basis in fact.

Since you just admitted you don't know what cash to cap means, not one word you say is more than speculation either. The difference is, I don't spam the boards with 10,000 threads of homer speculation with no basis in fact.

Nothing the Bills have done so far has really surprised me. I was expecting a good guard signing. If anything, I was surprised we spent so much on a tackle who apparently sucked last year.

The facts are we need, at least, a starting RB, a backup RB, a good LB, a good CB, a real No. 2 WR, a rotational DT. The facts are we have not made any upgrades to our horrible run defense. Anyone who thinks we can address even half of this through FA with any impact has no basis in fact. The facts are, the only defensive player who's even visited is Kevin McAdam. My point was, we need a killer draft.

[X-Era]

Since you just admitted you don't know what cash to cap means, not one word you say is more than speculation either. The difference is, I don't spam the boards with 10,000 threads of homer speculation with no basis in fact.

Nothing the Bills have done so far has really surprised me. I was expecting a good guard signing. If anything, I was surprised we spent so much on a tackle who apparently sucked last year.

The facts are we need, at least, a starting RB, a backup RB, a good LB, a good CB, a real No. 2 WR, a rotational DT. The facts are we have not made any upgrades to our horrible run defense. Anyone who thinks we can address even half of this through FA with any impact has no basis in fact. The facts are, the only defensive player who's even visited is Kevin McAdam. My point was, we need a killer draft.

Might want to lay off the labels, there P-Touch. Truth is Im neither a homer nor a hater. Im stating opinion rather than unsubstantiated, self proclaimed "facts". I already admitted that I dont know what cash to cap is either, thanks for re-pointing it out. But if your gonna try to forecast the future with little knowledge of the inner workings, your pretty much doomed to be wrong a lot. If your OK with that, cool. Id then offer that someone who is often wrong earns little if any right to judge any other poster, or even post anything other than what do you guys think. Yet the thrust of your post is much more looking-down-from-on-high than offering any "opinion" that seems logical.

If the board gets jammed up with 10,000 posts so be it. Thats a great way to justify having a board at all, and a great way to maket he case that this is the best board on the net due to its high level of traffic. But far be it from me to try to "limit" the posts on a message board, apparently thats your job, since you have already self-proclaimed yourself as a MOD.

Anyways, if I were to say soemthing like: "anyone who says we will get even 2 starters out of last years draft has no basis in fact", I would have been completely wrong Whitner, Simpson, rotational Williams. So, Id wouldnt be too quick to assume that theres FACT that states we cant fill the voids you listed through FA and the draft. Id be willing to openly discuss exactly how we might be able to do just that....

But the thrust of your threads indicates your not really interested in my opion and you have your mind made up. Maybe 10,000 threads shows you Im willing to listen, maybe using words like homer, means your not. So then, why be here at all? on a message board that seeks to offer a place for Bills fans to talk about the Bills? Sounds like you dont want to talk.

[camelcowboy]

the cap limit. It’s not a new policy. It’s one they have been committed to ever since they got out of cap trouble after the end of John Butler’s tenure as general manager. Could it be possible that the bills have been spending cap money like this for a while, and marv just let the cat out of the bag. Maybe we blowing this out of portion.

[Philagape]

So, Id wouldnt be too quick to assume that theres FACT that states we cant fill the voids you listed through FA and the draft.

Is that what I said? If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't put words in people's mouths. Like self-proclaiming myself a mod :rofl: That's seriously off the deep end.

[Michael82]

Nothing the Bills have done so far has really surprised me. I was expecting a good guard signing. If anything, I was surprised we spent so much on a tackle who apparently sucked last year.

The facts are we need, at least, a starting RB, a backup RB, a good LB, a good CB, a real No. 2 WR, a rotational DT. The facts are we have not made any upgrades to our horrible run defense. Anyone who thinks we can address even half of this through FA with any impact has no basis in fact. The facts are, the only defensive player who's even visited is Kevin McAdam. My point was, we need a killer draft.

Great post! :bf1:

[HHURRICANE]

Since you just admitted you don't know what cash to cap means, not one word you say is more than speculation either. The difference is, I don't spam the boards with 10,000 threads of homer speculation with no basis in fact.

Nothing the Bills have done so far has really surprised me. I was expecting a good guard signing. If anything, I was surprised we spent so much on a tackle who apparently sucked last year.

The facts are we need, at least, a starting RB, a backup RB, a good LB, a good CB, a real No. 2 WR, a rotational DT. The facts are we have not made any upgrades to our horrible run defense. Anyone who thinks we can address even half of this through FA with any impact has no basis in fact. The facts are, the only defensive player who's even visited is Kevin McAdam. My point was, we need a killer draft.

I was going to post something similar but I couldn't make it short enough. Great post.

The only place that I'm not worried about is CB. I think Clements departure will be not that big if we address LB in the draft. I think we will end up drafting 2 LB's in the draft for sure.

We are screwed on getting a #2 WR.

[feelthepain]

I don't think he's going anywhere unless we trade him to Chicago for Lance Briggs, and that would only improve our LB situation.


I hope you don't mean player for player. Briggs will cost you DP's too I'm sure. Plus the reason Briggs is unhappy in Chicago is because he wants big money....does that sound like something the Bills would be happy with to you?? Picks and lots of cash?? Doesn't sound likely.

[Philagape]

I was going to post something similar but I couldn't make it short enough. Great post.

The only place that I'm not worried about is CB. I think Clements departure will be not that big if we address LB in the draft. I think we will end up drafting 2 LB's in the draft for sure.

We are screwed on getting a #2 WR.

I'm not that concerned at CB either, but that's only if Youboty is ready to start.

[Tatonka]

marv has said numberous times, you build your team primarily through the draft.

[Nighthawk]

This team better not think about going into the season with all rookies or second year players filling in on that horrible defense last season. Yes, the line has been a major problem for us for a long time, but losing 3 starters on defense and not even addressing the problem to stop the run would be flat out stupid. This team should not feel like they are done in FA or else we're looking at another dissappointing season.

[feelthepain]

marv has said numberous times, you build your team primarily through the draft.

Yes I agree, but proven players are needed too. You can't guarantee success with DP's so you need some balance with proven players and smart drafting. The Bills are getting rid of their proven players, but keeping their backups. They should be upgrading their backups and keeping their proven players and upgrading their talent through the draft.

[justasportsfan]

Yes I agree, but proven players are needed too. You can't guarantee success with DP's so you need some balance with proven players and smart drafting. The Bills are getting rid of their proven players, but keeping their backups. They should be upgrading their backups and keeping their proven players and upgrading their talent through the draft.:coocoo:

[Night Train]

Yes I agree, but proven players are needed too. You can't guarantee success with DP's so you need some balance with proven players and smart drafting. The Bills are getting rid of their proven players, but keeping their backups. They should be upgrading their backups and keeping their proven players and upgrading their talent through the draft.

What ?

If the starters are playing small while pulling down big salaries, you move them out. Backups know their role, pull down small salaries and can be effective on Special Teams.

Some starters are failing us and being replaced.

[Michael82]

This team better not think about going into the season with all rookies or second year players filling in on that horrible defense last season. Yes, the line has been a major problem for us for a long time, but losing 3 starters on defense and not even addressing the problem to stop the run would be flat out stupid. This team should not feel like they are done in FA or else we're looking at another dissappointing season.
:clap:

[kernowboy]

I'm not entirely sure what the panic is about.

There is still month's of free agency to go, a month before the draft. There are still players available in free agency and certain veterans will be cut who might be a decent fit here in Buffalo. Judging by who teams above us in the draft have be signing in FA, the draft will be shaken up and certainly a RB already looks to be sliding. I can see us dropping down and still getting players we are looking at. Having spend money on the OL, I can see us using a R2 on a RB like Brian Leonard ... a R1 on a LB like Willis or trading down for Posluzny. Alternatively we could look at a big receiving option and I am not sure we can discount Greg Olsen. With Leonard in the backfield we could easily go for a 2 TE set.

I could at this stage live with a draft that goes

1) Greg Olsen, TE, the big receiving option (6-6, 254lbs, 4.51)
2) Brian Leonard, RB, - a crash, bang, wallop runner (6-1, 226lbs, 4.52)
3a) Zak DeOssie, MLB - (6-4, 250lbs, 4.62)
3b) Doug Datish, OL giving us versatile cover at C, G and LT (6-4, 302lbs)
4) Tim Shaw, OLB/DE (6-1, 236lbs running a 4.49)
6) Travaris Bain, CB (6ft, 180lbs, running a 4.43)
at R7 try to trade for Anttaj Hawthorne or
7a) Damion DeRosia, DT (6ft5, 325lbs)
7b) Mike DeVito DT (6ft3, 298lbs, 4.98)

I mean we want size in middle of the LB corps - DeOssie is obviously intelligent enough and at 6-4, 250lbs and running a 4.62 probably has the physical attributes as well.
We get height at receiver, a grinder at RB, our LBs, cover in the OL, a CB and a DT or two to develop

And with a extra R3 pick in 2008 we can look at a DT, DE, or even RB (moving Leonard to FB)

[Michael82]

I would flip out if we waste our first rounder on a TE. We have a ton of other more pressing needs. :mad:

[kernowboy]

A TE, who can provide a very big and effective receiving option which is a major need, and provide additional blocking and line support for what may be a rookie RB, which we need?

[Dr. Lecter]

Nothing the Bills have done so far has really surprised me. I was expecting a good guard signing. If anything, I was surprised we spent so much on a tackle who apparently sucked last year.

The facts are we need, at least, a starting RB, a backup RB, a good LB, a good CB, a real No. 2 WR, a rotational DT. The facts are we have not made any upgrades to our horrible run defense. Anyone who thinks we can address even half of this through FA with any impact has no basis in fact. The facts are, the only defensive player who's even visited is Kevin McAdam. My point was, we need a killer draft.

First off, those are all not definite needs. People seem to forget that all teams have areas that can improve. The irrational beleif that the Bills are going to have all-stars at most positions, or that the entire fix would be done this is frustrating.

As for the run defense, for one McCargo is coming back. For two, it is the 2nd year of the new system. Third, there are DT's and LB's available in the draft.

But at least the over-reacting and panic modes are still running high.

[Philagape]

there are DT's and LB's available in the draft.


My point was, we need a killer draft.

I don't expect all-stars, but I want good starters. And I don't care about other teams. And I don't assume McCargo will be an improvement, especially since he plays the same spot at Tripplett and therefore would make a marginal difference anyway.

[HHURRICANE]

I would flip out if we waste our first rounder on a TE. We have a ton of other more pressing needs. :mad:

Or another CB!!

[Michael82]

Or another CB!!
We can get a CB in the 3rd or 4th round, if we don't get one in FA. :up:

[SABURZFAN]

Damn, so we spend all that money on fixing the offensive line and then could end up losing our 2 star linebackers and our #1 cornerback, plus our #1 running back. And they don't seem to have much money to fill all that. WTF! :mad:



look at it as an excuse for the losman lovers. :up:

[HHURRICANE]

look at it as an excuse for the losman lovers. :up:

I'll give you this much. Without a legit starter at RB he'll have his work cut out for him.

[justasportsfan]

look at it as an excuse for the losman lovers. :up: Viva la raza !!!!

[Yasgur's Farm]

look at it as an excuse for the losman lovers. :up:Ohhh... THe Sab is spooning agian. Just stirring things up.

[Philagape]

Ohhh... THe Sab is spooning agian. Just stirring things up.

And it's enabled by people who quote it :shakeno:

[SABURZFAN]

I'll give you this much. Without a legit starter at RB he'll have his work cut out for him.



here they come now......... :shakeno:

[kernowboy]

Losman will be just fine. Any RB we get on Day1 will be an upgrade from that whinny nonentity ... if its Leonard it will be a significant upgrade. A big No2 WR or a big receiving TE in a 2xTE set will help the offence in general though, taking pressure off Evans

[feelthepain]

What ?

If the starters are playing small while pulling down big salaries, you move them out. Backups know their role, pull down small salaries and can be effective on Special Teams.

Some starters are failing us and being replaced.

I wouldn't consider Fletch or Clements or McGahee, playing small.

[Illmatic15]

I'm not entirely sure what the panic is about.

There is still month's of free agency to go, a month before the draft. There are still players available in free agency and certain veterans will be cut who might be a decent fit here in Buffalo. Judging by who teams above us in the draft have be signing in FA, the draft will be shaken up and certainly a RB already looks to be sliding. I can see us dropping down and still getting players we are looking at. Having spend money on the OL, I can see us using a R2 on a RB like Brian Leonard ... a R1 on a LB like Willis or trading down for Posluzny. Alternatively we could look at a big receiving option and I am not sure we can discount Greg Olsen. With Leonard in the backfield we could easily go for a 2 TE set.

I could at this stage live with a draft that goes

1) Greg Olsen, TE, the big receiving option (6-6, 254lbs, 4.51)
2) Brian Leonard, RB, - a crash, bang, wallop runner (6-1, 226lbs, 4.52)
3a) Zak DeOssie, MLB - (6-4, 250lbs, 4.62)
3b) Doug Datish, OL giving us versatile cover at C, G and LT (6-4, 302lbs)
4) Tim Shaw, OLB/DE (6-1, 236lbs running a 4.49)
6) Travaris Bain, CB (6ft, 180lbs, running a 4.43)
at R7 try to trade for Anttaj Hawthorne or
7a) Damion DeRosia, DT (6ft5, 325lbs)
7b) Mike DeVito DT (6ft3, 298lbs, 4.98)

I mean we want size in middle of the LB corps - DeOssie is obviously intelligent enough and at 6-4, 250lbs and running a 4.62 probably has the physical attributes as well.
We get height at receiver, a grinder at RB, our LBs, cover in the OL, a CB and a DT or two to develop

And with a extra R3 pick in 2008 we can look at a DT, DE, or even RB (moving Leonard to FB)


I hope that Does not happen!!!!!!

[kernowboy]

I hope that Does not happen!!!!!!

Why?

Look at our needs

A big No2 WR - unlikely so we get a fast big receiving TE and do a 2 TE set
A RB - Lynch scares me, anywhere between the top 10 and the low 20s plus a poor combine, Leonard is a good receiver, blocker with decent speed and can grind the yards between the tackles
LB - deOssie is on the climb and has the size and athleticism for MLB, Shaw is a good OLB with lots of speed and sufficient size

Please remember the top FAs this year at LB - Briggs, Thomas, June - were drafted in the 3rd, 6th and 6th rounds respectively

CB - assuming Youboty comes come, we still need CB depth. Bain is one of the bigger CBs running a sub 4.5
OL - not so much of a need but we will still need to eventually get larger at Center, Datish can cover all line positions

What we've missed is a DT ... Williams needs to bulk up but hopefully Mccargo will be better with a year in the system, and we can always look at maybe Anthony Adams to rotate with Kyle.

The risk of this years draft is overpaying in certain positions because of team needs and poor candidates

My draft has given the deep a big receiver, a decent RB, two LBs who will defintely become starters somewhere, a CB with loads of upside and OL who can take over from Fowler at centre and be plugged in anywhere if injuries occur

And you don't want this to happen?

[HHURRICANE]

here they come now......... :shakeno:

That's pretty funny but that's not where I was going with that. JP needs to get better. If he goes backwards I will be the first to ask for his head. He was our best option last year and even though you don't think so, he played very well after the bye.

He's been here long enough not to get a free pass! So maybe we agree?