The problem with our draft options [Archive] - BillsZone.com

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 01:28 PM

I had high hopes following last season that we would really be able to use our 2007 draft to continue to build on a team that won 7 games... I thought (hoped at least) that with that 12th pick we'd be able to bring in a guy that could help us at a position that was ALREADY a source of weakness for this team: A couple of examples would be DT, DE or 2nd WR.

But that's not the case at all- because with the exception of a clear upgrade we've yet to do a single thing that makes any position on this football team better than it was last year. Don't fool yourself about Jason Whittle. Anybody who signs for a 40 grand bonusis just happy to still be in the NFL.. Who cares that he played for McNally with the Giants. So did Dusty Ziegler, should we give him a call?

Anyway, we've lost key players that have left via FA or trade and we've done absolute squat at this point to replace any of them.

As a result, in my opinion anyway, instead of improving our 2006 team through the draft we're forced to draft people as replacements. Not sure if that sinks in for anybody, but it makes a huge difference.

I"m not taking anything away from any of these guys; but we now pretty much have to draft either Leon Hall, Patrick Willis or Lynch.

Because as of right now:
We've replaced Nate Clements with Ashton Youboty/Jabrari Greer
We've replaced London Fletcher for now with Keith Ellison
We've replaced McGahee with .. nobody. We only have Shaud Williams under contract. matter of fact, we don't even have a fullback.

The point i'm trying to make, and im sure to homers failing miserably; is that if we are able to replace some of these keys guys through FA now, then come draft day we could afford to use that pick on say a Bowe or Jarrett as a legit #2 WR for Evans---- Or a Jamaal Anderson or Charles Johnson at DE-- Or Okoye or Branch at DT. All positions that we already were weak at last year.

But because we've lost key players and have squat to take their place, we pretty much have no choice but to try and compensate through the draft.
That's not bettering the team. That's just getting younger, which means even more time before we can realistically overtake a very strong NE team.

Jeff1220

03-12-2007, 01:38 PM

Because as of right now:
We've replaced London Fletcher for now with Keith Ellison

Just to clearify this part, A. Crowell has replaced London Fletcher. Ellison has replaced Crowell. Seems small on the surface, but is actually a pretty big difference.
And, oh yeah, we won't have a complete final roster determined until, I think, July. So, while I am not very confident going into the season with the roster the way it is right now, I'll hold off on worrying about it until after the draft at the soonest.

:homer:

camelcowboy

03-12-2007, 01:49 PM

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 01:50 PM

Regardless of position..

Its Fletcher is out, and for now Ellison is in.. That's not improvement.. That's yet another downgrade.

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 01:52 PM

I agree a team rebuilding shouldn't have to replace all these position players, it should be upgrading them. I believe they should have used Walkers money to address other spots in Free agency. Corner, LB, but ill reserve my opinion till i see what the plan is.
Thank you.. Im not doubting Marv and Modrak's ability to draft.

My point the entire time is by doing nothing in FA to find good players to try and compensate for losses, it prevents us from using quality draft picks to help out positions that were already weak last year.

Even before we lost Clements, Fletcher and traded McGahee. We had no DT that knows what a backfield looks like, nor a WR who can get open more than 20% of the time, not a good thing considering Evans is going to get double teamed 99% of the time next season.

A guy like Jarrett or Bowe would've changed that.. Not Peerless Price or Josh Reed. But unless we start getting a lot more active before the draft, someone like them isn't even a viable option.

HAMMER

03-12-2007, 02:22 PM

Thank you.. Im not doubting Marv and Modrak's ability to draft.

My point the entire time is by doing nothing in FA to find good players to try and compensate for losses, it prevents us from using quality draft picks to help out positions that were already weak last year.

Even before we lost Clements, Fletcher and traded McGahee. We had no DT that knows what a backfield looks like, nor a WR who can get open more than 20% of the time, not a good thing considering Evans is going to get double teamed 99% of the time next season.

A guy like Jarrett or Bowe would've changed that.. Not Peerless Price or Josh Reed. But unless we start getting a lot more active before the draft, someone like them isn't even a viable option.

What FA's do you propose we bring in to solve the problems you constantly hammer on?

Mudflap1

03-12-2007, 02:33 PM

Dude... it's early.

I cannot fault the Bills for choosing not to spend their entire cap and more on paying Nate Clements the highest paying contract for a defensive player in NFL history (to this point). Fletcher is 32 and is not the protypical MLB for this defense. Willis McGahee is not a team player and is an underachiever. If the Bills paid top dollar for all of these players, this team really would've sucked for years to come because the cap would have been tied up for years.

Secondly, there aren't that many players in free agency that would've been that much of an upgrade. Sure, there's a few, but they get contracts that are so overinflated as to what their worth is, it's hard to justify taking those players.

There is still time to sign some guys for depth. There have been upgrades made to the offensive line. I'm sure the draft will be interesting. It's not fair to assess what the front office has done yet one way or another until at least after the draft.

I'm optimistic Youboty will be a good Cover 2 corner in time. Maybe not right off the bat this year, but obviously Jauron, Fewell, etc. think enough of him that they are willing to have him in the mix in a big way this year. In fact, there is a good argument that Youboty would've been a 1st round pick in this year's draft. If that was the case, we'd all be saluting Marv. and Co. So let's see what this guy's got.

As for LB, I'm not convinced the Bills are done addressing this. Cato June is still sitting out there, as our plenty of good prospects in the draft. Let's see what happens. Spikes, Ellison, and Crowell aren't a terrible alternative though. How many times have you seen 6th (?) round pick rookie linebackers step in and be solid right away?

On RB, Thomas is a decent back. Maybe the Bills will make a trade for someone else, who knows? I'm not all gung-ho about Lynch. He might be good, but there are plenty of backs in the draft, maybe a guy like Kenny Irons falls into our laps? Remember, Thurman Thomas and Emmitt Smith were not first round picks. We don't have to go all or nothing on Lynch or Peterson.

So just relax and see what happens. Again, it's early.

Jon

HAMMER

03-12-2007, 02:36 PM

Great post Mud, great post.

Don't Panic

03-12-2007, 02:40 PM

We've replaced Nate Clements with Ashton Youboty/Jabrari Greer
We've replaced London Fletcher for now with Keith Ellison
We've replaced McGahee with .. nobody. We only have Shaud Williams under contract. matter of fact, we don't even have a fullback.

The point i'm trying to make, and im sure to homers failing miserably; is that if we are able to replace some of these keys guys through FA now, then come draft day we could afford to use that pick on say a Bowe or Jarrett as a legit #2 WR for Evans---- Or a Jamaal Anderson or Charles Johnson at DE-- Or Okoye or Branch at DT. All positions that we already were weak at last year.

Youboty for Clements is deceiving... Clemets was unneccesary with the defense we run. You know this as well as anybody...

The Fletcher loss is a legit concern. I'm cool with the fact that he didn't fit what we were trying to do, but we still need another quality LB if we are going to field a corp that in any way was as good as last years. That makes this priority 1 IMO.

I truly believe that RB will work itself out. Its understandable to look at the RB spot in March and say, "Holy ****!!" However, I really think that with all the backs out there something can be worked to fill this void before training camp, whether it be through FA, the draft, or through a trade.

I would love to get a #2 WR with our 1st round pick, but I don't think that would've happened with or without these losses. I think OBD is OK with Price as the #2, Reed as the #3 and Parrish as a slot #4. That may scare many, but I think they're going to go into camp with that mentality.

The one guy we will have to consider passing on that we wouldn't have had to have passed on before is Okoye. If he truly does develop into a beast, it will suck to think we could've had him but decided instead to fill a spot that was weakened by FA. I'm with you there. That's why I still dream of getting Briggs in here (which most likely means Spikes is gone) and teaming Ellison with a day one pick. If that small miracle were to happen, we can still go BPA with the #12 pick and we will be in great shape come opening day. NE shape? Maybe not just yet, but not far off... especially if Losman has a ncie jump in production.

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 02:43 PM

What FA's do you propose we bring in to solve the problems you constantly hammer on?
Considering we havent brought in a single free agent on the defensive side of the ball in for a visit forget a contract offer; anyone would be a good start.

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 02:46 PM

Youboty for Clements is deceiving... Clemets was unneccesary with the defense we run. You know this as well as anybody...

The Fletcher loss is a legit concern. I'm cool with the fact that he didn't fit what we were trying to do, but we still need another quality LB if we are going to field a corp that in any way was as good as last years. That makes this priority 1 IMO.

I truly believe that RB will work itself out. Its understandable to look at the RB spot in March and say, "Holy ****!!" However, I really think that with all the backs out there something can be worked to fill this void before training camp, whether it be through FA, the draft, or through a trade.

I would love to get a #2 WR with our 1st round pick, but I don't think that would've happened with or without these losses. I think OBD is OK with Price as the #2, Reed as the #3 and Parrish as a slot #4. That may scare many, but I think they're going to go into camp with that mentality.

The one guy we will have to consider passing on that we wouldn't have had to have passed on before is Okoye. If he truly does develop into a beast, it will suck to think we could've had him but decided instead to fill a spot that was weakened by FA. I'm with you there. That's why I still dream of getting Briggs in here (which most likely means Spikes is gone) and teaming Ellison with a day one pick. If that small miracle were to happen, we can still go BPA with the #12 pick and we will be in great shape come opening day. NE shape? Maybe not just yet, but not far off... especially if Losman has a ncie jump in production.
I wouldnt have resigned Clements either, and I never blamed Buffalo for that.

I also don't expect to look up at a depth chart and see a guy (Youboty) who was active for all of two games to be the current starter, with a guy who had to see a shrink last season he got beat so bad (McGee) as our #1.. And umm Jabari Greer as our nickel back.

Dont worry though, we can just draft a new CB on day one. I hope we end up with about 7 day one picks though, becuase we need a better LB, RB, DT and WR as well on day one-- not to mention we dont even have a fullback on the team and our TE is a straight up scrub

Michael82

03-12-2007, 02:49 PM

BTW....Kiwaukee Thomas is next! He'll be a Bill by the end of the week, IMO.

Saratoga Slim

03-12-2007, 02:58 PM

Considering we havent brought in a single free agent on the defensive side of the ball in for a visit forget a contract offer; anyone would be a good start.

We'll sign a vet or two still. If you look around a good share of the mid-range FAs are still out there. For instance, I don't see how we'll possibly go into the draft without signing at least one FA cornerback. They may be content to let Youboty start, but there's no way they'll go into the season with McGee, Youboty and Greer as the only veteran cornerbacks on the roster--considering Youboty is barely a veteran and Greer is nothing more than a depth player.

Its only 12 days into free agency. The initial flurry of high-demand player signings is over, but that doesn't mean we aren't still looking for help.

HAMMER

03-12-2007, 03:40 PM

Considering we havent brought in a single free agent on the defensive side of the ball in for a visit forget a contract offer; anyone would be a good start.

If you don't have a realistic wish list then stop complaining, please. Offer solutions, not complaints.

justasportsfan

03-12-2007, 03:41 PM

And, oh yeah, we won't have a complete final roster determined until, I think, July. someone needs to get that in Pat's head before he jumps in niagara falls.

On second thought. . Shsh

patmoran2006

03-12-2007, 03:45 PM

someone needs to get that in Pat's head before he jumps in niagara falls.

On second thought. . Shsh
There's my stalker....

We dont sign Camp Fodder on July 1st, because marv has already perfected the craft of resigning and brining in new fodder in February/March

madness

03-12-2007, 03:56 PM

Regardless of position..

Its Fletcher is out, and for now Ellison is in.. That's not improvement.. That's yet another downgrade.

Technically if you want to go by end of last season like you always do... it's Fletcher out, Crowell in. That is yet another upgrade.

03-12-2007, 04:30 PM

Pat,

I get where you are coming from, but I don't think you give enough credit to the fact that we could have a lot of young players step up and improve their game, which in turn improves the team. Guys like Whitner, Simpson, Ellison, McCargo, and Williams are only going to get better. Not to mention guys like Losman, Evans, Peters, and Crowell could really come into their own.

I get that we lost some key people on D, but it's not like we're a 7 win team where everyone has peaked, so we can't possibly do better then 7 wins now without some veteran additions.

Michael82

03-13-2007, 11:27 AM

BTW....Kiwaukee Thomas is next! He'll be a Bill by the end of the week, IMO.
BUMP! Looks like I was right. I also look for some free agent LBs to come to Buffalo soon and maybe another FA CB for visits. :up:

madness

03-13-2007, 02:55 PM

BUMP! Looks like I was right. I also look for some free agent LBs to come to Buffalo soon and maybe another FA CB for visits. :up:

Horn tooter. :D

OpIv37

03-13-2007, 02:59 PM

Technically if you want to go by end of last season like you always do... it's Fletcher out, Crowell in. That is yet another upgrade.

But wait, I thought Crowell was Posey's replacement- we saw how well that worked out :rolleyes:.

Ok, trying to be analytical rather than just critical: Ellison is still green. He didn't play bad last year but he didn't play great either. Two years later, TKO's recovery is still in question. I have no problem with Crowell, but given that our other two starting LB's have big question marks, I think it would be stupid to go into the season without some kind of replacement for Fletcher.

madness

03-13-2007, 03:03 PM

But wait, I thought Crowell was Posey's replacement- we saw how well that worked out :rolleyes:.

:huh:

OpIv37

03-13-2007, 03:32 PM

:huh:

when we cut Posey last year, I kept saying that if we cut a starter, we need to replace him. justa and WillisMcNasty kept insisting that Crowell was Posey's replacement, which didn't make sense to me since Spikes was still hurting and we needed Crowell to cover his spot. Anyway, either Crowell replaced Posey and we haven't replaced Fletcher or Crowell replaces Fletcher and we still haven't replaced Posey- I don't care how you do the math- we're still short a starting LB.

madness

03-13-2007, 03:52 PM

when we cut Posey last year, I kept saying that if we cut a starter, we need to replace him. justa and WillisMcNasty kept insisting that Crowell was Posey's replacement, which didn't make sense to me since Spikes was still hurting and we needed Crowell to cover his spot. Anyway, either Crowell replaced Posey and we haven't replaced Fletcher or Crowell replaces Fletcher and we still haven't replaced Posey- I don't care how you do the math- we're still short a starting LB.

I'll agree due to the fact of TKO's uncertainity and as of right now we have no one to push Ellison for the spot. This draft has some pretty talented LB's that a bunch of teams think could step right in and start so we could possibly go in that direction. Which leads to the question, are there any vet FA's worth investing in?

OpIv37

03-13-2007, 03:55 PM

I'll agree due to the fact of TKO's uncertainity and as of right now we have no one to push Ellison for the spot. This draft has some pretty talented LB's that a bunch of teams think could step right in and start so we could possibly go in that direction. Which leads to the question, are there any vet FA's worth investing in?

I honestly don't know- the only one I really know if is Cato June, who will be expensive and must have done something because no one is showing interest in him.

feldspar

03-13-2007, 05:12 PM

I'm waiting to see what happens. To me, that's better than trying to impose my will on the entire process of building a team...that's impossible. Guess what? None of us know what the plan is. I just have faith that there is a plan. It's a faith similar to that of the Christians.

jpdex12

03-13-2007, 06:41 PM

Considering we havent brought in a single free agent on the defensive side of the ball in for a visit forget a contract offer; anyone would be a good start.

If you're being sarcastic that's one thing but we have already brought in a safety FA and it was just a look. It would help to know some facts before you critisize the team. What's the problem with waiting to see how things pan out...say like in early October! Did you critisize Marv and Modrak's draft last year as well? I hope not because it turned out to be quite impressive after we let things play out.

jpdex12

03-13-2007, 06:42 PM

someone needs to get that in Pat's head before he jumps in niagara falls.

On second thought. . Shsh

I've got a nice inner tube that I'd gladly donate and ship over night express to him!

Mr. Pink

03-13-2007, 06:43 PM

oh YaY we brought a free agent safety who we have ZERO use for in for a look-see....FUN TIMES!

I think Pat Moran means defensive free agents that might actually be of use to this team.

patmoran2006

03-13-2007, 06:43 PM

patmoran2006

03-13-2007, 06:45 PM

lol nobody even knows who that "safety FA' was unless you go back and look it up..

all I know is he is white, and he is a "special teamer"

jpdex12

03-13-2007, 06:51 PM

lol nobody even knows who that "safety FA' was unless you go back and look it up..

all I know is he is white, and he is a "special teamer"

Racist?

patmoran2006

03-13-2007, 06:53 PM

Was that a racist comment? I said all I know is he is white, your defending that we brought in a FA and he's so bad you dont even know what his name is either until you go do some research.

jpdex12

03-13-2007, 06:53 PM

Actually I was fairly supportive of our draft last year while pretty much everyone else bashed it and I stuck up for the Bills

Though I think the people that bashed it were right; because this would be a much stronger and better football team had they taken Ngata at 8 and then Mangold at 26; both sides of the line would now have their anchor.

I was scratching my head, but I figured they knew something that we didn't..just like always.

I's easy to critisize things that have happened in the past but hard to predict the future. Why don't you lay out the Bill's draft plans for this year as if you were the GM (nothing new-roll eyes) and what they should do and then next spring we'll critique you?

jpdex12

03-13-2007, 06:56 PM

Was that a racist comment? I said all I know is he is white, your defending that we brought in a FA and he's so bad you dont even know what his name is either until you go do some research.

I'm not going to waste my time either because I don't care and we aren't signing him anyway. I'm just bustin yer balls and it's working!
You just need to go pour yourself a big glass of Crown Royal on the rocks and sip on it for 10 minutes and tell yourself that everything will be alright because it will. You wait and see.

patmoran2006

03-13-2007, 06:56 PM

First you gotta see if they sign another FA that actually matters, not a 8th string white safety/special teamer.

IE- If they were to sign Ian Scott, then they obviously dont go DT early.
If they were to sign Cato June, they dont go LB right off the bat.

It depends on if we intend on signing a starter.. Since Im going to go on a limb and say Wilson padlocked the vault again, the answer is probably no.

In that case, I WOULD take Lynch with the 12th pick.. But the Bills will take Patrick Willis with the pick.

patmoran2006

03-13-2007, 06:58 PM

I'm not going to waste my time either because I don't care and we aren't signing him anyway. I'm just bustin yer balls and it's working!
You just need to go pour yourself a big glass of Crown Royal on the rocks and sip on it for 10 minutes and tell yourself that everything will be alright because it will. You wait and see.
Crown rules, and I'll be needing plenty of it on draft day I am thinking.

I am going to the draft day party wherever BZ has it, and I swear to God if we draft someone I dont like (Leon hall or another clown) Im going to chop block JustaSportsfan right then and there.

Mr. Pink

03-13-2007, 07:00 PM

Crown rules, and I'll be needing plenty of it on draft day I am thinking.

I am going to the draft day party wherever BZ has it, and I swear to God if we draft someone I dont like (Leon hall or another clown) Im going to chop block JustaSportsfan right then and there.

Count me on the draft day party that BZ holds in this circumstance, I gotta see this. lol

DraftBoy

03-13-2007, 07:01 PM

Actually I was fairly supportive of our draft last year while pretty much everyone else bashed it and I stuck up for the Bills

Though I think the people that bashed it were right; because this would be a much stronger and better football team had they taken Ngata at 8 and then Mangold at 26; both sides of the line would now have their anchor.

Ngata wouldnt of been half as successful here as he was in Baltimore. He doesnt fit our scheme, and we dont have the same kind of personell to surround him with. To assume this team would of been better is quite short sighted of you.